Why James Harden's Rockets stopped passing | Mike D'Antoni enhanced pod
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
- Coach Mike D'Antoni explains why the James Harden Rockets leaned into more isolation (with less and less ball movement) as defenses adapted to play them differently in this enhanced podcast segment.
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there is a great little segment with Chris Paul about this. as he tells it, this was initially, before every other team started switching, 100% a strategy to beat the warriors, even at the expense of regular season performance. to their credit, they put up a good fight against the best on-paper team ever. Harden also deserves credit for reinventing himself after the dribbledribbledribble phase of his career came to an end.
And 40 missed threes in game 7. But yeah that too
Where is this? Was this on JJ’s Podcast?
@@RealEyesRealizeFascists all of those missed threes happened because it became a robotic style of play dependent on the next man hitting the shot rather than players moving about the court in finding easy ways to score
@@DJ-ys9pv yeah I believe so
its cuz harden was always a spectacular playmaker. only people that thought he was a ball hog were haters or casuals.
Dantoni doesn’t receive enough credit for revolutionizing the game. I think some of the influence that people attribute to curry, can also be attributed to dantoni.
Curry and Steve Kerr revolutionized the game and Dantoni and Harden took it to it's logical conclusion.
@@calebangell77 Yeah and I think there might be a new revolution coming because now every team resembles the Houston Rockets in terms of roster construction with 1-2 iso scorers/decision makers, one picknroll big, and everyone else 3&D with another stretch big that can play center
Nelly, D'Antoni and Kerr can claim the credit for high speed shoot friendly offence. They took the dominant position (big strong slow centres), and made it near unplayable on a court.
@@calebangell77 7 seconds or less Suns were the first team to really start the revolution. And it makes sense what occurred with GSW as Kerr was our GM during a portion of those years with Suns.
@@user-gm5gc1be4w that is literally the revolution curry and the warriors created wtf are you on😂…… every player has to be able to knock down threes and defend insanely well, even the big. We are still in the curry/warriors revolution and looks like we will be for a long long time
Probably the best team to lose before the finals. They took the best team ever in my opinion to 7 games
Not only that, they were down a CP3 and took them to miss 27 threes in a row to lose game 7.
@@KniGht1st1 and only lost by 9 points
They would have won if Ariza just hit a couple of them.
Effort vs Talent = GSW squeezed by.
Lets be honest the Warriors weren’t even trying the first 5 games of that series, because if we were it would’ve been a gentleman sweep for us
Bruh I can’t believe this dude is 70 he looks really in shape lol
James Harden is the reason why i started watching NBA. This guy's skillset is just amazing to watch and such a game changer. One of the greatest scorers to ever play. Huge respect for coach Mike D'Antoni for recognizing Harden's offensive skills.
Same here. I know everyone doesn’t like his free throw antics, I don’t love it either, but the way he can read and break down a defense is just amazing
@@mr.melendez3872 those people are fkn idiots. Boo hoo he flops to get free points - so do plenty of others. He's just so smooth and phenomenal at offence, has a million ways to score and pass. Genius bball IQ
Same
same, and imagine am from Africa where football is the only sport we exposed to, harden was just different gravy 🥶🥶 especially with " cooking" celebration he used to do 🔥🥵
His skill set was pretty limited, and once defenses keyed in on him, he crumbled.
D’Antoni coached my cousin overseas before he joined the Pacers. When Coach came to the NBA I was juiced! Big love for him in our family
Who’s your cousin ? 🤔
Italy 🇮🇹 🔥
@@xxxkipperdipperxxx6783from 1990 to 1997 he was in Italy, so his cousin might be a domestic player in Olimpia Milano or Benetton Basket (the teams D'Antoni coached)
Love the insights from d’antoni, also cool to see he still remembers some of those analytics numbers
Loved this episode, and it's great seeing the joy in Mike's face when he's talking about why it was so efficient even if it wasn't pretty.
I remember watching the full pod of this and dantoni drooped so many gems
Rockets fan since 90. People didn't like it but they couldn't stop it. It just didn't work in the playoffs bc Harden wasn't getting the same calls. Even still if CP3 never gets hurts..... that will always sting.
