Back in the day, copper was the most popular choice for a moonshine still because (a) copper is a soft metal, so it was easy to shape and build with, and (b) copper reacts with and eliminates the nasty sulfur compounds that form during fermentation. Copper’s biggest strength is the fact that it eliminates those sulfur compounds, making it an important step in distilling alcohol. But do you need your entire still to be made out of copper in order to get rid of those sulfides? Actually, no you don’t. Using even a small amount of an all-copper column packing such as mesh, scrubbers, or rings inside your stainless steel column will remove those sulfur compounds.
Here's how I do it on my reflux, pot still tower. I use the tower as a pot still. And collect everything I pour what I have in my air still and set it to 95C Toss water and pour back in air still. Then I set it to 83C (Use as cleaner or fire starter Then set to 84C (My infusions liquors) 88C (The drink as is Liquors)
thank you for your great video ... i have a question and it makes me confuse ,if i use reflux still do i get my vodka percentage above 90 percent till my mash alcohol is end or the alcohol precent lower and lower by the time ? and do i must put copper scrubbers or marble into the column to see reflux action or its not necessary thank you for ur reply ....
mind blown, ok you said that running a stripping run, you lose the flavor and get the alcohol faster. then you said the ones that do this save up and rerun it slower and makes higher proof and retains flavor, ( I thought you said was lost in stripping run), how does it get the flavor back that was lost???
It’ll be alcohol at that point. Depending on your OG, should be 7-20% ABV. It’ll be fine to sit forever probably, especially if the vessel is sealed. Even if your mash goes sour you would be fine to run it, might have to strip it and add it to the next run because a bit of that sour can come thru in the distillation.
+Barley and Hops Brewing LLC, +George Duncan, I have this still but haven't used the reflux yet but aren't you suppose to be able to regulate that water entering the pre-condenser to balance the reflux ? or does it not matter in this set up ?
Yes. That is what the red handled valve included in the water control system is for. It goes between the pump and the inlet of the reflux chamber. You then meter the water flow by adjusting that valve. Hope this helps George
I know what your talking about (its in your other video ) but there is no red valve shown in this video, also this still only has one inlet and one outlet as opposed to the other still that has 2 sets... unless i'm mistaken. also thank you for taking the time to respond, im a HUGE fan.
I see what you mean. Yes, you are correct and this is a good question. There are variants to the reflux still and Mile High has packaged their 3 gallon Mighty Mini without the valve. This will require the operator to rely almost entirely on the heating source to control the reflux action. This works but I always prefer to have a separate method to control water flow. That way I have more control over the entire process. If you own a variant as in the video I would recommend that you add a valve or even a completely separate water pump and hose for the reflux alone. That way you can turn on the condenser and then operate the reflux portion independent of the condenser. This is just a marketing approach taken by Mile High (not my favorite but still effective). Hope this clears it up a little more. George
I run my water pump from my swimming pool to a garden hose that I cut in half. Half for the in and other half for the out water. I rigged a round garden hose spigot valve and adjust the flow with it based on the temp. As the temp rises on the column thermometer. More water flow will he needed. I can control how fast or slow the product drips out by adjusting that valve. Don't use a ball valve because it won't let you make fine adjustments. Get the round handle valve.
Short Mountain Distillery: ..."because copper binds with hydrogen sulfide and isobutyl mercaptans and forms copper sulfate." "The copper sulfate tends to bond with fatty acids and oils to eliminate skunky and rotten egg smells from the spirit."
Just got the dual purpose reflux still so my question is. Do you keep the water cold and flowing like crazy in the reflux collum like crazy to keep the alcohol from condensing into the outlet line for awhile then turn it down to start getting that flow and higher percentage?
The water flow in the reflux chamber must be metered. Start with a slow trickle and adjust after that. If it is too much flow the still will not produce. George
Awesome thank you that helps but I’m trying to get at before I let any product run do I run the reflux chamber fast to let the alcohol run up and down the chamber before I let it run out ?
