I am a senior mechanical engineer and I wanted to correct one misconception. As one other astute person tried to explain, 6 bolt rotors, with properly torqed screws (6.4Nm) transfer their torque through the static friction between the rotor plate and the hub, NOT through the bolt threads. When designing any interface where bolts will be under sheer stress, it is crytical to specify enough torque so the two parts being joined can not slide. I can't say whether 6 bolt or CL is stronger without knowing the material properties and exact dimensions, but I can say both are strong enough. I think 6 bolt interfaces will be around for a long time.
Out in the wild, the 6-bolt interface is likely to be contaminated by lubricant seepage. What is true, though, is the braking force is primarily sheer force, not pullout force. The threads will hold up forever.
This is how videos should be made regardless of subject matter. No headbanger music, gratuitous editing nonsense, experimentation, just information! I suffered through an 18 minute video in how to clean a chain only because I wanted to know how anyone could waste 18 minutes of his life (and mine) in a 6-7 minute procedure. Thank you sickbiker.
Here are some more benefits of the Center-Lock system. You can mount a 6-Bolt (IS) rotor on a Center-Lock hub with an adapter. The opposite cross-compatibility is not possible (CL rotor on an IS hub). This makes the Center-Lock really good standard, as the more expensive and complex component (the hub) is actually compatible with both standards. Another advantage of the Center-Lock system is the more robust locking ring. It is way much easier to damage the threads of a 6-Bolt hub or the bolts themselves.
My bike front wheel doesnt have a 6 bolt thing, is there like a tool i can buy that fits and then i can put the brake? Of so what's the name of that piece please and thanks
My bike has 1 hex bolt with a stripped out hex hole on each wheel for the brake rotors so yeah, center lock does seem like a God send for anyone, not just me. I can't get those bolts out for the life of me. But why do budget ("Wal-Mart") bike manufacturers choose the 6-bolt as the standard if center lock is so much better?
Just to clarify: There's not much pull-out force in this application for either type of adapter. For the 6-bolt, the force on the bolts will be a sheer force. It will be offset by the friction between the rotor and the mount. The CL style is likely stronger, but the reality is I have high doubts either system would fail.
Careful here! Dangerous half knowledge. The 6 bolt system does NOT transfer the breaking power over the threads. It is a flange, a circular pattern of screws, which is creating alot of pressure and therefore friction between the rotor and the mountingsurface. If mounted correctly, with tight bolts, a flange transfers torsional power with that friction. Not with the bolts. Same thing with the wheels on your car. Not the bolts transfer the power, it is the friction between the wheel and the mounting surface.
I had a wheel build done recently which, because the hubs I needed only come with the 6-bolt option, necessitated a change from centre-lock to 6-bolt. I went from SM RT81's to SM RT86's. The standard Shimano bolts are pretty cheap and rattle about in the hubs. They allow a lot of disc movement before tightening too. I used Hope bolts in the hubs instead (the hubs are Hope Pro 4, SCS standard) and these are a much more precise fit as well a allowing much less disc 'slop' before tightening. No alignment issues and braking performance is exactly as before. No need to use those 'dog bone' washers that come with the discs. The standard bolts are rather wimpy looking items, probably to compensate for the washer thickness and avoid clearance problems. I torqued the Hope bolts up to 5Nm as advised by Hope, rather than the low 2 - 4 Nm Shimano specify because of their bolts' skimpy heads.
This is really good info the last thing I need is to buy the wrong disc brake for when I switch, like I did when I bought Campy wheels I bought a cassette that fit but not the lock ring, then not paying attention bought the wrong lock ring and finally got the right lock ring.
Great video! I never thought about how the braking force is actually transferred and it really makes you think about how centerlock is much better in that manner.
@@wangdangdoodie If the hubs you want to run only come in 6 bolt, get them. "Downhillers" don't favor anything. They may tend to run 6 bolt because there are more options in 6 bolt and that appeals to the general masses (public). Centerlock was developed by Shimano for the same reason it exists in automobile racing, its faster to undo 1 nut, than 6. Other than that, if you're not racing... its whatever. Both systems are completely adequate for anything your fat ass can throw at it on A MASSIVE DOWNHILL BRUH ROFLCOPTER?!
For me its the opposite I do have play on the center lock always has play in rotor don't know if that is normal? but on my 6 bolt rotor does not have any play on the rotor.
is there a difference in how far away from the NDS chainstay the rotor sits with either system? does centerlock make the rotor disc sit further out from the hub than a 6-bolt system?
Does anyone know, empirically, if it is possible to combine Centerlock hubs and discs with SRAM shifters on a gravel bike, without issues? I vaguely remember, I had Magura Martha brakes on My Cannondale Caffeine a while ago, but after the rear calliper leaked oil, upgraded to Shimano XTR, but kept the wheel and the Magura 6-bolt rotor with little or no issues. Now I'm interested in the reverse: to keep the SRAM Rival shifters and derailleurs on My soon-to-be-procured gravel bike, but change the hubs / wheels and the rotors after a while (I'm not a fan of the 6-bolt interface).
