Cheese-Free Kislev going to the Doctor
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- čas přidán 12. 10. 2022
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On the topic of cowardly AI, they are cowardly when sieging each other too. I legit told my skaven allies to take a minor greenskin t1 settlement and they besieged it with a full stack army of decent composition. They then waited out the attrition timer for 14 turns, I wasnt paying attention because I was taking the rest of the greenskins settlements (it was the end game scenario) I literally had to request their army (thank god it wasnt their legendary lord that besieged it) and auto resolve it myself for 0 casualties, all the enemy units had like 6 models left each.
I saw that a several occasions. Makes vassals anlot less useful.
In my experience this happens more often when the enemy is down to their last settlement. The AI is reluctant to finish itself off.... don't say that out loud.
had today a ai which sieged a t3 kieslev settlement with 4 1/2 army stacks. just dumb overkill :D
@@Dhakhar I think there’s something cathartic about letting your enemies slowly starve instead of making it quick and dignified
@@Dhakhar That's something I've noticed as well. As Bretonnia I allied with the High Elves, and N'kari was down to jus Tor Achare that was corrupting the entire province, so I requested that they take him out, and they went and fought the Dark Elves on Nagarrond for a dozen turns before Alarielle brought a couple stacks over and finally finished off N'kari.
Thanks for winning that for me :), surreal to see my campaign on your channel!
For whatever it's worth, I particularly love seeing this cheese-free stuff from you, Legend. I enjoy all your content, but there's something special about seeing you just buckle down and beat the enemy in a "straight fight," so to speak. You're so god damn good at this game, it's really great to watch you shine in situations like this one.
A pity he doesnt do multiplayer battle I really think he should. I think that would be really interesting to watch especially with the nice engaging commentary he always gives us.
@@CebimdekiTelefon69 Multiplayer battles are a completely different dynamic, being great at campaign battles doesn't necessarily translate to multiplayer, and you have much less freedom in how you can build your armies because of unit costs.
@@sulphuric_glue4468 totally true. to expand upon this, even the overall win conditions are very different since in multiplayer your units are strictly expendable as they won't persist past the battle. in campaign you want to never lose units so that you can keep momentum against the enemy and build veteran doomstacks. Legend ALWAYS plays in an efficient way that enables his army to fight the next battle. His opponent is only one player: the AI. The AI is more predictable than any real player and is more stupid most of the time. It'd be impossible to reliably achieve the same level of efficient results against real players, who are often equally as intelligent, daring, flexible and most importantly FAST to react as Legend is.
I think a great contrast of Legend is the youtuber Enticity. He's top ranked in multiplayer and cut his teeth in Starcraft first, so his APM is absolutely insane - well beyond Legend's. Enticity also plays single player campaign, often with "meme builds" that have to rely on cheese. However, as a fan of Legend, I get horrified when I see how often Enticity makes sloppy plays and constantly takes excessive casualties due to being careless or frankly just bored. This speaks to the fundamental mentality of strong multiplayer players vs. campaign players. I think Enticity plays campaign with a multiplayer mindset, and doesn't really care if his units get dumpstered as long as he wins the battle... at least until a few turns later and his campaign is running out of steam and he has stacks of enemies surrounding him on the campaign map :)
Inside CA, there are two wolves. One is braindead passive and one is anti-player bias.
Nice to see an actual disaster battle again finally.
i think the solution to siege fatigue is to make minor settlements battles as land battles UNLESS the settlement has the walls building. Basically, how it works with mods. I've been playing like that for my last couple of campaigns and its way more fun.
Which mods you play with?
can you link that mod please?
@@xGery96x google it I forget the name but I had a similar one for WH2
Tbh i even think the wall building shouldn't add walls to minor settlements at all. Simply can't wall them. Just turns them into minor settlement battles at t3.
@@EmilWestrum mostly qol mods, like the settlement one or Recruit Defeated Legendary Lords, which removes most of the hustle of confederating far away lords. I'm also trying an AI mod to make the campaign a bit harder, since warhammer 3's AI is kinda... passive. Its called Ultra Agressive & Smart AI.
You can find all of them in the steam workshop, and then can activate them through the game launcher.
ROFL 'Just count your lucky stars they're even shooting at something' - Too true...
I don’t usually comment but this is the content I love. The cheese is cool and stuff but personally I play warhammer to see massive battles with a lot of action. Great video.
Dude.. thanks for the vídeo.
I've been playing a Kislev Realm of Chaos campaign for 400 turns in Legendary Difficulty.
What a f@%#$ grind....
