The Slow Destruction Of Destiny 2’s Least Played Class
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- 1%. 1% of every player in the top teams in the world were titans. 1 freaking %. that is a unprecedentedly low number. This goes far beyond hunters being too good. This goes beyond Titans being Niche, if that were true they would have shared the slice with warlocks, no, This is about Titans being bad. The way top teams see it there is virtually no need for a titan anymore. Titans are obsolete. And I do not believe bungie’s current trajectory to fix prismatic would be the only needed fix. Again, if JUST prismatic titans were bad then surely other titan classes would have been represented. Right? No, I think this is more an issue of titans have a different problem other than sheer power.
The Build used this video: mobalytics.gg/destiny-2/profi...
The Destiny 2 Developers Most Hated Class
The Destiny 2 Titan Problem: Identity Crisis & Class Balance Analysis
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I am hoping to start a larger discussion in the community rather than what I have seen of "Prismatic titan bad". Sharing this with your titan friends and relaying their thoughts would be appreciated. I will try to answer counter-points and such in the comments too.
The build used in this video: mobalytics.gg/destiny-2/profile/b4812149-db6e-4fe9-9d87-67ea36d84854/builds/3ed4f22d-aafb-4a74-9b72-717ef154394d
Wow... I'll be honest, this is pretty damn eye opening. I've been playing Titan since D1 and I've always wondered why whenever I do any activities, I always see Warlocks or Hunters in pretty much anything. I always knew they were a lot better in stuff but... It never made much sense until it was all just laid out.
Man.... This is really disheartening to hear. I'll still play Titan, I'm a Titan main to the end and I doubt I'll ever change. But... This is still kinda depressing to see.
I'm glad someone is talking about this. As a titan main won't lie I jumped ship to hunters. The build options are crazy over there. Whoever put together titans prismatic kit should be fired. We can't use sol invictus, no overshields for our barricades, and as a final slap in the face they gave us hammer of sol instead of burning maul so we cant use pyrogale gauntlets lmao like wtf man. Hunters now are easily the winners and even warlocks can have 3 different buddies up at a single time and have great synergy with the raid exotic and with microcosm. Titans are literally just clinging to consecration slam and drengr lash. Titans we down boys
I only keep a Titan and Warlock profile just to mess around on since I'm a Hunter main. I feel like a big part of the problem is that the 3 classes are sort of broken up into standard RPG styles. Hunter = DPS, Titan = Tank, Warlock = Utility/Support. Hunters get toned down when they get TOO far ahead, but they still get to remain the DPS class, and Warlocks always have a use. Titans never really get a chance to shine as being a real 'tank'.
They don't have a lot to just make them into an unkillable threat, they can't pull aggro, and the bubble/shield are good but they don't offer the same value. Personally, I think the Ward would have been better on Warlocks and Well would have been better on Titans. Ward offers protection and buffs but also boxes you in. The Well keeps you alive and helps keep DPS rolling, which feels more in line with the Titan identity.
I appreciate the conversation. Ive been a solo titan since d1 taken king, and ive never been an excellent player, so titans getting the shaft hurts me as a person so much more than it should. The abilities are supposed to carry you in the game but I cant do anything, no matter how hard i push myself. Legendary lightfall had me so angry i punched myself in the face
I think that Bungie could take more examples from other MMOs and make Titan work more as a tank class. Honestly, I want it to apply to all classes, really. Have Warlocks be the debuffing and healing supports, Hunters be the absolute rawest of damaging glass cannons, and have Titans be the tankiest of bois, able to control the ads and bosses' aggression to them and be able to live through it. That's just my wacky idea though, and it's probably more of a Destiny 3 design change for all the classes.
When there was the prismatic dev insights they described the hunter and warlock in great detail but when it came to titan they basically said “you can throw a grenade to jolt enemies and melee”
Couldn't even name any of the abilities used.
lmao i noticed that too, i remember hearing that for the first time and thinking "wow they arent doing a good job of selling prismatic titan right now"
As prismatic is basically light&Dark abilities with assorted fragments
Popping prismatic Gives a unique grenade of L&D and uptick in recharging rate…
Other than the ‘nade, I don’t see much difference between the three.
@RurouniHiro the point went right over your head.
What is being said is during the bungie vid, multiple devs were seen excitedly talking about Warlock and Hunter and saying THE NAMES of fragments, aspects, melee, etc. Then titan was "use your grenade and strand melee." It's so phoned in and shows how little care and thought is put into Titans as a whole
@@RurouniHirofunctionality. Prismatic warlock with song of flame and the speakers mask is a support build, with song of flame uplifting warlock damage a little. Still waiting for damage comparison between song of flame and strand super but right now song of flame bullies bosses, staggering them near infinitely.
Prismatic hunter is a dps cannon that can actually live to damage phase while being placed on ad clear relatively easily, since the assassins cowl arc hunter kit is built into prismatic hunter.
Prismatic titan….void axes….the absolute worst prismatic grenade of the three (in terms of damage Hunter grenade is the best, in terms of ad clear warlock grenade is the best, titan prismatic nade is the only one I’ve had to immediately follow up with more abilities or bullets to secure the kill on shielded red bars.) prismatic Titan has got almost nothing going for it beyond supreme ad clear with the three melee charges for consecration, mediocre dps despite having access to what is likely the best for dps super for titans (throwing axes by default (no exotic focused on super), I know pyrogales are stronger but they didn’t give you burning maul for prismatic titan which is bull because they gave you marksman Goldie for hunter) survivability is almost shot to hell on prismatic titan because the kit seems to encourage the strand Titan rush in and punch play style and yet gives you no damage resistance but grants overshield and health regen on melee kill, so it comes out more like your playing arc hunter, on a titan, without that much dps or utility to support teammates. Over all this video sums up the issue with Titan currently.
The most frustrating thing Bungie has done to me as a titan is pinning me as the melee identity while making it damn near impossible to actually be within that range without dying by a stomp mechanic.
Or just make it straight impossible to melee. I.E the Witness dps phase
@@Wyrm7774 or the dissent bosses / omens
Bungie: "Titans are the melee class!"
Titans *Excel in melee in low to moderate difficulties
Bungie: "NOT LIKE THAT!!!!"
always the issue in really all games. the AI in a shooter cannot properly handle melee or close range characters.
Their solution? Make being close worthless.
Problem it creates? Negates all close range weapons and Melee classes.
And this comment right here is exactly the reason why even now years later I am still a stronghold main Titan. Boss stomp mechanic bring it on. The only downside is I'm almost stuck using strand because the survivability on prismatic is awful.
> "The best way to play Titan is to play another class."
I don't care who the IRS sends, I am not switching to Warlock or Hunter.
Amen
Agreed
same god
Agreed we will be meta again one day
Amen brother
I love that 70% of the enemies are IN THE FUCKING AIR where I can't punch them
@@2tbsoffun136 I know right and they could still punch you cuz have more options for ranged melees
Code of the Missile. Simply join them in the sky.
@@raider3167 Then fall to your death like in the Oryx fight 😂
My feelings are all over the place as titan, a warlock is defending my class....
Yes sir we gotcha, y'all need some serious help
@@jekkin8972 smooches
Yep, as a titan main, I got no negative feeling for warlocks, they are fine on their own, but hunters... Oh hunters, way over tuned in TFS and 99% guarantee that Bungie will nerf them in some way in a future patch, and I didn't even say that they stole our playstyle by being a better puncher then us
I've had a Hunter defend our Class, too. And he even said we should get Twilight Garrison, and is even the one who brought it up.
@@angelousmortis8041 well, that means that guy is a good hunter, hahaha
The problem is that the game has three classes but not enough team roles to meaningfully distinguish them. Titans compete (and lose) with Warlocks for the role of support/survivability and with Hunters for the role of damage dealer. If tanking was a thing in D2 that could be Titans' niche, but currently there's no way to reliably pull boss aggro, and all three classes can CC.
Never forget when Titans brought up the question several years ago about how being the quote “melee class” wasn’t really an identity. Bungee told us all to play to the power fantasy they envisioned for us. Which was punch things they always phrased it as be powerful, but they have never given us tools to effectively be powerful or have immediately taken them back unless it was melee oriented.
They tell us we're the melee, then neef melee, put enemies out of reach, introduce instakill stomps, etc
@@atomicknoob totally, they want us to be a defensive class or sustained damage class but don’t want us to have any defensive advantages because it always breaks PvP. Every time in D2 that titans have been “broken” it’s always been about some kind of crazy burst damage, and sustained damage is just worse in most cases to burst damage so roaming supers don’t feel fun to play with. so if my defensive abilities aren’t useful and my offensive abilities can’t have high burst damage what am I supposed to bring to the fire team? Don’t worry fireteam the titan will clear adds just as bungie intended. (I’m kidding. Bungie doesn’t have a plan, they have a lot of “good ideas” on a roadmap)
So we’re just ignoring the crazy void melee damage that would 3 tap a number of bosses that didn’t get nerfed for like a year that was still incredibly potent post nerf. Also crazy high thrown hammer melee dps that’s been around since solar 3.0? Obvi nerfed but still strong. Also ignoring the stand melee that was solo two cycling dungeon bosses? Just because you haven’t used the class to it’s full effectiveness doesn’t mean nobody else has.
@@TheSket not exactly the point I was going for but listen I get it understanding what other people are talking about can be hard. And there isn’t like guide that you can watch to fix have a social skill issue. In your language “get gud at words blueberry”
@@Ruggedtoaster excuse me? Did you need to just immediately turn to being rude? You specifically mentioned bungie wanting titan’s power fantasy to be a “punch things” style. Then you said they never gave us the tools to do so. But they have. On several occasions there have been so above and beyond over the top mega dps Titan melee builds on most of the subclasses. Even in pvp you have had titans running around with Knock out and 1 punching you for years. I don’t think anyone can forget the years of abuse of shoulder charge. Like titans have had plenty of very strong and potent melee builds
As a Warlock main who dabbles in Titan: if you ask me, Prismatic Titan should've focus on making the Titan unkillable Bastion, Juggernaut, Sol Invictus, Into the Fray (or Banner of War), Tectonic Harvest. The Titan Prismatic should've been all about stacking these buffs in disgusting ways and I think Prismatic Titan needs a fundamental rework from the ground up.
I suggested to add banner of war to prismatic and guess what I got a few hate comments from braindead hunters and my post got removed a few hours later
@@stevedeniz1well tbh a giant spear is much more suitable to titan rather than hunter. Especially when u need not only strength but also technique.
@@XdestroyverI wanted stasis titan to get a huge ice spear that they can chuck at enemies that can impale a target and freeze everything around it and then do drastically higher shatter damage to the impaled target. Maybe even have it do more damage if the stasis titan melees the lance before it shatters naturally.
As a squishy hunter, I agree 159,000%! Bungie must have forgot that this is an MMOFPS, not just an FPS.
