D&D Combat SUCKS. This is why.
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- čas přidán 15. 02. 2024
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Me no likey the more popular TTRPG combat systems such as D&D 5e & Pathfinder. Does that mean I hate combat in general? No way!
But there's a lot of work to make combats feel slightly more exciting at the table. Let's take a look at some options...
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"Black Vortex" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
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Pathfinder goblins beat 5e goblins any day of the week.
I see your cheeky hidden text and raise you the Eventyr Goblins
czcams.com/video/dR13M5Y2HCs/video.htmlsi=rPsWPvhjDGilN2Ug
Windows only Excel... (Darth Vader NOOOO!)
Think it's amazing, thank you for bringing it to my attention, was looking for something like this for a long time 😃😇❤️
I'm actually writing my *own* TTRPG system, & while I won't go into specifics so no-one *steals* the idea, I've already written & in a way *play tested* a custom combat system I designed for it that's designed *specifically* to make combat faster paced, more dynamic, cinematic & interesting, *&* allow all the players to *meaningfully* participate; & according to my play test, it actually works *really* well.
Babe wake up new Deficient Master
such a great channel
I feel like I see this comment on every channel that's about to pop off.
I'm here for it
You guys got babes?
yes, honey
@@nyorozo2119 I was looking for your comment.
Devil's argument take for using environment: as often ruled, it's worse than just attacking. Throw a barrel of sand at an enemy for 1d4 improvised weapon damage, or use your Extra attack to make two greatsword 2d6 damage attacks. At level 1, the disruptancies is small, but the higher level you get, the less interesting using terrain becomes. I'd wager most DMs also ask for an Athletics check to pick up the sand barrel, and perhaps with disadvantage too because it's so unwieldy. Oh, and two turns worth of actions: one to pick it up and another to actually throw it. - Or again, use your greatsword, as usual.
It took me a game like Blades in the Dark to internalize this, but REWARD YOUR PLAYERS FOR THE THINGS YOU WANT TO SEE HAPPENING IN THE GAME!
Instead, I would houserule it as "the first time a battlefield toy is used as part of the attack, you deal regular weapon damage, and you gain Inspiration." So that barrel deals 2d6 damage for you, same as your greatsword attack so it's not penalized, and is only one attack of your set of Extra attacks. Because you used the barrel and created an awesome fiction, you gain a bonus.
Balance: only the first time, it's boring to use the same battle over and over, but it's interesting to use new toys all the time. I'm only giving Inspiration for the thing I want to see.
Still too broken? Introduce the next rule: "This counts for enemies too. When they use toys for the first time, the DM gains Inspiration."
I generally let the environment be destructible and allow 3/4 cover to give the Evasion ability. You see Barbarians ripping out doors and running at enemy archers and spellcasters very often because of the buff to AC and Dex saves.
Or just give said actions certain benefits, you throw the barrel and the enemy is knocked prone, or you have advantage on the attack, or the shit inside the barrel was lamp oil and now you can lit the enemy on fire if you have a fire source nearby (or one of your companions casts fire bolt on the enemy)
Giving help with the environment can usually extend to just more than stat boosts
Yeah apply status effects and make them matter. That high level mage is less effective if they can’t see, speak or maybe even hear if their face is covered in the muck you threw at their head. Sure they have ways around that but true of any damage dealing and the damage dealing is rarely anything that directly hinders their round to round combat effectiveness or actions
Or just ignore the damage rules and scale it with your PCs in a way it's always a good option, but never OP. I also sometimes let the PC convince me of what skill they should use and describe how they use that skill for the action.
It's hard for me to understand the question. Players understand that two groups fighting eachother in a small apartment where you are both stuck together is awful. They know the first one through the door must not stand there and block the others. Or that a group of dudes with pistols are much less threatening when you're the one with a rifle shooting down a long corridor.
You must understand skirmish combat itself and how to manouver, not try to make up spot rules for flour sacks and chandeliers and stuff.
Flour sacks are the poor man's Detect Invisible. When I have accidentally dropped flour sacks they do not create all-obscuring dust clouds. But players can grasp that someone moving over the floor will leave trails, and that flour dust sticking to an invisible thing makes it stand out.
In the case where a basic attack is not an available action, the dodge action is a good option. I think I got that from the DM Lair. It worked wonders, also I found utilizing Keith Ammann's The Monsters Know What They're Doing immensely helpful. The fights instantly became more dynamic.
Approve of both, for added sense of believability is The Monsters Know What They're Doing a blessing, just don't go overboard with the efficiency when your players expect high epic heroic fantasy so that they don't receive a gritty realism as goblins totally massacre them... Yeah, totally didn't happen to me, so, you know, just be careful XD
Sometimes Dodge is the best option too. A lot of new players don't feel like they are doing anything unless they are making attacks
@@kdaviper the first time I played, I played a centaur fighter. Trample, lance, sword, second wind, disengage and bow. Is a very deadly combination.
At lvl 5, I destroyed everything in my path. My DM had made a deal with me, that the lance would break after use, so that I had to take a long rest for repair. As dropping it for using the sword and taking it up to charge the next victim, was to powerful.
In the next campaign, I played a human nobleman and had to learn the hard way, how combat really is.
@@jarlnils435but don’t forget your greatest weakness: human-sized doors 😱😱😱😱
@@nuh_uh210 yes, that was annoying. Could not enter any building. But my DM allowed me to use that time for "Repair" and other stuff.
The centaur had Charisma 8 and a modifier of -1, but he did horrible things in encounters with foes, so that my horrified DM gave me advantage based on the centaur's actions.
Throwing heads and threaten the enemy to be the next, does cause some morale issues among bandits.
I was the oldest of the group with 19 years. And I have an extensive knowlage of ancient and medieval warfare. So I acted like some celtic or greek champion. Proud, boastful, loud. And an asshole, based on the low charisma.
The best thing was, when the centaur laid siege to an entire bandit settlement for three days, on his own.
You’ve got some good advice in here, but at least at my table, I really feel like trying to rush the players through complex mechanics is just a recipe for frustration. Sure, we want combat to feel more tense, but we want that stress to come from the threat that the enemies pose, not the threat of your turn getting cut short or simplified before you can meaningfully contribute because you didn’t think of something fast enough. The pressure of a timer in a game with so many mechanical elements sounds awful to me.
