When you’re young , making new friends is about developing a life. When you’re an adult, it’s about fitting new friends into the life you already have.
I find it harder to make friends as adults because everyone already has their group of friends or partners. People are more guarded because they're busy and don't have time to invest in new relationship with a stranger unless it's in a romantic aspect. When we were kids we had nothing but time.
Another challenge with making new friends as an adult is that you’re meeting someone who likely already has close friends/family that they would rather spend their precious free time with. If people think being “friend-zoned” is hard, try “acquaintance-zoned.” Unless you see this person every day out of sheer circumstance, like work, you’re unlikely to get enough of this person’s time to form a real bond, because you are not this person’s first choice of companionship.
I think that's definitely a part of it. Making friends as an adult always has an element of..."Hmmm...what are they getting out of this." Which makes it really important to figure out how to signal that what you want is to be friends with a cool person.
Hank, I *do* love you. Albeit in a vague, impersonal internet way using a loose definition of love that's probably about on the same level as Maxx's appreciation. Let the ship wars commence... ;)
I think the reason kids are more likely to make those value judgements is because they are in tightly controlled microcosms of family, school, extracurriculars, and religious communities. Once we are adults we have just a few namely work, family, and maybe a religious community. Most of our time is spent interacting with people we are likely not to see again or with whom our association is tenuous and brief so it takes work to see their importance and look deeper to form connection. I think that is why folks were saying on Twitter to get involved with more things. It is about creating more microcosms of context where we can take the time to go deeper with people.
and you're not forced to eat meals or walk with a large group so you don't get that time outside of class that most kids would get. for a lot of adults work can just be "im here for money that's it" so it can hard to make friends in that kind of environment.
Yep. I think this is the simplest explanation, and I don't see what data point cannot be explained by it but by these theories of value and personality. Hence; let's go outside and play.
Hector Sanchez Let’s put it this way. In your situation, when you say “let’s go out and play,” what you’re really saying is “Hey, I value you as a friend, and I value the time we spend together. Instead of blowing you off to play Pokemon on my Game Boy, I’m choosing to spend my time with you, because I value you as a friend.” As you get older, you have work, maybe a partner, maybe kids, etc., and it’s a lot harder to say “Hey, I value you as a friend, so I’m going to sacrifice my few precious hours of me-time to catch up on the latest Netflix series to hang out with you.” That’s what he means by value. Sure, putting yourself out there creates a series of microcosms that can hopefully lead to nice friendships, but even then, if you don’t put in the work or effort, you aren’t really going to go very far. You’d be amazed at how easy it is to be part of multiple communities, being a very active person, yet still not having a whole lot of “friends” because you don’t feel like doing anything outside of those activities. Tl;dr Making friends is tough, yo.
John I agree with what you’re saying if you were referring to bronfenbrenner's model, i think you would mean mesosystem. That would be the interactions playing between each microsystem
Everyone I've ever known who's had lots of friends as an adult has gone out of their way to work hard at it. They remember birthdays, random things you told them about your lives, and reach out to make plans. I think that it takes a lot more effort as an adult sometimes and often we're waiting for someone to do this work. Just do it, you have nothing to lose.
My husband has called his parents virtually every Sunday night for the past 20 years. I on the other hand get an email from my mother approximately every 7 minutes, and a follow up asking if I'm ok if I do not reply.
“Love is not free. It takes a devotion of time and energy. It takes work.” If that is not the most powerful quote I’ll hear all day I don’t know what is. So true in every type of relationship.
I've noticed that as an adult, people value you less for social companionship and more for what useful service you can perform for them. "What can you do for me?" seems to be the attitude, and "being a pleasant and entertaining social companion that I have a bunch of interests in common with" doesn't cut it any more. It's less like "friendship" and more like "networking", or maybe some kind of simulation of friendship that centers around mutual exploitation.
billd66 interesting. They're one and the same with all my friendships. My friendships are both " pleasant and entertaining social companions that I have a bunch of interests in common with" and also "what can they do for me". I always find ways to benefit from my friendships. All of my friends are either smart or talented, sometimes both. Many i beleive will be going places. Their smarts or talents help inspire me and i hope i do the same back. I believe friendships should be about helping each other be the best versions of themselves.
I follow the advice given but seems like, from my experience, adults pretty much stick to their long-held cliques and are not looking to expand their friend-group. I've taken up new hobbies, joined social groups, taken art classes, martial arts, gone into the city and just wandered around, talked with more people, invested time and care, but it's just so hard when everyone else seems content with their circle of wife/husband/kids/relatives and friends from college. I've moved around several times, all my college friends are across the country, and I have no family in the area. It's incredibly hard. I have great work relationships, but it ends there. I think why it's easier as children is because we are forced to spend vast amounts of time together, every day, for YEARS and often have the same peers from K to 12th grade, and sometimes it even goes into college. Plus there's tons of outside activity that we were able to go to as kids that were scheduled and set up *for* us -- birthday parties, field trips, etc. That also means that you have a lot of shared cultural knowledge and things to bond over and talk about. After school you lose all that. You work 8hrs a day and make smalltalk, and sometimes interesting conversations if time allows, but once you leave work that's the end of it and you know that everyone there is temporary. Departments change, people quit, get fired, etc. There is less to hold on to. I know I miss old coworkers but we don't work together anymore, and they've moved to different states, or have gotten married and had kids and that's their whole life now.
I'm 21 and I'm already losing more friends than I'm making. You hit the nail right on the head because I'm trying to be valued more than actually valuing other people. I'm a piece of work and that's why I'm connecting with people less.
I really agree with you on this. I’m almost 21 and a college student, but, contrary to what everybody says about college, making friends is really difficult for me at school. I feel like, for me, it’s a combination of not valuing others, but also expecting to be good friends right away when really that takes time and work that I’m apparently terrible at providing.
The way I have learn to make friends as an adult is that some friends are true friends, some are friends to have a drink, friends to party with, some other are friends to go to an intelectual movie, friends to go to a silly movie, friends to travel with, friends to hang out, and so on. Not everyone is going to be a true friend, the kind that would get you out of jail, but the rest of the friends you might have are valuable too to share other experiences.
Honestly, I don't really agree with this analysis! I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I've had a much harder time making friends post-high school, and it isn't because I gradually stopped seeing inherent value in other people--it's much more because no one I know has the same schedule as me anymore. Often times the first stage of friendship is circumstantial, ie you and the other person are required to spend a fair amount of time together, like sitting by each other in class, and from there you bond and then work towards spending even more time together outside of that 'required time'. My problem as a freelancer is not being jaded, or apathetic, or valuing people less, it's that I have literally no one other than my family who I 'have' to see a few times a week. That's why, personally, I don't feel your analysis covers my situation...but that's just my random two cents on the issue! It's an interesting discussion, and I don't really care about being right, I just want to make some adult friends and wish I could find the answer somewhere!
As a freelance musician, I have this same issue. Regardless of the amount of effort I put towards valuing others, if they're not available to hang out at 1 in the afternoon on a weekday, there's not much else I can do. I know over the past decade or so, most of the friends I've made have been people I've gigged with regularly. I'm not sure what kind of freelancer you are, but are there ways for you to reach out in a professional capacity, through workshops or conferences or the like, so that you might find people in a similar line of work with similar hours? I've found that once I make a friend through occupational proximity, I can kind of absorb some of their preexisting group of friends and vice versa.
I have been facing the same issue for the last couple of years as a freelance illustrator. I never get to meet or regularly talk to any of my existing friends because naturally we are all busy but my job preference (not that I regret it) has not allowed much opening for an actual friendship, not even a virtual one. I mean yes, Hank is right on us getting more conscious about who we become friends with in our adulthood but as kids, our thoughts are pretty much alike and that way it is easier to not have our choices narrowed down. I can keep up with the trends but being a part of it, following the mainstream ways of "hanging out" is just not for me. Maybe I am not valuing what everyone else is valuing around me. This mismatch is the cause of my constant struggle.
I think you are right, but I want to say that what Hank is saying about not autonatically valuing people as much as we age isn't about becoming "jaded," it's about the expanding scope of our frame of reference. Same reason we experience time dilation as we age. The kid next door is super important when you're 5 because there are probably only a few dozen people you see regularly. By the time you're an adult you've known thousands of people and each new person you meet is not going to stand out intrinsically.
You don't have to disagree with him, it just isn't the MAIN reason for you. What he says is true (might not apply to you so much but if it applies to other people around you then it's still very real) so if you factor that in with your scheduling problems then it makes sense you're a lonely loser. (That last part was a joke, I have a dark sense of humor 💀)
Re: long distance relationships with family: you can challenge each other to a responsive vlog, with no textual communication for a year... It worked with some people I could mention... Also, Happy Esther Day!
I struggle when people tell me to make friends by going out to a bar, joining a club or taking a class, because I have several chronic illnesses and so I'm mostly unable to do 'normal' adult things. I can't even work at the moment so it's pretty isolating/lonely but I don't really know how I can make new friends. It's hard balancing any relationships with disability because almost all of my energy is going towards basic tasks to keep myself alive and functioning on a day to day basis, like cooking, cleaning, laundry, personal hygiene, getting to medical appointments, etc. During the times that I do work, it takes 100% of my energy and there's nothing left for anything else. That's why I love the internet so much, particularly watching CZcams, because it doesn't deplete my energy but it feels like I'm interacting with others in the world and not quite as isolated and alone.
Jessica Kellgren-Fozard has some great videos about this, and her community is especially kind. I think the internet can be a wonderful tool for people with chronic illnesses or disabilities because it opens pathways to communicating and connecting with others that don't require IRL interaction/energy. Real friendships grow out of things like that. It's so cool.
I don't agree. At all. It's easier to be friends as children because our identities aren't set. We're able to create them, and they can adapt and change. Adults, though, have their identities built around their work and what they do. When your identity is a thing you have a say in constructing, you can more easily adapt and change to make friends. Your interests are informed by your desire to further a friendship. As an adult, this is not the case. You know what you like, generally, and your identity at work is structured around your job. If you try to make your identity at work about your interests and hobbies, it's only superficial because you've got fifteen minutes of break left to talk about your interests before you have to clock back in.
Related to this is that, in many cases, you only meet new people in work contexts as an adult. If your workplace is small or mid-sized, or doesn't have much turnover or interaction with other companies' employees, a huge chunk of your days and weeks won't have any new people in them. Shift work is also terrible for getting to know people. In many cases, people's hours rotate and change a lot now in lower-paying jobs (which is a horribly effective anti-union tactic). I very rarely see the same people in the same places at the same times, so it's hard to get to know anyone. Neither your observation nor mine is a new one, though. Love him or hate him, Karl Marx called this one pretty well, I think, with his theory of alienation.
