Ultimecia's Real Name | Final Fantasy VIII
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- čas přidán 4. 05. 2020
- This video is a deep dive into Ultimecia's character, and unveils some surprising revelations pertaining to her design.
Be sure to check out my livestream at:
/ investigativegaming
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/ investigativeg
Thanks for watching! - Hry
in the German Game the Translation was Artemisia
exactly.
Italian too
Yes, it was brought up at 16:19.
Spanish too!
I just love this kind of meticulous picking through of the various issues - you do it so thoroughly and so precisely, with all the expertise and logical thought that a lot of the fandom could do with a lot more of.
I especially loved your approach to transliteration shenanigans, coming up with other examples of how names are written in katakana to prove why it's X and not Y, heading off any potential criticisms before they can be spoken.
Incredible attention to detail. Instant subscribe!!
Love this, wow! I always thought the name "Ultimecia" was one she chose for herself, as it was her ambition to be the last and the ultimate. "Artemisia" is now, for me, undeniably her birth name, and Halicarnassus is either a predecessor or fictional sorceress from VIII's world.
I thought Ultimecia maybe comes from Ultimate.. because the strongest sorceress
my speculation is, ultimecia tragic lore is inspired by legend of artemis.. in the ff8, the game had a lore of great hyne.. how he lose a battle to his tools (human).. and he split his body into two part.. one had magical power that ran away.. and one had lesser power that humans battled each other to had it.. then learned that the true hyne with magical power had ran away.. the lore said hyne (half of his body that ran away) used to take refuge inside a female body.. in the game sorceresses are called decendants of great hyne.. i noticed the final battle is kind of retelling the lore of when humans battled hyne.. that ultimecia junctioned griever when started to get defeated she split lower half of their bodies.. kind of same what happen when hyne get defeated by humans for the first time.. where hyne split his body in half for humans.. in the final form when hyne appear, the physical body of ultimecia were seen lifeless dangling from belly down.. now, i think ultimecia was just any random woman that are unfortunate enough to be posessed by power of magical hyne.. but outside the game lore, artemis is known to grief for her lover death a mere mortal unlike her.. perhaps, ultimecia once had a knight that could be her lover.. she also probably a good sorceress that refused to give up her sorceress power to any other unfortunated woman until the end of times.. but also since she uses gf junctioning (apparently she had griever as her gf) from time to time she started to lose her mind (the game tutorial stated memory loss was thought to be possible side effect of juctioning gf.. plus she also inherit power of great hyne) and started to become evil ended up killing her knight/ lover just like the legend of artemis did (artemis got deceived by apollo).. then succumbed to what hyne always wanted.. to get rid of humans.. time compression etc..
Oh my god, this would explain their fear of people hating them!! The lore goes all the way back to Hyne as you depicted it! Makes me wonder, if the magic he hid away in women, manifested into that creature on the final phase of the final battle. Also, we got an example of what happens to a sorceress if they held on to their powers too long, With how Adel looked. Then, we see Ultimecia's true form with the upper half of the body being the focal point, and her small human form just dangling at the bottom like a depiction that she was a slave to the power of a sorceress.
It's a crime you only have 138 subscribers! That was an amazing watch, appreciate all your research and work you've put into the video.
I agree, so I subscribed. He's closing in on 200 now.
It’s must be Ultimecia’s doing.. she brought his channel back in time lol
You're blowing my mind. I wanna share this video but I dunno if I know anyone who would be into this as much
This was honestly one of the coolest things I have ever seen regarding history and multiverse madness. Thank you SO MUCH for putting this whole video together.
Great job!! I didn't know what to expect when I saw the length of your video, but now I can say only one thing... I want more
You definitely did your research, wow.
Wow - it's so rare to see a youtube video claiming to know some secret about final fantasy and it actually being original and unique. Well done.
As a lifelong FF VIII fan and FF fan in general. Also for one like myself who likes these obscure bits of information, this was a fantastic video.
To me ultimecia’s name is perfection, what a gorgeous kreation !!
I thought it’s the Ultimate
@Omega-jg4oq Man, she did always spam Ultima though. So I really thought her name was based on that spell...