Fact
Dont tell me enjoyed this fat, flopping choker taking 30 FTs.
Are you sure your a rockets fan??? It definitely worked in the playoffs. I don't know if you know but the rockets lost a 7 game series by 3 points to the greatest team of all time missing their 3nd best player.
@@aarong9128 3nd
@@aarong9128 I agree that it did worked.. golden state was always the better team. Like the bulls were to the jazz.. always in the way
The capela lob from the dunker spot was such a headache for defenses. Once harden had the first step on you it’s automatic. It would happen sometimes 2-4 possessions in a row.
I loooove this channel….. great way to digestive some of the strategic aspects of the game! Makes watching more fun when you can understand what other teams are trying to do
What an insightful conversation, super interesting to see how the back and forth between defensive and offensive schemes leads to overall evolution of the game
Ben just talking hoops with one of the best minds in the history of the game. Really lends credibility to his insights.
This was my take too, man knows his basketball inside out
I absolutely loved that Rockets 2018 team. They were so fun to watch and when they were hot were honestly the best offensive team of all time or at least could rival the Warriors in terms of offense
Love hearing from the Mike, Dan and Toni boys
BEN THIS IS MY FAVORITE EPISODE. BEEN WANTNG TO SEE A CZcams VID ON THIS SINCE THAT PODCAST EPISODE LAST YEAR.
IM A D'ANTONI FAN, AND I BELIEVE HE DOESNT GET THE RESPECT HE DESERVES FOR ALL THE INNOVATIONS HE PUT INTO THE GAME. YOU KNOW, HOW HIS 7SOL SUNS FORCED THE LEAGUE TO CHANGE AND EVENTUALLY EVOLVE, AND FOR HOW THE ROCKETS BASICALLY OPENED EVERYONE'S EYES BY DIVING INTO ANALYTICS VIA SPAMMING THE 3-BALL AND SOMEWHAT BRINGING BACK THE DREADED ISO.
I WISH THERE COULD BE MORE EPISODES WITH COACH MIKE SO WE CAN SEE/HEAR MORE OF HIS GENIUS AND HOPEFULLY HE GETS INTO THE HALL SOME DAY.
I think the perfect offense is a combination of the D’Antoni Rockets and the 2023 Nuggets. Have one guy hold the ball, but instead of just having the other 4 guys stand around, have them run off-ball actions so that the defense has to worry about the guy running the show while also having to worry more about everybody else than they might’ve had to with a simple spread iso or P&R. Basically, I think if you put replace Jokic with Harden on the current Nuggets that they’d be amazing.
I wish someone would ask D'Antoni about the playoff downsides of this heliocentric offense approach (For them: Harden's fatigue, less foul calls/more physicality in the playoffs, and inability to adjust in playoffs because Harden never played off ball and role players are never asked to do anything more). To me, this is most valid criticism of that Rockets team not aesthetics.
it did though? The Rocket's took the best team of all time to 7 games and were up by double digits half time. Chris was injured, and the team weren't getting foul calls. So yes it DID work come playoff time lmao. Everyone knew the Rocket's were the 2nd best team in the NBA and would've won the championship if chris paul didn't go down. Y'all love to criticize the Rockets when none of you have watched a single game. Yall just regurgitate ESPN talking points. Casual.
@@mkbzam In 2018 it definitely worked. The rocket's played the best basketball when healthy period. And would've beaten the best team of all time. Only reason they "didn't" win was due to unfair ref calls and chris paul getting injured. That has nothing to do with D'antoni's system.
@@madj7120 While Chris going down mid game was bad for them, the Warriors lost their sixth man in the 4th game. If Iggy doesn't get injured they win in five.
@@Charlie-jf1me who the fuck do yall think iguodala? Bro got insane gas cause he was on the warriors lol he was a ROLEPLAYER
@@Charlie-jf1me If you're gonna bring up Iggy then Rockets fans can bring up Luc Mbah a Moute who was their best perimeter defender as well and went down in the first round
schroder being in that isolation list is something else, goes to show you how even a role player is that good
Dennis was always an underappreciated iso player. His speed alone is incredibly difficult to guard and he was a streaky shooter with sneakily good finishing around the rim. He just has a lot of other limitations that hold him back from becoming a star.