I like this view. Been thinking a lot about it since its what i finally understood from "his dark materials" and "persona". Who we are, at least as kids, depends on who we are with. But even as adults i dont think we are set in stone yet
Some contrary thoughts: Not everyone feels that their identity is built around their work, and not everyone feels that the only people they can talk to about said identity are people they work with. It is true that in places like the USA, work-life balance is shifted horribly in favor of work, but it's still important to recognize that there is a life outside of it, especially if you make it a priority. There also seems to be an assumption being made here that friends are people who share your interests or identity, when really, friends are (like Hank said) just people you value and respect who feel the same way for you. They may not be people who share all of your interests or are even in your field of work, but they're people you make time for- even if it's just for a phone call. I agree that when you feel like all you have time for is your work (mmm, capitalism), it becomes difficult to make a life outside of it, but I like the concept of thinking "I will make time for _____" rather than "I don't have time for _____."
I think there are multiple factors that make it harder for adults to make friends. One big one is the fact that we don't have a pre-established social environment handed to us, especially those of us who don't have regular jobs. Maybe as adults we're conditioned not to value other people as much, but one person changing that about themselves doesn't solve the problem. I know people who value other people a whole lot and still find it difficult to find people who prioritize them on a similar level. So yeah, valuing other people is important, but it's not the only factor, and I think the "ways to meet people" advice is what some people need.
It's only very recently that I came to the realization that a LOT of people struggle with making friends as an adult. As someone who was very introverted growing up, I just automatically assumed the struggle was as a result of my own shortcomings. For me, simply recognizing that other people might be looking for the same thing I am has helped tremendously. I'm so thankful for all my friends, new and old.
My experience is that in my 20s, most of the people I meet either consider drinking to be the highest form of social activity or have decided that they aren’t really interested in adding to their social circles
I love you guys as mentors and entertainers, my parents and my brother for being there for me, and my close friends for putting up with my poor planning skills, constant over-eagerness, and lack of confidence.
Would love to see John's response to this! I love when you guys reply to each other's thoughts, you have such different ways of thinking about things and I love getting both points of view!
I just don't know how to talk to people. I don't like going to social events and the people there already have their groups pretty set anyway. When I get put in groups of people I try to talk and be interesting as myself, but when that one interaction is over I don't know how you get to the next one. I don't want to force anyone to talk to me or invite myself along when I don't know if I am welcome so I end up with a few pleasant, but shallow one time interactions with different people who all already have friends. It does not feel very good in the end.
prinsmarsvin I agree. It's exhausting. But really, it's just work. Try setting goals for yourself. Meet x amount of people a week and ask them for coffee or something. Be honest with them and tell them that you are out meeting new people. If they don't want to be friends with you that's ok. At least you have an acquaintance. At any success rate you will eventually have a few friends and access to their friends circle. I moved to a new country, so I have that ice breaker. Be honest with yourself. If you think you need more friends, put in the work.
Don't talk about shallow things. Skip the small talk. Yes, it will confuse people and you'll get a few nervous glances at first, but when you engage someone and get them talking about their real interests, they'll forget that it's against the rules to talk about things of greater importance than the weather or the local sports team. It will scare off a lot of shallow people who literally cannot hold a conversation. If you're a viewer of Vlogbrothers, I'm going to assume you're not terribly interested in someone who cruises through life with an effective room-temperature IQ, anyways.
YES. YES. YES. I so agree with how to make friends as an adult answer. It’s not easy. It takes time. It takes work from both sides. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. It’s okay!! Happy Esther Day Hank and John!!
I've often wondered at how easy it is for people to make friends with each other if they already know and like eachother's work. Like presumably you've noticed this at vidcon, that creators can meet and be friends by the end of a short con. That seems consistent with what you're saying, it's easier to make friends if you come into meeting someone with a mutual sense of valuing the other person and what they can do.
Yes to the scheduling time! I've been calling/skyping my parents at the same time every Sunday night since I moved out 8 years ago - it was my lifeline when I was a homesick college freshman, and it's the core of our relationship now that I'm a 26-year-old who lives far away. And when we have to cancel because someone's busy we get in touch or make an alternate plan, because there's that assumption of contact already set up, which helps a ton.
Zawadi Williams remain friendly with your roomate, keep in touch with your orientation group (if your school does that sort of thing), take a few classes that arent lectures that are quite small, if an RA or someone organizes a social gathering that isnt like an event (ie "pizza and ping pong night") go to it
Zawadi Williams If you're going to college, you'll likely be living in a dorm and in that dorm you will be surrounded by a random assortment of people, some of which you will like and some of which you won't so much. Try to make friends with those you like. They sleep really near you and will constantly be hanging out in what is essentially your house, so hanging out won't be too hard. If your college is anything like mine, the university will provide events which facilitate socialization early on for freshmen, and is a good way to get to know people. Another thing that is really helpful is to join a group or club. This will introduce you to people with a similar interest and will give you something to talk about. I also found that being a part of club gives me a sense of identity on my campus. It also will give you something to talk about when you meet someone new and they ask "so what do you do outside of class?" Speaking of class, odds are you'll meet people in some of your classes through group projects or small talk. It's good to befriend those people, because then you can study with them for tests, which will make studying more fun and will help your grade. Mostly, I would say, just try to be open to new experiences and say yes to everything (that you are comfortable with. Don't be pressured into doing anything you don't want to do so you'll seem cool) and you'll find friends along the way.
Happy Esther Day, friends!!! I love the phrase “joyful labor”... that seems like a good summary of friendship. Because it *is* work, but it is also fun and caring and kind. I am happy to put in that work for my friendships even when it is hard. And I am so, so grateful for the people in my life who are willing to help and work with *me* in return. dftba.
IMO, it's easier to make friends when you're a kid because you're stuck in a box all day every weekday with people who have (approximately) the same amount of power as you. As soon as either 1) you're not forced to see each other constantly or 2) there is a power imbalance, friendships become almost impossible to form. I was super awkward and weird but I made friends in school just by dint of seeing them everyday. I was able to make friends at work for the same reason. Now that I work from home, I have... one friend? I do understand the idea of not valuing people as much, though. When you're still in the box, you have to make do with what you've got (and you'd better not make enemies or you're stuck with them for 4-12 years). Once you're out of the 'box', and you can theoretically make friends with anyone, it's easy to discard people and be discarded and pretend that's okay.
Going Spaceward You start mattering when you allow others people to matter to you! It's so simple that we refuse to comprehend it. It's like when John said, "What matters to you defines your mattering"
Pearl Alex I guess with the little things. Call once in a while. Listen to them, not just hear. Stop making excuses to spend time with them..The little things
One of the weirdest things to me in my adult life is how I treat people like friends, but their inner circle is usually already many friends and family and I get booted out at a point (usually when the person finds a significant other) or never get through in the first place. It becomes a one way street, and once I stop doing the driving the interactions completely stop. I've had good acquaintance relationships--better than nothing--but it's not a satisfying situation to not have anyone want to be a close friend.
Am I the only one who thinks that, as we get older, even if we want to make friends, there's a part of us that thinks friendship is juvenile? And that prevents us from making friends? It's easier for kids because for them, friendship is the coolest thing ever.
I think that's so true! Somewhere along the line, we lose track of the fact that friendship is, if not _the_ coolest thing ever, certainly in the top 5. Or we think that adults aren't "supposed" to value friendship, so we _try_ to value other things more highly.
I think you're over analyzing it. Kids make friends easily because the circle of individuals they interact with is small, direct, consistent with lots of time for maintaining those relationship. I think that last part is where it breaks down for adults.
In part, perhaps, because we (society at large) don't do a good job of making it clear that friendships need to be a priority in our lives. Saying yes to friendships and doing the work to maintain them often means moving schedules around, saying no to other things, and making time when, before, that time was just available by circumstance or school schedule or what have you.
That's it, I was never able to define/categorize the way I felt about other ppl, neighbors, coworkers... etc, but you just did, I think I do value them pretty quickly. It's rarely mutual but when it is, I connect better with them and friendship happens. It does make sense. Damn you Hank, you did it again.
Ugh, I have been having such a hard time with friendship in adulthood. My husband and I will often say that we need more friends or new friends or whatever (most of our old friends have either moved away or have recently had children and therefore became a lot less available). He kept suggesting that I go out to meetups and things, and I kept saying that that sounded exhausting and I didn't want to go hang out with random strangers all the time. Eventually I realized that he wanted more friends in the sense of having more people to do stuff with (see movies, play board games, go drinking, etc.). I wanted more friends in the sense of having people I was close to who I could talk to regularly and share details of my life and hear about theirs in return. Hanging out with random strangers in adulthood is pretty easy, as long as you're able to get out the house and go do something. It's the valuing one another and maintaining closeness that is so, so hard these days. I will say that I do think a big part of it is finding someone who is enough in the same "life stage" or situation as you to the point where your schedules are easier to mesh. My aforementioned friends with small children were such good friends before, but now we are never available at the same time. I'm in pharmacy school and I work part time. The times when I'm available are usually later in the evenings, which is great for my few childless friends. But for the ones with toddlers, that's when they're getting the kids in bed. Also, if we spend time together, either the kids have to somehow be present or else they have to find a sitter. Meanwhile, they all seem to spend tons of time with each other, because all the moms with small children have schedules that match up, and when they get together, their kids can just play together while the moms hang out. It's just really hard sometimes to maintain that friendship when the times we're available and the things we're available for are so often so different.
Lesson to learn in messed up 2018: DON’T BE OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE. As a student I get to interact with loads of people on a daily basis and what I’ve seen is that people have such strong and rigid opinions about anything from a baguette to the governmental policies. Respect others opinions and be flexible. It isn’t always that what you think is correct. Make room for others’ opinions. Honestly I think that’s the best way that people can learn to value each other
I've wondered if this can be overdone. I find many times that just accepting as person's opinion leaves me with nothing to add to the conversation. E.g. You think "x"? Ok, I'm ok with that, I don't have to agree or disagree. (Oh crap they're waiting for me to say something) perhaps to think about it a different way, is it the holding of different opinions that gives people a reason to converse?
