131 - Japan Destroys Allied Armada in Biggest Naval Battle in Decades - WW2 - February 27, 1942
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- čas přidán 26. 02. 2021
- The Japanese are advancing in the Dutch East Indies and Burma, brushing aside defenders, but their biggest victory this week is at sea, when they not only brush aside the ABDA Fleet, but literally wipe it out of existence. Meanwhile Italian and Germans submarines are patrolling the Caribbean, sinking any Allied merchant shipping they find. It is yet another week of Axis successes.
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Between 2 Wars: • Between 2 Wars
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Written and Hosted by: Indy Neidell
Director: Astrid Deinhard
Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson
Executive Producers: Astrid Deinhard, Indy Neidell, Spartacus Olsson, Bodo Rittenauer
Creative Producer: Maria Kyhle
Post-Production Director: Wieke Kapteijns
Research by: Indy Neidell
Edited by: Iryna Dulka
Sound design: Marek Kamiński
Map animations: Eastory ( / eastory )
Colorizations by:
- Mikołaj Uchman
- Norman Stewart - oldtimesincolor.blogspot.com/
Sources:
- National Portrait Gallery
- IWM: H 17365, A_238, CB(OPS) 5008
Soundtracks from the Epidemic Sound:
- Rannar Sillard - Easy Target
- Howard Harper-Barnes- Underlying Truth
- Jo Wandrini - Dragon King
- Fabien Tell - Last Point of Safe Return
- Wendel Scherer - Out the Window
- Reynard Seidel - Rush of Blood
- Brightarm Orchestra - On the Edge of Change
- Craft Case - Secret Cargo
- Phoenix Tail - At the Front
- Johan Hynynen - Dark Beginning
- Wendel Scherer - Growing Doubt
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A TimeGhost chronological documentary produced by OnLion Entertainment GmbH.
This is another week of military successes by the Axis Powers, by land and by sea. If you'd like to learn more about war time life for civilians, check out the playlist for our subseries, ""On the Homefront""- right here: czcams.com/play/PLsIk0qF0R1j5Ug9lCaxygenFf3lzuGXap.html
For more coverage on the war in general, we follow it day by day over on Instagram, so don't miss that either: instagram.com/ww2_day_by_day/
nice, the canadian flag looks better now we can see the shield on the front
It's been a long time since the last On The Home Front...
Damnit I am supposed to be learning moar Russian.
If you ever do an alternative history again maybe the one where MacArthur stays in the Phillipines to lead a guerilla insurgency against Japan?
What were the carlists doing during ww2?
FDR talking about Japan and Germany as if Italy is not part of the tripartite. I guess Italy was really not seen as a threat
They really were not. Italy was not prepared industrially, economically and militarily to fight a war of major powers.
Could also guess that Italy wasn't seen as a much of threat like Japan and Germany to the domestic audience. Those two evoke emotion (Pearl, U-boats, WWI) meanwhile Italian affairs were quite detached from the American daily life. Good propaganda to concentrate on only two and not to confuse people with the mild third.
@@PalleRasmussen Plus Italy had almost its entire military tied up in Africa. They couldn't project power the way the Germans and Japanese could.
@@Raskolnikov70 their entire military was much smaller than Germany's and Japan's. Italy was simply not that industrialised and advanced a nation. More like Romania than Germany and Britain. Musso really screwed over his people by launching them into the war...
If Greece had no problem handling Italy, why would the US see the Italians as a threat?
The Battle of the Java Sea is an often overlooked naval battle that is somewhat overshadowed by larger and more well known naval battles in 1942. This naval battle just shows how deadly the Imperial Japanese Navy were with the Type 93 Long Lance torpedo (especially in comparison with the often faulty, early version Mark 14 torpedo of the United States Navy).
If by ''often'' you mean almost always failing, yes it shows lol
They now have total naval supremacy in the waters off South East Asia.
Interesting fact though i just read Captain Tameichi Hara's memoir and he said that in that battle the Japanese commited countless blunders and he believed that they only won because the Allies out-blunder them.
Edit: Also Hara criticized Takagi for being too cautious and firing outside maximum effective range. Hara's gunnery officer actually scorned Takagi saying "He's a submariner, and doesn't know how to use guns"
Source: Japanese Destroyer Captain page 58.
I recall that the ABDA fleet landed all their spotter planes in anticipation of a sea battle. Certainly this left them blind whereas the Japanese made excellent use of theirs. Plus of course, their superior night-fighting skills.
@@principalityofbelka6310 that often appears to be the case in warfare
@@principalityofbelka6310 that puts me in mind of a turn of phrase about Tsushima in 1905 where "a Japanese squadron, which did nothing seriously wrong, destroyed a Russian squadron that did absolutely nothing right."
I started watching WW2 Week by Week specifically because I knew next to nothing about the East Asian and Pacific Theatres. "Next to nothing", meaning: yadda yadda yadda, Pearl Harbor, yadda yadda yadda, Midway, yadda yadda yadda, Hiroshima & Nagasaki. I wanted to learn more about that side of the war and I am more than thankful for all the content and the way you present it. Great job, Timeghost Crew!
Thanks!
Same.
Hey, I've studied WWII in depth in college and I'm still learning stuff I never knew every episode. I love how this channel doesn't just recite facts as they happen, but they really dig into the reasons why they happened the way they did. It gives the viewers a much deeper understanding of the war as a whole.
@@Raskolnikov70 Yeah, the chronological coverage of events really adds to it. I'm Polish-German, went to school in Poland. Our history classes were very Polish-/European-centred. Also, the teachers took an approach which you aptly described as "just reciting facts as they happened", which to me never seemed like the right to do. Imho, it makes much more sense to study the reasons of all this bloodshed in order to prevent it from happening again.
True if one learned about these theaters from Hollywood,as many of us did, you thought that the Pacific theater was just Japan and the US and that the war was one not only just by the US but by the USMC and only with the aid of John Wayne. The coverage of the CBI theater is most informative to me
"Yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!"-German U boat crews in the Carribean.
