Opinionated Voyager Episode Guide looks at Demon, named after a hostile planet type no sane person would ever approach. So Voyager decides to land the whole ship on it.
Can you imagine the events of this episode from the perspective of the rest of the crew? "We're setting course for a DEMON class planet?!?" "WHAT??? We're LANDING on the demon class planet?!?!? Is our captain f***ing crazy?!?!?!?" "Attention, this is your captain speaking. Aliens want to clone our entire crew, so exactly that our memories are copied into exact duplicates. I said yes on everyone's behalf. Suit up and go for a stroll on the demon planet at 0800."
it's kinda funny how the planet's temperature is supposed to be over 500 kelvin (220 celsius, 440 fahrenheit), and yet when tom and harry's suits developed a hole only the air escaped and they didn't immediately cook alive with the extreme heat of the planet, especially when they were unconscious for hours, exposed to it, and the clones had absolutely no problem moving over 200 kelvin below, it was just the air that made them suffocate, not the extreme cold by their standards making the fluid they're made of immediately crystallize. that's like exposing a human to a bath in liquid nitrogen and he only complains it stinks.
Personally, I really like this episode *because* it tried something so different with a completely inhospitable world, a strange new lifeform, and character growth with Harry. I was also quite a bit younger when I saw it and didn't think of the scientific plot holes. Could it have been more? Yes. But at the end of the day, it's one of the most memorable episodes of Voyager for me.
I first watched this as a teenager and thats why the scientific nonsense was more visible to me. I would have loved Star Trek-episodes with more strange, but from todays knowledge possible worlds. This is sadly as bad as Enterprise's "Rogue Planet".
Ironically this episode is proof that the writers could occasionally remember something they previously wrote. Neelix really does know a Vulcan funeral dirge. But as usual, the possibilities that episode created are forgotten and Tuvok is a dick to a guy he shared a consciousness with.
Fun fact: those red things on the front of Warp nacelles, are "Bussard collectors", which purpose is to scoop up stuff like hydrogen, which includes deuterium, too. Maybe writers meant "dilithium", but spell-check corrected it?
The idea of a non sentient life gaining sentient by first contact is such a cool idea wasted on this episode. I mean that was the inciting incident in my own world building game I did once.
6:52 I know, storytelling the audience and all, but it’s funny that the warning message wastes time to clarify it’s talking about Harry rather than just limiting the message to Harry’s suit
Was that producer insulting the crew's weight a real thing? Some of the behind the scenes stories are so ridiculous that I can't tell if they're real or a joke.
I recently read a book that was a history of Star Trek told on interviews with cast and executives of the show. They discussed this episode specifically. The writers really did write that dialogue to fat shame the actors. When the cast confronted them about it, the writers doubled down and told the actors that if they didn’t lay off the junk food, they would have to retitle the show “Star Trek: Pigs in Space”.
Voyager is a burning dumpster aboard a Packlid ship with a burst plasma conduit spiraling into a sun. I’m not surprised that in the background something insane was happening
Fortunately, this very exact quote wasn't said by any specific person who could be personally held responsible, it was just expressed telepathically by the collective mind of The Producers.
@@soljafon chuck's channels get copyright claimed a lot and taken down often. Like, he's had many channels and a website with all his content for over the past decade. Don't be fooled by the YT views. Just check out his website for all his vids if you want to see more. So, definitely more people would show up rather than a tiny amount. All hail chuck
I suppose cleaning the warp plasma manifolds could make sense as a job they rotate. Voyager was not planned for long term missions so that kind of maintenance was always done when docked at the station. With it probably being a relatively simple job, they decided the fairest thing is a rotating schedule. The question remains why risk your head pilot being exhausted from a hard labor job when going into a dangerous situation, but Voyager gonna Voyager.
Except that _Voyager_ was designed for long term exploration. Mind, what exactly that means in _Star Trek_ in the _NextGen_ era is something I'm not entirely clear on.