Jeremiah Baker oh no I don’t mean that. I meant that instead of just refuting someone’s opinion on something we should listen to their side of the story and not necessarily agree but rather discuss it over. It’s so often that we hear just one side of the story E.g. John kicked the dog. The opinion one forms here is John is just cruel But saying John kicked the dog because the dog bit him. Then John is just defending himself. So what I mean is that don’t assume stuff unless you know the entirety of it. And to know the entirety listening and discussing are crucial
Esther day is also my birthday, I have a huge party, it's my once a year party almost 100 people typically join in an the whole party I get drunk an tell everyone individually why I love an appreciate them
Wow I was totally like this! I found that college was a way better environment for making friends than high school, although I don’t know if any of that applies to you. I feel like I had the same experience of friend making in high school as I do now as an adult, so at the least you’re getting some experience points that will be handy later. In college the difference was a lot like what Hank is saying: people cared what I thought and cared that my immediate experience was good. In high school I got sorta ignored, I guess? The best thing I can say is that, as Hank is saying, pay attention to those around you instead of ignoring them back as is the usual thing to do.
As a 16 year old also I feel like I'm terrible at making friends because I value peoples appreciation of me too much and they don't do the same back and then it gets a little awkward, so i give up on the friendship thing altogether. So, hopefully that is a thing that I can grow out of.
i love how not only was the question not answered, but also the title of the video led us to believe that it would be, yet hank only devoted roughly 50% of the video to that question because he was answering other questions to get to the point of the video.
We were just talking about this the other day with one of our adult daughters (she's 21). I moved to Minnesota when I was 25 years old, and while I found it easy to get along with people at work (they were work friends), I didn't have friends outside of work. So I tried things like taking Open U classes, doing things that were interesting to me, but that really didn't work. The problem was that most of the people I encountered were born and raised here. They had large extended families, and friends going back to pre-school. They didn't *need* more friends. My college friends who moved to cities full of transient people, like Washington D.C., had tons of friends. They were meeting people who were all interested in making connections, too. It was sort of like that first week in the college dorm, where EVERYONE was friendless, and looking to make connections. My feeling is that everyone has a limit on the number of people they can maintain relationships with, and once you hit a certain point, you may meet someone you like a lot, but you simply don't have room in your life for more relationships. I have met and made friends as an adult, but it wasn't through doing something I was interested in, it was from doing something I was *passionate* about. I wasn't looking for friends when I was joining these groups, but I was looking for people to talk to about these passions. From there, I made friends. As for finding a mate, I did that the old-fashioned way: by placing a personal ad in a newspaper.
Even 4 years later, this had an impact on my life. I have been procrastinating on answering messages from friends for months (literally). This video gave me the push I needed to answer them and get back in touch. Thank you!
Never been this early! Edit: this opened my eyes in many ways. I'm living faraway from home and left all of my friends behind and it has been difficult to make friends here and this video puts things into perspective. Thanks Hank!
I recently got back in touch with my childhood friend. We've been pretty estranged for the past 10 years or so, but I just decided to reach out to her one day and now I'm happy to report that we are actively working on getting our friendship back on track. It has its challenges, as we are two very introverted and anti-social people, but we are putting in the effort. I would be willing to bury a body for her and it brings me much joy to know that she knows that too. Relationships are hard work, but in the end they are truly worth it. I am also on the way of becoming great friends with my nerdfighter penpal. We got paired up after buying the Nerdfighter Penpal Club perk during P4A 2016 and we have been steadily building a friendship ever since. We are going to meet up in person in 25 days so that is very exciting. Bygonya, if you happen to see this: Happy Esther Day! I'm hesitant to say that I love you as we have never talked face-to-face, but I like you very much and I appreciate the fact that you are in my life.
well that last part hit close... it really sucks when you want to pour that devotion onto someone who doesn't feel the same way. and there's nothing one can do about it... happy esther day, love yall
Yeah, it sucks. Last year I had an amazing team at Uni, but when the year ended our group chat went silent. I lost count how many times I wrote "hey, guys! Anyone wants to have some burgers!" and nobody answered.
Yea, welcome to most of my adult friendships the past 5 years now. And my friends didn't even have kids or big career steps or anything. They just curled up into themselves. I guess once you pass 35 there just isn't enough energy left after work to live anymore for a lot of folks. You can only be told no for so long before you just stop bothering to ask.
Michael Zaite but that’s so sad.. is there any way to prevent that? A certain type of friend to choose instead of others? A certain attitude to have? I just graduated and as people around me get into relationships I already see this process starting
wardm4 I always thought love was free to receive but costly to give. In short, love is sacrifice. When both parties sacrifice, then both also receive which makes one realize that you don’t lose much
I'm of the opinion that nothing is truly free. If you wish to be loved, for someone to desire your existence, then you need to show that you are valueable. This need not be money or power. It can simply be interesting ideas that challenge the mind, or being really pleasant to be around, having admirable qualities, etc. You need to show that you matter. That takes effort, time, perphaps even a bit of peace, but it does cost something. Sure does sound wrong though...
Hi Hank. I think it's cool that you and Katherine and John are so open about yourselves and your family, even though it must be hard sometimes. I'm in my early 20s, and there aren't a lot of people who talk about what it's actually like to be an adult and who get as real as you do. Thank you for helping me feel a little less lost
I think it's harder to make friends when your older because most people by that time have already established their social circle which makes it more difficult to integrate strangers into your circle, if you do make friends then it's often only superficial. The reality of the situation is that if you've haven't established strong friendships (preferably from childhood) by the time your 25-30 then your going to face a pretty dim future.
Happy Esther Day! I don't know any of y'all personally, but I want to say a big I LOVE YOU to the Nerdfighteria community at large . . . y'all have definitely made a positive impact in my life. Thank you!
Hank, by chance I traveled to visit family half the US away on Esther Day this year. It was for a funeral for a departed grandparent, but it was a good reunion. I hadn't seen any blood relatives in years. It ended up being the best trip to see family I've ever had. My closest family has always had severe problems with drugs and abuse. It was an incredible treat when I flew in and was told my sister had been clean of substances for ten months. I hadn't talked to her for five or six years. She apologized for her misdeeds, the stealing and lying and general bad sisterhood. I was receptive, which was a challenge for me. We have a relationship that has been blessed by Esther, I feel like. Just good timing 🙂
I learned in a big way last year that a lot of the people I valued and did a lot for... didn't value me back. And it did suck. And my confidence suffered a lot. And it's been a lot of work to get back to a place where I actively am trying again. I'm just more cautious because of it, and realize I have a lot of walls. Not sure what to do but keep trying... with my eyes a little wider open.
Oh my god HANK thank you so much for this. This gives so much clarity to some things I've been thinkin' about lately. I feel like so often we have people we call our friends, but who really aren't that invested in being our friends. And it can be really lonely. I think it's really important for us to think more seriously about how we foster and keep connections. Loneliness is a terrible epidemic for so many people, and especially elderly people, but also apparently it's effecting younger generations a lot. I think we really need community but also to consider how we reach out to others, and those we only know minimally too.
Jesus, Hank, thank you for so powerfully reframing the "making friends as an adult" question! It's a problem I've been mulling over as I've been getting older & I feel like something really clicked.
Conversation is best (I think). I talked with somebody just the other day in the library & how she wants to make a book talking about mythology. I offered help in what mythology I know. So I think the good way is just talking.
"But I actually don't think that it is harder! I think that we just forgot how hard we used to work for it." Interesting thought. Hank, i love the way your mind works, i love that you care about important things. You and John are precious people and we’re so lucky to have you in our lives. ❤
Wow, this completely describes my issue with making friends now that I'm an adult in a way that I hadn't even consciously realized. Thank you as always, Hank, for being so thoughtful and deep with what you talk about in your videos.
I have a lot of experience with both of the big questions you addressed. I immigrated--completely alone--when I was twenty-four, leaving all my family and friends 8,000 km away. So keeping in touch with family and making new friends as an adult are both skills I've absolutely had to hone very carefully over the years. I would argue that the biggest asset that can help you to form friendships as an adult is genuine curiosity. Curiosity will help motivate you to do the work of finding interesting people. Curiosity will--as Dale Carnegie so astutely observed--help you to be a better partner in conversation. Curiosity will help you feel sincere appreciation for what other people have to say and offer, thus making it easier to follow through on Hank's own astute advice about the need to value other people. Another really important ingredient to forming meaningful bonds of friendship with other adults is allowing yourself to be a bit vulnerable. Friendships grow strong when the friends need one another on some level, but admitting that you need another person is a vulnerable act. It seems that most adults view their independence as a key feature of their adulthood, so they have a hard time allowing themselves to depend on one another. Now, to be clear, I'm not saying you should be "needy" and place onerous demands on your friends' attention or dump your proverbial handbag out in front of everyone. But real closeness absolutely does require you to lower your defenses in a way many adults struggle to do. In this respect, I think one of the biggest challenges I've had to overcome as an immigrant has also been a certain sort of advantage; being alone in a foreign land makes it hard not to sincerely need your friends. And both of these points tie in nicely with Hank's comparison between forming friendships as an adult and as a child. When you think about the differences between children and adults, it's hard to find two more significant differences than curiosity and vulnerability. Children are inexhaustibly curious and undeniably vulnerable. Of course correlation doesn't prove causation, but I think the case is strong for both of these factors. As to the other question of staying in touch with family far away, I would say Hank's advice is mostly spot on. I would just add one small modification that the scheduling doesn't always need to be explicit. I see my family once every two or three years, so keeping in touch across that distance is a really important challenge for us. We don't have regularly scheduled phone calls on a fixed day and time, although I can see that being necessary for some people with especially hectic lives. It's enough for us to keep one another informed about our regular schedules--when we get home from work, what activities we do every week, when we like to go to sleep, etc., and of course to filter that through the difference of six time zones. For example, my mother and I know that she's driving home from work when I'm relaxing before bed, so we can reliably call each other in that time window. And if I happen to miss her call because I'm out late on a date or something, she knows I'll call her back during the next window that we're both free. My family and I have succeeded in staying very close with this sort of informal scheduling for regular conversations, and we explicitly schedule Skype calls with extended family for holidays and special occasions.
p.s. As a teacher, I think this moving TED talk is worth revisiting for Esther Day--particularly the portion where this link starts: czcams.com/video/Xe2nlti47kA/video.htmlm49s
Hank (and John), I love you. Not in a personal way, but I greatly appreciate how you've positively impacted my life and other's lives through this community.
