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3 BEST SLEEPING BAGS FOR EVERY BUDGET - The internet was RIGHT!
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- čas přidán 18. 11. 2020
- Use coupon code ‘DAN15’ at Backcountry to get 15% off your first purchase on backcountry.com (exclusions may apply)
Kelty Cosmic Down 20 bit.ly/2JfuPRH
Thermarest Hyperion 20 bit.ly/3lZS3Kd
Western Mountaineering Alpinlite bit.ly/34AYblw
If an item does not show up on backcountry's website, it is likely temporarily out of stock.
Some of the other gear I recommend:
BIG AGNES TIGER WALL
MARMOT SUPERALLOY bit.ly/2VIIVij
NEMO TENSOR INSULATED
THERMAREST XTHERM bit.ly/2yuEi2A
THERMAREST UBERLITE bit.ly/2LPwnQj
BACKPACK
MED KIT
RAIN JACKET
CHAIR bit.ly/3eecrD1
NECK GAITER bit.ly/2WVkZZK
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best sleeping bags for backpacking. down sleeping bags. how to choose a sleeping bag. best budget sleeping bag. for the money. cheap sleeping bag. expensive sleeping bag.
It’s entirely possible I took a nap on the table..
I'm going with Yes on this one.
I would like to see a video of that...
@@johneason6540 That would have been a really cool outro clip!! Hint!!
Your promo code doesn’t work for the exact bags you featured?
Ok, without sounding like I have a mustache and a van...you should have a giveaway of some of your favorite things - THAT YOU HAVE USED!! Like, I think your fans would love to get something that you have used and like.... Ok, I'm going to throw on some shades and hide now... 🙃🙃🙃
As a resident of Western Canada I can tell you that down doesn't need to be "wet" for its performance to be hampered, down is only good for maybe 2 months out of the summer and 2 months in the winter here when it's either too hot or cold to be humid. I switched to synthetics and they are way more consistent across all weather conditions.
I hear this a lot ... "why are you wet in the first place? Does synthetic insulation work as well wet as they say? Is it even relevant?" Ok so I'm not saying all synthetics are created equal either but yea it happens, it did to me. Yes it worked better than you'd expect. So yes it's a relevant argument.
Here's the story. It was my first time doing a longer backpacking trip a few years ago. Up to that point I did short one night trips locally in PA. Then my buddy talked me into a 3 day trip in NH on the pemi loop. I had decent gear but nothing special. I had an osprey Atmos backpack that for some reason I assumed was water proof. Up to that point I only hiked in nice weather so I really had no idea. I had no pack liner. It had a forecast of cloudy. Pfft. It rained for 3 days straight. 50 degree days and 30s at night. Rain, sleet, hail, and crazy wind non stop for 3 days. My gear was drenched. Yup horrible rookie mistake. I know better now but still, it happened. So now I go to climb in my tent with me gear saturated and it's 30 something and windy. My sleeping bag was saturated and so we're my spare layers. I done fucked up. I thought I was gonna get hypothermia and die. So I put on every wet later I had, crawled in my sleeping bag, and hoped for the best. All my gear was sythetic. No down gear at all. Well next thing I know I was over heating, sweating actually. I pealed layers off. I was amazed. So yea it works. Or at least my fairly cheap marmot nano 25 did. I now do things smarter and use pack liners and such and I do carry down bags and a down jacket. But if i think there is a chance of crazy weather like that again I'll bring synthetic stuff just in case. It literally did save my life.
I find it funny we as a community say "cotton kills" because it stays wet and makes you cold so don't wear it. Down stays wet and makes you cold when wet but it's the industry standard? Lol food for thought. Yea down is the most compressible and light so I use it too. But is it really that crazy or far fetched to say synthetic insulation is good for the same reason sythetic clothing layers are good? Why do so many consider this taboo? And if you can rock down in the rain safely then I guess you can rock cotton too... Just saying. 🤷
Here in Western Oregon we have a name for down bags: sponge. Roughly 8 months a year is rains or snows, and the snow is generally very wet. Down bags are fine for overnight, but they speak up the moisture over a the days or so. Synthetic bags don't some up the moisture as quickly and they dry much faster--sometimes just through body heat.
Yes, I've spent more than one night in a wet bag, both down and synthetic, it's Type 2 fun at best. But a synthetic it's more reliable and lighter weight than a soggy down bag. Each bag has a purpose, there is no universal truth other than the ratings are sketchy at best.
Also, some synthetic bags are almost as compactable as down.
$150 for a budget sleeping bag bro I thought budget meant like McDonald’s budget not Red Robin budget 😂
0:14
Just think, $150 is like one night in a hotel, you can sleep many times in a sleeping bag
@@jennad6099 He is braindead.. He can't think
@@jennad6099 absolutely, I usually sleep in my rental cars to safe money on my trips and a 200$ sleeping bag has safe be so much money that I can do more trips. Sacrifices must be made
I’m sayin
Dan budget: $200
My budget: $20
i lclicked the links saw the first one at around 150 i though wow high end clicked next link and saw price and though oh
Yeah, I would call a $150 bag top end, and for that price it better be comfort rates for 0°C.
Lol this was me today bought a 160 dollar bag better keep me warm
I backpack in the CO Rockies. I've had high end +/-15 deg down bags 'wet out' (fail) in the 25-35 deg F range numerous times - it doesn't take "completely wet" to fail - and have gotten cold as a result . I have well ventilated tents (hilleberg, triplex). I'm not sure if I'd say synthetic is 'out' in that temp range. I think light down bags can be really bad in that range. For that range or colder, I've found Feathered Friends bags with WP material work much better than Western Mountaineering bags or like with 'less-than WP' outer material. I use a 0 deg FF bag with WP material from 40 deg F down to 5 deg (with a down jacket when it gets super cold). I use a Marmot bag with WP material for colder temps. There's a range there I'd be very cautious going with a light weight down bag. Just my experiences, and don't get me wrong - I like Dan a lot - just have to disagree a little on this one.
