5 Tips for Foreshadowing a Villain in Dungeons & Dragons
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- There are many ways to foreshadow a villain in Dungeon & Dragons, but how should a dungeon master foreshadow a Big Bad in D&D? There are a variety of ways to foreshadow BBEGs in roleplaying games, but not all of them are effective as others. In this video, I discuss five ways to foreshadow villains, two of which I strongly suggest NOT doing, as they are foreshadowing pitfalls.
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#dnd #dungeonsanddragons - Hry
How do you foreshadow a Big Bad?
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do you use music in your games? if so can you direct me to somewhere where i can get some atmospheric music/combat music etc please.
Fireball at level three?
I get this impression this was more a list of things not to do, rather than a list of things to do... and that the actual advice was in the Lord Paxton example.
I get out of this feeling this video acknowledges that I sometimes have tough dilemmas, and yes, I have a fair grasp of things I should avoid doing. But... this was more tips on what to avoid than actual good ideas aside from the example... which I've heard of before.
So, sadface.
___________________________
This said, I can share one frustration of mine. At some point in my current game, my 10th level group got outmaneuvered. They infiltrated a castle keep on a rescue mission, only to be ambushed right and left... and ended up herded where the ruler's held court, expecting them. Cue the realization of a big upset, reveal than a trusted NPC ally present with them was possessed and actually now a double agent. They'd been outmaneuvered, a valued ally stolen from them... and I asked them what they would do? Fight? make a running battle for their objective anyways? Flee?
I knew for a fact that the Cleric in the group had Word of Recall ready. I was counting on it. I had subtly encouraged them to prepare ahead of time for their time in there, foreshadowing they were in going to a primary enemy stronghold and that things could go wrong quickly. There was that Word of Recall, they had invisibility potions they crafted after being gifted with pixie dust. They had the means to fly. They could relocate to bottlenecks and try to hold their ground if they wanted the stalwart go-down-fighting solution; they had plenty of healing available to hold out.
I built on the suspense of the moment and spurred them to action: "What do you do?" And they gaped, at a loss for words. The compromised NPC, under duress, still encouraged them to flee. They just stand there, missing their window of action, and I eventually have NPC guards collect them to imprison them.
The imprisonment was not something I was too bothered with. I had planned ahead, and knew it could happen as well, along with some ideas on how a jailbreak could entertain them (incidentaly, this placed them next to the person they were supposed to rescue, so their escape didn't mark a complete failure of their mission).
What annoyed me, though, was how I expected to reward their precautions. After that session, I asked my players why they just sat there and *took* it in the face. Yes, they had been stunned - they admitted - but even worse... they thought it was a cutscene.
It. Wasn't. A. Cutscene! I wanted to reward player agency, not railroad them. Listening to DM Lair videos inspired me to make my scenarios "situations" rather than encounters so I wouldn't just drag them by the nose through the solutions I expected them to do. It was just disappointing, and perhaps a stab on how I've run things before... something I've done in the past coming back to haunt me.
_______________________________
I don't feel my summary entirely conveys this, but I've faith that this was a good twist. But it could have been *great*... and this cutscene assumption from my players dashed my enjoyment of it. I need to be able to do better the next time I set something like this up.
This is why I appreciate videos like these. I do, this time, emerge having more questions than answers... but still, thank you for being here to give us this kind of advice.
I like to have them interact with him when they just can't know he is the big bad - Like maybe he is somebody who hires them (or tries to) to go on a quest to retrieve an item. That item could look innocent in the first place, but later would be playing a huge roll in his plans for conquering the world. And by the time the players found out they inadvertantly helped the villain it is too late for them to do anything about it.
Or they meet him, but not in a fight or something, but in a social encounter. Like he could be one of the advisors of the king and be present in an audience or they are fighting in an arena and he is one of the people in the audience or the players and the villain are both invited as guests by an important person. That way the villain could be forshadowed in his conversation with the players and the other characters and they could still act, but just fighting him would be taken away as a viable option as the situation would mean there would be dire concequences to starting a fight.
The opening skit reminds me of Matt Colville's intro for Kalarel the Vile, any inspiration?
If the party can take on the bbeg at third level without getting totally owned, the DM needs some more practice in designing their bbegs...
Or maybe be more discerning on player’s OP character builds. (I'm looking at you, Grapple Monk! 👁)
Legendary Actions x 1-3
Legendary Resistance x 1-3
Martial BBEG?
Adamantine Armor
Spellcaster BBEG?
Robes of the Archmage
@@Battleguild at level 3 a fireball can take most of them out haha, just leave them on the ground dieing and have him say: "if you survive I may find some use for you in the future" and lettem roll death saves kek
The bbeg can just cast wall of fire and envelop the party, there is really not much a party can do at level 2
@@andragonm8932 Except die!
Some of my players have trouble recognizing villains who don't run around going "Muahaha, look at me being Evil!", and I have absolutely capitalized on that in the past in order to have them meet and chat with major antagonists. Though at one point this did backfire a little when one of the PCs decided to hook up with the BBEG. It led to strange and interesting shenanigans, the BBEG being able to pin everything on a lesser antagonist, and the two of them sailing off into the sunset on his airship while the reanimated corpses of his previous victims (the mysterious unseen crew) danced to the Love Boat theme. The player seemed okay with this.
I want a novel of this.
Strahd is one of the only go to where I think having him regularly interact with the players works. It actually works with his character because he is a narcissistic bully who doesn't think that anybody could ever harm him. It gives the players personal incentive to track down the magic items needed to defeat him.
Also he controls the place, they can't run from him and even if he is defeated he still recovers and can come back anytime.
A scene like dinner with Strahd needs to be handled with finesse, though. Many players or PCs (given a particular personality/build) would find dinner with Strahd incredibly frustrating and not fun or automatically exclusionary.
For instance, why would Grimlock Axebeard, uncompromising angry drunk dwarf barbarian, even attend? Story-wise it makes sense for him not to be there as he's only going to cause massive trouble but this means that the player's going to need something else to do. So plan that to happen when the player's going to be absent or late or enlist the player to play the creepy butler for a bit. Or have Strahd tailor things for each PC. Or... well you know your players.
The DM really needs to play the whole thing more like a monster movie with some lightness and behind the scenes wink and a nod, or it just turns into grinding gloom or constant situations of plot overriding player agency.
Yeah, Strahd is fun, as he's designed to be able to show up, say some stuff, show the party they need some level and item grinding, spare them, refuse to elaborate, and leave.
Also misty escape can save his ass. My 4th or 5th level Paladin smited him right back to Ravenloft once.
Wizard of the Coast way: put the main villain in the adventure's cover
My one personal gripe with curse of Strahd... place the big bad evil guy right on the bloody cover with his name and everything in the title...
@@roland4618 I mean... the module never makes him out to be a secret entity, there is no mystery about him being the big bad. And don't the players find out his name in chapter 1?
I honestly like how storm king’s thunder does it, I didn’t even see it for a while
Lost Mines of Phandelver disagrees
@@offspringfan100 unless you make Venomfang the BBEG ;)
Barbarian: your not very good at this dungeons and dragons thing
Hold on, you don't know what you're talking about. That's luke heart, he's been a dungeon master since high-school!
He's a high school since Dungeon Master!
That’s high school, he’s been a luke hart since dungeon master
Everytime he says this, I hope he's being sarcastic.
“Enough of the stupid skits”? Dude, I never will say that, your skits are entertaining!
Thanks! 😀
Skits are the best half of the videos. Helps give us an example to be ourselves.
Part of the lesson to be learned from the skits is how not to play the game. :-)
Skits are the best
They're pretty cringe
My personal favourite is for the BBEG to leave a trail of destruction that the players can follow. For example a mad wizard who releases magical plagues on unsuspecting towns trying to perfect the technique and when the players arrive they find his notes strewn about in some cottage.
I did a bunch of different things in my current campaign to introduce the Big Nice Goodie Guy (a Bronze Dragon, players are playing pirates).
They first got some info from their captain, who wants to kill it.
They later had something about it in a museum during a heist quest.
Some time later they had a personal encounter but managed to remain incognito, and lastly they found a pirate adrift, a survivor from the dragon's attack on his ship.
When the survivor told his story, instead of me telling what happened, I gave the players NPC statblocks to run in a fight against the dragon in a flashback. This got them the chance to see the dragon fight and maybe start thinking of a strategy, and it let me run the dragon. Plus, one of the NPCs I gave them succeeded his death saves, so that was the survivor, and they got a strong crewman out of it.
Sorry I am stealing your idea, that's a very good one 😁
Oh, _that's_ a cool idea. I am so using that.
that flashback idea is genius
If the definition that we are using for Cutscene is "The part of the game where the Dungeon Master talks and the players listen.", then of course I agree that it is not necessarily fun to experience. However, we already have the solution to this problem that can make cutscenes fun for the group. Allow the players to interact with the cutscene instead of gawking.
When I had a villain enter a scene and start doing dastardly deeds while proclaiming his greatness to everyone present (players included), one of my players said "I'd like to cast lightning bolt at this guy." Do you know what my response was? It was not "You can't do that, this is a cutscene." Instead, I said "roll damage." There is no rule stating that the players cannot participate in the dungeon master's cutscenes.