I think as adults...or honestly just for me, it is harder to make friends because I can trust less of people, sometimes because of my own past experiences, sometimes because the circumstances call for caution. I do value their actions, sometimes my boss and colleagues that but I don't wanna be friends with them, because mixing work with friendship is a usually a terrible idea because of colleagues relationships and honestly when I don't love my work, I don't wanna be reminded of my work off-hour, so I already dont feel like I want these ppl to be in my life anymore already? And I guess maybe that's why ppl originally suggest to go out more, because different circumstances provide better or more comfy conditions to maybe trust, or feel freer to just make friends or not. Maybe ultimately is just finding a hobby, because it provides the most easy-to-trust environment when it's just other people with the same interest? No ulterior motives, no forced obligation and whatnot? That's been how it is for me, at least.
I really appreciate the alternate to sending Christmas cards that Esther Day provides: a day in summer to snail-mail expressions of platonic love to friends & family when it is unexpected and can really be taken in by the receiver. I think I've said before: I can't really say I *love* Hank or John or Nerdfighters in general (except my fellow Nerdfightin' husband :) ) but I surely do appreciate, like, respect and care about you guys. Thank you for all you do.
I randomly got this video recommended at the exact right time because I'm in currently in a limbo between leaving a place where I had many friends and going to a place where I know no one. Turns out that I already figured out the answer just from being aromantic and having an innate drive to invest in friendships with people I have a platonic crush on. Now to practice making friends with people I don't have a "crush" on
Happy Esther day. I always tell my close friends and family I love them and show them how much they mean to me so I’m going to take a moment to tell you, Hank and John, and the nerdfighters on this channel. John, I love you because you enforced the to myself and millions of other people that at a young age my feeling were not only real but important and these big things I was going through were actually big and I shouldn’t let be tell me they weren’t. As an adult you helped me deal with the fact their bad parts of my brain that are completely real and also that there are million beauty things about the world if only you choose to explore them. Hank, I love you because you constantly remind me that if you love something love it with everything you’ve got. That if you really want something that you may have all your energy into ten things at once but all those things can be awesome. You’ve taught me that not being exceptional at everything you do is not only okay but likely. You’ve both taught me that while there areas a million things to take seriously there are million more to just joke about. That if you want to write a book, make videos, be a teacher, have a secret pet snake, then do it. Not only did you teach me all these things but you’ve taught it to millions of other people who have gotten friends, roommates, and even life partners out of all of this just because we all love you two. I hope everyone has an amazing Esther day and feels the love all through out it. DFTBA.
Happy Esther Day! I regard making a friend outside of work as one of the biggest achievements of recent years. For me, part of the difficulty was the uncertainty of my job. I felt, "Why should I make friends when I'm just going to leave in a few months?" But I sat down next to this person and all these years later, she is one of my closest friends.
As I watch this video, my best friend from college (which ended five years ago) is driving 5 hours to come visit me for the weekend. This just hit home to me how much I appreciate her. She puts in the effort. We take turns every couple of months driving to visit each other, because our continued friendship is worth scheduling a time to put forth the effort to be in the same physical space. I am so grateful for Ashley.
I love your advice videos! Agreeing on other people's intrinsic importance is such a good way to see it!! I agree with your view on instagram on the matter now! Like yeah we go and search people up online but I guess sometimes we need to stop ourselves and focus on the basics of their character and your own. Not with feeding our ego's and comparing.
Thank you. I'm back in my hometown for the summer, and I keep finding myself spending hours on the internet without interacting with people. Thank you for reminding me to put work into the relationships that matter to me.
I think Hank's theory about adult friendships might apply in some cases but I feel like it misses the mark. I don't believe that adults work less to maintain or create friendships. As an adult I work much *harder* to maintain and create friendships. I'm sure a lot of adults can relate to this. As an adult I have to meticulously plan how to stay in contact with childhood/high school friends.I put myself out there *more* and search for potential friends all the time. I have to navigate around a regimented schedule that unlike school, doesn't intrinsically consist of social interaction with my peers. Yes, maybe I'm a bit more choosy when it comes to who I include in my social circle, but that doesn't map onto less effort or willingness to value other people. Hank's theory also totally discounts how much harder it can be to make friends as a marginalized person. I don't go up to every random person and see them as a potential friend. Frankly, as a queer trans person there is a probability that many random people think there's something wrong with me. Making myself vulnerable might pose a literal threat to my safety. I can't assume value the way I did as a kid because that's simply not how adult social interactions work. The tone of this video came across a little judgemental. As if to say "maybe you'll make more friends if you put in more effort to see value in other people." This assumes 1.) I'm not already doing that 2.) Doing so will lead to friendship as opposed to a scary interaction with a bigoted person. You can attempt to see the value in others as much as you want but if you are marginalized in some way (and I'm sure this applies to identities outside of sexuality and gender) then there is already a built in percent of humanity that will *never* see the value in *you*.
I think it really has to do with how we conceptualize community. I think that in most (capitalist) countries the nuclear family is the main unit. The emphasis we have on romantic love, coupled with a 40hr + work week, supports a structure where most people have time for their job, and less emotional energy ready to give to others (which is often taken up with their romantic partner). So people outside of this paradigm find it hard to make friends, and people inside the paradigm will be less likely to search out or try to find others. I think we gotta reconceptualize what community looks like!
Definitely something to thing about - it may not be the exact answer or the perfect solution, but it’s a really great perspective on a difficult issue that a lot of different kinds of people experience.
I dunno...I had hell making friends as a kid (and it's damn near impossible now). :/ And "putting [yourself] out there" when you live in a rural area is pretty much impossible, especially when you're a queer Pagan living in the Bible Belt (and don't get me started on the political differences...) and the locals hate outsiders. On the rare occasion I see old school friends, it's either a few minutes of incredibly awkward conversation or watching them spot me in public spaces only to not-so-subtly change their route to avoid having to say hello (I try not to take it too personally as I've done the same thing because it was one of those days where I just didn't want to people one bit more than absolutely necessary and a painfully awkward conversation would have exhausted that day's people-ing limits). Unfortunately my efforts to become part of online communities usually wind up with me becoming a lurker because even in groups of people with similar interests I feel incredibly out of place. (Sometimes said online community turns out to be just horrid--dictatorial mods, members just being awful to one another, etc.) I guess it's hermitage for me after all.
"I think we forgot how hard we used to work at it" that's an excellent point. I think we're also more easily disappointed, or possibly more easily discouraged by disappointment. When I was a kid, finding out that someone didn't like x thing wasn't a big deal, and having an awkward moment with someone didn't make me want to run away screaming and not talk to them anymore. But now, those things are like "guess this isn't going to work out then." It's good to be able to recognise that so I can try and fix that behaviour in the future, so thanks for that.
I never thought you and John looked alike until this video. Wow, you guys ARE brothers. Also I totally agree. It’s a lot harder now to find people that love you and aren’t in competition with you.
When you’re young , making new friends is about developing a life. When you’re an adult, it’s about fitting new friends into the life you already have.
Well said, I thought Hank's explanation was a bit of a stretch.
Ha. I have no life whatsoever and also didn't make friend when I moved here.
Jokes on you! I have no life!
A person that platonically loves many people is called a polyester.
Nice one. DFTBA!
Nectaar Maybe they are just a natural blend.
This here is one spectacular pun
A person that platonically touches minors is called a child molestor
@@aaaaii6511 hey now
I find it harder to make friends as adults because everyone already has their group of friends or partners. People are more guarded because they're busy and don't have time to invest in new relationship with a stranger unless it's in a romantic aspect. When we were kids we had nothing but time.
Another challenge with making new friends as an adult is that you’re meeting someone who likely already has close friends/family that they would rather spend their precious free time with. If people think being “friend-zoned” is hard, try “acquaintance-zoned.” Unless you see this person every day out of sheer circumstance, like work, you’re unlikely to get enough of this person’s time to form a real bond, because you are not this person’s first choice of companionship.
Finally, someone else who uses the term "acquaintance-zoned"!
Hank: "Messed 2018"
Me from 2020: "He dose not know what's a messed year"
I thought exactly the same thing sitting here in Jan 2021 with that messed up 2020 still lingering
Hello from 2024. It got worse.
Always thought the difficulty in making friends as an adult was because it's way easier to trust peers when you're a kid... Happy Esther Day❤️
I think that's definitely a part of it. Making friends as an adult always has an element of..."Hmmm...what are they getting out of this." Which makes it really important to figure out how to signal that what you want is to be friends with a cool person.
vlogbrothers agreed, open and honest is the way to go if you're friends making
Hank, I don't love you, however I do appreciate the work you do.
its the human condition no one blames you
+
Hanxx sounds pretty good
😂
Hank, I *do* love you.
Albeit in a vague, impersonal internet way using a loose definition of love that's probably about on the same level as Maxx's appreciation.
Let the ship wars commence... ;)
I think the reason kids are more likely to make those value judgements is because they are in tightly controlled microcosms of family, school, extracurriculars, and religious communities. Once we are adults we have just a few namely work, family, and maybe a religious community. Most of our time is spent interacting with people we are likely not to see again or with whom our association is tenuous and brief so it takes work to see their importance and look deeper to form connection. I think that is why folks were saying on Twitter to get involved with more things. It is about creating more microcosms of context where we can take the time to go deeper with people.
and you're not forced to eat meals or walk with a large group so you don't get that time outside of class that most kids would get. for a lot of adults work can just be "im here for money that's it" so it can hard to make friends in that kind of environment.
Yep. I think this is the simplest explanation, and I don't see what data point cannot be explained by it but by these theories of value and personality.
Hence; let's go outside and play.
Hector Sanchez Let’s put it this way. In your situation, when you say “let’s go out and play,” what you’re really saying is “Hey, I value you as a friend, and I value the time we spend together. Instead of blowing you off to play Pokemon on my Game Boy, I’m choosing to spend my time with you, because I value you as a friend.”
As you get older, you have work, maybe a partner, maybe kids, etc., and it’s a lot harder to say “Hey, I value you as a friend, so I’m going to sacrifice my few precious hours of me-time to catch up on the latest Netflix series to hang out with you.”
That’s what he means by value. Sure, putting yourself out there creates a series of microcosms that can hopefully lead to nice friendships, but even then, if you don’t put in the work or effort, you aren’t really going to go very far.
You’d be amazed at how easy it is to be part of multiple communities, being a very active person, yet still not having a whole lot of “friends” because you don’t feel like doing anything outside of those activities.
Tl;dr Making friends is tough, yo.
