Grading More Blue Commander Staples of EDHREC | Which Blue Staples are Worth Playing? | MTG
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2021
- Time to grade some MORE blue Commander staples, and see which ones we think are really worth going for in the format!
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I think the reason muddle the mixture is so popular is because it can tutor up cyclonic rift.
It’s because it can tutor either piece of the dramatic reversal + isochron scepter combo
Can't forget the tutor for dockside extortionist to trigger an infinite mana loop
I miss seeing the Elspeth Conquers Death scroll in the background
It's currently chilling in our living room lol
@@NitpickingNerds noice!
“Elspeth conquers living room”
Grade every zombie ever.
Grave titan is A tier.
Edit: What do you mean is not a zombie??
He couldn't even get THAT right
"A, that was even that hard" probably laughed harder at that then I should have.
We need a video showcasing your personal decks! Give the people what they want!
100% agree we are looking forward to eventually getting that one made!
Yes! Do this^^^
I really enjoy Muddle the Mixture, because it finds me Cyclonic Rift when I need it.
Two Cyclonic Rifts is strong to have access to for some decks
Trinket Mage is closer to an A for me. The package usually includes multiple ramp targets (Sol Ring/Mana Crypt), card draw (Skullclamp), combos (Walking Ballista) and very importantly graveyard hate (Nihil Spellbomb, Relic of Progenitus etc.) The fact that one card comes down, finds the best card in the moment and then can be blinked, reanimated etc to find the best late game card is just awesome. I've had several games with T3 Mage grab Mana Crypt, T6 blink Mage grab Walking Ballista.
I think it's more of a B or B+ for the reasons you mentioned. You definitely need a bit of a build around for it (otherwise the card is very medium), but when you do, it's amazing, because so many of the things you'd ever care about are either 1 mana, or 0.
Disallow at F? STRONGLY disagree. It is very flexible. I would say C+ at minimum. I see it as a win condition stopper because it works in so many situations.
they like saying thought provoking things.
It’s the counterspell version of Generous Gift/Beast Within. The versatility makes up for the mana cost. As more sets get released, there will only be more abilities worth countering.
We don't think adding "activated/triggered ability" adds enough versatility to a counterspell to tack on an extra mana is all
@@johnaych8954 you mean controversial.....
This is only active when you leave 3 mana unspent per turn cycle unlike beast within which works retroactively too. This does get a little better as a card though if your games tend to last long and 3 mana to keep up isn't a big deal. I'd say D, only when short on options like playing mono blue, budget, or the deck always has mana open
Delay is one of my favorite counterspells in a budget suite. It with Counterspell, Arcane Denial, and Negate/Dovin's Veto/Stubborn Denial depending on the deck has usually done good for me.
Etherium sculpter seems really good cause if you build around it its gonna be a 2 mana mana dork in a bad turn and if your casting sol rings and mind stones its gonna make 3-4 mana.
I dont know what to say other than i just frickin love your content, guys!
Interesting topic, fun delivery and almost always some new interesting takes on several cards.
Thanks for all your effort!
Really appreciate your comment!
Note for Rite of Replication: I use this card in combination with Vela the Night-Clad as it works as a wonky finisher since they will all die due to legendary rule simultaneously and trigger off each other, which means 30 dmg to all opponents.
I gotta disagree on Ghostly Flicker. In a flicker deck it is SO flexible. I was just playing yesterday and someone tried to spot remove Solitude. I cast Ghostly Flicker targeting Solitude and Elite Guardmage in response ... fizzling the spell, exiling another creature, drawing a card, and gaining 3 life! Three mana for that effect PLUS keeping your creatures alive for continued use is an absurdly good rate, and that's not just a corner case. In that same game I used it to loop flickers on Eternal Witness and End-Raze Forerunners to finish of two opponents.
Basically, in a flicker deck, because of the type of creatures you should have out, it's always going to give you strong effects at a very under-costed rate.
Love the content guys! Thanks for making my monday worth it
Our pleasure!
Glad to see your channel gaining popularity! Underrated mtg opinion content!
My my, more Monday morning meaty magnificence? I'm in!
Magnificent!
I def think rewind is better than you suggest. All you need to break it is lands that tap fo more than 1 mana, at which point this jumps up to around mana drain level. Gaea's cradle. Coffers. Nykthos. The floor here is a free counterspell - the ceiling is insane.
I have Leyline in one deck - Bantress, helmed by Tuvasa (who cares about casting spells on EACH turn).
Sick synergy!
Lighting looks great! and the set is really coming together (:
We will be improving it more once our new stuff comes in!
