The Messed Up Origins of Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 05. 2024
- Head to squarespace.com/jonsolo to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code JONSOLO! Thanks to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode!
👕 Shop the Underworld Overlords Drop! 👉 meremortals.store
► Messed Up Origins™ Socials!
» TikTok: / messeduporigins
» Instagram: / messeduporigins
» Facebook Fan Page: / therealjonsolo
» Twitter: / messeduporigins
▼ Podcast Links! ▼
» Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
» Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/0zC1NxC...
» Google Podcasts: www.google.com/podcasts?feed=...
» Amazon Music: music.amazon.com/podcasts/e2a...
» Stitcher: www.stitcher.com/podcast/jon-...
» iHeartRadio: iheart.com/podcast/99117988/
▼ Timestamps ▼
» 0:00 - Who is Mary?
» 0:51 - The Rhyme
» 5:21 - Mother Mary
» 8:06 - Bloody Mary
► Want more?
» ALL Messed Up Origins: bit.ly/MessedUpOrigins
» Featured Folklore (the animated series!): bit.ly/featuredfolklore
» Disney Explained: bit.ly/DisneyExplained
» ALL Mythology Explained: bit.ly/MythologyExplained
» Norse Mythology: bit.ly/NorseMythologyExplained
» Folklore Explained: bit.ly/FablesExplained
» Astrology: bit.ly/AstrologyExplained
» Messed Up Murders: bit.ly/MurderPlaylist
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
► Social Media:
» Twitter: / jonsolo
» Instagram: / jonsolo
» Official Subreddit: / jonsolo
► Join the Official Channel Discord:
» / jonsolo
► Send Fan Mail to:
» SoloFamMail@gmail.com
► Business:
» biz@MessedUpOrigins.com (Business Inquiries ONLY)
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
▼ Credits ▼
» Researched by Steven Merrell / stevenmerrell5
» Produced, Directed, & Edited by: Jon Solo
▼ Resources ▼
» my favorites: messeduporigins.com/books
» The Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes: Iona & Peter Opie
» www.thoughtco.com/classic-nur...
» americansongwriter.com/meanin...
▼ Art Sources ▼
» If I used your art in any portion of this video please send a message to my business email with proof that you're the original artist so I can give you credit!
#nurseryrhymes #history #royalfamily
Which theory for Mary's origins do YOU like the best? And which Nursery Rhymes should we cover next?
I can’t think of any nursery rhymes at the moment, but could you cover the messed up origins of Stuart Little, Charlotte’s Web, The Sword in the Stone and The Black Cauldron? Stuart wasn’t even a mouse in the original book by E.B. White!
London’s bridge is fallen down.
I think you should do Little Jack Horner, the Itsy, bitsy Spider, and old king cole next.
Mary Queen of Scots. Have you seen the Messed up origins of Mother Goose? It from the 50s (I'm not that old) I grew up with that version of truth. You can find it here on CZcams.
Aiken Drum, Yankee Doodle Dandy, and Old McDonald Had A Farm. I’ve always wondered why that man had so many animals.
I think you've missed the part that "cockle shells" are also a type of flower. The song could literally just be asking how a garden can grow properly if you don't properly sort out the different types of flowers. Putting silver bells, cockle shells, and marigolds (another very common version of the last line) all together in a row rather than (AKA contrary to) the more common practice of separating and spreading them out into separate flower beds.
Edit: I have also learned that there's actually a type of flower called "pretty maid".
You know... that's the most likely theory about this rhyme that i ever heard!
When looking into this, I've found a few different plants named cockle or cockleshell, which are you referring to? The one known also as darnel seems the most plausible as it was considered a weed then. As for silver bells, I'm finding only a tree by that nickname from the Americas and southeast China, which gives me doubt these are the correct plants. If you could provide any other (preferably the genus), I would like to look further into this theory.
@@Sivos909The difference between a weed and a flower/ plant is a weed chokes out the natural flora. So a weed in the UK might not be considered a weed elsewhere.
