Using ADVANCED TACTICS to WIN in Total War: WARHAMMER 3!
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- čas přidán 4. 09. 2024
- #totalwar #warhammer
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I tried out a well known total war formation in Warhammer 3 with multiple factions. Who will come out on top?
This video idea was inspired by @Strat_Gaming
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One thing that wasn't considered was the hp and damage of the frontline units. If the frontline is tanky and can dish out a good amount of damage or reduce a large amount of damage, then it makes a huge difference on the number of kills each army would score. The zeench ranged units behaved like bows, in my opinion, especially with those projectile arcs.
Dude its not abou that its showing the formation
@@alexanderwetherell4779 I believe Rendar is mentioning it because of the ranking at the end of the video, This is a great formation for any faction with range but the way he "ranked" them at the end is highly subjective.
It isn’t a good formation, it’s extremely vulnerable to enemy missile units. Put a unit in from of a elf archer and watch it get shot horizontally vs vertically. I
@@tehanua4383 so you should have said sometimes it's not a good formation.
@@tehanua4383 It's good when you bring hard-hitting artillery like Hellstorms
Empire soldier : "Kill every stinking goblin!"
CZcams subtitles : "Kill every snake government!"
just as good
Based.
Chaos dwarf chevrons with blunderbusses will probably be really good
They do be blunderbussin' fr fr
Petition to canonically name the Chorf chevron formation "The Blunderbussy"
i tried it, but you have to space them out even more than usual, if not then be prepared cuz half of the shots they shoot are gonna hit your front line
@@kaiserbeelzebub4th Yeah, the front line has to be spaced out a lot more and then you need to have the last man on in blunderbus formation to to be lined up with the front line of the enemy clashing with your lines. The friendly fire with the blunderbuses is devastating to your army if it isn't positioned right since the bullets go everywhere and they destroy units very quickly.
@@Lewis-ec5sn does friendly fire damage your own unit
points wise the empire slaps this so much cheaper than everyone else.
True, but the DPS of the handgunners is just abysmal. Without experience it's 17 dps. I prefer stronger, yet more expensive units. That's why I like the TW Millenium Warfare mod, the gun infantry is much more expensive, but stronger. Also when it gets into melee, the back rows still fire, thus de facto increasing the dps the unit goes in "melee".
I can't really see this happening with empire handgunners.
For campaign, the slot efficiency is also not to be neglected, because the armies are limited to 20 units and walking around with multiple armies isn't really viable due to the supply lines and tediousness of moving two armies instead of one.
@@etuanno supply lines isn't really an issue in wh3
@@etuanno also two armies is vastly better than one. You can use ambush tactics to 2v1 stacks.
@@etuanno "abyssimal" lmfao. it just destroys infantry regiment of the line in a whim when combined with greatswords, the only counters are flying units, archers (and of course you don't use this kind of formation when facing archer centric army like elves) and cavalry (assuming you don't have your own cavalry to counter their flanking) and if you're smart enough to wait for them instead of advancing, their artillery is gonna be at a disavantage needing to advance exposing it to your flankers/flying unit, never had a problem with enemy artillery, just use your lord/hero/cavalry to crush em whil they sluggishly advance
PS: you forget they're armor piercing
I do this with like 6 globadiers and 12 slaves.
All I could think about during this video was how much I wanted to cast some giant AOE spell right into the middle of those big, compacted balls of orcs
This was a great video. My main complaint would be the lack of a cost comparison, while the units are the same tier they have significant variance in cost which is an important metric.
That Syreen Physical Damage resist came in handy for this
Vampire Coasts placement ends wildly differently if the attacking enemy had magic attacks, but I really liked this video! I kinda started zoning out and just watched units fire into the blobs. A strange form of meditation I think. Fun watch and subbed :)
Very nice video, as soon as I saw those sireens I knew it was gonna be vcoast. Dwarves did about as well as I expected and tzeentch did worse than I thought they would with warriors with halberds.
Yeah I thought tzeench would have definitely did a bit better than they did but the dwarfs I thought would have held out a bit longer. The sireens formation was so messy but those hand canons do so much damage lol. Thank you for the comment!
@@TotalWarCinematics plus their noticeable rate of fire vs the other gunners
Vampire Coast makes Most of CA's other warhammer kids look like the red-headed stepchild
I like to use this, and the checkerboard formation, when playing as the empire. Though the issue is, as the game progresses and there are more enemy lords and heroes, those units tend to break through your formation and disrupt your gunpowder units, especially when fighting the vampires.
