Peat Moss vs. Coconut Coir: Are They BOTH Bad?
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- čas přidán 27. 07. 2024
- Should we be using peat moss as gardeners? What about coco coir, the 'new' amendment that is being used to replace it? We brought in our new grower, Chris up in Vancouver, to discuss the pros and cons of both peat moss and coconut coir.
00:00 - Intro
00:49 - Chris Intro
01:16 - Lulu Bog
02:11 - What is Peat?
02:27 - Peat Layer Destruction
02:45 - Peat Harvesting Practices
03:29 - Ecosystem Shift
03:57 - Burns Bog
04:40 - Peat Product
05:41 - Peat Canadian Source
06:30 - Peat UK Historical Use
07:30 - Peat Bog Conservation
08:12 - Peat Moss Industry
09:21 - Peat Reliance And Properties
10:22 - Peat Alternative, Coir
11:34 - Coir Properties
12:57 - Coir Considerations
14:18 - Coir Salts From Processing
14:38 - Coir Environmental Impacts
15:46 - Peat Vs Coir Conclusion
16:55 - Outro
Credits:
• Video
• Canadian Peat Bog Harv...
• Coconut Coir Potting M...
• Ecologists in Ireland ...
• Fisher River Cree Nati...
• How to Make Coconut Co...
• Industrial Production ...
• Peat moss production
• Sphagnum moss (Sphagnu...
• What is Peat Moss and ...
• What is Peat Moss? I P...
• Why peat matters?
IN THIS VIDEO
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Hope you enjoyed this 'Digging Deeper' breakdown of peat vs. coir - going to release a video on a DIY peat-free soil mix soon!
Very good video. I've recently watched two youtube channels: Fraser Valley Rose Farm, and The Rusted Garden Homestead, that deal specifically with this issue of planting medium and sustainability(with results). You might find them very interesting.
OH THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!
I'm just getting into growing microgreens and mushrooms. I have BIG hopes of integrating vermi-composting and other self-sustainable practices. I'm in this to a LARGE extent, because of my love and committment to the earth. Things like the peat moss challenge are a bit of a discouraging "gut punch"🥺🥺
Thank you
I feel that the impact of coir was glossed over. All that was discussed was the impacts the processing has. What is rarely discussed when people push coir is that currently its only sustainable because it is a byproduct, however considering the US alone uses 450000 tons of peat per year and only 250000 tons of coir is produced in the ENTIRE WORLD, if everyone switched to coir then coir no longer becomes a byproduct and becomes a main commodity. At that point how many acres of tropical forest land would be converted to monoculture palm plantations to meet that demand. It's completely unrealistic and frankly irresponsible for people to push for the banning of peat products when we don't have a viable alternative.
@Alfredo Ramirez Most of us use peat moss. It's sometimes the only thing available TO use, depending on ones local resources. The point is in being honest about the challenges we learn about of current practices, so we can amend those for better results, as we do our soil.
We can not amend for concerns we do not or will not know about. This applies for soil and crops, as it does for products and practices.
🌱💞
@@udderstuff5554 I was really wondering about that very point! Thank you.
I'm REALLLLY hoping to find ways to not use peat, yet get good results, via local and self-sustaining methods. I'm super incredibly new to growing (beyond nurturing local "volunteers" like wild strawberries etc). I never want my success to be at the cost it almost always seems to be in America. I'm continuing to work to reduce that.
- Sincerely, Lost Newbie Finding Her Way 😂
Chris is a great addition to the channel. She's intelligent and does a great job explaining her subject. 👏
That is why the channel is Epic gardening, she is a great addition to the channel. Her presentation seems quite balanced with lots of good info and lots of good visuals.
Love her!
I love hearing her talk about anything, it's like a free college lecture.
Yup great addition
@Morgan Allen well yes trees store a big amount of carbon, but only for their lifetime. Bogs on the other hand can store the carbon much longer (as far as I know until they dry out or basically for ever unless we humans screw it up). The amount that they store annual might be a bit lower than a new growing forest, but over a longer time they store a lot more.
Also when you dry the bogs out and plant trees you release a lot of the carbon that was stored over time by the bogs. So it is a really bad trade
This video falls right into my overall gardening plan. Last year I was disgusted over the prices of soil mixes, peat and coco coir. Already with a garden planned, I had to bite the bullet and purchase most everything. I made up my mind last spring that I would attempt to be a self sustainable gardener.
One of the processes I put into motion 2 years ago was a good sized pile of leaves to create leaf mold. Well it paid off. Last fall I harvested over 40 gallons of the most beautiful leaf mold. Stored in my basement over the winter and kept moist, I have been using it over peat and coco coir to start my plants and producing my own potting mixes. Last year I tried to accelerate the leaf mold process by double shredding the leaves. The first and second year I just piled them up and turned and kept moist, a lot of work and 2 years. I will have another two year pile this fall to harvest plus hopefully last years as well.
At this point I have over 20 varieties of herbs, vegetables and flowers growing. I started some tomatoes in Jan (in zone 5, a huge mistake) to see if the tomatoes would do well or not. I did not want to wait until my regular starting time at the end of March and have a bust for tomatoes. Well I just potted up my 7 week old tomatoes for the second time and they are just wonderful. Nice full 8" plants with great root systems, unfortunately I already have to pick flowers off of them.
