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I've been sitting on this and absolutely agree! Despite these admiring chuckles and nervous excuses in the comments. Nobody who's prominent is all that. It's just that simple. Nobody HAS TO read a tome, and no tome is a mandatory read. Besides, older go-to authoritative chaos magick books from older "go-to" authors, on browsing them, seem a tad polemic for my taste. Like twitter rant polemics. I just wanna do some cool, effective probability stuffs. I'm no fan of the "insufferable genius" or whatever. Life is too short, and too many great choices to be had. It's actually not difficult to be pleasant. Note to self..
What was disrespectful? It just seemed like a clash of two very different personalities to me. She did seem off put by him. I wondered if he said something before the interview or his previous disagreements about Chaos Magick being under the LHP umbrella, she found offensive. I didn't really find anything he said offensive or attacking. I just felt the uncomfortably on her side. Still a great interview though.
@@LoveJungle420 The fact that you missed obvious condescension and disrespect doesn't mean it wasn't there and in abundance. This wasn't a clash of anything. This was a cringeworthy arrogant d-bag talking down to a woman regardless of what she said.
Phil Hine has been an inspiration, since the beginning of my magical journey. Condensed Chaos is the book that opened my eyes to Chaos Magick . Thank you for bringing him on. Great interview!
He's so hyper-resistant against becoming trapped into a limiting or "blind faith" belief system that he's gone to the other, almost absurdist, extreme of cynical scepticism. At least that's how this interview comes across; maybe he's more philosophically flexible and adaptive in his personal practice. Western Occultism is not, personally, my primary worldview but his book "Condensed Chaos" was helpful back when I was first experimenting with Sigil Work back in the mid 1990s. So it's cool to finally see the man behind the book. He seems to be about 40% Pragmatic...60% Contrarian purely for the sake of being Contrarian. 🤣 As long as he's having Fun, more power to him! 😎 Great interview, Angela!!! 🔥🙏🏾🔥
I'm more familiar with the Dr. Robert Wilson, Kenneth Grant, and Christopher Hyatt (who I think you also pretty much perfectly described here) brands of Chaos/Khaos; but you seem absolutely correct from what I can tell!🙏
@@neophytedubious Thankyou. Yes, I do appreciate all the contributions of writings and perspectives of them all (Hine; Wilson; Hyatt; and especially Grant). But it's very interesting to see how far some folks will take the "Nothing is true, everthing is permitted" philosophy. It is helpful in tne process of being able to critique any and all dogmas, but it becomes it's own unique prison if taken to the extreme and will prevent the mind from even being able to speculate the probability of deeper Truths that may, in fact, be valid and useful. 🙏🏾
Well that ended kinda abrupt. Intresting and fascinating discourse. One thing you can give Mr. Hine is that he clearly does not subscribe to remaining stagnant (in some circles that would be a common fundamentalist.) All i know is that there is enough to know that i do not know. I agree with Mr. Hine that there should be a clear and distinct separation of philosophy and state. Albeit in this life its only a matter of time before anything gets 'lost in the sauce' so to speak. And that there is the trap of academics...the getting comfortable part. The real trick remains question everything and question it again hence a perpetual dialectic that either exhaust you out (some minds just are not cut out for it) or keeps you engaged no matter the dynamic (something new and exciting every day with a few days of possible ho humm boring the surprise!) The plot always thickens. Always. Awesome interview Dr. Puca. Ya never disapoint! 🤘😔🎸
It seems to me that Phil Hine's beliefs and philosophies are still deeply Chaotic in nature. He has stripped away what little dogma there is and has adopted Tantra as his current belief system/practice; but his approach to magic still seems very Chaotic--albeit an extremely stripped down and simplified form. If nothing else, how he expresses himself in this video makes it clear that Chaos Magic would have been a very good fit for him at one point in time. I appreciate that he gave this interview considering it is not where his interests lie today. I also appreciate that he could have adopted a large persona and following in the Choas community, but chose to remain true to himself and his unique spiritual/magical path. He is an interesting man.
Enjoyed this interview very much. Phil Hine is one of the greats and obviously highly respected, especially within the Chaos magic realm. But in hearing he's pretty much stopped practicing Chaos so to focus on Tantra, it did leave me feeling a slightly disappointed. Being new to the practice of Chaos myself, and with everyone praising his works on the topic, I found it to be a more feasible magickal path to take,.. that is, after trying to absorb Golden Dawn style magick or Kabbalah for a year or so. Condensed Chaos is a gem in my opinion. With little to no dogmatic rules to discourage, a student can jump right in and create sigils and servitors so to practice, practice, practice. I remember rock guitarist Joe Walsh telling new musicians to get out of the bedroom/basement and get some real life experience playing in front of people. Otherwise it probably won't happen. Anyway, I loving Phil's book as well as new and past interviews.. Very inspiring indeed. Cheers!
