Shade/Wash Comparison: Agrax vs Strong Tone
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- When choosing a method to batch paint an army's worth of miniatures, the differences between Strong Tone and Agrax Earthshade might seem minimal, but for display or characters it might be worth taking a closer look! READ MORE:
Personally, I'm a big fan of the slightly more subtle effect that a mixing medium in the shades offers, especially if I wanted to very quickly highlight rather than applying a second layer of the base colours. One coat, shade, highlight and done? Nice!
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PAINTS USED:
PRIMER:
The Army Painter Skeleton Bone Spray
VALLEJO:
Beige Brown
US Field Drab
Pastel Green
German Camo Beige
Leather Brown
Black
Mahogany Brown
Camo Olive Green
CITADEL:
Cadian Fleshtone
SPRAY VARNISHES:
Vallejo Matt Varnish
![Behold a Pale Horse - Contrast & Layering White Cavalry [How I Paint Things]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Dp6buNxMXQA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Afrika Korps Vehicles - Painting for Bolt Action Western Desert Games [How I Paint Things]](/img/n.gif)
The timing on this is incredible, I am staring down the barrel of 50 base coated guardsmen and was trying to decide whether to use Agrax or Strong Tone for like a week, but it turns out what I really needed was the medium/strong tone mix all along! Thanks for another great video, this channel has been invaluable as I get into the hobby
What did you mix the Strong Tone with?
@@redpillscholar560randomly saw your question here: Lahmian Medium from GW is the easiest thing. I've used it like this and the results are great.
Totally agree with this. Army painter washes really good for just washing space marines and not affecting your sweet airbrush transitions
It's a tad intimidating for a new painter, I know I was hesitant, but enamel/oil washes are incredibly effective alternatives to these two. Enamels/Oils also make that highlight after shading unnecessary, as you highlight the mini by subtraction of the wash.
Thanks for the comparison.
I totally agree! The drying time does make them a bit of a pain in the neck if you're looking for something near-instant as a solution, but if you've got an idea of how to make the most of your lead time they're a great alternative.
Additionally they are toxic and need proper disposal! As long as people know what they're doing they are a very atmospheric wash solution.
@@joesturn7740 you've got a point, definitely a tool for adults.
Hey, been binge watching all of your painting videos! Great stuff, I am terrible at painting but enjoy watching others do it haha. You definitely undersell your end results, they already look the business on camera!
If I can introduce the world to anything, it's that things can be 'the business.' ;D
When it comes to Strong tone & Mid tone, I like a 2-1 ratio. 2 drops wash with 1 drop of wash medium. a tip for painting horses: Prime the horses white & then "paint" them with Army painter wash straight out of the bottle, due to its staining effect of Army painter's washes, you get this beautiful almost contrast paint type look.
I've found that Gloss Agrax Earthshade will flow into the recesses better on a miniature and will stain the high points on the miniature less. It ends up looking more like your Strong Tone and Mixing Medium example without having to mix two products together. Matt varnish afterwards to knock off the shine and I like the results that it gives. I would love to see you try it and compare it to the others in a follow-up video.
Love the content, please do keep up the wonderful job that you are doing.
Wow! I feel ashamed how often I tried to answer that question myself, without coming to an conclusive answer. Thank you very much for your insight! :-)
spent the entire day painting and used up almost my entire bottle of agrax i've had since forever and was thinking of ordering another. looks like i will pick up a bottle of strong tone instead! really like how the medium/strong tone-mix turned out, cheers! :D
It says a lot about the quality of Army Painter's tone range that when GW reformulated their shade washes a year ago, they aimed for competing with AP's tone range in terms of flow. That is, AP's tones flow away from flat surfaces better (compared to original GW washes) and leave less staining where you don't want it.
Agrax and medium also works surprisingly well . I have found most of the citadel washes benefit from some thinning with medium especially the flesh shade . It stops them darkening the high points so much.
This was a great tutorial! I have to agree that he strong tone and Mixing medium look the best. Thanks for sharing this.
Great timing I just did my own comparison of Nuln Oil vs Dark Tone and also noticed that Dark Tone needs some medium. However it is very glossy compared to Nuln Oil.
I think they all look brilliant
Brillant! Exactly the answers what I looked for! ♥ Thank you, for this video!
Absolutely adore Army Painter paints 🥰 I use them exclusively. Such a great company, with fantastic products. I will have to give the 50/50 mix a go.
Once again very useful........... more than useful! Thanks once again for your time and effort, it really does help.