Everything else is doing fine as well, onions, leaks, peppers, greens, thyme, oregano, rosemary, borage, marigold, petunias, and sweet potato.
Along with the leaf mold I am trying to perfect my composting (it's been good, but can be a lot better), and 3 bins of worms. In addition I invested in a microscope to see exactly what I am putting in my gardens, along with the current status of my beds.
This my 3rd year of actively gardening. The first year was based on mostly commercial applications and organic principles. Last year was eye opening to the proper way to garden. This third year will be mostly experimenting with perennial cover crops, interplanting and working on my composting skills.
I am hoping that the above practices will free me from big box stores and garden centers.
This was a terrific video to inform concerned gardeners on the actual realities of peat and coco coir. As it happens, I have found something that so far is working for me.
I also collected and shredded a lot of leaves last fall and will do more this year. Are you saying you started the tomatoes in only leaf mold? And if not, what are you mixing in? I probably have usable leaf mold in the middle of my pile and would like to try your method on some seedlings. Thank you for any info you would like to share 😊
@@sbffsbrarbrr I started the tomatoes in 3"cells. The bottom 2/3rd was leaf mold, compost, some green sand I had lying around, worm castings, perlite and vermiculite. The top 1/3rd was just leaf mold and perlite. I am not sure of the ratios, kind of mixed it up depending how much material I had. I have to say at least 1/2 was leaf mold for the soil mix.
Besides the green sand, perlite and vermiculite everything else was produced from my efforts and the worms.
I made a video of transplanting the tomatoes, wish I was not so computer illeterate. Huge learning curve on trying to edit the damn things. When I figure it out I will let you know. I have a garden tour from last Aug and a lame bird feeding video if you are interested.
Hope this helps.
@@brianseybert2189 What's leaf mold?
@@jessiehermit9503 Leaf mold is basically leaves broken down by fungal decomposition.
It is not compost because you are not using any high nitrogen materials for the decomposition (bacterial).
The beautiful thing about leaf mold it will hold up to 70% of its weight in moisture, plus add a bunch of micro nutrients into your soil.
Leaf mold is my new go to for seed starter and to add to my potting soil. No more peat moss for me.
@@brianseybert2189 I'm going to start don't that, too, then!!!! Save the planet!!!! Use the resources at your disposal!!!!
Loved seeing Chris take us to Burns Bog and discussing the topic in great detail! Always learning so much from everyone at Epic Gardening. Thank you!
The hydrophobic nature of peat is exactly why I use coir in my semi-arid climate. I have to water containers every day in summer, and if my soil is peat based, I really can't water them ENOUGH. Gallons upon gallons of water runs right through and out the pot without moistening the soil! With coir based soils, I can sometimes go a few days between watering, and it only takes a reasonable amount of water to re-wet.
I have had the exact same experience with peat-based potting mixes, and coco coir solved the issue entirely!
Try using a wetting agent on peat, I use Quillaja extract from BuildaSoil in Colorado, it fixes the hydrophobic problem with peat PLUS it's really good for the plants as a foliar spray
This one of the smartest comments I've seen so far.
I’m looking for the best cheapest way to switch from seedling dirt for hydroponics; Ive heard great things about coco coir, is that something where you don’t have to transfer and can just keep it in nutrients without having to create stress by washing off dirt with seedling mix .. ?
I have to say that I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I used peat moss for YEARS without giving it any thought as to how it impacted the environment. Just recently, as in today, I thought it best to research it and coconut coir. Chris did an excellent job explaining/educating us on the two. Thank you very much!
Here in the UK they have been battling this for years and have decided to remove all peat from composts by 2024 but the peat-free versions leave a lot to be desired. Coir is ok as a replacement but it's not as good and I think it will take time for the companies to figure out good recipes. most use huge amounts of wood and green waste which give poor results but balance it with coir. That being said we need to stop using peat so finding alternatives is a must
Great breakdown Tony - appreciate your POV
Me and a few of my neighbours make our own compost with our vegetable scraps, hair trimmings, egg boxes, hedge cuttings and leaf mulch. Most of it goes straight into growing more plants the next year so we save money on compost from the local Wilkos/Garden Centre and we also reduce our landfill waste so it’s a small victory for us all. We might not get the results we’d get from shop bought compost, but for growing the basics like potatoes in the garden it works fairly well with us needing virtually no fertilisers in the grand scheme of things (I’ll get through maybe 5 litres every 3-4 years or so)
there are a couple of brands making very good peat free compost, that i find preform just was well as peat. but they are not cheap, so not accessible to everyone.
Tony, have you ever tried using your leaf mold instead of peat or coco coir? I used finished leaf mold this year and nothing but good.
@@brianseybert2189 Yes Brian Leaf Mold is amazing to use especially as a seed starter mix. However, with the size of my garden, I just can make enough of it. I make about 2 tons of leaf mold and 8 tons of compost a year and I could use double
I actually live in a former dutch peatlands
The bogs are protected these days since over 90% was destroyed, dug up and dried to use the peat as fuel between 150-100 years ago or so.
The areas hold unique animal and plant species which almost went to extinct.
