American Musclecar Evolution - How Chevrolet Made It To The Top And Stayed There
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- čas přidán 28. 11. 2022
- During the early days of the first Musclecar era, Chryslers we're known for exceptional engineering, strong engines and killer transmissions, but then as today, they were also known to be expensive and trouble prone, so most street car enthusiasts went Chevy, and the aftermarket followed right along.
Here's the main reason Mopars gave up that early ground to the Bow Tie crowd and why Chevy stays on top to this day.
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I think the Diplomat was an M body, and it still used torsion bars. They were L shaped and the harmonic balancer was just a cvnthair away from touching.
Yes, I misspoke in the video. The F Body went to front mounted transverse T bars. What I was trying to convey was that they were no longer an issue under the car.
@@UncleTonysGarage i got what you meant. Just letting you know I'm paying attention, so watch your step next time mister.
@@UncleTonysGarage Love the way the F bodies handled. Pretty darn good for such an old technology
i had an '83 Cordoba for a bit. and it was a J platform with the horizontal torsion bars. I think all The F, M, J bodies had the same set-up. the Cordoba was a b-body with the longitudinal torsion bars until '79.
Opel also had a model called Diplomat with chevy 327 in it
So true. I’m a Ford guy and you are so right. The other thing is Chevy kept the same bell housing patterns for every engine from 55 on regardless of 6, sb,bb and on. Ford and Mopar had different bell housings making it more different/ expensive to change to a later engine.
And trust me we thank the Chevy engineers for that. It allowed me to install a 4l80e behind a 555 BBC in my 70 Nova😉
Now the ls it's like they set them selves up for selling gm performance parts by making all us gm guys lives so easy the bell housing differences are a huge reason I believe some beginning fomco or Mopar guys may have jumped ship
Chevy 6.2 / 6.5 diesels also have the same pattern.
As a GM guy I can confirm all you said.
Yeah, I’m a Ford guy too and I loved drag racing but with the same problems stated.
As a Ford guy, I'm most jealous of Chevys Bellhousings and always figured that was one the biggest reasons they were so successful in the hotrod world.
Come on man you know 90% of all Fox body's have a GM engine in there😏. I'm just giving you a hard time man. We all like what we like. The first car I worked on as a child (around 8yrs old) was a Ford and the second was a 1962 Impala and after working on the Impala I knew what I liked. I can tell you I absolutely do not like to work on any Fords 1996 and newer but I have to as I turn wrenches for my day job. Just thought I'd share my story have a good night man.
@@eric63377 I always assumed those were actually Chevy guys who wanted something more lightweight than their GM offerings.
I definitely have no love for modern Ford (excluding the Godzilla) modular engines. They definitely feel like an engine of more cons than pros.
I think it was mostly just sheer volume. There was just a helluva lot more Chevies around than Fords or Mopars. This is one of the reasons I like Mopar, it's something different from what most everyone else has. That said, I like the 55-57 Chevies, and the early Mustangs are pretty cool.
@@clembob8004 Actually ford outsold chev in 1957...but your point is valid, damn chebbys everywhere! lol!
It is nice to be able to use a modern overdrive trans on an old big bock chevy.
Tony, as a lifelong Chrysler big block lover this all makes so much sense. It used to frustrate the heck out of me to see how much cheaper it was for others to build a Chevy and have access to everything in the aftermarket goodies. I had two 440s that flat out kicked butt with just about anything on the street, but at a huge cost compared to my Chevy buddies. This explains why. At 74 years old you answered my lifelong question. Thanks for sharing you vast experience and making it interesting.
Chrysler engine flaw, UT says, "let's examine the steering and suspension!" You are like a doctoral student defending a dissertation. Your insights are powerful and come with much merit, plus, your knowledge is universal and can be applied to most things. As always, thank you for sharing with us!
I agree never a snore fest with Tony very precise imput. I've learned a lot from his channel on carbs and points distributors ima 22 year old mechanic trying to learn more about my passion of fire breathing muscle cars
Also you didn't need to change a K member in a Chevrolet to go from straight 6 to small block and even to big block back then. They all shared transmissions and most shared motor mounts and evan radiator hoses.