@@0_1_2 its called a joke sweetie
Royal Navy: not again.
@@ggsay1687 right?
@@0_1_2 "Oooooooo-oooooooh, sweeet chil' oh' miiiii-iiiine" - Kaiser Wilhelm, 1914 B.C.E.
@@0_1_2 you must be fun to be around
Japan is just running wild right now. It's hard to see a way they can be stopped at this point.
"Hey Japan! Dont go to Midway the US is waiting for you!"
"Oh god oh fuck Japan is wearing airpods he cant hear us"
Great Britain better keep Warspite and the armored carriers safe from the Kido Butai's range. Akagi's leading the carnage all along.
They need to expand as much as they can, while they can, and consolidate their gains. Because eventually the US will outproduce them on ships and weapons.
They'll run out of luck sooner or later
@@bangscutter Yep, we're still in that 6-month honeymoon period that the Japanese knew they had before the allied countries got their stuff together. They know they're on a limited schedule and have to push ahead and gain as much ground as they can before the inevitable happens.
What was the Allied public told about the disaster in the Java Sea at the time? How censored was “bad” war news?
Thank you for another brilliantly done episode.
That’s a great question!
Generally, tactically important information (how many ships lost and where they fought) wasn’t disclosed for 2-3 months so that the enemy couldn’t make decisions based on that information.
@@ColinPacker What country are you talking about?, like, where did she live at the time...
I need to ask; when are we going to see the Time Ghost merch:
John's Curtains
Lmao
Yeah
With his eyes lol
I hope there is a tie available.
The loss of Perth really shook Australia. Just the earlier November we lost Sydney and soon we will lose Canberra. That's half of all of our major surface combatants. These losses very much stung.
Let's not forget Darwin being bombed and all the troops captured or killed in Singapore just before this.
I recently learned that Houston and Perth are sister cities which is super cool and makes sense given how famous the two are together in both countries.
Java Sea: welcome to the wonderful world of the Long Lance torpedo
Several Type 93s in fact detonated prematurely before striking any Allied vessels. Even as vaunted as the Long Lance were, they still weren’t completely infallible.
Also said Long Lance uses oxygen which while giving it unbelievable long range and low visibility, it makes it extra explosive. 2 years from now the Japanese will learn what just one hit from a 5 inch gun coming from an escort carrier would do to a bunch of Long Lance torpedoes stacked together.
@@ultramanJR They'll get that lesson much sooner than that, I think.
Mogami : ....
The Japanese didn't need those torpedoes the crappy U.S. torps were sinking their own subs. Navy ordinance: there's nothing wrong with our torps you guys don't know how to use them!
It’s really just one thing after another for the Allies right now.
There is a Dutch national myth of sorts that Doorman signaled “I am attacking, following me” to his squadron during the battle. This was seen as very gallant. I even remember hearing it in school. But as you might have guessed from Indy not mentioning it, there are serious doubts whether it happened.
Great story though.
At school I was taught that he signaled at the start of the battle: "all ships follow me". Regardless he went down with the ship like honour dictates.
@@yorick6035 Fun fact I recently learned: the "going down with your ship" actually only became commonplace on commercial ships during the 19th century, right after the "women and children first" also became commonplace. Since those captains had a moral obligation to keep the passengers and crew safe, they stayed on board until they were pretty much the last to leave a sunken ship.
Naval officers however very rarely actually went down with their ship historically speaking. An experienced admiral, like a general on land, was often a thousand times more valuable than the people working under them. So they often stayed on the damaged ship and surrendered when possible, but if the ship was sinking too fast they would just leave with the first boat and often even just continued command from the next best ship. Of course, after the 19th century it became more honorable to not do so, but still going down with the ship was not as common as you'd expect from hearing it being said in every media.
If I remember correctly, one of the ships was turning around to escort one of the damaged ones. Due to misunderstandings, the whole fleet started to follow them, causing Doorman to signal they should be following him. For some reason the myth came into being that Doorman was going to charge the Japanese fleet and that the signal was to tell the fleet to follow him in.
@@Moonhermit- that makes sense to me. Survive to fight another day seems more logical, but going down makes for a better story.
The issue arose when Exceter was hit and forced to move out of the line, the rest of the line followed Exceter instead of De Ruyter. The myth comes from a loose translation of the signal sent by him, "All ships - follow me" to remedy the confusion.
Lee: "General Pickett, sir... you must look to your division."
Pickett: "General Lee... I _have_ no division."
Poor Pickett.
Ill timed Shad bake aside, the guy's name gets plastered onto a disaster that wasn't his doing. It wasn't *his* charge, he was merely one general among a few that were ordered to make the attack. Historians have taken to calling it the Pickett-Pettigrew-Trimble charge instead. Lee's Folly would probably been a more appropriate name for it.
When you run,an open field into cannon fire,it ruins evrybodies day
I would love to see a special on Conrad Helfrich, also known as Ship a day Helfrich, the Dutch admiral in control of Dutch submarines in the south west pacific. He was, according to other commanders in the theater, too aggressive; but sank more Japanese ships in the early war period than the US and British combined.
That picture of the Australian prime minister is not very flattering i must say :D great episode once again btw!
I think he is just cross eyed so he always looked this weird.
He's keeping one eye on the Japanese and one on the Germans.
Like we say in Brazil, he's got an eye on the Cat and another on the Fish hahaha
Curtin had a lazy eye, all his pictures look like that
@@brockbayley5279 - His wife always complained bitterly about his "roving eye".
As did his 3 misstresses AND his secretary!!
My grandad was a wireless operator in Burma. I'm pretty sure this is around the point in the timeline he was captured, not long at all since he got into the country having previously spent the war in Scotland and then Johannesburg. He wouldn't be released until the very end of the war and what exactly happened to him has no place in this comments section. I remember him sitting me down and giving me a little talking to about war when I was perhaps 13 or 14 years old. Have been a pacifist ever since that talk. Is horrible what humans can do to each other.