Wow, great investigation! My favorite character
Hardest final boss fought in all of final fantasy
Bro, this is so well researched. Hope you keep uploading new content!
Let's also consider that this connection also may have been a subtle yet intentional nod by developers that, had Square maintained the original numbering sequence of the western Final Fantasy releases/sequels (Final Fantasy 4ej = Final Fantasy II, Final Fantasy VI = Final Fantasy III), then Final Fantasy VII would have been numbered Final Fantasy IV in the west, and Final Fantasy VIII in the west would have been numbered...Final Fantasy V.
Wonderful work you've done. It's mindboggling how much thought and work put in these games, kudos to everyone who participated in building the final fantasy verse.
My jaw dropped when you pulled up the wiki article. I've been a fanboy of FF8 for a very very long time and this revelation makes me feel like a kid again.
Loved this video a lot. Thank you for that elaboration.
I played the German version and I have also always known her as Artemisia. Although I really love how Ultimecia sounds
Thank the algorithm for recommending this. Truly an incredible video!
This ruins a little bit of Ultimecia's mystique for me, BUT it's really interesting and probably 100% correct. I definitely never would have made the connections to FFV before watching this. Nice job with your research & presentation!
Side note: I was sure we would fight Ultimecia at the end of the Eden raid series in XIV, since other FFs' final bosses had been directly brought in for Omega. I was sad when that only halfway happened, but now I see that that also halfway happened IN Omega, and I am happy. It's like we actually did fight Ultimecia in XIV, just split into conceptual halves. :)
Thx for the investigation, Dude!
It could be that Artemisia and Ultimecia are both equally valid. Perhaps because Japanese is a language where the same kanji can have multiple readings, when the Japanese name things in media they like to pull in multiple interpretations. Take a look at Godzilla. His name (ゴジラ, gojira) comes from the Japanese words for gorilla (ゴリラ, gorira), referencing his bipedal stance, and whale (くじら, kujira) referencing his size and how he moves through the water. But the name "Godzilla" is not a transliteration error! Toho Film chose that romanization in order to convey that the monster is in some sense a god (a kami, or nature spirit).
It's entirely possible that at Squaresoft they wanted to give their villain a historic name like Artemisia and simultaneously convey that she is a malevolent force of destruction like the spell Ultima -- hence, Ultimecia.
In support of this I submit that the last female Final Fantasy main villain was Final Fantasy III's "Could of Darkness", itself a malevolent force that assumed female shape.
Very mind-blowing. This just puts more fire under my feet to play the pre-FF7 Final Fantasy games.
Excellent video, it really surprised me! I thought you were going to talk about the greek godess Artemis/Artemisa and her association with the moon (another theme of this game), but ended up actually learning a lot. Thank you!
I'll do that for you. Artemesia herself was named after Artemis. So it goes to say that transitive, a reference to Artemesia would be a reference to Artemis.
That's why her hair's done in the shape of a bow and the hunter's moon is present in her boss fight.
When I first played, I thought she called gave herself the name Ultimecia because she was that convinced of her superiority rather than it being a true name. This certainly fleshes out the origin though.
This is an awesome deep dive. I always assumed Ultimecia was just a name to show her as the ultimate--literally last--sorceress. While I liked your research, I felt it was a stretch... at first. But the bow that convinced me was your connection between Artemisia and Halicarnassus (sp). Damn. Good stuff.
Also, your getting a new subscriber right now!
I always knew there had to be more connections between 5 and 8. Bravo! well done in finding them!
Artemisia is also known for grieving the loss of her husband in a particularly extreme way, essentially going insane for a time. This actually seemed to support the R=U theory, as it’s the only explanation for the name Griever, it’s a pretty specific word to use.
YEAH
Artemisia? I thought its Ultimecia, lol. :-)
"as it’s the only explanation for the name Griever" until you look at the actual translation from Japanese, where she says she picks Squall's most "powerful GF" directly from his "mind". And in his mind: That's Griever.
Omg for the last time. Ultimecia and Rinoa are not connected.
anyone who says "R=U" theory and tries to pretend there's evidence clearly ate lead paint chips
btw, the game already disproves it by having ultimecia be MANY generations in the future.