But yeah.. speed kills
no it doesnt, it shows that Dennis is above average in isolation lol
@@futurehofer1564 "no it doesnt" then "dennis is above average in isolation" man what is it? lol what a moronic reply
@@futurehofer1564 watch his games with germany and u'll see how good he is
@@joshuaabuel5812 I literally said he was good?
Love MDA! Brilliant mind. Hope he wins a ring someday.
And great to hear him give Point God his praise !
Love D’Antoni, it’s gone be awhile til ppl admit how much he impacted the current NBA Playstyle‼️❤️
AWESOME content
I’m a big MDA fan and I’ve made many assumptions about Rockets’ strategies on Warriors. 80% of them were confirmed on this podcast. Love it. Thank you so much!
Love the enhanced pods!
Anytime I think of MDA, i just think of the game of zones scene when he first meets Harden and goes, "half the defense, DOUBLE the offense!"
that was super-informative - thank you!
Definitely felt like they were too rigid with their approach though. Yes Harden can slice up a bad matchup when the switch comes early, but I remember him being absolutely gassed by the end of games from the ISOs. Also left a lot of their shooters cold, which probably contributed to that one 0-27 game.
That being said, I really do think if CP3 didn't go down that series it would've been a Rockets championship, and a lot of critics would've been silenced. Winning a chip requires a good amount of luck, in this case the luck of one HOF PG's hamstrings. Maybe PHX gets CP3 a chip this year?
Poor officiating also caused them to go 0-27. People don’t realize that basketball is all about rhythm. The refs weren’t calling blatant foul calls, which contributed to everyone losing their rhythm collectively
@@thelegendoof8744 yeah theres a video out where the refs either missed foul calls on 3 which should have led to free throw shots or and one 3s that were not counted.
nah it'll be harden who gets the ring. sixers in 5. don't @ me
@@zuhaibfalik4804 Klay is dirty and deserves another ACL tear
Damn he got Mike D'Antoni on the Pod. Good stuff 👍🏾
Harden's the best combo guard we've ever seen
What are the other combo guards ?
@@Thanosdidtherighthing I don’t think there’s a guard comparable, what other guard was able to average 30-35 points a game one season and 10-11 assists the next
Thanks for the vid
its like we are in the film room with a professional team this is amazing
What’s also crazy to me is that after he left Houston he was an assistant on the nets staff and still united back with harden months later he deff loves him sum harden
Dantoni was a perfect fit when he was in Phoenix and Houston. It was too bad he couldn't get the ring. 2018 was his year.
Broke my heart when Cp3 got hurt and they lost to Golden State. Harden & Chris would be viewed SO MUCH differently if they would've won that championship..
Also Coach D'Antoni would get his respect for being a mastermind & one of the most innovative coaches ever..Sad really 😂😔😔
Agreed and they definitely had a strong chance in 2018. Harden overall though declined too much in the post season. Went from being a 36.2% 3pt shooter to a 32.4% 3pt shooter in Houston playoffs .
@@Thanosdidtherighthing And that was my thing against Harden. On one hand, let's be fair, He's up against the greatest team of this era. Actually the greatest team of all time. It's not realistic to expect him to have the same level of dominance vs such an amazing team..
BUT on the other hand.. As great as Harden was, All that was needed was ONE all-time legendary performance in game 6 or 7 to cement himself as a legend. And he didn't deliver.
great video
That has always been a good option. Isolations are good plays as long as as the offensive player has a good match up to attack and there is good spacing.
In analytics it shows that videos from our channel are often recommended to those who watch videos like this.
Please do a video analyzing the Mavs-Lakers game that was today, and the effect Jarred Vanderbilt’s defense has on the game.
I think the Rocket's over-reliance on Harden didn't take into account fatigue in the playoffs. The playoff fatigue is different because opposing team just get so much chance to hone in on the workings of your offense. Hence Harden being famous for close-out game meltdowns. I would hazard a guess that they would've had more playoff success, possibly a championship, if they had more go-to weapons & plays that they were able to practice in live games and pull-out of the tool kit whenever Harden wasn't having a great game. Or even just to change it up in order to manage Harden's fatigue over a possibly grueling 7 game series.