Me: *Listens to the prices these sleeping bags
Also me: *Remembering sleeping fairly soundly in freezing weather with a smoking jacket and a poncho liner.
Please don't call the woobie by its government name lol.
That’s when you’ve truly mastered being unbothered is when you can fall asleep outdoors in the winter
🥰 so many memories with the woobie
I love my REI radiant 20. Pro tip for smaller people: larger kids gear works for cheaper.
I love my rei radiant as well. Especially at under $100 for a down sleeping bag. Ive used mine at 33 degrees with minimal layers and a good sleeping pad very comfortably.
If you are highly allergic against down, it does matter immensely. I can only sleep in synthetic, and as long as my family shares a tent with me, they have to use synthetic, too.
i never knew that
Dang I hope you have your own tent now, knowing your limitations
@@jasontesar7325 If we go motorcycle camping, yes, I insisted on my own little tent. If we do car camping, we use a giant house tent. As weight does not matter there, I use a luxury carp bed with a sleep system from Nash. Very plush, but also very heavy.
@@SandraOrtmann1976 motor cycle camping! That sounds like a blast. Sorry about your allergies I’m sure it’s a bummer. 😌
I'm 6' 165lbs, and I've slept warm and cozy without extra layers in sub 20F in my Kelty Cosmic 20. I used the REI Stratus pad, 2.9 r rating, and wore only long underwear. Mid 30's is obviously super comfortable without even trying, but you can definitely be comfortable with it at 20 degrees and slightly below.
I have that kelty. I used it when it got down to 35°F and I was chilly at times, but I was also only in boxers. My wife got it for me as a gift for $120! It’s great for a weekend hike, and it packs pretty small with a STS compression sack. Highly recommend it!
That being said, your videos have cost me a lot of money in upgrades in the past year. I’m $600 poorer as of right now, and I’m panicking trying to think of an excuse to tell the wife why I replaced her gift with something better. I feel like I’ve cheated on her!! 🤣🤣😬
😂😂😂
The synthetic is good for me in the summer. I live in the southeast in a swampy area. The humidity really kills the down. I just have a 50 degree quilt. I have an overstuffed 20 for winter
I was completely and literally soaked in The Great Smokey Mountains in temps down to the fourties’. It rained for 2 days and I slept in a Coleman Qualifoil bag both nights and without a sleeping pad! It’s a terrible comparison but it was a little like sleeping in your own pee. This was my first backpacking trip! I believe that synthetic Coleman sleeping bag saved my life.
First time I had chance to use my Kelty Cosmic 20 was during the Texas freeze when it was hi 30s low 40s inside my home. I found myself removing layers of clothes all the way down to nearly nothing and having to partially unzip the bag before I was finally comfortable and not burning up. I can confidently say this bag would easily do you well down to at least 30 with the right pad and proper clothing. I liked it so much that I bought the 40 recently.
The Kelty Cosmic 20 has served me well.
USA Made, 20 Degree, 800 Fill Down, 1lb 9 oz, Heat Seeker by Hang Tight on the Etsy Website. $130.00! Good luck because he is always sold out but get in line and he can even customize it for you.
These are quilts (top and bottom for hammock)
@@natashawilliamson3694 he also makes a model for attaching to an air pad. He calls it the ground dweller model. I just bought one last week but when he is out of stock you have to write him. It's an amazing quilt that is overstuffed. Besides, a top quilt used in a hammock is the samething and all you do is ad 3 or 4 straps to help keep the air pad in place. Not even neccessary since I been doing it with no problem.
@@SailingCorina awesome. Thank you
ohh nice, i do prefer to support small
Based upon the pictures I can see these quilts are not for me yet you have one and it really is good to 20 degrees? What do you base your recommendation upon?
Western Mountaineering has an impeccable reputation. If maintained properly, people claim 20 years of unquestionable reliability.
Absolutely. Top quality kit. I've got a Bison and I imagine it will stay in the family for years.
I have had mine since 2013 as does my daughter and they are in perfect condition. Mine is the 20 degree bag ultra lite.
ooh Dan thanks for the recommendations. You're the 1st who brought my attention to Western Mountaineering. Just picked up an Alpinlight and Kodiak. They're amazing and a tiny bit roomier for a bigger guy than me. I categorize them as "elvish made" the stitching is flawless. Can't wait to test em out!
Wet performance is important as there are more options than just completely dry or completely wet. Also rain is not the only thing that can get your sleeping bag wet.
I always recommend carrying down bags in a waterproof compression bag. That has saved my skin many many times.
True. Condensation can completely saturate damned near everything in the Cascade mountains for example.
I think with synthetic its more about its ability to dry alot easier then down ifnit does get wet. Also I dont think anyone would be comfortable in a soaking wet bag, but a few days in a dense fog and the down can start to lose insulation value. I like synthetic living in NY. We can get pretty humid in the summer with days of sustained heavy rains at times.
I canoe and synthetic bags are the best choice. I capsized on a river trip and my Sierra Designs bag did the job.
Yes. It's a little disingenuous to pretend in a vid like we take the wetness thing literally, as though anyone would sleep in a bag that is soaked through. But it's not unusual for bags to get a little damp during the night, even if it's from the person sleeping in them.