Exactly.
I recently did a big block to small block swap on a 73 b-body and my choices were a different k-member or Schumacher for custom conversion engine mounts. I ended up making my own mounts but this is a perfect example of what the average guy would have been up against 50 years ago.
@@ColdSmokes you swapped a small block in place of a big block? Must have had to do with economics...?
@@williamstamper442
Sure did, I built a hot small block that is way quicker and more fun to drive than the smogged 440 that was in it..150 lbs less weight on the front end too..and it happens to get 40% better mileage than the big block 13-14 vs. 9-10 so win win I guess.
@@ColdSmokes these days, a stroker 360 isn't as hard to do as the old days of seeking out an early 360 to bore it out to 340 pistons for 380 cid. you can do 400+cid and with aluminum heads the weight difference makes up for hp. plus better handling and stopping. and if you know how to work the OEM fuel injection found in junkyards....
@@williamstamper442 🤪🤪 mod the 440
This is awesome. I was a skeptic as you got going but you really made some great points and I’m glad you acknowledged the 10 year head start GM had with the Tri-fives. I build mostly fords and Chevy’s and am always annoyed by how ford changed things on the engine to accommodate the engine bay. Chevy designed their engine bays to accommodate the engine. So you end up with 50 years of parts compatibility on the Chevy side and you have to be within a few years and exact models on the ford side of tracking down accessories. Great video!!
I am a Chevy guy from August 1969 till today. My friends and I always thought of the Mopar guy's as different and all this time it was the oil pans, I'll be danged. Good video, thanks.
Hi Mike, My brother and I grew up as Mopar guys and his friends were all Chevy and Ford lads, and they both thought of as different, BUT we all loads of fun working on our wrecks. I moved on to SAABs now (talk about wrecks) but i still have a great love of those days, Mopars, Chevy & Fords all welcome.
@@patrickmonaghan8555 yes WE did, the best part was $0.35 a gallon real high octane gas! In addition, maybe a little street racing, just maybe.
Great video. Chevy also had unbelievable interchangeability of parts. You could swap the heads etc from any small block. Over the counter parts at the dealer. A big block fit nicely in a tri-5. Bell housing bolt patterns all matched. Chevy had it going on for the diy folks.
Big block did not fit headers hit steering box
@@rustedratchetgarage6788 There was a fix I just don’t remember. Back in the day not everyone ran headers. Here east coast of Nc they rusted out too quick
All big block Mopar heads swap between the two deck heights. You need to have the right intake manifold.
And don't forget the SBC had the holes for motor mounts that they started with back in '55.
Chevy was cheap and made for those with no brains.
This is the kinda content I love about this channel, I appreciate what yall do, Uncle Tony and Uncle Kathy.
Right? Great content.
Not many creators making content like this. Most of what we see is "look what I just bought and did with money."
Why can’t uncle Kathy be Auntie Kathy ?
@@stujones3566 I ❤️ my mustang 🐎
Fun to drive.
Lol that’s funny my dad has a gay sister and albeit in my teens I’d call her uncle Pam had the stature of an all American defensive end lol but she’s the best and love her
@@konaboss83 ole strong ass uncle pam lol
Very interesting how 1 or 2 relatively minor engineering decisions led to a massive loss of market share for Chrysler. Great presentation Tony!
i noticed this problematic thing years ago 2015
11 or 12... Ya missed a digit!
As a long time Mopar guy I had never considered this!
A very well thought out point of view.
Another point is Chevrolet anything is so very interchangeable, just easier to build a Chevy on a budget and that's how just about everyone starts out.
What is the winter Ford engine ?
Just another reason to love Uncle Tony's. A deep down Mopar fan telling it like it is.
That and GM didnt change their bellhousing bolt pattern every new block casting. Love my MOPAR but that modular aspect Chevy has is respectable.
At 16 I could not figure out why I spun bearings in my 67 Fairlane. It was a bored 390, cam, headers and good heads. Was a brand new bottom end with perfect clearances. Guess it accelerated fast enough to do the oil starvation thing.