In fact, sometimes, cutscenes can be designed to be interactive, such as what you describe when the rogue interacts with a trap. You could start describing the environment and inclusing a 'click' or similar sound in there. The player gets a bonus to their save if they react correctly (i.e. get out of the trap's area, block the arrow trap with a shield or similar object, etc.) or penalty if they react poorly (i.e. actually put themselves in the trap's trajectory, jump towards the pit, etc.) or didn't react at all, if you made it obvious enough.
Credit: That example is the 'Click Rule' borrowed from Dael at Monarch's Factory. I haven't playtested it yet, but it seems like a fun dynamic.
I see a fake villain to throw us off the trail of the real one. I see your meta plot for the skits now Luke! Well played. (Starts going back through older skits to find foreshadowing that secretly point toward Fat Cat or old man commoner being the main villain of the skits.)
I'm waiting for the warlock to come back as the Silent Shadow or something.
My foreshadowing is so next level but it will take you years to analyze all my past skits and find it. Best of luck to you. :-)
@@theDMLair And you have to view them in intended order, and not production or release order, don't you.
I had a campaign where the players were just like what you were doing in the beginning of the video (i.e. murder hoboing), so about half way through the campaign I switched it up where the players were the bbeg's and didn't realize it.
How did that work out?
@@theDMLair They would hear distorted rumors about a group of villians pillaging and assume it was the original BBEGs minions. Along the way they fought what they thought were the minions of the bad guy but were mercenaries hired by the people and nobles to stop the rampaging player characters. When they confronted the BBEG it thanked them for doing all the dirty work destabilizing the forces of good making it easier for it to take control.
The real kicker is there were no "evil" aligned players in the party, they were all either chaotic neutral or chaotic good, but their interpretation of 'chaotic' meant they could do as they pleased.
@@hikikomicklori9290 showing the consequences of 'chaotic neutral' one campaign at a time. Thank you!
~Dan
@@hikikomicklori9290 should've have them face an entire mob ready to kill them
@@AvenueStudios Yeah, I feel like too many people don't really take the time to read into what those alignments actually mean. I can see why so many DM's avoid using the system entirely. To me, Someone who is neither good nor evil means that they aren't particularly malicious but also don't really have any reasons to step into defend innocents who are being attacked or wronged. I'd think that a character with that alignment would need some kind of self-serving motivation to do so. Chaotic Neutral PC's can still be viable "Heroes" if played correctly.
Unfortunately, some players just want to murder everyone and everything regardless of what their alignment is. I'd say, in that case, talk to a DM about maybe putting together an evil campaign. You can murder to your hearts content... or just go play Skyrim and lay waste to Whiterun like any other well adjusted human being. :P
He’s a necromancer. When they killed him, his “clone” spell activates :)
It was just one of his (many) doppelganger henchmen.
Or right as his health is low 25% or something a contingency spell activates.
oh look at that, it's everyone from your hometown, but zombies.
*cheerful music*
@@FrostSpike Handsome Jack here, and I approve of this idea. (Or am I and do I?)
The Necromancer's Boss Who The GM Totally Did Not Just Make Up Just Now: "What? My figurehead was killed in a tavern brawl? It is time to escalate. Bring out the skeleton dragon!"
I kinda use cutscenes, I just don’t let them have an enormous impact on the story. At the end of all of the sessions, I use little “epilogues”, where I show that the world that they are in is constantly changing. Usually it’s to foreshadow something, but sometimes it’s to show how they’ve impacted the world. The epilogues aren’t long either, I try to keep them short.
My DM introduced Strahd after we just finished a large battle, and at that point whe had already almost gotten our asses handed to us by a vampire spawn, so when he rocked up with his vampire possie and most of us were at 1 hp, he had the perfect opportunity to talk down to us
The "fake BBEG" technique was used in Final Fantasy 6 quite effectively. I remember being shocked when Kefka betrayed and murdered Emperor Ghestal.
And for an example where it was used a little less effectively. FF9 and the Necron fight, I love that game but having some rando come out of the woodwork after the Kuja fight and be like "I was behind it all" LITERALLY OUT OF NOWHERE was a little headache inducing
If the evil villain is super powerful, then what's to say they dont have powerful allies that could do something like ya know resurrection. Most villains are gonna have back up plans in case something goes really wrong.
Or you know, they're a lich or some other critter that simply doesn't stay dead.... or a magic clone an illusion.... OooOOoooOOOOoooh Spooopy!
I really want to run a game where the BBEG has a necromancer working for him
BBEG dies and now the necromancer decides to take over, using zombie BBEG to enforce his rule
@@minnion2871 Funny you should mention that! My players met an "ally" they later discovered was a lich but is helping them against a mutual threat. They sent her a message and an illusion of her appeared, asking what they needed to assist on their quest. One of the party members asked for diamond dust. "Hold out your hands." And the illusion holds our hand and upends it, pouring the requested dust into the PC's hands. 2 of players audibly gasped at the power that would take. They never talked about turning on her again after that (the mutual threat arc was the conclusion of that campaign or they may well have resumed eventually).
Having the powerful ally take over and become the new BBEG is also a really interesting idea. It lets the campaign continue while still allowing the player's victory to have a noticeable effect on the world.
The last campaign I was part of did this. We fought ( and won) a battle against a resurrected evil king, but his right hand man just escaped to resurrect him again causing our group to search for a spell of true banishment and make everybody do the big forget of the bad guy.
My tip: Make them someone inconsequential that they might even forget that was affected by the player’s actions and wants revenge.
Oof, that one's brutal
Like the potato girl from Dingo Doodles?
Goliath Barbarian was very surprised when he tried grappling a 12-14yo girl who had just killed a beholder, a fomorian, 12 orcs and a bassilisk. He rolled a 24 strength check, but unfortunately the polymorphed ancient dragon rolled a 31 and she just twisted his arm, grabbed the giant crystal and walked out... with half the party stuck in a force cage.
@Trin Silvers Nice. I usually use just some random schlep to do it like a family dies in a raid the players mess up and their son is a wizard in traing who is sent over the edge when they hear the news. Or the players are defending a village from orcs at level 3 and a peasant girl gets killed, sending a random knight in training into the arms of Asmodeus or even a random bandit group you beat at level 1 that stumbles on a magical artifact in long-forgotten ruins that causes them to kill each other until one is left who now feeds on the souls of the living using the said artifact.
I like it because it keeps the villain out of the party’s reach and allows the villain to grow in power along with the party while giving your party an organically personal connection to the villain.
Yes absolutely love all these ideas! The payoff for a setup like this would be so delicious muahaha!
~Dan
Luke: And you’re probably saying, “Enough if the stupid skits, just give us the 5 tips.”
Me: Enough of the tips! *draws dagger* Now it’s stabby stabby time!!!!
Ummm I like the stupid skits.
Everyone stabby stabby this guy.
The perfect comment doesn't exi.......
By the gods, he's done it, the mad lad's done it!
“Use cutscenes”
“Don’t use cutscenes, ever!”
Whaaaaaaat?
Use them in a situation the players can't do anything about like if they are scrying or stuck behind a wall of force the bbeg made.
Never do it in a situation where the players can hurt them or have an opportunity to intervene. But most times, it's better to not do it at all.
I have made an agreement with my players that there will be cutscenes, aka things happening while the characters don’t interact, in order to have interesting things happen and stuff that would mechanically not work otherwise. The condition is, that I allow the characters to act at the next best possibility. This way you can cutscene travel, story points, events etc. without having the PCs on constant pressure to find a way to impose their will on the world all the time.
Example:
You have been taken prisoner, you are taken in front of a judge and he hears you. Then you get thrown into jail. The first day passes and after the sunlight has faded, someone throws a little metal object into your cell - what do you do?
This way we avoid any and all stupid „they will never take me alive“ and „I hold the judge hostage to get out“ attempts, because my players know I will throw them a rope... or a key to their cell in this case.
I like writing short stories or just a few sentences of a conversation that the PCs aren't actually privy to, that I send to an archive channel. Players are okay with it because they enjoy narrative, but it really depends on the table!
@@Nepfbert That's a really good way to do it, especially because it opens up the possible range of stories you could tell. It requires trust on the part of players but in this case cutting down on the "you'll never take ME alive!" mentality that some players have helps because you did it really quickly.
sooo this is bad news for me. Im about to dm a one shot next week and it has a cutscene at the start.. the rest is all 100% player though. im worried now
I did a campaign once with the "BBEG meets PCs at low level" thing and, in my own opinion, it worked quite well. What I did was have the BBEG command three adult black dragons to descend on a town from across a canyon, and when the PCs finally tracked him down, he's guarded by six black half-dragon elite warriors. The PCs tried to negotiate, the BBEG ignores them, then the PCs attack and are held at bay by the elite warriors for a few rounds, when suddenly the BBEG says "there it is", transforms into an ancient black dragon, and flies towards the town. The elite warriors back down, even though they clearly had the upper hand, and one of them warns the PCs to not get involved in stuff way over their heads, before black wyverns descend and, with the warriors mounting them, fly off. By the time the PCs get back to the ravaged town, they learn about the thing the BBEG was after, all the bad news that would come with him obtaining it, and set the PCs on the path to try and stop him. In this event, I think the thing that worked was that the BBEG wasn't focused on the PCs, he had his own goals, and he had the entourage fitting a guy of his status.