So two crew members are missing on an incredibly deadly planet, and Janeway turns down sending another shuttle (risking one more crew member) in favor of taking the entire ship (risking everyone). Well, when Janeway plans to go down swinging AND taking everyone with her, she freaking means
If I had the knowledge of science I do now, when this aired, it likely would have made me throw something at the screen when they were looking for deuterium. Stop by any star, or any gas giant, hell the vacuum of space would likely have enough to power a ship of that size.
Well there is another explanation: Perhaps it's not the writers fault, it's Voyagers crew thats just incompetent. They know how FTL-Travel works, but easy science is beyond them. Janeway never looked to me like she really was a competent science officer ...
@@lordmontymord8701 Well, the only blue uniform that comes to mind is the Doctor, though apparently Janeway was a science officer before she became a captain.
@@MyPisceanNature That's what i meant. She was a science officer before just like Archer was a trained diplomat ... both must have had severe head-injuries before taking command.
4:48 Harry: "I fought the Borg........and the Borg won" All together now - "He fought the Borg and... aw forget it - they rejected him". Sigh. Also, notice how at 12:50, landed Voyager looks a lot like a constipated duck?
No, definitly not - just like its impossible to find Deutherium anywhere else, like lets say on a planet with a LOT OF WATER. Of course in this episode the writers just didn't want any other solution because then the story wouldn't work, but you really have to ask why Trek has worse drones and robots than we already had in the 80s and 90s ...
"It's almost 500 degrees Kelvin!" Is that supposed to be impressive? That's about 227C or 540F. Sure, that's hot for a human, but there's also protective gear that can survive environments on Earth that are much hotter. Geologically speaking 500K is a walk in the park, let alone cosmologically speaking.
DRAMATIC EFFECT! Simply subtracting 273.15 gives celsius. Multiply that result by 9/5 or 1.8 and add 32 gives Fahrenheit. DAMMIT JIM - I remembered this from school physics when I first [long intake of breath, sigh], saw this episode. On revisiting it now once again I just feel tired all over - I NEED a Stupid Neelix Moment (who doesn't?)......
There is this planet in Sol system, Venus it's called. Average temperature at surface is 737 degrees Kelvin. With air pressure of 92 atmospheres. Soviet Union managed to send probes to its surface, starting with Venera 4 in 1967. Considering this episode it proves that socialist dystopia of Soviet Union was better at science and exploration than socialist utopia of Federation.
Technically, if another shuttle were used instead of a starship. The Silverbloods would end up having the ability to explore their current star system and it would save them from Oblivion. Janeway killed quite a few new lifeforms by making a crazy decision to land a starship on a Demon class planet. I wonder if these Silverbloods were a variation of the Founders.
Well for stars you have you have special shield modifications like the Enterprise D used, the ones that were designed by a Ferengi scientist. So yes, this type of planet is worse 🤣
"Tuvix" - image the result if it had been Tuvok and Harry, or Harry and Neelix rather than Tuvok and Neelix! The result? "Arselix"?, "Tubutt"? Just musin'.
Would the answer to Janeway’s question of “how far a human can travel in space powered by a potato gun” be indefinitely, at least until the hit something?
Let's face it, Janeway is as crazy as the aliens in "Scientific Method". Your answer is correct, but she would still want to run a test - just for fun ... 😈
I really hope so! At the very least, SFD has to do a few cutaways, to compare what Hologram Janeway does to what Insaneway would do. The idea only gets more interesting, at the cliffhanger just before Prodigy’s mid-season finale. But I won’t spoil that for you 😉
@@NineWorldsFromDrew Also the walkthrough of Mirror Janeway from STO. It is ripe with goodies with Chuck trying to get one Janeway out psycho the other. One can dream.
OK: the first time I saw this episode I was in high school and had no idea what Deuterium was. As you said it, I realized how stupid this episode was. Its sci-fi: is it too much to ask that one person with a hard science degree be on the writing staff? I'm not asking for Futerama's three Ph. D.s, seven master's degrees, and cumulatively more than 50 years at Harvard University. Just one hard science degree?
