A Pilot Who Wouldn't Land (United Airlines Flight 173) - DISASTER BREAKDOWN
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2022
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On one of the last evenings of 1978, on December 28th, Disaster Struck in Portland Oregon. A Plane on a cross country trip from New York, was expected to land in Portland but never arrived. The plane was stuck in the air unable to land and today we’ll discuss why. The story of United Airlines Flight 173 is rather confusing. But it’s a story synonymous with pilot fatigue and how the focus on just one aspect of their situation created a far deadlier one that went undiagnosed.
If you found this video to be interesting, be sure to subscribe as there is a new video every Saturday. This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. Consider joining here from £1 per month: www.patreon.com/DisasterBreakdown
😅😅😅 I love you too much and I 😂❤❤😮
Hey CH
Can you do a Andes survivors plane crash video
90 percent of the world’s population either forgot or was to young not to remember
I met 3 of the survivors
Hello disaster breakdown, are you still going to make a shipping accident
Even as layman, that captain was a moron to be honest. I understand if it's a matter of minutes to decide. He had over an hour to think, he was told the fuel is almost gone and he still didn't make a decision. He was waiting for magic or what? Even with the nerves, tension and apprehension it's better to make an emergency landing than fall out of the bloody sky! It's not even like everyone forgot about the fuel, he knew the situation.
I know this is a bit of a silly thing to say, as it's a tragedy regardless, but the fact that the flight engineer was one of the fatalities, despite being right all along, hit particularly hard here
I thought same exact thing :(
Being right doesn't matter. Getting people to listen when you're right is what makes a difference.
The hard part is knowing when you're right
YES
The captain dying would at least have represented some cosmic justice.
My jaw actually dropped and I audibly gasped. Just so unfair.
"We're out of fuel!"
"Ok, can you give me 15 minutes to check the landing gear one more time?"
That infuriated me too! There is no excuse for this, even under stress. He went and killed 10 people!
yeah it wasn't an 'error' he was a coward plain and simple and his COWARDICE doomed ten people aned then the subhuman swine just got to oink away and retire... disgusting
Insane. I half-expected "after the 4th engine flamed out, the Captain again turned his attention to the landing gear..."
Caught myself expecting the same comment- amazing tunnel vision
🤧🤧🤣
Yeah. It's like that old joke: one engine flames out, and the captain says on the P.A. "nothing to worry about ladies and gentlemen,, we'll just be a few minutes late". Then another one flames out, and he says "still nothing to worry about folks, that's why there's four of them, but now we will be half an hour late". Then a third one flames out, and he says "Well, this is certainly unusual but don't worry everyone, the plane can fly one one engine but now we will be an hour late". Finally the fourth one flames out and an old man in economy says "Oh goddamn it, now we're going to be up here all night!"
Didn't happen, but I can imagine that the pilot continued to thoroughly investigate the landing gear gremlins after the crash landing.
"Sir the 4th engine is about to flame out" "bubububut the landing gear !" In my opinion, it's also a great way to show what terrible things "cockpit autority" can make people do. Just like in the Tennerife Disaster, even tho it was obvious to everybody in the cockpit that the captain was doing something very bad, nobody insisted on it nor questionned is autority.
It was the captain's fault. The flight engineer told him to stop stalling and to make an emergency landing. Obviously we're all humans and make mistakes, but that's why there are multiple people flying the plane. I'm glad the culture has changed so that people in the cockpit are more likely to override someone else's mistake. RIP to those 10 beautiful souls.
He would rather die than get pushy with the captain?
@@JerseyLynne in those days he would have had no authority to do so. Even giving pointed suggestions was pushing it. The captain was considered to be the final authority on everything to do with the flight. This accident led directly to United adopting crew resource management (CRM) training for its flight crews, something that is standard across the industry today.
OFF PLANE MONITOR FOR TAKE OFF LANDING.
@@JerseyLynne MANY DIE FOR THAT VERY REASON
@@ronniewall492 What exactly would this monitoring achieve that radar, TCAS, flight controllers, etc. does not already do? It is still the pilots in the planes who are flying and making decisions.
This one is the best example of tunnel-vision ever, along with Eastern Flight 401 the "landing gear lightbulb" crash in Everglades. Horrifying how the captain didnt pay attention to the fuel situation
Totally agree and a lack of crew resource management.