I'm not a fan of Army Painters actual paints (inconsistent quality) but the washes are the best. The brush on matte varnish is great too
@@jherazob i have mixing balls in them, doesn't help much. Why go through all that trouble? I don't have the same problem with reaper, vallejo and citadel so they get my money.
Thanks for the comparison , really useful for batch painting !
(I too tend to "dislike" the filter that agrax apply on the tones - meaning more work before highlighting the miniature...)
That’s a fabulous comparison - super useful, thank you! 👍
Your videos have taught ne the difference and the great thing is, now I can choose which one I want to use for the effect I'm after.
Well I like this a lot and it answered a question I was having as my own Agrax Eartshade supply is going out soon.
I paint a lot of blood angels and I like to thin down agrax with vallejo thinner medium so I can have a subtle result in the red and not have to apply the base coat again, but soft tone really answered my question on how not that different it will look.
Thanks for it, gonna order a few bottles of Strong Tone now.
This helps alot. Thanks
Fantastic video!!!
Great video once again and answered a lot of questions for me
My happy wash mix is 2 parts Strong Tone and 1 part Liquitex Flow Aid. It's kind of rewarding to go through lots of trial and error and find your own concoction.
Excellent vid again. This also answered a question regarding when to dry brush/highlight - before or after the Agrax, etc? After, it shall be.
I've used all of the Army Painter Quickshade products ("dip" and bottled), but I think my favorite effect has been from Minwax Polyshades Tudor Satin. It's probably closest to the Army Painter Dark Tone, but it is a lot less sticky and flows better (thereby mitigating streaking from the brush).
I think I preferred the one with Aly’s Brown stuff. Thanks for the video
thanks for the video! helped me getting away from my citadel paint addiction xD
Excellent vid!
Very interesting....it depends on alot of different factors.. I will try the Ajax Earthshade will a little medium to tone down the darkness
Whenever I paint my admech cloaks I always have to repaint the red to prep it for highlighting. The strong tone mix definitely looks like it would speed up that process!
Amazing craftwork!
How about them oil paints for shading... just saw it for the first time on a different channel... you ever dip your toe on them oils paints?
Edit: great video as always 👌
I've had a play around with them before with some good results. It's just the drying time that makes planning ahead a bit more important. Funnily enough, they're fairly similar in result to the enamel Quickshade Dips.
Strong Tone was my go to wash but a couple of years ago Army Painter has changed the formula so the one you buy off the store shelves now is not as good and it dries glossy. They also changed their Anti-Shine paints so you can no longer brush it on for a matte finish. The old pots are listed as made in France and the new ones say made in Denmark.
The one I'm using says made in Denmark, so I don't know what to tell you. I did show the Strong Tone before matt varnish, so maybe there was a bad batch of the new stuff? What I've got seems to be working fine.
I’ve noticed that you really need to shake them thoroughly otherwise they dry glossy.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio Sounds like I may have got burnt with a bad batch. It's frustrating because I bought several of them at once including some Dark Tone and they all gave the same poor results.
@@retretlol It might be worth seeing if a spray varnish over a test miniature will deal with the worst of it. It'd be a shame to throw them out if there's any use yet in them.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio They do work just fine from an airbrush but I enjoyed having something I could reliably brush on for fantastic results. I've since switched to AK Interactive's Ultra Matte Varnish based on your demonstration on the channel, so cheers for that!
Very interesting and useful, thanks!
Great work buddy.
Thank you 😀
I might just have to get some half-and-half for myself, when next I start a project. Should have the advantage of my local dealer being able to supply me (and not throwing money at GW, always a bonus :p )
Wow will have to switch to army painter shade!!! Looks better then games workshop
I think if you're aiming for speed and consistency across an army project, the Army Painter's shades... well, they call themselves The Army Painter for a reason, I guess! 😅
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio got a lot of imperial guard units to quickly paint so yea that one reason lol
Thank you Sonic ,
(just a fyi , i don't use ether of these , I use Winsor & Newton inks, ) .
It feels like Army Painter Strong Tone wash has stripped some of my paints from time to time. Am I just not letting the paint dry enough? I'll apply the wash and then brush it into different places and the color just wipes right off of some places.
That's an odd one! I'm really sorry to hear it. Haven't heard of the washes lifting paint under them before, that's a new one to me. Might be a question of drying time?
Thanks for doing the comparison. I am definitely in the strong tone camp. I like the look of it. But like all things, that’s personal preference. I really have to try the half/half to see. But as I have the whole line of tones by army painter, I wonder if the medium or soft tone would look the same as the half/half? Again, thanks for the video! Excellent food for thought. Cheers.