The area cant be restored anymore. The original bog used to be as large as all of the north of the Netherlands and a huge part of northern Germany, a place where now hundreds of thousands of people live, built their houses where once meters high peat land used to be.
Some farms here started to turn their acres into birch forests around 40-30 years ago, now they are partially broken up to be used as peatland spots to help nature recover in a bit larger area.
Hope other bogs wont be as destroyed as the European ones for our gardening needs
Chris is really adding a valuable perspective to your channel. She is also a wonderful teacher--clear, thorough and easy to understand when explaining complex botanical/horticultural concepts. Thanks for providing this great new source of information.
I'll pass that compliment on!
I’ve tested growing lettuce in 100% well aged homemade compost before, but It is just hard to produce enough fast enough. Having enough readily available biomass is the biggest hurdle for almost 100% self sufficiency in a home garden, including sourcing enough mulch material from the property itself with having to use fossil fuels to chip it or mow it. Yes, scythes are an alternative, but ain’t nobody got time for that. Also drier climates like yours produce even less biomass naturally. Great video, Kevin.
Totally agree Siloe - thanks, means a lot coming from you
Try liquid humus
I get a lot of compost…… but mainly because I have 8 chicken coops and a couple hundred chickens lol
Also a good alternative to a scythe and creating mulch naturally is using the chop and drop method. I live in north Florida so I follow a lot of David the goods guidance there. Florida has its own weird rules lol
Cold areas struggle to compost fast too.
I really enjoyed this. I'm a Canadian gardener and I've seen a lot of American You Tubers say I g Canada has an endless supply of pear moss. Glad to see that debunked.
Nothing is endless. Relatively, though? We do.
Sustainable just means more is generated than is removed. If Canada has 1000 area units of peat and it takes 1000 years to grow peat then as long as you take 1/1000 of the peat per year your still sustainable even if it will take 20-30 generations to see new peat where it once was…
Not endless. But sustainable. More is being produced than being used.
170 million hectares.
Stop putting Americans on your chopping block. Americans have some of the best sustainability ethics around the world... from forestry to conservation.
This was one of the most thorough videos I've seen on this particular subject and I love that she went out to a bog! Can't wait to see you guys cover soil recipes. I'm looking forward to whatever you guys put out next.
We'll be doing it!
I love that you guys added Chris to the Epic Gardening family! She is so well spoken. The presentational style is awesome, it gives a real reporter on the ground vibe!
This video is so great, chris is a wonderful and engaging teacher. I appreciate that you point the pros and cons of both substrates. It also is very wise to show that there is no substrate, no product that we can use and consume as gardeners that does not have an environmental impact. Whether it's sand, perlite, leca, and on, there was water, probably oil (fuel), electricity, mining, and more impacts required to harvest and produce everything we use. The best thing we can do is arm ourselves with education, and use that to inform ourselves and each other, and even make local and global changes around us. Thank you both!!!
You bet!
It's a little crazy if you think about it.
Here in Australia, coco coir makes better sense both financially and for the fact that it's available closer to home.
The coir is still a by-product and using it is surely a less impactful way to get a good garden input.
If/once (?) people start actually creating coco coir as the prime product, then things kind of turn on their head.
I'd be interested to find out more about the conifer bark option though.
Fantastic informative video - big thumbs up!
Coconut coir contains high amounts of salt that damage plants as they are often grown on islands. And they trashing entire ecosystems and killing birds as the clearfell islands of entire vegetation to make mono cropped plantations so birds and insects and other small animals that rely on the other plants just die. Coconut plantations are WORSE than palm plantations as the animals can't escape into surrounding areas like Palm forests they just drown in the sea.
Chris is awesome...gotta have her on the channel more often. Super informative and well spoken with a soothing tone. : )
I really enjoyed the "deep dive" into this topic. SO much info to think about presented in a wonderful way. Looking forward to more videos like this.
I live in south LA...... no recovery from our disappearing marshland; we are losing our wetlands at rapid rates. Canadians, take care of your land :) ..... I'm changing my herb and veggie gardening to grow pots, which are easier for me to handle, given my aging challenges now. As I'm currently preparing my altered home gardening methods and seed planting this is an awesome video. Tks Kevin and Chris. I look forward to more like this.
This is the most complete, condensed, and comprehensible messaging I've heard regarding the importance of the lack of sustainability of Peat Moss. Thanks so much, Chirs, et.al. You guys ROCK!!
This sent me down a rabbit hole about whether there had been peat mining in Western Washington. Answer: I found a document from 50s going into deep detail about all of Washington's resources and how they could be mined. And then I learned there is a 5,000 year old bog not all that far from me. This video got me inspired to learn more about my place!
This was really informative and the addition to having someone in a northern climate is very much appreciated! She’s very thorough! I guess this is another reason why we should really focus on composting. Maybe I’ll up my leaf collecting this year. Thank you for sharing this!
PS. Is that a moringa tree in her greenhouse?!
But wait for the bugs to wake up and hatch before collecting leaves :)
Composted Pine bark in differing sizes makes up majority of potting mixes sold here in Australia. Great medium to use, and is a by product of our large timber industry.
And adding some mill mud for more readily accessible nutrients is good too!