@@cobbler88 actually, in freezing temperatures like below 20F it's human breath which builds the most moisture. Head and chest zones of the bad can take around 100-150 ml of condensated breath moisture during the night. I think author Just has lack of overnight experience in such temperatures. And sure, $600 is far from the most expensive when talking below 0F bags.
I slept in a wet synthetic bag in a survival situation. It was wet but warm, like sleeping in a pool of my own pee. I did not enjoy it, but I was warm and got some good sleep in spite of the wetness. Synthetic really does work when wet. Had I had down in that situation, I might not have made it.
Same here, rain flooded the tent, then woke up to 4" of snow. Wasn't a survival situation, but we were caribou hunting a day into in the mountains.
It does
"Does it really matter if it's wet? You're not going to want to sleep in it anyways." - YES, it matters! If your bag gets wet and you have no choice but to sleep in it for survival, then it makes a big difference. My point being, it's not about WANTING to sleep in it, it's about NEEDING to sleep in it. If I need to choose between down and synthetic in a situation where I have to stay as warm as I can at night, then I choose synthetic. I know the benefits of down in a good situation are better because it's lighter, very warm, and easily packable, but I'll carry the extra 1lb that is going to matter in a hypothermic situation. This video is excellent though! Thank you for taking the time to do this.
Super happy you included the kelty! I can vouch for it!
The other thing to remember about synthetic insulation: it dries tons faster than down does. So, if your bag does get wet, drying it out can be a factor.
Great point. It's hard to find a great synthetic bag that can compress as well as down though.
And they lose loft at a much faster rate than down bags from repeated compression cycles. Much shorter lifespans on synthetics
I have not slept in a totally wet sleeping bag. However I have slept in low temperature, high relative humidity situations. Or, to put it another way, situations where the dew point is close to to the temperature. This is actually a fairly frequent occurrence in the Appalachian mountains. What happens is that you take your (totally dry) bag out of your pack and the imperceptible perpetration will condense within the insulation before it gets outside the bag. This can cause the down to collapse which of course degrades its value as insulation until it fully dries out again.
Solutions: wear enough layers to pump out enough heat so that condensation happens outside the bag. OR use a vapor barrier liner. OR use a synthetic overquilt. With this last option you will still have dampness in the overquilt, however APEX (especially) and other synthetics as well are far less susceptible to down collapse.
So, down vs synthetic... If you fall into a river and your sleeping bag falls in the water, even if it's "water tight", it's not like water won't slither into the down. Using a down sleeping bag in a WET environment (I don't mean sleeping ON a water stream, more like canyoneering/camping), would be like taking cotton layers to a snow hike.
Good video, Dan. I can attest to the WM bag's quality - even has the employee's name who checked the bag attached. I bought the WM Sequoia (rated 5 degree) semi-rectangular bag and used it a couple of weeks ago in the ADK and the comfort was superb. But I'm gonna sell it because my future hikes will not require such a warm bag.
Just reviewed the Patagonia 20 degree bag. I think it is right in line with the WM quality (and price)
The Alpinlite by Western Mountaineering is worth every penny. Simply the best. In fact, I just packed it up. Heading out this weekend.
I recently bought one and for me it’s worth every penny. One thing Dan should have mentioned is the continuous baffle construction of the bag. I can easily move the down around to where I need it. If it’s really cold than I move it to the top and opposite when it’s warmer. Also, I believe that WM sources it’s down from one farm and don’t pluck the feathers. They collect the best plums from the nest of nesting geese hence the low yield and high cost. When you take into account all the details I’m actually surprised the bags don’t cost more!
Western mountaineering rocks ! 😉 AND made in the USA 🇺🇸 they also list EN test ratings on their website if you dig deep enough. I call it “my other bear bag” cause when I get in it I just want to stay there and hibernate. 😂 And its Amazing to me how people will spend $450 on an Arctryex jacket but think 600 is too much for a sleeping bag 🤪
@@trailheart1863 I love both arc and WM. Honestly none of my WM pieces have ever given me a problem, but some of my arc has. A wonderful company that only makes quality
I sleep in hammocks so I use a UGQ Bandit quilt but I respect all you sleeping bag people out there
@@happycamper1430 I’m thinking about picking up a UGQ bandit XL, is it worth the 500?
I'd love to see a video like this be comparing quilts!
Overlanding noob here. I own that last bag... the Kelty. Couple things... I was cold in the 40's with this bag the first night I used it. On the second night we layered up with blankets in the roof top tent, which was cumbersome, cause well... the weight of all the blankets (and a 60lbs Shephard mix) was a bit much, even in a three person Tepui. On the third night, my wife and I made concerted efforts to zip up our bags completely, and even try and use the cranium hood. The effectiveness of the sleeping bag was tremendously better. Our body temps, kept in the heat, which helped make sleeping with less extra blankets manageable. Sure, we were still layered inside...but not as much as the first night. Suppose my point is, make sure you use the bag properly... regardless of the temp rating.
I have the kelty 20 and I can’t recommend that bag enough. It has some water repellent coating so if it’s humid it will not bunch up. It’s great for northeast 3 season backpacking. My friend also bought one and he absolutely loves it too. One recommendation I would make is wait till they go on sale and I promise you won’t regret it. I’m not an ultralight guy either so factor that into my opinion.
For budget oriented people there are down sleeping bags on aliexpress for 60-130$. Brand is aegismax. The 10C° small green one, 5C° M2 and 0C° M3 are true to the comfort rating. The down is not the high end treated type but its still goose with good loft. Slept in the small green one rated 10C comfort in 5C with a liner and 2 layer cloths. Was warm. Planing to buy their 0C° one and combine with the 10C° for those rare german nights that are lower than -5C°.