Hello mr shai I'm new to your channel. I just need some advice from you please sir. What is your opinion on the canyon Endurace AL 6.0 bike?. I am looking for a good aluminum frame endurance road bike. So what do you think about the Endurace?, and also what other bikes should I look at?
Centre lock will have play and creak a little when the bike is pushed back and forth with the brakes on. No big issues but something that’s not an issue on 6 bolt discs from what I see.
Hi my friend, how are you ? Sorry for ask here, but this is the most recent video, so, i think here is better for get your answer... I want to buy the Mavic Ksyrium Pro Exalith SL wheelset. Reading the comments from the video, I saw that he sold his wheels. Any special reason? Recommended as wheels for training, day by day?
I just recently found out that CL is a little lighter option than 6-bolt as well. 45-55 gram difference. Good to consider when trying to save weight on a new wheelset.
The CL rotor locking mechanism has a great advantage for an amateur mechanic without a torque wrench, as it's enormously hard to strip the threads by force. I've used CL hubs before, but I switched to the 6-bolt XT hubs for my winter XC bike because (at least the old CL version of) XT hubs have one less gasket on the rotor side and I wanted to get as much protection against the salty road slush as possible. 5 winters and the hubs are still running smoothly. But I really miss the ability to switch the rotors in 30 seconds and already have one of the threads in the aluminum hub destroyed by the galvanic corrosion (I use steel rotor bolts).
I use the rear brake more often than the front one, would it be a good idea to replace my 160mm rear rotor with a 180mm to have the same size on both hubs?
One downside to Centerlock I've heard from wheel builders concerns the hub bearings. Six-bolt hubs have enough room to make use of bigger hub bearings, which tend to be more durable; Centerlock hubs limit this.
I don't think that the durability of the bearings is a problem but you like to have bigger axles (QR 15 or 20) that have less flex and better mounting. Motorcycles discs are mounted similar to the 6 screw system, so technicly both systems are good- it's just that you like to stick with 1 rather then to have discs and hubs/ wheels for 2 different systems.
the distribution of force is a good observation. curves, archs and circles in architecture and engineering are far stronger than straight lines and squares because they former is better at evenly distributing the weight. Center Lock discs will provide consistently smoother braking and distribute that turbulence evenly among the entire wheel. While the same can be achieved with 6 bolts it requires precise tigjtening of each bolt in relation to each other. Which is a tall order
Unless your changing your rotors several times a day I don't see any advantage of the centre lock. I actually almost cross threaded the locking cap one time, you have to be really careful getting it started, I think I would choose the 6 bolt to be honest, never had a problem with them and its not that much more time to take 6 small bolts out and much more rotor options out there.
Thanks for the video. Currently assembling a hard tail mountain bike and I have 180 rotor up front and 160 rotor at the back, both center locked. My question is what kind of caliper adapters do I need for each? Both fork and frame are post mount style. I could only find adapters for 180 rotors, but not so much on 160 rotors.
my car disk brakes are slipped over the wheel studs and held on by the wheel and lug nuts. There is some play in that system as well. It doesn't seem to cause any problems there, for normal road driving. Race cars use what are called floating rotors, which seem much more like the centerlock setup, but they do that to help keep wheel bearing cooler, and to allow for some movement of the rotors as they warm up. neither of those things seems like it would be highly critical for a bicycle.
One thing is sure.. The 6 bolt rotor is cheaper to buy and the choice is much better.. So either 6 hole hub or centre lick with 6 hole blade adapter.. If you want more choice and to have less running costs..
There is any problem if I switch between two wheelset one with Cl and the other with 6 BOLTS Both with the same rotors dimension and using the same bike? My idea is have one set with 700x28c and other for gravel with 700x35c
Shouldn't be any. Maybe they both will not be at the precisely the same position (we are talking about a fraction of mm) and there can be some light friction from one side but there are 2 solutions of the problem: you can pull the brake pistons back to the calipers and then they will be spontaneously auto-centered (taking into account modern hydraulic systems) or you can use thin spacers, for example these from Syntace: www.syntace.com/index.cfm?pid=3&pk=757 to obtain equal offset
I had the problem of thinking that centrelock discs or rotors are all the same. I have a Sram set up and tried to fit new rotors. The rotors were Shimanos system which is different to Sram so would not fit. They both have the same way the disc slides on but the nuts are different types. I made a video to explain this difference. I hope it helps others.
Could you help me with a question? My old wheels had disc breaks with the 6 bolt attachment. I bought new wheels with centrelock hubs. Would there be any compatibility issues with changing my Disc rotor from 6 bolt to rotor? I have TRP Spyre C breaks. I've purchased centrelock rotors but haven't received them yet.
No, swap to the CL rotors and you're good to go. May be a small + or - difference in the diameter that requires adjustment but other than that the centerline of the rotor is identical.
how do i decide the diameter of rotors for a tadpole tricycle weighing 250kg(with riders). velocity and braking distance is also specified as 8.5m/s and 4.5m
Braking power is not transferred by bolts. In both systems it is friction fit by friction coefficient of alloys. And play with loose bolts can lead in worst case scenario to radial eccentricity of about 0.2mm which does not matter at all as only thing you care with brakes is lateral play. I would choose 6 bolts because it is simpler, easier to repair if you screw up the thread and because it is just standard metric bolt and not proprietary thing which usually mean more expensive.