What makes him so great? I've met both famed and no-names with more respect, more wisdom, more rapport, more unique views, more coherence... I am happy to change my views but I have never once gotten his appeal
Interesting interview. Hines irreverent and abrupt personality certainly comes across as much here as it does in his writings on chaos magick. I personally prefer Peter Carroll's more scientific perspective, Hine's thinking comes from a different place, perhaps more instinctive. It's important to me to have an understanding of how magick works for me to have belief in it...
Phil's rather abrupt mannerisms and strange accent, make me feel certain that our paths have crossed. No idea when, as I've never been a practising magician, but are around the same age and have stomped around similar parts of the UK. Is this simply my empathy which is giving me this feeling about him?
the amount of disrespect he showed you, dozing off, wow, just wow. hopefully your future guests are more respectful, and quite frankly more interesting.
Interesting interview I feel like for this to have happened to need to be a certain level of unpolarized like you are as always love your content if I agree with the content or not always happy to see new perspectives
Magick/Will/Earth = Imagination/Future Visual/Solar + Feeling/Present Kinesthetic/Lunar. All three are represented in the Pyramid & the glyph of Hermes Trismegistus Magick & Politics Mix & Magick & Politics don't Mix, both statements are true for some people.
Yes. It even intersects with timing of popularization of post-structuralist thought, especially French schools. Maybe the connection isn't direct, but the zeitgeist behind it definitively some structural skepticism of absolutes, narratives and fixed frameworks and methodologies. Some of the people may have somewhat been influenced by these philosophies, but I wouldn't stretch things. Some of the skepticisms around magical ontologies and epistemologies were already in place by WWII or little bit later, which was the golden age of psychologization of magic. Not to mention also a French continental precursor to post-structuralism in late existentialism. The whole skeptical thing in magical experimentation began really with Crowley who tried to play both teams: a magician, biased, involved, drama-filled and dispassionate scientist just observing, noting and deconstructing things into various other directions for later assembly. Being somewhat influenced by Thelema myself, I would say in Thelemic lingo that this is just a expression of "New Aeon" age in which old transcendentalist certainty, vertical absolutes, eternal stories and absolute morality/authority is put under the question and personal agency and expression given primacy instead. Ontology and epistemology became much more immanent, more this-worldly, more affirmative and experimental in contrast to magick and occult of the old.
I am going to be honest, he didn’t sound like a practitioner or magician… or even interested in a whole lot..curmudgeonly yes.. I am getting salty in my old… I can understand.. dismissive and skeptical seem different to me… good job Dr. Puca… your classy and smart.
He won't. There's a reason Robert Anton Wilson and many others drifted away. He never wanted to and never will. If he does not like somethint it aint worth it. He's paradoxically superstitions because of this... and a rude lunatic.
Well he was disrespectful. Especially the part when you were explaining about you keeping the contents of this channel purely for exploring esoteric practice and he said HE DOZED OFF!!
Thank you for this interview. As a English speaker I would not mind if you spoke in your native language and had subtitles. I feel bad for forcing such great minds to speak through my horrible Anglo tongue!
Phil Hine, the guest, speaks no other language, I don't think. That wouldn't make sense. Dr Angela Puca speaks English clearly. Why is that an issue or problem to you? Perhaps it's Italian that she speaks? But why turn it into a subtitled language course? And if it's in your native or in your own case, only language you speak, why not learn others so you're not stuck with YOUR horrible tongue. Barely speak it well as it is. Correction, it's "as AN* English speaker" and not as you have written there, not "as A English speaker.." You can get autocorrect to help in the meanwhile. So you're not going to be forcing anyone to do anything they're not going to, while you want them to do your bidding for your entertainment. Improve your grammar first.
Magic can be fun. The Self-Deification is terribly popular as a platform from which to engage in the Judgement of others, not to mention the monetisation of magic. An interesting emergence in Modern Magic. This is mostly psychological & an anathema to actual Magic. 🕉
Although I value the focus on opening the accessibility of scholarship &diversitynof viewpoints, I would advise that there is a need to be confrontational to push back on charlatans, crackpots, pseudointellectuals, & anyone who is unwilling to epistemically justifytheir claims.