@@Sivos909 There's also a type of bellflower called silver bells that seem to be native to Asia and parts of eastern Europe. That said, adding "exotic" flowers to a garden is fairly common for various reasons.
I always thought this was the case. A rhyme teaching kids to be tidy, sort your flowers, keep it organized.
Mary Queen of Scots was Mary’s cousin
True. 1st cousin once removed as Mary I was the 1st cousin of James V of Scotland Dad of Mary Queen of Scots.
Guess I forgot to mention that! The section I wrote for her was titled “Cousin Mary” in my notes so in my head their relation was established. whoops
I remember watching an old film by Walt Disney that did some history on some of the Mother Goose rhymes and their take on "Mary, Mary" was that it was about Mary, Queen of Scots and her lavish lifestyle.
That's it. I remember that one, too.
Yep. Not exactly rocket science.
And the pretty maids referred to the Four Marys (her ladies in waiting)
Disney is also the company that started the myth about lemmings jumping off cliffs, so I'll take any of their supposed nonfiction films with a whole barge of salt. They never let facts get in the way of a good story.
Was looking for this comment.
Mary Tudor never left England. She could speak Spanish (among several languages), she had lots of letters from Spanish relatives delivered by the Spanish ambassador, she ultimately married a Spanish cousin who later became the King of Spain, but she never left English soil in her life.
Was looking to see if anyone mentioned this
@melissagastorf3664 Yep, me too.
I remember it from "The Secret Garden".... Marry was teased with this rhyme and didn't like being referred to as "contrary".
But she was very contrary lol
@@cristlejohnson4900 😂 and she didn't wanna hear it
I remember an old Disney cartoon that tried to explain this rhyme by suggesting the theory of Mary, Queen of Scots. They also covered Little Jack Horner.
I love gardening and it was my understanding that Silver Bells are a Tree that produces large white Bell flowers also called the Mountain Silverbell. Cockleshells are a flower that is either white or Magenta. The "Pretty Maids" term actually stands for a few flowers, some think that it is Baby's Breath, there is also a flower called the "Old Maid" (which is a cute pink flower with a very soft scent), Or Gypsophila (also called Chickweeds), as well as the Dicentra (or Bleeding Heart).
I was literally just singing this to myself with “The Secret Garden” movie scene in mind, and wondering what the origins were…. I couldn’t believe it when I got the notification for this lol the Universe is listening. Thank you for saving me a Google search.
I first heard this from dice clay... "mary mary, quite contrary, shave that kitty, it's so damn hairy!" I'm amazed that i made it to almost 40 before i learned the true version, lol.
that's so funny that you heard this from Dice first! I didn't hear ADC until I was in high school (90s) from our neighbor. 😂😂😂
😂
This is so damn funny!
😂
@@JasonTate08😂😂😂Before there was a Bill burr, Andrew definitely ruffled the comedy scene.
(Credit song plays)
(Me freaking out thinking my brain blanked out for at least 10 minutes)
Dude it happens to me all the time though where I have to rewatch a video 3 times cause I blank out😂
Hbhgg
I think I actually have an explanation for the cockleshells part of the rhyme. It used to be a very common practice to use shells from things like oysters, clams, and cockles as gravel for roads and paths. Seriously, if you go to certain historical homes or sites (especially colonial sites near the east coast), you can see those shells still being used by preservationists to keep the pathways paved. So, the cockleshells in the rhyme are probably referring to what Mary used to pave her garden path.
My guess on the silver bells is that they were some sort of wind chime. Wind chimes, specifically bell wind chimes, have been in use since at least Roman times where they were known as a "tintinnabulum." So, Mary was probably setting up "silver bells" as wind chimes.
Not too sure about the "pretty maids all in a row," but, considering how the line is sometimes substituted for things like "cowslips," my guess is that "pretty maids" may have been an old or even regional term for some sort of flower. In fact, one of the alternate names for cowslips is "petty mulleins" which sounds a bit like "pretty maidens" when you say it out loud. Just a thought.