M8 cheap centerlock discs are as cheap as 6 bolt ones. I got 180mm centerlock discs for 7€ new. Surely not the best braking performance and only compatible with resin pads but then again 7€
Michał Szul Ok, you obviously hurried a bit when dropping this comment. "Braking power is not transferred by bolts"? How else do you think the braking force travels from the rotor to the hub? That's it, through the 6 bolts that fix them together. "The only play will lead to radial eccentricity". First thing first, they have play and center lock don't, that already makes CL better. "The only think that matters is lateral play". Bolts do have tendency to get lose, that's why you check on them; CL can get lose to, the difference is that the lock ring is not doing the work holding the rotor fixed to the hub. "6 bolt is simpler" No, it's not, there are 6 bolts which require to be torqued in specific sequence, vs 1 lock; appart from that, bolts strip, splines don't. "Proprietary usually means more expensive", yes and no. True that a lock ring costs more than a bolt, also true that some 6 bolts are cheaper because using CL means paying rights to Shimano; but that is only for low tier market (not bashing, I am a low tier rider, I know the ecosystem here), going up, you find 6 bolts just as expensive in the aftermarket world. In relation, if price is your concern, you got another reason to follow Shimano, since they have the best price/performance ratio compared to any "good name brands". Exception can be made for the taiwanese TRP and their mother company Tektro. In any case, my recommendation for anyone who works in his own bike is going with Shimano's center lock...if you pay a bike shop, it doesn matter because their advantages are in the workshop side rather than performance. Still Shimano has the best availability, except for SRAM in the US I guess. The only objective reason for going 6 bolts rather than center lock would be in case you specifically wanted a product that came in 6 bolts standard only, like a Magura or Hope system maybe; obviously, if you go for those brands, is because you don't care about costs, in which case I would still say go for center lock plus adapters, just in case you want to use a center lock rotor in the future... Or maybe being a weight weenie who really cared about the 90 grams extra on the center lock system, in all fairness, shaving 90 grams is quite nice. Sorry for resurrecting a Y.O. comment but somehow it was top, which was not good because any thing said was right, specially the first point about braking.
6-bolt is by far my preferred system. You obviously get choice beyond Shimano hubs and discs, and before you lot tell me other companies make CL bits, yes but they often cost extra to pay royalties or licensing fees. You don't need a quick release disc, it shouldn't be coming off and going on every other ride. Furthermore, 6 bolt rotors can (and this is totally not recommended nor condoned) run on just 3 bolts in an emergency situation. Those plentiful locking points give some wiggle room. The tool required makes 6 bolt more compatible with most riders as we all have a T25. Most of us have a cassette lockring tool but those requiring the 20 spline BB tool may find themselves having to buy a tool they'd otherwise never need, that style of BB is pretty much dead and buried. A 6-bolt hub and disc can be found dirt cheap, very useful if you find yourself requiring an emergency wheel just to get you out of trouble.
The screws do NOT have to hold the shear forces of braking, so there is no advantage of locking the rotor to the edge of the screws. Screw fastening works in a way that you apply torque to the screw which creates clamping force between the two surfaces and the friction between them prevents them to slip. If the surfaces are slipping on each other on typical load because the friction is not enough, sonner or later the screw will come loose and/or the threads will get damaged.
I know this comment is 6 years old, but I have to disagree, partially. I think friction is only part of it. There is no way that friction alone can hold the braking forces from the leverage of a wheel, furthermore a 29er. So locking the rotor edge to the screws is a great idea. I have seen this on a larger scale (automotive). A brake drum or disc on a car is held on by the lug nuts through the wheel but the drum rotates (a small amount) under braking and after a while its right up to the wheel studs.
It's not true exactly that the threads are transferring braking power. The threads are tensioned and the friction of the head of the bolts against the rotor surface and the hub surface transfer braking power. The bolts are not in shear, but in tension instead. Now if the bolts were not tightened properly, the threads would be doing exactly as you said.
@@lumpiangshanghai9502 yes, i got the same issue. Mine are bolts type, and ultegra or duraace rotor only offer center lock type. What rotor do you use on your hub bro? It’s hard to find bolts rotor in my country and very2 limited choice
Given the choice, I prefer Centerlock over 6-bolt for all the reasons you mention. Plus, as is mentioned below in the comments, You can fit a Centerlock hub to a 6-bolt rotor with an adapter, should you need to. In fact, I once upsized the rotor on a bike from 160mm to 180mm, and found it had center lock hubs adapted to a 6-bolt 160mm rotor. I bought a Centerlock 180mm rotor and it went on cleanly.
Center lock is the one with play. Because you can't tighten it enough for some reason without thin spacers (use ones from inside of old sprocket). My vote goes to 6 bolt system.