It's just pure math. D'antoni plays the most efficient offense based on the player he has. That's the definition of a good coach.
Hey Lebron fanboy, you still good?
Too bad they didn't go all the way. Mike and Chris would have deserved it so much for many years of excellence.
Great point. It definitely looks terrible but it worked on most teams.
I get the foul baiting but seeing harden cook up 1v1 is definitely more entertaining than catch and shoot or post scoring
@@trelllmaoyessir it really depends, I kinda prefer the screening action/catch and shoot that warriors/old spurs do but 1v1 action has some great moments too.
@@trelllmaoyessir it depends on how much repetition there is, if they are doing it every play then it’s extremely boring and one dimensional.
They made that 2017-2019 Warriors team look mortal. No one came closer to knocking out that superteam than the 2018 Rockets. i just wish injuries didn’t exist because we’ve lost a whole lot of good basketball just from injuries alone 😿. but, it is what it is 🤷🏻♂️
That’s cool as fuck that you brought MDT on the podcast
If not for Chris Paul getting injured and missing the last 2 games of the series against the Warriors in 2018, the Rockets might have won the championship. It's hard to compare each teams regular season stats because Warriors had a lot of Injuries with Durant missing 14 games and Curry missing 31 games plus Klay and Draymond missing between 9-12 games. But the Rockets were up 3-2 when Paul last played. Warriors swept the Cavs so I imagine the Rockets would have easily won as well, maybe not a sweep but maybe 5 games with 6 at most.
I dislike their style of play but it is working and thats why they used it. Its like natural selection really. Thats the best offense to emerge that could've countered gsw.
Man fuck I was rooting for this rockets team so unbelievably hard
One on one success was brought upon those quick defensive shooting fouls around the 2017-2021 era.
Everybody landed in harden space tho. He didn't side to side like KD or Chris
where do you get all these moments from games?
More old time KD analysis please.
I got love for these rockets teams because imo, that team is run exactly how any regular nba fan would probably run a team. "Just give your best guy the ball and let him work"
I absolutely love how he acknowledges that it wasn't pretty and it was in a sense flukey due to personnel but it fucking worked
we need dantoni to the sixers !!!!!
Kobe said it best tho, 1 player is never gonna beat a good defense at the top of the key. 1 v 5 can only take you so far.
Cap. They would have won it all w CP being healthy. Shooters w defense is what moves the teams nowadays
You do know that Kobe said that because he knew CP3 was injured during the 2019 season, and that was their only way of winning regular seasons games during that stretch, right? Even Kobe said that he knows Harden would share the ball with CP3 when he got back. I swear to god people don't actually understand context at all, lmfao
@@cottonmather8146 WeLl AcTuAlLy... shut up nerd.
@@ingusKD35 no they would not have.
@@BTizzle What's wrong? Your ego too fragile when you get told you're wrong? Sorry you can't use your idol's words to skew some biased narrative 😂
God. I really wish I could go back to this era as a Rockets fan. CP and Harden was the best and way too short lived
I want to see MDA coach Trae Young
Love seeing Harden, but Harden under D'Antoni was a beast, D'Antoni unlocked his potential, but wish they had won the 2018 chio 😢
By the end of game 4 in 2018 I really felt like the Rockets had a real shot. Looking back I feel like it was the right result with the Warriors winning though. Iguodala didn't play games 4-7 which put guys like nick young, jordan bell and looney on the floor for extended stretches. Replace these guys with Iggy and the Rockets would have had a much harder time punishing switches with Curry being the only weaker link. Nonetheless I really admired how the Rockets nearly beat an alltime great team with their approach. Discipline was the most important trait imo against the Warriors. Using a switch everything strategy on defense as well as the iso strategy on offense really simplified things and reduced miscues which was highly important against a team which mercilessly feasted on mistakes.
Dawg we missed our best perimeter defender the entire series too. Instead of mbah a moute we had ryan anderson guarding curry in isolation in a win or go home 🥴
It kinda went the other way too with Mbah A Moute being injured. He did a better job on KD than Ariza and PJ did in the reg season. Holding KD to atleast 5 pts less would've won them one more game out of the 1-3 and maybe game 7.