Though I’m not sure how easily available mill mud is once you move away from our cane growing region up here in the dry tropics. 🤔
Bear in mind the pH level, too. I have two huckleberry bushes that require a somewhat acidic soil, and it turns out composted pine bark is exactly the same pH that huckleberries thrive in. Makes sense, I guess, considering they also enjoy having a half-decomposed pine log buried nearby... Just make sure you know what pH your plant needs, especially if it's a finnicky one like this semi-domesticated pair I'm dealing with.
Coco and peat are used in hydroponics, in soil just use the coco bricks, its a lot cheaper, but is a great additive to almost any potting mix. But coco needs to be washed and buffered with a solution to use it in hydroponics. They do now sell buffered coco in some states at Bunnings. You can grow some great hydro veggies in it, and with the mass introduction of LED lighting, you can potentially grow fresh tomatoes etc all year round 👍, grown indoors.
Especially appreciate the new addition representing Vancouver and the helpful info relating to the colder wetter climate.
Thank you so much for this elightning and educational video. Never imagined we were talking about a non renewable product. Chris is so clear and fun to listen to. Thanks again!
I'm glad you did a video on this. I use mixes that include coir as a partial replacement for peat. Another option is a product called pit moss. It is made from recycled paper. It's problem is that it costs more than either peat or coir, even though it is derived from a waste product. Recycled paper is easily sourced, less processing is needed, and shorter distribution paths. It sounds really great, and I would try it, if not for the cost issue. As far as the sterility of coir, adding some compost when starting seeds is a great way to counteract this. Some seeds are sensitive to the salts in synthetics, and the soil life isn't there to break down natural fertilizers.
I've tried it - works OK
Joe Lamp'l had great success with it with tomato transplants.
I grow a couple pitcher plants in coir (coir mixed with decaying leaves iirc) - two nepenthes and two sarracenia - that are super sensitive to salts and they have been happy in the coir. That said, my coir might be different than another person’s. Also, my pitchers get regularly flushed from florida rainstorms so that could clear salts too.
I'm so disillusioned about soils and mixes at this point. I started a container garden a few summers ago, making my own containers using instructions I found on CZcams. They worked great as far as the self-wicking function - just as well as the ready-made ones I purchased. Soil, though, was a much different story. I found a mix that several different YT gardeners swore by. Peat or coir, compost, worm castings, blood and bone meal, organic fertilizer. Made up the mix using coir, put it in my containers, planted seeds and starts, and nothing. My seeds grew, got two sets of real leaves and then stopped all progress. My tomato starts grew about six inches more and then just stopped. I checked ph levels, added fertilizers, spent a LOT of money amending the soil, and nothing changed. I've never had green beans not grow before. I didn't even try to grow anything last summer, and as much as I want to this year, I'm still debating. Soil is the most expensive part of the gardening equation for me, and I'm so hesitant to buy or make anything again for fear of wasting another huge batch of money.
@@After_Pasta So I overfertilized?
It sounds like you used three different fertilizers: worm castings, blood/bone meal and organic fertilizer. You should only really amend the soil with one of those. I always use worm castings in my homemade soil mixes, which is usually just coco coir, perlite and worm castings and have never had an issue with plants growing, either indoor, or seedlings/starter vegetables that I later transplant outside. If you go for it again, I think just try to use one of them. You really don't need much at all, most plants, especially vegetables, can really grow well without being fertilized much at all, I think a lot of growers over-complicate this too much.
Love the detailed information, Chris! Thanks for breaking down the environmental and other considerations for us.
Liberal side show
I liked this detailed breakdown. Another alternative to peat is shredded leaves (or leaf mould) which is what I've started using. However it breaks down fairly quickly so downside.
Yes! I started making my own leaf mold when I began watching Gardener’s World (UK) back in 2018.
My town's municipal compost heap is made almost entirely of autumn leaves from the previous year. It makes a great growing medium no matter what stage, and I've had a lot of success germinating seeds in it. I've also been hauling away all my neighbors' leaves from the curbside, which not only gives me plenty more organic material, but also saves the town fuel from hauling it away. Last year, I even noticed some large pinkish-brown mushrooms growing in the leaf compost, and upon further investigation, found out they were wood blewits (Clitocybe nuda) which are edible. So now I'm trying to cultivate them on purpose.
For germinating, I just use moss (found in my own garden or just loose) and use some sort of terrarium (no peat moss, just stones, a coffee filter, dirt and moss... All in a glass jar from vegetables). It works for me, maybe it needs some tweaking and I'm not the best gardner, so it might not be the best... But its working really well so far! 😁
Also, if you need moss: take loose moss (a lot of moss falls off during storms! Go out after the storm, when everything is safe, and you can find a lot).
Thanks for the tip on shredded leaves! I will look into it (and probably use it as the birds planted too many trees in our tiny city garden... I swear, I have over 20 saplings in my greenhouse now 😑).
So it depends on the leaves. Maple leaves break down quickly but oak leaves take time to break down. Just by happy accident my property was surrounded by 3 large oak trees and I’ve been working with composting that material. Mulched oak leaves have been a great amendment for me. I either compost them or add the mulched leaves on top though. You wouldn’t want to mix unfinished oak leaves into the soil because of nitrogen sequestration.