I used a 8-10 quart oil pan for my small block 273 in a '65 Valiant back in the '70's. I believe it was made by Milodon and had the hole/tunnel for the steering link. Just need to add the extended oil pick-up and it was good to go.
Tony you're the best teacher. Now I better understand why my old friends & relatives use to give so much Grefe about my beloved Fords & Chryslers.
My pops told me that Smokey Yunick was once quoted as saying that if he could do it all again, he'd have gone with MOPAR.
Having seen his awesome reverse flow cooling solution on a SBC, I'd love to see his solution to Chrysler's front sump problem. Hell, maybe he did come up with something.
The 440 magnum was very well designed for a street performance engine. All I ever did was put on a stock HEMI 6 quart oil pan with the stock 440 pickup--the 440 pickup was the same depth as the hemi pickup. And a stock volume pump with a black oil pressure spring. All a high volume oil pump did was use horsepower to turn it. When I put headers, a Torker, a Crower 280 degree cam and a Holley 750 double pumper on one of my 440s, it made more power but it moved the power band up slightly so the car was much less "driveable" with a 4 speed.
You are one of THE smartest thinking guys around. I'm 68 and have been around this game since I was old enough to ask my late Dad "why are you doing that to that thing Dad?" He too was a very smart fella. Thankyou for a top video, Tony.
UT the depth of your knowledge in these cars is nothing short of amazing. Thanks for letting it out of your head.
Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Build a few Mopars and you’ll get it.
I used to run big block mopars on the streets and I lost a few of them to spun bearings. I had pan baffles in them too.
Great explanation. As an old guy who grew up in the heyday of muscle cars (1960's) I never thought about the differences in the oil pans/pickups.
Absolutely brilliant, I never even considered those points.
As an Aussie Ford man, we had completely different issues, no shitty Windsors over here until the super smog 5.0 in the 90’s; thankfully we cast our own Clevelands at the Geelong plant, the few Windsor short blocks we did have were fitted with Cleveland heads to make our fabulous BOSS series.
But, the old saying of, if you want to rev it, you gotta Chev it! Held true because their go fast parts were so cheap, you could build a Chev for $1 a rev.
BOSS Fords were around $1.50 per rev, and poor old Mopar was more than double that, if you could even find a builder that wanted to take it on given their proclivity to spit bearings at passers by.
Agreed. I remember as a kid when building model cars, I always wondered why the mopar kits always had the oil pan on backwards. Even then it didn't make sense to me.
Once the concept you presented took place, it was all over. To this day, when you see an article or an ad about a great part you know you can get it for your Chevy. If they by some chance make it for a Mopar or Ford it is usually twice the price of the Chevy version. As a teenage hot rodder in the 80's, that was all it took to make me a Chevy guy. I still love those Mopars though!
Love the unblinkered and honest approach of this channel. I love mopars but they have their flaws, all cars do.
Chevy also had the advantage of compatibility. You could change out a 350, 327, 307, or 283 with little to no problem.
With Fords I always ran into problems if it wasn’t an exact replacement. Never meddle with Mopar to much.
You are dreaming. Put an alternator on an engine with generator heads (they also need different valve covers) or switch from a long to short water pump and change all your pullies, then find the right starter and shim it up. Make sure you have the right flex plate. I once believed the chevy myth.
@@MaxNafeHorsemanship But somehow we always managed to figure it out pretty easily
@@joew8440 Any make is easy if it is what you know best.
@@MaxNafeHorsemanship nobody said that every single part was interchangeable. Always one person that has to crap on the parade
And being cheap.
A lot of wisdom in this video, Tony... As a long-time Mopar fan and owner, I always hated having to work around the steering and tight K-members. However those front sumps were wonderful for road racing, where frequent hard braking in a Chevy would cause the same problem for them. The A-bodies like Valiants and Barracudas did well in SCCA events. And yes, the Ford engine compartments were a complete nightmare. I'm not sure what they were thinking back then...