Where do we look for Deuterium? Since it is a hydrogen isotope maybe on a world with a lot of water, so a Class M-planet would be good. And then we use a Deuterium Refinery. But no, we better fly as long as we can, so we have no reserves left. There is competence and then there is Voyager ... And i'm on Tuvoks side, by the way. No offense to Chuck, but if it's a book that Neelix reads every day, it's probably trash - or it contains good material, but the hedgehog doesn't understand it. Either way, i wouldn't want him to bother other people with it. And what did we learn from Enterprise? Vulcans have a good sense of smell. So i don't want to know how hard it was for Tuvok to be near Neelix's bedding. Probably wasn't washed since he came on board ...
This has really clarified for me just how terrible an episode “Demon” was. If this was just a set-up for “Course: Oblivion”, then that’s still a shoddy excuse for its complete absence of consistency. It’s like this episode was written by someone, who doesn’t understand how anything in the Trek universe works!
So... that deuterium is absolutely not deuterium. this irks me and makes me give the episode an additional -1. Deuterium is hydrogen that is twice as dense. it would NOT pool. it wouldn't even be visible. it probably *couldn't* even exist there as it is so light it'd be relegated to the atmosphere. I get that it's evil space goo, but they don't remark upon such basic science so... derp. What you've got there is more like... I dunno, sulfur hexafluoride or something maybe, but you couldn't see that either. There's better ways of doing the thing. it should just be freakin' dilithium, and be like 'oh holy crap, it's liquified here! that can't be good. lowsy demon planet...'
This is what happens when people who write 'science' fiction think all the words they don't recognize are made up things that can have any properties they desire. Never mind that when you're milking a decades-old IP even the made up stuff has rules.
I'm sure the writers didn't know Deuterium is real and maybe confused it with Dilithium or some shit ... If they had a scientific advisor that person was probably just there for the paycheck - just like medical advisors on hospital shows aren't actually allowed to correct mistakes.
I like Demon as an episode, but Strange New world really was a good episode and still better than Demon. Seriously, you're unfairly harsh on Enterprise.
Can you imagine the events of this episode from the perspective of the rest of the crew?
"We're setting course for a DEMON class planet?!?"
"WHAT??? We're LANDING on the demon class planet?!?!? Is our captain f***ing crazy?!?!?!?"
"Attention, this is your captain speaking. Aliens want to clone our entire crew, so exactly that our memories are copied into exact duplicates. I said yes on everyone's behalf. Suit up and go for a stroll on the demon planet at 0800."
These are the kind of stories that would be great for Lower Decks - but no, the show wants to be a bad Rick & Morty-copy.
"That, Mr Vulcan, is the selected works, of Durex"
"Only essential items, Mr Neelix"
"Oh, Durex is essential!"
It's my industrial strength Durex, AND I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT IT!
@@zimmerwald1915 :D I was thinking about that! XD
it's kinda funny how the planet's temperature is supposed to be over 500 kelvin (220 celsius, 440 fahrenheit), and yet when tom and harry's suits developed a hole only the air escaped and they didn't immediately cook alive with the extreme heat of the planet, especially when they were unconscious for hours, exposed to it, and the clones had absolutely no problem moving over 200 kelvin below, it was just the air that made them suffocate, not the extreme cold by their standards making the fluid they're made of immediately crystallize. that's like exposing a human to a bath in liquid nitrogen and he only complains it stinks.
I think Janeway went to the demon planet BECAUSE Chakotay said it was too dangerous for the crew.
Im shocked she didn't try to lob a few photon torpedoes at them while they were down there
Personally, I really like this episode *because* it tried something so different with a completely inhospitable world, a strange new lifeform, and character growth with Harry. I was also quite a bit younger when I saw it and didn't think of the scientific plot holes.
Could it have been more? Yes. But at the end of the day, it's one of the most memorable episodes of Voyager for me.
I first watched this as a teenager and thats why the scientific nonsense was more visible to me. I would have loved Star Trek-episodes with more strange, but from todays knowledge possible worlds.
This is sadly as bad as Enterprise's "Rogue Planet".