On my rotors (Shimano CL-compatible) there is printed minimum thickness so You have to measure rotor thickness at the edge (the part thats wears). If You measure less than You need to replace it. But different rotors may have different way of signaling the need of replacement.
I was just curious wcich one you prefer... :) On one of my bikes I had CL mount hubs and learned to appreciate them. I used two wheel sets and I could use the same rotors on both because it was a minute to move them over. With 6 bolt it was better to buy separate discs for both wheel sets there is no way to quickly exchange them... One more thing, if someone needs ultimate braking performance Shimano Freeza rotors are available centerlock only.
i dont know about you , but i have 180mm front , 180mm rear . i have a 29" but 203mm its fucking huge , i like 180mm more and i put 180mm in the front and rear as well . i have a shimano rt64 or 54 in the front and rt30 in the rear
Cant say that while having cl hubs and discs. Still noisy depending on pads and how dirty discs and pads are and also how much misalignment there is. Tho i never ever had noise with shimano xt m8000 brakes with resin pads that came with brakes and with smrt81 discs. Perfectly noisefree combo for me. At the same time got smrt81 on the back and b01s pads with mechanical brake on the back and its damn noisy. Gotta change that mechanical at some point for the hydraulic brakes, probably will take again m8000 brakes for the back.
Good hubs lock in rotors and don’t have that play your showing. At least with 6 bolts you can go find a replacement bolt quick and not need a “special tool” to replace my rotor.
You're full of crap with your comment. All hubs have "that play he's showing" whether 6 bolt or centerlock. Worse on 6 bolt, tad bit tighter on centerlock. There is clearance on both systems. If you're using 6 bolt, put your bolts in, rotate the rotor the direction that your brake pads will rotate it when stopping, snug them up there, then there is no movement. Centerlock, same deal. "Good hubs" don't exist then because they all have that "play he's showing". They all do. Clearance holes are drilled in the rotors, they're likely .2-.5 mm large, the bolts are M6 so ~5.89mm diameter so the disc flange holes are anywhere between 6.2 and 6.5 (standard) diameter. AKA... there's ALWAYS slop and your comment is inane, and WORSE, 4 people UPVOTED YOU!?!?!? Well done....
0:48 "Quite often ront disc brake rotor is larger because there is much more breaking power in the front" Do you mean you NEED more breaking power in the front? Because otherwise that sentence doesn't make any sense to me.
As you brake, weight is transferred to the front, so more braking power is needed/possible. This is why the front brakes of your car actually do 60-70% of the total braking.
I am a senior mechanical engineer and I wanted to correct one misconception. As one other astute person tried to explain, 6 bolt rotors, with properly torqed screws (6.4Nm) transfer their torque through the static friction between the rotor plate and the hub, NOT through the bolt threads. When designing any interface where bolts will be under sheer stress, it is crytical to specify enough torque so the two parts being joined can not slide. I can't say whether 6 bolt or CL is stronger without knowing the material properties and exact dimensions, but I can say both are strong enough. I think 6 bolt interfaces will be around for a long time.
Out in the wild, the 6-bolt interface is likely to be contaminated by lubricant seepage. What is true, though, is the braking force is primarily sheer force, not pullout force. The threads will hold up forever.
Thanks for making it, its not expensive, and it has lot of design.
This is how videos should be made regardless of subject matter. No headbanger music, gratuitous editing nonsense, experimentation, just information! I suffered through an 18 minute video in how to clean a chain only because I wanted to know how anyone could waste 18 minutes of his life (and mine) in a 6-7 minute procedure. Thank you sickbiker.
Here are some more benefits of the Center-Lock system. You can mount a 6-Bolt (IS) rotor on a Center-Lock hub with an adapter. The opposite cross-compatibility is not possible (CL rotor on an IS hub).
This makes the Center-Lock really good standard, as the more expensive and complex component (the hub) is actually compatible with both standards.
Another advantage of the Center-Lock system is the more robust locking ring. It is way much easier to damage the threads of a 6-Bolt hub or the bolts themselves.
My bike front wheel doesnt have a 6 bolt thing, is there like a tool i can buy that fits and then i can put the brake? Of so what's the name of that piece please and thanks
My bike has 1 hex bolt with a stripped out hex hole on each wheel for the brake rotors so yeah, center lock does seem like a God send for anyone, not just me. I can't get those bolts out for the life of me. But why do budget ("Wal-Mart") bike manufacturers choose the 6-bolt as the standard if center lock is so much better?
Just to clarify:
There's not much pull-out force in this application for either type of adapter.
For the 6-bolt, the force on the bolts will be a sheer force. It will be offset by the friction between the rotor and the mount. The CL style is likely stronger, but the reality is I have high doubts either system would fail.
Careful here! Dangerous half knowledge. The 6 bolt system does NOT transfer the breaking power over the threads. It is a flange, a circular pattern of screws, which is creating alot of pressure and therefore friction between the rotor and the mountingsurface. If mounted correctly, with tight bolts, a flange transfers torsional power with that friction. Not with the bolts. Same thing with the wheels on your car. Not the bolts transfer the power, it is the friction between the wheel and the mounting surface.
been watching you since 2k subs keep doing a great job
Very detailed and straight forward. Thank you for the video.
thank you for information. It has helped me. "Keep it in the big chain ring!!" That translates to" stay strong and fast"
Thank you so much. Exactly what I am looking for.