Trying to go for full map completion, since I lost the main mission.
Holdind about 50% of the map. Gaining territory inch by inch,
But I am at war with everybody. Everybody hates me. Still haven't managed to secure any corner of the map, and fending off countless waves of enemies.
And honestly.. Kislev is so underwelming.
The only unbeatable doomstack I have is Boris, with bear riders. The other ice guards doomstacks are ok.. but far from great.
I think that once I secure a corner, things will start to improve.
Great vídeo Legend!!!!
Siege Battle Fatigue, sad that we have such a thing being so common.
I so wish they'd actually put in the work to make sieges fun in twwh3. Which from my perspective is pretty clear on how to do. However it would take an enormous amount of work, so i doubt they'll actually do it.
For those curious: remove ass-ladders, make ladders visible and buildable on units like other siege equipment, only allow siege attackers to attack gates, make the distance to the walls greater but nerf towers a bit, certain stalking units can have grappling hooks, attacker needs to hold majority points to win on points (no longer this weird 2 mandatory point system). Could also allow artillery on the walls. Would make holding the walls actually worthwhile and both attacking and defending interesting (i remember well that back in medieval 2 I actually was looking forward to sieges... Crazy i know)
Nice job! Especially managing to save each unit! 10/10
It never ceases to amaze me how well this man plays the game. What a legendary chap.
This battle was the most "similar" to the situations I find myself in!
Can't really cheese your way out of it ! Just straight positioning and strategy
to quote legend from before"when people call it cheese it's really just playing to your strengths". given this, why do you choose to play in a way that doesn't capitalize on your strengths?
I understand the temptation to roll an army like this because "I want to have a solution for any tactical situation" but if you always play the game like this you end up with 5/10 armies with the same kind of strengths and weaknesses regardless of faction. Why not choose the alternative: building cost effective 8/10 armies that have a tactical weakness that can be worked around with good strategic decisions? isn't that what strategy games are all about?
*tactics
@@berrywarmer11 capitalising on the fact I am human and the AI is AI is capitalising my strengths but it's not fun for me.
I would rather the game created a challenge that I can defeat with the tools they give me! Not by abusing the faults in their work to win.
@@MonlopoMAN that's fair, to each their own. Whatever you find to be fun is the most important!
The problem is the new AI behavior design. On normal difficulty tooltip it states that the AI is more prone to make risky decitions or something to that effect which translates to making more aggressive moves and attacking even if victory is not assured. On higher difficulties it basically wont attack unless the AI is in a distinct advantage. Its not a difficult fix. They already have the AI blueprint from WH2 so it should be fixed by the patch on the 18th.
What really worries me are these horrible minor sieges and what they might do to try and fix them. I hate everything about them The mapdesigns are usally not fun to play on. Responsiveness and pathing is sketchy. The mechanics for winning are boring, the build slots make no sense and the towers are just frustrating. Making them less frequent wont be nearly enough. I understand that some people enjoy them and thats fine, but for me and probably many others their solution will make or break the game.
Pretty well nailed it for me.
Sketchy is a massive understatement for pathing lol. It's absolutely horrible. I couldn't take it anymore and downloaded a mod that completely gets rid of minor settlement battles.
100% agree with the AI, it seems that they all just come straight for you again now. Which can be sometimes easy or hard. The problem with that though is that they become predictable and you end up either getting overwhelmed or being able to beat the same enemies in exactly the same fashion every time you play.
in my Kroq gar campaign all lizardmen Legednary lord's declared war on me, except for Nakai.
As a newish player, I apprehend the moment I discover a new faction. Half of the time I end up with another war the next turn... And you are right, playing Snikch in Cathay there is a real fatigue building up. You fight exactly the same comps, in the same settlements, on all sides. I felt like I was doing the same thing for 60 turns and just went full auto resolve so I could finally dunk with Grimgor and Chaos.
@@PolishEngineer456 Nakai's got your back. Unless hes dead which is often the case in my games lol
@@thomaswiegele9802 Yeah i wish CA would make the AI a bit more random and not always so player focused. I mean make it difficult for the player at times sure but why an AI would just declare war as soon as they see you is kinda stupid.
Great stuff man, keep it up.
if only GOT writers took some notes from you on how to properly use cavalry
Oh man, I love your profile picture placement in the thumbnail. It makes it seem like it was meant to be there.
about this army. is barely better than basic kossar spam but its fairly more expensive. adding frost maiden and patriach ( ideally 2 little groms) would make it stronger big time and cost effective
I mostly skip armored kossars because of their low unit count it doesn't give them enough sustaining power at the front. Just spam strelcis or ice guard if youcan and you re mostly set.