Agreed, that's why i usually reserve 2 greatsword and 2 halberdiers behind in case bats or vargheist came disrupting the gunner.
Id love to see this with ratling gunners 😅
I bet the cheddar-munchers would do very well!
Perhaps, but as much as the guns rock the infantry tends to suck > I say this as a Skaven fan. So it'll probably balance out in some way
@@sonofthebearking3335 I guess that's true, they just don't have any decent front line units that could hold the line
@@sonofthebearking3335 I combat this issue by just not bringing any infantry and bringing more guns :D
@@sonofthebearking3335 Stormvermin easily stand up to other elite infantry of the same price.
Random kislevite when he sees invertibrates: "WHERE ARE YOUR SPINES?"
Great video! I've honestly never thought of using Chevron formations before.
Thank you! I really appreciate the support! Chevron formations are really effective against melee only factions in the campaign, really fun to use with the dwarfs and empire factions :).
@@TotalWarCinematics i will try today ;)
Damn I would have thought the dwarves had it for sure. I guess Vampire Coast's frontline physical resistance helped a ton?
I usually have my cav behind or at flanks. Usually, the enemy might send troops into the gaps to kill my ranged units. That's where they are met with a cav charge...sure it's a bit direct, but the point is to keep them from killing the ranged. Besides, having the cav advance through essentially flanks the enemy troops fighting between the chevrons. And if I pull them back, the ranged units get back to work. All it really needs is heavy infantry, or at least decent infantry reserves
The music is the perfect touch
Can't help but think about the Ogre Leadbelchers and how they would tear into the armored orcs.
Great video!
Cool video! Can’t wait for the next one!
Thank you! I really appreciate your support! :) I'm really enjoying making these types of videos right now, I'm glad to see you liked it!
Kislev surprised me, I thought they would at least be middle of the pack, along with Empire. I guess their leadership came into play, which is one of the main reasons I assume the vampire coast did so well along with being a primarily ranged damage faction.
I also wonder about the effect hybrid infantry has on charges. Would they defend against a charge better if set on melee mode (with melee weapons out), or does it make no difference?
This is a nice formation for most total war games. Sadly in a true fight this will never work in warhammer. Either you have half the roster being able to just walk trough the frontline or youd get hit by magic.
Flying units go straight on missile units. Or some hero go through the gap o missile
05:15 There is just something funny behind the juxtaposition of what is essentially a bunch of undead old hags + drowned pirates gathering in a serene and beautiful countryside whilst one of them commenting about more corpses 😂.
Vampire coast won because syreens, their "holding" unit, are ethereal, meaning they have extra physical resistance and Ork big'uns have no magical attacks. Basically, with syreens as a frontline every faction would perform better.
but have no armor, so then we have to compare each units armour save vs the ethereal phys resistance etc... dont think that was the point of this video.
Ironbreakers and irondrakes would have done the trick!!
Aren't both of those Tier 3?
@@conatus1306 Irondrakes aren't anymore. Ironbreakers are tier....3 or 4? i think. But in this video he also used streltzi which i think are tier 3? and Tzeentch are using pink horrors which obv are more like archers than gun units. So it doesn't matter anyway.
@@shad0wmech irondrakes could done too much damage in this situation
Might be worth considering comparing things like dwarf grudge rakers. Some of the other factions that came close or did better had ranged units that performed similarly to those types of units.
Something to consider from an army point of view for vampire coast: you make a really good tunnel to throw a bloater in
To be fair to the Empire isn't what they brought really cheap? Should have posted force costs next to the final scores for comparison
Nice video dude. I recommend doing more narration - you've got a pretty chill narration style that works for the docu feel.
id love to see this with the chaos dwarves
cool competition, though pink horrors are indirect fire and streltsi are tier 3
I think the front of the chevron needs to be much thicker because when the armies descend on the point of the chevron the small collective of frontal troops at the point take on a large amount of damage and that starts collapsing the front of the chevron because eventually the numbers of the enemy seem to overwhelm the chevron despite the ranged help.
I could be wrong though
Classical music and total war. An unexpected perfect combination
It could just be me but I really think that the only reason that the vampire coast did so well was because you picked ethereal units as the front line and orc big'uns are not known for their magical weapons.
In my opinion pink horrors should be considered as grenadiers rather than rifflemen for these kind of videos, just like the skaven poison wind throwers
Skaven rattling guns definitely deserve a mention 😅
Would love to see this done with the new units of chaos dwarfs, dwarfs, and empire gunners, and trying to get the front line units to be more equal in price.
cant wait for videos featuring the chwarves!
some of the frontline holding unit seemed a bit out of place, the giant blobs probably helped the undead with the awful aim i feel like. crazy they can boost those units further with the proper lords.