Where the fall interview?
Philly needs this guy to bring Harden back
Most underrated coach all time just cuz casuals wanna mention rings. If CP3 doesn’t get injured, rockets take down the warriors we all know it, 3-2 lead before cp3 goes down
Mike Banner Explaining Basketball from different universe to Ben Wayne, . . Dang Marvel and Dc got me here
For me was pretty.
It's important to have player who can beat one on one
Well the Hawks just fired Nate McMillan. MDA is the perfect coach for the current Hawks with Dejounte and Trae
he's the steph curry of coaching. He revolutionized the game of basketball with his 3 point emphasis, fast pace and no defense. I'm not even being sarcastic.
“No defense” was wrong. Rockets had one of the best defense in the league during 18-19, 19-20 season. Check the numbers.
Or else they wouldn’t even push the Warriors to Game 7.
He made a really good point fans at home need to realize, the game is heavily dependent on stats now. The entire playbook is based off efficiency, so at home, when you watch these guys do something and scratch your head, it might be something that has worked all year long. A good example of this was the Lakers offense last year, it was a heavy diet of LeBron isolation and 1 on 1s. Fans at home were mad the ball wasn't moving, but when you dove into the analytics the LeBron post up was their only efficient offense for the most part. Every playbook now, offense or defense is heavily dependent on statistics as much as people don't wanna believe that
i'm amazed he knew the PPP off the top of his head
they used to kill this man for what exactly luka is doing today smh
Crazy because harden is more efficient in isolation 😂
@@thelegendoof8744 Luka ascends his production in the post season…. Harden declines in the post season.
Now I wonder, Rockets 2017 vs Warriors 2022, how they will defend each other
Mike Dantoni sounding exactly like Larry David is a histerical mistery to my french ears.
the description is in the link
Coach Pringles shaved his 'stache!
I still wonder what the 2018 Rockets beat the Steph/KD Warriors alternative timeline would be like. How different would the league look right now?
i understand the analytics, but i feel like its short sighted, puts all the presure on James, and when playoffs come around and he needs help, the team hasnt developed the chemsitry to step up and carry the load
It’s designed to generate overall wins, not specific wins like playoffs. If you look at the numbers, 18-19 Rockets had the “most efficient offense” according to statistics.
They did something right, but Murphy’s Law exists, and in a grand picture, they lost 4 games against the Warriors in the Playoffs, but got a bunch more Ws in other scenarios.
If Fertita wasn’t cheap and actually went into luxury tax and provided more depth to the Rockets they would’ve beat GS even when CP3 went down
Please become the sixers coach.
You are so Right
Hardest is a beast!
We went from this offensive mastermind… to Stephen Silas 🤦🏼♂️
Imagine him having a better defensive assistant coach like Doc did with Thibs. He could've won a ring by now.
Its weird when the face matches the voice
Basketball fans.
My Spurs put on a passing clinic vs Miami in the Finals.
Thanks for attending my TedTalk.
You also didn’t have a dominant 1 on 1 player.
@@PNL1992 and the heat aggressively hedged and trapped instead of switching so ball movement is the counter to that
@@PNL1992
We had Tim Duncan
And timeless basketball to watch forever.
As opposed to unwatchable Houston games...
@@Loris71734
Nothing's perfect.
But it's mostly EFFORT...
Again, Tim played in credible All Star games - not "public practice"...
But as long as they cash cheques and get Twitter mentions/Tiktok shares...
@@darrengordon-hillI love Duncan but by that point you couldn't felt on him in isolation for long stretches
What if Mavs fire Kidd and hire Mike D'Antoni? That'd make them the best offence in the league. Also, the Hawks just sacked Nate McMillan.
That offense was definitely pretty
CP3 going down in that GS series is so unlucky. Who knows if they pull it off with him but they were looking great and things were pointing that way. Who knows how Harden/CP3s legacy would be if they were able to make it to that finals and win it all.
Still not sure what genius decided to move on from CP3 for Russ. Made no sense
I think it looked pretty, maybe not exotic
“Houston…..we have a problem”-NASA
Harden should have won like 2 more MVPs when he was playing with the Rockets
man this team was so damn close to taking those fuckers down
You need to simplify your question like your title. Things aren't that complicated.