Yeah armored Kossars are shit line holders and expensive, not worth it imo
totally agreed with OP, hard to argue with a tier 1 unit that's dirt cheap yet has a bow that outranges many units and also can easily take out many other tier 1 units in a strict melee on their own right. @ MadKoala: not sure what's up with y'all players who be relying on streltsi so much. streltsi are so fkin expensive, have annoying line of sight problems, and even if you get them to sit there and shoot w/o obstructions they're still doing about the same mount of raw DPS as a kossar unless you can find an armored target for a streltsi to shoot at...
Danke, Herr Doktor
Thanks for the vids legend.
A field battle in warhammer 3?! What witchcraft is this?
Great battle
i relate alot to how you descibed the ai in wh3 towards the end there
Glad to know someone else also finds the bubbling of Festus' cauldron in the pre-battle screen annoying
They need an aim but don't move hot key. Guard mode worked that way in TWWH2 but in 3 all guard mode does is make it so your units drop orders more.
Cheese free is Fkn entertaining
This one had me sweating.
18:50 lol Kraka Drak at the Moot. How the heck did it happen?
Speaking of siege-battle fatigue; Currently playing as Karaz-A-Karak, about turn ~110, and I haven't played a single siege, neither offensive nor defensive. I just cba, hate them so much...
On the topic of the ai- holy shit are they fucking annoying. If you cant hit them and wipe them out on the first attack, they'll run around the damn map away from you, even abandon their own cities. Or even worse they'll try to move past your army and sack the settlement right behind your army. Like dude I'm gonna crush your army if you do that why do you have to be so fucking annoying about it haha. But seriously in big open areas of the map the ai is so frustrating to deal with
It's kind of bloody pathetic that the proper way to use gun units is to pray that they shoot. Bloody hell.
17:50 Honestly this seems to be the problem with Warhammer 3 in general. Too many of the changes made since WH2, presumably for the sake of "balance" or plugging holes for "cheese", have served only to reduce the possibility of *fun*. Like the changes to starting army composition (removal of high tier siege attackers) and the accompanying "gift" of the Siege Attacker trait to all LLs. It makes the early game so much more boring.
Kislev's units seem to genuinely punch at or above their weight class at least.
LEGEND LEGEND !!!
I dont know if they carried the latest Warhammer 2 AI to Warhammer 3, but latest warhammer 2 AI is not fun as well.
Here is its logic:
They are not playing to win, they are solely playing to be a nuisance. Undefended small cities? Force march all your forces to there, while your main Tier 5 capital is falling to player or another AI. Long term, they have no chance of surviving or finishing off the player. Since AI also has maphack, any not ambushed army, they try to avoid without seeing. If player ignores their armies, and stop going off a wild goose chase, even the strongest factions like Grimgor, Malekith rapidly falls, taking away the challenge of the game.
I would have no problem with small factions doing those guerilla tactics, but big empires doing this stupid shit to their own demise really makes the game unfun.
I just finished a Kislev campaign and had a ton of battles just like this. Kislev does better than you would think but it's never pretty.
Good job Legend, balanced armies really suck
This is some lactose-intolerant stuff.
Why not cheese? Just tolerate it
Huge amount of this games problems would be solved if the AI would just sally out and attack even if they have a close defeat. People that auto everything would still take mass attrition and be slowed down by it, but the number of field battles would skyrocket. As is it's just really not very much fun to play a campaign in WH3.
I would have named the video Lactose-tolerant Kislev going to the doctor 😊
There are quite a few lactose free cheeses btw
AI besieging settlements are more aggressive in WH2.
Holy shit festus is scary and also his name autocorrect to death
Honestly this feels like how CA tried to make the game work
They should be given option to play it as a field battle or siege battle, though for sure CA would not admit that they made a fail design but most likely say something as "the intention of making siege different did not suit the player's expectation. "
Seems to just be an unfortunate map for a ranger based army, a good defensive position probably would have made this battle a non issue. I wish WH3 didn’t have these maps which have ok hills but then use small saddles and ridges to make ranged units difficult to use
The lightning during the battles in this game is terrible, especially that bloom because of different types of corruptions
A stupid AI is bad, but this warhammer total war has something worse, they made a boring warhammer game. Shameful Display.
Personally never cheese myself. So I like these battles where you have to use all your little tools together to get results even though some tools in the army maybe better than others.
Cheese just is using tools the their most effect
wooo first!