@@splashthefly9039 Yeah my dad used to use moss that was growing on our mango trees for germination and propagation. I simply use leaves (avocado, mango, banana) for germination, soil amending and as a mulch when I yard clean as those are in abundance in our yard.
Chris is always so great at explaining the detailed parts of these things! Love to listen to her.
Informative video, thank you. I would hope that Canada can get ahead of the bog loss. Here in south Louisiana, the swamps and pine forest have taken a hit over the years, but it’s the marshland that is disappearing at a rate that I do not think will ever recover.
Hello from Vancouver. So wonderful to see Chris here!
Thank you for explaining all of this. You've opened this Canadian's eyes. Another reason why Epic Gardening is my go-to channel!
This was so excellent. Thank you Chris for how clear and articulate you were in explaining everything in brilliant detail. I'm in the UK and stopped buying peat compost a long while ago now with a focus on making my own or buying peat free, and nothing in my garden has suffered. I had started to use coir a few years ago but have also stepped away from that too, and your excellent video has helped solidify that decision for me. Any small steps anyone can take to reduce their impact is a good thing. Thank you again, this was fantastic 💚🌿
This video was awesome, and I'm looking forward to more highly educational deep-dives into gardening topics.
Great information, thanks Chris! I'm an ex-Vancouverite ... nice to see a Canadian onboard this channel.
I use coconut core in my containers. I didn't see an adverse impacts to my garden containers last year and plan to use this year again😊. This was a very good presentation of peat and core! Hey, BTW, I should have ordered my birdies in December when they were on sale. They have really gone up in price. So, let us know if you have another sale, please 🌻🌻🌻❤️
This was awesome. Maintaining local ecosystems has always been very interesting to me and I love the idea of trying to work with the earth instead of at the earth’s expense. Glad I caught this ep before going to the gardening center
This is great, and I think I have coconut coir currently (I am new to gardening on my own), but I think it would have been nice to hear about other potential options. I see in the comments that compost and leaf mold are what some are switching to, so I think I'll look to see if I can figure out a way to get that in my arsenal before seed planting time comes. I'm not saying "alright, now here's another 10 minutes about other alternatives and their impacts, pros, and cons", just a mention at the end like, "and if you're not confident in these, here's some other options you can look into". As it stands, this video seems rather black and white, when usually Epic Gardening videos are good at chill "here's what I use and here's some alternatives" suggestions
She is such a natural. Eloquent and knowledgeable. I enjoyed her presentation very much.
Love the addition of Chris! Fantastic information. Thank you.
You bet!
I have a research paper I needed a topic for in my global issues class and this video came out at the right time for me. I will look more into this topic for the essay and for personal use for my own plants at home
wow this is really amazing content... i love the addition of chris and cant wait to learn more!
Thank you so much both of you! And a big warm welcome to Chris! Looking forward to more videos!
she is amazing at explaining, i’d love to hear more content from her in the houseplant realm!
Love the new addition to the epic garden roster! Would love to see someone from Canada who is from outside Vancouver as that isn't really representative of the majority of Canadian climate
Hope to get an even colder climate grower soon!
so important to share this as a gardener, we should leave everything better than we found it, know when to stop, and consciously consume
Hello Mia
@@thomassmith6344 Hi Thomas
@@thomassmith6344 oops wrong account :p
@@LIFELIT hi how are you ?
I'm so grateful for this video--I hope you'll continue to make videos on other options, as you use them successfully or as they come available. Thanks for all your hard work--and a big thanks and welcome to Chris!
Hello anahid
@@thomassmith6344 Hi!!!
@@anahidkassabian4471 how are you doing?
Hello again
@@thomassmith6344 Hey!... Drop me a text?
I grew up on our small family farm and learned to garden from my mother in the ‘60-‘70s. She never bought soil of any type. Instead, we started all seeds in our native Oregon soil or just by direct sowing into the garden. The garden was amended with our own compost, ash, sometimes fertilizer and livestock manure. I still garden this way. Maybe I am okay with less than perfection in my seed starts and I do have to pluck a few weeds but this simple approach seems to work, doesn’t cost any extra money and doesn’t have any environmental issues to worry about. I would love to see you do a deep dive on minimal, native soil and compost gardening. Keep up the great content. We always learn from you!
Thank you, this is perfect timing. Like today perfect timing! I’m knee deep in buying one of these run bulk today! I was stuck between figuring out which works best for my situation
Perfect!
I like the break down but I wish there was more of a conclusion of what would be the best practice for different applications
Same here but I think that may be the point....neither is the best or worst solution and at this point in time there is no one answer. I'm going to try to make more leaf mold this year. Seems many in the comments section are using it as a growing medium. Maybe by the time it's ready, I will have learned more about this subject 😊
Chris! What a garden correspondent!!!!
I wasn't even looking for this, but I just learned like 100 new things and a new word 'sequestering' lol. Chris is highly intelligent and elaborate and thorough. I would say keep more videos like this coming but I think she covered it all lol. Great job thanks.
Last season peat became unavailable in my area and when you found it, the price was just too high. I turned to coir and had no issues. It was easily available online and affordable. I should say that I'm using Mel's Mix in my SFG raised beds. Excellent information provided by Chris!