Besides, the reason that players are slow in the first place is because of the mechanics that they’re playing with; hurrying them along to make combat faster is like trying to get rid of the smoke without putting out the fire.
The honest truth is that a lot of this advice won't actually speed up play to a significant degree, though the spreadsheet based character sheet might if your players all have access to a computer during game, which mine don't. Everything else will actually slow it down more because now there's more things on the table happening and now there are more options to consider. As for anything where you're trying to force players into higher speeds for decision making, good luck with that, especially if you're trying to recruit new people to your group.
@@Argonnosi if ur an playing with experienced players, it should not take over a minute to decide what you are going to do. You don't need to roll any dice, but at least say what ur plan is. Obviously there are exceptions like if they need more info from the dm
@@samirstrasser3262 It's been a very long time since I've played DnD, so maybe this is a DnD thing, 'cause it's never taken my players more than a minute to figure out what they're doing once they know the rules. Most of the time my players know what they're doing before their turn even comes up.
@@Argonnosi it's more of a table attentiveness thing. Some tables have people who just don't pay attention until it is there turn which makes them take longer than not. Adding the rule really just makes them have to pay attention to combat
@@samirstrasser3262 Then I guess I've just been luck with my players. But, it might still be the system. I couldn't imagine turning to look at my phone after I'm done with my action, ignoring the rolling of dice and then hearing someone tell me my character is dead while not paying attention.
Sooooo, we're just not gonna talk about how 90% of his feed is Ginny D? 😂 In all seriousness dude, love these videos of yours they're intellectually engaging and actually get you to question why something does or doesn't work. Keep up the good work! 👍
We know hes married, so the biggest twist would be....
Hes married to GinnyD
@@alphachicken9596I’d love to see that, especially if they collaborate at some point.
Was already debating if he just went to her shorts page for predictability 😄
I came here specifically to talk about how 90% of his feed is just Ginny D. And how I'm here for it.
My house rule is "No watching Ginny DI at the table."
She deserves your undivided attention.
i find her super annoying. feels like she is talking down to her viewers.
@@OiMouseboyyou have to remember there are dumb people like us who need things explained to us like we’re five to comprehend it
I think a lot of players would be interested to know that a flour cloud does more than obscure vision ... it's highly flammable. Toss a torch into a flour cloud for a mini-fireball!
Yeah, dust bombs are scary.
I worked as an engineer at a factory where sugar was ground into a fine powder - caster sugar.
By law the sugar grinding room had to have blast walls and a soft top because if the sugar powder ever gets airborne, any tiny spark will trigger a massive explosion. The mandated design of the griding room channels any explosion upwards to blow off the soft roof - a relatively safe option compared to blowing the walls out and killing everyone in the factory.
Most people don't realise the actual danger when any powdered carbohydrate - like flour or sugar - gets airborne and meets a flame or spark!
The PCs can improvise a lot of weapons, it's simply easier for them to get an illegal balkan wars-era hand grenade. A bum can carry one sack of flour with some effort but can easily carry a bundle of hand grenades with little work.
One use for flour is a poor man's Detect Invisible. Anything moving on a flour-covered floor leaves tracks. Someone invisible coated in flour will be less so.
What if you let them find that out themselves? They may think about it or not, imagine a situation where they didnt really think about that before lighting a torch in flammable particles and end up lighting everything inside it on fire
Nice, somebody else thought of that.
This is one of the best videos on this subject ever produced. The examples, animation, and editing is perfect. When I see a video like this I think, "Damn. I gotta raise my game." Keep making videos. You are going to have 100k subs in no time. --Professor DM, DungeonCraft.
Wow. He signs his comments as if he's not one of the most influential CZcamsrs for both my channel & my games.
Guess I'm gonna keep making videos!
Honestly, the most obvious solution to _hit it until it stops hitting back_ is just to have different win conditions
Yeah, especially because that’s kinda just how an armed fight goes in real life too.
Another very important thing: narration.
There's always two extremes at a table. Either the players just say "I attack; I cast X; oh, I'll activate favourite foe" and be done with it. The other extreme is always an epic description of what they're doing only to miss.
I was literally playing this encounter yesterday and we had a lot of fun because everyone at the table came up with really fun narration and roleplay in combat, but only AFTER seeing the dice roll. In fact there was a player who wanted to miss purely for roleplay (he also wanted this to happen to another player, that part was annoying). Because some of the guys were new and we were getting used to Foundry vtt, yeah, combat itself was too long at first, but once we got thing going it was probably one of the best "intro fights" I've had in quite some time
There's a reason Matt Mercer asks, "How do you want to do this," AFTER the attack resolves!
Wow, actively being a detriment to your team in a life or death scenario sure is “muh roleplay”!
The gang will fight ten zombies. I am not going to describe ten different variants of zombies being hit with a shotgun. I hate it when people refuse to move the game forward unless I describe the use of weapons.
Asking to miss an attack is a strange choice, because I will roll to hit for the cave bear. And the cave bear will try to eat your PC dead and then there's no story except the story of the cave bear encounter.
Of course, if it’s getting repetitive, you can skip the narration. That said, I think another way to fix that is for the narration to be on both sides. The dwarf berserker is going to move a lot differently than a human fencer; not just in crunch but in fluff. The GM can describe how the dwarf swings in wide, furious arcs that destroy bits of scenery while the human always seems to know exactly when and where their opponents’ guard has dropped. THEN the player can describe how they react to this. Maybe the rogue jumps over the dwarf’s knee-height cut to tackle him to the ground, or the fighter deliberately leaves an opening as a feint that the human falls for and overextends.
People occasionally say that a fight is a kind of dance, and they’re kinda right. It’s all about knowing what your partner is doing and reacting accordingly. It just so happens your goal is to make your partner fatally mess up.
@@alexstapleton6339 I tend to not narrate much. I want to do stuff, not listen to someone tell me how I do stuff.
A classic way to speed things up and add more of a feeling of simultaneity is to use group initiative combined with a "declaration phase". Back in the olden days, everyone in the party declared what they wanted to do, and then those declared actions were set in stone, and all actions were resolved in order of their type (movement, magic, ranged attack, melee attack). The idea was that everyone started acting at the same time, but different actions take longer than others.
If you want faster paced combat, this system significantly speeds everything up.