I am not a pilot, but an old old retired sea captain.
I always told my first officers to double check me when I put a course out in the charts or gave instructions for the approach of harbor or what ever.
They were told that I am NOT infallible and that I rather get corrected than risk wrecking the ship.
Ask questions if in doubt, do NOT just follow my orders.
Very sad the flight engineer was one of the casualties, he was the most professional in the cockpit that night.
We use this case study as motivation for the use of CRM in EMS.
What's even more horrifying Captain to this day still maintains he had fuel
THE EVERGLADES CRASH OVER BURNT OUT LIGHT BULB
Captain McBroom went to a "survivors reunion" every year it was held until he eventually passed away many years later. He was plagued with guilt for the rest of his life, even if the CFIT went much better than it should have. No matter how many times I watch a program about this crash, I always find myself shouting at the screen "FUEL!" and "land the damn plane!". Even though CRM was not in place yet, this should have never happened. The rest of the crew should have been much more proactive about the fuel situation, since that is why there were three crew in the cockpit to begin with. It took a major study by NASA before CRM was finally introduced and it has made flying much safer.
I think it had a lot to do with the culture at the time, where Co-pilots and Engineers felt afraid to correct a Captain, in fear of intimidation or reprimand, so they remain quiet, and not to challenge the Captain or take control of aircraft. Today, it's different thanks to CRM, where it's not a "one man show" but a collective approach, through proper communication for a favorable outcome.
I know the feeling. I kept saying out loud, "The fuel is low! Can we please just turn back to the airport and at least try landing already?"
@@robertmcghintheorca49 yeah. The Captain was too fixated on the landing gear and lost situational awareness, that he was running low on fuel, although the Co-Pilot, and the Engineer was trying to tell him, not forcefully, until all engines flamed out due to lack of fuel, then he elected to try landing, which was too late. What he should have done if the landing light didn't illuminate was to first check that the landing gear pin on the wing was in the up position, then should have done a fly by the Tower and asked them to confirm if all gears are down. Once that was confirmed, dump some fuel if needed, ask ATC to have all emergency services.on standby and then land the blasted plane. If the gears collapsed upon landing, then deal with the situation that is at hand, at least it is on the ground and possibly, have survivors in the end. You can't solve the gear issue in the air and all you need to know is that the gears are in the down position.
@@jamesy29 i would fly with you !!
@@jamesy29 If dumping fuel isn't possible -- and over a residential area, it might not be -- then staying in the air to burn some off makes sense. Just not ALL of it like this.
Absolutely cannot believe how blinded the captain was to the plane running out of fuel, even to the point of trying to check on other things AGAIN as the plane was close to crash landing. Horrifying
I have heard this type of thing happens a lot. That is why there are three people in the cockpit working together. If the pilot is facing an issue, he needs to trust his copilot and his flight engineer.
@@Lady.B0420 There are no more flight engineer roles.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver makes you wonder how many crashes might have been avoided had there been an F/E looking after engines, fuel and other vital factors...especially in the era when crew resource management became the rule.
@@RatPfink66 Now we talk about single-pilot jets.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver god forbid.
In remembrance to those lost:
Flight Engineer Forrest Ervin Mendenhall, 41
Flight Attendant Joan Newton Wheeler, 36
Gwen Dawn Griffith, 13
Raymond E. Waetjen, 64
Gabor Andor
Rosina Andor
Gabriella Andor, 2
Rosina Andor, 1
Jasna Peponik
Anna Peponik, 6 months
Wow. Three infants and a child were killed, including an entire family. Unacceptable loss for dumb behavior.
The Andor's 3rd daughter, Elizabeth, survived. She lost both of her parents and her 2 younger sisters in the crash.
@@shannawallace7855😢😢😢That's horrific. I'm surprised these tragedies weren't mentioned.
So sad too see, what appears to be one whole family dying "the Arbors", and the number of infants 3 , children +1 among the 10 people who lost their lives in the tragedy.
My Brother-n-law's Mother was on that flight. Right after the crash she walked up to the nearest Payphone and called her husband. Saying "You wouldn't believe what just happened".. True story.
I believe you.
They didn't have cellphones back then.
So your mother in law ....