I really appreciate how polite the AI to attack the front line first, really honourable of them to stick to the rules of engagement outlined in the Rules of Total War!
tbh since i started playing very much like the ai with stuff like sticking to simple line formations i found the battles more enjoyable , it seems like total war players have this phobia from frontal assaults and attacking in general so they slap in absurd levels of ranged and artillery units to make the ai attack them, people turn infantry factions into ranged factions
skaven warpfire throwers are a t2 direct fire unit. But I suspect their Frontline would collapse very quickly.
1:35 ufff Imagine a comet of casadora, dwellers below or better, a nuke dropped right in the middle of that blob.
I was thinking this video could test that tactic on enemies with Calvary, elites, and monstrous units because in the campaign, the enemies will spam like 5 or 8 of either these
that is a beautiful formation. i will put it to great use as an new addition to my tool kit.
This strat is very good with "line of site" units (Black powder, Rattling guns, etc)
if the unit has arching projectiles, then I would say this is inferior to Checker boarding
now i know the name to my "pointy formation"
I'm curious how Skavens stack up with Rattling guns and/or warpfire throwers, since they're basically tier 2 in that you can upgrade settlement to make them immediately after conquering it with food.
Bro, keep this series alive! Love this content
This is a good foundational test but it lacks playing to a factions key strengths. For example the empire and dwarfs have artillery to carpet bomb the choke point. And that blob was just begging for an infernal gateway/firestorm
The enemy units are larges so that means they are easy targets for guns. You dont need any formation, you can use standard formation. Guns will shoot above friendly units heads.
i would say 2 gunner that fires to the side is not effectively placed. since the AI mostly attack the middle. which is the correct way to breach this un-moving position.
Now compare that to corner camping simple checkerboard formation that takes 10s to setup unlike the chevron one.
Try a stormvermin + deathglobe one :) you would actually kill their whole army probably
Syreens are ethereal so they weren't receiving the full orc smacks, they did quite good.
As someone who has played a ton of chaos dwarf legendary, this chevron isn't close to the best you can make it. The shooters should be in a very skinny long formation facing directly at one of the front lines with a clear shot at it. Here looks like you're asking for FF problems. That also will let you stick more units of gunners into smaller gaps. The chevron is also too pointy. You want the side gunners to be able to shoot all the way through without hitting the tip of your own chevron.
for the cathay test i wouldhave used the jade warriors, as they have higher MD compared to the halberdiers. as some better longevity means they can hold the line more effectivly
You said you wanted only straight fire units but don't the pink horrors arc their shots? I mean kind of defeats the point of the chevron
I am not surprised as the Empire get last place.
My initial assumptions are that dwarves and empire will do the best... with a special mention awarded to wood elves.
let's see if i'm right.
huh, unsurprised to see dwarves do so well. But to see empire at the bottom of the list was surprising to say the least. I suppose in hindsight, empire troops don't have the staying power required for this test and Irl empire play usually relies more on using their mobile heavy cav to hammer the flanks and rear before the infantry folds.
But i guess that's why its so good to actually see these things tested
Iron Drakes (Tier 2): Hold my beer
seems like this mainly came down to the holding power of the frontline. syreens have an advantage since theyre ethereal. the dawi and cathay are pretty much made for this kind of combat so no surprise there. tzeench isnt great without magic and/or swapping troops in and out to regain shields so i think the only reason they did as well as they did is because the horrors arent direct fire weapons. i thought kislev would do better, but im starting to think armored kossars are kinda bad. halberdiers is the worst option you could have picked in this situation so no surprise there.
i wonder what would happen if you exchanged syreens for depth guard and armored kossars for tzar guard.
He clearly specified tier 2.
we could" what if" all day.
that wasn't the point.
@@dangerouslycheezy5429 my point was that i think vampire coast would do worse with depth guard since syreens are ethereal and tzar guards are the only non-hybrid infantry kislev has. also, i will "what if" as much as i want thank you very much.
@@NemoA90 so ethereal is bad but tzeentch having shields is ok ?
@@dangerouslycheezy5429 ethereal reduces damage and syreens have a significantly lower unit count than the comparisons. i think that makes the results be a little off, but i might be wrong. tzeench having shields just gives them a little hp boost unless you cycle them out of combat to regenerate, i dont think it makes a big difference. still, tzeench missile infantry is more comparable to archers than gun infantry so i dont really think then belong in this comparison at all. still, this is all just my opinion which might be wrong and ultimately doesnt matter at all.