This video was so good, kudos subscribed and you deserve way more subscribers, do a vid on final fantasy 8 as well on HYNE
Awesome video!
Wow! I love the investigation into this. great job!
I just added a reply myself, but not sure how much traction this video really gets.
but I'll post it here because it further expands on what he says.
"This was very interesting
anyways, as far as the masculinity aspect I wanted to point out...
This is Hyne, not Artemicia (which I also call her because ultimecia is dumb)
Sorceresses get influenced and slowly get taken over by Hyne. The longer the sorceress power remains, the more monstrous they become, simulating Hyne.
Hyne hid himself in women for a long time to avoid being captured. And at the very end of ff8, Hyne emerges from Artemicia's legs... which you can clearly see because Artemicia is hanging upside down asleep.
So Adel and Artemecia are becoming more masculine because...they have a 'man' inside them.
Now, Halicarnassus plays a more direct translation here.. A man who pretends to be a woman to lure people into a false sense of security? No... couldn't be. Halicarnassus and Hyne do the exact same thing.
Also of historical note Halicarnassus is the city that created the first Mausoleum, for The King (which has DIRECT correlation to the unknown king that Sacred and Minotaur guard). This goes into the theories that hold a lot of weight... the king could NOT die because he had the brother's junctioned to him much like sorceresses have a part of hyne junctioned inside them. It requires someone else to take that power to finally see death. Oh, and... we'll get back to the 'unknown' in the next paragraph.
Halicarnassus was ALSO originally known as Zephyria (you know.... the KNIGHT in ff8? Zephyr? The one Laguna played in a movie that Seifer idolizes) The last king before it became Halicarnassus in name also has no record of which king it was. So he is literally the unknown king.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk."
I wish you made more videos.
You clearly have a great knack for it.
Assuming that Halicarnassus is Ultimecia, now we have to figure out how they got time compression powers or it was inherent to them when they went through the inter dimensional rift, coming from FF5 so long ago to FF8’s present.
But besides that, the motivation for them wanting to compress time might still be unclear. Maybe Halicarnassus didn’t want to die after escaping their original universe, thus creating a time loop where they do eventually get defeated, but still end up restarting the cycle by putting their consciousness back into Matron after squall defeats Ultimecia.
it's more accurate to say Halicarnassus and Hyne/Hein are the same. They are the ones with a castle in the sky and hide in another's body (or in the body of a woman)
!
The La Li Lu Le Lo!
4:46 Metal gear vibes
Bro playing us like a damn fiddle…
FIRST time I ever played FFV Halicarnassus stood out for me as a Boss with a "Very elaborated name"... But ALWAYS a minor Boss in a usually ignored game...
NEVER would I thought this boss would be a inspiration for Ultimecia.
This was a really fascinating video. Never would have guessed that a goofy looking rift demon would go on to leave such an impression.
holy shit my dude, i thought i was seeing a 100k+ sub channel until i saw 1:32 and checked it ^^ - amazing quality my dude, thanks! you def. earned your sub buddy.
In Spanish it was translated as "Artemisa"
in the german one too
really dope watch. thanks for this
Artemis is Ulimicia's real name.
Kurses! Impressive, is it not?
Great work Man, I really dig it!
Amazing video!
I loved this video. Kinda sad that he is not uploading more
Holy Carbuncles are a funny one! This fool said counters with an Uno card and I busted out laughing! Oh man thank you for that. God bless.
Someone once wrote into a magizine by the name New Type USA this was a magizine they had in Japan and the USA version was the same thing for America. The Question they asked was based on name she was complaining about characters name being pronouced with an R but when she looked at the writtren it was with and L. She was angry as the name she heard was Rena instead of Lena, They explained that it was correct as they make the Same sound. Not saying your wrong just what they put. The best demonstation i can give you is the name of the fox/cat creature that hangs out with Sango in Inuyasha. The name we hear Sounds like Kilala but watch the closing some time and look at the names. Her name is actually Kirara. I hope this helps someone
Bro this was sick, I like it!