Thankyou for your time, effort and skill in making these videos. If people forget about the past they'll never learn from it.
I remember the head of my school when I was in 5th grade talking about war. There is no glory. Just pain and suffering. Deep sorrow. For both sides.
Thank you for sharing that with us Dan, we're glad you enjoy our content so much.
My wife's uncle served on the USS Houston during the battle of the Java Sea. He survived but he never talked to anyone about his survival or capture. From what I read in history books, I think I understand.
I met several of the survivors of HMAS Perth 1 and have read several of the books. (A long way from Silver Creek, and The bells of Sunda Straight) By this time HMAS Perth was a veteran of the Atlantic and Mediterranean campaigns, surviving several battles with the Italians and Germans, especially the Luftwaffe. ABDA command had language, experience, and logistics obstacles, the fleet was thrown together out of necessity. The Japanese ships had superior aerial reconnaissance and experience working with the rest of the IJN fleet.
Ship of Ghost by James D. Hornfischer is an excellent book on the USS Houston and the fate of her crew.
There is memorial in the grounds of the Shrine of Remembrance in Melbourne to the USS Houston, the only one to a foreign power. It sits along side one to HMAS Perth which went down with the Houston.
@@blueycarlton Thanks. I'll pass the word to his family. I know his youngest daughter's family were planning to visit Down Under before the pandemic hit. I'm sure they would love to visit the site. Thanks again.
@@old-moose You can google the plaque of USS Houston Memorial.
The Shrine was built to remember the sacrifice of Victoria's (and the country's) soldiers, sailors and airmen in WW1
Famous WW1 Gen. Sir John Monash pushed for the building of the Shrine which at the time, during the Great Depression, was quite controversial.
At the time of its completion in the 1934 the Shrine was the world's largest granite building.
Perhaps this may have been too minor to be mentioned (or maybe it might feature in the Instagram day to day of the channel), but on Feb 25 1942, the "Battle of Los Angeles" occurs. Meteorological balloons are mistaken during the night for Japanese warplanes over the skies of Los Angeles, and in confusion, a hail of anti-aircraft fire lits up the skies. In the end, nothing in the sky is hit but some buildings and vehicles were hit by shell splinters and a few people are indirectly killed from car accidents and panic anxiety attacks.
They have a post on the subject on the TimeGhostTV channel, and the rest of the week there are other examples of war scares throughout history
Huh, didn't realize we had our own version of the Battle of Karánsebes here in the US. Look that one up if you want a laugh.
There is a book on the pacific war I read many years ago that had a chapter entitled “The Short Unhappy Life of ABDA Command”.
The Eagle Against the Sun! A very good general history as I recall.
When your enemy tells you they know the day you're going to attack, only an incompetent commissar would think to attack.
Also of note: IIRC, a few of the Japanese destroyers actually picked up survivors from HMS Exeter and the two destroyers. Some of said prisoners would survive the war.
*monumentally* incompetent commissar
The old "double-double-double-bluff"....
You wanna attack
They know you wanna attack
They tell you they know you're gonna attack
Why would they do that?
To try and convince you not to attack
Why would they say that?
Because they're not ready to defend?
If they think you're gonna attack and tell you so you don't wanna attack, that's why you attack because they're not ready for the attack or else they wouldn't tell you they know when you'll attack
@@sirllamaiii9708 Yes, we are as confused as you ...
@@sirllamaiii9708 Spoken like a true commissar. The Big Boss likes how you think!
One thing that seems a reoccurring theme looking at military history, growing confidence often heads to some of the worst defeats.
That and stretching lines leads to them snapping back.
Yet in contrast, the growing American air power over time in the east would increase confidence to the point where they were absolutely demoliishing the Japanese air force, as evidenced in the turkey shoot at the Marianas. Confidence also helped the nazis during the early years of the war, too; when they essentially beat technically and numerically superior French forces to seize the continent.
@@d.e.b.b5788 ...on the Soviet side it could be argued that it saved Moscow in one of the more decisive moments of the war. Contrary to popular belief the Soviets did not in fact have an overwhelming advantage at this point in men or materiel, but were rather evenly matched with their opponent. Nevertheless going on the offensive robbed the Germans of the initiative and struck a decisive blow that sent them reeling.
@@d.e.b.b5788 And American air-power hits a cave in some middle-east conflict, a few die and the enemy rejoices thinking about all the money the U.S. wasted. They can't fathom that cost was nothing to the U.S. It actually encourages the enemy further. Then when ground troops put boots down confidently, they can't fathom why the enemy is still so resistant.
'Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.'
I like how they still have the portrait of hotzendorf on the wall
With the fall of Singapore, the Japanese are now able to bring in the experienced 18th Division from Malaya into Burma. If Java falls, then the 56th Division would also be freed up to join the 18th Division in Burma too. This just makes it one more step harder for the British to make a stand in Burma, which is not helped by friendly fire incidents from their own side causing yet more delays and a lot of the Burmese populace led under Aung San rising up against the British.
We'll have to dig in.
From a strategic perspective, what is more important for the japanese: Australia or India?
@@AlanDeAnda1 In my opinion, I would argue that India would be a higher priority for Japan. The Japanese invasions of India in the later years of the war simply illustrates that. There was a higher chance that some of the local Indian native population might rise up against the British or join the Japanese backed Indian National Army. Partly it would be easier for the Germans and Japanese to link up if India was taken.
The Japanese are very unlikely to find any local support in Australia on the other hand. In fact, they may find resistance stronger than expected with the United States Navy possibly coming in to defend Australia should such attacks happen. Prime Minister Hideki Tojo was also actually opposed to such an attempt due to the logistical problems such an invasion would face.
@@gunman47 Just trying to get forces down to the important parts of Australia would be a nightmare, and Japanese soldiers had absolutely no experience of desert warfare, compared to plenty of jungle warfare experience.