Hi, can you replace a small diameter to a big diameter size rotors?. Thanks
Any suggestions for a universal dust cap to fit both back and front hub??
when can we expect in depth review of sora r3000 groupset and comparing it to higher end groupsets like you did before??
is it true that center lock hubs are better and more durable than bolt type? im going to get shimano hubs
I had a wheel build done recently which, because the hubs I needed only come with the 6-bolt option, necessitated a change from centre-lock to 6-bolt. I went from SM RT81's to SM RT86's. The standard Shimano bolts are pretty cheap and rattle about in the hubs. They allow a lot of disc movement before tightening too. I used Hope bolts in the hubs instead (the hubs are Hope Pro 4, SCS standard) and these are a much more precise fit as well a allowing much less disc 'slop' before tightening. No alignment issues and braking performance is exactly as before. No need to use those 'dog bone' washers that come with the discs. The standard bolts are rather wimpy looking items, probably to compensate for the washer thickness and avoid clearance problems. I torqued the Hope bolts up to 5Nm as advised by Hope, rather than the low 2 - 4 Nm Shimano specify because of their bolts' skimpy heads.
This is really good info the last thing I need is to buy the wrong disc brake for when I switch, like I did when I bought Campy wheels I bought a cassette that fit but not the lock ring, then not paying attention bought the wrong lock ring and finally got the right lock ring.
Great video! I never thought about how the braking force is actually transferred and it really makes you think about how centerlock is much better in that manner.
Why then do most downhillers favour 6 bolt?
@@wangdangdoodie If the hubs you want to run only come in 6 bolt, get them. "Downhillers" don't favor anything. They may tend to run 6 bolt because there are more options in 6 bolt and that appeals to the general masses (public). Centerlock was developed by Shimano for the same reason it exists in automobile racing, its faster to undo 1 nut, than 6. Other than that, if you're not racing... its whatever. Both systems are completely adequate for anything your fat ass can throw at it on A MASSIVE DOWNHILL BRUH ROFLCOPTER?!
Great video Dany 👍
Hello, what brand of torque wrench do you use, I would like to buy one, but there are many brands on the market
For me its the opposite I do have play on the center lock always has play in rotor don't know if that is normal? but on my 6 bolt rotor does not have any play on the rotor.
What are the little silver lining things that come with the rotor
I have wheels for 6 bolt, can I put a center lock on it with an adaptor or?
is there a difference in how far away from the NDS chainstay the rotor sits with either system? does centerlock make the rotor disc sit further out from the hub than a 6-bolt system?
Hi...my hybrid has 160 rotors...if I upgrade the front to a 180 with a spacer will it make a difference...thanks
Does anyone know, empirically, if it is possible to combine Centerlock hubs and discs with SRAM shifters on a gravel bike, without issues? I vaguely remember, I had Magura Martha brakes on My Cannondale Caffeine a while ago, but after the rear calliper leaked oil, upgraded to Shimano XTR, but kept the wheel and the Magura 6-bolt rotor with little or no issues. Now I'm interested in the reverse: to keep the SRAM Rival shifters and derailleurs on My soon-to-be-procured gravel bike, but change the hubs / wheels and the rotors after a while (I'm not a fan of the 6-bolt interface).
Hello mr shai
I'm new to your channel. I just need some advice from you please sir. What is your opinion on the canyon Endurace AL 6.0 bike?. I am looking for a good aluminum frame endurance road bike. So what do you think about the Endurace?, and also what other bikes should I look at?
Which is lighter set up for a road bike - center lock or 6 bolt for a QR style wheel?
Which tool do I need for 160 center lock rotors? Would a standard square tapered bb tool work? Thanks!!
My bike is centerlock brake rotor. Can I use bike hub which is compatible to six bolt brake rotor? Do I need an adaptor? salamatssss...
thanks a lot, you're so helpful ❤
Thanks, another great video :)
Which one is expensive? Will the difference in price a big deal? Hub with central lock is more expensive?
I never liked the arguement of the 6 bolts being slow to be changed... Like how often do you change your brake rotors that it affects you that much?
great explanation, thank you
what if you use metallic pads with resin only pads?
can u install disc break on Indian classic cycle
Centre lock will have play and creak a little when the bike is pushed back and forth with the brakes on. No big issues but something that’s not an issue on 6 bolt discs from what I see.
Thanks for the info👌🏾
can l use my vintage bike hub for discbrake?
what is deferent between disk SM-RT53 vs SM-RT54?
how to convert boost quick release to thru axle
Hi my friend, how are you ? Sorry for ask here, but this is the most recent video, so, i think here is better for get your answer...
I want to buy the Mavic Ksyrium Pro Exalith SL wheelset.
Reading the comments from the video, I saw that he sold his wheels. Any special reason? Recommended as wheels for training, day by day?
very helpful video
nice video... whats the weight difference?