Ironically this episode is proof that the writers could occasionally remember something they previously wrote. Neelix really does know a Vulcan funeral dirge. But as usual, the possibilities that episode created are forgotten and Tuvok is a dick to a guy he shared a consciousness with.
Deuterium, which they could easily find adrift in space, or just by scooping it up from one of the many planets they find that are all ocean.
Shhh, don't bring logic into an inconsistently written scifi show.
You want that free range Deuterium though for your best replicated Coffee.
@@broodjebamibal That stuff will kill ya!
The answer: Voyager gets bad gas mileage
Fun fact: those red things on the front of Warp nacelles, are "Bussard collectors", which purpose is to scoop up stuff like hydrogen, which includes deuterium, too.
Maybe writers meant "dilithium", but spell-check corrected it?
The idea of a non sentient life gaining sentient by first contact is such a cool idea wasted on this episode.
I mean that was the inciting incident in my own world building game I did once.
"One of the most common things in the universe besides stupidity."
Doctor McCoy was partially wrong...stupidity is the only constant of the universe. The bureaucratic mentality is merely a subset of it.
6:52 I know, storytelling the audience and all, but it’s funny that the warning message wastes time to clarify it’s talking about Harry rather than just limiting the message to Harry’s suit
It's like that scene from The Office where a cop pulls over Dwight and refers to him by name. Like this shit has already happened before.
Was that producer insulting the crew's weight a real thing? Some of the behind the scenes stories are so ridiculous that I can't tell if they're real or a joke.
I recently read a book that was a history of Star Trek told on interviews with cast and executives of the show. They discussed this episode specifically. The writers really did write that dialogue to fat shame the actors. When the cast confronted them about it, the writers doubled down and told the actors that if they didn’t lay off the junk food, they would have to retitle the show “Star Trek: Pigs in Space”.
Voyager is a burning dumpster aboard a Packlid ship with a burst plasma conduit spiraling into a sun. I’m not surprised that in the background something insane was happening
Fortunately, this very exact quote wasn't said by any specific person who could be personally held responsible, it was just expressed telepathically by the collective mind of The Producers.
@@Lemon_Inspector In the book, Garrett Wang attributed the "Pigs In Space" remark to Brannon Braga.
@@johnhutchinson7343 Why am i not surprised?
Fun fact: If chuck held a meetup at a local bar...well...the bar would have a lot of people.
Nearly 4!
@@soljafon chuck's channels get copyright claimed a lot and taken down often. Like, he's had many channels and a website with all his content for over the past decade. Don't be fooled by the YT views. Just check out his website for all his vids if you want to see more. So, definitely more people would show up rather than a tiny amount. All hail chuck
@@drockjr I'm aware of that, still one has to take in to account how far people would have to travel and how willing people would be
@@soljafon k.
@@soljafon no distance is too far for chuck!
I suppose cleaning the warp plasma manifolds could make sense as a job they rotate. Voyager was not planned for long term missions so that kind of maintenance was always done when docked at the station. With it probably being a relatively simple job, they decided the fairest thing is a rotating schedule. The question remains why risk your head pilot being exhausted from a hard labor job when going into a dangerous situation, but Voyager gonna Voyager.
Except that _Voyager_ was designed for long term exploration. Mind, what exactly that means in _Star Trek_ in the _NextGen_ era is something I'm not entirely clear on.
11:17 "the melting point of tin"
well, tin is one of the lowest melting metals I can think of.
The ship on the planet looks ridiculous. There's no way 4 supports could hold something that large up, on dirt.
Pollution Walrus: (EVIL LAUGHTER)
Well, with a name like that he's obviously a Maverick. Thus, a job for X and Zero.
So two crew members are missing on an incredibly deadly planet, and Janeway turns down sending another shuttle (risking one more crew member) in favor of taking the entire ship (risking everyone). Well, when Janeway plans to go down swinging AND taking everyone with her, she freaking means
If I had the knowledge of science I do now, when this aired, it likely would have made me throw something at the screen when they were looking for deuterium. Stop by any star, or any gas giant, hell the vacuum of space would likely have enough to power a ship of that size.