Good Show, Tony. I lost an excellent 340 partially due to the oil sump placement in 1973. I had an awesome Orange 340 Duster 4 speed that went like crazy. I made the mistake of letting a hobby mechanic freshen up the valves, although it burned no oil and the compression was 150 all across. He threw the valves in a pile and went to work. When I put the heads back on it sucked oil through the guides at the rate of one quart every 200 miles. I was Not happy. On holidays within a few days we went camping. My wife was driving up a steep hill to a campsite in Nevada and she said it seems like we're losing power. I quickly leaned over and saw the oil pressure gauge at zero, so we coasted back down the hill where I added 2 quarts. Thankfully the oil pressure came back but at a reduced level. We drove that tough little fighter all the way back to the Cold Lake, Alberta Air Force Base, 1400 miles away, where I was an aircraft tech. No bearings were turned but they were pretty well burned out. Cost me lots for a full rebuild but it went better than ever until some envious sob poured sand into the oil filler cap. That finished it for good, poor girl. I still admire that tough and feisty 340! It was a real marvel of Chrysler engineering. God Bless you and God Bless America. RS, Maj Ret, Alberta, Canada.
What I love about the Small Block Chevy - Is that it was the perfect working man's engine, because it was designed in a no-frills application to go in everything from secretary cars to trucks and everything in between and there were thinking it would get them through the next 10 - 15 years to the next redesign and it's against ALL FRIGGIN ODDS that it's basically lasted until today!!
its still going strong and i still dont care about doing an LS swap
NO FRILLS = K.I.S.S.
I replaced my small block that was in my Vette with the proper big block. I researched the small block I'd numbers and found out it was for a combine application. Imagine that.
@@dannelson2171 LOl, are you sure it wasnt a warranty replacement block by any chance? maybe they just used what they had sitting around at the factory at the time lol
As a lifelong Chevy guy, this was a fascinating video. I have always cited other good things about Chevy's design but did not consider this one. Great Video!
Someone who answers questions that nobody is asking.... that's a philosopher!! LOL. Great video and thank you for sharing. 👍
Tony, I absolutely love these historical perspective videos. Keep it up.
Uncle tony likes a challenge, that’s why he likes mopars
I remember as a kid ia asked an old timer about why all the old streetrods used chevy engines. It was exactly as you say, the rear sump oil pan. I work with friends for years on circle track cars and they were doe hard blue oval fans. All of the engines were converted to rear sump but were mounded further rearward than stock so steering clearance wasnt an issue.
You nailed it , long time ago hot rod guys found out it was easier to put a SBC in a ford than to put a later ford into a ford. all about the oil pan location. Another great episode
Great video Tony couldn’t have said it better myself. Also, Chevys interchange ability for over 60 years is over the top.
Yes, also, the small Chevy V-8 breathed well, ran well, and sounded really good when it was screaming. The sound it made was a major (overlooked) factor in its popularity.
Thanks. I am a Chevy guy and I really learned something. Keep up the good work.
The Chrysler oiling problems make total sense to me now Tony, thanks
I've worked on many many many different manufacturers vehicles over the years... I've been hot rodding my whole life. GM's vehicles in my experience and opinion have always been much easier to work on and modify. Even now, I rebuilt the top end on my Dad's 2004 f150 and did a complete timing set on its 5.4L and it was a pain in the rear. I have completely built multiple 2003 - 2010 GM vehicles and they have all been relatively easy to work on and modify. Even the ends of the bolts on GM cars and trucks are rounded to make them easier to start. Not to mention the aftermarket and even factory parts availability.
Thanks for that, Uncle Tony. The only car I hot-rodded was my first car, a 1970 340 Dart Swinger. The headers were definitely a bear to put in. All I did to it was headers, Edelbrock LD-340 intake and a 750 cfm AFB. Had I put a hot cam, low rear gears, and slicks on it, I might have had problems with the front sump. But I still beat a lot of Camaros and Mustangs. I especially enjoyed your explanation of why the first Mopar funny cars had the front wheels extended so far forward. Genius! I have read stories about the early funny cars since the mid 70's. No one else ever explained it as a way to move the sump. They always said it was to extend the wheelbase so as to try to minimize the wheelies. You're always a treasure of information. Thanks!