What kind of Author would waste his and the hosts time by being a total knob then say be sure to buy my books and bye now, click. He wasn't worth your time DR. Angela, so disrespectful and he didn't bring anything other than quear magic. Which he said is new but literally godess Ananna worship back in Samaria included men, women, gay, trans, Unics, and any other form of human. This interview made you come out as wise and educated, and as a self professed practitioner he did not come across well at all.
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Dr A deserves more respect from the interviewee.
You handled yourself with a stellar amount of grace and dignity as always
I've been sitting on this and absolutely agree! Despite these admiring chuckles and nervous excuses in the comments. Nobody who's prominent is all that. It's just that simple. Nobody HAS TO read a tome, and no tome is a mandatory read. Besides, older go-to authoritative chaos magick books from older "go-to" authors, on browsing them, seem a tad polemic for my taste. Like twitter rant polemics. I just wanna do some cool, effective probability stuffs. I'm no fan of the "insufferable genius" or whatever. Life is too short, and too many great choices to be had. It's actually not difficult to be pleasant. Note to self..
What was disrespectful? It just seemed like a clash of two very different personalities to me. She did seem off put by him. I wondered if he said something before the interview or his previous disagreements about Chaos Magick being under the LHP umbrella, she found offensive. I didn't really find anything he said offensive or attacking. I just felt the uncomfortably on her side. Still a great interview though.
@@LoveJungle420
The fact that you missed obvious condescension and disrespect doesn't mean it wasn't there and in abundance.
This wasn't a clash of anything.
This was a cringeworthy arrogant d-bag talking down to a woman regardless of what she said.
The curated transcript of this interview is now available at www.innersymposium.study/?p=6049
Thanks Dr. Puca!
I really appreciate your… going through the tough work to get this information out to us masses! 💜💜💜
Phil Hine has been an inspiration, since the beginning of my magical journey. Condensed Chaos is the book that opened my eyes to Chaos Magick . Thank you for bringing him on. Great interview!
He's so hyper-resistant against becoming trapped into a limiting or "blind faith" belief system that he's gone to the other, almost absurdist, extreme of cynical scepticism. At least that's how this interview comes across; maybe he's more philosophically flexible and adaptive in his personal practice. Western Occultism is not, personally, my primary worldview but his book "Condensed Chaos" was helpful back when I was first experimenting with Sigil Work back in the mid 1990s. So it's cool to finally see the man behind the book. He seems to be about 40% Pragmatic...60% Contrarian purely for the sake of being Contrarian. 🤣 As long as he's having Fun, more power to him! 😎 Great interview, Angela!!! 🔥🙏🏾🔥
I'm more familiar with the Dr. Robert Wilson, Kenneth Grant, and Christopher Hyatt (who I think you also pretty much perfectly described here) brands of Chaos/Khaos; but you seem absolutely correct from what I can tell!🙏
@@neophytedubious Thankyou. Yes, I do appreciate all the contributions of writings and perspectives of them all (Hine; Wilson; Hyatt; and especially Grant). But it's very interesting to see how far some folks will take the "Nothing is true, everthing is permitted" philosophy. It is helpful in tne process of being able to critique any and all dogmas, but it becomes it's own unique prison if taken to the extreme and will prevent the mind from even being able to speculate the probability of deeper Truths that may, in fact, be valid and useful. 🙏🏾
"...Stick pins in a doll of Rishi Sunak" ahahahah. 🤣👌 Classic Phil.
I appreciate the in depth scholarly approach of Dr Angela Puca on various fascinating esoteric topics! 🎉
This was my favorite interview to date. I enjoyed his iconoclastic spontaneity.
Well that ended kinda abrupt. Intresting and fascinating discourse. One thing you can give Mr. Hine is that he clearly does not subscribe to remaining stagnant (in some circles that would be a common fundamentalist.) All i know is that there is enough to know that i do not know. I agree with Mr. Hine that there should be a clear and distinct separation of philosophy and state. Albeit in this life its only a matter of time before anything gets 'lost in the sauce' so to speak. And that there is the trap of academics...the getting comfortable part. The real trick remains question everything and question it again hence a perpetual dialectic that either exhaust you out (some minds just are not cut out for it) or keeps you engaged no matter the dynamic (something new and exciting every day with a few days of possible ho humm boring the surprise!) The plot always thickens. Always. Awesome interview Dr. Puca. Ya never disapoint! 🤘😔🎸
Stagnant*...
@@genghisgalahad8465 Thank you! ✌️🙂
@@samiam3297 separation*
@@samiam3297 philosophy*, wear*
@@genghisgalahad8465 again.. Thank you. ✌️🙂
Perhaps you can book Dr. Gregory Shaw to discuss his new book Hellenic Tantra.