@@grmpEqweer hence the word payphone 🤔
Bless her always stephanie gabbard
"Brother-n-law's Mother" or as it's normally known: mother-in-law
The flight engineer did not deserve to go out like that💔
I flew for United, this captain was known as "No Fuel McBroom". We watched this film in initial and recurrent training as an example of really poor CRM and a few other key issues. I flew the "Stretch 8 " a few times in 1986 and absolutely hated. Especially the one we acquired from ANA. Another great video. Thanks Chloe.
Curious to hear your beef with the old 8.
Why did you hate it; the steam gauges? Something else? Do tell!
Tell us why you hate that!
@@jaybee9269 you had to pull on a rope to start each of the engines.
@@adotintheshark4848 >> OK, I take your point!
I worked with a guy like that before. You see the problem before he does but there's nothing you can do except wait for disaster to unfold.
You could pretend that you're going for a toilet break then you grab a fire extinguisher and hit him over the head with it 🤔
The worst part is that people like this usually don’t learn from the mistake. It’s a matter of thinking they can do it better than anyone else.
I can only imagine what the first officer and flight engineer must have felt as the captain's refusal to land dragged on with no end in sight, even as fuel became critical. "Why won't he land? What doesn't he understand? We're going to crash! How can he not see this?"
I'm certainly no expert on aviation, especially in the older days, but as far as I know, if a first officer believes his captain to be making a serious life threatening mistake and doesn't correct, he has the right and obligation to relieve him of command. I'm not sure if that's true in aviation or especially was back then, but it's like that for a reason in other areas. If a captain has a loss of situational awareness or is suicidal (I'm not saying this one was suicidal, but just that it can happen), someone else needs to take command.
@@kenmore01 That is true now with modern CRM training but back then you were supposed to defer to the pilot and there were no rules about how/if to take over if the pilot was incompetent/distracted etc.
I don’t care how much more respectful they were to the senior officer normally, and I wish everybody was still more like that today in general… but when you’re talking about all dying in a second or speaking, harshly to your supervisor, or whatever your senior member of your crew/the captain- I’m sorry I would have to speak up like maybe loud enough to get him out of his zone. Why would they just wait that long knowing that they need a certain amount of miles to be covered to get to the airport or to find a decent place to land, at least. So sad.
McBroom was a broken man after this incident. He died in 2004 at the age of 77. It’s ridiculous how lack of awareness he had.
I was dark and ready to snow. The plane missed a new apartment com
Due to a combination of the captain's actions and the suspenseful narration..... this had to be one of the most infuriating stories you've shared on this channel!
Seriously! I kept biting the inside of my cheeks due to how anxiety inducing this case was. RIP the flight engineer, who was right all along :(
@@potat19 I was gonna start messing with my hair, and pulling some out cos this case was anxiety inducing also. Thankfully, CRM (crew resource management, ie. flight deck communication) is better nowadays in 2023.
I was yelling at the screen too! What the hell was the matter with that captain?
This plane crashed less than a block away from my father and mother-in-laws house. We looked at the wreck, and amazingly the plane crashed between rows of houses, not causing much damage. They had to cut the wreck apart to remove it, and it took quite a while.
This is similar to Eastern 401 which crashed when the entire flight deck crew was focusing on a burnt out landing gear indicator light and didn’t notice the plane was losing altitude.
This incident frustrates me so much. The captain wasn’t task saturated and had a lot of time to recover from the surprise. The other crew told him multiple times about the fuel. The plane didn’t break in a way to cause the accident. Ugh
It seems to me, that other then the Captain, the crews seemed to be dangerously afraid to challenge the Captains
Then the captain was god. Now, not so much, thanks to this and another United incident. Sad.
Why would the captain be afraid to challenge himself? 😂 “other than the captain,” 😂 I know you just phrased it funny. but it took me a second- like “Am I missing something?”
No clue why I do this to myself but every time I fly I binge on these videos while I wait at the airport.
To be honest despite watching all these videos my fear of flying has not increased, rather my understanding. But obsessively learning about accidents it helps us understand how planes do work. I’m sure most people would disagree but I still understand that these events are extremely rare and every time an accident does happen people learn more ways to make the plane safer. Just my 2 cents. Have a wonderful flight!