How do you only have 150 something subs, its video is just as good as most of the FF8 theory stuff Ive watched.
Very nice video. Got a new sub.
Very good video and amazing research. +1 sub
As it turns out, Yoshi-P has said that none of the reflections are DIRECTLY the worlds of other FF games. Some FF games are referenced in the history of the Source, and some are referenced in other reflections, but no world is just FF9 or FF7.
You deserve more subscribers!
Exceptional and subbed. I love deep diving bullshit and this was seriously top tier!
Good Job, and good deduction...
well done man
just dropping by to say you should have more suscribers. Your video is entertaining and at the same time I have never seen someone explaining this, even though I love FF8 and I saw a tons of videos on it. Most translator comments always lean into why "..." is used that much.
New suscriber here! Make more FF8 videos!!
Nice video. ☺️ Personally tho, I think Ultimecia's actual name is Mortal Kombat since she likes to use Ks instead of Cs. ☺️
FINISH HIM!!!
Great video ty for this
Wow i learned both a lot about the Japanese Language and Learned about how FF character names are translated. Hope you come back and make more of these. Not only that but how much of a brain dive it took you to find that Ultimecia is a Greek Queen lol.
Ok on Ultimecia. I have the reach to end all reaches. The goddess from Final Fantasy 6 stands on a head. The head looks a lot like a sorceress.
I always thought it looked like Yunalesca's Final Form. My theory is all summons are just monsters/humans in the interdimensional rift. One form, many variants in superposition. The FF6 God'sTriad were most likely just summons as well. Maybe even variants of other FF bosses that reached the IDR trying to destroy their world in their dimension.
So that’s who Ultimecia is. Not Rinoa, not Selfie, not Angelo. But Halicarnassus.
???? uh no. she's Artimecia I, Queen of Halicarnassus...
When you tied it all together with the Greek mythology at the end 🤯
I believe that the masculinity of the sorceresses is due to Hyne’s influence on them. His final plan is to also eradicate all life because he believes it to be worthless.
Adel’s power came the closest to manifest as his true self and why Ultmemicia wants to have multiple sources of power through time; hoping to achieve the same power of Hyne’s original form.
Ultemicia was the original Ultima in FFXVI.
Well done and thoroughly researched as well. Not simply some random bloke spewing fact-less theories. Well done!
Great video fun watch
Eh... the 'shards' in XIV are NOT the other FF worlds. They're each their own unique alternate version of 'Hydaelyn'.
Also, the Fourth Umbral Era is not the Eighth calamity, or otherwise linked to 'the Eighth world', Astral eras are the calms between the calamities. There is no tie between XIV's Helicarnassus and FFVIII, it's just V's Helicarnassus, because it's in the Deltascape, which is the tier dedicated to V.
It's more of a divergent evolution. V's Helicarnassus inspired Ultimecia, and it also inspired the obvious cameo in XIV, but there's no logical thread from VIII to XIV in this case.
I hope as a lore enthusiast you appreciate the correction! 😅
I think everything else is spot on, but it's kinda funny that a misunderstanding of XIV coincidentally led you here.
She must love Mortal Kombat.
Amazing video.
Very cool, gj!
I didnt imagine the lore in FF VIII was that linked to FF V, this was mind blowing !!
Do you think sorceress adel sings Adele songs
Yes.
Ultimecia's real name is Mommy
Interesting tidbit, even I had no idea about the Halicarnassus connection... I knew Ultimecia's name was likely a translation error, similar to Rinoa most likely intended to have been translated to be "Lenore"
Another interesting tidbit I personally discovered with the Artemisia name is it's the name of a plant... What other final boss used time travel as their means of world domination? Garland, also a plant-related name... and bears similarly-shaped horns.
1. I realize I'm commenting on a 3 year old video at the time I'm writing this but fantastic job.
2. Subscribed
3. It's possible that Ultimecia is a portmanteau of "ultimate/último" and "Artemisia" as último/ultimate means last or final and Artemisia being the natural callback to Halicarnassus from FF V. Or I could be full of crap and Nojima/Kitase would have me flogged posing the idea. Who knows? Regardless, great work.