@@AlanDeAnda1 Australia. Britain was too heavily committed in Europe to be a serious threat to Japan with Malaya, Singapore, and Burma in Japanese hands, whereas even if they were able to knock India and the UK entirely out of the war the Japanese would have no way to stop the US offensive across the Pacific which would rely very heavily on Australia as a base.
My high school buddy's father got to witness the Battle of the Java See 1st hand. (He got wet.) He had an interesting war time. He was a member of the Danish King's personal military honor guard and protection when the Nazis rolled over Denmark. He sailed, ultimately, to Iceland -- a Danish possession. This is where he got to shake Churchill's hand, for Winnie was returning from meeting FDR and the Four Freedoms speech. Due to Nazi reprisal risk, the Danish military presence ( the King's ONE platoon ) was edited out of the Allied movie reels. But, it was the only unit that got to shake Winnies hand, one-by-one. Instead, the video highlighted the refugee DUTCH military now in Iceland. ( That's another crazy story.) And with that, Lunding was folded into the Dutch war machine -- and off to the Dutch East Indies he went -- just in time to see the Dutch fleet, et. al. sunk. ( He was a good swimmer and when I knew him he was a weekend sailor in San Francisco bay.) By that time he'd decided to shift combatants AGAIN. He jumped to the USN, (IIRC, he escaped from Java courtesy of the USN, did I mention that he was multilingual? ) and never looked back -- much. In all of this he ended up being one of the vary rare combatants to see war first hand from 1940 to 1945 and in Europe and the Pacific. He described the Battle of the Java See the worst military debacle one could ever hope to see. NOTHING went right. It really turned on tactical intelligence -- the enemy could see all -- and know all. The Allies were sailing blind.
That was plane to see... Or should I say... no planes with which to see.
Holy See, yes. Java See, no!
What an interesting history! Hope we read more of him as the war progresses
Late nite spelling. awht can you say?
Small wonder that this terrible loss has generally been downplayed in the narrative of WWII that we are generally exposed to. I doubt that Hollywood has made any films about this battle.
Curtin: ‘I’d like to use the Australian Army to defend Australia.’
Churchill: >:(
Tobruk will miss its Australian garrison this summer.
Ps When I was in St Lucia a few years ago I remember hearing that during a dairing raid, U-161 raided Castries harbour and destroyed quite a few ships in an extremly risky operatoin. Thanks for covering Operatoin Neuland -- one of the wars forgoten battle
When each episode ends I get the same sense of disappointment I did as a six year old after the children’s programmes ended on the BBC at 5.35pm. Magic Roundabout theme flashback lol.
It's just by sheer luck that my grandfather survived the Battle Of The Java Sea (and subsequently the war); he was stationed on Dutch light cruiser HMS Tromp which was part of the ABDA taskforce, but it got damaged a couple of days before in the Badung Strait and was in Australia for repairs when Doorman and his squad got annihilated.
John Curtin...one eye looking at the camera, the other at Singapore.
F
Indy’s narration of the Battle of the Java Sea was masterful! What a well done segment (as always). But especially this episode with that spectacular performance. Also like some others have said the Battle of the Java Sea is often overlooked, and especially Dutch contributions to the war effort (Doorman was always a bit of hero to me after I learned about him). Great work guys!
Thanks
Why Japan did not invade Australia?
Answer: EMU defense system.
The Australians were fighting on home soil and couldn't beat the Emu. What chance would the Japanese have had?
Forget the docks and ships and warehouses in Darwin, the emu pens were their primary target. They knew.
So fucking true 🤣🤣
In fact, the emus were suspected fifth columnists for much of the war. No sabotage was officially documented however ;)
Here I am spending a minute wondering what the hell does E M U stand for. Ya got me.
But there are plenty of Australians in uniform and hard at the war!
oh. they are all in Libya.
Technically the majority of the Australian military was in Australia.
@@RandomStuff-he7lu Both the Australians and New Zealanders were in constant dispute with Churchill as to where their troops belonged--the Middle East or South Pacific. I think they had a point there!
Not anymore. They left for Australia after Japan declared war on UK
@@ToddSauve But the majority of the Australian military was still in Australia since it wasn't allowed to serve outside of Australia and the surrounding areas.
@@RandomStuff-he7lu That is like saying that technically speaking the majority of the British military was still in Britain when the BEF was still on the beaches at Dunkirk.
On a per capita basis the 6th and 7th divisions were equivalent to the 12 British divisions evacuated from France.
The poorly trained militia were no substitute for the well trained and commanded AIF particularly when priority had been given to newly trained replacements sent to North Africa and Malaya throughout 1941 because the AIF had been in action all of the time.
Wow Indy...
I had NO IDEA Japan wreaked this much havoc in the Pacific until we got it under control.
I can't say it enough... This is the best History series I've ever seen. This is a freaking masterpiece and I'm so grateful and blessed to have stumbled upon this.
To listen to the events of this week and the potential of Australia being invaded makes the upcoming battles on New Guinea and Coreal Sea much more pivitol. I was unaware of how close Australia was to invasion and it makes those two battles much more important.
Operation Neuland saw the involvement of 5 Italian submarines which sank 16 cargos / tankers. An outstanding results for the Italians.
The battle of bilin river and sittang bridge show how little the British have learned about fighting Japan.
The Chinese would never have put their troops in an equal contest with Japan's unless they had a proper defensive position and knew how to get out.
The Chinese had learned the hard way to always make the Japanese walk as far as possible before trying to stop them. Hutton put poorly trained colonial troops on a platter for Japan and they smashed them.
Also not stated in this episode is that the entirety of South Burma has kind of risen up against the British. The ethnically bama Burma independence army under Aung San (aung San su kyii's father) is feeding Japan intelligence and making a mess of British logistics. They are also attacking the Kalars, south Asians living in Burma, who they see as the middle managers of British imperial rule over Burma. As a result, hundreds of thousands of South Asians living in Burma will start running to the Indian border, causing yet more transport havoc.