One time I was flying out of LAX and I stopped in the airport bookstore before boarding. They had this table right at the entrance with a sign showcasing books that were “employees top picks.” There I picked up a book titled “The Black Box: Cockpit Voice Recorder Accounts Of In Flight Accidents.” I read that whole book during my flight!
We have used the transcript of the cockpit voice recording from this flight to teach patient safety in health care. We get teams to role play each member of the flight crew. They quickly learn the importance of CRM in critical situations, including the ICU and the operating theatre.
This one was super intriguing! It's mind blowing how the pilot's lack of situational awareness combined with CRM led to this crash. You've done a wonderful job explaining everything clearly, as always! Thank you for your hard work.
My ass lacks of situational awareness. When you have three peopel telling you theres no fuel, when you have four indicators saying you have no fuel, when the engines start flaming out because of no fuwl and you havent realised yet that theres no fuel and you keep on fluffing around, you are not experiencing lack of sutuational awareness; you are just a dangerous assho
I learned about this accident in business school. It was THE accident that made airlines rethink culture, and practically reinvented CRM.
@@tlw98683 Nice! Thanks for sharing that.
A good college friend of mine was on this airplane for the New York to Denver leg of the flight. He got off at Stapleton International Airport in Denver to take another flight to Salt Lake City where we were attending college. However, the ground crew didn't remove his luggage from UA 173 and transfer it to his next flight. We always talked about how lucky he was that the only thing he lost was his luggage. Thanks for making this video, this crash and why it happened was always of particular interest to me.
This captain is 100% liable for this accident, it makes me so mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This one hit really hard and he should have been prosecuted for being so negligent!!!!!!!! He was told multiple times about the fuel!!!!
💯 Sane here. Pisses me off
This was an episode on Air Disasters called "Focused on Failure".
I find it incredulous that such an experienced pilot could be so focused on one minor problem. I know that in this era the Captain had a godlike aura in a cockpit, but simply from a survivable point of view, i felt the First officer and Flight Engineer should have been much more forcible.
Potential landing gear failure is absolutely not a minor problem, if landing gear collapses under landing the plane can break apart and burst into flame. However a possible crash landing is better than a certain crash landing right?
With a name like Malburn McBroom, he was bound for notoriety somehow...
This story is absolutely insane. I'm so grateful to live in a post CRM Era of flying.
The quality of research, detailed information and top-notch animation in your videos is outstanding. You deserve much more subscribers, and I believe that the 100k milestone is just the beginning for your channel. Always delighted to see new uploads, excellent work!
This happened not too far from where I used to live. People still talk about it. The captain passed away in 2004 from cancer he was really affected by the way it was handled on his part, and 10 people died because of the situational awareness that was not there
I was wondering if you'd done this one! I was born near Portland in March 1979. During Christmas 1978 my parents went to TN to visit my maternal grandparents. This flight was supposed to have been their connecting flight back to Portland, but they decided to stay in TN for an extra day.
I've heard about this crash from several different sources - I suppose it's outlandish and tragic enough that it's a "popular" crash to cover for shows/podcasts/blogs/etc.
I think it's tragic - I also heard that because the plane's holding pattern was at relatively low altitude, it burned up fuel faster than if it had been cruising for the same amount of time. But an experienced pilot should know that. Especially with crew continually telling him the levels.
I have ADHD, and while I like the idea of taking flying lessons, I would *never* want to be a commercial pilot. I'm way too familiar with hyperfocus (or conversely, not being able to focus at all and missing/forgetting things), and I know my brain is just not reliable enough to do this sort of job safely. McBroom hyperfocused on the gear issue, and he was still thinking in terms of "potentially unsafe landing vs safe landing if I spend a few more minutes solving this problem" - not realizing it was more like "potentially unsafe landing due to the gear issue, vs VERY UNSAFE crash landing after we run out of gas!"
As for the crew - it's so hard to imagine being in that position and NOT speaking up forcefully, but anothee piece of context is in the 70s, a lot of pilots were former military, so respecting the hierarchy had been trained into them their entire careers (that's part of why there were so many CRM issues with different airlines and crews at the time). Similar CRM issues have happened more recently in South Korea and other places, where there's mandatory military service, many pilots come from military careers, and the general culture itself is extremely hierarchical. It sounds insane to die instead of speaking up - but I suppose in the army, that's often how you're trained.