John Rovell +
John I agree with what you’re saying if you were referring to bronfenbrenner's model, i think you would mean mesosystem. That would be the interactions playing between each microsystem
Everyone I've ever known who's had lots of friends as an adult has gone out of their way to work hard at it. They remember birthdays, random things you told them about your lives, and reach out to make plans. I think that it takes a lot more effort as an adult sometimes and often we're waiting for someone to do this work. Just do it, you have nothing to lose.
“This messed up 2018” ... 2020 thinks this is absolutely HILARIOUS!!!
I was thinking to write the same in 2021 😂
I live far from my parents and I told my parents that I will always call on Friday. It's been 9 years it works
I did the same thing with skype it helped a lot, especially freshman year of college.
I call my parents every day at least a few minute call to check on them and tell them that I love them
Your parents have to already love you for this to work.
My day is Monday!! 💕
My husband has called his parents virtually every Sunday night for the past 20 years. I on the other hand get an email from my mother approximately every 7 minutes, and a follow up asking if I'm ok if I do not reply.
“Love is not free. It takes a devotion of time and energy. It takes work.” If that is not the most powerful quote I’ll hear all day I don’t know what is. So true in every type of relationship.
I've noticed that as an adult, people value you less for social companionship and more for what useful service you can perform for them. "What can you do for me?" seems to be the attitude, and "being a pleasant and entertaining social companion that I have a bunch of interests in common with" doesn't cut it any more. It's less like "friendship" and more like "networking", or maybe some kind of simulation of friendship that centers around mutual exploitation.
billd66 interesting. They're one and the same with all my friendships. My friendships are both " pleasant and entertaining social companions that I have a bunch of interests in common with" and also "what can they do for me". I always find ways to benefit from my friendships. All of my friends are either smart or talented, sometimes both. Many i beleive will be going places. Their smarts or talents help inspire me and i hope i do the same back. I believe friendships should be about helping each other be the best versions of themselves.
I follow the advice given but seems like, from my experience, adults pretty much stick to their long-held cliques and are not looking to expand their friend-group. I've taken up new hobbies, joined social groups, taken art classes, martial arts, gone into the city and just wandered around, talked with more people, invested time and care, but it's just so hard when everyone else seems content with their circle of wife/husband/kids/relatives and friends from college. I've moved around several times, all my college friends are across the country, and I have no family in the area. It's incredibly hard. I have great work relationships, but it ends there.
I think why it's easier as children is because we are forced to spend vast amounts of time together, every day, for YEARS and often have the same peers from K to 12th grade, and sometimes it even goes into college. Plus there's tons of outside activity that we were able to go to as kids that were scheduled and set up *for* us -- birthday parties, field trips, etc. That also means that you have a lot of shared cultural knowledge and things to bond over and talk about. After school you lose all that. You work 8hrs a day and make smalltalk, and sometimes interesting conversations if time allows, but once you leave work that's the end of it and you know that everyone there is temporary. Departments change, people quit, get fired, etc. There is less to hold on to. I know I miss old coworkers but we don't work together anymore, and they've moved to different states, or have gotten married and had kids and that's their whole life now.
Sora I feel the exact same way. What state are you in?
I'm 21 and I'm already losing more friends than I'm making. You hit the nail right on the head because I'm trying to be valued more than actually valuing other people. I'm a piece of work and that's why I'm connecting with people less.
I really agree with you on this. I’m almost 21 and a college student, but, contrary to what everybody says about college, making friends is really difficult for me at school. I feel like, for me, it’s a combination of not valuing others, but also expecting to be good friends right away when really that takes time and work that I’m apparently terrible at providing.
The way I have learn to make friends as an adult is that some friends are true friends, some are friends to have a drink, friends to party with, some other are friends to go to an intelectual movie, friends to go to a silly movie, friends to travel with, friends to hang out, and so on. Not everyone is going to be a true friend, the kind that would get you out of jail, but the rest of the friends you might have are valuable too to share other experiences.
+++++++++++
That sounds like sanity. I like that.
Honestly, I don't really agree with this analysis! I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I've had a much harder time making friends post-high school, and it isn't because I gradually stopped seeing inherent value in other people--it's much more because no one I know has the same schedule as me anymore. Often times the first stage of friendship is circumstantial, ie you and the other person are required to spend a fair amount of time together, like sitting by each other in class, and from there you bond and then work towards spending even more time together outside of that 'required time'. My problem as a freelancer is not being jaded, or apathetic, or valuing people less, it's that I have literally no one other than my family who I 'have' to see a few times a week. That's why, personally, I don't feel your analysis covers my situation...but that's just my random two cents on the issue! It's an interesting discussion, and I don't really care about being right, I just want to make some adult friends and wish I could find the answer somewhere!
As a freelance musician, I have this same issue. Regardless of the amount of effort I put towards valuing others, if they're not available to hang out at 1 in the afternoon on a weekday, there's not much else I can do. I know over the past decade or so, most of the friends I've made have been people I've gigged with regularly.
I'm not sure what kind of freelancer you are, but are there ways for you to reach out in a professional capacity, through workshops or conferences or the like, so that you might find people in a similar line of work with similar hours? I've found that once I make a friend through occupational proximity, I can kind of absorb some of their preexisting group of friends and vice versa.
I have been facing the same issue for the last couple of years as a freelance illustrator. I never get to meet or regularly talk to any of my existing friends because naturally we are all busy but my job preference (not that I regret it) has not allowed much opening for an actual friendship, not even a virtual one. I mean yes, Hank is right on us getting more conscious about who we become friends with in our adulthood but as kids, our thoughts are pretty much alike and that way it is easier to not have our choices narrowed down. I can keep up with the trends but being a part of it, following the mainstream ways of "hanging out" is just not for me. Maybe I am not valuing what everyone else is valuing around me. This mismatch is the cause of my constant struggle.
I think you are right, but I want to say that what Hank is saying about not autonatically valuing people as much as we age isn't about becoming "jaded," it's about the expanding scope of our frame of reference. Same reason we experience time dilation as we age. The kid next door is super important when you're 5 because there are probably only a few dozen people you see regularly. By the time you're an adult you've known thousands of people and each new person you meet is not going to stand out intrinsically.
You don't have to disagree with him, it just isn't the MAIN reason for you. What he says is true (might not apply to you so much but if it applies to other people around you then it's still very real) so if you factor that in with your scheduling problems then it makes sense you're a lonely loser. (That last part was a joke, I have a dark sense of humor 💀)
Re: long distance relationships with family: you can challenge each other to a responsive vlog, with no textual communication for a year...
It worked with some people I could mention...
Also, Happy Esther Day!
I had the same thought
Or 'communcation', even. ;-)
I struggle when people tell me to make friends by going out to a bar, joining a club or taking a class, because I have several chronic illnesses and so I'm mostly unable to do 'normal' adult things. I can't even work at the moment so it's pretty isolating/lonely but I don't really know how I can make new friends. It's hard balancing any relationships with disability because almost all of my energy is going towards basic tasks to keep myself alive and functioning on a day to day basis, like cooking, cleaning, laundry, personal hygiene, getting to medical appointments, etc. During the times that I do work, it takes 100% of my energy and there's nothing left for anything else. That's why I love the internet so much, particularly watching CZcams, because it doesn't deplete my energy but it feels like I'm interacting with others in the world and not quite as isolated and alone.
Jessica Kellgren-Fozard has some great videos about this, and her community is especially kind. I think the internet can be a wonderful tool for people with chronic illnesses or disabilities because it opens pathways to communicating and connecting with others that don't require IRL interaction/energy. Real friendships grow out of things like that. It's so cool.
untappedinkwell Thank you, I actually already love her! I'm a lesbian as well so I really relate to her and her videos are fantastic :)
She's so great, right?!
marisdc Thank you for your comment. So many things you said are true for me as well.
untappedinkwell Thank you for the suggestion.
I don't agree. At all. It's easier to be friends as children because our identities aren't set. We're able to create them, and they can adapt and change. Adults, though, have their identities built around their work and what they do. When your identity is a thing you have a say in constructing, you can more easily adapt and change to make friends. Your interests are informed by your desire to further a friendship. As an adult, this is not the case. You know what you like, generally, and your identity at work is structured around your job. If you try to make your identity at work about your interests and hobbies, it's only superficial because you've got fifteen minutes of break left to talk about your interests before you have to clock back in.
This is a very good perspective. I think these things are related though. I see this perspective as additive no contrary.
Related to this is that, in many cases, you only meet new people in work contexts as an adult. If your workplace is small or mid-sized, or doesn't have much turnover or interaction with other companies' employees, a huge chunk of your days and weeks won't have any new people in them. Shift work is also terrible for getting to know people. In many cases, people's hours rotate and change a lot now in lower-paying jobs (which is a horribly effective anti-union tactic). I very rarely see the same people in the same places at the same times, so it's hard to get to know anyone. Neither your observation nor mine is a new one, though. Love him or hate him, Karl Marx called this one pretty well, I think, with his theory of alienation.
That's fair. I should have considered how the two work together to make it so hard to make friends. Heck, capitalism is structured to devalue humans.
I like this view. Been thinking a lot about it since its what i finally understood from "his dark materials" and "persona". Who we are, at least as kids, depends on who we are with. But even as adults i dont think we are set in stone yet
Some contrary thoughts: Not everyone feels that their identity is built around their work, and not everyone feels that the only people they can talk to about said identity are people they work with. It is true that in places like the USA, work-life balance is shifted horribly in favor of work, but it's still important to recognize that there is a life outside of it, especially if you make it a priority. There also seems to be an assumption being made here that friends are people who share your interests or identity, when really, friends are (like Hank said) just people you value and respect who feel the same way for you. They may not be people who share all of your interests or are even in your field of work, but they're people you make time for- even if it's just for a phone call. I agree that when you feel like all you have time for is your work (mmm, capitalism), it becomes difficult to make a life outside of it, but I like the concept of thinking "I will make time for _____" rather than "I don't have time for _____."
I think there are multiple factors that make it harder for adults to make friends. One big one is the fact that we don't have a pre-established social environment handed to us, especially those of us who don't have regular jobs. Maybe as adults we're conditioned not to value other people as much, but one person changing that about themselves doesn't solve the problem. I know people who value other people a whole lot and still find it difficult to find people who prioritize them on a similar level. So yeah, valuing other people is important, but it's not the only factor, and I think the "ways to meet people" advice is what some people need.