It seems to me that Phil Hine's beliefs and philosophies are still deeply Chaotic in nature. He has stripped away what little dogma there is and has adopted Tantra as his current belief system/practice; but his approach to magic still seems very Chaotic--albeit an extremely stripped down and simplified form. If nothing else, how he expresses himself in this video makes it clear that Chaos Magic would have been a very good fit for him at one point in time. I appreciate that he gave this interview considering it is not where his interests lie today. I also appreciate that he could have adopted a large persona and following in the Choas community, but chose to remain true to himself and his unique spiritual/magical path. He is an interesting man.
Enjoyed this interview very much. Phil Hine is one of the greats and obviously highly respected, especially within the Chaos magic realm. But in hearing he's pretty much stopped practicing Chaos so to focus on Tantra, it did leave me feeling a slightly disappointed.
Being new to the practice of Chaos myself, and with everyone praising his works on the topic, I found it to be a more feasible magickal path to take,.. that is, after trying to absorb Golden Dawn style magick or Kabbalah for a year or so. Condensed Chaos is a gem in my opinion. With little to no dogmatic rules to discourage, a student can jump right in and create sigils and servitors so to practice, practice, practice. I remember rock guitarist Joe Walsh telling new musicians to get out of the bedroom/basement and get some real life experience playing in front of people. Otherwise it probably won't happen.
Anyway, I loving Phil's book as well as new and past interviews.. Very inspiring indeed. Cheers!
What makes him so great? I've met both famed and no-names with more respect, more wisdom, more rapport, more unique views, more coherence... I am happy to change my views but I have never once gotten his appeal
Can't believed I missed this. I was planning to watch it and only just realised it already happened.
Nice interview thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed it
They certainly were interesting times, Although Leeds was a long way to hitch I really liked the first chaos symp. 😅
And we need for sure to queer both Chaos magic and Tantra!!
Best interview. Thank you
Wow what an interview!
Thx for this informative session. I really need more Magic in my life
Not a easy interview. Well done, Doc. Waiting for more interview with authors and scholars of the topic.
Nice informative interview. Two thumbs up! Thank you Angela.
great interview
Oh I'm so going to watch this!!!
His hair is quite epic….I love it ..
Thank you both on a very interesting conversation.
Interesting interview. Hines irreverent and abrupt personality certainly comes across as much here as it does in his writings on chaos magick. I personally prefer Peter Carroll's more scientific perspective, Hine's thinking comes from a different place, perhaps more instinctive. It's important to me to have an understanding of how magick works for me to have belief in it...
Wow, his works were instrumental to creating my own practice
What have you read since which has topped it? I find his works some of the worst... so I am curious (in good faith) to hear you out
about time for an interview of this nature
nice interview pls do ramsey dukes !!
Interesting interview. I must say it kept me engaged....
Phil's rather abrupt mannerisms and strange accent, make me feel certain that our paths have crossed. No idea when, as I've never been a practising magician, but are around the same age and have stomped around similar parts of the UK. Is this simply my empathy which is giving me this feeling about him?
Wow, Phil Hine himself! What a find! Shame he dozed off at the end, but he is getting on a bit so I guess he needs a nap now and again...
I wonder who’s next. Ramsey Dukes? 🙂
the amount of disrespect he showed you, dozing off, wow, just wow. hopefully your future guests are more respectful, and quite frankly more interesting.
Yeah. Pretty much lost all of my respect for Hine after watching this interview.
Ty
Sophia
😃 Thank you, Phil and Angela, for this historical interview! 😃
that was interesting
Interesting interview I feel like for this to have happened to need to be a certain level of unpolarized like you are as always love your content if I agree with the content or not always happy to see new perspectives
Magick/Will/Earth = Imagination/Future Visual/Solar + Feeling/Present Kinesthetic/Lunar. All three are represented in the Pyramid & the glyph of Hermes Trismegistus
Magick & Politics Mix & Magick & Politics don't Mix, both statements are true for some people.
So chaos magick is post modernism for magick?
Yes. It even intersects with timing of popularization of post-structuralist thought, especially French schools. Maybe the connection isn't direct, but the zeitgeist behind it definitively some structural skepticism of absolutes, narratives and fixed frameworks and methodologies. Some of the people may have somewhat been influenced by these philosophies, but I wouldn't stretch things. Some of the skepticisms around magical ontologies and epistemologies were already in place by WWII or little bit later, which was the golden age of psychologization of magic. Not to mention also a French continental precursor to post-structuralism in late existentialism.