Can you use threadlock on centerlock
I just recently found out that CL is a little lighter option than 6-bolt as well. 45-55 gram difference. Good to consider when trying to save weight on a new wheelset.
can you show us how to go form 180 to 203 mm disc please
The CL rotor locking mechanism has a great advantage for an amateur mechanic without a torque wrench, as it's enormously hard to strip the threads by force.
I've used CL hubs before, but I switched to the 6-bolt XT hubs for my winter XC bike because (at least the old CL version of) XT hubs have one less gasket on the rotor side and I wanted to get as much protection against the salty road slush as possible. 5 winters and the hubs are still running smoothly. But I really miss the ability to switch the rotors in 30 seconds and already have one of the threads in the aluminum hub destroyed by the galvanic corrosion (I use steel rotor bolts).
That's funny cause as an amateur mechanic trying to get my 16 notch center lock rotor off my hub without any progress I disagree.
I use the rear brake more often than the front one, would it be a good idea to replace my 160mm rear rotor with a 180mm to have the same size on both hubs?
No, 160mm rotors have enough power. If you can lock up the rear wheel, you have more than enough power.
plz shaibike do a video on the front derailieur mounts
One downside to Centerlock I've heard from wheel builders concerns the hub bearings. Six-bolt hubs have enough room to make use of bigger hub bearings, which tend to be more durable; Centerlock hubs limit this.
I don't think that the durability of the bearings is a problem but you like to have bigger axles (QR 15 or 20) that have less flex and better mounting.
Motorcycles discs are mounted similar to the 6 screw system, so technicly both systems are good- it's just that you like to stick with 1 rather then to have discs and hubs/ wheels for 2 different systems.
Good info.
If you use the 6-bolt system, make sure to use blue loctite on the bolt threads. New bolts should already have this on them.
Anything on centerlock?
the distribution of force is a good observation.
curves, archs and circles in architecture and engineering are far stronger than straight lines and squares because they former is better at evenly distributing the weight.
Center Lock discs will provide consistently smoother braking and distribute that turbulence evenly among the entire wheel.
While the same can be achieved with 6 bolts it requires precise tigjtening of each bolt in relation to each other. Which is a tall order
Unless your changing your rotors several times a day I don't see any advantage of the centre lock. I actually almost cross threaded the locking cap one time, you have to be really careful getting it started, I think I would choose the 6 bolt to be honest, never had a problem with them and its not that much more time to take 6 small bolts out and much more rotor options out there.
Thanks for the video.
Currently assembling a hard tail mountain bike and I have 180 rotor up front and 160 rotor at the back, both center locked. My question is what kind of caliper adapters do I need for each? Both fork and frame are post mount style. I could only find adapters for 180 rotors, but not so much on 160 rotors.
good video. thank you
Very nice video... Sir I have 6 bolt hub can I upgrade it to center lock?
Yes, you can, but you have to change your hub
i use small washers on the 6 bolts and its great
my car disk brakes are slipped over the wheel studs and held on by the wheel and lug nuts. There is some play in that system as well. It doesn't seem to cause any problems there, for normal road driving.
Race cars use what are called floating rotors, which seem much more like the centerlock setup, but they do that to help keep wheel bearing cooler, and to allow for some movement of the rotors as they warm up. neither of those things seems like it would be highly critical for a bicycle.
One thing is sure.. The 6 bolt rotor is cheaper to buy and the choice is much better..
So either 6 hole hub or centre lick with 6 hole blade adapter.. If you want more choice and to have less running costs..
There is any problem if I switch between two wheelset one with Cl and the other with 6 BOLTS Both with the same rotors dimension and using the same bike? My idea is have one set with 700x28c and other for gravel with 700x35c
Shouldn't be any. Maybe they both will not be at the precisely the same position (we are talking about a fraction of mm) and there can be some light friction from one side but there are 2 solutions of the problem:
you can pull the brake pistons back to the calipers and then they will be spontaneously auto-centered (taking into account modern hydraulic systems)
or you can use thin spacers, for example these from Syntace: www.syntace.com/index.cfm?pid=3&pk=757
to obtain equal offset
I had the problem of thinking that centrelock discs or rotors are all the same. I have a Sram set up and tried to fit new rotors. The rotors were Shimanos system which is different to Sram so would not fit. They both have the same way the disc slides on but the nuts are different types. I made a video to explain this difference. I hope it helps others.
Could you help me with a question?
My old wheels had disc breaks with the 6 bolt attachment. I bought new wheels with centrelock hubs.
Would there be any compatibility issues with changing my Disc rotor from 6 bolt to rotor? I have TRP Spyre C breaks.
I've purchased centrelock rotors but haven't received them yet.
No, swap to the CL rotors and you're good to go. May be a small + or - difference in the diameter that requires adjustment but other than that the centerline of the rotor is identical.
Name of that tool at 3:29 please...
how do i decide the diameter of rotors for a tadpole tricycle weighing 250kg(with riders). velocity and braking distance is also specified as 8.5m/s and 4.5m
Bigger is better 😉 go for 203
250kg? Are you transporting an elephant?