Yup. That’s something I wish I emphasized better in the vid
I've said for years and years that the best part of playing Titan was being both the Unstoppable Force AND the Immovable Object. I haven't had that feeling playing Titan since before Witch Queen.
The way I see it, the Titan core identity boils down to 3 things:
1. Momentum
2. Survivability
3. Area-of-effect
Titans are not a "sit in place behind cover" class, despite having barricade. Titans should be able to run in, overwhelm a group of enemies with a display of explosive power and AoE, then fluidly carry that momentum to the next fight, and the next, and the next. They should be nigh-unstoppable killing machines that are difficult to stop, and harder to kill. Playing a Titan should be an experience where as long as you maintain your MOMENTUM, you should feel unstoppable and unkillable. A Titan's barricade should be a tool for you and your allies to recover whenever your momentum is broken, so you can have a moment of safety to build it back up again.
Simultaneously, Titans should be able to lock down an area and make it completely theirs. Uninvited guests should feel very cautious when entering a Titan's space. Titans are the wall against which the darkness BREAKS, not the sand castle that disintegrates at the first sign of opposition.
Titans ought to be the fortress, the Immovable Object that anchors their allies together and creates a bastion of safety for their team. Titans ought to be the Unstoppable Force, the armored tank that pushes inevitably forward and blows through their enemies' defenses to knock them down, no matter how hard the enemy tries to stop it.
Warlocks are the Storm, the Tsunami, the Supernova, the Elder Gods, and the inevitability of entropy. Fighting them should make you feel small and powerless before a destructive phenomenon beyond your comprehension or ability to control. You can't fight them. Nothing you do will have any effect. Fighting a Warlock should feel like shooting a gun at a thundercloud or swinging a sword at the wind. Meaningless.
Hunters are, well, Hunters. You can try and fight them all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that they are the Hunters and you are their prey. You can try to run away from them, but doing so would mean falling right into their trap. You can try and fight them head-on but they know exactly how you fight and will create and exploit weaknesses that you didn't even know were there. They're faster and more agile than you, smarter than you, and deadlier than you. You exist at their mercy. Hunters can take down any foe, because they know exactly where to hit to make it REALLY count, and have the firepower to back it up. Fighting a Hunter should feel like being backed into a corner with nowhere to run or hide, and every time you try to move or lash out, you only tangle yourself further into their trap and cut yourself on their thorns. Despite knowing you're being hunted and doing your best to survive, you never saw the strike coming that finally ended your life.
Titans are the doomguy, the hungry dragons, the charging bull, the avalanche, the landslide, the meteor, and the roaring fire. Once they get going, they keep going, building momentum as they go and wrecking and consuming everything in their path. You can put up obstacles in their way, but they are either going to knock them down or just rush past as if your attempts to stop them weren't even there. You can definitely fight back, push back, try to stop them, or try and prevent them from building their momentum to begin with, but in so doing, you will find yourself unable to inflict lasting harm, and unable to keep them down forever, only delaying the inevitable. They have the resilience to take whatever attacks you can throw at them, and chances are, your attacks are just going to set them off on their path of destruction anyway. They adapt quickly to your countermeasures, and break out of any containment. Fighting a Titan should feel like trying to break down a volcanic mountain, or deflect a planet-ending meteor. You can certainly deal damage, to the mountain, but it won't change much, and you're just as likely to set off a landslide or eruption. You can, with extraordinary effort, deflect a meteor if you see it coming early enough, but it's just going to pass by, then swing around and come at you again for round 2. You can't stop them, you can't kill them, and you can't break them down in any meaningful way. Either move out of their way, or be consumed and turned into rubble. You can, in theory, wear them away little by little until they finally give in, but by the time you succeed, the damage is already done, and they sit atop of mountain of bodies so large, the effort you spent trying to kill them hurt yourself far more than it did them.
Yes, I'm a Titan, yes, I like punching things. But that was always only ever a fraction of what made me enjoy the class. Punching things is a means to an end, a tool in my belt that I can always rely on in a pinch. But it is not at all my defining characteristic. That's not what I miss about playing a Titan.
I miss that feeling of momentum and explosive power. I miss the ability to move fluidly from gunfight to gunfight, consuming all in my path and using it to fuel my fire. I miss taking on entire armies, where the enemy gives it everything they have, only to break against my shield and fall to my sword, again and again and again until there are no more enemies left to fight. I miss that feeling of being the rock to keep my team steady, and the shield behind which my friends duck for cover.
Please Bungie, for the love of the Traveler, make Titans the unstoppable armored warriors that they used to be. Give us more explosions and more momentum. I fricking love this game, and it sucks when my favorite class has its kit taken away, nerfed, and given to other classes.
P.S.: thank you for coming to my TEDtalk.
@@LDSG_A_Team yooooo your comment sums up so much of what I want titans to be and as a titan main I approve what your saying lol
@LDSG_A_Team Your comment doesn't seem to fit Warlocks and Hunters either. Like, it hypes all classes way above what they feel like. If only I felt anything close to what you described as a Warlock. Don't get me wrong, it felt great reading through all that and thinking ah yes, I agree, this is how it should feel like. But it doesn't feel like that as any class imo.
@@amonggus1 it's supposed to be an exaggeration. The descriptions I gave are meant to be the perfect vision and impossible goal that each class is supposed to chase after. It's about describing the IDENTITY of each class, more than anything.
Send this to Bungie, holy shit. Your descriptions of the classes are incredible. You are describing a game that I would absolutely love to play.
Titans nerfed to high heaven while hunters get a buff every other update
I genuinely can't believe that the stasis aspect chosen wasn't howl of the storm. That would work so well with consecration. Uppercut slide scorches and freezes then the slam shatters all the crystals and ignites.
The worst part to me is that when titans are at their lowest, it is absolutely everything. Every type is subpar compared to what you can get out of a warlock or a hunter in almost every way.
But when titans are at their highest peak it is because of one simply busted mechanic. It's never the whole class that is at fault, in fact everything else is still just as mediocre as before. Hammer one two punch synthos? Strand one two punch grapple melee? Void one two punch shield bash? Even just arc storm grenade spam. All definitely too strong at their peak but nerfed out of existence and not replaced with anything new, leaving a power vacuum that is swept up by new hunter and warlock strats
i simply want to have something to my class. make me a tank, a melee powerhouse, i dont really care which but dont just nerf titans and not give them an alternative. I still have to go back to solar or strand when doing endgame content and its boring.
@@jaunks oof same being a titan main sucks but I will not be a hunter main or warlock main lol.
@@VoidCraftGaming same
On top of that Bungie nerfing exotics like severance enclosure that has never been updated by Bungie or even used by player's in year's but turned out to be a fun niche way to play and do ad clear in Onslaught legend, which isn't even endgame, I guess they only want player's to one punch shot gun builds and nothing else
I play all 3 classes but I haven't even touched Titan this update
@@VoidCraftGaming Same here brother. Titan for 10 years, not stopping now.
I’m just saying, the original scrapped Strand super looked like it was going to be a flamethrower/Minigun. Maybe if that was added Titans would be back on top.
Wish warlock got their scrapped spider strand super 😭
This would be great. Truly.
@Forcer69 I heavily doubt that, to be honest. Any weapon like that would be a long dps weapon, and long dps ults don't typically do well unless you can one off it, then switch back to your heavy while it works in the background. There is a reason the warlock arc ult hasn't been relevant since it's glimmering in trials.
1 good super isn't going to change things lol
it was just concept art, it doesnt mean it was ever actually going to be a thing
My biggest gripe with prismatic titan is that all the other classes prismatics feel like a “best of” collection while titans is all just aspects they pulled out of the bottom of the trash can.
you'd think they would mix sunspots, overshield barricade (or volatile) and banner of war? Or baby hammer alongside it? Naaah
I asked what the Prismatic Titan solar melee was, and I thought the answer was Hammer throw.
I thought too much of Titans.
There's also problems with the community (literally just hunters) refusing to recognise the issue at hand so it's difficult to get pressure on Bungie to fix it because a huge proportion of the community doesn't want it to.
Who could have though the class that needs melee kill is bad in a game where you cant melee most enemies?
titan isn’t bad? this is such an oversimplification. titans are decent they just aren’t at the level hunters and warlocks are at currently. just because day one raiders didn’t use titan doesn’t mean titan is bad in all areas of the game.
you regurgitated that comment anyway, i know because i’ve seen it everywhere. think for yourself and maybe your ideas will actually have some depth to them.
@@mapowey i play all 3 classes and titans definetly are bad
@@mapoweyif one class is decent but outplayed by others it means that its bad. If it was decent then it would be able to compete it some comparisons. But nah, both warlocks and hunters can do titans' job better than titans THEMSELVES - survivability, DPS, raw damage, crowd control and etc
Hunters recently got absolutely busted melee build for strand while titans get gutted just because they "became a bit stronger than others". And bungee should BUFF titans to level of warlocks and hunters rather than nerfing
@@nonixus661 i also play all three classes and titan is definitely the worst of the 3. that doesnt mean titan is bad. i was still able to complete the solo legendary campaign on titan with basically the same effort as hunter and warlock. yes maybe i had to think a little bit more on titan (ironic), but titan is not “bad” in any sense of the word. the difference in strength is only really noticeable in the hardest possible content (contest mode raids). if you are just doing dungeons and seasonal activities titans are just as strong as the other classes because literally everything is strong in that type of content.
i do think titans need to change, but saying titan is bad is just disingenuous and wrong. its more like the other classes are so insanely good that titan SEEMS like it’s lacking.
@@mapowey If you like homemade bread but its moldy, you wouldn't eat it because its moldy. Doesn't matter how much you like homemade bread.
I think banner of war and precious scars is an excellent class identity direction for Titans. Give every one of their subclasses a DnD-esque Paladin Aura or a TF2-esque Soldier backpack. Bastion doesn’t enhance your barricade, you as a Titan emit an over shield regenerating aura. Sunspots grant sun warrior *by default*, give Phoenix cradle a bonus effect.
Yeah that is awesome.
I like the idea that Warlock and Titan offer different forms of support
Warlocks provide passive or automated support effects
Titans provide things you can use. Relics, auras, etc
As
As a Titan main They should add a unique banner to all subclasses TBH like you said void banner one may give overshield to the Titan and the Ally's in the aura, ARC banner can give amplified etc. etc. you get the point
That's what i was thinking, Titans should become what they are named after, "Titans", walls of impenetrable mass, tanks that could shrug off being crushed by a mountain.
Honestly just break apart Banner of War to other subclasses then at that point, Solar gets the healing aspect + radiant on solar weapon kills, Arc gets the melee aspect + ability regeneration pulses so that arc titans can spam their arc melees, Void gains pulses of overshields and allows weapons to apply volatile more easily, Stasis should have the best synerfy with Frost Armor on titan and maybe an aoe freeze around the titan while the Stasis banner is up, and Strand should have Woven Mail and Unraveling Rounds synergy.