Soft Tone and Strong Tone are slightly different colours. You might think of them as being similar to Agrax Earthshade and Seraphim Sepia. The Strong Tone thinned with the medium just gives you a softer finish without changing the colour, but Soft Tone will look a little more similar to the fourth dude with Aly's Brown Liquid mix. I wish they had slightly better names, it'd make it way easier to explain! 😂
And this is why I watch your channel! You truly are the master! I didn’t even think of it that way! Thanks again. Cheers
My Strong Tone creates a Gloss when dryed? Should I just give the Bottle a Strong Shake, or what am I doing wrong?
Really useful video
Sorry noob question here. Do you suggest doing a gloss varnish first? Did you gloss the figures in the video? New subscriber, great stuff
With these, you don't need to worry about doing a gloss first. It's only really necessary if you need to reduce the way a shade or wash collects on flat surfaces - for most things you'll never need it.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio thank you so much!
I believe Strong Shade was made for co called "dipping", when You apply base colors and then literally dip model in the can.
The dip in the big metal tins and the wash in the little acrylic dropper bottles are different products, though near-identical colours and results once they're varnished. Good luck trying to dip a miniature in a dropper bottle, tho! ;D
Thanks for this comparison! I particularly appreciate you showing them after varnishing. Have you tried Strong-Tone + Lahmian Medium? I like Lahmian Med. much better than the Army Painter Shade medium.
Great video Sonic as usual. Just a thought could you mix in GW Lahmian Medium to the Agrax Earthshade to get that smother finish as you did for the test with the strong tone and wash mixing medium?
No reason you couldn't! It looks about the same, although it doesn't go cloudy during application like the Army Painter stuff does. Makes it a little easier to see what you're doing.
Thank you for the comparison. I actually prefer dilute army painter soft tone over strong tone. Out of curiosity, how does diluted Agrax compare to diluted strong tone?
Fairly similar effect, just a different product to do it.
hi, great comparison. But umm, what is a mixing medium? is it by army painter or?
The easiest way to explain medium is that it's like a paint without colour in it. Many paint companies will also sell the medium they use in their paints, and it's usually most useful to thin down the colour of a paint or shade without changing the flow properties it has so it behaves in the same way.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio so if i search online, its actually called Mixing medium, right?
At the end when talking about ordering a larger batch you say “half and half strong tone and quickshade” but do you mean “strong tone and medium mix”? Isn’t quickshade army painters “dip” product? I like that look the best of the three and want to get the right stuff! (Altho I followed your Aly’s Brown Mix recipe to great result on a Irish warband for SAGA!) thanks for all the great videos!
There's a difference between The Dip (which I like capitalizing, because it sounds slightly scarier that way) and the Quickshade Washes. The Dip is an enamel product which needs to be cleaned off brushes with white spirits, turps or similar; the washes are easier to use by virtue of being acrylics. But yes, you're right - Strong Tone and mixing medium was what I just put on order! :D
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio This may well sound *really* silly, but their Wash Mixing Medium, rather than their Warpaints Mixing Medium?
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio cool thanks for the details. I hope I didn’t sound like a picky commenter. I love your videos and will fight anyone who is snarky to you!
@@brynstarre Yeah they have a quickshade wash mixing medium, that's what he's talking about. :-)
Can you give me some advice please. I'm probably mixed up but I was sure in previous videos you suggested it was strong tone and not Agrax that darkened or stained the colours more and the agrax settled in recesses without doing this?
Excellent comparison video - this kind of thing is really handy. Out of interest, what varnish did you spray on them all? I literally just used up my last dregs of Testors Dullcote and I've got cans of GW Munitorium Varnish and Army Painter Matt varnish ready to go - just need to pick which one would be best for which project!
I've taken to using Vallejo's Matt Varnish spray for pretty much everything. Never had a frosting problem with it, and it's a truer matt than Munitorum Varnish. That being said, I'd pick the GW stuff over Army Painter's sprays - I haven't had many problems with it, but when it does go bonk, boy howdy it does it big style!
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio Cheers for the heads up - I'll see if I can get some of Vallejo varnish :)
Do the Army Painter washes have a glossy finish?
I am looking to do the combat patrol of genestealer cult and am going to get the army painter and medium. The price of those two probably equals the citadel paint
I would Love to see you do a striking scorpion Eldar one day....hint hint ;)
Very interesting video. Out of interest, have you compared the Soft Tone at all? Wondering if that would be the equivalent of pre-diluted Strong Tone / Medium or if it would produce a totally different effect?
The short answer is it's actually a different colour. Dark/Strong/Soft isn't really a comparison of how strong they are compared to one another; Strong Tone is a dark brown, where Soft Tone is a more sepia colour.
It depends on what the final finish is you want, so each person will be different.