As for cutscene, I think I've only found one instance in ANY game, not just D&D, that I think made sense, and that's in Assassins Creed (2 and Revelations to be precise). When Ezio sneaks through a vent or whatever and eavesdrop on the bad guys doing their planning. I think the way to make that kind of scenario work in D&D (purely speculative here, I've never used cutscenes before and I doubt I ever will, but IN CASE I DO, this is how I'd go about it) is to either have the meeting room be very well guarded so even if the PCs crash the meeting there's a high possibility of TPK and not doing squat to stop the bad guys; or, have the bad guys' plans be already in motion, so even if the PCs take out the bad guys then and there all they're doing is wasting time while the evil plan is wreaking havoc elsewhere, perhaps in the hometown of one or more of the PCs, giving the PCs an invested reason to leave the BBEG alone for the time being and focus on stopping the bad things currently happening.
"I'm sure that there is someone that made a cutscene work and they will let me know down in the comments."
Yup, i did one once, and my players LOVED it. Allow me to elaborate.
Homebrew campaign. Two of the PC's were brothers from a noble family, the BBEG was their 3rd brother, a mage tyrant who was gathering ridiculous amounts of magical energies to reshape the world into a formal version of itself (which had previously been turned inside out, long story).
The players met by happenstance a legendary NPC, the Phoenix, a girl blessed/cursed to live infinite lives. She is thousands of years old and one of the single most powerful pyromancers in the history of the world. They didn't know it was her at first but that had heard stories about her and pieced it together eventually and somehow, through really good role play and amazing persuasion rolls, convinced her to join their cause.
Not long after that however, on their way back to headquarters, BBEG brother #3 teleports in front of them, having just absorbed a massive amount of magical energy, he was going to end them once and for all. Characters at this point are about level 5. BBEG does a shockwave and everyone fails their saves and gets knocked back/prone.... everyone that is except for the Phoenix, resisting the magical effect as flames erupt from her and fiery wings form on her back. The BBEG's smile drops as he begins to realize just WHO PRECISELY he just pissed off!
The Phoenix and the BBEG break out into an almost DBZ style magical battle that takes to the sky as i activate my cutscene and describe for the next 2-3 mins the ridiculous battle taking place in front of them, putting into perspective what kind of power they are dealing with. The battle ends with the BBEG exhausted, but the Phoenix mortally wounded. BBEG teleports away to recharge as the Phoenix asks the PC's to scoop up her ashes and take them with them. She dies and her body magically catches on fire.
A few days later the Phoenix reemerges from the ashes, but she is a toddler. She retains her memories but explains that it takes several years after she dies to get her powers back. They kept the Phoenix as as ally but this event also caused her to not be able to use her crazy power for their own benefit.
Like i said, my players LOVED this event, it really put into perspective the kind of power they are contending with, while simultaneously making them freak out and wonder how they are going to deal with that. It also allowed me to roll with the fact that they befriended a Legendary hero of old without it derailing the campaign or her being too powerful and overshadowing the PC's, as now the best she can do for them is give them advice and tell them stuff about history.
Well played. That is not easy to do.
I haven't cutscene'd, but I have made a "DMPC" and made it work, contrary to every YT channel ever. We're just that amazing, I guess :P
@@danielpayne1597 We take turns being the DM and all use DMPC's as well. The trick is for the DMPC to not be a leader and if the PC's ask for his opinion or a vote or something, have them give answers that make sense for the character but not necessarily for the situation.
My last DMPC was a nerdy, pessimistic weakling of a warlock. Everything always sounded like a bad idea that was going to get them killed and he spoke like Jason Funderberker from Over the Garden Wall. He was fun to play.
@@Zarkonem Exactly what I did. Getting to play the game as a PC while DMing is fine if you focus on the other players and use your character to provide information and entertainment. My players love my character.
i never dmpc a rogue, my party are too paranoid, so if my dpmc checks for a trap on a thing, whether or not there is one they just "know" it has a trap
@@MsXmaster666 I DID DMPC a rogue, but he was a goblin that was very simple minded and just wanted to help the "humies" to earn "shinies" from them by doing "the poke poke". He almost never did anything without being instructed by the other PC's and if they asked him things he would usually tell them "Me no know, me goblin!"
Such a character might not be all that fun to play by normal standards, but as a DMPC, he was perfect.
I like the "Shadowy figure on a distant hill taking notes of the party mid-battle then disappearing shortly after being noticed" approach to showing the players that something or someone is taking notice of them...
Also, I like calling for random perception checks in the middle of a fight to see how the players react. Plus having the BBEG's minions far away stops them from repeating that time they broke into a high-level dungeon, repaired the escape teleportation circle early, then teleported the dragon boss to a field full of battle-ready adventures who quickly dealt with it.
In my campaign I revealed the BBEG very early in the campaign. While the bard of the group was fainted near the BBEG's lair (the BBEG is an aboleth), Nashor (the aboleth), tried to corrupt the bards minds but was stopped by the bard's guardian spirit. Now the bard is still asleep and the party is going to a quest to find a powerful priest that can help their friend
You know what works better than I ever imagined in my Curse of Strahd campaign? Letters. After Death House my party found a picnic basket with a letter saying "Welcome to Barovia." signed by Strahd...and promtly sent an imp to Castle Ravenloft with a reply. They keep having corespondences with the Big Bad now
Nice. My PCs have done something like that after discovering the Bad Guys have lawyers. They exchange very polite letters, and on one occasion, even a contract.
Cutscenes can work if you make them very sparse and very short, also always at the end of the sessions and of events far away from the players. I've been running a campaign for ~4 months now and I've only done 2 cutscenes, the first one showed an NPC get murdered by a mysterious figure that they would learn about next session anyway; and the next showed a villain ordering 1 known minion and 1 unknown minion after the party, which they'll face only a few sessions later.
If you make em small, to the point, out of the way, and reserved, like end-credits scenes, this can work wonders for boosting player engagement. With just that first cutscene alone I managed to create a wave of out of session theorizing in the group that only made everyone more excited to come back next game, especially so when I started to leave breadcrumbs of who the killer was through the next sessions that provoked even more questions.
The TL;DR is this:
Cutscenes can work IF:
--They are very short (2-3 minutes MAX)
--They deal with information the PC's already know about, while also introducing new and vague unknowns into the mix
--They happen at the END of the sessions
--They are a rare occurrence
--Any information gleaned from the cutscenes by the players is introduced to the PC's soon after in the next session(s)
There are a lot of restrictions you need to follow, but it can work *wonders* if you do it right.
I have had success with cut scenes through dream sequences. What sells it is to make it disorienting and change perspectives.
Player: "I walk up to the bar and order an ale."
DM: "The bartender turns around and pours you an ale. When he turns back you see that it's you, and now you are serving that ale to a tall male elf with a goatee. He says thank you."
What I would avoid is direct conversations. It ends up being far too direct or annoyingly coy.
You have to have a reason for these dreams though. So far I've used it for an Aasimar PC getting info from their Celestial, and for a Warlock getting info from their patron.
I plan to use a cut scene in the next session or two of my Dragon Heist campaign. If/when a PC attunes to the Stone of Golorr they will see some moments from it's history to clue them in on the greater plot.
Would be interesting if instead of telling everyone who the big bad is have them meet the big bad in an auction, where the players have a chance to bid against the big bad on a McGuffin.... Or they could just sit back and save their money to make a bid on that +1 longsword, or some trinket or item that would normally be beyond their budget at the time.....
I have a feeling/theory that cutscenes can be used to make the players curious (not the PCs).
What if you had a cutscene that's happening with somewhere else that lasts no more than 1 minute. The thing that happens in that cutscene is mundane but a bit ominous. Like a halfling with brown hair walks down a dark alley and bumps into a hooded figure. The figure apologizes and leaves and the halfling gets back to walking only to realize that there's a letter in his hand. Then the cutscene ends and it's back to PCs and all questions of "What was that about?" is met with vague non-answers. "Trust me, it'll make sense later" or "Oh don't worry about it, it's nothing."
I personally feel that a cutscene like this (done better than the example given above) can be used to make the players suspicious and want to figure out what the heck the cutscene was all about.
The problem is that I have never done this, I have never heard anyone do this, I have never heard anyone suggest doing this and I have not personally seen anything like this in any other media. I think it is very easy to do wrong and doing it wrong would probably just annoy the players and make the story worse on top of all the cutscene problems Luke mentions in the video.
Cutscenes in general are a bad idea I think and the hypothetical use I mentioned may not even work as intended. I just believe that they can be used this way to great effect if the DM really really REALLY know what he's doing and trying this without knowing what he's doing can go very poorly. I don't use cutscenes because I don't believe I am an amazing enough DM is successfully pull it off.
In the fan made JJBA ttrpg show “Carbon Interface” the DM is reallyyyyy good at seeding these scenes in. Albeit they are streaming these and the players are amazing role players and patient. These scenes are still wonderful, and I think it grabs everyone’s attention.
@@ryedj707 What's a JJBA TTRPG show?
@@Zulk_RS its just a tabletop “system” - like dungeons and dragons, warhammer, pathfinder, etc. - which was made based off JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure by fans of the show. They have my personal favorite tabletop show - and by show I’m talking about streams of them playing the game like critical role for example - but I’m also a major JoJo fan, so that could be a big reason. JJBA Carbon Interface is on the “Stabbyness” twitch/channel I think if you do end up interested in checking it out.
@@Zulk_RS I think, if you keep them short (like your example), you can absolutely make them work. Basically, limit it to one (MAYBE two) actions that you're describing in detail. Of course, there are two pitfalls that I can think of off the top of my head:
1) If you have too many details, your players will 100% latch onto the wrong ones.
2) If you have too many details, your cutscene will be too long and the players will get bored.