Thanx for that. I learn as much from the commenters as I do from Indy.
I feel you're insulting the troops on the ground rather than the shoddy job of the senior British officers. It was known that the British Indian Branch of the Empire had some of the most loyal and dedicated soldiers in the Empire.
Just read the Victoria Cross from the second world war man, those guys were not human and were fighting for the greatness of an Empire not there own, many of them for fighting in East Asia where once the British were properly equipped they smashed the Japanese.
It feels like they've still got a bit of that imperial arrogance thing going on, still underestimating the Japanese as a 'primitive' and less-capable military force, all evidence to the contrary.
EDIT - speaking of the officers in charge of course. As Nicholas pointed out, this wasn't the fault of the men fighting, but the poor decision making skills of the people at the top.
@@Foralltosee1623 the troops aren't being insulted.
There is no shame in the 17th Indian not being as experienced, trained, or well equipped as the Japanese who are veterans of 4 years of combat.
The Chinese troops fighting Japan have always had the handicap of inferior training, equipment, and weapons and they've just had to work around it.
The Chinese had a rule of thumb, a successful defense would require they outnumber the Japanese 3 to 1, a successful attack 5 to 1. Fighting in other situations is likely to just get the troops killed.
The Commonwealth troops would of course do better once they had better equipment and more experience, but the Americans in the Philippines and the British in Burma and Malaya were not willing to admit that the Japanese had a strong advantage in troop quality and fight them accordingly.
During the battle of Malaya, the Japanese were able to defeat the numerically superior British because the British kept underestimating how many troops they needed to mount a defense in certain places.
Again, the Chinese had learned how to fight Japan with inferior troops. Theyre the only ones who have defeated Japan after pearl harbor at third Changsha.
What's crazy is that only one allied officer actually sought out one of the Chinese generals who was at third Changsha and bothered to ask, "what do I need to know about fighting Japan?" This was William Slim who isn't in command in Burma just yet.
Thanks a lot man, it's always great to go through the comments here.
Also, how on earth did you comment 2 days ago?
[Japan starts seriously menacing Australia]
Australia: Deploy the Bod Semple loaded with Emus!
The Bob Semple was New Zealand.
@@RandomStuff-he7lu lend lease?
@@acrispywaffleiron4014 Australia was using P40s before lend lease was a thing. Plus Australia tried to limit its use of Lend Lease as much as possibly through the purchasing of licences to build locally.
@@RandomStuff-he7lu but I think the Bob Semple is worth it
well hold on folks stop laughing for a second and consider how dangerous a fully equipped division of emus would be ! Battle Hardened and showing no mercy they would be a force indeed !
The more of these i see the more i realize how big was the uno reverse card the allies pulled
No exaggeration. But the axis forces really don't have any way to replace the men and equipment they lose. Not to mention they've made enemies of pretty much everyone. It's the final battle that matters.:)
The Axis could NEVER match the industrial, geographic, and population advantages the Allies had. Japan was hoping for forced settlement the whole time, knowing this.
Honestly, the uno reverse card isn't as big as it might seem.
All three major axis countries overextended themselves militarily and industrially. While the early successes are impressive, none of them really had the resources to sustain the fight. All three lacked oil in particular. Japan is about to get their hands on Indonesian oil, but will find their rapidly shrinking tanker fleet a problem.
Yeah it's really one of those cases in history where historiy shouldn't have happened simply due to the laws of fairness^^
The real surprise was that the axis got as far as they did. They never had any long-term chance of victory.
This whole channel is magnificent. An excellent idea and amazing commitment by you. :)
Thank you so much!
This may be to date the best episode of TimeGhost WOrld War II. The section detailing the battle of Java Sea was exhilirating! The formations and strategy were clearly conveyed, and with excellent descriptions of the equipment and craft . Time Ghost, thank you for that. Not every battle needs that as it would become trite. However for large battles remaining in the series, please contnue this. This is what I want from historical war recountments
It is my great pleasure to both inform and entertain you. And I had a lot of fun writing that section!
@@WorldWarTwo thanks for the reply Indy (or Sparty or whomever)! its always nice getting a reply from the channel, knowing there are people behind it.
Also I'm a cellist so if you would like somber, melancholy or intense, or other adjective Cello music let me know. Gotta shoot the shot
8:40 worth noting all those ships have since been broken up for salvage, so tough luck if you're wanting to go scuba diving
they've been illegally salvaged by an unknown party (or parties); while they should have been (were?) considered war graves that should have been left alone. That would also mean scuba diving would have been inappropriate, don't you think?
Pre-Hiroshima steel is very valuable.
@@PalleRasmussen True, but I doubt the illegal scrap divers were going after it for uses like medical equipment and sensitive instrumentation. Stuff like that has to be registered and traceable so it doesn't interfere with the machines it's used in, they wouldn't buy it out of the back of a van, so to speak.
@@Raskolnikov70 could be a legal company that has some more shadowy supplier. C.R.E.A.M.
Cash Rules Everything Around Me -C.R.E.A.M. get the money dollar- dollar bill yaaaaa...
I wonder how citing Wu Tang Clan created an underlining...
My grandmother lives in an appartment building named after Karel Doorman.
Here is something for "Out of the Foxholes" or maybe "Out of the Ether." My great-uncle Wayne Thomas was in the New Mexico National Guard 200th Coastal Artillery which was deployed to the Philippines. He was killed by the Japanese in the Bataan death march.
When he hangs up that old phone the “click” is such a satisfying sound
Malaysian here. I sometimes wonder what our history would have been like if the British never lost. After all, their defeat sort of gave the Malayan Communist Party a chance to rise by being at the forefront of the resistance to Japanese occupation which lead to the Malayan Emergency which led to further suffering by our citizens. I had a friend from college who's grandfather was taken by the MCP and was never seen again.