Or make Titans the paragons of non-kinetic weapons, where their banners provide the easiest access to stuff like Scorch and Slow, like how Tommy's Matchbook and Wicked Implement applies the verbs, with Void and Strand providing the specialized rounds for those weapons. Arc would probably still be a melee focused banner still, but thats fine as I see arc as the melee subclass for Titan the most.
And if course Prismatic shouldnt have access to these banners, but maybe on Titans allow Transcendence to provide weapon buffs like Volatile? Would make it better than providing a nade that only applies Jolt to bosses at least and everything else that the other classes gets with the buff, as Warlock has the best Aoe clearing gernade and Hunters have something they can stick onto bosses easily.
this would be cool as hell
Banner of war and woven mail making titans feel like titans
Bungie: “yeah we should nerf that”
All I can say here. Every time a titan tried to complain about nerfs. We got stonewalled with, "you have been good for too long" or "Esoteric did this solo. " (no clue how to spell his name.) Only now have the nerfs finally piled on too much? I remember the usual, "you needed the nerfs" redirect with TFS launch patch. Wonder if those nerfs were needed still.
It's copium from other mains lol. Literally no argument. Break down those stonewalls and make them eat their own words as they cry
Titans lost all their identity the moment bungie said shoulder charge is to op and nerf it to the ground
An interesting interview near the start of Lightfall highlighted one of Bungie's issues with balancing the class. A dev, responding to the complaints at the time that Berserker's super was just "Green flavored Fist of Havoc", claimed that punching was a chief part of the Titan class identity, claiming "at the end of the day, Titan players, your class is the guy clenching a fist on the cover of the game". During the Twilight Garrison debacle, Kevin Yanes (a Warlock main with deciding power at Bungie) claimed that Garrison would never return, because it was not part of Titan's identity...even though only one subclass within one class (notably the one that Yanes used all the time) had any sort of Air Superiority. It's not really part of Warlock's identity, either. Note that I, as somebody who has been a game dev myself, would never condone the harassment of another dev, but I also know as a game dev that it's difficult to ignore your own biases sometimes.
Now, if Titan's identity, as claimed by Bungie, is "the guy punching stuff", why has every attempt been made to decrease the competency of their punches over the last 3 years? My answer is that Bungie doesn't actually play their own game at a high enough level to know the flaws of the class intimately. Bungie's been caught testing at +20 in footage put out themselves, while the average player has to fight at -5 these days, with many players having to go into GMs at -40 because you need Pinnacle+20 for GMs this season, which is already -20 to start with. Bungie's encounter design and enemy design is such that, at any level of play where your build actually matters, going into melee range is borderline suicidal or outright impossible. Most enemies have spammable One-Hit-Kill Stomps that will nuke you if you aren't running 100 RES and 3x Melee Resist, and even then you'll probably still die in 2 hits since the stomps don't have any reactable delay. So, you have a case of Bungie saying that Titans should be doing one thing, then punishing them at every turn for doing that one thing.
"Class Identity" has been used by Bungie devs to win arguments online more than it has to actually balance the classes.
I think that's a failure of Bungie's designers.
solarlock being aerial is def part of the identity bungie has in mind? half (used to be 2/3) of the aspects are for being in the air and the original super gives you wings
@@hastur2905 yeah but if u really think about it they haven't directly said that and if that were true they wouldn't have the worst jump in the game, that seems more like a correction made so that warlocks could more easily make their jumps since for a long time especially in d1 struggled a lot at times and couldn't make the same simple jumps hunters and titans could. That to me makes sense since solarlocks thing was being able to self revive before it got reworked in d2
@@hastur2905 If warlock being able to fly was part of the class identity, more than one subclass would have access to it.
I don't think it's just a play testing problem. None of them actively play titan at all let alone on difficult content
true @JeanneDGames
THANK GOD! People are finally taking the flaws in the Titan Class Identity seriously. Tuna was the first to really do it, as far as I know, but now the bigger D2 personalities are making videos talking about it, FINALLY. Bungie needs to do something, and I hope they take what we the people are saying into account and make Titans into something truely special and fun.
Go look at our REALLY old videos about titans. We have been on this for literally years and are just now big enough to make a splash
@@TDTProductions Ya learn something new every day. You are a real one
Don't get your hopes up. Cuz I can promise you. Nothing of real meat or significance will change. Period. Just play another game
Agreed. I honestly started to feel it when Pantheon came out, and my team was cheesing Nez. I felt extremely useless during that fight since I couldn't do anything from range. I considered swapping to Hunter even. We had one other run on both Riven and Nez. We only got the platinum on Nez because we had an extra Hunter, and Nez was only easier because I was baiting him in Melee range. Basically, if the boss couldn't be Meleed at the moment, I was useless. The only other time when Titan was useful was insta-killing the Tormentor on Planets with Strand.
@@AzurFenix HATE this mentality. Literally hate it. Especially at this point, I've been playing sice Day 1 of D1. I like the game, and want it to improve. Bungie can't do that, if people just jump ship when stuff gets bad, instead of telling them what needs work.
I feel like Titan as a whole needs to be reworked from the ground up. Bungie has, for too long, focused on the "Punchy" Titan as their whole gimmick. Titan was meant to be an unbreakable wall, meant to be the inspiring Tank that *can* be Melee Focused, but *should* be Tank Focused.
You highlighted a clear problem. Titan needs a more identified identity. They're focused on something that can't always be provided in a fight. I personally feel like a more "Tank" focused Titan would do it some good, but clearly the prime issue isn't Prismatic. What Titan needs is a full ground-up rework to revitalize them. It's not a *great* solution, especially so late into a series lifespan, but the problem has festered for too damn long. If people have other ideas, I'm more than open to hear them, but clearly Titan doesn't have a proper niche to build around on Bungie's Side, and I think that's frankly *criminal.*
I mean, just look at them, from a visual perspective. They wear heavy armor, they have a sort of "Valiant" aesthetic to them. From a purely aesthetic perspective, the Titan is visually distinguishable from the other two classes. So why does it feel like Bungie has such a hard time giving them a true identity?
Edit: I think I realized the easiest way to illustrate my point. I'd like to propose a Challenge: Aside from the Actium War Rig, name a Titan Exotic that is not, in some way, based around Melee.
If you can, then tell me what the Exotic does, from there. For example: The One-Eyed Mask, giving you a Quest System where you get... Overshield. Cool.
As i read your question of naming an exotic at the end. I instantly thought of "One-eyed mask" and then saw the example. This is a sad world for titans. We truly live at the edge of life and death in high-level content.
yeah if you change titan completely though everyone will switch off it because its not titan ya know how would you feel if they got rid of hunter dodge or ranged melees
@@braydengeick4015 As I said, it's not exactly a great solution, but frankly Titan is already the least played of the three classes. Growth rarely comes without pain, and unless someone can come up with a better plan, that's the best I can think of, because the problem has existed for far too long.
@@braydengeick4015 "everyone will switch off it because its not titan ya know how would you feel if they got rid of hunter dodge or ranged melees"
IT CANNOT GO LOWER
A titan exotic that isn't based around melee... Ashen Wake?
This may be a hot take, but the problem with titans is that every so often one or two builds tend to shine through the slop that titans are given. And every single time, instead of buffing or changing other subclasses/aspects/supers/etc., they nerf the build shining through into the ground making titans obsolete again.
Titan main here.
Your assessment is 100% correct. Titans are often seen as "the melee class" purely because of the fact that Titan Melee abilities can make or break the entire subclass. That, coupled with the fact that literally *ALL* of our subclasses use some form of melee in them.
For example. Void has 3 supers; a large dome shield, a handheld shield *that you can throw* and block with or three large axes that deal damage to an enemy *and can be picked up*
2 of the 3 options for us titans on a single subclass use melee. This trend is on literally all of our subclasses, sometimes having no other options at all.
People do really tend to forget that when Arc 3.0 came out, the meta pick for titans wasn't any of the melee options. It was a grenade build. Void was the same. People hated void 3.0 because the void melee options weren't great, so people used grenades. Then Solar 3.0 came out and everyone hated the solar grenade options and instead relied on the throwing hammer (people hated consecration too, now you can't make a Prismatic build without it).
At the end of the day, us Titans need something to help us compete with the likes of Hunters and Warlocks. We either need more options for stuff to do, or we need pre-nerf melees that can melt bosses in a heartbeat. Maybe even more melee options to choose from.
And, you know, a super that is a 1-and-done and doesn't require an exotic to do well with.
Or maybe literally anything besides melee. The other classes have various was to play, and Titans need the same. I was happy with Diamond Lance was part of the prismatic kit, but it's too weak to do anything outside of patrol land. I loved the Strom grande build with heart of imost light, because it was different.
I hated Solar 3.0 on titans specifically because of the melee. I still to this day loathe and detest the doinker. Give me back my flaming punch. Nope, it's all doink, chase it down, doink, chase it down, doink, whiff it off a cliff, wait 3 minutes until you can again doink, chase, doink, chase, doink. Thanks, I hate it. Typical Bungle.
@@invadertrigHonestly would love to see more grenade focused stuff for us Titans. HOIL storm grenade felt so good compared to what I was used to, but I haven't wanted to use HOIL since it got nerfed. But I would also love to see some more support/firearm buff stuff in our kits. That's part of what I loved about Banner of War and Into the Fray, the healing and woven mail can benefit everyone on the team. I want more stuff like that, but apparently Bungie disagrees since they removed Weapons of Light from the bubble.😢
@susaigithefallenone8323 I couldn't agree more was running precious scars with a heal clip weapon for a support build after I got bored of strand.
You don't like melee then switch classes?
Armamentarium absolutely needs to have one universal scavenger and reserve mod built in.
It was literally designed to buff all armaments (not just add +1 grenade) but was introduced in D2 as a shell of its former self and has never been returned to its D1 glory.
This. I want titan to be the "heavy ammo/weapon" class
@@ivsper1441 and that would fit their design philosophy so much better, Because they design things in a way to where you cannot melee them in high-end content. Unless you are on a roll (with something like combination below or worm gods) or you have so many buffs stacked to where you can just kill them instantly. Heavy weapons make more sense.
Turn it into Ruin Wings 2 imo, giving it that old functionality
It genuinely baffled me how this exotic has been in the game for YEARS and it's ONLY function is +1 nade...
You'd think after the "sweep" they did going thru old exotics to buff THIS would've been one of the ones they touched and did SOMETHING with...