It's only very recently that I came to the realization that a LOT of people struggle with making friends as an adult. As someone who was very introverted growing up, I just automatically assumed the struggle was as a result of my own shortcomings. For me, simply recognizing that other people might be looking for the same thing I am has helped tremendously. I'm so thankful for all my friends, new and old.
Some of my best friends I met on the internet.
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I’m thinking on doing that, like joining Slacks, Discord’s, or Facebook groups
My experience is that in my 20s, most of the people I meet either consider drinking to be the highest form of social activity or have decided that they aren’t really interested in adding to their social circles
Best summary so far!
I love you guys as mentors and entertainers, my parents and my brother for being there for me, and my close friends for putting up with my poor planning skills, constant over-eagerness, and lack of confidence.
Wow I've never related to a comment as much before. Thank you for your transparency.
Would love to see John's response to this! I love when you guys reply to each other's thoughts, you have such different ways of thinking about things and I love getting both points of view!
I just don't know how to talk to people. I don't like going to social events and the people there already have their groups pretty set anyway. When I get put in groups of people I try to talk and be interesting as myself, but when that one interaction is over I don't know how you get to the next one. I don't want to force anyone to talk to me or invite myself along when I don't know if I am welcome so I end up with a few pleasant, but shallow one time interactions with different people who all already have friends. It does not feel very good in the end.
I feel ya. It’s so exhausting at the end.
prinsmarsvin I agree. It's exhausting. But really, it's just work. Try setting goals for yourself. Meet x amount of people a week and ask them for coffee or something. Be honest with them and tell them that you are out meeting new people. If they don't want to be friends with you that's ok. At least you have an acquaintance.
At any success rate you will eventually have a few friends and access to their friends circle.
I moved to a new country, so I have that ice breaker. Be honest with yourself. If you think you need more friends, put in the work.
Same. It's definitely not easy trying to talk to new people and then take the step from aquaintance to friend
Don't talk about shallow things. Skip the small talk. Yes, it will confuse people and you'll get a few nervous glances at first, but when you engage someone and get them talking about their real interests, they'll forget that it's against the rules to talk about things of greater importance than the weather or the local sports team.
It will scare off a lot of shallow people who literally cannot hold a conversation. If you're a viewer of Vlogbrothers, I'm going to assume you're not terribly interested in someone who cruises through life with an effective room-temperature IQ, anyways.
Patrick Lewis you make it sound like it's easy!
"besides sponsoring a 3rd tier english soccer team? n-nothing." I SPIT OUT MY COFFEE.
Such a great response
YES. YES. YES. I so agree with how to make friends as an adult answer. It’s not easy. It takes time. It takes work from both sides. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. It’s okay!!
Happy Esther Day Hank and John!!
Happy Esther Day!!
Have a good day you, you beautiful person. You deserve it.
Right back to you Elino.
happy Esther day!! I share Esther’s birthday, and I think it’s so great to have a day just to celebrate the people we’re close to.
I've often wondered at how easy it is for people to make friends with each other if they already know and like eachother's work. Like presumably you've noticed this at vidcon, that creators can meet and be friends by the end of a short con. That seems consistent with what you're saying, it's easier to make friends if you come into meeting someone with a mutual sense of valuing the other person and what they can do.
Yes to the scheduling time! I've been calling/skyping my parents at the same time every Sunday night since I moved out 8 years ago - it was my lifeline when I was a homesick college freshman, and it's the core of our relationship now that I'm a 26-year-old who lives far away. And when we have to cancel because someone's busy we get in touch or make an alternate plan, because there's that assumption of contact already set up, which helps a ton.
I've found it relatively easy to make friends in college; it's more difficult for me to keep in touch with old friends and new acquaintances.
Lawrence Calablaster I somehow keep in better touch with people who are farther away because I at least see them when they are in town.
I'M GOING TO COLLEGE SOON PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO MAKE FRIENDS
Zawadi Williams remain friendly with your roomate, keep in touch with your orientation group (if your school does that sort of thing), take a few classes that arent lectures that are quite small, if an RA or someone organizes a social gathering that isnt like an event (ie "pizza and ping pong night") go to it
Zawadi Williams If you're going to college, you'll likely be living in a dorm and in that dorm you will be surrounded by a random assortment of people, some of which you will like and some of which you won't so much. Try to make friends with those you like. They sleep really near you and will constantly be hanging out in what is essentially your house, so hanging out won't be too hard. If your college is anything like mine, the university will provide events which facilitate socialization early on for freshmen, and is a good way to get to know people. Another thing that is really helpful is to join a group or club. This will introduce you to people with a similar interest and will give you something to talk about. I also found that being a part of club gives me a sense of identity on my campus. It also will give you something to talk about when you meet someone new and they ask "so what do you do outside of class?" Speaking of class, odds are you'll meet people in some of your classes through group projects or small talk. It's good to befriend those people, because then you can study with them for tests, which will make studying more fun and will help your grade. Mostly, I would say, just try to be open to new experiences and say yes to everything (that you are comfortable with. Don't be pressured into doing anything you don't want to do so you'll seem cool) and you'll find friends along the way.
Meeting friends in college was seemingly impossible for me. But being a commuter certainly had a lot to do with this lol.
Happy Esther Day, friends!!! I love the phrase “joyful labor”... that seems like a good summary of friendship. Because it *is* work, but it is also fun and caring and kind. I am happy to put in that work for my friendships even when it is hard. And I am so, so grateful for the people in my life who are willing to help and work with *me* in return. dftba.
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Relationship between me and my siblings actually got better as soon as we stopped living in the same house... Pretty weird but true
Victoria Arutyunova I don’t think that’s weird 😏 Familiarity breeds contempt. I experienced the same thing with my brother.
Victoria Arutyunova That’s not weird at all. It happens to pretty much everyone.
This is why I bought my own place, even though building a cabin and living on mom's farm would probably be a little easier on the finances.
Wingedshadowwolf Yeah, there are other forms of peace of mind that are greater than (or equal to) financial. 😜
Not weird at all, experienced the same thing with my own family :)
IMO, it's easier to make friends when you're a kid because you're stuck in a box all day every weekday with people who have (approximately) the same amount of power as you. As soon as either 1) you're not forced to see each other constantly or 2) there is a power imbalance, friendships become almost impossible to form. I was super awkward and weird but I made friends in school just by dint of seeing them everyday. I was able to make friends at work for the same reason. Now that I work from home, I have... one friend?
I do understand the idea of not valuing people as much, though. When you're still in the box, you have to make do with what you've got (and you'd better not make enemies or you're stuck with them for 4-12 years). Once you're out of the 'box', and you can theoretically make friends with anyone, it's easy to discard people and be discarded and pretend that's okay.
So, the question isn't "how do I make friends". It's "how do I make people believe I matter"?
Going Spaceward You start mattering when you allow others people to matter to you! It's so simple that we refuse to comprehend it. It's like when John said, "What matters to you defines your mattering"
More like, How do make people believe they matter to me?
Pearl Alex I guess with the little things. Call once in a while. Listen to them, not just hear. Stop making excuses to spend time with them..The little things
Or, even better “how do I best let another person know that they value to me”.
One of the weirdest things to me in my adult life is how I treat people like friends, but their inner circle is usually already many friends and family and I get booted out at a point (usually when the person finds a significant other) or never get through in the first place. It becomes a one way street, and once I stop doing the driving the interactions completely stop. I've had good acquaintance relationships--better than nothing--but it's not a satisfying situation to not have anyone want to be a close friend.
Happy Esther Day, everyone. This is one of my favorite parts of our community.
Pearl127 Me too!
Yes!!
Am I the only one who thinks that, as we get older, even if we want to make friends, there's a part of us that thinks friendship is juvenile? And that prevents us from making friends? It's easier for kids because for them, friendship is the coolest thing ever.
I think that's so true! Somewhere along the line, we lose track of the fact that friendship is, if not _the_ coolest thing ever, certainly in the top 5. Or we think that adults aren't "supposed" to value friendship, so we _try_ to value other things more highly.
I think you're over analyzing it. Kids make friends easily because the circle of individuals they interact with is small, direct, consistent with lots of time for maintaining those relationship. I think that last part is where it breaks down for adults.
In part, perhaps, because we (society at large) don't do a good job of making it clear that friendships need to be a priority in our lives. Saying yes to friendships and doing the work to maintain them often means moving schedules around, saying no to other things, and making time when, before, that time was just available by circumstance or school schedule or what have you.
That's it, I was never able to define/categorize the way I felt about other ppl, neighbors, coworkers... etc, but you just did, I think I do value them pretty quickly. It's rarely mutual but when it is, I connect better with them and friendship happens. It does make sense. Damn you Hank, you did it again.
Ugh, I have been having such a hard time with friendship in adulthood. My husband and I will often say that we need more friends or new friends or whatever (most of our old friends have either moved away or have recently had children and therefore became a lot less available). He kept suggesting that I go out to meetups and things, and I kept saying that that sounded exhausting and I didn't want to go hang out with random strangers all the time. Eventually I realized that he wanted more friends in the sense of having more people to do stuff with (see movies, play board games, go drinking, etc.). I wanted more friends in the sense of having people I was close to who I could talk to regularly and share details of my life and hear about theirs in return. Hanging out with random strangers in adulthood is pretty easy, as long as you're able to get out the house and go do something. It's the valuing one another and maintaining closeness that is so, so hard these days.
I will say that I do think a big part of it is finding someone who is enough in the same "life stage" or situation as you to the point where your schedules are easier to mesh. My aforementioned friends with small children were such good friends before, but now we are never available at the same time. I'm in pharmacy school and I work part time. The times when I'm available are usually later in the evenings, which is great for my few childless friends. But for the ones with toddlers, that's when they're getting the kids in bed. Also, if we spend time together, either the kids have to somehow be present or else they have to find a sitter. Meanwhile, they all seem to spend tons of time with each other, because all the moms with small children have schedules that match up, and when they get together, their kids can just play together while the moms hang out. It's just really hard sometimes to maintain that friendship when the times we're available and the things we're available for are so often so different.
"Relationships are work, do the work" Love love love this
Lesson to learn in messed up 2018: DON’T BE OFFENDED BY EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE. As a student I get to interact with loads of people on a daily basis and what I’ve seen is that people have such strong and rigid opinions about anything from a baguette to the governmental policies. Respect others opinions and be flexible. It isn’t always that what you think is correct. Make room for others’ opinions. Honestly I think that’s the best way that people can learn to value each other
Riya So true! I think we can learn to listen and value how people see the world and why.