Tbh I’m not fond of the lighting:(
My favorite spot for leyline of anticipation is Kadena, it really unlocks her or any other card that lets you do something once per turn that cares about things besides instants. Esix, Rashmi, Tuvasa and other commanders like that.
Also, I feel like you might be undervaluing spark double. So many commanders want more of themselves, yarok comes to mind even though that’s way over the top. I guess you can end up in a situation where you have no creatures, can’t cast your commander and are stuck with nothing but sparky in your hand but I feel like that is pretty unlikely and also you’re probably not winning from that position no matter what.
Yeah it’s busted in yarok
The only deck where I run Disallow is in my Roon deck. It mainly exists in the deck to counter Roon’s return to the battlefield trigger at end of turn, which can permanently exile Commanders (if they let it go to exile) or problematic creatures. Still probably too much mana for it to be efficient, but because of the threat of this card I’ve had opponents choose to put their Commander in the Command Zone once they have been targeted with Roon’s ability. Little bonus that it’s a Counterspell if really needed. Nothing crazy, but it’s a fun little card in the deck.
Explosive Vegetation is a fantastic card! Saturday night I played my Arahbo deck. Turn 1 plains into a Sol Ring. Turn 2 forest into Explosive Vegetation. Turn 3 I had 7 mana and did 16 damage to my opponents face. Turn 4 I did 32 damage to someone else's face. Ended up winning with Felidar Sovereign's Upkeep trigger on turn 6 but it was a good game
Explosive Veggies is alright, but we have seen so many "strictly" better versions of it that it's just not a card we turn to. We are especially huge fans of our favorite 4 cmc ramp spell, Skyshroud Claim, which can manafix and put your forests in untapped
Great video guys
I'd like to nominate terror of the peaks for the rite of replication hall of fame
Oh no..
I love these videos so much!
Thanks nick, glad you love them!
I always consider putting Treasure Cruise in decks but end up using other things instead. I just get the feeling that often I'm not going to have enough in my graveyard to delve unless my deck is built around self mill. What do you guys think about its consistency?
What 1 mana removal spells would you guys suggest replacing Pongify/Rapid Hybridization in a Temur deck?
In temur, id keep one of those and add maybe beast within, chaos warp, reshape, the 1 and blue one that exiles, and natures claim.
That's 2 creature removal, 2 universal, and 1 artifact/enchantment
I have a highly tuned gavi deck that flickers archaeomancer every turn and its so fun to cyclonic rift, flicker archaeomancer and do it again next turn. Another fun one to grab is silence and just silence everybody on their upkeep. It also allows me to grab my cycling spells just in case I don't draw well.
I have to use Lab Man over Thassa’s Oracle in Muldrotha, because I’m dredging myself out, so I may have to it at sorcery speed, and it’s hard to end it at exactly 0 cards.
Doesn't Oracle give you some flexibility in when you can win? If you have 6 devotion you don't need to mill all the way out right? I might be missing something
@@NitpickingNerds I’m not always just dredging 6. I have things like Greater Good with Hogaak or Dakmor Salvage with Gitrog Monster during my discard phase, etc. Oracle is much better when you have the luxury of precision. Jace and Lab Man afford you the luxury of having to do things a little less elegantly.
I play a saheeli artifacts deck that etherium sculptor is great in. It also is very good when you're trying to do krark clan Ironworks combos, with scrap trawler, junk diver, etc.
True, definitely helps combos
I find it kinda funny that you talk about Archaeomancer and loop it with anything cause just last night i was thinking i use it in my Tetsuko deck and i should put a Sword of Hearth and Home in my deck for creatures like Archaeomancer and Glen Elendra Archmage and other ETB creatures.....I just watched the rest of you two talking about it, sorry guys i should've waited before commenting
“It’s the LabMan of explosive vegetations”
That line alone kept me subscribed after so many questionable choices 🤣 and yes, taking into account the cEDH argument
Definitely wanna go back to that comparison more
The debate over dig through time vs. treasure cruise is largely about the composition of the deck. In most cases, 2 cards chosen out of 7 (i think) is better in overall quality than draw 3. But in spellslinger decks where its really just about storm count, card quantity is more valuable.
Spark Double and Oko are fun to play xD
The thing with Dissolve is versatility. Will you play a 1WW card that is a Sword to Plowshares or Disenchant? I would. 3 mana to counter an opponent win spell or ability is worth. Perhaps the hard thing is to consider always have 3 mana open, but in the final turns, a lot of times 1 mana more isn't really much difference.