Thanks for the video DB! This was definitely, sadly, one for the history books.
Videos like these still make me wonder why the heck no one ever bothers to add little cameras at these places of critical importance. Sth for the wings overlooking the engines and flaps, landing gear and rudder.
So many incidents already where just having a visual on these things would have sped up trouble shooting by a lot, and I dou t it takes that much wiring to hook knob cameras to the side with a button in the flight deck to check the cameras when needed.
Beyond me why such a simple (I think) thing isn't included in modern planes.
Anyhow, another great video! Thanks a lot! Am learning a lot from this channel. Also quite like your rail accident content. This is some high production content, so you can be proud of your work!
Its not practical. On modern widebodies, there are tiny cameras to assist taxiing, but back in the day of the dc8 the camera would be massive.
@@BobbyGeneric145 that's why I said modern day aircrafts. Of course these things get better with camera technology, but with how small and good quality camera's are today I don't see a reason as to why not, hence why I also mentioned knob cameras. Obviously when cameras were huge that isn't practical.
But it's not like engine and other gear don't occasionally run into issues anymore.
Some operators do now have cameras on their planes.
@@frost-fireflareon2305 its all about probability vs money. Once a potential event is outside a certain probability of happening, the powers that be pretty much ignore it
I like how they say he retired, he in fact was fired and actually sued to get his job back but the firing was upheld, he also tried to blame Frosty for this claiming he must have screwed up the fuel transfer.
It might be the safest way to travel but I don't have to worry about falling 30,000 feet if my Jeep runs out of fuel on the Interstate. 🤷
If nobody else drove a car except me I would feel the same way you do 😀
holding pattern isn't 30K feet, but yes the falling part is bad, they still glide without fuel so really depends how far an airport with an appropriate runway is.
It's really kind of scary when some pilots forget to fly the plane.
When this happened I was living several miles from the landing. One good thing that happened was that when the crash first hit the news, and it was indeed breaking news in Portland, a lot of people were lined up outside the local Red Cross (and they had opened) expecting there would be a great demand for blood with which to treat the injured. It turned out that it wasn't needed but a glimpse of humanity at it's best. Also, and I don't know if it was a local legend or the truth, but a prisoner was on that flight being returned to Portland, rather than taking a golden opportunity to escape he stayed and helped to evacuate and comfort the passengers, supposedly he got extra lenient treatment because of this.
Oh, and McBroom didn't retire - he was canned and had his licenses - private and commercial - pulled.
Actually that prisoner did escape, but only after he helped evacuated the passenger. His name is Kim Edward Campbell, and he was recaptured 6 months later after he tried to rob a bank.
@@tiadaid Drat! Another urban legend, one that I've believed for years, busted. Seriously, thanks for enlightening me in a gentle manner.
Captain McBroom became one of Walmarts first people greeters ever hired
we are out of lemonade
the kids cannot party
why
lemonade
From fighting in ww2 to flying jets to a Walmart greeter.. hmm life is Strange
I use your channel to fall asleep nightly. The narration is far more precise and calming than most narrators.
Thank you sir.
This crash was because of poor CRM between all 3 flight crews of the landing gear believed that the right side landing gear freefalled while the left was normal but did not display
The Captain was so distracted by the Landing Gear despite numerous warnings by the FE and FO. In addition of how long it took to prepare the Cabin was the cause of the crash (The duration of being able to be ready was a factor)
After the accident the CRM was implemented a lot in aircraft training
10 people were killed including the lead flight attendant and Flight Engineer
This is my other account but yeah this accident as Disaster Breakdown mentioned was similar to Eastern Airlines 401 crashing into the Everglades west of Miami also because of a Landing Gear Problems and was later discovered to be a burnt out bulb on the left landing gear panel and the Captain turning around and inadvertently push the yoke forward without him knowing slowly making a deadly descent into the Everglades
101 of the 176 passengers and crew were killed
Nice video!
Reminded me of a slightly similar Air Crash. That of Kalita Air 808. Pilot was fatigued and got distracted in trying to find a Strobe Light (which was unrelated to the already complicated approach maneuver). The Captain had been awake for nearly 24 hours, First Officer 19 hours and Flight Engineer for 21 hours. The Captain failed to maintain airspeed and turned late. He was fixated on locating the Light but never spotted it. Fatigue caused impaired judgement which prevented him from recovering from the stall in time. The plane crashed but the three member Crew survived with serious injuries. The Strobe Light, by the way, was turned off that day.