Coco coir is also very harmful to the environment, please don’t use it.
@@shawn-oldaccountl6748 You should expand on alternative products.
@@mrwhitten7704 Sustainable alternatives include but are not limited to: sand, bark, Leca, hydroponics, other kinds of mosses that you find yourself (it legit grows out of the crack in the sidewalk here in Canada), Spanish moss (has no nutrients so it is pretty much like planting is just water but it is more aesthetic you can also grow it on its own as an air plant), horticultural charcoal, compost, worm castings, and perlite (is not the most sustainable as it is finite but the mining industry creates minimal waste since it is mined at the surface and it requires minimal processing afterwards, it is better than vermiculite). Sphagnum and orchid moss can be sustainable if you purchase them from someone who grows it themselves, preferably locally to be even more eco friendly.
Tuli,
This is an excellent and interesting video. Thank you for sharing. Now l know! Who would have known.
Glad it was helpful!
I'm so excited to see more videos from our lovely new hostess
I could listen to Chris talk for hours. She’s fantastic! Great information. :-)
She's great!
Thanks for addressing this in depth. I’ve been peat free for years and I don’t see why anyone needs it to grow plants. My entire allotment and all my seed sowing mediums and potting on mixes are peat free and everything grows healthy and great. I think it’s such a sad thing to destroy habitats and biodiversity just so we can grow some plants with better drainage. Just use a good multi purpose peat free compost and add some perlite and vermiculite. Simple. Also, leaf mould is great for potting mixes and it’s free.
Lol I need it for all of my plants. You are very wrong. Ever heard of carnivorous plants? Yeah well every single one of them needs it. And many people grow carnivorous plants.
Every single one... except pitcher plants which I grow in a coir mix. Oh and venus fly traps, which also grow well in coir if you add some sulphur to bring the pH down. 😉
@@shanewaters592 eh but peats cheaper and I don't have to wash it repeatedly
@@monke1919 fair enough. Where I am peat is about 5 times the cost of coir, which is the main reason I don't use peat.
Interesting. As a gardener that lives in the philippines and started gardening during the pandemic i was introduced to coco peat and coir before even knowing what peat moss is lmao. I really thought coco peat and peat moss is the same. Coco peats are so readily available here and cheap that if i have extras when planting i add them to my compost bin haha. My mom also breeds aquarium fishes so i get my water from her aquariums hahaha
I love this! Can’t wait to see more deep dives! Please make more!!!
Chris is fantastic, so excited to see more of her on your channel. It's nice to include a very different climate from San Diego (mostly because I'm in Vancouver too)!
I'm experimenting with homemade leaf mold this year. Currently mixing it about 50-50 with coir, but hoping to experiment with higher LM percentages in the future.
coco coir is a godsend for growing cannabis
*Whaaaaat?!!!*
Wow, way to drop some awesome knowledge Chris. Didn't know my country sources that much peat for the whole world! I thought I was watching a documentary, so informative.
I am glad to see Chris back. I was so pleased to find small island seed company that specialized in rare seeds and perennials . And they are local . And don’t have a seed named after our provincial health officer .
I use coir a lot but didn’t realize the chemicals being used to help separate fibers. Go team! Great video .
I switched to fine pine bark early last year and I haven't had any problems. If anything I've noticed my plants being generally happier. I imagine the only plants that would struggle are ones that don't like acidic soil.
Logging slow-growing trees like conifers isn’t a great solution either, though. Perfect solutions don’t really exist.
@@CourtneySchwartz pine is a agricultural monoculture in the southeast, the pine lots are managed and grown essentially like corn except on 20 year cycles These are all farmed. There isn't really any virgin forests left in the southeast. The irony is the biggest threats to its sustainability are non native species that can grow faster than the pines. People don't want to hear it but the bradford pear, Chinese tallow, and royal pauwlina are actually creating diversity in a system of monoculture and its the lumber industry that funds much of the lobbying against these trees, because they have to spend lots of time and money removing the unwanted trees from their monoculture plantations.
@@CourtneySchwartz also another interesting point is that burning peat was a major way to heat homes in the UK and it was why most of the peat was mined. The irony is now they turned to wood pellets that are coming from the southeastern US. And all those pine tree farms. (I am surrounded by these farms here in SC.)
It's all farmed for the pine bark. Growth rates of conifers are also dependent on species but there are also cultivars that grow even faster. It takes about 10 years for 1cm of peat to form. Udder Stuff explained it well.
Living in coastal California, my whole gardening experience is basically just trying to keep my plants from staying TOO wet due to the humidity in the air, so coco coir is definitely the option I prefer. I've got everything in grow bags, just like, please, PLEASE dry out, I'm begging you. Plus, growing a lot of desert plants, I water so infrequently, that the top of my soil can easily form a thin hydrophobic crust well before the inside of the pot dries out. So that's another reason I try to stay away from peat. The environmental stuff is a major concern, and I hope I can find a truly unproblematic peat alternative one day, but for now, coco coir seems to be... less bad, at least.
Maybe add some vermiculite or something similar to help it drain better.