Empirium Sculpture helps my Emry deck go infinite. It's an artifact so I can reanimate it, find it with tribute mage, and cast it for one blue if I have a different 1 mana reducer out. SO, it essentially reads "You Win the Game" in that deck.
I think it's really worth mentioning that Ghostly Flicker also gives you double landfall, while refunding at least 2 mana
Etherium Sculptor is in the Jhoira deck along with all the other cost reducers (cloud key, Foundry Inspector or whichever dude that is, Ugin, Semblance Anvil, etc). This deck somehow keeps flooding on lands to the point where I wanna go oops all spells.
Chain of vapor goes up in value the moment you realize you can hold the table hostage with your opponents wincon.
Ischron scepter and muddle the mixture have unusually good synergy
This is true, plus Dramatic Reversal
Etherium Sculptor is amazing in artifact storm (Jhoira) paired with other cost reducers for maximum fun! Not so much for your opponents tho lol
Yeah that's a long turn in the making
Etherium sculptor is actually the worst cost reducers for jhoira, purely because of the blue mana symbol.
For Serum Visions, Siani/Eligeth scrybal? Or probably any Eligeth deck for that matter? Assuming you have Elly out, cheap scry spells become cheap draw spells, e.g. Serum Visions basically reads draw 3 for (U). Not that that's an argument that you guys are sleeping on it or anything, but since you had trouble coming up with a deck that wants it, I thought that's a good one. IDK what do you guys think?
I definitely want 3 copies of Coastal Piracy in every deck that wants to run it. Such a powerful effect for go wide strategies
Can I recommend some better lighting behind the camera in your new set.
Sorry if I missed something you guys already mentioned.
Etherium sculptor plus mystic forge....
Also give infinite cast triggers with Top and forge. I love it in my Sai deck.
Sick backdrop btw
Thanks Cat :P
Is there a situation where the difference between Pongify and Rapid Hybridisation matters??
I dont run disallow in any of my good decks, but im feeling like it isnt an F. Iv found that its value is in "not casting it". Imagining someone goes for a combo, you can actually just let all the spells resolve to see everyone else use their interaction first, meaning you still have yours
And another great video btw
Disallow is a C- to me. Countering a triggered ability is always useful, especially an etb trigger or death trigger. Cards like Craterhoof Behemoth, Ravenous Chupacabra, Avenger of Zendikar, both Ulamogs, Shriekmaw, Protean Hulk, Grave Betrayal, Thassa's Oracle, Bane of Progress, Reclamation Sage, Sun Titan, Reveillark, Eternal Witness, Knight of Autumn, all Clone cards, Landfall cards, and Panharmonicon are all reasons to run it.
I like leyline in my Roon decks as it’s pretty controlling but also relies on creatures so being able to play on other people’s turns is nice. Feels awful when I have to pay full price tho
When a cat brings you something like that it's because they love you so much they want to share with you their most precious. possession
I never thought I would basically disagree with each and every assessments of you guys… But here we are ^^. (Ok 80% of them, but still)
Nothing wrong with disagreeing at all. There is a channel in the world that I agree with fully and I would expect the same from others. Challenge our opinions! We are just a pair of nerds
@@NitpickingNerds Absolutely agree. I tried to put it as politely and respectfully as possible ;)
I just usually mostly agree with your opinions... So it was just a bit surprising.
Sometimes my playgroup feels a bit more casual than yours and sometimes definitely more competitive ?
Like Acidic Slime that you hate SO much is absolutely playable. Destroying a really powerful land and deterring agression is actually a nice package.... Particularly when you can recur it...
And on the opposite side of the spectrum Mental misstep also is. There is ALWAYS a great target for it... in no particular order: Sol ring obviously... but also sword to Plowshare, Mystical/Wordly/Vampiric/Enlightened tutor, Dispel/Veil of summer, Red Elemental blast, a random turn 1 Serra ascendant, Sensei Divining top, Spore frog
@@vgp2736 I assumed most decks right above precon lvl have more than 10 one drops and that the majority of decks are even stronger than that but, maybe my play group is more competitive than I thought. Didn't think I was playing cedh but, most of our decks have closer to 20. If you know you're going to have 30+ targets a game Misstep is at least playable. Anything past that it seems like an auto include
When everyone is running Consecrated Sphinx...I run Bribery.
I believe the proper term is "yoink!"
Lighting is much better, lol. You guys are hilarious
I hear you bagging on Coastal Piracy. But what if you have a Mercadian Masques foil that you pulled from a pack back in 1999?
If you and an opponent have a consecrated sphinx wouldnt they, if they choose to, be able to draw their whole deck if they just go back and forth?