Nah that houston era was a funny era of basketball
Isolation offense against elite defense especially in the playoffs will eventually get shut down. That's why the rockets of 18-19 couldn't win the championship. Warriors motion offense is much more difficult to defend as a defense having to chase Steph and Klay around. Dantoni is too stubborn to adapt and make adjustments during the series against the warriors.
Did you watch the video in full?
@@bruh_rick he didnt 🤣
0:47 -- Travel plus him jumping into Draymond for the foul.
But what he is ignoring is that without the passing the were the most efficient but they couldn't win a chip playing that way because winning at the highest level required the whole team to be at their best and when guys are doing that much watching it's impossible for them all to be in a flow
That's a gibberish narrative. The Rockets were literally a couple 3 pointers made away from winning game 7 in 2018 Western Conference Finals. There's no "right way to play basketball"
@@blacknetsmed yes there is you say a couple of 3's away from winning I say the one guy that system relied so heavily on ran out of gas
guys like Stephen a smith give mike a bad reputation as a coach and is always trying to slander his name from getting the good coaching jobs. He'd be a better coach for the 6ers
The two big problems with Mike D’Antoni teams is that the offences are built for regular season success, but in 7 game series, when opposing defences can spend days planning against it, it’s not going to work. D’Antoni also simply didn’t focus enough on defence. Again, that will work during the regular season, but not in the playoffs.
You dont know what you’re talking about… it only didn’t work against the greatest team of all time, nothing was going to work against them… stop talking little boy
it did though? The Rocket's took the best team of all time to 7 games and were up by double digits half time. Chris was injured, and the team weren't getting foul calls. So yes it DID work come playoff time lmao. Everyone knew the Rocket's were the 2nd best team in the NBA and would've won the championship if chris paul didn't go down. Y'all love to criticize the Rockets when none of you have watched a single game. Yall just regurgitate ESPN talking points. Casual
@@carter5599 The Warriors with KD were far from unbeatable.
@@Thanosdidtherighthing ? The only ways to beat GSW are to have a generational center like Shaq/Hakeem with good enough role players, or launch more 3's and "try" to limit their offense to only KD iso 2's
@@Thanosdidtherighthingof course a niko bellic fan have 0 iq
I hate Zero Pass & 1-Pass Offense. 👎
The point guard should be passing the ball as he is crossing the Halfcourt line.
Which bball handbook did u read that in?
@@MrWillandtk UCONN Huskies legendary head coach Geno Auriemma hates poor ball movement with a passion. 👍 He demands that the point guard knows who they are going to pass the ball to BEFORE THE POINT GUARD CROSSES THE HALFCOURT LINE.
The 1st pass is not a catch & shoot situations. You gotta make the defense expend more energy chasing after 2 or 3 passes.
This 17-18 team was probably the best rockets team in years. 60+ wins and I firmly believe they would’ve made the finals if cp3 was healthy
Don't put Curry in the same conversation as harden. That was a mega reach by you. Curry is nowhere near James in iso or skill. Nevermind talent they played with
lol cope
@@kingofthenoobs you can't argue boy
@@chauvintookaknee4blm268 cry baby girl
Also a major reason for their lack of playoff success, if you don't move the ball, over a 7 game series, the defense gets a read on you
but they were able to make GSW lose their ball movement as well, that's the key. GSW wasn't an iso team.
Lack of playoff success? What team competed with the Warriors? They went toe to toe with one of the greatest dynasties in basketball history.
I think Curry, Durant, Klay and Green (along with West, Iggy, Livingston, etc.) had more to do with their “lack of playoff success” than their offensive system.
If Houston doesn't miss 27 straight threes they would have beaten the superteam warriors, and likely won the championship that year. I don't think it was a schematic fault of theirs.
@@conehed1138 not even 27 straight, they were cooked by the 4 min mark in the third. they wanted out.
@@PNL1992 Harden went from being a 36.2% 3pt shooter in Houston regular seasons to a 32.4% 3pt shooter in Houston playoffs…. He simply declined too much in the playoffs statistically across the board.