The cockleshell flower is most likely Agrostemma githago, the common corn-cockle. Silver bells is the Halesia carolina. Pretty maids are likely Gypsophila cerastioides. The rhyme is simply using colloquial names for the flowers. It seems Mary quite contrary was growing a rather unspectacular garden. They were common plants and Agrostemma was actually even considered a weed at one point. That's what makes her contrary. Growing flowering weeds in her garden instead of fancy plants like the nobles might. A pretty but frugal flower garden of mundane rubbish.
Or maybe she’s contrary because she lives outdoors and the weeds are her garden
@@stargatis - Yeah. Tangential to my own point. Contrary because she's bucking social norms. That's what I basically getting at.
I first heard this rhyme in a version of the Secret Garden but the ending was "marigolds all in a row"
I've always only ever heard of Bloody Mary. I didn't even know about the Virgin Mary theory, and the Mary Queen of Scots theory was usually tied to people mixing their Marys.
I always thought Mary Mary was a nursery rhyme about Mary Queen of Scots.
She wasn't exactly coopertive.
And was perhaps the most famous ruler in Scottish History.
Queen's also have many pretty maids all ina row to serve them.
I remember it from a mother goose book as a kid.
Jon, Mary didn’t live in Spain, but her mother did come from Spain, and taught her Spanish.
in my part of england, its thought to be mary I, silver bells and cockle shels being pilgrimage tokens for two of our english cathedrals and pritty maids being nuns. mary was insecure in her looks and sent several attractive aristo girls to be nuns, her husband was still alergic to fidelity
Had to sing some strange ones as a scottish kid 😅 would love to know if they have messed up origins
Skinnymalinkie Longlegs, Wee Willie Winkie, Ye cannae shove yer granny aff a’bus, Coulter’s Candy and if it wisnae fur yer wellies were some of my personal favourites 😊
I'd love to hear/read those
"Ye cannae shove yer granny aff a’bus" is still used as a public transport service announcement in Glasgow.
YES!!!😂😂😂😂 just for an American an trying to decipher/pronounce the words of them if nothing else
Also, I’m now going to have “cannae shove yer granny Aff a bus” in my head all day now 😂😂
As a young man who is 44, I learned about Mary Mary from Andrew Dice Clay sometime in the late eighties or early 90's. He definitely has the best version
I’ve first heard “Mary, Mary, quite contrary” that I can remember, from Merry Go ‘Round by Kacey Musgraves
Silver bells (narcissus triandrus) and cockle shells (prostechea cochleata) are both plants, but I doubt they would be growing together in an English garden...
Great video! I had heard the Mary Tudor theory where “silver bells and cockle shells and pretty maids all in a row” were all torture devices and the “garden” was a graveyard. The pretty maids were of course iron maidens, but I’ve also read that they were never more than an illustration, so idk.
That's the theory I remember as well, I don't remember what the cockleshells or silver bells referred to but I remember the video I watched or wherever I heard the theory did explain them. Kind of surprised Jon didn't mention that while talking about Mary Tudor.
It was based on Mary Queen of Scotts. The cousin of Queen Elizabeth.
I remember Mary’s origins was from a Disney cartoon called The Truth About Mother Goose in 1957. They said that Mary’s origin was based on Mary, Queen of Scots, also known as Mary Stuart.
Oooooo no !
Not Mary ! That one night was was quite contrary !
I immediately looked up a pdf of the OG Tommy Thumb book and the foreword is so wonderful. It's very clear the author loved not only their children, but children's desire to learn as well as her undying love for her nurse.
Gotta say though, soft "s" being written as "f" was a little difficult to get my head around at first.
Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Awesome as always thanks
This was fascinating, thanks!
I always find your commentary so interesting and New 🎉😂 thank you for sharing 🙏❤
And DAYUM did you nerd out on this one. I admire your research skills, really. Very well done.
Absolutely Beautiful! I was all tears too laydeeeee! 🥰
Heard this and read it from a book over 70 years ago.❤❤❤
Jon solo I truly enjoy your videos thank you
This is something I have never heard of. This will be interesting.