The Brits losing Singapore is considered one of the many events that broke the facade that they had maintained about their superiority and invincibility.
If the Brits had been able to beat the Japanese, they would have had ruled Asia with an iron grip for the next 100 years.
The US, in a way, forced the Brits to give up their colonies because they had huge economic leverage. India started civilian disobedience and it cost the Brits enormously. They had no choice but to give up.
@@rajeshkanungo6627
But Indian pressure for independence long preceded the war.
Another way of looking at this is that if the Japanese had been able to completely defeat the British (ie take Índia), Indian freedom from Britain would have come with domination by Japan. A quick look at China might give a glimpse of what to expect then.
There's a reason that the Indian Army was the largest volunteer force.
Is it possible we can have “minute by minute” on DDAY when we arrive to that time? Loved the production about Pearl Harbor and would love to see that for DDAY
They did mention wanting to do more big projects. I imagine Stalingrad, Berlin, Midway, and D day will likely have specials
Who knows, we definitely want to, but depends if we can get the budget together. That is why the TimeGhost Army is so important
People have to join the Time Ghost army to really feel part of this community. For a only a few pounds a month the quality and quantity compares favourably with Netflix or the BBC. #Patreon
A ditch in the jungle as defensive line. How fearsome!
Yes, somebody in command really knew the ground!
One factor that was missing from the Battle of the Java Sea (imho): the ABDA-Fleet was formed by ships from three different navies (counting Royal Navy and Royal Australian Navy as one for this point) with three different doctrines, signalcodes, languages etc. They never had had time to practise together and were exhausted. While equal to the Japanese in numbers they were not really a unified force. Faced with an opponent who was well rested, well trained and all from the same navy their chances weren't great to start with.
I’ve talked about all that at length over the last two months though. I don’t go over the same things again and again- there isn’t time.
Also the fact that although both sides had two heavy cruisers, both Japanese heavy cruisers mounted 10 8" guns, HMS Exeter only mounted 6 and USS Houston was down to 6 as one of her turrets had already been destroyed.
@@Southsideindy Fair point, there are other places to go for the detail you can't cover in the allotted time. Doubt you could do a Pearl Harbor type special every week :-)
@@Southsideindy My bad, I must have missed that :-/ . Or maybe I had already forgotten it. You all manage to pack that much information in the time you have avaiable that its not easy to keep track. Please keep up the good work.
oh, wow, thanks for the shout of my membership at the 16:20 mark on this episode. I am still trying to catch up to current episodes -- when I discovered your show you had already been up a couple of years. I will be up up to speed soon. thanks for all you and Spartacus and all the others working on the show. love it.
Martin Thank you for joining the TimeGhost Army! Your support is what enables us to produce these episodes, and I cannot stress enough how much it means to us. Thanks for joining us in exploring history, and welcome aboard my friend.
Wow I did not realize how grim the Pacific situation was for the Allies at first
Even some of the later Allied victories were grim in terms of the losses. The air campaign over the Solomon Islands in 1942-1943 is what would ultimately usher in the decline of Japanese air power (contrary to popular belief it wasn't Midway. Midway was hugely significant for the carriers lost, but pilot losses were relatively light & replaceable) , but the aerial losses were roughly equal. It was a battle of attrition where Allied losses of planes & pilots were just as heavy, but the Allies could better afford the losses.
The level of research and presentation in this series is superb. ‘Granular’ is how I’d describe it. Neidell’s lectures are superb tutorials. His use of background material from the era and dressing in that style add even more authenticity.
Thanks!
Dear team, Thanks for showing Canada’s war time flag in the background. Means a lot to us who had family participate in the events you describe :)
Glad to be of service.
Classical/fantastic presentation of events. Their scope is so big, that the whole world feels it up to this day. Without such skillfully mastered presentation, it would be impossible to comprehend the extent of true tension beween Japan, Germany and Italy, on one hand, and US, UK, Australia , on another hand. This is especially amazing , givent the extent of Russian front at that time. How germans managed to keep all these directions moving coherently, I am still having hard time to comprehend.
Thanks!
This is incredible to watch I'm on the edge of my seat everytime I watch an episode. Every theatre is just fascinating loved the episode
I believe during the Battle of Sunda Strait HMAS Perth ran out of ammunition before being sunk.
Also, later in the week the sloop HMAS Yarra (displacement of about 1,000 tons) was also sunk while attempting to escort ships and rescued survivors back to Australia where on the way it ran into 3 cruisers and 4 destroyers. Ordering the ships it was escorting to scatter it then positioned itself between them and engaged the Japanese fleet. The action was in the end futile as the Yarra and the ships it was escorting were all sunk but today an Australian submarine is named after its captain, Rankin, with the motto 'Defend the weak'.
Hugh Jones , who had the bridge blown, died in 1952 in a drowning accident however some say he committed suicide
This week, still steering on its engines as a result of bomb damage suffered during the Battle of Makassar Strait earlier in February, USS Marblehead (CL-12) puts into Trincomalee, Ceylon (Sri Lanka) as part of a vorage of over 21,000 miles in search of repairs.
Fighting in the Caribbean too. The scope of this war is mindboggling, the only time in human history pretty much the entire globe became a battlefield.
Have a read of the Seven Years War 1756-1763.
@@johnegan7622 It doesn't really compare though. There was sporadic fighting in various parts of the world but not to the all-consuming and constant nature of WW2.
Japan now controls the South Pacific
US Carriers: NOT SO FAST!!
USS Enterprise, "Meh. Not a problem".
USS Yorktown: “Greetings Japan. Looking forward to getting to know you very soon.”
Is this... tie-ception? 4/5
Curtin Vs Churchill, now there's a battle worthy of an episode. I'm sure they really did like each other.
The Eastern Front could have its own channel, wish there was more on this episode! Amazing work. Thank you team
Yeah, the Pacific war are very interesting but it's a real shame that the biggest and in some ways the most important front of the war barely gets a couple of minutes
For almost the last 6 months, they've been talkinh at lenght of what went down in the Eastern Front.