Thank you
if i have 6 bolt system and i want to have center log system how do i do it ????(sorry for bad english)
u need to change the hub itself, either for center lock or bolt.
Centre lock was made for quick ensemble for the cycle industry .
Braking power is not transferred by bolts. In both systems it is friction fit by friction coefficient of alloys.
And play with loose bolts can lead in worst case scenario to radial eccentricity of about 0.2mm which does not matter at all as only thing you care with brakes is lateral play.
I would choose 6 bolts because it is simpler, easier to repair if you screw up the thread and because it is just standard metric bolt and not proprietary thing which usually mean more expensive.
M8 cheap centerlock discs are as cheap as 6 bolt ones. I got 180mm centerlock discs for 7€ new. Surely not the best braking performance and only compatible with resin pads but then again 7€
Michał Szul Ok, you obviously hurried a bit when dropping this comment.
"Braking power is not transferred by bolts"? How else do you think the braking force travels from the rotor to the hub? That's it, through the 6 bolts that fix them together.
"The only play will lead to radial eccentricity". First thing first, they have play and center lock don't, that already makes CL better.
"The only think that matters is lateral play". Bolts do have tendency to get lose, that's why you check on them; CL can get lose to, the difference is that the lock ring is not doing the work holding the rotor fixed to the hub.
"6 bolt is simpler" No, it's not, there are 6 bolts which require to be torqued in specific sequence, vs 1 lock; appart from that, bolts strip, splines don't.
"Proprietary usually means more expensive", yes and no. True that a lock ring costs more than a bolt, also true that some 6 bolts are cheaper because using CL means paying rights to Shimano; but that is only for low tier market (not bashing, I am a low tier rider, I know the ecosystem here), going up, you find 6 bolts just as expensive in the aftermarket world.
In relation, if price is your concern, you got another reason to follow Shimano, since they have the best price/performance ratio compared to any "good name brands". Exception can be made for the taiwanese TRP and their mother company Tektro.
In any case, my recommendation for anyone who works in his own bike is going with Shimano's center lock...if you pay a bike shop, it doesn matter because their advantages are in the workshop side rather than performance. Still Shimano has the best availability, except for SRAM in the US I guess.
The only objective reason for going 6 bolts rather than center lock would be in case you specifically wanted a product that came in 6 bolts standard only, like a Magura or Hope system maybe; obviously, if you go for those brands, is because you don't care about costs, in which case I would still say go for center lock plus adapters, just in case you want to use a center lock rotor in the future... Or maybe being a weight weenie who really cared about the 90 grams extra on the center lock system, in all fairness, shaving 90 grams is quite nice.
Sorry for resurrecting a Y.O. comment but somehow it was top, which was not good because any thing said was right, specially the first point about braking.
why are we seeing only half of the rotor ?
6-bolt is by far my preferred system. You obviously get choice beyond Shimano hubs and discs, and before you lot tell me other companies make CL bits, yes but they often cost extra to pay royalties or licensing fees.
You don't need a quick release disc, it shouldn't be coming off and going on every other ride. Furthermore, 6 bolt rotors can (and this is totally not recommended nor condoned) run on just 3 bolts in an emergency situation. Those plentiful locking points give some wiggle room.
The tool required makes 6 bolt more compatible with most riders as we all have a T25. Most of us have a cassette lockring tool but those requiring the 20 spline BB tool may find themselves having to buy a tool they'd otherwise never need, that style of BB is pretty much dead and buried.
A 6-bolt hub and disc can be found dirt cheap, very useful if you find yourself requiring an emergency wheel just to get you out of trouble.
The screws do NOT have to hold the shear forces of braking, so there is no advantage of locking the rotor to the edge of the screws. Screw fastening works in a way that you apply torque to the screw which creates clamping force between the two surfaces and the friction between them prevents them to slip. If the surfaces are slipping on each other on typical load because the friction is not enough, sonner or later the screw will come loose and/or the threads will get damaged.
I know this comment is 6 years old, but I have to disagree, partially. I think friction is only part of it. There is no way that friction alone can hold the braking forces from the leverage of a wheel, furthermore a 29er. So locking the rotor edge to the screws is a great idea. I have seen this on a larger scale (automotive). A brake drum or disc on a car is held on by the lug nuts through the wheel but the drum rotates (a small amount) under braking and after a while its right up to the wheel studs.
It's not true exactly that the threads are transferring braking power. The threads are tensioned and the friction of the head of the bolts against the rotor surface and the hub surface transfer braking power. The bolts are not in shear, but in tension instead. Now if the bolts were not tightened properly, the threads would be doing exactly as you said.
Not sure I agree with which is better. Simply because 6 bolt disc is one piece and less prone to failure
I got centre lock but I see a lot of people use the one with bolts so I bought adapters to convert them to center lock to a bolt one
Is there a way to do it vice versa? Ultegra rotors only offer center lock ones and my hubs are bolt types
@@lumpiangshanghai9502 yes, i got the same issue. Mine are bolts type, and ultegra or duraace rotor only offer center lock type. What rotor do you use on your hub bro? It’s hard to find bolts rotor in my country and very2 limited choice
Your vids are always interesting even if your opinions are wrong
Biased in favor of cl.