@archeomancer comments
This works very well in living death loops
Love the channel, thanks!
Happy to provide this vid!
I play pongify because is hilarious, that's it. Great show btw! Keep doing those gradings
I want disclaimer guy back! I'm sure it would help with all your new disclaimers.
While Disallow is definitely an F, my suggested replacement isn't much better from a power standpoint: Dream Fracture. Yes, it's also 3 mana, but it's a counterspell that cantrips and gives your opponent a card too, so the net change in card advantage is 0. Plus Dream Fracture is better for politics, as players don't tend to feel as bad about their spell being countered when they get cards or other resources to replace them.
I love it when people point out the political aspect! yet another reason why arcane denial is the greatest counterspell that needs mana to cast
@@selkokieli843 Yes, definitely, but unfortunately there are so few counterspells that actually give the opponent any sort of benefit. We have Swan Song, Remand, Arcane Denial, Dream Fracture, and Delay, and I think that's it?
Thaaaaaat was what weird with the precon power-ups! The lights... I thought you were tired as f@ck!
I think you're thinking about disallow all wrong. it's not about countering Planeswalkers, it's about countering all the activated abilities that you can't counter normally. ninjutsu, scion of the ur dragon, cycling, a sefris reanimating something, the kimigawa lands, veichles, the it's not good in every situation but if you know those decks are at the table, cards like disallow are the only way you have to interact with those abilities
Etherium Sculptor in Urza… ooh yeah.
Anyone else have flashes of spoony when the topic of how to grow on youtube came up?
i do like chain of vapor in my omnath deck sometimes to counter board wipes and because i have a lot of ways to get lands from my graveyard into play, but yeah otherwise it's trash
You guys are pretty good.
We like you too
You guys are way underestimating pongify and rapid Hybridization. 1 mana removal spells are key and it is way easier to hold up one mana than 3 for more encompassing removal like genrous gift and chaos warp. White is probably the only color better with path and swords but with all the single target removal needed in decks nowadays I dont see how u cut pongify from any 2 or even 3 color decks.
When they said Pongify and RH should not be in a 3 color deck, I started feeling bad running them in Kess
I think those are both simic only cards maybe izzet occasionally but white an black have better removal so if i need single target i will go there. Also you got cyc rift so removal isnt that important when it could have hexproof or indestructible. Blue now has multiple exile creature or artifact spells so i dont see them as being as good anymore.
Rite of Replication + Scourge of Valkas = 125 - 180 damage! (180 if you control the original).
I think Reconnaissance Mission is so much better than Bident of Tassa. More difficult to kill, and it cycles.
Serum visions is actually really good…
I’m gonna go ahead and disallow your statements about disallow, it’s super flexible and I’ve countered so many different types of things that even just counterspell couldn’t deal with. That’s my only quarrel with these ratings. Also being able to say disallow to something adds some extra flavor 🤣
Dont want my spells to have flash. Cries in Kadena.
disallow is good if your commander is baral
Fabricate is fine in the event your deck actually needs one or more artifacts to win off of, and you aren't trying to fix or ramp off of it.
Consecrated Sphinx isn't fun? I run it in Talrand as the fun alternative to Jin-Gitaxias, who seems actually unfun.
I once Rite of Replication my Reaper King that had been stolen to win the game. Was a weird moment.
Serum Vision is fine in a deck with payoffs, and I think it's better as a cantrip than you're suggesting. I place it at 4th, but maybe I'm over-rating.
Bumping
I love my Disallow
My Krark deck wants all the spell cantrips I can get
Makes sense!
Joe is a Roman Reigns fan… nice!
Etherium Sculptor is best friends with Jhoira and Mystic Forge…
Absolutely
Man a lot of the cheaper cards are in my Sai, Master Thopterist budget deck. Etherium sculptor is absolutely bonkers, for 0 Mana I can make 4 thopters and have 1 drop artifacts that give me card draw or value? Yessir. My favorite is when I trinket mage into sol ring with the sculptor out and ramp myself for 2 Mana for free. Budget Mana crypt 🤣
I think at this point Emile is much better than deadeye. (Obviously different colours tho) yes, it’s one more but it’s all generic to flicker and is much less clunky. And it can flicker any creature.
#cgb should've been invited to this.
A friend went infinite turns with Archeomancer with kicked Rite of Replication and Time Warp…how they got to that much mana, who knows?
I blame the rest of the table! :P
Why costal piracy. Listen Joe it is absolutely necessary that I play both coastal piracy and bident of Thassa in my Pirate deck
If someone cares about countering activated or triggered abilities, they should play Sublime Epiphany instead of Disallow.