Negatives are long shipping time, 3-6 weeks. The bag smells when new, i read its actually good because its the oil that you smell and its like a natural treatment but I had to air it out 1 weak to make it ok. The smell is very little now. And last the down is good in quality but it is not sourced ethical I assume.
If you want the warmest bag on earth get the Valandre Thor Neo -40°FSleeping Bag.
If you want the second warmest sleeping bag in the world, get the The Feathered Friends Snow Goose -40°F sleeping bag.
If you want the third warmest sleeping bag in the world, get the Western Mountaineering Bison GWS -40 sleeping bag.
The Thor is comfortable at -33°F
The Feathered Friends is comfortable at -28°F
The Western Mountaineering is comfortable at -23°F
Please note:
The Feather Friends will do the the best without a tent or bivy sack out of the three listed, followed next by the Western Mountaineering, lastly the Valandre Thor Neo.
Hope this might help people sleeping in real cold climates✌!
Synthetic will also dry faster. For people who are coming rafting with me who aren’t familiar with dry bags I encourage them to bring synthetic. This way if their dry bag leaks and their bag gets wet it will dry faster than a down bag. Also…rafting…space and weight don’t really matter as much. However, I always use my down bag over my synthetic.
Most people don’t know that most dry bags are not submersion proof and this weakness is even greater when you have flowing water added in the mix. Chances are high that you’ll get water in the dry bag when completely submerged in flowing water…. Ask me how I know!!!! Lol (not really as it wasn’t a great night for a wet sleeping bag)
I have definitely slept in a completely wet sleeping bag. It was horrible. The rain came gushing down one night and actually formed a NEW river that went right through the middle of my tent, and the water volume was so much it actually went up OVER the bathtub floor. I still carry down, because that experience was rare, but I am mindful of it's shell, and so forth.
Thumbs up for high-quality bags! It makes sense. Although, I woudn't spend 600 on this one... Cumulus Panyam 600 is like 1020grams and has similar comfort (-7°C, 20°F) for half the price.
I have two Western Mountaineering sleeping bags. I have the 20 ultra lite and I love it as does my daughter. We got ours on sale at EMS. Well worth the money. If you want made in the USA you will have to be willing to pay more. We spend most of our time in the White Mt of NH and the weather can be crazy. I don't like being cold and this bag has never failed us warm. Easy to back up too. Cry once.
I'm about to watch it..please keep all the bags with the same exact temperature range so its not apples to oranges more than it needs to be!! Sleeping bags are a little like hiking shoes maybe? Know what I mean?!! Love ya brother and I'm excited to watch it.. you cheer us up Daniel and thats pretty much golden in these covid 19 days. Dare I say it brother..your cozy!!! In a really manly way.
For $600, I hope the down in that bag is responsibly sourced/cruelty-free.
Synthetic is more environmentally friendly and cruelty free. Also I know people who sweat in their sleep so it beneficial to be water resistant and still work if you overheat easily.
My wife "slept cold" up until she turned 50! Hot flashes are a real thing! Hanaha Thanks for the great information
👍🏾✌🏾
I recently bought the Kelty. I can’t find anything wrong with it for that price. A good move from my previous synthetic bag.
It was my first (& only so far) down bag. I’ve been using it for 6 years & haven’t been disappointed in it at all.
Yes I absolutely love this bag too. This is the absolute best that you will get for your money. It’s the Bernie Sanders of all sleeping bags for the people lol.
@@DeepStateYuri Except that the bag actually has a work history, right? 🤣
When I was looking a few years ago, it came down to the Kelty and the Marmot Trestles 20 Eco. Same weight but I was able to get the Marmot for $125 and it packed down well, so I went with it.
@@cobbler88 I love the Kelty bag but it can’t give me basic economic rights or Medicare for all. What’s the coldest temp you had your marmot in?
@@DeepStateYuri So it IS just like Bernie! 🤣
Coldest I had it was in the 20s (F) at Trail Camp on Mount Whitney, 12000 feet up in late September. There was a little frost on the poles of my tent when I woke. Bag did fine. I AM a warm sleeper. I believe I wore midweight top and bottom, and cheap fuzzy socks.
Last July I was at about 8000 feet on Pikes Peak, but it was about 40-50 overnight so no problem there. I left the top unzipped and used it kind of like a quilt. Didn't need base layers to sleep. Just Netflix on my tablet. :)
There IS a 15-degree model out there, but it appears to be a pound heavier and costs more.
Another person here from the Pacific Northwest. There are definitely virtues to synthetic not mentioned in this video, but others commented on. But before everyone eliminates down if the weather is damp, some research is beneficial. Most good sleeping bags that are down treat the bag, or even the down. This NEVER makes it waterproof, or even as thermal as a damp synthetic bag, but not all treatments are equal.
There is one down bag I use most of the year that's down, and that's a Mountain Hardwear Bishop Pass Gore-Tex. While not 100% waterproof, it sheds moisture extremely well. The biggest culprit I come across isn't rain getting through a tent, or through my backpack and into my sleeping bag, it's when it's about 30-35 degrees (F), and the humidity is 100% as you hike, then camp and sleep in the clouds. You wake up in the morning and everything is just saturated, damp, or if below freezing off and on, frosty. That moisture just rolls off the Bishop Pass Gore Tex.
One could of course sleep in a bivy. But sleeping in a bivy, inside a tent, means you have more stuff to carry.
It should be known I own four sleeping bags. Two are down, and two are synthetic. The right tool for the right job kind of thinking. I collected these over several years.