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I've wondered if this can be overdone. I find many times that just accepting as person's opinion leaves me with nothing to add to the conversation.
E.g. You think "x"? Ok, I'm ok with that, I don't have to agree or disagree. (Oh crap they're waiting for me to say something)
perhaps to think about it a different way, is it the holding of different opinions that gives people a reason to converse?
Jeremiah Baker oh no I don’t mean that. I meant that instead of just refuting someone’s opinion on something we should listen to their side of the story and not necessarily agree but rather discuss it over. It’s so often that we hear just one side of the story
E.g. John kicked the dog. The opinion one forms here is John is just cruel
But saying John kicked the dog because the dog bit him. Then John is just defending himself.
So what I mean is that don’t assume stuff unless you know the entirety of it. And to know the entirety listening and discussing are crucial
Esther day is also my birthday, I have a huge party, it's my once a year party almost 100 people typically join in an the whole party I get drunk an tell everyone individually why I love an appreciate them
Kyuubiawesome
Happy Birthday! Sounds like good-natured fun!
Kyuubiawesome Happy Birthday! 🎂🎉🎈🎊🎁
Happy Esther- and birthday! :)
Mine too, 50 this year and totally ignored it.
Thank you for all the well wishes! Yall didnt have to spread the positivity but you did!!
I’m 16 and I’m not an adult yet. I’ve always had problems making friends. I hope it only gets better
Same tho
Wow I was totally like this! I found that college was a way better environment for making friends than high school, although I don’t know if any of that applies to you. I feel like I had the same experience of friend making in high school as I do now as an adult, so at the least you’re getting some experience points that will be handy later.
In college the difference was a lot like what Hank is saying: people cared what I thought and cared that my immediate experience was good. In high school I got sorta ignored, I guess? The best thing I can say is that, as Hank is saying, pay attention to those around you instead of ignoring them back as is the usual thing to do.
It does
NOT
As a 16 year old also I feel like I'm terrible at making friends because I value peoples appreciation of me too much and they don't do the same back and then it gets a little awkward, so i give up on the friendship thing altogether. So, hopefully that is a thing that I can grow out of.
The way you explained this has shed a whole new light on how I think about friendship... Thank you
i love how not only was the question not answered, but also the title of the video led us to believe that it would be, yet hank only devoted roughly 50% of the video to that question because he was answering other questions to get to the point of the video.
Happy Esther day!! The comments are so pure, this is why I love Nerdfighteria!
Happy Esther Day! I LOVE NERDFIGHTERIA! ❤️
We were just talking about this the other day with one of our adult daughters (she's 21). I moved to Minnesota when I was 25 years old, and while I found it easy to get along with people at work (they were work friends), I didn't have friends outside of work. So I tried things like taking Open U classes, doing things that were interesting to me, but that really didn't work. The problem was that most of the people I encountered were born and raised here. They had large extended families, and friends going back to pre-school. They didn't *need* more friends. My college friends who moved to cities full of transient people, like Washington D.C., had tons of friends. They were meeting people who were all interested in making connections, too. It was sort of like that first week in the college dorm, where EVERYONE was friendless, and looking to make connections. My feeling is that everyone has a limit on the number of people they can maintain relationships with, and once you hit a certain point, you may meet someone you like a lot, but you simply don't have room in your life for more relationships. I have met and made friends as an adult, but it wasn't through doing something I was interested in, it was from doing something I was *passionate* about. I wasn't looking for friends when I was joining these groups, but I was looking for people to talk to about these passions. From there, I made friends. As for finding a mate, I did that the old-fashioned way: by placing a personal ad in a newspaper.
Even 4 years later, this had an impact on my life. I have been procrastinating on answering messages from friends for months (literally). This video gave me the push I needed to answer them and get back in touch. Thank you!
I love you guys. Your combined wisdom and knowledge has impacted my life so much and I'm so greatful for vlogbrothers and crash course.
Never been this early!
Edit: this opened my eyes in many ways. I'm living faraway from home and left all of my friends behind and it has been difficult to make friends here and this video puts things into perspective. Thanks Hank!
I recently got back in touch with my childhood friend. We've been pretty estranged for the past 10 years or so, but I just decided to reach out to her one day and now I'm happy to report that we are actively working on getting our friendship back on track. It has its challenges, as we are two very introverted and anti-social people, but we are putting in the effort. I would be willing to bury a body for her and it brings me much joy to know that she knows that too. Relationships are hard work, but in the end they are truly worth it.
I am also on the way of becoming great friends with my nerdfighter penpal. We got paired up after buying the Nerdfighter Penpal Club perk during P4A 2016 and we have been steadily building a friendship ever since. We are going to meet up in person in 25 days so that is very exciting. Bygonya, if you happen to see this: Happy Esther Day! I'm hesitant to say that I love you as we have never talked face-to-face, but I like you very much and I appreciate the fact that you are in my life.
Oooh boy. You’re making me question my relationship with my parents. Great. Well, happy Esther day everyone! I love being a part of this community!
well that last part hit close... it really sucks when you want to pour that devotion onto someone who doesn't feel the same way. and there's nothing one can do about it...
happy esther day, love yall
Yeah, it's so disappointing, but it's important to try, you won't find a person who appreciates your efforts uless you make some
Yeah, it sucks. Last year I had an amazing team at Uni, but when the year ended our group chat went silent. I lost count how many times I wrote "hey, guys! Anyone wants to have some burgers!" and nobody answered.
Yea, welcome to most of my adult friendships the past 5 years now.
And my friends didn't even have kids or big career steps or anything. They just curled up into themselves. I guess once you pass 35 there just isn't enough energy left after work to live anymore for a lot of folks.
You can only be told no for so long before you just stop bothering to ask.
Michael Zaite but that’s so sad.. is there any way to prevent that? A certain type of friend to choose instead of others? A certain attitude to have? I just graduated and as people around me get into relationships I already see this process starting
Honestly the way the US economy is going, I don't think so. Work until you collapse, sleep, repeat seems to be the order of the day.
"Love is not free." I'm going to spend a lot of time thinking about whether this is profound or wrong.
wardm4
I always thought love was free to receive but costly to give. In short, love is sacrifice. When both parties sacrifice, then both also receive which makes one realize that you don’t lose much
I'm of the opinion that nothing is truly free. If you wish to be loved, for someone to desire your existence, then you need to show that you are valueable. This need not be money or power. It can simply be interesting ideas that challenge the mind, or being really pleasant to be around, having admirable qualities, etc. You need to show that you matter. That takes effort, time, perphaps even a bit of peace, but it does cost something. Sure does sound wrong though...
I've just finished uni, my home friends have moved on and my uni friends are spread over the country. The struggle is real
Hi Hank. I think it's cool that you and Katherine and John are so open about yourselves and your family, even though it must be hard sometimes. I'm in my early 20s, and there aren't a lot of people who talk about what it's actually like to be an adult and who get as real as you do. Thank you for helping me feel a little less lost
I love this community, happy Esther Day!
I think it's harder to make friends when your older because most people by that time have already established their social circle which makes it more difficult to integrate strangers into your circle, if you do make friends then it's often only superficial. The reality of the situation is that if you've haven't established strong friendships (preferably from childhood) by the time your 25-30 then your going to face a pretty dim future.
Happy Esther Day! I don't know any of y'all personally, but I want to say a big I LOVE YOU to the Nerdfighteria community at large . . . y'all have definitely made a positive impact in my life. Thank you!
Hank, by chance I traveled to visit family half the US away on Esther Day this year. It was for a funeral for a departed grandparent, but it was a good reunion. I hadn't seen any blood relatives in years. It ended up being the best trip to see family I've ever had. My closest family has always had severe problems with drugs and abuse. It was an incredible treat when I flew in and was told my sister had been clean of substances for ten months. I hadn't talked to her for five or six years. She apologized for her misdeeds, the stealing and lying and general bad sisterhood. I was receptive, which was a challenge for me. We have a relationship that has been blessed by Esther, I feel like. Just good timing 🙂
I learned in a big way last year that a lot of the people I valued and did a lot for... didn't value me back. And it did suck. And my confidence suffered a lot. And it's been a lot of work to get back to a place where I actively am trying again. I'm just more cautious because of it, and realize I have a lot of walls. Not sure what to do but keep trying... with my eyes a little wider open.
I know what you mean, just happened to me a couple months back. I feel fucking devastated.
Eeeee thank you for answering my question about a cute Orin story! Also happy Esther Day everyone ❤️
Happy Esther Day!
Oh my god HANK thank you so much for this. This gives so much clarity to some things I've been thinkin' about lately. I feel like so often we have people we call our friends, but who really aren't that invested in being our friends. And it can be really lonely. I think it's really important for us to think more seriously about how we foster and keep connections. Loneliness is a terrible epidemic for so many people, and especially elderly people, but also apparently it's effecting younger generations a lot. I think we really need community but also to consider how we reach out to others, and those we only know minimally too.
Jesus, Hank, thank you for so powerfully reframing the "making friends as an adult" question! It's a problem I've been mulling over as I've been getting older & I feel like something really clicked.
Conversation is best (I think). I talked with somebody just the other day in the library & how she wants to make a book talking about mythology. I offered help in what mythology I know. So I think the good way is just talking.
Not currently. Im going to be attending real soon though. I didnt sign up for a summer semester. You?
R Q I'm 20 I hate being this stupid age.
R Q why did you ask if I was in college?
R Q I hate cursing so it was good you didn't go that far. I just hate being 20. I would rather be 21 right now. I just hate the number.
happy esther day. i love you guys
"But I actually don't think that it is harder! I think that we just forgot how hard we used to work for it." Interesting thought. Hank, i love the way your mind works, i love that you care about important things.
You and John are precious people and we’re so lucky to have you in our lives. ❤
Wow, this completely describes my issue with making friends now that I'm an adult in a way that I hadn't even consciously realized. Thank you as always, Hank, for being so thoughtful and deep with what you talk about in your videos.
I have a lot of experience with both of the big questions you addressed. I immigrated--completely alone--when I was twenty-four, leaving all my family and friends 8,000 km away. So keeping in touch with family and making new friends as an adult are both skills I've absolutely had to hone very carefully over the years.