Point 3 really isn't that odd of an idea. The Japanese love their wordplay and it wouldn't surprise me at all if that's why they've kept with Ultimecia despite them also arguing against the whole Aeris name, as Aerith is more faithful to the translations and the meaning of the name. Artemisia is a bit on the nose, which while not weird on their part, still seems like they would blend the names to obscure the callback and leave them as they are, a callback and not the same character or related.
3 is not possible because Artemisia of Halicarnassus is too much influence on the rest of the game.
To shorten this, Halicarnassus is also the first city that had a mausaleum... of the unknown king. Back when the city was called Zephyria (the sorceress knight Zephyr) before the city was changed to Halicarnassus.
Hyne(hein) and Halicarnassus do the same exact thing. Both have castles in the sky (in ff3 and 8 for Hein, and 5 for Halicarnassus) and both hide themselves in the bodies of others (the elder tree for 3, the bodies of sorceresses for 8 and Halicarnasuss took the disguise of a woman.
The connections between these are way too close for it to have been 'ultimate/ultimo'
@@dragames the evidence is compelling but we'll never know for certain until Nojima and/or Kitase comment on the matter. Even then it has been so long that they probably don't remember unless they have developer notes to refer to.
The reason I'm not completely convinced is that the romanization of several character names in the Japanese version of Dissidia: Final Fantasy don't match what the North American release used. Cefca instead of Kefka, Butz instead of Bartz, Tina instead of Terra, and Frioniel instead of Firion are all used in the Japanese version and I get why the chances were made in the NA version but why not use Artemisia instead of Ultimecia in the Japanese version?
@@dtcharo this is a bad argument
They use all the changed american names in the English speaking releases. Bartz is an awful one because in ff5 when it was released in US, it was Bartz and it is once again Bartz in Dissidia. Same for Terra and Firion. They didn't fix anyone's name in the English release from their original names. The only one they ever made that exception for was Aerith because of fandom bs. In the japanese version, her name is still pronounced Arutimicia like it's written in japanese. They don't say ultimicia. they don't say bartz for butz... They use the pronunciations they had in the original japanese releases. Unlike with English, the japanese do not have a problem with pronunciation when it's written out. There's no deviation in accent, strong syllables, or pronunciations of any symbol because it is always said as it is written.
@@dragames you don't need to attempt to educate me on Japanese. It was my minor in college and I passed the level 2 JLPT. That's not to lecture you but more to inform you that I understand the issues with transliteration particularly with Japanese. It's also unnecessary to (incorrectly) try and explain the reason for some of the name changes. I have some knowledge of the development history of these games. What I wrote is a simple statement of fact that obfuscates the subject matter covered in the video. It's not meant to sway opinions but clarify my own personal confusion with the choices made at SqaureEnix.
For those who don't have access to it, when you're at the character select screen on the original Dissidia game on the PSP, for the Japanese version, the romanized spellings for the character names are depicted. For various known and potentially unknown reasons, Golbeza, Butz, Cefca, Tina, etc., are used. They do not use the transliterated names in the NA/Global release of the game for many characters.
Since the game was specifically for a Japanese audience why not use Artemisia instead of Ultimecia? They had no issues with using Frioniel, Aerith, Tina, etc., so why not use Artemisia if that was more in line with the creator/scenario writers' intentions?
Honestly, I'm not sure why hence the statement of fact. It's not an argument in favor of one or the other. Personally, I'm cool with the headcannon. The video makes a compelling case for sure.
I could make a similar (albeit less compelling video) regarding the romanization of the name Guy from FF II when it should be Gai. In Dissidia: Final Fantasy Opera Omnia, the Global version uses Guy instead of Gai. However, Gai being the masculine short for Gaia refers back to a common thread through Final Fantasy when referencing Gaia and Terra. Considering that DFFOO gives Guy an Earth affinity in the game and his backstory gives him a strong tie to the natural world it could be argued that the Global version of DFFOO and most other localizations have incorrectly named him Guy instead of Gai. Gai is the exact Romanji/romanization of the katana for GAI.
At this point, am I working backwards from a conclusion I've drawn or is there more to this? Is what I'm saying possibly true or is it a potential anachronism as many have argued that Ex-Death, originally intended to be Exodus, the incorrectly transliterated name should have been.