I sell Western Mountaineering and all their bags are great. I’ve actually been to their factory, and the amount of thought they put into every detail is amazing, from the amount of down in each baffle to the cinch cord around the face. They also last forever. My coworker has a bag WM bag that his dad bought in the 70s.
One feature you didn’t mention is the continuous baffles, which wrap around from the top of the bag to the bottom. This means you can actually move the down on the bottom to the top if it’s colder, or move it to the bottom when it’s warmer.
Whether or not it’s worth the price is up to you, but you’d be hard pressed to find a higher quality bag at any price.
I have 2 minus 40 sleeping bags. The synthetic one weighs 25lbs, cost about 350can, takes up the entire back bench seat of my truck when it's in its sack and is very comfortable at minus 40. My down bag cost about 1800can, weighs 4lbs and compresses to about the size of a normal bag in its stuff sack and even at minus 40(I slept in minus 42) it is a furnace. The down bag could take me to minus 55 at least. As for one drying faster than the other? I have my doubts the 25lb bag could dry faster than the 4lb bag in the same conditions. Down has limits no doubt but for cold sub zero sleeping they are very hard to beat. Personally I find it easier to camp in minus 20 than +5 to -5 range.
I'm allergic to down. Yes, it's a real allergy. So even though you don't prefer synthetic, I would appreciate your honest and knowledgeable assessment of synthetic bags.
I love my UGQ bandit quilt.
Right! I have the outlaw it’s superb
Synthetic sleeping bag is good at winter when moisture from sleeper gets in bag and freezes there. You can use thinner down bag as inner bag and synthetic as outer bag. By winter I mean -30C (-22F). After few nights without ability to dry gear it would be miserably in down bag.
I use a WM radiant liner for ultracold trips
"FOR EVERY BUDGET" : starts out with a 600$ bag and then a 200$ one. Bro I might as well stick to blankets and jackets.
Dude, the last bag goes for 129.00...if you can't afford that you need to stop working at Burger King...
Cheap option for you if you can find one. Eurohike 300 Adventurer. Its synthetic so a bit heavier, but a true -3C / 25F rating for £25. 👍 I have one and would recommend for people on a budget.
I have Coleman mummy 0F sleeping bag. 50$. I took it for motorcycle trip in May around US(30days), and it was good: few 32F nights needed layers, but for price? Try it, it’s a great budget option
For all you USA people you can find really good Winter Ultralight Down sleeping bags for $79 on Ebay they are called "Trail Lark Sleeping Bags"
@@johnnyonthespot1665 not a cool thing to say to someone...
I have a ugq 0degree quilt for my hammock and I’ve never seen such loft and attention to detail and quality stitching. I remember paying around 325$ or so about 10 years ago. I don’t see how something could be twice the price as that no way it’s twice the quality
Bought this bag for my grandson on his AT hike. He began February 14th and he was always comfortable.
Regarding wet down vs synthetic sleeping bags: "I suppose in a survival situation, but how often is that going to happen?"
Once too damn many if you don't have the right gear.
Depending on the tent you use, your bag might get wet from condensation during the night, happens to me a bunch of times
@@outdoorandbushcraft39 Exactly. It's not exactly uncommon for a bag to at least get damp. We don't take it literally that a bag actually gets soaked through.
Western mountaineering company and their gear rocks ! Best zipper set up for a bag on the planet. I also have a North Face Blue kazoo that is a great bag too. It’s all about costs, vs warmth, vs weight. Personally I only chose these brands because they offered short versions in addition to long versions.
Hi
I have the kelty two years now. On a therapist foam pad, I used it to 24f with my puffy on.
I have a therapist air mattress now, made a HUGR difference. Down to mid twenties just normal bed clothes. It ways 40oz in a men's long like you had, compresses nicely too. For 200 bucks, I'd recommend it too.
Should do some that are not branded. There are good bags out there that are just as good as the branded versions but at a fraction of the cost.
I can't speak for everyone, but I can't say I've ever encountered such a thing. The one example I would say would be the unbranded titanium cook pot I got on AlliExpress that was a Toaks design knock-off that I've had no problem with whatsoever.
I regularly buy certain gear from the OT line at Walmart, so I'm not a brand snob. But I also recognize that the people who complain about REI selling gear that's no better than cheap stuff, but with brand names, don't really know what they're talking about.
Of course, even the unbranded stuff is branded somehow. Whether it's watches that are $4 before MVMT is added to them and the price goes up $120, or my cook pot, which was Tomshoo when I bought it. Those Asian brands tend to sort of cycle through various names, then begin again.
Good bag comparison. I have 2 lightweight synthetic bags and they are comfortable around 40 to 50 degrees. I will get $600 WM one of these days.
Mind sharing what your two synthetic bags are? Can't use down because of bad allergy and I'm in the market for lightweight synthetic options in preparation for next season.
Dumped a boat over… sleeping bag got wet not soaked but wet enough…. (Realizing that dry bags lie too) it wasn’t comfortable but it was doable. Definitely had to dry out a bit prior to use but it seemed to dry quickly enough… (still damp in places) it was synthetic.
Synthetic all the way me and my buddies like to go cowboy camping where we just have a tarp and a sleeping bag and I woke up at 2-3 to half of my sleeping bag soaked on the outside felt around with my feet to be pleasantly surprised that the inside was warm and dry, and I fell right back asleep and woke up around eight or nine to my bag, entirely wet but I was warm
Yes, I've slept in a completely wet sleeping bag. It sucks and doesn't dry for weeks.