I've never caught a video in the first 10 minutes before I'm so excited lmao
Two things:
One; can't believe that reference to Big Comfy Couch at the end. Ha, didn't think anyone remembered that.
Two; my ancestor, a protestant reverend, was one of those martyrs under Queen Mary. I have to fact check on whether it was Tudor or Scotts.
When the rhythm said "cockle shells" made me think of "She Sells Sea Shells by the Sea Shore" and the origin of that
I first heard this rhyme from Max and Ruby 😂 great video!
The smirk after mentioning the loosest of anything of all time right before mentioning a wife sleeping around, it tells me you have very high brow humor. I like it.
🤣the end credits omg(oodness) Jon
Oh, that first "ending" really got me! 😂
I first heard the rhyme from my mother. She sang the rhyme to me when I was tiny and continued to sing it to me later whenever I was "difficult".
😅😅😅 2:08 i laughed out loud way too hard at the premature credit roll.... I need to go outside.... But the spores, THE SPORESSSSSS!
I used to love The Secret Garden 1993 when I was younger. I would watch it over and over.
The Secret Garden is actually where I first recall hearing this rhyme. 😂 I'm glad you put it in. It certainly is a strange rhyme. 🤔 Thanks for the video! Keep up the great work! 😁
Ahhh you got me I thought it was over at 2:05 😂😂
For some reason, your videos don’t come up on my TL, anymore this is the first video I’m seeing in months!
The only time of ever heard of this rhyme was in muppet baby’s show
6:48 this voice over reminds me of fallout that would be a good messed up origins. I can’t wait to see the show. I think it’s going to be good.
Your delivery
😂😂😂
Between you and Bumblebee Elite, I'm learning so much about the early Royals of England.
I heard that the "pretty maids" were a reference to iron madness and it was about the persecution of protestants.
You totally answered the question for me... It was the Secret Garden!! Never in a book or at school
Yeah I'd like to see more of these types of messed up origins! What happened to the intro music?
when you started with Luna and Molly my soul felt punched by that nostalgia x'D who else did the clock stretch, hopped on your couch at the end of an episode and tried to do the swift pickup and reminded Luna she made the mess? :'3 that was a fun show
Mary was a 304 😂 she putting her garden out there to get fertilized
'Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary' was in our Childcraft book set at home. 🐚🐚🌷🌷🌸💮🌸💮🌸🌷🌷🐚🐚
I think this is about a little girl who has a contrarian attitude and loves gardening.
I always figured it was asking how Mary's garden was doing so well and the shells were putting nutrients into the soil. Like people do with egg shells now.
I was gonna freak out if you didn't include The Secret Garden but you did good my boi 👏🏻👏🏻
The Secret Garden!!! That clip right at the beginning! That's how I know it =:)
I have a Childcraft book with a bunch of nursery rhymes in it. That's how I know any rhyme. And a book of Mother Gooses rhymes at my grandparents' house from like eighty years ago.
My mom used to sing that to me. 😂 Pretty sure she didn't know about it. She would change it to Terri Terri quite contrary. 😂😂😂
Oft back to the nursery rhymes. This has made my crappy week a bit better.
Thanks Jon.
Animal Flow by Ren
“Oh, Mary, Mary, quite contrary how your blood it flows”
Jesus Christ Superstar was an absolute banger! Judas and Jesus from the original version were absolutely amazing
@JonSolo love your videos and got my niece hooked as well! Thank you❤🎉 please can you do some South Africa episodes would really love to have my neice Rebecca hear something cool from her own country ❤
i live in a town called St.James for a bit nice to know a little about him
John it's not sometimes the the cuckoo always leaves its eggs in other bird's nest.
I actually first heard it from The Secret Garden!
I know this story from a Mother Goose VHS tape. It was mine and my sisters favorite when we where very little then we used played every time we babysat anyone else’s kids. So well into our teenage years this tape was played. It had all the nursery rhymes you cover and sound. I’ve never heard you cover.
Love that we basically got "the messed up origins of SIX : the musical" lol
Side thoughts, had no idea I would learn the origins of "Cuck". This series always surprises me.