Exactly. Grouped initiative and the declaration phase not only speeds up combat, but it also encourages teamwork between the players since they will be acting together. And if the DM sets it up with enemies always declaring first, the players will be engaged in a reactive playstyle, not unlike pretty much the rest of the game where the DM presents a situation and asks for the player's input.
Since you mentioned the old days, this is not the only thing that made combat significantly faster back at the time... Things had much lower HP and died much faster, PCs included! It helped make combat something you wanted to avoid at least during the first few levels, so players were focused in acquiring treasure (which was the main source of XP in the old days as well)
Sadly, I do not know how 5E players can fix the bloated HP problem without having to tinker too much with the game's "balance" or something, honestly I would just suggest giving the old D&D editions a try, specially B/X or some of it's retroclones (Old School Essentials is great). I feel bad for those who are stuck playing 5e, having to homebrew everything to make the game have the slightest hint of fun...
@@leonardoaquino3669 opinion of my DM, however, is thus: tracking those actions is a pain
I'm kind of liking this!
The DMG has rules for this twice with one of them using rice and one flat scores for how fast something is.
The other one is in a UA.
Another tool for your box:
Grouping Minons.
I found this rule in another system but it transfers well to others, and it speeds up combat immensely if you want to have large groups of enemies. All you need to do is take 3 or more minons and run them using a single character sheet. For every minon above 3 you add one to any 'offensive rolls' that are required, in Pathfinder this would be rolls that go against an AC, DC or something similar. Do not rise the defensive abilities of the character sheet, for you still want your players to hit the minions like normal.
Health also remains the same but should be maximized, with this being the number your tallying to remove a minon from the group. Up to you if you want your players to be able to take out multiple minions in a single attack, I prefer yes. Remember you can always have individuals of the group break away and try to run, after seeing one of their members be diced in half by a 30 point blow from the barbarian.
Now you can field 20 goblins 'soldiers,' 20 goblin 'archers' (Split into two groups), and 4 level-2 goblin clerics (I run those as individuals, spell casters are a pain that way) against that level 5 party, without it becoming a bogged down fight!
I made a system for my table which I called the "hivemind", its basically also rolling a group of monsters together, but instead of becoming one unit theyre more like a slimy blob emalganation of all the monsters inside. So they can still use their numbers to surround people. I roll to hit for each blob square that can connect to a player. For every time the minion goes below max hp the blob shrinks by one or more squares. Aoe spells bypass it :)
I highly recommend MCDM minion mechanics for 5e. I played it and it’s very good and balanced.
Minions in DND used to mean a standard stat-block with the exception of 1HP and Evasion-style ability on all saves. A Necromancer with 100 skeletons against 4 level 11’s feels way more epic that way. You don’t have to track health as much either.
One thing pathfinder does for all swarm type minions is giving them weakness to area damage. Basically whenever you use an AoE on a swarm minion, even though it mechanically is just a single creature, it still takes extra damage as you would expect when using an AoE on a swarm. You could do the same thing in 5e by applying vulnerability whenever a grouped creature is caught in an AoE.
I switched to Prowlers and Paragons late last year, and it has minion rules exactly like this but based off of its d6 system, so instead the player rolls an attack roll against the threat of the minions, and every net success over what the minion rolled is a minion killed. Threat is their overall dice they use to roll their attacks, or defenses but the more minions there are grouped together, the higher their attack bonus is-they're easy to tear through, but still menacing until you start wiping them out.
They can also buy area-of-effect powers for their characters, which take out double the minions-or even some powers like Super Speed allow you to take them out as fast too. Minions have definitely up'd the action-nature of my sessions by enabling me to throw more at my players, while also not having much setup to get them in the game.
The problem with Combat Toys is that according to the rules, and this video's own suggestions, they are less powerful than the made for combat options. Players will always move back to the paper buttons without thinking because the numbers are bigger. If 5e is what your group continues playing, the toys must be MORE powerful than the paper buttons if you want the party to use them. Since the game doesn't have enough to do with money already, the best thing to do is to make potions of various spells generally available for purchase, but call them something else. The booze that's great for replacing flaming hands can only be found at one place, and the flour that makes really good fog clouds is at another place.
YOU decide the numbers though... so they can be the same or bigger than numbers on their sheets
The point he was making, I think, was that the enemies can use the toys. Goblins don't learn flame hands usually but they can do the burning lantern thing.
Or even so the PC doesn't burn a spell slot
@@drtiskthe problem is if you make the toys better than the paper buttons you have just created a new paper button. Now instead of making a weapon attack each round the players throw beer around every single round.
That's not better.
You have to make sure combat is more than just smacking the enemy.
In dungeon coachs DC20 game (essentially if 5e and pf2e had a baby) he kind of solved combat's off-turn engagement issue because off your turn, as a martial at least, you have defensive manuevers you can use off your turn as reactions.
For 1 action point, you can parry an attack and add +5AC to you or your allie in range or raise your shield to mitigate damage from an attack. Opportunity attacks are also bolstered to proc when enemies get up from prone, uses an object, picks up something from the floor or moves from your threat range.
You could potentially spend all four of your action points before your turn comes but it doesnt feel all that bad because you have been acting off turn and you remain engaged. At the end of your turn, you get your action points replenished to start the dance again.
For dnd, we seriously just need more reactions since most of the time reactions straight up go unused.
Yep. Most of the GM advice videos out there are just revealing how poor a system D&D is. If you want to run better games, use better systems. DC20 will be that.
More reactions and off turn abilities actually makes combat take even longer though, because there are more players interrupting
@@drtisk I'd check out the game, somehow this doesn't seem to be a factor when playing, it's really really promising stuff
Cool idea! Even having the option to help an ally or take advantage of a foes situation once per turn would be enough to make people start paying more attention.
@@drtisktrue. But less boring and more engaging.
This is a great point, you have to teach your players to use this stuff too, especially if they are new, I had a player try to sneak into a goblin encampment only to make noise coming down the wall alerting a nearby goblin, goblin swings at him disengages and runs screaming to his buddies to alarm the camp, player takes a nearby torch throws' it into the goblins tents lighting them on fire and just so happens to dash into the room with the goblin boss, he surprises the boss got lucky cuts him in two, then decides to step out of the cave and throw the boss's upper torso directly into the small horde of 5 goblins they freak out as their base is on fire and their boss dead and run. It was an epic encounter, bring emotion into your combat its a very real thing.