3) Even if all of the details are relevant, if you have too many, the players will get bored and miss some.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with story moments. Players can literally do whatever they want for 99.99% of the game. The DM has to have their fun too and contribute to the plot.
I tend to agree only in the case that the DM doesn’t get out of hand or is showing something players will actually care about. Generally BBEG’s are not good story moment focuses because players are the heroes and want/should be the focuses of the game.
However, putting the focus on a beloved npc/town the players met/passed by some time ago, and showing them suffering or coming across some plot relevant thing due to the BBEG is amazing fun for players.
Also, I love introducing new PCs through slightly scripted “movie moments” where the new PC gets to be the lead decision maker and feel awesome and important coming into the game.
I have my fun by setting up the situations and then running the game and RPing the NPCs as the resulting story unfolds. That's my contribution to the story.
I think cutscenes can be used in moderation and with common sense. A defeated enemy transforming dramatically into a monster for round 2 of the fight is fine, players shouldn't be allowed to exploit something that is obviously just meant to increase immersion and beat the shit out of the boss while he trasnforms. That said, an enemy escaping in a cutscene while players aren't allowed to try and stop him, or an npc killing another in dramatic fashion while everyon just stands there and watches, those are some bad uses of cutscenes in an RPG.
@@CidGuerreiro1234 Agreed. But I wouldn't exactly count describing "an action" in minute detail as a cutscene.
I always love the intros
Yup, the intro skits got me into this channel
@@akrinornoname2769 I got into this channel to get tips on becoming a better DM
Definitely
Is this a jab at Matt Colville
Fun, in a good way:
Kaervek the Vile has entered the chat
if nothing else you can tell he has watched Running The Game, lots of "subtle" references/coincidences. also, Matt Colville has used cutscenes very effectively in short bursts for helping sell a side narrative. So..... yeah might be a jab, might not be
Me a jab? I would never do that
@@theDMLair it's a stabby stabby
One good idea for having your BBEG show up near the beginning is to have a social encounter with them rather than a combat encounter, where there is a possibility of receiving rewards or even punishments depending on how well the players Roleplay and interact with the BBEG. As an example, I’m currently building a campaign where the bad guy shows up in basically session 2-3, and the players have a chance to interact with him. If they choose to try to attack him, he will cast Command at 9th lvl and force all of them to kneel in his presence. If they manage to appeal to his superiority complex, they may receive rewards form him. If they anger him, he will place a curse on the ones that anger him, which can be removed by Greater Restoration or a certain NPC in-game. Because the option of fighting has been removed from the table (and even if it wasn’t, he was holding a meeting with the 4 lords that work directly under him, each one a later boss fight, so the fight would have been short-lived at best), they are forced to try to negotiate or appeal to the BBEG, and the results of the encounter have legitimate consequences to the rest of the game, so it still feels like it’s worth it because it was a legitimate encounter
In a campaign I DM, I did step two thing, but instead of showing him do something bad, they all encountered him during a tournament event in a city. He was after the price, they could slow his plan by winning.... oh and he has a personal connection to one of the player characters as he is that characters uncle.... he is the charismatic guy that pretends to be on your side to get what he needs from you as he plans to invade his brother`s kingdom after he was exiled in order to take the throne. (The PC is a naive character, and do not know why she suddenly could not see her uncle anymore, as she also had overprotective parents)
This proved to be very effective because the entire party started liking him, then they realized his real motivations, so not only did they get to know a little too OP NPC at the time they met him, but it did become a nice plot twist later on as well
I was creating a part of the campaign where information flow was kind of the focus, I created intrigue, complex relations between the npcs and their objective was to slowly but surely collect information, that is until the sorcerer found a very important character and used suggestion with subtle spell and basically sucked all the information they needed for free, it sucked, a lot.
Kudos for the clever pun. :)
One of my favorite ways to introduce a BBEG was one I had in a sci-fi post apocalyptic campaign. For the first 2 sessions, the players had been hearing rumors about this CEO of the major evil corperation attempting to control the region. When session 3 rolls around, they band together with a large group of rebels to attempt to assassinate the guy. The reality is that his time outside of corperate HQ was completely planned and intentionally leaked to draw out the rebels, who he then sacked his lv 15 elite guards on leading to a massacre. The encounter is not so much of trying to defeat the BBEG, but the players trying to brainstorm and figure out how they can escape the massacre and hide long enough to regroup and continue their journey to finding some way to defeat him.
One alteration to the "PCs meet the BBG at low level" approach could be to meet them in a completely non-combat/non-confrontational scenario where they don't even appear to be a villain. This would probably work better for more intrigue or mystery focused villains rather than combat focused ones and shouldn't be used all the time because it has similar pitfalls to "NPC backstabs the party". Instead of having the big bad appear and taunt them or having the party come across them attacking some random village, introduce them as if they were a normal, friendly NPC and/or questgiver with potentially a few hints at what they are planning such as them not agreeing with the current leadership of the region. Maybe they haven't even started to execute their plans yet or aren't very far along and are secretly looking for allies and followers so they try to befriend the party before attempting to recruit them later down the line. Maybe they aren't even plotting anything when they first meet, but something (potentially even something caused by the party's actions) happens that puts them on the path to being the villain of a plotline or even the BBG for a whole campaign.
Aw ye, got my example picked up DIRECTLY again 😀
Great list, Luke, and thanks for always reading through our suggestions!
So several campaigns back I had my group meet the BBEG in the second session of the entire campaign. They didnt realize this until they spoke to him, instead they met him in a tavern as he was gathering information of his own and one of the group went to talk to him.
Through conversation the character learned that this was the person who destroyed a village the previous session (good insight check) and continued to talk to him about the information he was gathering.
Using that they then went to the location he was gathering information on to try and beat him to whatever goals he had there. They fought him here (two or three sessions after meeting him) and lost. However rather than kill them he let them live, actively revealing that he was doing so because of the talk they had before. He would let them live and try and gather what he was looking for. He would view it as a challenge between himself and them, his goons and them. Who can gather the maguffins, who can gather the most. Who will get to change the world.
Having the party meet the BBEG early doesnt have to be a 'you have no agency here it is cinematic' and you dont need to come up with some 'the big bad let you live because you were beneath them' reason. A simple conversation and a challenge often goes a long way.
The big bad of a previous campaign of mine was a character I'd played as a player in another campaign. The game started with the players getting attacked by him and saved by a dragon, who the big bad sent packing fairly easily.
I introduced my big bad the very first mission when my players were third level, but I introduced him as someone who was helpful to them, in fact the big bad has been working with them since the first mission. But I'm not sure if I should reveal that he's the big bad mid game or late game, part of me kind of wants them to align themselves with the big bad without actually realizing that he's the main villain, just subtle clues, and then part of me wants to reveal it more in the mid game and let them really fully make the actual choice of going "You know, we think he's right"
Best intro in a while! XD good ol murder-hoboing
Thanks! :-)
I’ve used cutscenes in prophetic dreams the players have had. Keep it short and players enjoy it, in my experience.
That cutscenes bit actually did give me a good idea for a campaign. As your players go though a game and you have a “cutscene” moment with your players foreshadowing the BBEG, you can have the players kinda build their own BBEG. The trick would be to have the DM have to work in whatever plans they have with the player’s actions. Granted the idea is for non-serious games, as expedient players would probably just have the BBEG commit sepuku or something similar but there can be limits.
For instance, the BBEG may be that Shadow Queen and her advisors in this video. The players may take the role of one or both of the advisers to address the Queen on a matter related to an issue with the world. It could help with world building and perhaps inspire other character concepts that they wouldn’t have used.
Alternatively, in relations with the topic of foreshadowing, the party could take an NPC role for a turn or two to set up foreshadowing a BBEG. A scene wouldn’t matter as much but it could set up something if you’re one of those DMs who think 2 sessions ahead or run a straight forward campaign.
I thought I'd share my favourite foreshadowing of a BBEG that occurred during my homebrew campaign. The party was completing a side quest to infiltrate a gang who was stealing items from a nearby town. They just so happened to run into the villain (disguising himself as a Wandering Druid at the time) who also had something stolen which he wanted to grab from the gang. Neither party (the PCs or the villain) knew that the other was a target. Without even knowing it, they began to work alongside each other and the party began to learn more about the villain's motivations and what drives him during calm moments in the infiltration. After the quest is completed and the temporarily joint group splits off, they eventually meet again once more back in town but this time, they realize who the other is, the goals they want to achieve, and that they're now the biggest threat to their current goals.
Funnily enough, the next video CZcams's playlist for me was Matt Colville's Bad Guys video where he describes an almost identical scene to the bit at the beginning and also shares several tips that you recommended against 😂
I am having quite a bit of fun with my party. I have a NPC that acts super sus and that the whole party thinks is the BBEG. They fear him, they don't trust him, and it's great because they completely trust one of the actual BBEG who paints that NPC as super sus. This NPC even has a reputation as the black sheep and his past is a mystery. The best part is that this shady NPC is actually a complete good guy who is doing everything he can to help the party with their quest. I honestly can't wait for the real BBEG to show his true colors and shock the party.
This is exactly the info I needed. We recently finished the Dragon of Icespire Peak as our first ever game and everyone wants to continue playing their characters. I was struggling to introduce the true big bad guy and there were some useful ideas here.