Maybe the shells are literal, a known fertilizer for ages is smashing up seashells and applying the powder to soil.
oooohhhh THAT jesus
0:14 I actually just burst out laughing because you said you'd be impressed if someone could tell you where they know the rhyme from, and just as I was about to type in the 1993 version of "The Secret Garden" that I grew up with, you threw up the clip from it. haha
i had a vhs of mother goose rhymes and that's my first memory of 'mary mary' it was just about a lady and her garden!
Dude killed it in 2:06 lolz 😂
Oh that’s farm for a little princess or something that I kind of reminds me of the line with your temple
😮Not Syphilis 😂it could bring a Gonnarealization!
I first heard this rhyme in the film Rudy where he tried to use it as a come on line.
Well I don't know that much about Mary myself either or what she does or what she did with her real life or Origins but thanks to Jon solo himself he always out here telling the truth of the origins of folklore and much more
I first heard it on a video called Mother Goose Stories(?) with Mother Goose and her giant talking goose… they went through different rhymes.
But as for the meaning of the rhyme? I just always assumed it was a snarky reply to some nosy neighbour. (Though, really, the floral names theory I saw in the comments elsewhere does seem more likely, but I’m not big on flowers, so I didn’t even think that.)
But I thought of it like when you throw out a sass-back “Yeah, I use silver bells and cockles, and have pretty maidens doing the can-can over them to make them grow”
I had a giant Mother Goose book when I grew up, and everyone in my family can sing. So, if you hadn’t read it, you were probably singing it on the playground. But, my parents both read as did my brother and I.
I remember hearing that is was based on Bloody Mary and the ‘silver bells and cockle shells’ were instruments of torture used on the Protestants. Silver bells were thumb screws - can’t remember what cockle shells are code for though.
I did learn the rhythm from The Secret Garden which came out orginally in 1911 so least that helped many generations after it
The thumbnail image had me really looking forward to an alien theory.
Maybe it's just me, but I like the version from the Silly Symphony The Truth About Mother Goose.
JON: Six years of queening.
ME: STOP MAKING FUN OF ME!!!
I wonder if the "cockle shells" could also refer to the use of the actual shell's in gardens for the calcium.
Why is anne boleyn following me everywhere i go shes there she literally effected everything
I first heard it from Babes in Toyland. It based some characters off nursery rhymes so Mary had sheep and a garden but also had an original song or two. It was a classic evil villain wants to marry the lead girl.
Always excited to see a new post from you 😊🎉❤
I learned it from skip roping; it was one of those nonsense rhymes we used to keep the beat while doing routines and tricks in a group as a kid. We improvised it a lot and modified it and made it longer, etc.
Definitely agree that it just sounds like a random kid's rhyme. My mother's name was Mary, and she had borderline personality disorder so she was also quite contrary (didn't know the reason for it at the time), so I'd expand mine to say what my mother grew in her garden, including such lines as deer bait and poison ivy and buried dead pets and exotics that she couldn't keep alive.
You had to keep making up new lines the longer you could go. Thinking back, it was a great improv exercise, like rap battling for little kids, while trying not to trip over the ropes. 😂
Also Catherine had around 9 children boys and girls but most died at birth still born .mostly due to the corsets and diets of the time.
The only time ive heard that phrase in a Sublime song
Apparently Disney believes the Mary Queen of Scotts theory. They did up an animated show that told the true meaning behind famous nursery rhymes and for Mary Mary Quite Contrary they told of the Mary Queen of Scotts theory as factual. It was very fascinating show.
Do the messed up origins of George Porgie, I already know that it was loosely based on George the 4th of England and his habits
Can you please do the origins of "The Lion and The Unicorn"? 🦄
It was always sung at me as a kid but no one seems to know what it is or where it's from
"The lion and the unicorn were fighting for the crown. The lion beat the unicorn all around the town. Some gave them white bread and some gave them brown. Some gave them chocolate cake to send them out of town"
I was taught "and silver bells all in a row."