There is no right way to do the wrong thing. Don't try to short cut or make your still do something it will do anyway by itself. Sometimes over thinking the process can cause more issues than it resolves. George
Joe Brown That’s the point... Or simply flavor the spirit after cutting it to a usable proof. I believe some people use gin baskets and/or flavoring chambers after the reflux column to introduce subtle flavors to even high test alcohol that reflux stills produce.👍🥃
Yes you need to control the flow of water in the reflux column with a valve of some sort... Too much cooling on the column nothing comes out... Too little cooling and the reflux is not going to run effectively or efficiently. I think that is what you’re asking.👍🥃
Varies still to still. It's not a "set temperature". When George says "it's run hotter for a stripping run" he means that you put more energy into the kettle faster so you take the product off faster and the whole run takes less time (downside is you get a lot more water and unwanted by-products coming across and your likker will be a lower proof/abv and worse tasting because of that - which is why you don't "run-your-lawnmower" on a stripping run). "A slow run" refers to energy being added to the kettle less aggressively so it heats up and operates more slowly than with the stripping run. You run it slow and you get less cogeners and water coming and a higher started abv usually - but it takes longer for the whole run. The most obvious visible difference between a stripping run (hot run) and a Spirit run (cool run) to the person running the still is the amount of product coming off the product condenser/parrot. Spirit run (for a home still) it's the small pencil lead sized stream/drip-drip/stream trickle, ... Stripping run (hot) it's a gusher! :o) You'd usually (if you're being economical) want to do enough stripping runs to fill your kettle AFTER it's diluted back to 40%abv or less. Then you can do a finishing run or "Spirit run". NEVER do a spirit run with anything over 35% to 40% abv ... otherwise you just built yourself a potential bomb. :o)
+Barley and Hops Brewing LLC when do you do a stripping run do you have to separate the fore shots and heads or does it just all get dumped in ? also when do you know when to stop stripping or does it not matter ?
If you are running a reflux stripping is not recommended. The stripping process is normally reserved for pot stills where one would run the still hot and fast. Foreshot are still removed and thrown out. The finished product is then re-distilled in a final run. George
so basically dump everything between 145 and 179 degrees correct ? 179 -204 get thrown into another mash then brought up slow as you instruct to do correct ? just ordered my outback from mile high im excited !
you don't "ascribe" to the "idea" of a chemical reaction between the copper and distillate. That is science, that is fact. Just wanted to clear that up. As for the question, "is copper better?", well, that depends on your final goal. if you are after a clean, neutral, spirit then the answer is unequivocally and undeniably YES. but if you are after some kind of taste that you like, that the copper changes or removes, then of course no. also, FYI, the copper has to be in contact with the alcohol vapor to work. this is why distillation columns are sometimes made with either copper packing in the vapor lines, or they just make the top of the column copper instead of the whole thing. the copper reacts with sulfer compounds and removes them by binding with them. you then wash this off (the copper will turn black when this happens)
Well just saw another one of your videos where you basically explain all this. I was just a little surprised that there were "two opposing views" on the use of copper for a cleaner alcohol. Coming from a professional distillation engineering background, this is just a fact...not really open to interpretation. That other video was a much better explanation of this.
Please clarify. If I want (basically) more of the flavor from my mash to come through. I would then want to use the Pot Still, probably stainless steel instead of copper. If I want a more neutral spirit and perhaps a bit stronger. That is when I would want a Reflux Still and include Copper (or more copper as the case may be) Just my 2 cents but if it will strip out sulfur compounds I think I would want some copper in the linkage no matter what still was used.
+duane freeman ~ If you fill out a form and mail it to the feds, you can legally make ethanol fuel with it. Plus, if all you're doing is making it for yourself and not selling it, the feds won't screw with you. Could they? Yes. Will they? Unlikely. They don't have the budget to try and find everyone who is making it for personal consumption. Just remember, pay in cash, and don't have it shipped to your address.
+moncorp1 Sorry I cant agree. There is no flexibility with the permit. It is for fuel only and does not cover you if you make a drinkable product. I know of a few who have a permit and yes, they check. May not check everyone but they do check. As far as paying cash and not shipping to your address goes if you apply for a permit it doesn't matter. They no who you are and where you are at.
Back in the day, copper was the most popular choice for a moonshine still because (a) copper is a soft metal, so it was easy to shape and build with, and (b) copper reacts with and eliminates the nasty sulfur compounds that form during fermentation. Copper’s biggest strength is the fact that it eliminates those sulfur compounds, making it an important step in distilling alcohol. But do you need your entire still to be made out of copper in order to get rid of those sulfides? Actually, no you don’t. Using even a small amount of an all-copper column packing such as mesh, scrubbers, or rings inside your stainless steel column will remove those sulfur compounds.
"Still Behind the Bench" explains the copper chemistry issue and placement very well in Ep 020. Very smart, young fellow.
This popped up on my feed. I sure do miss you George. I wish I pray for u and your family. May God bless you and yours.
Thank you for giveing spme info on the difference between the pot in the reflux what is stripping run is have a blessed day
I really love my T 500 copper. No brainer. Super easy and good product using Birdwatchers.
Absolutely. Easy to run and dependable.
George
i guy new to your channel and so far it great!
Thanks for another great video. Cant wait to get my still ordered.
Here's how I do it on my reflux, pot still tower.
I use the tower as a pot still. And collect everything
I pour what I have in my air still and set it to 95C
Toss water and pour back in air still.