The whole skeptical thing in magical experimentation began really with Crowley who tried to play both teams: a magician, biased, involved, drama-filled and dispassionate scientist just observing, noting and deconstructing things into various other directions for later assembly.
Being somewhat influenced by Thelema myself, I would say in Thelemic lingo that this is just a expression of "New Aeon" age in which old transcendentalist certainty, vertical absolutes, eternal stories and absolute morality/authority is put under the question and personal agency and expression given primacy instead. Ontology and epistemology became much more immanent, more this-worldly, more affirmative and experimental in contrast to magick and occult of the old.
I tend to agree with Phil that chaos magick is not a left hand path.
I am going to be honest, he didn’t sound like a practitioner or magician… or even interested in a whole lot..curmudgeonly yes.. I am getting salty in my old… I can understand.. dismissive and skeptical seem different to me… good job Dr. Puca… your classy and smart.
Majik
In my personal opinion, we should call chaos magic probabilistic magic, or modern magical theory. As Hine says: is magic without the occultism.
Stimulating interview
Imprint the sky when u die
Lost all respect for Hine after watching this. He needs to grow up.
He won't. There's a reason Robert Anton Wilson and many others drifted away. He never wanted to and never will. If he does not like somethint it aint worth it. He's paradoxically superstitions because of this... and a rude lunatic.
Well he was disrespectful. Especially the part when you were explaining about you keeping the contents of this channel purely for exploring esoteric practice and he said HE DOZED OFF!!
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I am the vine
I am the serpent
🧞♂️🌐🌏🌐🧞♀️
🧞♀️🌐🌏🌐🧞♂️
🤍❤️🔥🖤
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🖤❤️🔥🤍
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Thank you for this interview. As a English speaker I would not mind if you spoke in your native language and had subtitles. I feel bad for forcing such great minds to speak through my horrible Anglo tongue!
Phil Hine, the guest, speaks no other language, I don't think. That wouldn't make sense. Dr Angela Puca speaks English clearly. Why is that an issue or problem to you? Perhaps it's Italian that she speaks? But why turn it into a subtitled language course? And if it's in your native or in your own case, only language you speak, why not learn others so you're not stuck with YOUR horrible tongue. Barely speak it well as it is. Correction, it's "as AN* English speaker" and not as you have written there, not "as A English speaker.." You can get autocorrect to help in the meanwhile. So you're not going to be forcing anyone to do anything they're not going to, while you want them to do your bidding for your entertainment. Improve your grammar first.
👇➕️👆
🐓🐍
Are you ok?
I am the j am
Mumbo Jumbo
Are you new to this channel?
@@roderickcortez138it's a good channel she does a great job!
@@angelorosini4326yep she does great, its Hine who has nothing of substance to say
Magic can be fun. The Self-Deification is terribly popular as a platform from which to engage in the Judgement of others, not to mention the monetisation of magic. An interesting emergence in Modern Magic. This is mostly psychological & an anathema to actual Magic. 🕉
Although I value the focus on opening the accessibility of scholarship &diversitynof viewpoints, I would advise that there is a need to be confrontational to push back on charlatans, crackpots, pseudointellectuals, & anyone who is unwilling to epistemically justifytheir claims.
👁👶👁
What kind of Author would waste his and the hosts time by being a total knob then say be sure to buy my books and bye now, click. He wasn't worth your time DR. Angela, so disrespectful and he didn't bring anything other than quear magic. Which he said is new but literally godess Ananna worship back in Samaria included men, women, gay, trans, Unics, and any other form of human. This interview made you come out as wise and educated, and as a self professed practitioner he did not come across well at all.
Seriously. Was Hine just in a bad mood on this day? I've seen other interviews with him and he didn't act like this.
I greatly dislike this guest of yours. He was a waste of time.
"LEFT HAND PATH" is an oxymoron. If you think you understand, do you understand, understanding outside of "Your-Self?
Are you referring to modern Left Hand Path or tradition Eastern Vamamarga?
Non Hindu should not discuss Tantra. Delete your video thank you.
🤣
For your own safety and wellbeing, of course.
I totally agree. There is much of abrahamic conditioning involved. It's like teaching a dog how to meow. 🙂
Surely both Hindu and Tantra are Colonialist concepts with no meaning within the traditions of south and southeast Asia? Then what of Mahayana?
@@TheMagicofJava thanks for commenting. This is the type of thing I was foreseeing. Now they just perceive all of this as a Western only thing.