Lol I can only add that the cutscene is doable and well. It's about timing and context like everything else. So here's the set up: players just beat mini boss, and are leveling up (a key component is time they had alot of time not playing), they are choosing to stay in city when a bunch of refugees arrive with the expo dump. Bbeg just destroyed the kingdom. Bbeg has allies. And bbegs location. Are all for shadowed in this time as I discribe the empire falling I finish around the time they start finishing leveling. I also anwer questions and sell items sitting this time since it's all word of mouth. Other options include the party needing a scrying mirror or something to look at the bbeg/figure out something about him, convenientces of what he's doing is up to the dm but it means the players don't feel like it's out of game or something like that. They can look away from the mirror or end the spell or anything if they don't want to finish the scean. I have a pc who if any bad guy speaks he lanchrs into assault mode. He doesn't listen o monologues I sometimes give mid bosses a mini monologue to get interrupted only 2 lines in. I'm in trouble if he ever let's one finish cus it's gonna get trailpy
Hey, its me! One of the folks who will tell you about cutscenes! Your advice is great for people who use them for 10 or 20 minutes and/or lame info dumps. DM's who do this should heed Luke's advice. That being said...
I use cutscenes to great effect. But, I do it by limiting it to 20 seconds or less and have it be related DIRECTLY to an action the PC's have performed very recently. Players will pay attention when its about them or know its about them. If you keep it short, about the players, use it sparingly, and make it punchy then you can get away with it. And I have had some pretty great player reactions as a result.
Really liking the tips! I've used number 2 once or twice now, but tweaked it to make it less plotty or contrived, and have it more of an impact.
Basically, make the party arrive at the same place as the big bad. The just stumble upon each other. The Big bad is dealing with some personal business and the party sees them show of their power. If the party tries to stop them, then the big bad has their cronies or servants or whatever take care of it. He has no interest in some random group of adventurers.
Now the party will start a manhunt. Maybe this big bad isn't a known person but some mystery assassin, some old war veteran or a manifestation of an ancient evil lost to history. In my case, it was a resurrected general with a different name. He was just the second fiddle to a far greater plan. This was an appreciated twist, knowing that this person wasn't the cause of much harm.
Ahhh, Luke 🤩❤
I love your videos, especially the skits. They're great to listen to as well as watch and I've shared a few with my D&D group.
Thanks! 😀
@@theDMLair I'm swooning from a reply, tbh!
Just walk it off. It'll be okay. 😀
I like when the BBEG is an "empire builder" for them to have an elite core, and then outsource to, and tributize other criminal groups to slowly build an incideous web. Atleast until they are ready to make some larger waves. Depending on how long you want it to take you can determine the exact "tree" if who bosses who around and how complex it is (number of layers and total number of groups).
In a simple case the BBEG has a direct group of say 30 dudes who boss around 3 others and outsources to 1 other group. Have 1 of the 3 "tributaries" boss around some various goblin tribes and you know have an easy progression for the players.
Plot hook order
1. Asked to deal with goblins
2. Goblins somehow expose that tributary A is making them attack the villages (possibly by stealing from the goblins so the goblins are raiding to recover)
3. Players make a move on tributary A, in their stronghold is evidence (papers?) of the BBEG's group and their relationship to Tributary A.
4. Players have a hard time researching BBEG, possibly learn of other 2 tributaries
5. Players attack either BBEG or other tributaries looking for more intel and eventually get to the BBEG
Obviously the bigger the web the longer it takes for players to work through it, but you have more potential points of discovery.
You can also explore what happens to the various groups as players eliminate them, does the BBEG try to eliminate the players to stop them from burning his empire. What if they go straight for the top, do the other factions splinter off or does someone try and take over the "empire".
Just a fun plot structure that lends itself well to foreshadowing without exposing the BBEG directly to the players, but his minions and lieutenants will probably regularly harass them.
This is why there's always a messenger-boy/proxy that fits as the bad guy's theme. Fay lord the bag guy? He's got a Fay race creature to do his bidding. Beholder the end boss? He's got an enthralled (whatever henchmen of the beholder are theme) person acting as his messenger/grocery delivery boy. Necromancer? He's got an intelligent flesh golem Frankenstein style that goes into town for him.
Also 10:42 video time, think of the Yellow Eyed Demon from Supernatural. I have done this a few times. Works well as the players speculate and "build" lore and facts around them that I don't even have to generate. Sometimes they're right... sometimes...
Currently planning a campaign. Plan is to start with a travelling theater troupe that retells the history of the war that occurred 40 years ago between the continents and a Lich. Though his phylactery was never found, the Lich was defeated, and his soul was cut in two. One half was flung into the Abyssal Plane, the other bound in the Lich's tome and sealed in a vault. The performance is interrupted by skeletons, which grab one of the Actresses off the stage and carry her off during the fight. The party gives chase and end up at the vault, with most of the deadly traps strangely disabled (they still have some non-deadly traps to make things fun). They arrive just in time to see a circle of cultists complete a ritual, and the body of the Actress get possessed by the half of the Lich's soul. The Lich begins raising dozens of undead per round, a literal horde that chases the party. Once they get outside, a massive skeletal dragon explodes out the top of the mountain and begins flying towards the battlegrounds where the Lich fell. It becomes a race against time as they try to come up with a way to defeat the Lich before it manages to make its soul whole. I plan to pepper in veterans of the first war, Cultists of the Lich, and the like.
I feed my players a tiny amount here and there either just before or just after fights. Like finding Abyssal runes on a Goblin corpse, or seeing an Orc Chieftain working with a Gnoll Flind, but my favorite was having the Orc Chieftain use Dimension Door with Blood Magic. It lets them know that what they understand about the world is being challenged by what they are seeing. That something bigger is happening in the background.
Came across this video again and thought of another way you could foreshadow the main villain without risking him: Send his powerful enforcer/emissary to do his dirty work!
You get the effect of showing off the BBEG but without the risk. And if the party somehow kills the emissary/enforcer, that will only draw attention to this new threat to the BBEG’s plans and will get them to react in some way to it either by sending an invitation or a hit squad to squash these upstarts.
The campaign I’m planning right now has three bbegs. The Perry will encounter and battle the first one in session one, but he will run away. They will have similar interactions with him throughout, but sparingly. In the end he will fuse himself with a dragon and a powerful elemental orb and fight the party.
The second is a man who appears to be pulling the strings. He is the one with the dragon, he has immense dark powers, is attempting to obtain all the elemental orbs, and will interact with the party occasionally. They will fight him once mid campaign where he completely destroys them, but leaves them alive because if he killed them someone else would just take their places. In the end they battle him, and would lose if not for the third bbeg.
The third bbeg is the avatar of darkness, the supreme elemental of darkness. He is introduced as a mysterious cloaked merchant near the outskirts of town early on. He offers the players powerful darkness weapons in exchange for lots of gold. In the end, he takes all of the powers back from bbeg#2 and reveals his true identity. He consumes bbeg#1 and the elemental orb, and fights the party.
I plan on dropping lots of details, letters, hints, and interactions with the first two bbegs, but the third one will be a twist I hope they don’t see coming. I’m also stealing the plot directly from an old video game.
I’m currently running a campaign where the players have met the bbeg, but he was a regular NPC when they met him, whilst also working in the shadows. He has directed the players on quests to help him get the source of power that he desires. The hardest part was gaining the players trust, coz they like to attack and kill anything (especially the vampire player) it’s still early in the campaign, but I can’t wait for the reveal at the end.
I ran HotDQ and changed the BBG. I had them travel with the player's caravan in disguise as a bard. They played music and helped fight those who attacked the caravan, because they had a vested interest in protecting the caravan. When the players figured out who the bad guys were on the caravan, he laughed at them and left.
I will have to try to do a cut scene some time.
I would never run NPC Theater cutscenes, or let my players run the BBEG in one. But what I would do, if there are not enough players available on game night rather than cancel the session is let the players who can make it play other NPCs in other parts of the world. They might play the surviving members of a doomed party of adventurers in a desperate situation or a council of wizards deciding which nation to support in a war, or a few pirates salvaging mysterious treasures from an ancient undersea ruin, or any other scene. These side scenes are basically one shots but may impact the main story. The centuries-dead corpses of the doomed adventurers are in a future dungeon, the PCs get news of the wizards choosing a side, or some of those treasures end up in the hands of an NPC or villain. It adds richness to the world, increases player investment, and helps maintain the schedule of play.
I haven't experienced/used the cutscene and def feel I agree with Luke but would also love to hear other's experiences! I've heard good and bad stories of the bbeg dropping in at low level and I'm interested to try it out and give it a fair shot.
~Dan
I feel like a fun way to do it is to make it so they don't really how ripped the obvious BBEG is; let them think he's more so the mastermind than the muscle.
Throw in a big beefy guard who they think is the real threat, and who is liable to scare them off. If and when they should manage to beat the guard, if they chose to fight (likely with some close calls and high tensions to boot), they may decide to strike at the BBEG be himself.
Then, BAM! They realize they've overreached, and they now need to figure out how to survive/escape the wrath of the aggroed BBEG.
(Provide a path of escape for them, too, of course, and a reason why the BBEG wouldn't be joining his guard in the fight.)
There are two ways I made cutscenes work, one was a couple one use time crystals that showed echoes of the past and were used to gather clues during a murder mystery. The other was a scrying mirror that looked into a dungeons boss chamber. This was important because it showed off the layout of that chamber which was a very important aspect of the fight and gave them a chance to plan for a puzzle boss.