But this is Bungo we're talking about. Expect nothing, and you'll somehow still be disappointed regardless!
they should fuse armamentarium and actium war righ together
I think the most frustrating part for me is the lack of Titan's base identity. When the classes were constructed, they had pretty basic identites. You had Hunter, who was the scouts, the assassins, and the outlaws. You had Warlock, which was the spellslingers. The wizards of the setting. Then you had Titans, which were the unbreakable wall. The soldier who holds the shield against waves crashing against humanity. I wish Titans were allowed to be what they were always pitched as. Tanks. Super Soldiers. Instead of being pigeon-holed into just punching. There was 1 subclass in D1 that focused on punching and all of a sudden it became the classes entire thing.
As a warlock I wonder what Titan would be like if it had the thematic diversity warlocks had. While we had White Mage, Black Mage, Engineer with turrets, and Minion master.
For titans however, Striker Behemoth and Berserker all pretty much have the same theme of "unkillable brawler" Void is the only one that plays into them being "The Wall" and While I think Sunbreaker was supposed to be the Holy Paladin class, It falls apart into just being Unkillable Brawler but with a hammer this time. And it bit bungie in the ass when trying to make prismatic not entirely about being an unkillable brawler, because well, there wasn't a whole lot of options there. I definitely see what I think Bungie's intent with prismatic titan was though. A weapons master. Void axes, Diamond Lances, Tangles, these all work with the theme of providing the team with weapons, but it just wasn't enough really.
The thing is, that bleak watcher would be a match made in heaven for titans. He would be the commander. I never thought, that warlock was the right class for it. You say it warlock has black mage white mage and minion master. Warlock could have minions and buddy's spawned on them, but constructs/weapons should be the Titan fantasy. Titan lost souch to warlock. The on time they got sth which could be seen for warlock led to multiple nerfs for arc Titan (which had a little commander vibe with storm grandes) Titan should be brawler, defender and commander. You see the problem an solar. Warlock should right fully get best cure, but Titan should get best restoration (for itself). Also after all the nerfs vor sun spots I don't get, why sun spots don't give resto and radiant. With nerfs to resto Loreley also should be back to resto X2, which should only exist on titans, while cure should be for warlocks. Also each Titan class needs the neutral melee like knockout has given before the nerf (was on Strand and void also), this nerf needs to be reverted.
@@TheChrisdelay i completely agree with your solar titan takes, I always thought it was such BS that titans had better sustain on solar then a warlock, and you didn't even have to run healing grenades to boot! Even just by running an exotic helmet you get massive healing for practically free in that it only costs a frikin barricade??? are you joking? If you want a semi decent restoration build for warlock without a healing nade, not only do you have to run phoenix dive because rifts for whatever reason barely synergize with the solar kit, you ALSO HAVE to run heat rises in order to get restoration from it in the first place. It's unreal how bad phoenix dive is without heat rises. Half the time i'm dead by the time the diving animation is over it drives me insane.
My question is how they're struggling so hard with titans identity to begin with when so many characters throughout history and fiction would probably be titans if they were in d2. Like come on, master chief anyone? And another question is why they are relagating certain things to other classes when titans should have them, why did they give a giant ass fire sword to warlock? Why did they give the rope dart to hunters when titans should have gotten something like a chain whip or something. But fine, ill suck it up, they can have those.
But why does hunter have ten different identities but titan is just "punch". Solar is the only one that stands out, and a case could be made for void, but the rest is punch, punch with an oversized claw, and punch with a boxing glove.
It didn't always be this way, titans used to be tactical geniuses ASWELL as bastions that could punch you in the face. The blatent flanderization is crazy and i think the addition of oversized, absurd shoulders is just the cherry on top of the shit cake.
@@GCanopus Well your first paragraph is pure lunacy lol. Titans can't have everything my friend. But the rest of what you stated is pretty fair, they haven't been at all creative in terms of titan supers. The rope dart for example was really neat and new for hunters, and needle storm albeit pretty similar to nova bomb was also cool. Titans just got another I'm gonna run up and punch you super.
Every time Titans can do something funny or cool, it gets taken from us too.
I WANT MY INFINITE HAMMER BONK BACK BUNGIE!
Another idea, to build into the titan identity of a juggernaut. Replace the rally barricade with something like a riot shield instead. So you can choose a large stationary shield for you or the team, or a smaller shield for you only to help push
Yo that sounds kinda cool actually. Go all captain america on their asses
So kinda like Unbreakable but as a class ability?
Here I am, throwing my two cents in. As an avid titan player from all the way back to Destiny 1, Launch Day. The game does need to ebb and flow, have ups and down, that's how it is. Titans originally were the wall the darkness breaks upon. We're in a day and age where that line doesn't work. I've seen it time and time again. Titans are the melee brawlers, titans are the melee unstoppable killing machines. We're in a point where melee = death, and there's nothing denying that. Try to do 1-2 punch in a GM and tell me how safe it is. If it's a single add? Sure, you might survive, but you can't focus and isolate a single high value target, ie Champions in a room, you're dead. GG.
What needs to happen in my own honest opinion, is a full on titan rework. They can't be the melee focused class anymore. It's just not viable. If they are to change, remove their melee brawler aspect and turn them into a Heavy Unit Class. Damage Reduction, Keep the attention away from Hunter/Warlock, have them be the frontline that the enemy has to push past instead of the melee brawler, have them be a heavy frontline unit where they can funnel and keep. That's just my two cents. Keep them as the frontline class, but change them from brawler to Stalwart Defender.
Would this be very difficult, if not impossible to do? Oh no doubt. But it would have a better use than what titans are right now with "Punch everything". You can insult my take, you can call me a fucking moron or put me on copium. Your entilted to your opinion as I'm entitled to mine. Some may agree, some may disagree, but this is how I'd envision titans moving forward. Have them become the Tank of the Guardian Trio.
Good luck out there fellow Titans. Don't lose hope. We're at a low, but we'll get out of it stronger, hopefully.
This is something I wished I emphasized better in the video. I too want titans to be the tank class. As an example, my favorite set ups are icefall mantle glaive titan, and unbreakable ursa furiosa titan
@@TDTProductions Unbreakable Ursa Furiosa is one I do genuinely enjoy, it feels meaty and beefy and it's a step I like. It's time for Titans to really embrace being the Tanks of Destiny, and I hope Bungie sees this, whether it be on a tweet, forum, or anything.
I would love for Titan to be the Tank, because broadly speaking Hunter is a DPS class, Warlock is a healing class.
It would make the most sense for a Titan to be the tank class.
We have Ursa (which is very niche) to hold the line and protect the team, same with Ward.
But the other subclasses have their niches too, outside of banner which is as close to a tank as you're going to be.
But even on GM difficulty banner gets shut down.
I agree with everything except the last paragraph. Yes, it would be difficult, but FAR from impossible. In fact, what you suggested is EXACTLY what Bungie needs to do without question! Titans should do exactly what you said and more.
heavy unit
perfect add clear
High aggro and defense
Maybe even dropping more ammo for allies, or ability recharge rate
Weapon damage buffs more substantial than the empowering rift (Which Imo, Warlocks shouldn't have.)
Or better yet, if Bungie want's to make y'all melee brawlers. Banner of war is the right direction. Give titans the freedom to do what they do best, but still be supportable without them having to scream "LEEROY" every time they rally.
As a Titan only player since the alpha and beta, you said it perfectly. I want to be the first in. the first gun. The first to die. I want to move in fast, jump high, and have all the adds shoot me while my team slips by. To be the tank, The sheild, The wall.
How cool would it be to say, "Get behind me"
For stasis Titan, Behemoth felt like they were going for “the glacier is slow, but the glacier is coming, nothing you can do will stop it from crushing you”.
which is fine but then our shatter damage should be like, twice what it is
And yet I hate Titan stasis super...and the expansion that came with it.
Although ironically, Behemoth is among the faster Titan subclasses. Shiver Strike and Glacial Quake among them.
Tbf Behemoth is fine, has an actual identity, but the melee is absolute trash and the super, while great in certain scenarios, is weak and generic
@@Sohelanthropus The issue with shiver strike is that people don't know how to use it, and because of that it does fall short.
It's a melee that snaps, and has a long reaching distance should you hold the melee. The actual hit of said melee comes out when you release the melee button, which causes that snap to lock onto whatever enemy may be nearby.
Tbh it's a good movement tool if you don't want to risk using it for, well, melee.
In some way, the Titan problem mirrors the original Torbjorn problem of OW1.
The game is too fast paced and DPS dependent to sit in one place unless there is a key objective that needs to be protected.
It might have a similar solution.
For Torbjorn, the fix was to change how his kit worked. Originally it was centered around slowly building and upgrading a single sentry gun to offset his own middling damage. Devs and players discovered that the downtime between fights, whether the fight was a win or not, felt unproductive.
If the fight was won, your time as the Torbjorn was spent re-armoring your teammates and repairing your turret. If it was lost, it was the same, except you had to build up your turret to level 3 again.
Instead, they changed his kit, removing the armor benefits but allowing him to throw out a sentry at any time. This meant in general, he was a much more mobile threat, able to supplement his DPS at a moment’s notice, rather than be tied to the Area of Denial the turret provided.
For Titan, the barricade as a class ability seems to provide the same limitation. Gone are the days of close quarters maps and chokeholds that benefit from being closed off. With how mobile all classes are, it makes no sense to invest in a single entrance when most enemies have a way through or around your barricade.
Of course, there are perks and exotics that benefit from standing your ground. From using your shield offensively, setting enemies on fire, suspending or blinding them.
But overall, the action of performing your class ability informs how you should play your kit. For hunters, it’s to take corners and dodge out of the way after the opportunity is gone. For warlocks, it’s to provide a moment of respite, with most extra benefits happening at the moment of cast rather than gained from idling. For Titan, your goal is to stay still. This of course doesn’t mesh with the “punch everything” approach that Titan wants to have.
What I suggest, is to lean into the other aspect that Titans are always depicted to have: Leadership and a war cry. With the introduction of strand came the Banner aspect for Titan, an idea of a mobile AoE buff. I would like a banner to replace the barricade.
Functionally, this would be to lay down a banner or class specific marker that either provided buffs to a region, or functioned like an armor pack that would allow teammates to withdraw a buff or throwable from. This would align Titan with the historically similar ways that Hunter and Warlock have been able to provide utility with their class abilities. Additionally, it would provide the individual subclasses of Titan their own individual identity of how aggressive or defensive they could play.
Examples would be:
Solar: slamming a giant burning maul onto the ground, providing Radiance in an AoE similar to bubble or Scorching enemies that get close to it.
- Leans into utility aspect of Keywords associated with Solar that don’t overlap with Hunter or Warlock
- Kephrii’s horn would in essence become a single heavy swing of the super.
Arc: Slamming a fist into the ground, making a Jolting aftershock for enemies or blinding them
- Make Arc your hyper offensive selfishly aggressive kit, where your class ability can be used while surrounded by enemies, rather than from a distance
Void: Slam a shield into the ground granting the void overshield as well as providing the original barricade
- Make Void the purely defensive subclass, focused on overshields and standing your ground
Stasis: Slam a pickaxe into the ground, creating a localized Duskfield or allowing for teammates to pick up diamond lances from the impact spot.