Personally, the only way I was able to truly spruce up combat was switching to a lighter ruleset that promoted dynamic combat scenes. My best combats were running Rhapsody of Blood, a pbta about exploring a cursed castle and slaying monsters. The very specific boss fight mechanics were amazing for making them exciting with very little effort.
Personally, my 5e combats are real interesting if I, as a DM, don't use monster sheets. Forces me to roleplay the action. Ask questions, think about stuff around the world is reacting to combat. Affect said combat with said stuff around the world. Makes my players roleplay. Makes me roleplay.
I can still make the monster sheets, study them, be inspired by them, reference them, but boy o boy if I use them in combat I become like my players, just thinking about abilities, looking at numbers. In my PC I have a quick damage table, do +-1,2,3 to those to make it "random" and I'm good. Fake a "dice roll click" from my computer and keep the action going.
@@pseudolimao You're right that the sheets are a big part of the problem. So many monsters have the same "makes two attacks: one claw and one bite" even down to the name and damage. It's uninspired and boring. Monsters with more diverse abilities, actual strategies and distinct ways of fighting can force the players to adapt and change their own strategies. Do be careful though of completely shutting down players.
So in my very first session as a DM I was running the Lost Mines of Phandelver (shocking I know). One of my more experienced players decided to have some fun with this encounter. They were player a full blooded orc paladin. When the fight started, 2 of the goblins ran up to attack, on the paladin's turn instead of pulling out their weapon they asked if they could do some shenanigans. They wanted to swing one of the dead horses that was right next to them as an improvised weapon. I had them roll a strength check to see if they could wield the dead horse. They rolled over a 20 and since they are a full blood orc they have the "powerful build" feature they pulled it off. Because this was so funny and cool I ruled this as an improvised weapon but up'ed the damage die because its an ENTIRE DEAD HORSE, not just a chair or similar. On top of that I thought there is no way you could swing this horse with any amount of control so it is going to swing in an arc and hit Everything and Everyone in that arc. So in the end 2 goblins and one of the other players were hit with a dead horse and knocked to the ground.
Also I now rule that if one of my players acts first before the initiative roll happens, they are the first in the party to go and very likely the the very top of the initiative order. I feel like that is how that would happen for real and it just makes sense. Its super annoying when you say "I cast Fireball!" then have to roll initiative and ... you end up last in the initiative order.
It’s almost like you don’t want to be a DNDTuber
Every 5e DM has an internal clock that slowly ticks down to the day they realize they hate running the system and want to play anything but D&D for once.
@@Parkinstarkey Embrace the opportunities of GURPS, Pulp Cthulhu, Cyberpunk 2020, or literally anything else.
That's what happens when you play DnD and only DnD for long time. I basically started playing other TTRPGs right away and I still like DnD
5e seems to be in the perfect place to be crunchy for half of the TTRPG space, and not crunchy enough for the other.
@@leotamer5 That's good way to put it, when I hit with sword I want to account for humidity in air to calculate how much damage I dealt
Your videos make me happy. May the angels cry out your name.
In regards to your thumbnail:
Exploration in 5e also doesn't really have much to it lol, so i guess it sucks too in the sense that there isn't meat on the bone.
And, roleplay is ultimately something that exists outside of the 5e mechanics themselves, especially when basically no one uses Insperation lol.
Anyways, pay me no mind lol, just overanalzing a thumbnail.
0:13 You forgot that the Goblins Surprise the level 1 party according to the book. That means its a 5 minute encounter for a normal party because they're level 1. I really don't think the Goblin Ambush is a good example at all even if one of the players have a big passive perception, it's 4 goblins and it's the first encounter. That is a very fast fight with player focus fire.
7:11 The goblin can't use the scroll because it doesn't have the correct spell list. This is cheating. The players will call you out for it especially if they're level 1.
I'm back, I can watch the rest. 8:37 This is fine but it can corner you in the future. That might not be a big deal for a liberal DM. The thing is if you as a DM come up with something creative like ale + lantern and use it against your players to create burning hands, then you're teaching the players that they can do this. On the surface, this isn't a bad thing exactly but you as a DM shouldn't have done this. The reason why is because if the players do anything remotely creative down the line like you did and you say no, then you've shot yourself in the foot, it's very unfair to the players.
If I did this to my players and they learned about the Ale + lantern combo then they would all do that throughout the whole campaign because the goblins have like 7 hp and they come in numbers. Free spamable AOE burning hands for everyone will meme on the Phandelver campaign. I can't shut that down because I did it to them, even if I only did it once in the campaign.
The players should have naturally discovered this and be rewarded for their creativity once.
9:50 Character builds make combat move faster because you understand your progression, features and spells. Everything is mapped out. You spent time on learning what your character can do. I don't understand how learning the rules and learning what your character can do "sucks". This is a very bad take. Like no wonder you think combat sucks. It makes it sound like you're against players learning the game and I don't think I'm wrong, you literally made up the scroll rules in this video.
Didn’t expect when I was looking through the comments for someone I agreed with to spot a Kobold!
What’s crazy is how the video is about combat being to complicated and taking to long and the solution is making a bunch of rulings that aren’t supported by the rules so what are you going to write down every “creative” spell effect someone makes and bog down gameplay?
The players should simply learn how their characters operate and how to effectively and efficiently use them in combat to win in a timely matter that’s just good manners honestly if I play Monopoly with someone and it takes them 5 minutes to take a turn I’m not playing with them again 😂
The game starts when you plan the trip. The players decide how they move in formation during the trip. They can decide they have a point man up front, then that bloke spots the horses before the cart is in the goblin's field of fire. You can have dudes with muskets riding in the cart looking out on the sides. They might have a chance to spot something.
A goblin MU isn't odd, it depends on how common you want magic-users to be. We have sprinkled little level 1-3 clerics and MUs in monster ranks. They might not have the worst spells but a dude tossing Sleep on your horses can ruin things.
The discussion of "toys" in combat is really good advice. I used to always love running games for new players, as they would instinctively try to interact with the environment and use it dynamically in combat and I noticed that "experienced" players were more likely to just cast a spell or use the attack action. (generalization, does not apply to all)
I find your framing of "toys" is a really thought provoking concept, and that maybe it isn't really new players vs experienced, but rather do I design combats with interesting environments, and reward players for engaging with it or not. Same story w/ RP mid combat.