Then I set it to 83C (Use as cleaner or fire starter
Then set to 84C (My infusions liquors)
88C (The drink as is Liquors)
Your great but try to get every part of the set up?
If you run a reflux still without packing and without cooling the tower would you get the same result as a regular pot still?
Good info for the newbie, thanks for your videos.
It doesn’t do much good George if you can’t see everything on the video
Anton Roos
My reflux produces hearts at 70 deg C. Is that fine or should I change my digital temp indicator.
thank you for your great video ... i have a question and it makes me confuse ,if i use reflux still do i get my vodka percentage above 90 percent till my mash alcohol is end or the alcohol precent lower and lower by the time ?
and do i must put copper scrubbers or marble into the column to see reflux action or its not necessary thank you for ur reply ....
?
mind blown, ok you said that running a stripping run, you lose the flavor and get the alcohol faster. then you said the ones that do this save up and rerun it slower and makes higher proof and retains flavor, ( I thought you said was lost in stripping run), how does it get the flavor back that was lost???
OOPS. Must have been a lack of concentration.
Sorry about that. I plan to do a new one soon.
I'll get it right. The flavor can't come back.
George
? Huh? 2:30 he says it will retain all the flavour.
Can you put copper scrubber in a pot still column?
Question wen ur mash stops perkulating bubbles wen should u run it how many days of a window do u have
It’ll be alcohol at that point. Depending on your OG, should be 7-20% ABV. It’ll be fine to sit forever probably, especially if the vessel is sealed. Even if your mash goes sour you would be fine to run it, might have to strip it and add it to the next run because a bit of that sour can come thru in the distillation.
+Barley and Hops Brewing LLC, +George Duncan, I have this still but haven't used the reflux yet but aren't you suppose to be able to regulate that water entering the pre-condenser to balance the reflux ? or does it not matter in this set up ?
Yes. That is what the red handled valve included in the water control system is for. It goes between the pump and the inlet of the reflux chamber. You then meter the water flow by adjusting that valve. Hope this helps
George
I know what your talking about (its in your other video ) but there is no red valve shown in this video, also this still only has one inlet and one outlet as opposed to the other still that has 2 sets... unless i'm mistaken. also thank you for taking the time to respond, im a HUGE fan.
I see what you mean. Yes, you are correct and this is a good question. There are variants to the reflux still and Mile High has packaged their 3 gallon Mighty Mini without the valve. This will require the operator to rely almost entirely on the heating source to control the reflux action. This works but I always prefer to have a separate method to control water flow. That way I have more control over the entire process. If you own a variant as in the video I would recommend that you add a valve or even a completely separate water pump and hose for the reflux alone. That way you can turn on the condenser and then operate the reflux portion independent of the condenser. This is just a marketing approach taken by Mile High (not my favorite but still effective). Hope this clears it up a little more.
George
you nailed it, thanks so much !!!
I run my water pump from my swimming pool to a garden hose that I cut in half. Half for the in and other half for the out water. I rigged a round garden hose spigot valve and adjust the flow with it based on the temp. As the temp rises on the column thermometer. More water flow will he needed. I can control how fast or slow the product drips out by adjusting that valve. Don't use a ball valve because it won't let you make fine adjustments. Get the round handle valve.
Short Mountain Distillery: ..."because copper binds with hydrogen sulfide and isobutyl mercaptans and forms copper sulfate."
"The copper sulfate tends to bond with fatty acids and oils to eliminate skunky and rotten egg smells from the spirit."
Just got the dual purpose reflux still so my question is. Do you keep the water cold and flowing like crazy in the reflux collum like crazy to keep the alcohol from condensing into the outlet line for awhile then turn it down to start getting that flow and higher percentage?
The water flow in the reflux chamber must be metered. Start with a slow trickle and adjust after that. If it is too much flow the still will not produce.
George
Awesome thank you that helps but I’m trying to get at before I let any product run do I run the reflux chamber fast to let the alcohol run up and down the chamber before I let it run out ?
There is no right way to do the wrong thing. Don't try to short cut or make your still do something it will do anyway by itself. Sometimes over thinking the process can cause more issues than it resolves.
George
looks like i could run a reflux to "strip run" high grade alcohol then run without cooling jacket , as a pot still to get flavors
Joe Brown
That’s the point...
Or simply flavor the spirit after cutting it to a usable proof.
I believe some people use gin baskets and/or flavoring chambers after the reflux column to introduce subtle flavors to even high test alcohol that reflux stills produce.👍🥃
isnt there a need to control the amount of water in the precondensor because then wouldnt you be condensing too much or does that not matter ?
Not sure I understand this question.
Yes you need to control the flow of water in the reflux column with a valve of some sort...
Too much cooling on the column nothing comes out...