The other problem with that flight was wanting to notch up a landing from the "hard end" of the runway instead of coming straight in over the ocean. Boys being boys...even when they're supposed to be grown men.
Flying into Gitmo
I'm addicted to this channel... The videos are of the highest quality and very informative, congratulations DB!
Thank you for the kind words
I can understand how tunnel vision and fixation can diminish situational awareness, but this seems to be in a category of its own, especially when considering how many times the captain was reminded of the low fuel.
Loved the video. I too worked for United out of Stapleton International that very night on the ground. Wow, this brought back memories. I loved the Stretch DC 8.
Where the plane crashed was the only uninhabited block in a couple square miles. A lot of people on the ground could have been hurt or killed if this had come down almost anywhere else. Pure luck.
Pure Providence.
@@mpmattson That area now is densely populated with houses and strip malls, not to mention a freeway.
I went through a civilian commercial pilot training program at a university in the late 1980's where we studied the United Airlines CRM philosophy in an aviation safety class I was in. That class changed how I think about a lot of everyday activities as well as ego and complacency. The class had a much larger impact on my life than that excellent instructor would ever know. CRM has saved a lot of lives and careers.
Thank you for a well -told story.
Aside from knowing that the captain retired soon after the accident, none of those reports mentions anything about the liability aspect of the story.
I'd like to know what happened to that captain. Did he simply walk into happy retirement? After all, his negligence did cause the death of 10 people. He was found responsible. Doesn't that amount to Involuntary Manslaughter or something? Did he go to jail?
I understand that this question is not directly related to the crash case itself, though it's the very next question people would ask.
Amazing video! The quality of research is great.
You really are a great story teller. I kept hoping the aircraft would get to the runway just in time. Well done, keep 'em coming! 😢
I have lived in Portland for the last twelve years and this legit one of my irrational fears (definitely not helped out by a dream I had of a plane crashing downtown) and here it is playing out on CZcams in front of me. I am so relieved it wasn't worse but even 10 people is terrible. I hope their families have been able to heal some over time.
Never knew about this but I thank you for all your research, hard work, and dedication in bringing it to the world.
Truly tragic. Great content, thank you.
Wow even though this happen way before I was born it’s crazy to think this crash happened minutes away from my home. I live about 10 minutes away from the airport so I always see planes in the sky.
I know everyone’s a genius in hindsight, but I think, that were it my plane, I’d rather land with no gear than with no fuel. At least one of the options actually guarantees an on-field landing where emergency services are immediately available!
I remember this accident well. I was still in High School and was about to start taking flying lessons in order to become an airline pilot. Today, I find myself a little older than the Captain of United Flight 173 was when this accident occurred with almost as many flight hours as he had at the time of the accident and now an Airline Captain myself. In my opinion the most important thing to come out of this accident was the concept of CRM (Cockpit now Crew Resource Management) which the author of this video (Disaster Breakdown) just barely mentions at the end of this video. I believe CRM to be one of the “gems” of Aviation and a concept that can be applied to great benefit in many other fields besides commercial aviation.
I will need to disagree with the author's (corrected) assessment of what the culture is like and should be like in today's airliner flight deck. The flight deck is not a democratic "fiesta" where everybody gets to vote, and all votes carry equal weight and everybody is a “co-equal leader”. During flight operations, and other areas as well, there is a necessary accountability and responsibility hierarchy, where ultimately the Captain who is in control and responsible for the safety of the passengers, crew and everything else associated with the flight makes the final decision.
Having said that United Flight 173, and other accidents domestically (United States) and throughout the rest of the aviation world, have highlighted the need to empower all of the other crew members to speak up, advocate strongly and effectively for their opinions, plans and ideas throughout any flight's progress and especially when dealing with "abnormal" and "emergency" inflight events. As the Captain I understand that I do not always have/understand all the relevant information. Neither can I, in a vacuum, always make the best possible decisions. I fully support, believe in and try to the best of my ability to employ all the principles of CRM in each and every one of my flights. I am convinced that several people working together are able to come up with a superior solution than any one individual can working alone (I said “can” not “always will”). The change in aviation (CRM) as a result of the investigation into the causes of this accident was a tremendous step in improving flight safety.
hi, just as a heads up, DB is a woman :~)
v interesting post tho. im just a random guy with no knowledge of the industry so i always like when ppl comment with insights
@@flarithen who does the voice? I never knew DB was a women
@@forzalazio7184 she does! and ye her name is chloe
@@flarithen so not an actual woman then lol
@@forzalazio7184 Jesus christ im not doing this
Good quality vid as always from what I’ve watched so far on an interesting crash. Thanks.