Cutscenes work *really* well if they are being used to give tools, and opportunities to the players. Turning a clever bosses puzzle room against them was very satisfying for the group and realizing that the murder was the precursor to a bigger plot also let them go roaring down a new adventure path.
I did do a cutscene fairly once, they did a quest for a genie in exchange for info on the big bad. He arranged for a friend scry on the big bad in a magic pool. The PCs weren’t present, but I did let them intereact by asking about the scene. From this they realised the big bad a certain hobgoblin tribe as Mercinaries( the bard rolled knowledge skills to identify their tattoos) and eliminated some of the potential lair locations with awareness and nature rolls, because they could just see out the window behind him.
I am running a campaign currently where the player's met the big bad (I rolled to see if he cared and he did) but because of one of his abilities and some failed saves they weren't able to do more than to talk with him and request the release of one of the prisoners which he accepted on the condition that they stop going after his various bases of operation, though he didn't mention where they were so when they inevitably clean out the next place to try and protect a town from a growing plague, big bad comes in and this time demands some form of repayment, in the form of killing one of the characters. Now the characters had enough gold and resources (they had picked up a scroll of raise dead and one of the characters had revivify) so death wasn't too big of a deal for them at this point but his repayment was a message, 'stop'. They actually fought him here and he didn't use his full power because he didn't believe he needed to and he was setting the stage for his lieutenants to be angry with the party when he told them that the party did as well against him as his lieutenants did (though he left out that he held back against the party and not against them), needless to say he wanted to test his minions and knew that the party would head for his lieutenants base next so he wanted to test their strength as well as prove that they aren't ready to deal with a 'god' yet (since he proclaims himself as such but he isn't).
Not something I will ever do again since, in the moment, my players didn't care for it much but now that they have killed the lieutenants they have some understanding of why the BBEG did what he did, because it made the lieutenants band together and fight as a single party against the characters party creating an extremely difficult and drawn out battle unlike anything they had faced thus far, and they loved it. It pushed their characters to the limit and they had to strategize every round in order to try and keep an edge in the fight that up until the last two rounds could have gone either way. Now with that done, the BBEG will appear again but this time to offer to make them his new lieutenants (they burned up the old ones in lava after they killed them to prevent resurrection) or to fight them for real for the first time in the campaign, at this point they aren't meant to kill him but if they do then part 2 of the campaign changes fairly significantly, otherwise they are meant to survive for a number of rounds and make their escape when an ancient dragon comes in to attack the BBEG (they have already met and are working with the ancient dragon so it's not just some random dragon, though it will die here if they don't some how find a way to kill the BBEG and with their current level and gear they may very well win). Again this isn't something I will run again but it is out of my standard for campaigns so I figured throwing a wrench in every now and then can make for a more unique story than the players are use too.
My Players actually Sat down for Dinner with the BBEG. I was prepared for it to turn into combat but it never did. They ask him questions and he answered. He asked them some questions as well. It was somewhat tense but interesting.
Nice. My players recently had to meet the Bad Guys because they got hold of an important item the party needs,. The bad guys 'graciously' gave it back, in front of a bunch of journalists (modern setting) and had a 'friendly' contest that turned into a sterling example of passive-aggressive combat because no one was allowed to actually attack anyone else. One of the players had their PC insult the BBEG with flower language; it was beautiful.
I use cutscenes to visually describe something that the players are going to hear about through rumormill or eyewitness accounts anyway. It invokes more emotion to describe it in detail than for them just to hear what happened from an NPC. I could have the NPC relive it through his or her's own experience, but then it feels forced to introduce them to an NPC with that information. A short cutscene does the trick much more efficiently.
I typically foreshadow my BBEGs in instances where the players won't know at that point that they are the BBEG, but does give the players a small insight about the BBEG. In my last campaign, the BBEG was the main knight who was in charge of investigating and eliminating cults in the kingdom. The players had encountered a cult and she brought them in to interrogate them to ensure they weren't a part of the cult and also learn about them. (They were mercenaries for a group that was familiar to the knights) There was only a little bit of rumor among the commoners that this knight was brutally effective and feared if she came to their town. So they didn't suspect her as being the BBEG until much later, when she assassinated the King and took control of the kingdom, but by then they weren't in a position to fight during a huge speech ceremony in the capital. (I think they were deathly afraid of her at that point too)
One version that worked well for one of the mid-level-ish big bads in my campaign, albeit it happened by accident.
In this world, the PCs are fighting evil undead overlords who have taken over. One conceit of the world is that many major cities are connected by a teleportation network, and the PCs essentially have a back door into this system thanks to an NPC helper they started the campaign with.
But, the bad guys have access to it too and that makes these connection points dangerous as well as useful: it is their exit point from most scenarios, but it is also where the bad guys call in resources.
I made a chart to see what the bad guys happen to call in, and on the first adventure of the campaign, the PCs were a little slow to reach the teleportation circle and the bad guys started bringing in minions. At which point, the PCs realized they *really* needed to get a move on before they got overrun.
Well, this ended up allowing 1 encounter to happen in their base. I rolled to see what it was and rolled a Nat 20, so one of these mid-level bosses showed up. (I was flumoxxed and startled and my PCs could probably tell)
So their NPC who can work the teleportation network starts trying to use it to essentially banish the big bad from the base (a trick the bad guys had no reason to suspect he could do, but the PCs did and even anticipated) while the PCs are fighting just to *keep them in that room* so they can be banished. Essentially, keeping them at bay long enough for this to work. I made the rolls publicly so they knew there was a chance it would succeed or fail.
It did not go perfectly: we had a PC death, which wasn't super great, but it did work. The PCs are super invested in killing that NPC now, and I let the player whose character died write into his backstory that this particular big bad destroyed his home village so he can get that cathartic revenge while still being true to the narrative of the game. But no one thought it was contrived, and in retrospect it would be cool to do something similar deliberately in future games.
Basically, if you want to give the PCs agency here, give them win conditions other than killing the big bad. Here, just surviving long enough for the big bad to be banished, with the drama of whether it would happen going on every round, kept them engaged and having fun. Or maybe they can save *one* NPC who is important to them. Or maybe they can do something before running away. They just encountered this NPC again and managed to evacuate a town before the big bad showed up. They ran away after their initial volley of attack was rebuked, but they feel like they did *something* by saving all of those people, and I made sure to let them know that they *did* save the day. In both cases, they could have failed with disastrous consequences.
Give them win conditions other than "kill the bad guy" and they can be heroes even if they don't kill them. It's a good general rule, and I think it works *extra* well for introducing the big bad early.
I agree with most of these, but the Cutscenes one. But I do agree that you should be wary on using them in situations involving players.
One of the best ways I've found to integrate "Cutscenes" in these games is with Player Flashbacks. My players write or describe to me a scene from their characters past and it plays out as a scene sometime in the campaign. This is my main usage of Cutscenes and its one I recommend if you feel like your group will enjoy them. That is the important part, talk with your group about them.
Other ways I use them on occasions is some foreshadowing of certain events (I don't do it too often) or to follow a PC that has left the party and has been replaced, so we can see how the character is still affecting the story. These can be useful tools of story-telling and I have found that they increase player engagement, as we are playing a collaborative Story-telling game.
These are just some ways I recommend using Cutscenes. I wouldn't use them when players are directly involved, like the party walking into a room and seeing a bad-guy, or monologues, but using them to build up the story and to get the other players invested in another characters story are great ways to use them, if the party likes them.
My best foreshadow of the big bad was when I had my players inadvertently release the lich, Indrus the Brittle, from his prison know as the Vault of Indrus the Brittle. They thought it was vault as in a vault of treasure but when they opened it, there stood a blue crystalline skeleton in flowing black robes. He then thanked them for releasing him and said as a reward, he would not kill them at this time. The dwarven barbarian tried to rush him, but they were like third level and liches have a paralyzing touch so Indrus just tapped the dwarf’s face paralyzing him and tipped him over like he was nothing, bade them farewell, then plane shifted away. This was all using valid actions from the lich’s stat block. Most of the players realized that it would not be smart to try to kill him because I am known to not hold back. So they tried to get as much information before he left. He fought off the dwarf while conversing with the other players.
From then on, they kept hearing rumors of groups of bandits, rogue mages and orcs gathering to some new master as they tried to figure out where he went and defeat him before his power grew too much. They knew he was near, but could not figure out exactly where. Or who was converting to his power.
I think that cutsecenes are a great tool, but ONLY if is short, I agree wih you luke, taking 20-30min of the game just to tell what the BBEG is doing some random stuff bogs me down really hard as a player and DM. Like always, awesome video!
So I have actually incorporated little cutscenes into every game. The players are given little visions each day by their patron as she find information about the BBEG in the weave. In a prior campaign I gave the players a mirror of scrying they could use once per day. Little historical moments, or little snippets of information, or when they find some new info they can get context in a more atmospheric way from their patron or mirror. I always keep it super short, 2-3 minutes at most, but it gives me an in game way to impart lore and foreshadow. I usually open the game session with it allowing us to bring focus to the table and off our side chats. Just keep it tight and wait until the characters discover a clue or a name, then their patron or mirror is responding to them.