Great video :)
Thank you! I think names really do evoke a sense of mindfulness when it comes to game design. What I'm saying in this video isn't revolutionary: make your game world dynamic, even the combats. But the words dynamism or emergent elements don't have that same sense of discovery & "play" that toys do.
And yes, I agree that most new players are more creative than most experienced players. They see the world in their heads while GaMeRs see the world in their character sheet.
I just love that you put a Reference to your Obsession with Ginny in every Video. And I also get it, 100%.
I’ve recently started playing with my kids, and after rolling initiative on the very first encounter and looking at their faces realized I was in trouble. I went with the Professor DM’s suggestion and had them in clockwise seating order say 1) what they were planning to do and 2) made them all roll turn initiative (doubling as the ‘to hit’ roll) and damage dice together. I let them make minor adjustments to what they wanted to do and wow it got dramatic. Almost like readying and action and your muscles are poised and committed to following through unless you can make a minor pivot.
My daughter wanted to lob a grenade at a space-tiger, so I let her pull the pin as she was rolling initiative, but she went last and ended up and the battlefield changed her action into a liability by her turn, so she had to blow up their escape route so as not to fratricide everyone. And it worked so well because within about 15 min, we had developed the story, done an encounter, and were knee deep in our next encounter without anyone getting disengaged or pulled out of fantasy land.
It isn’t perfect, but their investment was bigger in all the subsequent encounters, and I kept their attention. Going forward, I think I’ll try all of that out again, but have them add whatever action they state to their “initiative + to hit” roll (i.e. smooth talking gets to add CHA mod to the initiative roll, sneaky-sneaky adds a DEX to roll, etc)
Nice video, you gave me lots of ideas thank you, where did you get those pretty tiles and minis? I absolutely need that blue wizard 😂
Can I ask where you got your generic colored minis?
You fell right into my trap card! czcams.com/video/an5svmNA9sg/video.html
@@DeficientMaster xD
I was hoping you’d respond to this question! Great reference. 😂
@@DeficientMaster well played, much respect lol. Commenting again to help boost you
rushing players is bound to cause frutration, playing a more rules-light or just narrative focused system would probably be more advisable if one wants to resolve combat faster
on the other hand making the field of combat more interactive is a great mmethod, it might take a bit longer to prepare and a bit of a bummer when players end up ignoring some points it leads to great moments - a tip on this is that DMG has a table for improvising damage and to be aware that the level up curse WILL diminish this if left to Rules as Written
Awesome video. 👍
Just discovered this channel, and I’m loving the information, along with the tone and witty banter. Very entertaining. I had a question about the maps. They’re very clear and evocative, especially the temple at time stamp 6:37. Where did you get these maps from? I must know… And please make more videos like this. 👍
Dude, the editing in this video is SOOO fun! I usually really love the fun camera tricks you do, but the visuals you added to this video felt so fresh and yet still distinctly your style.
Regarding Initiative, the Initiative Score rules (Chapter 9 in the DMG) are great. I use them pretty frequently and it lets you seamlessly jump into combat.
Regarding "toys," he's on the right track. Xanathar's Guide to Everything has guidelines on traps and that's a great framework for making these "toys" as he describes them. Like, a goblin doing _burning hands_ from a mundane bottle of ale is probably a little much and basically means everybody will start doing that regularly. Because if a goblin can do it, why don't other people do it too? But a goblin doing a 10-ft line of 1d6 fire that way? That's more reasonable and more dynamic.
*_Again: that's Chapter 2: Traps Revisited in Xanathar's Guide to Everything._*
It's also great to resolve improvised player actions, like dropping a chandelier onto several enemies and whatnot. I highly recommend it.
I would love any tips on theater of the mind combat. I greatly prefer it to speed up the game, but it comes with obvious cons, especially when there’s a disconnect between what the DM imagines and what the players imagine.
I agree with everything but the time limit, since in the end that'll just encourage players to fall into the "doing one thing every single turn" cycle rather than encouraging them to think before their turn. Maybe it works for Mr. Deficient, though, but it would destroy my table.
I make the players roll the attack roll of the monsters.
1. It makes them active even when its not their turn.
2. It represents that while AC is a passive number defense for the character is a very active and important thing.
Rolling more dice is not a way to be involved in a skirmish.
The players act as one, there is no special spotlight. If you have an idea you just say it. Any time I play an MU, I do what the other players suggest half the time.
Just to clarify with toys - they should be pinned down to situation/environment. Otherwise you risk all players having infinite burning hands.
Also, to fix boring attack actions, I'm using house rule, that players can attempt to make permanent injury on disadvantage. They state, what they want to do, I decide, what effect if has. This way I can balance so thrust into an eye can blind ogre, but for a boss, it will just make him dizzy. Now, my players are really creative with attacks, and it works especially well, if you house rule weak spots for your monsters. Or let players do it for you.
When it comes to timing player turns to speed up combat, I've found it more helpful to reward fast turns rather than punishing slow turns. So if a player decides on what they will do in let's say 15 seconds, they get one of these bonuses; +1 to one attack roll/spell save DC/ability check, or + 10 ft of movement. Note I said decides on their action, not complete all the rolling and etc in that time, don't need to be timing people's math abilities. Yeah this will change the balance a little but I think it's worth it.
I'm not going to punish or reward my mates for having fun. 15 seconds would cut into valuable time for looking up eels, asking questions about doors, looking at the map and roleplaying.
Adding more calculations to a problem caused by too much calculation sounds odd. Remove abilities you and the crew dislike. Streamline the process a lot more so resolving a shotgun is quick.
Awesome video as always! My DM usually does this thing within combat where just hefore he makes an attack as the enemy, he allows all of us a chance to move to try to dodge, using whatever movement we had leftover. Though we cant perfectly predict how he's going to attack, its pretty cool to get some chance of not immediately all out dying (coming from someone who is playing a squishy warlock)
I thought I saw a new video in my feed a couple of days ago, but when I serched I can't find a new one. Did I imagine it??? (should I roll a d100 for sanity?)