- Focuses on making Stasis provide close range utility to synergize better with Behemoth
Strand: Plant the banner from the aspect, providing the same benefits, but allow the titan to pick up the banner as well, using it as a weapon, or its original purpose as a recovery generator
- Possibly provides extra benefit if in red health
In general, I believe that a lot of the strength of the classes comes from what they can do during the downtime between the big flashy stuff. This hypothetical is to make it so a Titan feels like they can make an impact without shortening the overall time between supers.
Nice idea
the main issue is that often people forget titans are also made for frontlines, defense, being the tank in front of your team. hence banner of war on strand or bubble. but now prismatic is faced with poor aspects, and bubble is nerfed to the ground lacking its buffs unless you run helm of saint-14.
Titans got flanderized for years and only now are the masses truly waking up to the consequences
We’ve been on this for over 2 years. Go see our REALLY old (and bad) titan videos. I think it’s more that bungie finally saw it
You can't pretend like Titan's didn't have moment of dominance. It was mostly in PVP community where the Flanderizing came from, because who would have thought that a bullet sponge in PVP would make squishy warlocks and hunters angry little rats? That isn't to say I agree though. There's no point in titans outside of PVP. Hell, I barely even SEE a barricade these days (For better of for worse, when it comes to my explosive users.)
@@okamiexe1501 this is a PVE game
@@okamiexe1501I always assumed hunter movement was seen as the better pvp option.movement in a fps is more important than aim.but the hunter skill ceiling is high .so an average hunter getting shoulder charged just breaks their spirit which is not good considering most players are hunters.
@@criscat1750then why do they put rewards in pvp
Im still mad to this day they gave a volatile rounds exotic to hunters and not the class that specialises in it, ever since season of the plunder i have had a grudge against that exotic and i thought the class item would've let titans use it but no :(
As a warlock main everyone getting devour easier then warlocks with feed the void hurt my soul
@@bigboywillis2812 To be fair, Warlocks get more utility out of Devour
Same with Triton Vice. Give that to Titans and give Hunters something else.
@@centimanj8916 yeah true but it’s always weirded me out that the other classes can get it
Combination blow make no sense to me, why is on hunter? Why isn't it on THE melee class?
Armaterium really needs a buff. 2 grenades just isn’t enough.
I’m thinking either grenades get a faster cooldown if they get kills OR grenades get a 30% damage increase/50% duration depending on the grenade used.
This would greatly add to their effectiveness (obviously prismatic wouldn’t get that buff)
The core issue with balancing a frontline brawler class (or a melee class if we want to get reductive) is that being close to enemies is almost always the most dangerous place to be in, that's just how fighting works. If a class is going to primarily exist in that space, they need the resilience to exist there without instantly getting shredded. The problem being, once you give the class said resilience, how do you stop them from taking it outside of that danger zone and becoming literally unkillable?
The simplest answer is probably making the provided resilience scale with how close the player is to enemies. This allows the class to be hardy when tearing up the frontlines but not when they're scrambling for cover from snipers (Titans already have their barricades ready to prevent this from being too much of a weakness). There's hints of this design already present in Destiny ranging from the Melee Resistance armor mod to the Surrounded weapon perk (also acting as Synthoceps' trigger). The actual armor stat of Resilience could be modified to fit this idea as well. It might result in Hunters and Warlocks actually dropping the stat as a priority in favor of something else (it might still end up ruling the PVP scene but that's a very different beast).
As a titan main the most powerful I've ever felt was on 4 separate occasions
First being OG BONK just before witch queen where i was one or two shooting most dungeon bosses.(NERFED)
Second was during this past year with Vexcalibur and glaives felt so strong and made you feel like a real tank class giving my overshield buff to allies and making sure they don't go down and argoing most enemies (NERFED for the most part)
Third was after the changes to swords and strongholds that was hilarious I was the one one v oneing crota on master while the rest of the team did the encounter or taking care of any large champions/tormentors but that was really only a defensive role you could only block and now with the nerfs to Lament and banner or war it's not as good as it use to be(NERFED)
Fourth is the first time I was using the newly buffed precious scars on solar with a incandescent trace rifle and eventually a heal clip + incandescent lunas howl to make sure that my allies health never dropped however that build is only useful if your the one getting the kill which 90% of the time your not (USEFUL but not powerful)
There are other times I've felt strong such as the manticore buff on void titan with doom fang or SWEET BUSINESS but eh most excited I've been to play was for the new hazardous propulsion you know the rocket one and running that with a slice one for all call and a bxr and grand overture has been really fun but not in end game the prismatic kit doesn't have the sustainability for most fights such as healing grenades, devour, controlled demolition, bannor of war. Yes you can get some healing with knockout but that means you have to go in to melee and the most defensive weapon type GLAIVES don't work with knockout and/or offensive bulkwork. The only thing that is useful in a end game sense for prismatic is smacking on as many verbs as possible and praying to God you stay alive long enough to use them all mainly slice, suspend, overshields/woven mail, jolt and suppress.
In short titan as a whole feels like an old shopping mall food court, it has everything you think you want but then you get there and realize that more than half the spots are closed, under new management, recipes changed, or it just isn't as good as it use to be. there are still those old reliable spots but they don't feel the same especially when you look at all of the new restaurants(classes) across the parking lot. Meanwhile prismatic feels like a shity buffet with only some of the things that you liked at the food court but none of what made them special.
Dude, I'm a Titan main, and I just want to say thank you for making a video about this. A lot of the stuff you've said in this video i agree with. Titans don't get as much love as hunters and warlocks... and for someone who, like you said, uses warlock a lot, this video means a lot. So thank you
EXACTLY THIS, they need more aspects and abilities that allow you to build into survivability and that would help by a ton for the class.
Honestly. I’d love if they added on to some niche Titan exotics to support you and your team better. For example:
Actium war rig: In addition to its current effects, Blocking damage with your barricade will generate special and heavy ammo for you and your team depending on how much damage was blocked.
Loreley Splendor: precision kills grant your allies roaring flames. Increases roaring flames stack count to 5
Second chance: your shield can now return to you. (basically threaded spike) If you catch it, you have a few seconds to throw it again with a damage boost that will also make enemies volatile. Not throwing it agin will refund half of your melee energy.
Synthoceps: passively increased lunge. (PVE ONLY! YOU COULD HAVE DONE THAT SO EASILY BUNGIE)
Cuirass of the falling star: ballistic slam jolts targets and grants an overshield. Ballistic slam kills give super energy.
Hallowfire heart: kills while standing in a sunspot will generate a hammer of Sol. Allies who throw the hammer will receive a buff to solar weapons.
Helm of saint 14: Gain a second barricade charge. Your void abilities blind targets.
Ursa furiosa: Holding down the super button will convert sentinel shield into a giant barricade that can be shot through. (Has the same effects as sentinel shield)
Youre curing my warlock racisim brother. Thank you for sticking up for our class💪
Also can I just how fucked up it is that bungie thought titans needed to have bubble nerfed to not provide weapons of light by default. It was barely used, but now there’s no reason to use it unless you use helm of Saint 14
Titans were almost useful, can't have that.
Its perverse that they prefaced it with " Ward of Dawn has long struggled to find a place in our current sandbox" and then hit it with the mother of all Nerfs.
@@centimanj8916 "ward of dawn has long stuggled to find a place in the sandbox, so we ended its suffering"
Bubble was strong in Trials, so they nerfed it into the ground because it was good in one (1) gamemode. All they needed to do was reduce the Weapons of Light damage buff in PvP but they just removed it entirely.
@@evanellis9178 Was it even strong in PvP, like really? especially compared to well?
Speaking from an Titan only perspective, it always felt like all it took was someone walking in and hitting LMB once with a shotgun and Boom. Bubble down.
Mfs will look at this and be like "hurrr, but strand titan navigator dungeon hurrr, banner of warrr, they are LE BROKEN bro"
Meanwhile Behemoth is dead in the water, Sentinel has the worst Verb usage of nearly all subclasses, Strikers melee side became a worse version of Arcstrider's and the bombardier side is outclassed by any grenade build on Warlock, Sunbreaker's are a shadow of their former selves, Prismatic is [consecration spam] galore with sub-par sustain and 80% of the exotic Titan cataloge is mid at best and useless at worst.
And don't forget how the "Tank" of the trio is just as, IF NOT LESS TANKY than the other 2, or how any survivability and sustain gets nerfed on them (Void overshields, woven mail, restoration 2x on Loreley, etc).
Titans need help. Rant over.
I have been a titan main since beyond light and this is the first time I am actually going to be playing more of the other classes at least until they get buffed.
@user-yw4mf6pn8d Me too, I have been playing Titan since Destiny 1 and sincerely this is the first time I'm playing outside of my Titan, aside from the campaigns to unlock stasis, strand, and prismatic. Currently using my Warlock and I can tell they're better as of now. Woe to the vanquished I suppose
They can't be tanks,because they have to have the same ttk as the rest of us. If bungie would only nerf in pvp and not pve we would be fine. They either give Titans one hitters or make them annoying to kill. People don't seem to know how to build for a titan or this video would be very different.
The only way to feel like a tank on Titan, in my opinion, is to run a build centered around strong hold. The problem with this however is that same as before. If you can melee or sword the boss, you are useless.
Isn’t behemoth still the strongest damage super in the game when paired with that one exotic?
As someone whos a titan main and has played for a while but yet doesn't know everything about the game and watches you for the info and cool facts.
You described this perfectly.
Especially the ways you could fix the class. I especially love the idea of Solar titan and Actium War Rig.
Keep up the amazing work!
The slow death of Titans began with the synthoceps / bonk hammer nerf, it’s all been downhill from there
As someone who mains titan I think that all of your ideas were actually great but just one thing titans need is a super on each class that actually has range as the main attack so you can use them on all bosses. They don't have to be as good as the other classes but it's a shame that we miss out on a good chunk of dps from not using our supers.
yes I would love this I am sick and tired of having to go close to a boss with a super on titan and dyeing or even worse not being able to do anything at all!
Yes! I've had enough of wasting my super on ads because it would be useless against the boss and losing that extra damage that could help.