Too little cooling and the reflux is not going to run effectively or efficiently.
I think that is what you’re asking.👍🥃
i have a quesion if i remove the saddles and copper and put botanicles in it will i get flavour out when its turned into alcahol
Yes
nice video george...Thk..
Probably a no brainer question, but if using a reflux still, would you get the same amount of methanol as in a pot still?
A reflux still would be able to separate them better. The (very small amounts of) methanol comes out first in the "heads"
what temp would you run the stripping run and how many would you run before you run a slow run? thanks!
Varies still to still. It's not a "set temperature".
When George says "it's run hotter for a stripping run" he means that you put more energy into the kettle faster so you take the product off faster and the whole run takes less time (downside is you get a lot more water and unwanted by-products coming across and your likker will be a lower proof/abv and worse tasting because of that - which is why you don't "run-your-lawnmower" on a stripping run).
"A slow run" refers to energy being added to the kettle less aggressively so it heats up and operates more slowly than with the stripping run. You run it slow and you get less cogeners and water coming and a higher started abv usually - but it takes longer for the whole run.
The most obvious visible difference between a stripping run (hot run) and a Spirit run (cool run) to the person running the still is the amount of product coming off the product condenser/parrot.
Spirit run (for a home still) it's the small pencil lead sized stream/drip-drip/stream trickle, ... Stripping run (hot) it's a gusher! :o)
You'd usually (if you're being economical) want to do enough stripping runs to fill your kettle AFTER it's diluted back to 40%abv or less. Then you can do a finishing run or "Spirit run".
NEVER do a spirit run with anything over 35% to 40% abv ... otherwise you just built yourself a potential bomb. :o)
I run mine at 208f, until ABV is about 20%. Just 1 stripping run per new mash content.
+Barley and Hops Brewing LLC when do you do a stripping run do you have to separate the fore shots and heads or does it just all get dumped in ? also when do you know when to stop stripping or does it not matter ?
If you are running a reflux stripping is not recommended. The stripping process is normally reserved for pot stills where one would run the still hot and fast. Foreshot are still removed and thrown out. The finished product is then re-distilled in a final run.
George
so basically dump everything between 145 and 179 degrees correct ? 179 -204 get thrown into another mash then brought up slow as you instruct to do correct ? just ordered my outback from mile high im excited !
still waiting on the thumper video
It's still in the cue for shooting.
George
Can't see upper column of still
Do you sell these stills? If so where can I buy one?
Yes we do. Just give us a call at 254-681-1760. All of our business is over the phone.
George
@@BarleyandHopsBrewing mail pls
you don't "ascribe" to the "idea" of a chemical reaction between the copper and distillate. That is science, that is fact. Just wanted to clear that up.
As for the question, "is copper better?", well, that depends on your final goal. if you are after a clean, neutral, spirit then the answer is unequivocally and undeniably YES. but if you are after some kind of taste that you like, that the copper changes or removes, then of course no. also, FYI, the copper has to be in contact with the alcohol vapor to work. this is why distillation columns are sometimes made with either copper packing in the vapor lines, or they just make the top of the column copper instead of the whole thing.
the copper reacts with sulfer compounds and removes them by binding with them. you then wash this off (the copper will turn black when this happens)
Well just saw another one of your videos where you basically explain all this. I was just a little surprised that there were "two opposing views" on the use of copper for a cleaner alcohol. Coming from a professional distillation engineering background, this is just a fact...not really open to interpretation. That other video was a much better explanation of this.
Thanks.
George
Please clarify. If I want (basically) more of the flavor from my mash to come through. I would then want to use the Pot Still, probably stainless steel instead of copper. If I want a more neutral spirit and perhaps a bit stronger. That is when I would want a Reflux Still and include Copper (or more copper as the case may be)
Just my 2 cents but if it will strip out sulfur compounds I think I would want some copper in the linkage no matter what still was used.
"running a reflux still"... doesn't start talking about it until 3:02
where is this legal?
+duane freeman Nowhere in the United States.
George
Barley and Hops where are you at?
+duane freeman ~ If you fill out a form and mail it to the feds, you can legally make ethanol fuel with it.
Plus, if all you're doing is making it for yourself and not selling it, the feds won't screw with you. Could they? Yes. Will they? Unlikely. They don't have the budget to try and find everyone who is making it for personal consumption. Just remember, pay in cash, and don't have it shipped to your address.
+moncorp1 Sorry I cant agree. There is no flexibility with the permit. It is for fuel only and does not cover you if you make a drinkable product. I know of a few who have a permit and yes, they check. May not check everyone but they do check. As far as paying cash and not shipping to your address goes if you apply for a permit it doesn't matter. They no who you are and where you are at.
Barley and Hops You don't understand what I was saying.