Well there is another explanation: Perhaps it's not the writers fault, it's Voyagers crew thats just incompetent. They know how FTL-Travel works, but easy science is beyond them. Janeway never looked to me like she really was a competent science officer ...
@@lordmontymord8701 Well, the only blue uniform that comes to mind is the Doctor, though apparently Janeway was a science officer before she became a captain.
@@MyPisceanNature That's what i meant. She was a science officer before just like Archer was a trained diplomat ... both must have had severe head-injuries before taking command.
4:48 Harry: "I fought the Borg........and the Borg won" All together now - "He fought the Borg and... aw forget it - they rejected him". Sigh. Also, notice how at 12:50, landed Voyager looks a lot like a constipated duck?
🎶I fought the Borg, and the Borg won. 🎶
Neelix: But I need my bedtime stories!
Was there NO WAY they could use a remote probe or array to get the shit they needed from the surface???
No, definitly not - just like its impossible to find Deutherium anywhere else, like lets say on a planet with a LOT OF WATER.
Of course in this episode the writers just didn't want any other solution because then the story wouldn't work, but you really have to ask why Trek has worse drones and robots than we already had in the 80s and 90s ...
Hey, as for sunk-cost, you don't want to start throwing good Chakote after bad!
"It's almost 500 degrees Kelvin!"
Is that supposed to be impressive?
That's about 227C or 540F. Sure, that's hot for a human, but there's also protective gear that can survive environments on Earth that are much hotter. Geologically speaking 500K is a walk in the park, let alone cosmologically speaking.
I've taken to mentally editing the script in some cases. "It's almost 500 degrees, Kevin!"
DRAMATIC EFFECT! Simply subtracting 273.15 gives celsius. Multiply that result by 9/5 or 1.8 and add 32 gives Fahrenheit. DAMMIT JIM - I remembered this from school physics when I first [long intake of breath, sigh], saw this episode. On revisiting it now once again I just feel tired all over - I NEED a Stupid Neelix Moment (who doesn't?)......
There is this planet in Sol system, Venus it's called. Average temperature at surface is 737 degrees Kelvin. With air pressure of 92 atmospheres. Soviet Union managed to send probes to its surface, starting with Venera 4 in 1967. Considering this episode it proves that socialist dystopia of Soviet Union was better at science and exploration than socialist utopia of Federation.
I thought the same: the temperature inside my backing oven is too much for a probe.
@@urgon6321 I guess Venus was the inspiration for that planet, but they screwed it up by making it actually way more harmless in all regards.
I loved Course: Oblivion, mostly.
The balls will lose cohesion 😂
Sadly there is not enough energy in the universe to give Harry stable balls 🤣
Now I know how she got the nickname insane way
The Apollo crew went to a sound stage. :)
I'd have to imagine it would be hotter than 228c/440f on a DEMON planet
Technically, if another shuttle were used instead of a starship. The Silverbloods would end up having the ability to explore their current star system and it would save them from Oblivion. Janeway killed quite a few new lifeforms by making a crazy decision to land a starship on a Demon class planet. I wonder if these Silverbloods were a variation of the Founders.
A story about a frog whos a boxer sounds like a pixar movie in the making.
They hit the fluid with some technobabble. 🤣🤣🤣
The most inhospitable place is a class Y planet? Worse than the inside of a star?
Well for stars you have you have special shield modifications like the Enterprise D used, the ones that were designed by a Ferengi scientist.
So yes, this type of planet is worse 🤣
At least this episode sets up a really good one later down the road.
"Tuvix" - image the result if it had been Tuvok and Harry, or Harry and Neelix rather than Tuvok and Neelix! The result? "Arselix"?, "Tubutt"? Just musin'.
I liked the sequel to this one.
Demon planet?
Does Starfleet use the One Punch Man scale of danger?
You do know Voyager predates One Punch Man right?
@@Mate397 I think it's a joke.