Me too! Mine was a cheapo 4 season synthetic. Enormous when packed. But it got soaked cycling in Norway and it wasn't much above zero, but I still managed to get warm(ish). I'd like to see a test of the hydro-down vs normal down, to see whether the former makes much real difference and whether it can compete with synthetic.
You perspirate while you sleep mate soon you Wet the down and it is less and less insulating...while you sleep. Also in the Winter the water/ sweat stays in the bag as you are packing and walking further.... does it make sense now? So Wet against waterproof up to you ... it also puts your experience on the weekend hiker park.
I got the Kelty cosmic. The purple and white one . It is amazing. So warm and soft . It served me well for 3 years and counting!
I made a Climashield quilt for hiking and dinghy cruising, which I do a lot of each. Rolled the boat one afternoon, and the drybag the quilt was in leaked. After making it to shore, bailing the boat and sorting gear out, I ran the quilt up the mast. It was cool, overcast, humid, with moderate wind. The quilt was only a bit damp after two hours. I slept in it, in fleece that was a bit damp, and I was happily surprised that I did sleep, and well. Yes, the benefit of synthetic is real if there's any chance of gear getting wet. :>)
I bought a winner outfitter sleeping bag in June and i've hiked probably 300 miles with it in the last couple months. It's not super warm i was sleeping out at about 23 degrees and i put my whole sleeping bag inside an SOL mylar bivy and successfully did not freeze to death. Best part? Bag was $35
I've beem using a Montbell Down Hugger 900 fill 1-lb 9-oz (690g) $560. Comfort Rating 23°F. Its been a great bag for me with while layering. I was looking to shave weight and create more room in my backpack at the same time as my other 20° Degree 600 fill mummy bag was too bulky and heavy, weighs over 2 pounds... Tell you what thow, that Western Mountaineering Alpenlite bag looks super nice and has great features, that zipper! If it wasn't for my Montbell, I'd buy that one. There made in San Jose Calif., just 20 minutes away from me. 🇺🇸
The only reason whatsoever that that first bag costs $600 USD is because it's made in "USA". Probably only costs $100 at most to make. Also, no bag on the market rated for backpacking, or any competent hiker would ever use a bag in sub 30⁰f weather without layering. Be it a $600 USD bag, or a $40 USD bag. So the justification for a $400 USD bag over the Kelty is a mute point and non consequential. The kelty bag is probably the best one on the list considering that its rated for the same Temps (which you will layer for no matter what), it is a good wait to fill ratio for an average hiker, and there are WAY cheaper ultralight bags with 20⁰f ratings that are less than even $400 USD. so I would do an ACTUAL video of high, mid, and budget bags because this is a joke. A real budget bag for a beginner is like $60 bucks, not the kelty for $200. And on top of all of that, a synthetic bag is a perfectly good option, down is only really for serious hikers, not amateur. And I've known thru hikers to prefer synthetic over down because of condensation, setting your tent up in the rain, a leak, or anything like that. In which a down bag would lose all its loft after getting wet and do you no good to keep you warm, where a synthetic will still keep you warm even if it's wet.
Down also comes from cruelty to animals (even if 'ethically sourced') and is worse for the environment due to the farming of the birds.
Loft on top of the user is the definitive measure of warmth. That, and the least amount of extra space inside the bag. Fill power affects the compactability of the bag as do the weights of the inner and outer fabric, size (tooth size, number 3 being the lightest, but most fragile normally used on ultralight bags). Two bags of identical design, with the same loft, but with differing fill power down will be equally warm, but the lower fill power down will make for a heavier bag.
Did you mention never to leave them stuffed during storage? Stuffing compresses the down fibers, and the longer they stay compressed, the less likely they are to expand to their original size when allowed to loft. Hang or lay them out flat between trips.
Down vs. synthetics: synthetic bags will be heavier, bulkier, and won't maintain their loft as long as down with repeated stuffing/unstuffing. Note: I used to sell this stuff at retail, so I'm just trying to help, because I like Dan's style (and first name, too!). 😁
Those are some great tips! Thanks!
Dan, I love down sleeping bags and I have no doubt that the bags you reviewed are great picks for their respective price points. But, the bag you pick needs to meet the needs of the weather conditions you expect to encounter. If you go on an extended trip of 4 or 5 days or longer, in damp or very cold weather, a down bag may not be your best choice. After 4 plus days in below 0 F temperatures, a down bag can easily absorb enough moisture to reduce the loft by say 30%, based on my experience, unless you have a good way to dry it out or sleep in a vapor liner, which I find very uncomfortable.
On short trips down is fantastic, but, as the length of your trip extends, down has it's limitations and you need to know how to deal with it. I think you are doing a dis-service by telling people not to worry about moisture being an issue when selecting a sleeping bag.
You should talk to your buddies at UGQ and get them to start making sleeping bags.
I have 2 of the kelty cosmic 20° bags and I'm happy. It had dry down. The women's specific bag is overstuffed and cut different for a women's body. I have both the men's and the woman's bag.
Thanks for the video. Can we please make it a standard to use both *F and *C in videos like this? :-) (I appreciate the mentioning of grams in regards to the weight!)
I myself have a UGQ Bandit (quilt), partly due to Dans review (amongst others). My girlfriend got a 'Seatosummit Spark SpIV' (sleeping bag). Stats: -8*C / 18*F and 880g / 1,94 pounds. Both hers and mine were bought this summer for a big hike and I felt I had to upper hand in regards to quality and loft since mine were handmade by a "small" family business etc. etc. But I must say, hands down, that the Spark IV is one beast of a sleeping bag. The loft in that thing is ridiculous. We laughed every morning when she had to push it into the holster... it's almost impossible because it keeps expanding, lol. It's extremely light compared to how warm it is which also means that it's a very simple sleeping bag. No fancy features. It's just crazy warm. Maybe a little too warm for a summer in the mountains, for my taste at least, but other than that I can totally recommend it. Also it's around the same price as the Western Mountaineering Alpinlite as far as i can tell, so it's quite expensive. Is it better than the WMA? I don't know. I've never heard of it until now.