Titans are in a spot where we aren't good at any one particular thing, but we don't excel in an area where anyone is saying" Guys can someone please play a titan for this" Add clear is not the answer. No one completes an encounter, or a boss, and says " whew look at that kill count, nice job guys" while also being bottom of the dps chart. in LFG that is a quick way to get yourself removed from a group. However, Titan subclasses are inherently catered to being in melee range, with a large number of bosses that either inhibit or punish people for being in melee range, or carry aspects that require you to stay in place to be able to do damage. Couple that with Exotics that build into the same idea of " Melee" and there is not much we can do against bosses like The Taken King or More recently the Witness who dangle off the edge and out of reach. Hunters, being Bungie's favored child, got the pinnacle of options with Celestial Nighthawk when Silent HUnt released. Everyone knew it. Even with Hazardous Propulsion in our arsenal, its only because it lets us do something ranged damage wise, but it doesn't do anything for our class. Subclasses in titan don't build towards the fantasy that was being " The Warrior". Any time we find something that actually works, bungie nerfs us. Even today, Hunters have exceeded us in the melee aspect now. So what are we left with? Ward was nerf, so our utility options are basically gone, half our supers require melee range or are "add clear" supers. We are not a warrior, we are just one of those unnamed Spartans from Halo that Bungie can't let go of. If Hunters are Damage, and Warlocks are Support, shouldnt Titans be the role that protects? Yet we are constantly in a state of vulnerability more so than our brethren who can heal on the spot or dodge out of everything. Our shields aren't used because it becomes more of a hindrance than a help. So what are we? Having played Titan since BEta in D1, I can say I just feel like an extra. Half thought out ideas, from a creative team that isn't even staffed by people who play and truly understand the class. IN truth I hope D2 is the end for Destiny so that I can say good bye to the disappointment season after season, expansion after expansion.
Honestly man great video hope you keep making this kind of stuff your points are great hopefully this brings the right kind of attention to the class and game as a whole.
9:30 2 each??? My hunter has literally all of them pretty much all at once with an insanely simple gyrfalcon build combined with some other super simple build crafting
What’s frustrating is that Titans have just as much POTENTIAL for a unique identity and niche as the others.
Hunter. The mobile assassin, the invisible rogue, the dead eyed gunslinger.
Warlock. Master of magic, the arcane manipulator, the radiant angel.
Titan. The punch monkey.
Bungie has flanderized titan so hard they don’t even know what titans should be good at anymore. All of Their subclasses are held together with a single good aspect and a prayer that the 3 exotics they have won’t be nerfed.
Is it just me or do Titan mains seem to *love* being the punch monkey tho?
I vaugly remember from the start of D2 when bungie announced they were remaking the 3 subclasses so they could give each class a stronger identity to make them more distinct from each other. If I remember right, they follow as such:
Warlocks channel the light in its raw form
Hunter makes weapons out of the light
Titans enhanced their bodies with the light.
This works for hunter and warlock, but there is only so much you can do with the titan identity without remaking arc titan. And giving titan a weapon super like everyone wants infringes on the hunter identity. There are acceptions to this, but most of that is in style not function ie solar/stasis warlock and void titan. And the big infringement is solar titan, which is a holdover from D1 before the identity rework. And now void axe is also a big infringement on the hunter identity although a 2H axe does not fit the hunter motif
Titan suffers because it's identity is very specific and limiting, hunter shines becuse it's identity is vauge and as expansive as your imagination. And warlock is kinda prdictable and boring
@@Moose_Hawkins nah fr, every titan main I talk wants to just punch...idk why
@@Moose_HawkinsIt's just you. There's many Titans I've met in my years who wish we could do more. It's why I prided myself as being the team's Iron Wall of Defense/Offense by being a top tree void main since day one. Now with all the changes and nerfs, I'm a shadow of my former self. It hurts and honestly thinking about quitting D2 after I finish the new story. I'm tired of the years of suffering. This all started since Beyond Light. The nerfs haven't stopped since and it's only gotten worse.
@@Guile_The_Exile okay thanks for the response but I'm not reading all that
With the original statement made by the dev it looks like they already intend to focus more on titans as a whole. "looking at that which is not just prismatic at all." Bungie is aware that titans are falling way behind other classes, and regardless of the few builds we have as Titans, that statement says enough. The community arguments on the topic seem overall inconsequential when Bungie themselves can see it.
Edit: Please do not mistake my comment for me saying I'm not willing to debate on titans, my overall thought comes to the chosen class identity by bungie themselves. Melee isn't an identity in my mind. Tank is how i have always believed the thought should've been. even in lore the emblem for titan is about them holding the wall at six fronts. However with the current state of titans the only way i find that fantasy is by putting on strongholds and giggling when enemies think they deal damage.
I see it more as a way to make it more of a dialogue it worked with raid surges so hopefully it will work here
I’ve been playing Destiny since D1 release day, can’t believe I just now discovered this channel. I blame YT. Great work!
One of the best videos I’ve seen on Titans and articulated what I’ve been feeling as a Titan main.
One additional idea: add a super that activates an “enrage,” mode. While enraged, the Titan draws aggro from all nearby enemies.
While the super is active, taking damage increases weapon damage a moderate amount and getting kills with weapons matching your subclass heals you. Probably fits best on solar but could realistically be on any class.
Also, strengthen the effects of subclass verbs on the classes they were meant for. Make the Titan overshield stronger than other classes (think resto x2 vs resto x1).
I’ve always said I’m a better Titan than Hunter, yet I’m a Hunter main because I like their kit better. I play Hunter like a front liner, regardless of how little health I have, I will jump into the fray like a goddamn madman giggling as I murder my enemies, then die in 2 seconds because I’m in a GM and forgot my health is that of a crunchy autumn leaf. I can now point people towards this exact video as to why I like the Hunter kit more.
I also feel like the video can be broken down to this, Hunters are THE dps class, and CAN be a tank or support. Warlocks are THE support class, and CAN be a tank or dps. But Titans CAN be a tank, or a support, or a dps. They are meant to be THE tank, but don’t have anything that truly symbolizes that role other than the barricade shield, but that’s not really anything special. Titans “Yay I can make cover wherever I happen to be.” Hunters and Warlocks “bro for the love of god, JUST USE THE ROCK THATS 3 FEET AWAY FROM YOU”
It's a sad truth. I am a warlock main and while I'm doing my other class playthroughs, I've been having sooo much fun playing as a titan and ready to go back after my hunter playthrough. Another thing to notate is the items on the Eververse store for titans....it's very much lacking there too which if Bungie doesn't even make idle animations for them to sell on their money printing machine, it speaks truths on how long this has been ongoing.
Destiny 2 really lifted the wool from my eyes to its balance trends for titans during the point in time that they nerfed synthos with glaives, making them deal less damage than a normal unaugmented punch
I grew tired of everything fun in the titan kit being nerfed to the ground; they said titans were the 'melee class' but then whenever a melee aspect got good, they got nerfed into the ground and immediately ceased being fun or even useful
Also…. To say the Titan is “Too strong” is wild. They are Titan’s… they are supposed to be Strong because they are the frontline of the fireteam.
Staying alive and killing things is the primary objective in this game. Warlocks provide healing, they print heavy ammo, they offer mobile damage resist with song of flame, great add control with turrets. Hunters are the best DPS, add clear is pretty effective especially on solar, free revives or safe relocation with invis, best crowd control with tether. Titans have there space as well: Trials capture zone and Atrraks 1. Those are the only times were its best to be a titan. Due to boss health changes, are we still the best for solo dungeons?
With the new healing Auto, been using that on VanOPs and Dungeons just healing everyone as a hunter. The Titans went off the rails… reminds me of the classic Rpg of healing dps/Aggro.
I have an idea on how to make titans unique and different again. I want titan roaming supers and titan melees to have combo's and follow up mechanics to their abilities. Here are some examples:
Solar Titan (Melee): What if your throwing hammer could be called back like a boomerang? if you get an initial kill, it will refund half your melee energy and if it hits someone on it's way back to you, it refunds the other half. When your hammer comes back to you, you emit a healing aura that gives you and your allies restoration constantly for a certain amount of time depending on the number of kills before returning to you. You are rewarded for your accuracy with a perpetual motion machine for a melee that also heals you and your team.
Or if you like shoulder charge, what if we turned it into a two hit combo? If you get a multikill (3+ kills) with shoulder charge, you can follow that up with a rising attack like hunter's ascension, where you spin your hammer up into the air and spread solar light to the area around you, scorching targets and leaving a sunspot under you.
(Super): (besides burning maul) what if you could throw AND hit enemies with your hammers? What if your grenade, melee and class abilities with moves you can only do in your super.
Overall, I think Titan's melee/super kit across all/most subclasses needs to be overhauled and changed so titan's can be unique again.
8:54 ummm...Thundercrash with Cuirass is a dominate force. Why wasn't it used on Witness for damage? Is it not possible to hit and then float back onto the platform?
One thing I feel the need to point out is that the big reason Titan was so underrepresented for the Witness is because the fight itself actively punished basically every aspect of every Titan kit, and massively rewarded Hunters (especially Celestial Nighthawk hunters) and, to a lesser extent, Warlocks. Like, all Titan could do on that fight was be reasonably good at add clear and dealing with that nonsense, while Warlocks could provide both good add clear as well as support and healing, an extremely useful role in contest mode, and Hunters could do that _and_ do frankly stupid and gamebreaking amounts of damage to the Witness, with burst damage far beyond anything else we've ever seen in the game, which only made them even more clutch due to how short the Witness' final stand is.
Titan as a class has a lot of issues that need fixing, and I think the analysis in the video is broadly pretty accurate. I just find it weird to use statistics from a fight designed to give a middle finger to the class to support the argument that the class is bad. There's better ways to go about it.
And those 50 are also based on when contest mode is active +half the items in the game being disabled on a world first raid race. That chart is not accurate outside of that.
What fights in this game counter the other two classes? I could be wrong... but I can't think of one that shuts down them whereas I can point out SEVERAL that deny chunks of the Titan's kit. Actually as I type this, HUNTERS are countered... IF they use their melee supers.... which they never really do in PvE.... So... where? I think the fact Titans CAN get shut down like that IS an issue.
The witness being a massive damage check is a core to the problems discussed here, though ... You simply couldn't justify an entire class of character in the culminating fight of the raid because it literally brought nothing to the table. The supers were ineffective so much so that you couldn't justify the ad clear capabilities and even then, the solid enough ad clear wasn't safe because contest level doesn't really allow for melee ad clear without significant risk (and there wasn't spirit of assassin prior to the raid)
Expecting the titan number to be lower is one thing, literally the extreme majority of top teams realizing that titan was an absolute boat anchor is something else entirely
It wasn’t just for the witness. It was the whole raid. Meaning people went into the raid not even knowing what the encounters were gonna be and still didn’t choose a titan
Don't worry they will potentially buff titans... only for streamers to cry about it and titans are once again at the bottom
well yeah, gotta penalize us in PVE today for all those times we used to be able to slide into a fusion rifle shoulder charge
Salta STILL wants resilience nerfed even harder. If it gets lowered much more it'll just become a dead stat like it was before. Each classes main stats also need a rework make resilience only grant DR to titans, make mobility grant a big buff to reload speed only for hunters and make warlocks get more health from resto and cure with higher recovery.
@@judgementkazzy7172 who is that?
@@Captain-Connor-Sparrow Saltagreppo.