*gasps in telaxian*
You do like Neelix.
Shhhh!!!….. I won’t tell
Surely neelix's blanky is _rank_ though....
Would the answer to Janeway’s question of “how far a human can travel in space powered by a potato gun” be indefinitely, at least until the hit something?
Obviously, what the question is actually about, in technical terms, is how much delta-v you can get.
Let's face it, Janeway is as crazy as the aliens in "Scientific Method". Your answer is correct, but she would still want to run a test - just for fun ... 😈
Any chance Psycho Janeway will return now that there's the show on Paramount + with her as a hologram?
I really hope so! At the very least, SFD has to do a few cutaways, to compare what Hologram Janeway does to what Insaneway would do.
The idea only gets more interesting, at the cliffhanger just before Prodigy’s mid-season finale. But I won’t spoil that for you 😉
@@NineWorldsFromDrew Also the walkthrough of Mirror Janeway from STO. It is ripe with goodies with Chuck trying to get one Janeway out psycho the other. One can dream.
OK: the first time I saw this episode I was in high school and had no idea what Deuterium was. As you said it, I realized how stupid this episode was. Its sci-fi: is it too much to ask that one person with a hard science degree be on the writing staff? I'm not asking for Futerama's three Ph. D.s, seven master's degrees, and cumulatively more than 50 years at Harvard University. Just one hard science degree?
Why didn’t anyone think to send the Doctor down? 🤦♂️
Isn't Deuterium only in nebulas?
The selected works of…Durex? Really?
Where do we look for Deuterium? Since it is a hydrogen isotope maybe on a world with a lot of water, so a Class M-planet would be good. And then we use a Deuterium Refinery. But no, we better fly as long as we can, so we have no reserves left.
There is competence and then there is Voyager ...
And i'm on Tuvoks side, by the way. No offense to Chuck, but if it's a book that Neelix reads every day, it's probably trash - or it contains good material, but the hedgehog doesn't understand it. Either way, i wouldn't want him to bother other people with it.
And what did we learn from Enterprise? Vulcans have a good sense of smell. So i don't want to know how hard it was for Tuvok to be near Neelix's bedding. Probably wasn't washed since he came on board ...
This has really clarified for me just how terrible an episode “Demon” was. If this was just a set-up for “Course: Oblivion”, then that’s still a shoddy excuse for its complete absence of consistency. It’s like this episode was written by someone, who doesn’t understand how anything in the Trek universe works!
So this is pre Delta Flyer?
Yup. IIRC, Delta Flyer was made to retrieve one of those delicate probes from the atmosphere of a gas giant...
@@urgon6321 Even if they already had the Flyer the writers would have made an excuse why that thing wouldn't work on a DEMON CLASS PLANET
8:24 Why didn't you do that in the first place?
So... that deuterium is absolutely not deuterium. this irks me and makes me give the episode an additional -1. Deuterium is hydrogen that is twice as dense. it would NOT pool. it wouldn't even be visible. it probably *couldn't* even exist there as it is so light it'd be relegated to the atmosphere. I get that it's evil space goo, but they don't remark upon such basic science so... derp.
What you've got there is more like... I dunno, sulfur hexafluoride or something maybe, but you couldn't see that either. There's better ways of doing the thing. it should just be freakin' dilithium, and be like 'oh holy crap, it's liquified here! that can't be good. lowsy demon planet...'
This is what happens when people who write 'science' fiction think all the words they don't recognize are made up things that can have any properties they desire. Never mind that when you're milking a decades-old IP even the made up stuff has rules.
I'm sure the writers didn't know Deuterium is real and maybe confused it with Dilithium or some shit ...
If they had a scientific advisor that person was probably just there for the paycheck - just like medical advisors on hospital shows aren't actually allowed to correct mistakes.
I like Demon as an episode, but Strange New world really was a good episode and still better than Demon. Seriously, you're unfairly harsh on Enterprise.
I'm gay and it's incredible how Course Oblivion manages to make even less sense than this
Not sure what liking sausage has to do with it.