Excellent presentation as always!
Top notch content.
great video, as always!
Did the captain not face any criminal charges?
Chloe thanks for another great video!!
"Why?"
"Fuel."
Then 10 lives lost. May them who perished rest in peace.
Any fire/smoke, etc seems such a terrible thing on an airplane, where all of the cabling, etc is hidden away.
It therefore surprises me that this didn't lead to an immediate emergency landing. Terrible disaster.
I'm so relieved this incident took "only" as few lives as it did. It's still incredibly sad and unnerving, but nevertheless could have turned out a lot worse, easily.
Yeah it’s amazing how the fuselage was intact even though the wings were torn off, and luckily there was no fire since it had run out of fuel.
I remember when this happened and how a year or two later the survivors got together for a kind of reunion. The pilot showed up and they treated him as if he was some kind of hero. I remember thinking... Huh?'
Hahaha "huh"!
Oh baby, you've put the age to the names! Thank you very much!! :-*
Yeah I figured it's a good touch to keep going forward.
I place the blame squarely on the entire cockpit crew. The captain was being oblivious and the first and second officers did not make sufficiently strong statements regarding the fuel situation, such as, "We're going to go empty on fuel and fall out of the sky in ten minutes. We're going to have to risk a landing."
And then what, physically fight him for the controls? The guy was obsessed with the one task he had set himself to.
I feel like there needs to be a greater emphasis on the importance of getting down if fuel is running out in pilot training.
A friend of mine lived in the apartment building the plane missed. From the kitchen window you could see several trees the wings hit.
The fact the Captain flew in the war is a warning. Alot took unnecessary risks (massaging their egos) thinking they're still in the war. There's alot of accidents down to pilots around this time taking risks whereas these days not so much.
An hour when you are traveling looks so much, but when thinking or preparing it just flies away, trouble shooting is just like having a discussion while you are stationery on the ground, it flies away soon.
I recall there being a huge culture of alcohol use in pilots (and probably crews) reported in the news, in the 80s as well. I wonder if alcohol was a factor in this as well, though it was apparently so common.
I was a child, but I remember drunken pilots, and pilots drinking in airport lounges before flights being on the news.
That probably would have come out in the investigation. Anyway there are a lot of crashes caused by flight deck crew becoming fixated on small problems and ignoring big ones, and it doesn’t require being drunk, it’s just human nature if you don’t have good CRM training.
always great being greeted by this
The pilot wasn't convinced of the safety of landing on a questionable landing gear, but he should have been completely aware of the dangers of flying without fuel.
As usual, a great video.
This is one of the most infuriating incidents I've ever seen documented. They told him and told him to no avail
Didn't want to land with landing gear but neglected no fuel forces you to land despite what you think of landing gear.
0:08
The DC-8 on the pic had 4 CFM International CFM-56 Turbofan Engines, which were installed onto the Douglas DC-8, Boeing 707, Boeing 737, and Airbus A320
At the time of this crash, I owned and flew a small plane. I lived in central Oregon and was in the middle of the ground school portion of my DC-9 type rating. The school was held at the Portland airport.
The day after the crash, I could see the wreckage and of course, the first part of the class was spent discussing what had happened.
I never met the Captain but several people in the class had flown with him. His basic way of running his cockpits was something like 'I'm the Captain, you are my assistants, never challenge me or I'll get you fired'. Thus the other 2 pilots were afraid to speak up very much.
While this attitude was common back them, he was a bit worse than most. He had a tendency to focus on one point while ignoring the big picture plus, weather reporting was not very good back then, especially upper winds. While it wasn't common, occasionally the upper winds would be less favorable than forecast and you'd need to land at an airport along the route and take on more fuel.
As noted by another person here, he had a reputation of pressing on even if there would be almost no fuel left at landing.