Plus, as you mentioned before, in the junkyard, that the ford's also had the front suspension springs on top of the upper control arms, which limited the exhaust manifold clearances.
If I am correct, Ferd only had the springs on top of the upper control arm for a few years. (I own one and hate it) Used in many cars in the early/mid 60s and the all squeaked like crazy. Super hard to check your ball joints. Bad idea. I know from experience.
@@MaxNafeHorsemanship from about 62 to 73, i think. then Mustang II went with the new design used on street rods and the Fox went with MacPherson struts.
Finally done a video for us Chevy guys, just kidding love your stuff man I really appreciate the time, effort and work y'all put into your content, you and Kathy are awesome people
Absolutely love videos like this that take you on an engineering journey and explain why things are how they are. And who else than Uncle Tony delivers? Thank you good sir for sharing your knowledge on everything Mopar (and car engineering in general)!
When you started I could see that huge steering box in my mind before it was mentioned. Such a good presentation. When a man can discuss honestly the faults of his favorite brand you will get a lesson. Thank you!
This is what I am talking about!! I could have some beers and talk to guys like uncle Tony all day! So much knowledge and experience in old time hot rodding. I love this stuff!
The shaft mounted rockers are definitely *not* a benefit in most applications. You had a video where you yourself describe the tuning issues you have with shaft mounted rockers. I believe it's called "The Engine Tuning Issue You Didn't Know You Had". So you get the higher RPM valve train capability but then it's killed by the issues you describe in that video with valvetrain geometry on decked heads/block. Chevy doesn't have that issue and they can spin plenty high.
Pontiac heritage.
It baffles me how even given the opportunity (adjustable rockers), people still can't get their hydraulic lifters set up correctly.
Big lift and heavy springs are hard on any set up. That's why Chevrolet high end after market lifters are individually shaft mounted.
@@MichiganRay Rocker arms, but yes I came here to say this. FE motors always had a problem with rocker shafts breaking off at the ends because they were unsupported from the factory, and high valve spring pressure would snap the shaft. Nowadays aftermarket rocker shaft assemblies have the end mount surrounding the shaft and it cures that problem.
shaft rockers are the best what the hell you taking about
Thanks for explaining this. I had a friend with a 66 Satellite with a 440 and a heavy foot and he kept spinning bearings. I also had a 383 that did the same thing.
The hot Chrysler big blocks that I was seeing back in the 60's (my time) were not reliable and as you pointed out, it was almost always a bottom end bearing. And you could take the water pump off a 65 Chevy dump truck at the salvage yard & put it on your 55 283 with minor heater hose routing.
I really like your analysis here. Good information I didn't know as a GM guy. I work on modern Mopars professionally but never worked on their old stuff
You’re right. I’m a GM guy, cause a Camaro was my first car. I’ve built a couple of Ford engines, and thought that they could make a bunch of power. I did notice that the oiling system needed a bunch of improvements, but the basics of the block and heads, had a bunch of potential. I haven’t worked on any Chrysler engines, but I understand how potent they can be. Now that I’ve seen your video, I can clearly see the shortcomings of the engine to chassis design. I thought it was pretty interesting
I can't tell you how many of those "K" frames I replaced after they were damaged in accidents. You just couldn't straighten them like a "normal" car frame at the time. They were too strong and had complex geometry, plus it took a real jolt to bend them. Insurance adjusters hated them because you couldn't fix them on the cheap but in 99% of the cases you had to replace the K frame with a new one. Got to the point I could single handedly change one in less than 5 hours as I recall. Brought the vehicle in first thing in the morning and by lunch it was being buttoned up. Still needed a front end alignment & minor torsion bar adjustment but easy peasy. The oil pan situation made it a terrible street rod setup but for frame repairs it was the cat's meow! My only complaint with them was rusty alignment cams and the ridiculous over/under (inner/outer) cam set up in the aprons. Ohhh ... dem was da days!!!