@@DRJoe100 I do go really heavy on the perlite already! With a combination of a coir-based potting mix, a buttload of perlite, and grow bags, I've finally managed to get plants that dry out at the same rate my plants USED to dry out in plastic pots and normal potting mix, before I moved here. But it definitely took a bit of experimentation to get there.
Great find in Chris! She is very easy to listen to and very knowledgeable too!
*Thank you so much KEVIN & CHRIS for the information you give us are very important, I like this course, happy gardeniiiiiiing*
Great video. Very detailed and easily to listen to. Love the addition of Chris! Especially since she is up North, as I am in a colder zone as well. Any plans on expanding to the East coast ;)
Hello Glenda
Thank you for making this video! Good to hear the conversation about the impacts of peat mining happening in US/Canada, too. I've been seeking out peat-free potting soil for the last few years, and it turns out you can find the good stuff even at Walmart, it offers such products as BeyondPeat Professional Organics potting mix. Works great.
Yay! So nice to see Chris here! I love her!
I love when people take the time and energy to really break down things for those of us who don't understand as easily
I start seeds in coir, but my germination starts in a plastic bag. All the seeds get water daily, sometimes multiple times a day, but that works for me and i think ive noticed less molding
This was really interesting! Here in the uk peat based mixes are still by far the cheapest and easiest to find but I’ve got some interesting alternatives - last year I used a wool based one which worked ok, and this year I’ve got a mix made from the by products of bio-gas production. Hopefully these sorts of things will become cheaper and more widely available in the future.
Wool?! I desire more information!
@@patriciacole8773 it was just in my local garden centre (and they delivered it to me which was great because we have no car). I grew some pretty enormous basil plants in pots on my windowsill, and successful courgette and lettuce plants out in my raised bed using it. It does smell very weird though if you’re used to peat based compost!
@@tinydragon42 wool? As in sheep wool? As part of a soil mix? I have some! Wondering how to use it. Love the idea!
@@patriciacole8773 yep, sheep wool, which I guess we have a surplus of here!
thank you for the great educational video!
:)
What a great video! Chris was knowledgeable, thorough, and easy to learn from. Excellent information about the different mediums that I didn't know, it was nice to see the history of both to help in understanding.
So awesome to know where our resources are coming from and how if effects our planet...
Keep up the amazing work and you really add value to the garden community!
yes! Thank you Kevin and Chris for bringing this environmental issue to light. In the UK peat moss is a HUGE no no and it seems like everyone here in the US relies on it so heavily it so upsetting. We need to make people more aware of the environmental impact of intensely harvesting these precious bogs.
Hello ditty
I think other commentors have said it better. Peat is sustainable if managed correctly and coir is not. Coir is still an option as long as it remains a useful by-product and forest are not destroyed to grow it.
We can each learn to incorporate more green products as we go.
It's important to realize the initial investment in gardening even in containers can be quite high. People in apartments wanting to grow greens usually don't have access to anything else. I'm not going to blame the least financially secure for trying to improve their health both mentally and physically through gardening.
Part of the issue is that peat-alternatives are all but non-existent is most of the US. I have searched locally high and low and found very few options that do not include peat. And those are triple or quadruple the cost, making it out of my budget to completely transition. My only realistic recourse is to find soil mixes that contain less peat and mix in more compost and things like bark fines. It is very frustrating!
What do you use instead? Just looking for ideas.
@@mrssanchez6778 I look for soil blends that also list compost and bark fines in the contents. Kellogg Organics is one brand I like, available at many home depots. Coast of Maine Bar Harbor Blend is also really nice. I also use Pro-Mix and add compost and soil conditioner or bark fines. The main thing is I save as much soil as I can from year to year and continue reusing it. Barring any disease or insect infestation during the growing season, potting soil can be re-used over and over as long as it is re-charged with compost and fertilizer.
I hope that increased interest in peat alternatives and coir makes the alternatives more sustainable. Processing and shipping coir can for sure be majorly improved. Once that happens coir and other alternatives will be much more viable options to replace peat which i feel really does need to be replaced. Bogs are hugely important eco systems and we cannot sacrifice them
Sorry, but that's never going to happen as there are a lot of carnivorous plant growers and they need peat to not die so sorry but no lol.
On the subject of shipping; the US seems to get most of its coir from India, but south and central America grow a lot of coconuts. Mexico alone harvests more than a million tonnes a year. A more local industry would surely reduce the environmental impact of shipping.
@@monke1919 i actually took the time to look this up. Rinsed coco coir is working for many growers in the EU. Maybe you should explore some alternatives yourself instead of being so negative.
@@JennyNobody I'm not going to. It's worse than peat and more expensive. Plus they don't naturally grow in coco coir in the wild, they grow in peat bogs. And I don't have to spend time rinsing it 10 times
@@JennyNobody and I'm not in the eu
I've been waiting for this video for a looong time since I suggested it and you said you would.. and you kept your word!!
I'll say that I've been able to start seeds in coir with those new self watering trays because of the large water reservoir. That worked really well :)
when it comes to some companies, they will use peatmoss in any compost mixes solf outside of california. It is very hard to find a mix without it included that doesnt also indluce fineprint saying "does not include peat moss/will include compost if sold in california"
Could we reuse old soil and add compost, tree bark from local areas, worm castings, perlite and some other nutrients to revive the used soil ? If so is there a video so I could learn
Depends on the sensitivity of what your growing but absolutely, thats like a main tenant of no dig permaculture, just keep layering compost on and you will be good to go.