I recently got Strong Tone, and it dries very gloss, even with a really thin coat. Is this normal, or is it just my wash?
It's fairly common. This is why I matt varnished all three examples at the end.
You saved my Zombicide walkers
Would you mind adding in the description where each of the paints listed go on the model? Some of the other videos use different paints than listed here. I know most is pretty obvious but some of the browns look quite similar.
I am planning on doing 50/50 strong tone and quick shade because it looks rather nice even without a highlight. But if I was going to go back over it after the wash and do some highlighting on the jacket, pants and helmet for example, what would be you recommendation for doing that? Would it be best to use the same base colour and just mix it 70/30 with another similar brighter colour?
Unfortunately, I honestly couldn't tell you what I'd used off the top of my head. It was probably German Camo Beige for the jackets and US Field Drab for trousers; the rest is just whatever was closest at the time. For highlights, ordinarily a couple drops of Ivory in your base colour will give the best results with a thinned shade like this.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio Thanks for replying so quick.
I will just have to try and mess with the colours and see what looks good then!
I'll definitely give the ivory a go. I don't think it needs that much after the wash but I like how you did the extra highlighting step on your british paratrooper camo video just taking it a step further can give great results.
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio I painted my first us infantry soldier with the same base layer and then 50/50 wash. The only issue I am facing is the wash makes the whole model pretty dark. When I look at your example it still retains a decent amount of the base colour without too much stain. So I wondered if I just used too much. I have read that if you apply the matt varnish over your base layer before you apply the wash then it helps avoid staining and helps the wash flow into the gaps. Is this something you would advise doing? Thanks!
@@jakf101 It could be either you've used too much, or it might be worth thinning the shade mix just a fraction more. I'd keep trying the 1:1 mix ratio since it works pretty well for me, but rather dumping it on and calling it done, a few seconds after it's been applied and settled, go back with the same brush while it's still damp and move some of the pooled stuff away from high points and flatter areas - that might help with the darkening.
Have you tried thinning strong tone? Do you know if thats possible.
It's Strong Tone that I thin in this video. Unless you mean the enamel dip product in the big tin? You can thin that with a little turpentine or white spirits, but it pays to be careful with that stuff.
Hi there, thanks for the video. I'm confused about one thing. The mix of strong tone and quick shade medium, do you mean strong tone mixed with soft tone, or do you mean strong tone mixed with a mineral spirit kind of thinner? It might be obvious, but I'm hoping to replicate your technique, and I can't figure out what "quick shade medium" means, as army painter doesn't sell it.
It's actually called 'Quickshade Mixing Medium,' Army Painter's site might be a little funny about getting the name exactly right. It's an acrylic medium that's basically clear shade, mixes with pretty much everything in the range really well!
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio Thanks for the tip! I very much appreciate what you do
What is the difference between soft tone and dark tone..
They're different colours. Dark Tone is a near-black wash, and Soft Tone is a lighter, more sepia finish. It's not as yellow as Seraphim Sepia by comparison, though.
Wow that's impressive. Highlighting is for chumps with that 50/50 mix. All options look good though so I guess up to personal preference. What are yuo going to do with you undoubted stockpile of Agrax though now??
It's still got plenty of uses! ;D Sometimes I like a nice dark finish for some really stark highlights, or just want to grime something up good and proper. Though I think for the rank and flank it's a case of the mix from now on.
What's the mixing medium? Is that just water?
what's the difference between strong tone diluted with medium vs soft tone?
They're different colours. Soft Tone isn't just thinned Strong Tone; it's a sepia colour, versus Strong Tone which is more brown-black.
Good job!! ;)
love your stuff! you ever pick up any Corvus Beli miniatures for Infinity/Aristeia?
Another excellent run through thank you. Those miniatures look great - who makes them please?
These are from the plastic US Infantry kit from Warlord Games!
Brill, thanks. They have a lot of character
What do you mix the strong tone with?
What is mixing medium? Lahmian medium?
Using the strong tone, I somehow always seem to get a shiny finish. I don't understand why.
Ordinarily it'll need slightly more mixing, but Army Painter does point out you'll ordinarily get a slightly glossy finish anyway. Best to just varnish them once you're done.
Like and comment to appease the almighty algorithm 👍🏼
🙏🙏🙏
I might be stupid and totally missed it, but what are you using for a mixing medium?
The Quickshade Mixing Medium. I don't think I mentioned it specifically by name, in retrospect!
@@SonicSledgehammerStudio Thank you! Definitely picking some of this up...great tip and awesome channel!
even more confused .... ahhhhhhhhhhh .. they all look good.