@@extrahistory8956 We were talking about this episode DIP SHIT
I'm sure that Japanese night fighting capabilites will be a big thorn for the Allies.
It was until Solomon. When the US Navy start brandishing better radar and fire controls as well as total control of the airspace with tons of new carriers which they were able to launch in numbers in 1943 onwards, that's when the Japanese realized there's zero chance of winning.
@@ultramanJR it's not the radars as much as the CIC system that the us navy develops to use them. The early radars theoretically gave good information but it was hard to interpret and use quickly enough to be useful. The us navy had to totally change how they handled the radio and radar to make it useful
Yes British carrier pilots are trained in night operations and the ships have the radar, the US doesnt certify a squadron for night operations until April 1943 and even then only 5 of the 18 pilots are trained to fly by instruments alone. It doesnt certify an entire carrier to conduct night operations until July 1944!
@@watcherzero5256 But doesn't the Fleet Air Arm have much more dated aircraft than the US Navy?
@@martijn9568 At the start of the war yes, but its a matter of training. The British pilots were trained to take off and land on carriers in the dark at night and the carrier crews were trained to conduct flight deck operations and CIC at night, so were the Japanese. The US crews were only trained to and only conducted flight operations during daylight.
Been a fan since autumn 1916. So glad you're doing this too
Third week of begging for a Napoleonic Wars series 🙏
We prefer to cover events within 20th century, as there are more pictures (and film) we can use. So, it's highly unlikely
@@WorldWarTwo that's a shame, but thanks for responding so quick!
There is a guy who used to work for the history channel (when it wasn’t about aliens) who runs a channel called epic history tv and they have a fairly in depth multiple hour series on the Napoleonic War
Albeit not quite as in depth as these videos but these are really a cut above the rest.
@@barneyh7014 Yes I've watched that series already it's superb
Also cover the German u-boat raids in the Australia area along with the raids on Nauru and New Zealand
This is such a massive war words can't even describe the mass scale of it.
These just get better and better this is the one time of the week at present that i look forward to seeing something interesting from you Chaps thankyou for your efforts!DG
Thank you Daniel!
Really this really gave me THE chills since i have only heard of this battle very superficially and didn't understand it's importance and the scale the disaster this represented to the Allied forces in the Pacific. If Indy narrating makes it this tense I am very anxious about a certain future battle in some end of the world point in the Pacific Ocean, kudos crew and Indy.
the battle of Savo island and those that follow around the Guadalcanal campaign will be incredible too, then there is Midway... my son & I hope they do an extended version like the Pearl Harbor event they did.
Doorman was the first Dutch Admiral killed in action since the 1700s.
Doorman was not an admiral. His rank was schout-bij-nacht, just below vice admiral.
1:30 It's interesting Roosevelt mentioned Japan and Germany, but didn't even care to mention Italy. ;-D
Many too Italians in US cities because. (Yoda)
Battle of Java and followup battles ships casualty summary:
ABDA:
3 light cruisers (De Ruyter, Java, Perth)
2 heavy cruisers (Houston, Exeter)
6 destroyers (Electra, Jupiter, Kortenaer, Evertsen, Encounter, Pope)
IJN:
one minelayer
four transports
(all of them due to friendly fire with long lances!)
Thats a curbstomp of epic proportion!
@ 2: 33 a good picture of the early war B-17s flying along side later war production bomber.
Hi Indy, now that you mention the Axis presence with subs in the Caribbean Sea reminds me of a story my history professor told us in class while I was at the university. I am from Honduras by the way. He told us that he went to what was a secret german sub base in Honduras. That was left intact but was slowly decaying. There was apparently still some nazi symbols on the walls. I've always tried to find how true this story was but never really found anything. Just wanted to say that because you mentioned it on this episode.
Wow such a big naval, another naval battle this size will never happen again
Are you sure about that?
@@md.tamzidislam6580 Yes, there will be no larger Naval battles ever after this one
@@CivilWarWeekByWeek Please be a bit more specific about your definition of "naval battle".
@@spikespa5208 Its a joke showing my hubris, so I'm just not correct
Taffy 3
Dude! Your lighting has gotten SO MUCH better! I don't know if it has to do with what I said earlier, but if it is, I'm so glad I spoke up. Well done!
We listen and we’re glad for the feedback - we try to set different moods for different shooting sessions, and sometimes it fails. Therefore it’s all the more important to get your feedback. So thanks.
Best history class ever! If history was taught like this in school, I probably would have had a much greater interest.
We're glad to hear that Barry. It's a shame that so many people have a bad impression on studying history from how they were taught it at school, it's good to know we're rectifying that for some.
When the Hoi 4 AI takes charge of the Allied navy and you send in your death stack
Archie Wavell sent a cable ... great lyrics Indy
1:25 I like how Roosevelt doesn't even bother mentioning Italy.
What a great channel and idea. Glad I found it. New subscriber.
Welcome!
There needs to a running tally of Indy’s phone bill. 😁
"Loss of Java, though severe blow in every point of view, would not be fatal."
Oh boy, little did he knew, the loss of Java at that time, would be the day the Dutch loss Java forever.
Well, he wasn't Dutch, so by all means it wouldn't matter too much to him
Your work here is to be commended - truly exceptional - well done.
Thanks!
Thank you for info that I had no inkling of!
It wasn't the Australian "1st Division" that came back to Australia, it was the Australian "7th Division". My great-uncle was among them :)
Never realize that the battle of the Java Sea is the largest battle since Jutland. All the battles between those two were not as big as Java Sea
Good content and great presentation makes this a very watchable channel.
We're glad to hear that Nigel, please keep up the support.
The ships were carrying the 1st Australian corps (6th and 7th divisions), not the 1st Australian Division. The 1st Divsion mostly never left Australia during the entire war, with some units fighting at Milne Bay.