YOU, JUST BLEW MY MIND!!!! I have been a Mopar guy all my life. I heard stories of spun bearings, but nobody I knew, nor did I ever spin one And all of my family had hi performance Mopar's. but none of us had slicks, and I was the only one to have a decent set of gears and a posi. but, I had an 8 quart Milodon oil pan in my 73 Charger.
Yup-rear sump let the SB Chevy replace all those flatheads. Then we stepped up to 55-57s. It became generational. Interchangeability was so convenient, easy. Let a lot of shade-tree boys look like mechanical geniuses. Great info on the rear steer. I love Chevys but have always had a ton of respect for Mopar engines. Well-done video.
Chevys are swap friendly too. Same bell housing for 6, small block, big block v8s. Chrysler requires separate trans for each engine family.
Even UT loves GMs deep down inside that cold Chrysler heart ❤️
Sounds like a Hank Williams song
@William Stamper yeah it does lol 😆
😂
Toni, this is why I love watching your stuff. Thanks for being a teacher.
When I was a younger man and started messing with cars in the 70's I went with Chevy and Pontiac because it just seemed simpler to work on, modify and make power, add to that the fact that it also cost less, seemed like an easy decision. Most of my friends who went with other brands told me while sneering that my prized engines were also in Motor Homes. To which I replied, "exactly."
I don't think they meant it as a compliment.
I have always admired all high performance cars, even new ones still. They all get the heart rate up in a good way.
I almost bought a new Ford truck but am so glad I didn't. The new GMC truck seems so difficult to work on but compared to the new Ford's... our shop mechanic did a new Chevy motor in 3 days but it took him 3 weeks doing a newer Ford 3/4 ton. We're a semi shop that also has to work on pilot trucks so no lift which makes working on the Fords a headache (or so they say).
The Mopar 440 c.i. can also be found in motor homes/RV's.
I'd go further to add GM frames, all fit any GM motor from straight 6 to big blocks with simple motor mount changes. Always hated working on my buddies Mopars because we had to scrounge salvage yards for the right K Frame. Then all the work swapping K frames.
Very interesting analogy of the evolution of the big 3 comparisons Unc.Although mopar starters always dominate!No shims needed.Great content UTG.Keep it flowing.
Hate to say it, being a Chevy guy myself, but I think Ford starters were far superior. That firewall solenoid was the best idea they ever had.
i have Never Shimmed a chevy starter ,out of hundreds not 1 shim ever
@@rctopfueler2841 Same for me but I have seen new starters come in a box with shims in them just in case.
Shim to 1/8 inch between bendix gear and flywheel
Working on Mopars ever since the early 80's you always experienced a domino effect on changing anything. Even when going from swapping a 318 to 360 required too many changes all the way to replacing the torque converter to eliminate the excessive vibration above 30 mph. Even to this day PCM's are constantly changing requiring other components to make anything work.
Nicely done! You presented a well thought out analysis. Being a MOPAR guy, myself, I was a minority in my home town when it came to hot cars; everyone had a 67-69 small block Camaro. I love MOPAR engineering, but you're right, the aftermarket support is a lot less than for the Chevy small block.
Excellent Tony, and I totally agree. I was in Engineering School in the late 60's and owned a Fabrication/Collision/HotRod shop (small aircraft included) I raced highly modified MoPars with success but used Chevy for street fun. We need major surgery to get good headers on street MoPars. One of my professors called out the similarities of the big MoPar block with Ford and GM too.
Great stuff as always simple things we overlook you just turned on the lights why didn't I think about it that way 😀 Great stuff Tony GODSPEED
I grew up with a Chevy dad - actually, he liked Pontiac as well (yes, I know they're both GM but the power plants weren't necessarily the same lol) - it's obviously understandable that I would be a little partial to Chevy but I do recognize greatness when I see and/or experience it. I like many models across all of the brands but I must say as a career mechanic that my least favorite to work on are Ford! Granted, I am speaking on more modern Fords... Anyhow, I don't currently own any hot rods (can't afford it) but I do own a 2nd gen Ram 4x4 with the 5.2 Magnum and I love it, even though it averages about 9 mpg and the dash is more brittle than candy glass on a Hollywood set 🤣. Okay, I'm done rambling. Awesome presentation, sir.