CRM (Crew Resource management) didn't exist back then, the captain was considered to be totally in charge. As a result of this crash, and a few other incidents, CRM was born.
The main reason the Captain retired shortly after this crash is because the FAA revoked his airman certificate. This decision was based on the opinions of crew members that flew with him plus several incidents of landing with very low fuel.
Further, according the the DC-8 operators manual and the checklists, if the pins are visibly protruding from the top of the wing, the gear is absolutely down and locked regardless of what the lights say. Basically, if the pins are up, landing is to be commenced without further delay.
Interesting info. I've heard about this crash from a few different sources, but had never heard that McBroom had a habit of running his fuel down before landing. I wonder why he was so confident about it - I wouldn't be!
Worked for Qantas and there was an old time Capt there that had that same mentality. No one wanted to fly with him. His way or no way. He used to get the first/2nd officers to update his Jeppesen manuals inflight !!
I' ve been watching DB videos for months but missed this. Another great video. FYI to all this flight is one of the mayday disaster made a docu drama about. Outside of actors screaming to show fear as the plane crashed it is excellent too. Mayday and DB cover many of the accidents. Seems the pairs I've seen support each other. Great job, Chloe. 14:58 14:58
This is extremely frustrating. Weighing out your options it boils down to - land at the airport and MAYBE the landing gear collapses but you have all the necessary emergency equipment and personnel at your disposal, or, run out of gas and crash the plane. It's mind boggling that ANYONE let alone an experienced captain would have a hard time making that decision.
100,000? Look where you are now! Nearly 200K, Chloe
I live not far from the crash site of this plane. I read that United bought the land and fenced it off. Though we haven't had a big crash like this in 50 years, the door plug blowing out on the recent Alaska Airlines flight on the news definitely had me thinking about this, seeing as I live right underneath one of the major flight paths. Great video as always, Chloe! Thank you!
40 years later and there are still no cameras on the planes, thanks to which the pilot could visually see the most important elements of the plane. And how big are the cameras today, we see on the phones.
I live in the Portland suborns and I heard about this crash when I moved here
I'm amazed how many people survived. This really could have been SO much worse. Amazing how the lack of fuel actually ended up making the best of a bad situation!
Is that music from Sundered? Good choice! I'd recognize that gong/alarm sound anywhere
Seriously, what's worse? Having the landing gear malfunction (unlikely), at least it was down, or running out of fuel? Incredible!
This is absolutely mind boggling to me how this could happen.
Pretty amazing landing though. I'm starting to wonder if the trees maybe helped soften the landing? I've driven through that area and the trees are gone now but it sure isn't far from the airport.
Hello, thank you for another amazingly detailed and informative video! I wonder if you could maybe cover Aerofłot flight 281? It was a routine domestic flight between Moscow and Perm which ended as a disaster - the aircraft crashed into the ground because the pilot flying was drunk and didn't follow ATC instructions. I would love to see your video about this horrific and sad accident. Anyway, keep up the good job! All the best
My father in law was an EMT that night and remembers that night clearly.
I can't believe how many people survived this! I would love to see a fully lit animation showing where they landed compared to where the trees and homes were.. seems impossible
this is similar to the Eastern Airlines accident- the pilot on that flight were preoccupied with the nose gear and lost track of altitude and crashed into the FL Everglades.
WOOO YEAH CHLOE!!!
Another great video, it'd be cool to see you cover flight N55VM. Another fuel starvation caused accident that reminded me of this one.
Captain McBroom: *decides to focus on anything other than landing the plane*
Me: *in Nigel the Pelican from Finding Nemo voice* OH WOULD YOU JUST LAND THE PLANE!?
OMG! This veteran pilot totally freaked out! The Flight Engineer (who died) had already said that he visually saw the wing indicator and that the landing gear was down! So sad!
Our local Portland news station just posted a series of online photos on the anniversary of the crash. The most bizarre thing I noticed is how many tall, mature Douglas Fir trees were still standing back then. The Portland metro area has so few trees now on that side of town, it's like a wasteland. It looks like a crash site in its own right.
There are no words.......
Compliments to the narrator and the well documented videos. I really enjoy these videos but I'm so sad and stund to hear about how MANY people died in these plane crashes! How cn such sophisticated Planes crash!