Bonus info regarding down:
1) According to my "gear-pusher" you need to subtract 100 CUIN from the american values when comparing to european ones due to usage of different standards. I cannot confirm wether or not it's true, but seems to make sense when you look at price vs CUIN (and also how high the values in the states are compared to europe. To my knowledge 950 CUIN is unheard of over here, maybe even borderline physically impossible).
2) When I spoke to UGQ before buying my quilt they actually didn't recommend me to get the highest CUIN they had (850 cuin instead of 950 cuin) which surprised me a lot. I was going for a 5 week hike during the summer, in a possible humid environment, where I didn't know how many showers I would be able to take during that period. Both grease and water is bad for the loft in your sleeping bag/quilt and the higher CUIN your down is, the more sensitive it is to these external factors. The spark IV is +850 cuin (I don't know if it's european or american standard) but it seems more fluffy than the UGQ Bandit that I have (850 cuin american standard - I maxed out on overstuff in my quilt). However the Spark didn't seem to have any noticeable issues keeping its loft during that trip.
So yeah, I don't know how much there is to this, I just thought it was a really interesting aspect since I never thought of a down side (pun intended) to high cuin other than the price. Maybe it's worth taking into account when you make your next purchase?
I agree. Celsius and metric weights please.
I am a slightly warm sleeper, not especially warm, and a male human, but I've certainly slept in the Kelty Cosmic 20 at temperatures below 20ºF at least half a dozen times in the Ruby Mountains, the High Sierra, and the San Rafael Swell.
I wear a 100 weight fleece, wool socks, and underpants. Sometimes silkweight tights. Pretty light stuff for winter backpacking sleeping. And I use a Nemo Switchback closed cell pad with a 2.0 R rating. If I could upgrade one part of the system, it would be a warmer pad, not a warmer bag.
Now I don't recommend the Cosmic 20 below 20ºF; it's really at its comfort limits there. But it's warm enough for good sleeping as rated. I wake up with extensive frost on the bag and my pack and partly or mostly frozen water bottles, so those are cold nights indeed. (Remember to keep a water bottle with you in the bag or store them upside down so that you can get water in the mornings whenever it's below 25ºF.)
So I want to disagree with the idea from the video that it's good only in the mid thirties. I've slept in it many times in the mid thirties and it's nice and toasty up there, but it's plenty practical ten or fifteen degrees colder. Also, you can regularly find it on sale for $130. Try doing that with a Western Mountaineering bag!
Just a thought, but I don't think anybody thinks about the comfort of a wet bag, synthetic or down. I started backpacking in the white mountains of NH. back in the early 80's. Temps can be extreme up here in NH, and the tallest of our peaks, Mt Washington, has seen winds at well over 200 mph and wind chills at 60 below and less are common. A wet down bag up here in extreme conditions, which will give you about zero insulating factor, will get you killed due to hypothermia in a matter of hours. Even a wet synthetic will give you some heat back, and might save your life if you happen to get into trouble with the weather.
Down is excellent at doing what it does, and so are the synthetic lofts. If I am packing during the summer with good weather and temps, then down it is. In colder conditions where things might get wet from snow, ice, or perspiration, my go to for this part of the country will almost always a synthetic.
Depending on where you live and what you will be doing, will or should anyway, dictate one way or the other for your general purposes. The good part about this decision is that there is no wrong answer, just what will work best for you in the conditions that you will be using it in.
Thanks for your nice review of those bags and your insightful commentary !!
PS. I saw just recently that a certain company was using a " wax coated " down in their puff jackets. Depending on how that works out, the best of both worlds for sleeping bags might be just around the corner. Best wishes and happy and safe trails. ---den
I too have the Cosmic 20 and found it very comfortable at 24F, haven't had it lower. Very good Budget bag.
Yup, I've used it in low 20s and it did pretty good. Feet were cold, but the tent was directly on snow, and my pad had an r value of maybe 1. Since getting my xtherm, I haven't been cold at all in this bag. I would definitely recommend pairing the cosmic down with a good pad.
found out the hard way this weekend about the rating system
took a bag that had a 10C/50F to 45f just to find out 50F was the danger zone
I have climbed into a wet synthetic bag in soaked clothes and warmed up enough to sleep. Of course i was in the army, I can sleep anywhere, anytime and I was very grateful I had a bag, wet or dry.
I "slept" in 3" of water in a military down mummy bag at the end of a tent with 8 people in it. I was frozen. I was the lucky one who got the low end. 2 AM until 6 AM it rained, I did not sleep until I got home the next day. I'll never buy a down bag again and not because of that night, I've just never had good luck with down bags, synthetic for me.
I got the kelty for my daughter at REI garage sale for $60. Such a steal for a great bag
I have the Hyperion 20 and I have to say, it is cold anywhere below 2-3deg Celsius. Always wear thermals because although it’s good at keeping you warm, it’s not that wind-resistant. Hard to say how you can’t have one without the other but you just do 😂.
Thanks for the breakdown. Looking to buy a couple bags this weekend for cooler weather down here in GA so this couldn’t have been better timing wise . Awesome content as usual . It has been so cool watching your sub scriber count climbing steadily over this last year. Keep it up 👍🏼
If you haven't yet bought a bag, check out the Marmot Trestles 20 Eco. It's been discontinued but is all over the place on the clearance market. Weighs about 2 lb., 7 oz., packs down well and you can usually get it for about $125 or lower.