There's a reason the LS is one of the most swapped engines today. Great explaining details!
This type of vid is why I love your channel Tony. Golden info
Worked on cars for years and NEVER considered windage or understood it so much, thanks Tony.
Great video, lots of good infro, I agree, people in the late 60s were putting big blocks in tri- five cars with little or no trouble, I have a 454 in my 57 and love it thanks.
I love this guy every time I see one of his videos I learn something new he breaks down technical things to basic common sense and I have been working on cars for almost 40 years there is always more to learn even with a 50 year old engine
AH-HA! I knew there was something about the rear sump on a Chevy engine but I couldn't put my finger on it. I understood engine compartment layout was easier with a rear sump, but I hadn't thought of oil pickup during acceleration. Thank you for helping to put the puzzle pieces together! Great video.
AMC used a rear sump too.
I was always wondering why the bowtie has always been the go-to engine for performance mods; what was SO different about the Fords & Chryslers that they weren't seeing the same popularity? This video has certainly shed some light on the answer to that question; it has also made me wonder about what has been learned by Ford & Chrysler since that time and those lessons have been applied. Good video.
Chevy showed us what they learned over the decades when they gave us the LS. Chrysler learned too... The magnum series V8's (the 1990's version of the Chrysler LA smallblock) had rear sump oiling systems like Chevy always had. They're damn good engines too.
This was very interesting! To me, it was just that Chevrolet was the best selling, most well known brand - so since so many people owned them, it translated over into racing as well. But, apparently there was more to it than just that.
And cheap.
Fantastic historical segment Tone. That was very educational bro. Good stuff.
THIS!!! This is why I subscribed to UTG. For information such as this video. Thank you Uncle Tony!! 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks Tony, for those of us who lived during those magical 60's and 70's. We kept our fingernails dirty, tried to keep up with the latest car magazines, and loved many a bench racing session in driveways and garages throughout the country. those memories will be with us forever. Keep doing what you do to get this younger generation on board. All three brands are fantastic!
I think keeping the 727 style trans from 59 as an interchangeable bell housing for the aluminum 727 would have been a big move vs having 3 separate castings that locked the transmission to specific engines. Hindsight…
Chevy gets all the love but Mopar built one of the best small block engines ever the 340 even stock there mean little engines and with a bit of work they become monsters!
those are good motors...unless they ran against a ford cleveland ...voted by motor trends best small block muscle car engine of all time ..[ or another major car magazine ] cant remember ...richard holdener wrote and worked for the major magazine who wrote that story
66 350hp 327 nova. Gears and good driver pretty hard to beat. 340 cars were never a worry in one of those
@@justinadams1360 sounds good..but so does the ford boss 351 @ 383ish h.p.
@@justinadams1360 And those Chevy II's had front sump oil pans. Maybe not ideal, but it worked.
Patrick Bedard used to write for Car and Driver back in the 70s. Before that, he was a Mopar engineer. He said they copied the Chevy fuelie heads for the 340.
This is an awesome early automotive history lesson.
This reminds me of one weekend when I was in the Army in ‘71. Two guys swapped engines, a 427 or 454 from a long hood Nova for a 350 from a ‘68 Chevelle. Amazingly the Nova had way more room for the big block than the Chevelle. Take care and keep the interesting stuff flowing.
Very informative video but I think Chevy's bell housing compatibility made a huge difference and should've been mentioned.
you heard it here folks. 11:47 "the tri 5 chevy was the perfect car" and we all know UTG knows everything!
Dan..don't scrub Ur Ears on the door frame leaving the garage tonite. With that said, U do great work. Hope all is well with You and Yours. 🇨🇦
Excellent video!.Love my BB 56 Chev. 2 dr. sedan. Soft spot for Mopar though, first car was a 69 FB Barracuda Formula S 340 4sp. Fellow Canadian, love your channel eh!!!!