Mesome, you are so smart! Analyzing all of that takes hard work and skills in finding stuff like that. I think You’d be a really good game development manager because you understand game development, synergies, and uniqueness really well. As well as understanding the player base. I enjoy coming back to your channel for you and your team!
Fantastic video, my only add on I suppose would be let no backup plans give a buff based on the subclass, example being strand gives woven mail and stasis gives frost armor. Rn it will only gives the shotgun buff while you have a void OS but some other buffs are on timers which would let you take advantage of the buff longer compared to void.
NBP looks fantastic and changes color based on subclass yet won’t work on anything but void. It breaks my heart.
This thought has been running through my head before lightfall even released. People called my idea stupid but I’m very passionate about this and I don’t even know why.
I would personally love if Titans started to push more into a Tank class and pushed Warlocks into more of a Support role. There's nothing I love more than blocking/aggro-ing crazy amounts of damage as a Stronghold Titan.
warlocks deserve the capability to not just be support, as a warlock main the dynamics of many builds is something EVERY class deserves. Not really fair to basically assign warlocks to heal/buffer: everyone will just play hunter
@@shadowyblobfish9981 Have you played warlock recently? Speakers can heal and still put out crazy dps. There's no reason we can have classes have roles. 100s of other MMORPG do this.
@@shadowyblobfish9981 Battle healer? lol
@@shadowyblobfish9981 Most MMO RPGs have classes broken down into DPS, Support, and Tank. Most good MMO RPGs allow you to maybe dabble a bit in a secondary role as well. It is so clear that Bungie wanted to originally do that same thing with hunters being DPS, warlocks being support, and titans being tanks, but somewhere along they lost that. There is no issue with having each class have a main role that they fulfill best. It's called class identity, something this game has lost, and it has been worse for it.
@@shadowyblobfish9981 Someone has never familiarised themselves with the concept of the Cleric, it seems.
When subclass 2.0 came out, it destroyed my Titan's main go to class.... Void.
Being a Top Tree Sentinel main back then, being able to at LEAST have the utility of OFF/DEF super helped a LOT... THEY TOOK THAT AWAY FROM ME AND I NEVER FORGAVE BUNGO. MY SOUL FESTERS WITH YEARS OF HATRED.
That changed killed Titans' spot in the meta. That was the worst change that Bungie ever made.
the fact they still havent made void titan worth using in years is just pathetic. 3/5 titan subclasses arent worth using in any difficult content and the other 2 arent even better than the other classes
Bru, they took away the following too:
• Kills while Defensive Strike is active replenish melee energy
• War machine
• A flat health heal on melee kills (there's a void Fragment for that, but it doesn't give flat health, it just starts health regen which is absolutely dog shit
• Reduction of Overshield health from 75 to 45, in both PvE and PvP
@@SohelanthropusOh yeah I know about those but I did NOT want to list them all...
@@spynix0718It was the beginning of the end to come...
Still pissed off greatly at them nuking heart of Inmost. And now you have all the other classes running around with HIGH ability uptime... The irony is painful.
Hello Titan PvE main here, great video.
I for the most part completely agree and I know the reason why there were basically no titans on the worlds first teams, and that is because Titans in high end content are one of two subclasses Arc or Void and it was for there supers T Crash or Banner Shield/Bubble when Weapons of Light was allowed to stack with Well of Radiance, and when Bungie no longer allowed them to stack any support utility when with it.
The only other thing I would say is I feel like you missed on explaining what the flavor of Titan from your understanding/view, however script writing and recording is difficult.
Love your channel and videos, you keep doing you.
Man this was honestly my Titan wishlist for the most part. Thanks for tackling this. I hope it brings up some ideas for bungie to think about.
I remember when Titan void was mostly focused on team based defence and support. It was perfectly fine back then but Bungie changed us to be entirely melee focused making our void irrelevant in the process. Ward of dawn used to survive whatever was thrown at it. As you would expect from a behemoth of a shield. Now a hunter can teleport, instakill everyone inside without going inside themselves, teleport away and still have a third of their super remaining. How did this happen? What about weapons of light? you know, the buff that was the exact same as a well, except you had a massive dome behind you if you needed to retreat. Where did that go? ah, they removed it because they could. We had an Identity with void and it was ripped from us for seemingly no reason other than to stop the pvp hunters from complaining because they were finding winning to be slightly too hard.
I say give us back our old defensive and supportive utilities, make anyone inside a bubble completely immune to anything on the outside and buff its health back to where it should be. In the current meta these changes wont effect anything negatively except capture point based pvp game modes, which a defence super should dominate anyway. All while making void titan more relevant in pve and pvp.
Banner titan had the Identity.
Dawn bubble did not.
@RurouniHiro Ward always had the identity. The stationary, unyielding, immovable object. A bulwark against the dark. A foul shell as Misraax called it. Ward arguably had the strongest identity along with golden gun at D1 release.
@@LawAbidingCat Yes, Ward was Iconic. But as bungie redefined Titans Class identitiy away from "Rallying point" to melee-Brawler, it didnt fit anymore, hence the Buff. im convinced they would have removed Ward of Dawn by now, if it werent for its Iconic status, so they just nerfed it into irrelevancy.
@@centimanj8916 I agree! And that's what I mean, Titans should be the rally point, the unrelenting force or the immovable object. Its just unfortunate that bungie doesn't want us to do either
Thanks mister warlock man. Ever since bonk hammer got nerfed, my crayons haven't tasted the same. Maybe we'll be able to stand together again
lol
Great video! Followed as a titan main. You are on point, thanks!
For exotics the OEM needs to be buffed to it's pre-nerf state. Hunters with Knucklehead Radar can do what pre-nerf OEM did by marking targets with a cross and not just a single enemy and with only difference being that you deal increased damage on targets with no shields/broken shields instead of health regen and an overshield.
This might be plain stupid: but what if Citan's let you shoot through Ward of Dawn?
that would be great although I think being able to shoot though it should be default lol!
@@VoidCraftGaming PvP would have its issue but I dont play it so doesnt bother me. Never understood why Ward of dawn cant be shot through. Like cool Im safe now but if I step out I die, and nothing outside will die unless I step out. Same issue with towering barricade, theyre both good defence options, just at the cost of all offence
I think it’d be cool af, but perhaps with a damage penalty so Bungie isn’t as tempted to just destroy the bubble. Speaking of, I’d much rather Citan’s in general reduce damage output (even significantly) than completely fold to a light breeze.
but then it would be like a warlock well and you cant have titans being better than the others
When I think of Titans I think of D1 bubble, standing in the center of a boss room, completely safe, punching out the thrall and then leaving the bubble with OS and damage buff and killing the boss.
With well nerfed, I'd like to see Titan be steered in the class identity direction of team overshield and damage buff as well as strong melees. That's what I see in lore, it is unique to the other classes with Well gone, and it doesnt step that far away from existing abilities that have made the titan the "melee" class.
I'd like to see Banner of War be passively applied to the Titan and allow the Titan to have gun up. I'd like to see stronger benefits to planting sunspots on teammates and bosses. I'd like to see things that ONLY the Titan can bring to the table. Even if it results in just 1 of 6 raiders being a titan, that's better than 1%
I have always believed that titans should be a semi-tanky ranger class with heavy focus on overshield/damage resist, Melee and Gunplay similar to how many played them in D1
The way boss encounters are often designed also is a hindrance. Stomps, The Floor Is Lava, Immunity, and simply having a pit all keep Titans from engaging in their agreed upon identifier as well. Granted those mechanics are also in place to stop a team from pulling swords and turning a yellow bar into sashimi in 5 seconds.
ideas for light class identities.
the striker: is a mobile ass kicking class, they charge in faster than a rocket and punch everything till it dies. You are the lightning and the sound of your fist making contact is the thunder.
Defender/sentinel: You are team support, you give overshield and supress enemies. You are a noble knight protecting others with your strong shield
Hammer: artillery is king of the battlefield, its not a war crime if there not human. Use your hammers and gernades to destroy everything you see with fire and explosions.
striker: useless in endgame because melee is basically suicide
sentinel: useless because over shield has been nerfed into being made of paper
hammer: just run warlock?
Bro this ain't WoW for that silly bs
Striker needs shit ton of buffs to survivability if it is to be actually viable in true endgame
Sentinel's supers needs a whole damn rework, and Void Overshields need a huge buff
Hammers are lame and boring, needs a whole damn identity rework
Stasis needs a better melee and a better super
Strand just needs a better super (I'm fucking tired of roaming ones)
🤓
Titans melees is ass.
Thats why i use ALWAYS synthoceps on PvE.
Surviving and punching like a crazy with the exótic perk activated.
And shoulder charge everything 😊
@@Sohelanthropus I'd rather we have silly things than nothing at all
The identity I always gave titans was like a paladin from DnD. Heavy hitter that can take a lot of heavy hits. As a titan main I enjoy the clas most when playing void and being the void overwhelm guy people can rally to when they need protection, then taking that defensive power and returning it to the enemies. I want titans to feel like the commanders of a battlefield. A place your fireteam can group together and get behind knowing they're safe for some time behind a barricade, wall of stasis crystals, void overshield, etc. I don't know how to translate that to gameplay but that's what I want to feel like
I keep making comments about ideas for Titans on this video because this is the content that has been needed.
I have a few more ideas for solar and void, mainly because these were removed from the game with the introduction of the 3.0 subclasses.
Void: Give Bubble back the 35% buff. It can stay on Helm of Saint-14, although at the same time, I would want it to have another buff for a neutral game or a way to get bubble back faster somehow.
Solar: Add a new verb: Melting. This is to return Melting Point into the game, but with a few changes to make it distinct.
Melting would be found on Hammer Strike, Roaring Flames, Ember of Tempering, and a new fragment, Ember of Heat.
Melting would apply a 10% weakening debuff for 5 seconds, which, if you have 3 stacks of Tempering, gets increased to 15 seconds. If you have 3 Stacks of Roaring Flames, the debuff can be buffed to a max of 20% (an extra 5% at 1 stack, an extra 2.5 for the other 2 stacks). Roaring Flames x3 also makes every solar ability apply melting 20%. Hammer Strike would apply the base 10% but would increase to 25% with 3x Roaring Flames. Ember of Heat would allow any Melee to apply this debuff.
Hammer Strike will also now ignite targets on hit rather than kill.
The debuff % for Melting might be too strong, but I just want something like MP back because if that, along with Bubble's 35% were still here, it would still give Titans a spot in the meta game. They might not have a huge slice of pie like that piechart had for Hunters, but they would share one the size of the warlocks at the least.
Will add on to changes made to this comment below.
Edit: Added a buff to Hammer Strike I forgot about.
Edit 2: Made a change to melting, so it's not tractor cannon Strong unless you're using Hammer Strike.