I totally agree! I’m making a roguelike campaign and I’m making all the battle maps. I try to stuff as many intreating environmental obstacles or objects that can be used both by and against the players. This campaign has them fighting their way down the layers of hell and some examples of these things I’ve put in is as follows. Lava/spike/deep pits, explosive crystals, random magic items that a random imp might scoop up, spiked walls, traps, magical darkness areas, ice patches and water filled sections, and so many CLIFFS man just having some sort of change of elevation spices up so much when you flipping use it. Also I have custom throwing rules so you bet that huge monster is going to attempt to pick up a PC and try to yeet them at one another or into dangerous environments. I even have modifiers that monsters can get that change how you have to deal with them such as creatures that have less health but more damage, monsters that explode when they die and sometimes loot goblins that will attempt to flee combat but have big rewards. this is a roguelike after all.. i want to keep it interesting even if you are coming back over and over again. hell im even adding special actions that players will unlock as they beat key bosses. new powers anyone can use. like a custom move Slamming and the healing surge from the DMG… feewww anyway theres my rant also if you cant tell im excited to run this adventure im making.
bro I'm doing the same thing rn, mine is called "Conquer Hell", I haven't started the mapping yet as I've never mapped anything before any advice? Also, how are you handling your roguelike, for me I'm making it more of a rogue-lite there are 9 levels of hell and the PCs need to conquer all of them either through brute force or making deals with the devils in exchange for more power as to not just make it a combat only game. Also, when they die they don't restart because if only one player dies that's just kinda fucked and makes them useless, it's more so they lose one Lvl so it still punishes death but doesn't prevent recovery. If they die too many times and hit Zero they go to the abyssal plane and turn into monstrosities either that or they get stuck in Limbo and are lost for eternity idk which I'm going with yet. Thoughts?
@@anthonydeperino2046 awesome! I have only set out 4 layers of hell that need to be fought through. 5 encounters plus one boss per and honestly Hades is where I’m taking a good bit of inspiration from when it comes to the layout of it all. There will be 24 encounters that need to be beaten that include the final boss to well win. When players hit 0 they instantly die so no yo-yo healing. They get a short rest after each boss and no long rests. Once everyone dies or chooses to get called back to water deep then they get resurrected by the arch wizard of water deep that sent them on this mission in the first place. And yes this takes place in water deep so after a run or before one you have the whole city to explore or even go on an expedition outside the city if you so choose. You will have plenty of people to talk to and the more progress you make the more NPC’s come to aid you which you get perma buffs from with the amount of gold you will be getting which is a lot. Loot heavy game and I got many tables I’ll be rolling on. I really want to push the idea that you can take a break from hell rushing and you get to explore and roleplay all you want outside of hell again think of Hades how you talk to a bunch of people when you get back
@@omegadragonRandom thats a great idea, having a home base area for RP and other things is something i will incorporate into mine, thanks. but what if once they die in hell the PC's just fuck around in the overworld and ignore hell?
@@anthonydeperino2046 Oh I didn't mention WHY they are going into hell. Its a simple story to grasp so basically Zariel is forming an army to take over the material plane. So they are trying again and again to stop her by infiltrating hell. Sure they can still just run off and while these are newer players they are my friends and I can at least calmy explain to them to go through with the story I created for them to play through. I wont completely force them but hopefully everyone has respect for another and the game will go on smoothly.
I kind of like how the timer before default attack kind of encouraged the player to grow alongside their character. As your character levels up, you as a player need to also become more familiar with what they can do. a novice is more likely to just do a basic attack, and I think that represents a players indecisiveness well.
Though I think a big time sink is asking questions during your turn. Can I use this ability to do that, how far away is it, did it already use its reqction? that kind of stuff
Where can I get the meeples and hats you use?
Have you thought about doing some episodes talking about other systems and how people can take mechanics from them? Systems like Cairn and Crown & Skull are pretty cool! Love the videos!
Reading through both those rulesets now actually!
Great ideas and advice
One of the things my players do is preroll initiative
Makes for a more fluid flow into combat and narrative transitions
Love your vids! I couldn't find your email anywhere, so ima ask here: can I translate them to Russian and post on my channel?
What is the music playing in the beginning?
You mentioned you'd have some people comment alternative systems to DnD 5e but I can't find any - I would really love something sorta similar to 1e but a *bit* more advanced.
You can tinker with D&D combat, but it will never be as fast as Savage Worlds. What other system do you suggest that do combat better IYHO?
I kinda remember in DOS2 you could defer your turn until later in the round, which resulted in you permanently going to the end of the turn order (until someone did the same) but it was fun tactically. I've considered doing the same for my own table.
Damn dude - another banger video! Thanks for making this. I really appreciate your perspective, analysis, and even delivery on these topics.
Before long, you will be one of the most subscribed D&D channels on this platform, I guarantee it! Looking forward to the next video!
I would really love to see a video on your Ars Magica inspired homebrew magic for OSE!
Great video! I remember in a previous one you mentioned something about not balancing your combat encounters. I hope you get a chance to elaborate on that sometime!
Please god I need those mini stick men and I can’t find the video where he advertises them please tell me where I can get them
My dm decided to become the giant rock golem that we needed to take down. He put sticky notes on his body for the “weak points” while we had to constant dodge and move around to avoid attacks and grapples. It made a nice push and pull to the encounter that gave it a fresh spin.
I'm running a game for my youngers cousins (12 to 21) and my gf after not playing for two years (cyberpunk red kind of took over my usual group)
You sir are my hero for helping work on the things about dnd that I disliked. Please keep up the great work!
Will definitely use the toys in my next encounter. My two cents on this issue, is to hand out my reactions to both PCs and enemies, tweak them a bit to the characters class fantasy, and they will feel the need to pay more attention during combat.
This!! So far I've done abit to change combat. But spell effects weekend for cool ideas is so good!
Flour = small fog cloud
Spitting oil with fire = 1d4 burning hands
Adding non magical "spell like" effects is such a fun idea!
Will there eventually be a video about subclasses? can't wait for more!
I see a This Old Tony video in my feed, I click it. This is a new angle, and I appreciate it. Sort of out there on the sidelines, along with the pruning videos. Strange interest overlap, though, like that one time Matt Colville made a Running The Game video wearing an AvE t-shirt.
I’ve been struggling to keep my players engaged for a while now; some have stopped showing up altogether, but I think I can keep the ones I have left
Ask them "why" they stop playing. Maybe is something you did, maybe there is nothing to do with your DMing.