It's all speculation until we get an official answer. Enjoy the headcannon aspect of it and no need to be a dick if someone isn't bought in 100%. That's all.
in the german version of this game she is named Artemisia. Ultimicia was never mentioned in the german version of FF 8
Damn, what a nice video
Wow would love of thos channel made more FF videos. This one was amazing and you seem v knowledgeable
I kinda like Artemisia. It's like there's a sad story behind that name but it still strong to pronounce which means the name holder is strong willed.
While Xerxes was overseeing the battle from his throne, which was at the foot of Mount Aigaleo, he observed the incident and he and the others who were present thought that Artemisia had attacked and sunk a Greek ship. One of the men who was next to Xerxes said to him: "Master, see Artemisia, how well she is fighting, and how she sank even now a ship of the enemy" and Xerxes then responded: "My men have become women; and my women, men." None of the crew of the Calyndian ship survived to be able to accuse her otherwise.[38] According to Polyaenus, when Xerxes saw her sink the ship, he said: "O Zeus, surely you have formed women out of man's materials, and men out of woman's.
-From Artimesia Wiki,
Kinda explains where the gender bending came from lol.
Transliteration is also why Tidus is actually "Tide-us" NOT "Teedus"
The gender ambiguity is also backed up in lore by the fact the sorceresses all inherit the power from the Great Hyne, a male god (and a reference to Hein from FFIII).
Good video
O.O thx for the explanation
Damn good video
Well that was awesome.
Misery loves company though. Ultimecia would have seen used and seen with Rinoa to try making her become a likeness of herself...
I have to disagree. As someone who has done translation and fluent in English and Japanese. The Japanese words for Artemisia based on the one referenced is アルテミシア ARUTEMISIA which is used in botany and for the Artemisia of Caria. The アルティ we see in words like Ultimate. Also the word Artemis would be アルテミスwhich is related to Artemisia.
Rather, I think they were making a play on Artemisia but using the different katakana to refer to Ultimate or another spelling or spin on the way you say it.
Shes called that because she casts ultima....
did ne1 else notice ra re ru ri ro? la le lu li lo? the patriots? metal gear solid? lol
This is like how Square originally called Marilith "Kari", which supposed to be the Hundi Goddess Kali.
or how Shiva was supposed to be Ziva and now think she was based off a hindu God and not a slavic goddess
@@dragames The thing is, though. Shiva is supposed to be the Hindu god when he was incarnated as a woman in an icy mountain. That's why Shiva is often seen with a bindi or other articles inspired by Hindu women's apparel.
@@RCDeschene You're speaking about the later incarnations after the mistranslation coming up. Originally Shiva such as in her ff 3, 4, 5, and 6 are modeled after the slavic dance dress and the thing that drapes behind their back. 7 was the first to acknowledge the hindu aesthetic to mix in, modeling her after Kali who was a blue skinned goddess and not Shiva
What most people because of the mistranslation don't know is they never looked up Ziva's mythology. While she is known as the mother goddess (of nature and rebirth) but she was within the slavic's tongue actually called the Goddess of living water and in winter her body was frozen until the spring where she'd break free and use the icy waters to then bring about rebirth.
@@dragames I see. Makes sense.
Real name of Ultimecia is Linoa..
Ultimecia’s real name is Rinoa.
Btw, Aerith’s real name is Aeris. Fight me.
The devs of FF14 have stated that the reflections are not the other games worlds. I wish that theory would just die.
GG to our Italian translators.
There was , there was a sequel to 300?
I thought “Ti” in japanese was “chi.” Ta Chi Tsu Te To because the vowels in Japanese are a i u e o. It’s alternates are da dzi dzu de do.
Never seen Te + i makes Ti. I know sha is shi and ya, mya is mi and ya and so on.
Love the video. It was very insightful and it made some interesting. connections
What game is that where Ultimecia is fighting Squall like
That?
Dissidia
dude you okay? i always find these channels that have left uploading videos so long ago =(
So then the magic spell is Artima and the monster is Artima Weapon?