I would argue that the biggest asset that can help you to form friendships as an adult is genuine curiosity. Curiosity will help motivate you to do the work of finding interesting people. Curiosity will--as Dale Carnegie so astutely observed--help you to be a better partner in conversation. Curiosity will help you feel sincere appreciation for what other people have to say and offer, thus making it easier to follow through on Hank's own astute advice about the need to value other people. Another really important ingredient to forming meaningful bonds of friendship with other adults is allowing yourself to be a bit vulnerable. Friendships grow strong when the friends need one another on some level, but admitting that you need another person is a vulnerable act. It seems that most adults view their independence as a key feature of their adulthood, so they have a hard time allowing themselves to depend on one another. Now, to be clear, I'm not saying you should be "needy" and place onerous demands on your friends' attention or dump your proverbial handbag out in front of everyone. But real closeness absolutely does require you to lower your defenses in a way many adults struggle to do. In this respect, I think one of the biggest challenges I've had to overcome as an immigrant has also been a certain sort of advantage; being alone in a foreign land makes it hard not to sincerely need your friends.
And both of these points tie in nicely with Hank's comparison between forming friendships as an adult and as a child. When you think about the differences between children and adults, it's hard to find two more significant differences than curiosity and vulnerability. Children are inexhaustibly curious and undeniably vulnerable. Of course correlation doesn't prove causation, but I think the case is strong for both of these factors.
As to the other question of staying in touch with family far away, I would say Hank's advice is mostly spot on. I would just add one small modification that the scheduling doesn't always need to be explicit. I see my family once every two or three years, so keeping in touch across that distance is a really important challenge for us. We don't have regularly scheduled phone calls on a fixed day and time, although I can see that being necessary for some people with especially hectic lives. It's enough for us to keep one another informed about our regular schedules--when we get home from work, what activities we do every week, when we like to go to sleep, etc., and of course to filter that through the difference of six time zones. For example, my mother and I know that she's driving home from work when I'm relaxing before bed, so we can reliably call each other in that time window. And if I happen to miss her call because I'm out late on a date or something, she knows I'll call her back during the next window that we're both free. My family and I have succeeded in staying very close with this sort of informal scheduling for regular conversations, and we explicitly schedule Skype calls with extended family for holidays and special occasions.
p.s. As a teacher, I think this moving TED talk is worth revisiting for Esther Day--particularly the portion where this link starts:
czcams.com/video/Xe2nlti47kA/video.htmlm49s
Your tweet was right. This is a great video.
Hank (and John), I love you. Not in a personal way, but I greatly appreciate how you've positively impacted my life and other's lives through this community.
"Relationships are work, do the work!" Thank you John. Claps for you.
Happy Esther Day Nerdfighters. Love you all.
I think as adults...or honestly just for me, it is harder to make friends because I can trust less of people, sometimes because of my own past experiences, sometimes because the circumstances call for caution. I do value their actions, sometimes my boss and colleagues that but I don't wanna be friends with them, because mixing work with friendship is a usually a terrible idea because of colleagues relationships and honestly when I don't love my work, I don't wanna be reminded of my work off-hour, so I already dont feel like I want these ppl to be in my life anymore already? And I guess maybe that's why ppl originally suggest to go out more, because different circumstances provide better or more comfy conditions to maybe trust, or feel freer to just make friends or not. Maybe ultimately is just finding a hobby, because it provides the most easy-to-trust environment when it's just other people with the same interest? No ulterior motives, no forced obligation and whatnot? That's been how it is for me, at least.
I really appreciate the alternate to sending Christmas cards that Esther Day provides: a day in summer to snail-mail expressions of platonic love to friends & family when it is unexpected and can really be taken in by the receiver. I think I've said before: I can't really say I *love* Hank or John or Nerdfighters in general (except my fellow Nerdfightin' husband :) ) but I surely do appreciate, like, respect and care about you guys. Thank you for all you do.
I randomly got this video recommended at the exact right time because I'm in currently in a limbo between leaving a place where I had many friends and going to a place where I know no one. Turns out that I already figured out the answer just from being aromantic and having an innate drive to invest in friendships with people I have a platonic crush on. Now to practice making friends with people I don't have a "crush" on
Ayy I'm also aromantic
Happy Esther day. I always tell my close friends and family I love them and show them how much they mean to me so I’m going to take a moment to tell you, Hank and John, and the nerdfighters on this channel.
John, I love you because you enforced the to myself and millions of other people that at a young age my feeling were not only real but important and these big things I was going through were actually big and I shouldn’t let be tell me they weren’t. As an adult you helped me deal with the fact their bad parts of my brain that are completely real and also that there are million beauty things about the world if only you choose to explore them.
Hank, I love you because you constantly remind me that if you love something love it with everything you’ve got. That if you really want something that you may have all your energy into ten things at once but all those things can be awesome. You’ve taught me that not being exceptional at everything you do is not only okay but likely.
You’ve both taught me that while there areas a million things to take seriously there are million more to just joke about. That if you want to write a book, make videos, be a teacher, have a secret pet snake, then do it. Not only did you teach me all these things but you’ve taught it to millions of other people who have gotten friends, roommates, and even life partners out of all of this just because we all love you two.
I hope everyone has an amazing Esther day and feels the love all through out it. DFTBA.
There's a specific day to celebrate platonic love???
Awsamazing Eden aw yessss. Esther Day!
Awsamazing Eden
its esther day dude
It be Esther day
Sound like yesterday
But most importantly
It want to bless your day
You should watch all the Esther Day videos from the beginning, it's so worth watching.
Yes! That gives me so much joy!😍❤
Happy Esther Day!
I regard making a friend outside of work as one of the biggest achievements of recent years. For me, part of the difficulty was the uncertainty of my job. I felt, "Why should I make friends when I'm just going to leave in a few months?" But I sat down next to this person and all these years later, she is one of my closest friends.
As I watch this video, my best friend from college (which ended five years ago) is driving 5 hours to come visit me for the weekend. This just hit home to me how much I appreciate her. She puts in the effort. We take turns every couple of months driving to visit each other, because our continued friendship is worth scheduling a time to put forth the effort to be in the same physical space. I am so grateful for Ashley.
I love your advice videos! Agreeing on other people's intrinsic importance is such a good way to see it!! I agree with your view on instagram on the matter now! Like yeah we go and search people up online but I guess sometimes we need to stop ourselves and focus on the basics of their character and your own. Not with feeding our ego's and comparing.
All the Nerdfighters, I love you.
Chaitanya Singh ^
I don't know you, but I love you too!
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Every video I watch on this channel makes me smile. I like to appreciate how profound the little things are.
Thank you. I'm back in my hometown for the summer, and I keep finding myself spending hours on the internet without interacting with people. Thank you for reminding me to put work into the relationships that matter to me.
I think Hank's theory about adult friendships might apply in some cases but I feel like it misses the mark. I don't believe that adults work less to maintain or create friendships. As an adult I work much *harder* to maintain and create friendships. I'm sure a lot of adults can relate to this. As an adult I have to meticulously plan how to stay in contact with childhood/high school friends.I put myself out there *more* and search for potential friends all the time. I have to navigate around a regimented schedule that unlike school, doesn't intrinsically consist of social interaction with my peers.
Yes, maybe I'm a bit more choosy when it comes to who I include in my social circle, but that doesn't map onto less effort or willingness to value other people. Hank's theory also totally discounts how much harder it can be to make friends as a marginalized person. I don't go up to every random person and see them as a potential friend. Frankly, as a queer trans person there is a probability that many random people think there's something wrong with me. Making myself vulnerable might pose a literal threat to my safety. I can't assume value the way I did as a kid because that's simply not how adult social interactions work.
The tone of this video came across a little judgemental. As if to say "maybe you'll make more friends if you put in more effort to see value in other people." This assumes 1.) I'm not already doing that 2.) Doing so will lead to friendship as opposed to a scary interaction with a bigoted person. You can attempt to see the value in others as much as you want but if you are marginalized in some way (and I'm sure this applies to identities outside of sexuality and gender) then there is already a built in percent of humanity that will *never* see the value in *you*.
How are you gonna make friends if you don’t give people a chance and just assume the worst?
"This messed up 2018" cute from 2020 haha
this cuts straight into it. I applaud you for not beating around the bush. Happy Esther day!!!
this is one of the most important things I've ever heard in my life. Thank you Hank.
I think it really has to do with how we conceptualize community. I think that in most (capitalist) countries the nuclear family is the main unit. The emphasis we have on romantic love, coupled with a 40hr + work week, supports a structure where most people have time for their job, and less emotional energy ready to give to others (which is often taken up with their romantic partner). So people outside of this paradigm find it hard to make friends, and people inside the paradigm will be less likely to search out or try to find others. I think we gotta reconceptualize what community looks like!
Yes, this is exactly the problem. Great insight!
I know I don’t say this enough but, I love you, Nerdfighteria
ShawnGuy +
Thanks for the highly insightful breakdown of what friendship is and how to really build it.
Definitely something to thing about - it may not be the exact answer or the perfect solution, but it’s a really great perspective on a difficult issue that a lot of different kinds of people experience.
Watching this video in Nov 2020, and hearing that 2018 was messed up... Makes me wonder what would be the response now.. @vlogbrothers
I dunno...I had hell making friends as a kid (and it's damn near impossible now). :/ And "putting [yourself] out there" when you live in a rural area is pretty much impossible, especially when you're a queer Pagan living in the Bible Belt (and don't get me started on the political differences...) and the locals hate outsiders. On the rare occasion I see old school friends, it's either a few minutes of incredibly awkward conversation or watching them spot me in public spaces only to not-so-subtly change their route to avoid having to say hello (I try not to take it too personally as I've done the same thing because it was one of those days where I just didn't want to people one bit more than absolutely necessary and a painfully awkward conversation would have exhausted that day's people-ing limits).
Unfortunately my efforts to become part of online communities usually wind up with me becoming a lurker because even in groups of people with similar interests I feel incredibly out of place. (Sometimes said online community turns out to be just horrid--dictatorial mods, members just being awful to one another, etc.) I guess it's hermitage for me after all.
"I think we forgot how hard we used to work at it" that's an excellent point. I think we're also more easily disappointed, or possibly more easily discouraged by disappointment. When I was a kid, finding out that someone didn't like x thing wasn't a big deal, and having an awkward moment with someone didn't make me want to run away screaming and not talk to them anymore. But now, those things are like "guess this isn't going to work out then." It's good to be able to recognise that so I can try and fix that behaviour in the future, so thanks for that.
I never thought you and John looked alike until this video. Wow, you guys ARE brothers.
Also I totally agree. It’s a lot harder now to find people that love you and aren’t in competition with you.