@@MarcioLiaoThanks! Turns out a couple of em just had other stuff going on. We had a session on Friday and everyone showed up except for one guy because he was busy camping. I think the break from playing helped, and we had some gas roleplay moments. Regardless, thank you for taking the time to give me advice; I should’ve checked the replies to this comment sooner; That advice would’ve helped a lot had I noticed it.
Question #1 to ask yourself before choosing a game system: Do I need a spreadsheet or app to keep track of all the things going on? If the answer is yes, keep looking for a better game system.
Eh, I disagree. Lots of folks love games that are that crunchy. Lancer has a very large following, and they all use Comp/CON.
That said, this is more group dependent. Some groups can't do digital aids for some reason or another. And for those crowds, a simpler system is ideal.
The flour and ale into fire idea is inspiring! Thank you! i'm totally going to look for more ways to make things exciting like that.
Playing an Oath of Glory Paladin that tries to pull shenanigans like tying a ropers arms together instead of mindlessly using great weapon master. Most fun I've ever had playing DnD.
My CoS GM had a soft counter. This meant he was kinda tolerant - if your time was out but you said you knew what your action was abs only had to check the distance for 2 sec, he'd allow it. Plus our spellcasters more or less all had a default strategy, same for our martials.
Came back to comment after my game yesterday. Our DM has built a world where random encounters happen regularly but each time they do it's in an open area and we're surrounded by monsters. Feels very SNES Final Fantasy. I recommended your tips post session so we'll see what happens!
What I love about your videos is that not only do these make me feel more prepared as a DM to make my games more fun, but they also encourage me to see where I can improve and make the game more fun for me as a player.
Suggestion house rule for environment toys in combat. Give the players one free environment action per encounter to interact with something in their environment (yes, including an attack with something in their environment that would normally require a regular action)
Your videos and delivery of lines are absolutely hilarious while also getting the point across. Keep at it man!
To be honest, even as someone who uses 5e a lot, I'm not sure it CAN be made fast. I have always been using group initiative, using a 1min timer, average damage for monsters, ect. and it still seems to drag a lot, even when something very goofy happens- Like the players setting a werewolf on fire wile their friend was pinned beneath it.
Might try the damage dice thing as well, when everyone has more experience- the player with the mod die to roll (Rouge, natch) is the lest experienced .
edit: Any advice for toy when the monsters would be dumber than the average goblin? I think spiders would know how to abuse web traps, but what about a zombie or a wolf?
The examples of simpler monsters you gave are tough ones to showcase toys. Lemme give it a shot though.
For Zombies I'd make them the toy, as in a horde of dozens or even hundreds of them as a shambling crowd that if touched, you're probably a goner. They can be used as sort of a living, moving wall as well.
Thing is, they're REALLY distracted by the closet thing, so if you can convince the hoard to pursue your enemy instead, it's almost like using a dungeon trap against the monsters.
Wolves I might give the alpha a toy in the form of them being able to speak. They apologize profusely about having to eat one of you, but if they let you go the rest of the pack will turn against them, so it's either them or you, so sorry!
For wolves, get literal with toys. The bones of their kills litter this battlefield... Oh? You want the bone? Gooooo GET IT! A quick Animal Handling check and now you have an entire new ally on the party's side
Re speeding up the game I kinda like default actions however, I'd let a player set a default action from a short list, like Dodge, Attack, Specific Cantrip vs most recent or nearest if it's offensive.
Boy, this is a tactical combat game. 95% of its content is focused on combat. Like most d20 systems (Pathfinder, Star Wars etc). If you want more narrative and quick combat - pick PbtA (Dungeon World for DnD like experience) instead of housuruling DnD to the death. If you want exploration and dungeon crawl - pick OSR rpg. Etc
You just picked wrong rpg and complaining about its mechanics - the one that suprisingly work ok. Beside of the trash rest.
Why DnD combat is long? Because it’s boring. I can assure you that Pathfinder combat is even longer but with more tactical
dept and customization - it’s not boring. It’s very engaging even if 6 second in game is 0,5 hour in real time.
But if you want 2 minutes combat - just picked other rpg, seriously.
Idk why I’m impressed so much with the bounce on the book drop at the beginning.
okay but when are you gonna show us where we can get those snazzy headpieces for the peeples?
I love the toys! Another thought... DM can have a list of pre-rolled d20 results to use for monster initiative. Anything to shave a little time off every round!
This problem is one I am also looking to solve. I'm currently working on a pen and paper game where combat is based on shonen style anime fights. The purpose is to give the players more emotion impact and improve the flow of combat.
Mechanically it's will be a combination of willpower (earned through role playing their characters motivations), environment, and having bigger combats function in phases which when shifted will trigger events that give the players more willpower and change the environment.
It's loosely based on the Mythic characters from Pathfinder but is meant to focus more of the player characters development as a tool for new abilities.
My biggest piece of advise to keep combat running smoothly is to have other players take their turns when the turn of the current one starts to drag on. So if they’re rolling for damage or looking up the effects of their spell, I’ll just jump to the next person in initiative and just loop back once they have the answer. Every’s turns are supposed to be happening concurrently anyway, so I actually like the feeling of having a few unresolved things going on during combat, where you don’t necessarily know if that monster died from an attack or the spell had the intended result.
Basically, the "TL:DR" version is:
1) Speed, & 2) improvisation
...two things that.. honestly does not work particularly well together.
Think outside the box! the world is your oyster! But you only have 30-60 seconds to do it or your autonomy is wasted this turn with your action defaulted to a set action determined by the GM. This style of combat is definitely more difficult to pull-off in practice.
Easiest style is what is commonly imagined; very laid with players being silly, goody, just having fun in the moment.
The more "try-hard" style is when players start min-maxing their characters, putting a lot of time outside-of-combat to maximize their characters potential in-combat.
This is the kind of players that I believe would actually like the turn-timer.
The more improvisation-focused approach to combat is definitely a style of combat that I personally would like to lean more towards, but it is promoting a different 'kind' of play than the min-maxing, turn-timer style of "difficult-mode" style of D&D combat.
And the most difficult would be to try to implement both styles at the same time.
At the right table with the right, experienced players, it could lead to amazing results with fast paced, inventive combat that blends strategy, tactical thinking, outside-the-box improvisation and in-combat role-play...