I've had surprisingly good luck with the "PCs meet the big bad early on" thing in my intrigue campaign. Despite the fact that the PCs are greedy, amoral mad scientists and wannabe drug lords who want to run the city, they have successfully internalized that Lord Kul, the Invincible Warrior who rules the place is *called that for a reason*, and they are terrified of him, to the point that if he arrives in an area, any plan they had immediately shifts to "leave immediately." I think this started because his first real appearance beside a brief conversation was when he walked into the gladiator arena and killed a T-Rex in two turns. With me actually rolling that fight. (He did crit, but he also scored a hit on a natural 3.) I think this helped demonstrate that his reputation was reflected in mechanics as well as lore, and they really weren't going to take him down at that level. When they next met him at a party he was hosting (a setting which further encouraged them to interact with, not attack him), one of the PCs began a drinking contest, having secretly made himself immune to the effects of alcohol. I rolled Fortitude for everyone around to see how well they did and Lord Kul got a 35. ("I'm sorry, I know you are magically cheating, but he still beats you. His alcohol tolerance is just that high.") This really gave life to the Chuck Norris-like "Kul facts" the PCs occasionally heard when they looked for rumors, like how Lord Kul once punched the moon, or how he swims the harbor once a week to kill any sharks near the city. Now that the PCs are public enemies for that time they kinda-sorta killed Kul's son, I can use Kul arriving at a scene to control the players' actions, which would not have been my Plan A (due to the "let's attack the guy" risk), but because I know the players legitimately fear him, it has proven to be a great tool. (The PCs have actually met a number of high-level antagonists in that campaign, thanks to their start as gladiators in the city, allowing them to become adventurers of moderate renown, worthy of meeting with a power broker but not yet a threat in need of killing. Having those meetings made their plans to deal with each faction much more interesting.)
Since that example is probably not a generalizable example, I have found elsewhere that having independent minor villains dislike or fear the big bads is a good way to foreshadow. The players will think "If these guys are tough enough that they are causing us trouble, how tough is the guy THEY are afraid of?". In another campaign, a fight between the PCs and one villain was interrupted by another villain arriving, floating high in the sky and summoning a snowstorm that quickly blanketed the battlefield and caused everyone to scatter. When this floating character first appeared, the leader of the other villains raised a fist to the sky and shouted "Yukesia, you heretic!" before running away. For much of the rest of the campaign, the players were wondering who/what Yukesia was, and what that other villain was talking about. When the PCs reached the abandoned fortress later, they began finding documents from Director Yukesia, and eventually a memo noting that an official investigation has definitely confirmed that Yukesia's death was an unfortunate accident and NOTHING MORE. And then a note furious that her body has gone missing. And so on. When the PCs finally faced her, they not only had much more of an idea of who she was than if they'd simply run into her, but they even had some hints at her preferred tactic - blanketing the area in a blinding blizzard that only she can see through and unleashed attacks from all directions. The result was one of the most memorable fights of the campaign.
Though I don't use them at all, the only way I can think of that cutscenes would work is if the characters are looking through a screen/portal/whatever else that makes it so they can't actually affect what is going on. It's very useful for creating a helpless scenario and cementing the BBEG as someone who needs to be defeated.
My players have been interacting with a big bad at points in our run of Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, and I do love leaving little clues that suggest the person they thought at first was just another filled-out NPC are more than that. They have just been getting more and more suspicious as time as gone on. It's been really fun for them as well as myself.
My players recently met the big bad, Cichol, he was not concerned with the party as he was slowly killing a demigod and ripping apart a demiplane. There was an intense moment after a ton of joy hearing the paladin land a critical followed by another hit only to hear me ask the sorcerer how much health he had. Down but not out, the monk realized that there was a shepherds staff not far off with diamond threads slowly getting closer to it, in a flight of speed ripped it from the ground to hear Cichol cast fireball... then they were in the middle of town with the surviving residents of that demiplane, they now have his attention.
I used cutscenes - there's a rare potion in my world which, when mixed with blood, shows a memory of who the blood comes from.
First discovered in a tomb of a warrior who tried and failed to defeat a big bad... My L4 players saw a foe stronger and more cunning, and got a glimpse of the power.
They've found more potions, and are aiming to bleed one lieutenant, to get more secrets of his evil master.
I gave small cutscenes as visions when they completed the Riddles of The Raven Queen about enemies they had met before or would meet soon and were connected to their backgrounds, but I quite liked your idea.
Nice, like the Pensieve in Harry Potter. This is pretty neat - a variant on it, taking from the Pensieve, would be having the characters envisioning themselves in the room as an invisible force. So while they can't affect the events there, they can move around and receive different amounts of information based on what they do (though you'd have to be careful that they only learn things known by the person whose memory they're in - e.g. if another character has a knife behind their back that they eventually stab Memory Man with, player could learn about this ahead by going behind that character's back).
An Angel loses it's wings every time Luke says "Stabby stabby time".
I just had an interesting situation - where one of my players was away for the week, and it didn't work well for what I had planned for the PC's. So I turned it into a chance to meet (two potential) big bads by giving my players characters in their vicinity, and having a one-shot adventure there. That way they had agency, got to play something different, and got a "cut scene" kind of feel in seeing something happen outside their main plot that will affect them down the road.
About cutscenes, I'd like to add my two cents : Luke is absolutely right, don't ever use them as exposition scenes, but they could be marvellous as a mean of tension.
I was mastering a Star Wars game, where the pc were trying to prevent an evil sith to get some mysterious crystals. They knew who was the bbeg, as they barely escaped him twice already, but he was closing up on them as the rythm of the campaign rised up. Then... And only Then I used a VERY short cutscene, to show Darth Vader contacting the "bbeg" - angry about the lack of results - to tell him he was taking the lead on this affair ("captain, set a course to the system WhereThePCMustGo"). Their reaction to the brutal rise of importance of the opposition was priceless, and they doubled their efforts to reach safety.
Short, meaningful and strategically placed cutscenes could be awesome !
You seem to forget that there are some powerful spells out there, like idk, clone, that let a bbeg defeated at low level come back even stronger. Then you get a recurring villain that you defeat time and time again, until you can trap his soul. But by then he probably has a solution for that too. etc, etc.
Perfect timing for me. I came across this just as I was struggling with this idea.
I record music and different audio things as a passion of mine and I formed that into dnd using a cutscene lol. The information giving was foreshadowing of the next part but it was kind of already known by the players. So I kind of made it work with sound effects, an orchestration score. And a chat between two villains.
Ahahaha your opener is fantastic!
I let the big bad appear when it makes sense, but always have an escape plan. It usually involves a nearby trap door and a darkness spell, though if they're powerful enough I have teleport prepared
I'm running my players through the original Ravenloft (not Curse of Strahd, but I did use part of that for conversion). The first time the players came across Strahd, he was dressed as the driver of long black carriage with a coffin in the back (an analog to a modern day hearse). They interacted with him, got some backstory, and learned the carriage was there for Ireena (and them too). When they came back a few minutes later, the carriage was gone. They later learned who he was and exactly what kind of danger they had been in. He later turned up with the carriage and a small force of minions that the players had to fight off to keep him from getting to Ireena.
Needless to say, they have been afraid of carriage drivers in ravenloft from that point forward. >:)
I do not use cutscenes to foreshadow bbeg but they are a useful tool to give the players more context into events happening around the story. A meteor shower destroying the lords castle destabilizing the area and leading to the bbeg using their army to conquer the region has more impact when the players know more info then they could have come across that quickly. I usually use cutscenes as a way to introduce potential allies/enemies.
In the prior example maybe I describe an ettin performing a ritual to summon the meteor shower from a cave in the mountains to the northwest. But that character has their own reasons for doing that deed.
I feel like this is a useful tool to help flesh out that the world is a living place. And although the players shape the world with their decisions there is always something things going on in the background. The world isn't static and just waiting for them.
Although the bbeg is important for game reasons they do not exist alone in a void, and as various events unfold through the world the players get to experience the plans of the bbeg more organically as the villain uses these events to their advantage. It also makes it a little easier in my opinion to prep as you already know the bbeg's desires and agenda and through these events the party can learn that without you smacking them in the face with it.
I had a leading antagonist that I trotted out for show early on and the player's decided to act. He could have trounced them, but that would have revealed that he was THE big bad as opposed to just a bad guy so he didn't reveal his full power and the players captured him and took him to the local baron, who imprisoned him. He was a mage and orchestrated his scheme from inside his cell using one of his henchmen as a stalking horse. The group was convinced the #2 was their primary antagonist, who they ultimately defeated (along with the big bad's plot). The big bad, however? He engineered his escape and lived to plot again. The players eventually figured it out and taking him down was just that much more sweet in the end.
I accidentally did the "players run into the big bad at low level thing" and suffered. I was running an Eberron game and the players were on a lightning rail. My plan was for the low-tier arc be centered around a Lord of Blades plot that would then run up into a Dreaming Dark conspiracy after it ended and seque into the real villians for the second half of the campaign.
So now I have them on a lightning rail straight out of their introductory adventure that is doomed to be ambushed by warforged after their treasure from the last adventure. The players had rented a first class car and were dicking around when the thief decided to go see if anything worth stealing was in the other first class cabin. I decided to fill that cabin with an Inspired ambassador NPC, basically an undercover agent for the real big bads delivering a blueprint for a building that would be relevant to the story later. The party thief stole a cool looking crysteel dagger with a minor magic effect from this NPC I had just invented and sees the documents and moves on.
Cue ambush on the train, and I decided yo have some fun by having the Inspired help fight off the warforged, since this was unrelated to his plans and he was essentially a random victim of the attack.