The cheapest bulk coco coir available in North America is way more expensive than peat moss, and add to that the perlite, calmag and whatever fertilizer required to get it to the point where it will grow plants as well as peat moss does. I've had poor results using coco coir, now I'm stockpiling peat moss while it's still available *AND* affordable.
I've learned so much from this. Thank you for sharing and I love the cross over!
It’s also crazy to me that peat moss is the cheapest soil product. At least here in Toronto
I’m also in Ontario, and it’s true, peat moss is so cheap compared to everything else, plus it’s included in most topsoil and potting soil mixes. Coir, on the other hand, is much more difficult to find, and more expensive.
@@Rabellaka. yup, Rona has coco coir for $60, whereas peat moss is $10, I want to be the most environmentally conscious, but that’s really just not something I can afford
First to comment. Watching you from Ghana 🇬🇭. Helloooooo
Hey over there in Ghana!
@@epicgardening ❤️❤️❤️
Good!!! Very good that your comment is the first
Excellent dive into the use of peat vs coir. Chris, you’re the best, I really enjoy your posts. I would love to hear more about the use of leaves as amendments.
Excellent video gang! Thanks for the info!!
Is there an alternative to both products? What happens to the salinated water from the coir harvesting. Do they just dump it down a drain or is it boiled away and the salts put back in the sea?
There are alternatives, just depends on what your using them for. Sand, perlite, leaves/mulch, etc.
I stopped using peat because of how it's harvested. I use coconut coir instead. Now, I'm questioning that decision.
I decided to use peat for my seed starts this year, bc I already had a massive block of it ($6) from last year. Last year I used Coco coir for the starts. I'm having much better germination this year in the peat. 🙃 For me the factor is price. Getting as much coir is more expensive. The bag of peat says "from sustainable bog" or something like that - what does that mean? Is it a lie?
Overpriced coconut coir seems to be a scam especially since it’s a byproduct of coconut oil, coconut water, etc.. it should be way cheaper. Hopefully it becomes more affordable as it increases in popularity. Coconut coir can be used as cat litter too. . If it wasn’t overpriced
This could be the most information laden video I have ever watched. Thank you. Both positive and negative for each option. I don’t see that very often.
Gosh beginner gardener here and I do want to be more conscientious of what I’ll be using. This is going to be quite the learning process. Thank you!
Hello Danielle
I appreciate the solutions offered here but coir is still flown in on planes burning fuel, packaged in plastic bags, producing huge mono culture coconut farms. Seems to truly have a sustainable medium we have to learn the importance of soil and what it houses, mainly the beneficial microorganisms making the nutrients available to your plants. Peat and coir are organic substrates but not very biologically active without inputs. Bummer about Canadian bogs but even bigger bummer on the less developed third world countries we are getting coir from. Peat is also very accessible to lower income people despite its destructive harvesting practices, I’ve yet to find well priced coir bricks or bags, heck i even shell for the premium Down To Earth stuff but its pricey and scarce. The pitfalls of trying to be a conscious gardener / grower.
We as humans sure can damage and destroy our planet. What Mother Earth has taken thousands of years to do takes man practically overnight to undo. Makes me think of the rainforests. 😢. This young woman really knows her stuff and she made it very interesting. Thank you for another great video. Ps. Follow up please if you find a substitute. TY.
We'll be making a peat-free mix vid!
Thank you all for this video. I had no idea that peat took so long to renew, or that it was being taken from wild sources like this. I was under the impression that it was farmed because its just broken down plant matter. I figured it was a process like composting wherein they'd grow the moss, harvest it and then stick it in pile to break down.
I'll definitely be using other materials in the future.
Thanks again for helping to get this info out. I know there are probably still SO MANY people just like me that didnt realize they were helping to do this kind of damage to fragile ecosystems.
I love this channel! The information is explained in layman’s terms easy to understand. And Kevin’s speech also easy to hear and he hits every point. Just about the time a question pops up in my head, dang! He answers it! Keep it going, I’m hooked and shared this video to my Facebook friends.
I'll stick to peat. I've heard/read that it is sustainable and there is enough of it. It's inexpensive, which is great on my budget, and it really lightens the soil.
It’s not sustainable if the demand exceeds the pests ability to recover. Human Demand always outstrips natures ability to recover.
It very much isn't.
14 percent of Canada is peat bog.....do you know how many millions of acres those are? Canada has more peat bogs than the whole of Great Britain has land. Canadian peat bogs are growing not shrinking. There are more peat bogs every year in Canada even with the peat moss harvesting..... This video is in as little misleading.
60% of Brazil is rainforest, we still shouldn't cut it down unless the industry is sustainable.
@@trilokeshchanmugam3781 Canada grows over 500 times more peat every year than it harvests... That's pretty sustainable.
Thank you for using your platform like this and educating young folks like me about these problems. CZcams is a wonderful place. I’m thankful for your existence 👏🏽💯❤️
I’m SO GLAD y’all actually made this video, bc I’ve been using both and I much prefer coco coir