Yep, you're not the only one that's called me on that. Sorry, I stand corrected.
Authur "bankrupting fire insurance since 1945" "light up the lancaster" Harris
Thankfully he never got ahold of nukes or we'd all still be glowing in the dark.
@@Raskolnikov70 There was a plan to use Lancaster's to deliver the A-bomb if the B-29 could not.
@@KJAkk because b29 has two smaller bomb bays while the Lancaster have only one but bigger bomb bay
The B-29 bomber was faster than the Lancaster bomber, an important factor in reducing the effect of the shock wave on an airplane that might drop an atom bomb on Japan in World War 2.. A faster airplane means more distance that the shock wave has to travel before catching up to the airplane, and more distance would mean that the shock wave would be less powerful when it caught up to the airplane.
The Lancaster bomber was slow enough that its use would have been a desperation choice. The relatively slow Lancaster bomber might have survived the shock wave, or it might not have. No one really knew. People were fairly confident that the B-29 airplane had the speed to create sufficient distance of travel from the source point of the shock wave in order to be able to survive the shock wave, so anything possible was done in order to make the modifications to the B-29 deemed to be important for being physically being able to drop the atom bomb on the target list cities in Japan in World War 2, target list cities such as Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
@@wendydelisse9778 very good explained 👏
Germans knowing the date of Soviet offensive? Does it mean, that their intelligence was successfull?! Well, that's something new.
The Soviets planted a DOUBLE AGENT at German HQ East. Heh. So the Germans were CONSTANTLY getting fabulous intel -- just too late -- in most circumstances. The British played the same game -- with a twist. They had turned the German's own agents to feed Berlin spun tales of intel.
Germany had really good Intel. Nothing as dramatic as ULTRA, but they weren't the intel bumblers post war stories often portray them as .
@@davidhimmelsbach557 They appeared to have a Luftwaffe source in 1943, although the Rote Kapelle ring had been destroyed (Schulze-Boysen, its main leader, was a Luftwaffe officer).
I winced to learn from this video the time and place when heavy cruiser HMS Exeter sank because I remember how valiantly she fought in December 1939 against "pocket battleship" Admiral Graf Spee.
Yes, a very sad loss and for no good reason either. They battled long and hard, and had plenty of time to understand the strategic situation by the time the American destroyers ran low on fuel and everyone running low on ammo.... by then it was ABUNDANTLY clear the troop transports were too well defended and it was time to retreat, But Nooo, it was decided to became a suicide mission without purpose.
Really loving the new thumbnail look. The old ones, even though they weren't bad, were really the last remnant of the 2018/2019 low budget period.
It's good to hear that, we hope you enjoyed the video just as much!
Australians would be feeling pretty nervous by this point. But don't worry soon we will invent the Owen Submachinegun.
I would hardly call the Battle of the Java Sea the largest action since Jutland. It may have been a major action, but it still featured nothing larger than a heavy cruiser, and was certainly smaller than Mediterranean actions such as Calabria or Cape Spartivento in 1940, even if those were less decisive in outcome.
More ships always helps...
I guess larger by quantity, not tonnage
Battle of Cape Matapan in March 1941, over 50 warships on both sides, including 4 battleships, so yeah, don't know where they're getting the ranking of the Java Sea
@@sirllamaiii9708 Not even that. Between the two sides at Java Sea, you've got 4 heavy cruisers, 5 light cruisers, and 23 destroyers.
The Battle of Punta Stilo/Calabria in July 1940 involved a carrier, five battleships, six heavy cruisers, nine light cruisers (I'm discounting the four cruisers of 7th Div as they didn't play a role in the action), and 32 destroyers.
The Battle of Capo Teulada/Cape Spartivento in November 1940 involved a carrier, three battleships, a battlecruiser, seven heavy cruisers, six light cruisers, and 28 destroyers.
Either action is larger in terms of number of ships compared to Java Sea - by a wide margin - and that gap only gets much, much larger if you do it by tonnage. Java Sea is a landmark because of how decisively it ended the ability of ABDAFLOAT to contest the waters around southeast Asia, but it wasn't really a huge action by any stretch of the imagination - it was just a cruiser clash with a decisive ended emblematic of the limited Allies resources in the area and the poor cooperation those forces had with themselves and aircraft in the region.
I think they are counting support forces and convoy itself
Wow...every now and then you find a channel like this on YT and it makes all the crap you have to trawl through worth it, I'm going to spend this bank holiday binging on these videos...excellent, and superbly presented...As a Brit, I could be listening to Ed Murrow himself.
It's great to hear that you've found us! We hope you enjoyed your time watching our videos.
PM Curtain, Recalled the Ships holding the 7th Division (not the "1st Division" as you claimed) they didn't reuse the Division numbers of the WW1.
They were retrained in tropical Queensland Australia for Jungle warfare & sent to P&NG to reinforce the 2 Australian Militia battalions (39th & 51st) defending Port Moresby.
Thank you, I and a whole variety of sources stand corrected.
@@WorldWarTwo Churchill was never specific in the "Hinge of Fate" about the troops involved because it was inconvenient to the narrative that they weren't required in the defence of Australia for the rest of the war.
So Japanese basically destroyed all Allied resistance in South East 🌏 Asia and now Australia is in danger....
Well the Philippines is still holding, bit not for long.
Oddly enough, I keep running into college kids that say that Japan never did anything wrong and the problem would have solved itself if we didn't start a war with them...
Love that American and Republic Of China 🇹🇼 flag in the back ! Republic of China very underrated in the war
The CCP like to claim credit, but it was what would become the Republic of China that did almost all the fighting and therefore won the victories and suffered the losses.
The Communists mainly just hid in the mountains until after the war when they were sent equipment and supplies by the USSR.
@@tams805 i know it I’m an American living in the Republic Of China in Taiwan 🇹🇼
Masterfully done. This was quite exciting.
Thanks James!
Nice video Keep up the Good work
Thanks!