Cue my Artificer seeing this guy run up to get involved and impulsively shooting a precautionary firebolt into his chest. They then subdued and tortured him, bragging about hanging out with their immortal enemies the Kalashtar (one of my pcs was one). So now the Devourer of Dreams had a personal vendetta against my party and I had to mothball my plans and write a new campaign where they could find a way at level 3 to stop having their dreams invaded every other night by the pissed off nightmare spirits whose plans were set back because this guy had to bring some documents to Aundair and ended up a prisoner in Breland with my party running off with his id papers and plot portfolio.
My group is level 2. They were being treated to cooked alligator and baked fruits by some Lizardfolk. They gave some foreshadowing to a module they will revisit around level 7, tomb of horrors. It was some lore on Acererak and Archwraith Moghdam. They were too low to fight them, and I didn't want them to feel like they were in a cut scene. I had an aoe that plane shifted them to the ethereal plane. So they could see Acererak, but not interact and I could cut scene to end one module and begin introducing another. It was only a minute of DM RP, conversation, but I thought I would share a way to introduce/cut scene that can still allow PCs to not feel helpless. I run a converted original Ravenloft and have Strahd interact through illusion, perception checks of him closing one way secret doors behind the group, or one round of combat before mists come to PCs rescue. I think the biggest point is don't bully your PCs in an unfair fight, and don't tell them you can't do anything shut up and watch me. Everything else can bring fun and enjoyment as long as you allow the delivery method to PCs to allow them to feel like they matter and are a part of your world. These are just a few ways to deliver info, and as all walks of life too much of anything makes things dull and repetitive. Thanks, I hope this is found to be helpful.
The skits are fun! Haha. Great advice, thanks!
I plan for my PCs to meet the BBEG in a couple different ways, 1 through a cult that worships him learning through environmental tidbits or 2 (my personal favorite) the opportunity to stumble into my BBEGs house (a reflavored twist on the CoS Death House). Most likely both. There's also a bit more or a planned lore dump before phase 3 but that's in character through a character that they'll most likely meet, who knew the BBEG before he became the BBEG.
In the basement of the death house, they can meet a residual projection of him that he can interact with the world through but can't leave the house in. Functionally a visible Poltergeist with a couple extra actions.
As of right now he's been banished to the Abyss, so he can't interact with the mortal plane directly; just in small bubbles. So a pseudo remote BBEG that gets closer and stronger the longer the campaign runs.
Had a flashback session for one of the PCs. In the flashback they met their personal BBEG. Only, they decided to kill them (and succeeded). Now obviously, that's a pretty big problem. The PC's foil being resolved before the campaign even starts. But it went so well for three reasons:
- Despite dying, the BBEG got to in-real-time kill one of the PC's family during the battle. It meant more than just saying it happened.
- When they killed the BBEG they badly desecrated the corpse.
- I had a revival mechanic for the bad guys that I got to introduce early. Now the BBEG didn't just hate the PC for scripted reasons. But also for the death and the humiliation.
One way to do the 'let the players defeat the BBEG early' and influence the plot is perhaps they can't actually KILL them YET, but can foil their present evil plan and weaken their overall scheme.
Such as Tyranny of Dragons allowing the player's victories or choices throughout weakening Tiamat when she's summoned as the final boss.
An alternative is perhaps have the BBEG run on Sonic Adventure logic with Chaos, where they go through multiple forms, each making it clear that wasn't actually their full power, highlighting the threat.
While running Radiant Citadel's 'Written in Blood' chapter, I foreshadowed the Soul Shaker not just with what was already in the game, but any time they did an Arcana Check and succeeded on something relating to the Soul Shaker, I allowed them to catch a shadowy glimpse of it.
My tip with an example. Foreshadow the villain in a flashback. One of the PCs had in his BG information that when she was a child (12 yo), her village was attacked and destroyed by an army. I threw a flashback to her, and we played without the GURPS system (she played with d6, I played with d20). I know, I know, it is railroady as hell, and it seems a lot a GM x Player situation, but it actually didn't happened that way. I had a lot of reasons to that: firstly, her PC was just a child in the middle of an elite army. Secondly, it was a flashback, in other words, something that already happened by her BG. At least, we could all not only see the devastation scene, with a lot of running, stealth and desperation, but everybody at the table had visualized the villain in action, killing dozens of people effortless.
In the campaign I'm running right now (which is also my first campaign, not only as a dm but in dnd ever) I made the heroes have a kind of gandalfian mentor. She's an 800 yo. Elf lady who runs a magic school, but she only has one student at the moment. The student is a young human woman who is kind of snarky and sarcastic but in a fun way. She's helping out the heroes and is much more casual than the ancient wizardess, who sends the heroes on some missions she can't do herself anymore.
And then they see a pseudodragon run into the pupils' room. They think to themselves "okay, weird."
Then, while on a mission in the forest, they find a house that looks exactly the same as the party's monk's house. He thinks it's shady and tries to ignore it when a tiefling lady leaves through the main door. He questions her immediately and she claims to have lived here for 15 years. Then she introduces herself with the same name the elf's student did. The party's tabaxi fighter pokes at the woman with her finger and it's revealed that she's a ghost. She takes over the monk's body and tells the party she was murdered here 10 years ago and they should search the monk's house.
At this point, they are losing their marbles over what's going on.
Later in the campaign they will find a tiefling corpse in the basement of the house. there will be a name inscribed on the wall, carved into the stone with a broken off tiefling-horn.
Even later they will find the exact name on a bed in a room in an abandoned mansion where the workers slept.
And then the human woman will murder the 800 yo. Elf in front of the party's eyes.
Turns out she was a tiefling once who was working in the mansion when people still lived there. She wanted to free the tieflings by destroying the rune circle around the mansion that kept the monsters away at night. She did so successfully but killed herself in the process. Then, because the wizardess who created the rune circle to protect them felt responsible for it failing, she wanted to bring everyone she could back to life.
But because she's borderline senile she cast "reincarnate" instead of "resurrect" by accident and have the sabotage tiefling a new, human body.
The former tiefling then killed a woman in the town nearby, took over her house, name and identity, and started working on a plan to do the same thing she did to the mansion but with the entire town which also had a rune circle protecting it from the monsters. But this time she would kill the wizardess, save all the tieflings and take over the town once everyone was dead and the monsters left the next day.
And that's what the adventurers are witnessing right now. i hope i'm doing something right, at least it feels like it xD
The best Idea I've heard for a BBEG foreshadow, Simulacrum. I'm going to make a Wizard for mine that is using the infinite Simulacrum exploit. The first one they meet will have used all his high level spell slots and is just kind of weak, but as they see him more and more often they will have to fight groups of him with higher level spell slots available.
I was thinking of putting in *very short* cutscenes at the start of the season. Just enough to describe the BBEG in their lair, a lieutenant coming up and summarizing the PCs actions last session, an overdramatic "All according to plan muahaha" or "Curses! I underestimated them for the last time" etc. Then cut back to PCs for the start of the session, maybe no more than a minute or two after they're already familiar with the scene descriptions.
Well, I have 2 main antagonists for my campaign. One is an ancient litch that live in the lowest part of the dungeon that I have been leaving journals mentioning him as the adventurers explore the sunken castle under the inn. The other is a drider that is trying to find the litch's Book of Evil Verse to become powerful enough to challenge, kill and replace Loth as the new goddess of the Drow. She is the active villain you are encountering throughout the campaign and she gets tougher to defeat as you progress. She serves as the impetus to delve the dungeon to stop her before she gets that tome. And the litch? His book was sabotaged when he casted his spell to become one leaving him in a semi-catatonic state where he is trying to summon a terrasque and cannot do so because he keeps looping the opening parts of the spell over and over and leaving him in an ironic hell that can never end.
The way I've gotten cut scenes to work is by basically using it like a Marvel movie after credits scene. At the end of a session after the party accomplishes a goal I cut to the villain in his lair (far away from the action) observing what just transpired through scrying or other magical means. Without giving away too much information, you can show the villain reacting to the new developments and maybe killing one of his henchmen for their incompetence. The trick is, keep it short and sweet and don't give away too much information. You want to pique the players interest about what's going on without fully spoiling any of your later plot twists. If you're worried about your players meta gaming and using this info that their characters don't have just be careful about how much actionable information you reveal this way.
I tried doing some foreshadowing through a cutscene that somewhat worked. When he slept, the PC accidentally discovered he could connect with the ones he had some kind of link (something done through his chakras that could be developed later), so he went back to his village. There he discovered the village elder had been killed, and he could take a little peek of what happened by looking deep in her eyes. In less than 5 minutes, I described the scene of the villain appearing and his appearance (somewhat comical, and only known by name thus far), showing some of his powers and stating the reason he was there and was confronting (and killing) her was because of the PC.
In 15 minutes of a cutscene where the PC had like a detective role, I could present the threat and later left him to dingle with the door of the chakra, meaning he could connect with anyone he thought about, which lead to some interesting misteries.
Oh and while doing that he couldn't interact with others, except the ones spiritually sharp
i know you probably dont want to hear it but i DID do a "play as the BBEG" ... cutscene? i guess? i dunno. my players still talk about it, had them play as a group of frost giant jarls i had statted out with class levels. had them kill an ancient wyrm white dragon as part of a ritual to cement a treaty between the Jarls. i gave them small bits of info about each individual Jarl and they did great, in fact any improv they did for the character became canon and i used that to inform character decisions later on. like one of the Jarls tamed a Demon wolf thingy and when they fought him later he had the wolf by his side.
in any case they still talk about that "scene" climbing a mountain in a blizzard and killing that dragon.