As a mechanic of 30 years myself i still get excited when i learn a new tip or some new information
I owned a 1964 Sport Fury in the mid 60s while in the AF. It had the 383,modded with 2 4bbl carbs, Crane cam w solid lifters, headers & 4.30 posi. i flogged that car for two solid years before going to Alaska. I had a close call similar to the problem you describe with a rod bearing that started tap, tap ,tapping. Upon teardown I found the babbit a bit wiped on one rod bearing. The crank was OK. So, my solution was to section the oil pan and make it deeper I also fabricated a baffle at the rear of the pan sump. My oil starvation problem went away. Of course, that low hanging sump was vulnerable . I really enjoy watching your vids on the 383 it's a bit nostalgic for me. Now the trick is how to convince the missus I should build a 383 just for the "fun of it". Then my task will be to talk my way into getting an appropriate
a Mopar body to put it in.
I remember drag racing a hemi in the 80's and the old guy that helped me build the car was obsessed with the oil pan and engine compartment. He reconfigured the whole thing. He never said why but the car lasted pass after pass with no issues. I asked him one time shouldn't we spend more time on the rest of the engine and his response was that it was already built to do the job we just need to make sure it comes to work every day.
Ford Windsors also suffered from no good flowing heads until around 1990 (Probably for the same reasons Tony said for Chrysler)
Today, there are options that make it great, but back in the day people had to make Clevors (Cleveland head on Windsor block) in order to get a reasonable head on it.
Just another maddening example of why Fords have never been the engines of choice. The 351W has massive crankshaft journals and pretty good main webbing, yet they put shit heads on them. They have nice long rods too. Meanwhile, while the Cleveland does have a pretty decent bottom end, I still prefer the Windsor (obviously a lot of Ford guys do too) so they put the REALLY good flowing Cleveland heads on what I think is the better bottom end. But that's not even the point here... Why couldn't Ford have just done that from the beginning? The DID do it with the Boss 302, so why design an entirely different engine when they could have just designed good heads for the good engine they already had? I'll never understand the Ford engineers from that era.
Thanks for the education, had no idea about the oiling problem. I started driving in 1976, I thought the sound of the starter made them sound cheap. And they rusted so fast in the mid 70's. But GM did too.
Near enough is good enough, wear the motto of the big 3 back in the day.
Great video! I definitely learned something, and you expanded my perspective on car design overall.
Dang, I never thought about this. My Dad always kept a Dodge in the garage for circle track and a Chevy for the straight line. I always wondered why.
Good explanation Tony. As usual. I like 351 Ford Windsors. Same thing.
Thanks, Tony. I never knew how much suspension choices affected engine architecture limitations. I do recall as a young fella reading hot rod magazine, a die hard mopar guy showed off his dry-sump oiling system. I had to go look up what that was, but the guy never stated why he did that. It was presented as "that's what race cars use" but never why the stock system had an issue.
Interchangeability of parts across decades making parts easy to find everywhere and affordable to the regular guy on a budget . Aftermarket support helped tremendously. Same bellhousing pattern was retained the entire production run..carried over even to today. The real reason the LS is popular. You can bolt a TH350 transmission from 50 years ago on one if you want.
That's really neat, not something I would have ever thought about but it makes complete sense. Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
Very informative, easy to see with the engine on the stand, thank you very much Tony!
Im an AMC guy myself and other day I saw that one old commercial here in youtube from Chrysler and there was a comparison between Valiant And Rambler American, it was fun and all but what really got me giggles was that when it was time to compare the front suspensions "In out Valiant its got the torsion bars meanwhile American still got those old coil springs.." That line totally got me LOL
One of your best videos ever, Tony!
Completely agree I prefer Chrysler but is hard to beat having gobs of room, cheap parts and my favorite part about Chevys is the universal bell housing. Right now summit has a set of 8 summit brand hyper 4.020 pistons on sale for $130
I love all of the big four American V8's but I always liked the five head bolts per cylinder in the small block chevy.
Big block mopar also has 5 bolts per cylinder
There was a machine shop in Macomb County that made bank in the 80's by adding a steel box to the Ford oil pan to increase sump volume and surface area. I know two of my friends who added these to their daily drag drivers.
Makes so much sense, it's crazy. Thanks for the lesson, Tony. Fantastic vid.