The bottom bracket tool you showed was incorrect, it was a external spline tool the proper bb tool is internal spline tool
Bravo 👏 et Merci.......
Given the choice, I prefer Centerlock over 6-bolt for all the reasons you mention. Plus, as is mentioned below in the comments, You can fit a Centerlock hub to a 6-bolt rotor with an adapter, should you need to. In fact, I once upsized the rotor on a bike from 160mm to 180mm, and found it had center lock hubs adapted to a 6-bolt 160mm rotor. I bought a Centerlock 180mm rotor and it went on cleanly.
But also the calipers can be changed
Center lock is the one with play. Because you can't tighten it enough for some reason without thin spacers (use ones from inside of old sprocket).
My vote goes to 6 bolt system.
i have found center lock to have more play as well
thank you know I know more about my scooter :)
Why are centerlocks so rare on DH bikes?
PS. I have never had an issue with 6-bolt system moving.
The 6 bolt system is most likely stronger. If you look at motorcycles, their brake rotors are mounted with 6 or 8 bolts in a similar fashion.
I'm happy either way, centrelock or 6 bolt. Rapid changing of a brake disk is not an issue for me. Used both systems with equal success.
thx
When should you replace the rotor? Wheres the wear indicator?
On my rotors (Shimano CL-compatible) there is printed minimum thickness so You have to measure rotor thickness at the edge (the part thats wears). If You measure less than You need to replace it. But different rotors may have different way of signaling the need of replacement.
Shimano smrt81 cl brake disc manual said to measure disc thickness, if its lower than minimum specified, you need to replace.
You know the slack will be taken up first time you hit the brakes right? You really just have to bolt it on and torque it evenly.
I was just curious wcich one you prefer... :) On one of my bikes I had CL mount hubs and learned to appreciate them. I used two wheel sets and I could use the same rotors on both because it was a minute to move them over. With 6 bolt it was better to buy separate discs for both wheel sets there is no way to quickly exchange them...
One more thing, if someone needs ultimate braking performance Shimano Freeza rotors are available centerlock only.
Maybe you should convert you car's discs to centerlock if you think 6 bolt fitting is a bad choice
Like an F1 car?
Привет! Это очевидно, то что centerlock лучше! Быстро можно снять и стоит точно по центру 🎯!
i dont know about you , but i have 180mm front , 180mm rear . i have a 29" but 203mm its fucking huge , i like 180mm more and i put 180mm in the front and rear as well . i have a shimano rt64 or 54 in the front and rt30 in the rear
You shows a wrong wrench for centrlock. For larger nut you should use extrenal bottom bracket wrench which compatible with shimano/sram BB.
Exactly, thank you!
हाय आय एम ऋषिकेश महादेव विलेज नेम Tandur
प्लीज give me to this break he is my humble request
Szajbajk!!! :)
Do You reply for emails mate?
Yup, around 20 out of 200 coming each day...
6 bolts rotor design, if bolts do not have treadlocker on them, should use blue threadlocker put on them after cleaned.
over time the splines of the center lick wears out from braking and pretty soon you notice play in the splines.
Never had such problem over freaking 3 years of a lot of driving in various conditions. Tho nothing is made to last forever, not even 6 bolt system.
Does centerlock have an advantage in terms of noise reduction?
Cant say that while having cl hubs and discs. Still noisy depending on pads and how dirty discs and pads are and also how much misalignment there is. Tho i never ever had noise with shimano xt m8000 brakes with resin pads that came with brakes and with smrt81 discs. Perfectly noisefree combo for me. At the same time got smrt81 on the back and b01s pads with mechanical brake on the back and its damn noisy. Gotta change that mechanical at some point for the hydraulic brakes, probably will take again m8000 brakes for the back.
Good hubs lock in rotors and don’t have that play your showing.
At least with 6 bolts you can go find a replacement bolt quick and not need a “special tool” to replace my rotor.
You're full of crap with your comment. All hubs have "that play he's showing" whether 6 bolt or centerlock. Worse on 6 bolt, tad bit tighter on centerlock. There is clearance on both systems. If you're using 6 bolt, put your bolts in, rotate the rotor the direction that your brake pads will rotate it when stopping, snug them up there, then there is no movement. Centerlock, same deal. "Good hubs" don't exist then because they all have that "play he's showing". They all do. Clearance holes are drilled in the rotors, they're likely .2-.5 mm large, the bolts are M6 so ~5.89mm diameter so the disc flange holes are anywhere between 6.2 and 6.5 (standard) diameter. AKA... there's ALWAYS slop and your comment is inane, and WORSE, 4 people UPVOTED YOU!?!?!? Well done....
0:48 "Quite often ront disc brake rotor is larger because there is much more breaking power in the front" Do you mean you NEED more breaking power in the front? Because otherwise that sentence doesn't make any sense to me.
As you brake, weight is transferred to the front, so more braking power is needed/possible. This is why the front brakes of your car actually do 60-70% of the total braking.
New technology is always better