Disallow is at least. C maybe a B. If you have a "counter spells matter" deck, it has a home. It should be also be looking as something modal, like an abraid. It's better than you graded it.
Lab Man is arguably better than Jace since triple blue is killer and lab man can be resurrected in self mill decks
I enjoy your videos and you've got a permanent sub. However-
Disallow is absolutely a C at the very least. It's never not good. It's an unconditional Counterspell with the bonus ability of stopping infinite combos based off of activated or triggered abilities. I'd pay an extra mana to not lose the game every time. I don't understand why you dislike it so much, considering you just said this isn't a cEDH list
Where half these cards would be trash in any other deck, Orvar the All form makes half these cards auto includes for his deck.
Nah there are decks where you can't get enough of the coastal piracy effect, 3 isn't enough for me in my Derevi deck
I dissalowed my friends fectch land lol
Nasty
Ætherize is great because it doesn't target
I think your vastly underestimating Leyline of anticipation. yes it can only go in blue decks but its also a fraction of the cost of Vedalken Orrery. Also paring it up with something like seedborn muse and you can have all the turns be your turn as well. I also like playing that surprise creature or sorcery on my opponents turn. Its not an A because not every deck needs or wants to play things at instant speed but because of what it does it should at least be a B.
Also think your a little too harsh on Disallow. yes there are cheaper counterspells out there mana wise but in a casual format most people arnt going to be playing their force of wills or Negations. And other then counterspell anything that costs one or two mana ether is specific in what it counters or there is a drawback or the card is super expensive price wise which most casual players wont play or cant afford. Also you bash rewind even though its essentially a free counterspell. I really dont know why more people dont use it as the only downside is if someone counterpells your rewind. but thats true with playing any card if it gets countered then your out whateven mana you spent to play that card in the first place.
Glaspool mimic can only copy things on your side of the field.
I like the flash effect, it has a high ceiling, it can be VERY advantagous. but the floor is do nothing. it is fun when it works though. Holding up mana for counterspells is never free though, not spending 4 of your mana every turn you keep it up is just devastating. you just can't develop early or midgame. also what do you use the mana for after untapping lands? rewind needs a great mana sink or the flash effect for all your spells to make it do anything. Luckily arcane denial and counterspell are cheap pickups
@@selkokieli843 So you can hold open 7 mana for a cyclonic rift but not 4 mana for a Rewind? especially since this is commander we are talking about most times its pretty easy to leave a few mana open. and since as stated since rewind is essentially free once it resolves then you have your mana open again for your other opponents turns.
And like i said the Leyline isnt for every deck out there but its defiantly not a C type of card ether.
Totally agree. Flash is so important in my Kadena deck (especially with Seedborn Muse) that I have every ability in her colors to give my creatures flash and typically makes me sus to the rest of the table (they know). Outside of that deck I play the leyline in 0/4 of my other blue decks, but in Kadena the synergy is game breaking typically, which is B by their metric.
I'd say Disallow is only good in a Roon deck.
Based of the grades….I disagree with some, a lot of those cards that got a low grade are win cons and or kept me alive on upkeep when I’m about to deck out and lose (blue sun zenith x=0 )
And fabricate is a tutor for artifacts! An easy A!
leyline of anticipation + seedborn muse is hyper annoying once out.
based on what you say about cEDH it seems so unfun compared to the diverse jank of regular commander, like some fucked up 100 card singleton version of legacy where instead of a sideboard you have a merman who can find a bunch of lands.
if you wane be fancy with thassa's oracle you could copy it a bunch or have lot of devotion to try to get the look at the top 50 and win.
also i think consecratet sphynx is so overrated. if you cheat in in play you could put better thing in play that mostly win you the game and if you hard cast it you could also cast so many other things. if i put a 6+ mana spell i my deck it has do something over the top. most of my deck don't even have 6+ mana spells because they're so clunky, of cause not counting cost reduction cards like great henge, with the one outlier being my imoty deck where every single card is either hypergenesis, eureka, shardless agent or 5+ mana.
I feel like some cards aren’t as high because people cant buy it
Disallow is so good that I’ll change the colorless pip to a green one and still play it as a voidslime!
Also Archaeomancer is the third best creature in my yorion deck, right behind recruiter of the guard and spellseeker
Aside from those two you guys are mostly not wrong.
Consecrated Sphinx:
“You gotta spend 6 mana to cast this card…”
My Reaninator deck: Oh, 6-mana, you say? Sorcery speed, you say?…