RAMBLE ON BROTHER!! 🤣
i have a Cosmic 20, at 20 deg, you are uncomfortable but not cold. it’s an excellent value
Down sleeping bag, when gets moisture even from breath condensation, can loose warmth as feathers wouldn't fluff. And it is almost impossible to dry down sleeping bag in winter when you're out. So, yes, down sleeping bag requires much more protection and much more smart use in freezing temperatures. This takes couple of 0F sleeps to understand this.
Anyways, I am definitely choosing down for below 20F.
As of "transition" rating - this actually is considered as "men comfort limit" meaning that this bag is okay for men down to this temperature in a proper base layer clothing. So, it is totally fine to use this for men sleeping bags.
P.S. What works for above 20F doesn't always work for below 0F.
Good videos, Dan. I think your viewers would appreciate it if you would weigh the bags on your own scale and put those numbers up. Weight is key, and estimating isn't much use at all. Thanks.
So a situation where warm-when-wet is important might be if one's shelter is damaged in a storm, resulting in the bag getting wet. Or if the bag gets wet during the day from some mishap or another.
A wet bag is going to take a long time to dry out.
My dad has a story where he and his travel bud both got their sleeping bags very wet in Alaska bush. It does happen.
New down seems to be much more reliable, and I prefer down bags.
Point being YES, sleeping bags can get wet and you'd best have good equipment
When I heard the first Price I was like nope wrong video..I had a 4 part army system I pop payed $350 10 years ago. I test fee nights in Chicago in my back yard at 0 degrees. With small 3 inch tv it was awesome was not cold at all. I had to get out to take a leak and when I did it was absolutely freezing I stood in my socks on my bag and leaked LOL. When I got back in the bag and zipped up I quickly warmed up it was amazing
Good stuff Dan! I love my 5 degree Zpacks. So warm!!
how often will you be sleeping in a wet sleeping bag? depends, are you in a bivy sack? did you do a river crossing that went bad? are you in a tent that leaked? thats one walled and its been raining for a long time and the inside of your tend is soaked? did you body put out lots of moisture night after night and the weather has not improved for days? no chance to dry out your bag? also have you watched videos of missing hikers in cold weather and the answer to "what happened?" might have been they could not stay warm enough over several days? seems to me your sleeping bag needs to be bomb proof, it needs to be able to keep you alive under all circumstances and your tent needs to work together with it. BOTH need to function to keep you alive and you need to think worst case scenario. Ive had both my tent and my bag soaked over a week of non stop rain and I slept in a wet bag for a few nights. its bad but it can happen, my gear kept me alive.
All these sleeping bags are good but I still like my feathered friends snowy owl -60 bag have yet to get cold in it
I Owen the western mountaineering alpinelite - The last sleeping bag you ever need .
I use it as a quilt when it’s warm outside
and I take it in the winter easily .
It's essentially a down blanket with a zipper...I get down isn't cheap but it's not that expensive either I have a down pillow and blanket set I paid $100 for and it must be 1000 fill all together
Wow, someone finally figured out that there needs to be tape by the zipper. Amazing!
My sleeping bag hoodie and foot-box sometimes come into contact with my tent wall when its raining. The bag will get a bit wet on the outside. It was never so much that i felt anything inside, tho im glad I wasn't in my summer down bag in those nights. Also one time I got surprised by rain and had to go to sleep with damp cloths and the synthetic bag dried them over night with me not freezing.
I know that's more of a behavior issue or a bad tent but if you are new to the outdoor stuff things just don't go as planed and you get wet sometimes.
WM is as warm and long-lived as it is expensive. It weighs the same as other sleeping bags but is warmer
Feathered friends 30 degree bags are also good mid-range contenders for ~$400
I know that a thoroughly comprehensive video covering all the categories would be hours (if not days) long, but I think there are some ultra-budget bags that should at least get an honorable mention. Hyke and bike, Aegismax, Outdoor Vitals to name a few. I don't know that I would through hike with these, but for the casual/weekend hiker I think they're a valid option without breaking the bank.
Be careful with hyke and bike. Their rating is the survival rating from what I understand.
@@DanBecker Yikes!
Seemed like this vid was more aimed at being able to sleep in cooler temps. I've got the Aegismax and use it mostly like a quilt. I'm a warm sleeper so I can use it in lower temps. When it gets to unpredictably cold temps, I switch to my Marmot Trestles 20 Eco, which weighs 2 lb., 7 oz. and will run about $125 or lower on the clearance market (it was discontinued a couple of years ago).
I just bought a WM because I had a Hyke and Bike 0 degree and since the baffles are so long its hard for the down to evenly distribute. I was camping in the mountains last weekend and I couldn't get my bag to fluffy back up so I again splurged and bought the WM bag and I'm only a weekend bag packer lol I have a problem.
Hey Dan. I like this video. I haven't got a sleeping bag yet. I think I might get one for Christmas this year.
If you still haven't gotten one, but are in the market for a budget one, the Marmot Trestles 20 Eco was discontinued but there are still a lot of them out there on the clearance market. It weighs about 2 lb., 7 oz., packs up well and can usually be had for $125 or less. It's a standard sized mummy bag, so as long as you're standard sized, it should work well for you. I'm 58" around the shoulders so I just leave the top unzipped and sort of use it as a bag down low, and quilt up high. So far, so good.
I have a Feathered Friends Raven 10°. I absolutely love it. Like you, I toss and turn at night. This bag is roomy and warm.