I’d love to see more videos for multiplayer tactics, I feel like a human player would shoot the gap easily and eat the back line. Tactics against the AI don’t take brainpower
This is more about how good the frontline units are vampire
Coast performed well because of the front line being ethereal.
Pink Horrors are not direct fire. That is why they did so well...
Should have tested the dwarves with troll hammer torpedoes.
They would have won, hands down.
hey man, great content. I started playing total war games now. do you play shogun 2? could ashigaru matchlocks be used in a similar way?
could have used the lizardmen, temple guards with either skink chameleons or skirmishers since those ranged units behave similar to handgunners
Irondrakes for dawi might be good with this formation
Your video is really nice thank you very much. We want more!!!
Unrealistic size of orc army, but if you add in a single unit both melee and missile war sled and a couple shock cav units, winnable battle for kislev. Even empire.
Cool video, and you have such a relaxing voice
Thank you!
interesting concept and cool ideea for a video. some advice for future videos: please speak a bit louder and clearer in the mic, there are some words that can be barely heard. and some places where the music covers up what you're saying and it's unintelligible
Tzeench guys were shooting in an arc half of the time...
Videos like this make me wish there were less monstrous units in the game.
I tried using halberdier chevron formation against minotaurs and, well, you can imagine how that went.😢
Gotta revisit now with the new DLC
you should add dark elves to the mixup, their Darkshards or shades have armor piercing missiles too just like gunner units
They are archers, not direct fire units.
Skaven with ratlings and dawizharr with blunderbuss would do great I guess.
I'm missing skaven Ratling gunners with Clanrats, but the tier 2 limitation eliminates skaven quality
laughs in mighty corner camp with mages
Please make more of these specifically.
Could you repeat this with chaos dwarf blunderbusses when the DLC drops?
Its not good competition if costs of armies are so much diffrent tbh...
Great stuff my man...thanks
Would’ve loved to see skaven compete in this
Not surprised that Vampire Coast won tbh. That entire faction lives and dies on its gunpowder units while the rest don’t depend as heavily on them. I think Vampire Coats might’ve actually won that battle if it fielded depth Guard with Polearms and deck gunners.
Not to mention Ethereal unit frontline.
my stupid ass troops will surely find a way to get out of the formation to do friendly fire
LOVE the Beethoven music in this 🤗🤗
My face when my enemy doesnt use monsters or magic
I'd think the high elves would be best for this tactic since they're all about defensive spears and archers?
Is this not worth it then since they all lost or were they a lot cheaper than the orc attackers?
This is a shitton of orcs. They were never going to win, but you probably won't see this kind of orc army from the AI. Also yeah, when you take into account that you may have wizards, lords and artillery, this battle starts seeming more winnable. This is just an ultimate stress test to see how well the different factions perform with this tactic.
High Elves can just use normal lines. Archers can shoot over units. This is more for units that need direct LOS to fire i.e. guns, cannons, etc.
I want to see a series out of this please XD
Syreens are a weird pick for the frontlines, for holding they perform worse than mobs
if only orks didn't come with at least 6-7 flanking units per stack
Ranged units would murder this formation, lol. Also those infantry holding the line army equal. Completely changes how many kills ranges units will have time to get. Some flawed testing ;p
doesnt really work when they have a decent ammount of Archers/artillery
if the chaos dwarves were out for this i would say theyd easily be the best
Do Tzeentch again with Flamers rather than Pink Horrors - will be a much more fun experience to see!
Tried it with chaos dwarfs and they shoot their own troops in the back
"my kingdom for a Wind of Death"
I expected Kislev to be MUCH higher. But I suppose they are better at single target destruction with how much AP they can have compared to others.
Also funny how all their infantry is hybrid one, so their "shield wall" units shoot and their "ranged DPS" fight in melee. Granted, it's crappy shooting and crappy fighting, but at least they do not instantly collapse when someone gets to them.
Not to mention when morale breaks, they become unbreakable and normally fight until death. Definitely thought they'd be higher than Cathay especially since the middle line will continue to fire pistols until it's their turn into the green tide meat grinder.
Pink horrors are indirect fire
Leadbelchers are tier 2 right? Been a few months since Ive played but would have liked too see their performance.
I think if all the Ranged units were aimed inwards towards the flanks of the opposing units then they would all get more kills