But it's definitely gonna take some time for players and the GM to get used to it.
Some thing I do is if a monster fails an attack, I let my players perform a counter attack to make death come quicker to the enemies and to make the fighting seem a lot more staggered, it brought a lot more variety to my game.
I may not be a DM anymore, do not have the attention soan necessary for it, this video has given me the push I needed to start thinking creatively in combat as a player, as well as the character idea for a fighter based around using the environment to your advantage
Loving the content Deficiant Master!! Your channel is definitely one of my favorite dnd content creators. I'll try sprinkling some "toys" for my players, thanks for the idea!
Your effects and transitions in this episode are on next level, you're really upping your game. Keep up the good work! 👍
Man i thought i was already subscribed to you. Better late than never!
Using terrain and toys is a great suggestion that is really hard to pull off with d&d players. So many people are rules lawyers and would find random rulings fun but broken. When I used to play Edge of the Empire the whole dice system is built around spontaneous ideas. D&D is just a bit too rules strict.
I feel like every player newbie should see your videos cause they're just so eye opening also well done on the sponsor
At some point I will just scrap some dice mechanics in combat and make people play rock/paper/scissors (+ spock/lizard) as a "clashing" turn (simultaneous attack/manoeuvres which effectiveness over your opponent depends on accuracy, speed or agility); also a guess-the-pattern (chains of «» written like five times) for anything that involves predictions, mind-reading, premonitions, etc., as failing or succeeding will result in a no-guard situation or an outsmarting move respectively.
Most of my D&D problems revolve around others players not paying attention or thinking ahead/planning during the turns of other characters. So when their turn comes they have no idea what is going on, must have the situation reiterated, and sit there trying to figure out what to do, wasting time.
Where as my mind is active during the entire encounter, I efficiently and effectively use my turn, it’s over, then I am stuck waiting for the unengaged players to take their turns, feeling like I’m not getting as much out of the game due to knowing how to play.
This video is amazing. My combat suck a lot. After many attempts to fix it hurry up player, it still doesn't work. But Toy is the way to go for me. In the next section, I'll need to place a nuke in the middle of the combat and see the chaos roll out, lol.
Dropping what I’m doing. It’s the most wonderful time of the week! Love you Deficient and the derpy dragon lol
I do like the idea of bags of flower and other interactables a lot tho!
Feels like it’s a problem with using 5e…there are more rules-lite games out there that have fewer rules and quicker combats that solve these problems.
I love these ideas on how to make combat more dynamic and cinematic. I would like to see an "actual play" where these tips are implemented. Can anyone link a video of a session where combat was exciting and not an analog version of a JRPG video game?
I love the idea of toys being a constant in combats. The addendum I would add is that in my games I tend to add choice based mechanics into my battles where enemy abilities will often give two options to deal with an ability.
in a recent set of boss fight, I had the bosses accumulate "spell points" either at the start of each turn or when conditions are met like whenever they take damage. The more points they have the stronger their powers get capping out at blasting 9th-level spells every round. Whenever a player dealt damage to the boss they could either deal damage normally or have that damage instead lower the amount of "Spell points" the boss had lowering their threat level. Its a system that still needs tweaking but it's worked well so far.
My favorite house rule to fix D&D is to play a better system.
What is better system? Why it is better?
@@realdragon pathfinder, better combat rules and doesn't collapse on itself after level 14
@@gunnellagann Too many rules, I don't want to red LoTR trilogy worth of rules and spend 20 minutes doing nothing because DM is looking up what rules are for fishing
@@realdragon there are many rules yes, but the rules are so well crafted and connected that are basically logical blocks that you link together when applying rules. That's how a good game system is made, lots of rules that are easy to apply and remember, stop defending dnd 5e
@@gunnellagann Lmao when I was "defending" 5e? You're getting offended because I don't like many rules
Just because you think it's better system it doesn't mean everybody else will like it more just like you. It is little more subjective and for me pathfinder is worse because of that
8:55 yah, just wait until you find out how flamable a flower cloud is
the wildermyth combat system has basically an entire class designed around making toys useful, and it is the magic class. it's called the mystic.
I know it slows down combat but I've been using Warhammer fantasy rpgs combat system allowing an engaging combat system with parry's, attack locations, and an advantage system making combat deadly asf
Very little will make players not do the optimal thing alas. The trick to make it better is make environment interactions and clever ideas truly worth it and also getting good at running combat quickly. While I get the complaint I don't find any of the proposed solutions useful.
Time to send another one of your videos to my DM! Thanks for another great video
That "giving out toys" thing is exactly what I'm doing in my own game. I've given a homebrew assassin a rechargable poison strike that deals an additional 1d4 damage but inflicts poison for an hour on a failed CON save. They can also throw a vial of the Malice poison once per day if needed, which will be very fun
Edit: I will eventually give my players some toys. Not yet, but soon.
I would love a video with more toys to incorporate in DND combat! This is really creative and a new GM I am feeling very uncreative with combat still. Add entirely new players to the mix and combat usually is a slog that has everyone pulled out of immersion.
i don't know if you just had incredibly bad luck or something, but for me comnbat aways felt awesome!
as a player... as the dm it does suck because you just have so few options, especially when you're about to lose
Modify the statblock
Give your monsters bonus actions and reactions to have a better action economy
Give them class levels, spells, spell-like abilities that they have to recharge, bend the rules of the game
@@andreacallegari7137 i already do some of that, but it doesn't solve the problem of what to do when you're about to lose
@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 Well, it depends on the monster and on the actions of your players. For example, regular mindless undead would fight to the death, while Turned undead would run away. Humanoids would lay down their weapons and surrender, unless they know that the party does not take prisoners, in which case they would disengage and run or fight to the death. If one of the party members falls to 0 HP, maybe the bad guy takes him hostage in exchange for a safe retreat.
But in the end, it's the Dungeon Master's job to present winnable encounters to his players. They must be challenging but fair, and it's hard to find that balance. Players are expected to win in the end, but that doesn't mean that you can't throw a couple of unwinnable encounters their way, IF YOU TELEGRAPH THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO RUN. For example, Brian Murphy threw a Deity at his level 5 players in Galaderon, but he also gave them a way to save themselves and their allies. The moment when the Chroma Conclave first shows up in Campaign 1 of Critical Role is also a "You're going to die if you don't gtfo" moment.