Edit 3: Ember of Heat is too hot IMO and needs a cooldown. Giving it a 20-second cooldown, as well as only 15 seconds of debuff with Tempering rather than the initial 20. This cooldown also applies to the mini hammer, so unless you're refreshing Roaring Flames, you only get one use with Mini Hammer. Can still be refreshed with other Solar abilities.
Edit 4: Rather than a flat 20 second cooldown with Mini hammers, it will scale with the enemy type, and will only apply if hitting the same enemy.
For the scaling:
0 Seconds of cooldown upon hitting a minor
2 Seconds upon hitting an elite
5 seconds upon hitting an Ultra
20 seconds upon hitting a boss.
The reason for such a massive change is because red bars will probably die in one Hammer hit, Elites will probably take 2-3 hammers
Ultras like champs will take longer to kill, but can still die in that 5 second window, or longer
20 seconds for the boss is because of raid bosses.
It makes no sense for prismatic titan to have three sources of suspension with drengrs, shackle, and the transcendent grenade.
Having drengr swapped for perhaps into the fray would be better as banner would actually be way to broken especially when paired with consecration (as much as id love to have that though). And flechette would overlap with consecration to leading to one of them not working
I started playing destiny back in the beta, and i played and started destiny 1 as a hunter to fill the three man group of warlock and titan.
It wasn't until the first iron banner that my brother showed me the light of Titan. Fist of havok with helm of inner most light.
I never went back.
I play each class to enjoy all that they offer, but Titan was always my favorite.
The first in the campaign, the first in a raid...
But i despised what we became. "Crayon eaters." We were dubbed. But i remember a time. We stood as the bulwark in the first raid. The first raid artifact was a SHIELD FORGED OF A TITAN!
A shield that all stood behind. Even now, that very shield was used against the witness in the final mission of our campaign.
We could have been more than the raised fist. A protector. The front line. The tip of the spear. We could have been the line in the sand.
But we became destroyers. Given form by bungie as the melee class. that's all most Titans have ever known...
we can be more.
We must choose to be better.
It’s not possible to choose better when Bungie continues to shoehorn titans into being only melee
Be radical :
Get DR every time you punch something.
Get DR every time you use abilities.
Do more damage with heavy weapons and shotgun
Heavy ammo finder intrinsic to Titans. (special intrinsic when shotgun equiped)
Cytan intrinsic to Titan ... and inside the Bubble too. LET ME SHOOT THROUGH MY BARRIERS DAMMIT!
Bubble stays up when you die.
Or just make it so that defensive Buffs like Void Overshield, Woven Mail and Frost Armor are just more effective when aplyed to Titans. If Warlocks can have unique Interactions with Threadlings without the Need of an Aspect, then Tians can have some intrinsic benefit too
Calling titan's access to woven mail not good enough is really stupid considering thread of warding's nerf into the ground.
One thing I miss about D1 Titans that I feel that got lost was fire-support. Titan Bubble + Armamentarium was my go to for a long time, giving my team bonus damage/livability and the extra ammo was king for extra dps (god I miss running Ex Machina and Sleeper). All that plus the extra grenade for crowd control made me feel like I was keeping my fireteam safe while being able to destroy all threats as a living arsenal. Now Actium + Sweet Business (or any heavy machine gun) is the only way to experience a part of that, especially since ammo reserve mods are available to all classes and are no longer tied to specific weapon/armor perks.
I’ve been playing for 3 years, 90% of my playtime is on titan and this is the ONLY TIME I’ve fully abandoned the class. I played it for a week at the final shape, and I’ve been playing warlock since. Nothing in the titan class synergies with each other, all the titan has are neat but gimmicky and are either too strong or weak. Titans are just so unfocused when it comes to subclass verbs it’s just difficult to make a good build.
Hunter and warlock subclasses are also unique from each other, allowing hunters to play into almost any play style, while titans are all melee focused.
@@user-yw4mf6pn8dand just... worse at melee than hunter builds. Combination/gambler arc hunter gets full health/melee back every kill, throwing knife can be used basically forever, rope dart will kill a whole room and then restore itself if you ace the quicktime event, even shuriken which is the weakest causes slow x50 which is huge. Shield throw gives +10 hp *if* it hits anything at all, frenzied still just misses 90% of the time, shiver strike is still bugged to sometimes do no damage and pushes enemies out of followup range (as are every shoulder charge flavor), hammer has a massive cooldown on pickup (and does very little damage since it can't crit). Honestly I just want my defensive strike back. Just a basic melee attack that gives a full overshield on kill, no fancy activation, no bonus damage, just functional.
@@alext9550how in the world does Shield Throw not work like Rope Dart at this point? There is like no way to loop it in a satisfying way and the damage is still awful. It doesn’t even kill red bars outside of patrol half the time.
@@InsightfulAU true titans are weak and I am a titan main lol.
@@InsightfulAU What hurts the most is when you actually get a kill with its terrible tracking, you can't even keep offensive bulwark up (which to me is the core of void titan) because the over Sheild is just obliterated. It's not only that titans struggle to consistently get over shields, heck it's easier to get woven mail, it's also partly over Sheilds are just not very good at a base level. Whenever I get an oversheild I hide to get my grenade back, IT SHOULD BE THE OPPOSITE.
Hope Titian get a big shake up bc it’s felt kinda ehh for awhile. The only thing that has been really good was strand Titian, idk though maybe im wrong. But every other build feels mid on Titian and it feels so bland 🤷♂️
Titans definitely need a range super that they can use over time or in one go. A mini gun would have been awesome. Especially if the element surge would work with it.
I recognise the BGM in section 2 but can't place where from. Anyone know?
ill throw my hat into the ring for a new/reworked solar aspect, is Metooric smash
hold your charged melee to charge up a meteoric punch, storing it for your next melee attack, when you hit this melee attack, it deals additional damage, and applies a debuff that explodes twice, applying scorch to nearby enemies
The new void aspect is something I would like to see titans built around more. Get some damage reduction then deal more damage for the more you take.
Also the strand aspect where destroying a tangle grabts woven mail to allies feels like a long overdue ability that I hope we see more of.
I'd like to see it offer a bit more team utility. The general feel of the aspect is perfect as far as Titan's identity goes: jump in front your team, pop up a shield and tank for a few seconds. Quite possibly the most Titan-esque titan aspect there is besides maybe Banner of War. But at the end when it blasts the enemies, it should give teammates that are behind/near you overshields as well. If they could introduce an aggro mechanic where enemies within a certain cone in front of you are forced to attack only your shield then it would be near perfect, allowing you to actually pull a group of enemies' fire away from your team.
I always wished that class focused armor stats (mobility, resilience and recovery) had some bonus functionality for their respective class.
Hunters cause enemies to miss more often at higher levels of mobility more so when sprinting.
Titans get the old levels of damage resistance (40% at max stacks) and at max level kills refill health (not shields).
Warlock having high recovery allows some level of health regen through damage. This would need to be fairly low amount of healing to not be broken but would provide a nice bonus for a start that is often neglected.
Titan main here D1-D2. First off great video, you hit it right on the head. When I look at all classes, titan, warlock, hunter...it's easy to get frustrated when you see that the other two classes have better synergy. What's more, warlock and hunter have fantastic viable play with their specific class ability. The doge cantrip is incredibly powerful and the hunter class plays around it very well as a strike and move character. Warlock rift and space magic is also quite good. Titans are supposed to be a stalwart front line warrior and I've always felt that our barricade has always been lack luster. Not sure what I would replace it with. Perhaps barricade procs over shield matching the subclass? Towering replenishes melee/grenade, rally reloads weapon with increased reload time. I think these benefits should also be shared with allies. Also....would it be too much to ask that it requires 3 melee strikes to kill a titan in PVP, we are supposed to be tanks. What we lack in mobility and evasiveness, should be balanced in some way. Having to cause damage via weapon or punching to proc abilities generates a vulnerability. I can't be angry with the other classes having a better synergy, nor do I want them nerfed. Just fix the titan!
THANK YOU. Long time Titan main and Im glad someone was finally able to put out a video with some real thought put into it
Here's what I think Titans should be; an actual tank class. More abilities around building survivability and drawing agro instead of trying to balance damage output with survivability. Now in the current meta, survivability and damage output are currently the same thing; kill them before they kill you. But if Bungie starts introducing more mechanics that mean we can't just instantly kill everything, like requiring a certain amount of enemies in a location to unlock a door for example, then the meta shifts; actual damage resistance and buffs suddenly become much more important than just damage output. It gives Titans a crucial role on the battlefield instead of their current struggling class identity issue.
the thing with how current tank stuff with titan is setup, you get tankiness at the cost of all damage (towering barricade and ward of dawn). also these two things are completely unnecessary if you instead choose to play round cover and in high tier content stepping out of either of them gets you blown up. I think the idea of the unbreakable aspect is kind of a step in the right direction, being able to essentially counterattack, its just horrible to build around or synergise with because you wont get enough grenade uptime for it to ever be worthwhile. having access to better resists and sharing them would be a good idea (banner of war fits this super well especially with healing to keep aggro draw, shame they nerfed it). it'd be super interesting to perhaps see a mechanic in future focused around keeping and rotating aggro, but it could be something titan specialises in if they find a way to up titan survivability to really play into some kind of tank role. could even be titan can survive enough to not have to rotate aggro draw but maybe at that point its stepping too close to MMORPG kind of aggro and raid mechanics. but pulling ideas from there wouldnt be a bad idea
I slightly disagree, i should be more forcing to have a varaity of classes in a team. Means, if Hunter play like the GOD damage output, thats fine. But they should have 0 resiliance. So that every playstyle you chose should be more forcing in a direction. Allowing more individual builds, playstyles and wombo combos.
From destiny 1 to destiny 2 I won’t give up on my titan. Also if people in pvp could 1ko a bubble in pvp with a shotgun we should be able to shoot from inside to hit outside targets. *edit* Also knockout is my only form of healing for prismatic
True
What's funny as well with talking about solar is that the aspect also works with red death catalyst allowing x2 restoration to be up 90% of the time and popping a healing grenade even resets the x2 instead of changing it to x1
The other subclasses having a version of Banner of (Name) would be cool. Giving Titans the previous 40% DR tier Res would be very useful as well. Maybe make shooting through barricades innate or thats too far?
Honestly, once I got a HoIL/Star Eaters class item, things have felt pretty good with the addition of the Void Axes. Consecration for ad-clear and then Void Axe, Stasis Super, Thunder Crash for boss damage. Knockout increases Consecration damage and heals you on any melee. It's hoenstly really good.
That came out after World's First.
Most of the Day One problem was actually Still Hunt working with Nighthawk.
I got that drop I gotta try it out.
Honestly loved this video. The discussion of each subclass’ theme, the redesign of the abilities. I’d like this for the other classes if possible
does me being a top 2% raiding titan main (never played hunter or warlock since D1) count in the 1%?
Great video and recommendations!