THE DARK SIDE OF COMICS TWITTER: Why I Quit and You Should Too | Ep. 14
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- čas přidán 15. 04. 2024
- In the aftermath of the tragic loss of one of Comics' bright stars amid scandal and social media harassment, I felt compelled to release this video. This isn't about of losing one creator. This is about the pattern of toxicity in the wider Social Media ecosystem and how we can turn it around. This video is the story of how I came to see my part in this toxic system and how it led me to change the way I interact with Social Media itself.
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So much of what you said ... man. I sent Ed a note as soon as I saw his letter, and when he did what he did it just killed me- I had almost no interaction with the man other than him liking a couple of my drawings on Instagram, but had a friend who committed suicide just a year & 1/2 ago. It brought all that shock & pain back instantaneously. What those people did to Ed, they did to all of us, and worse by far, his family. I cannot imagine being able to ever forgive them.
😢
Never had a Twitter account, neither Pre or Post-Musk era. I hate how the underdogs of nerd culture have begun to imitate the bullies that once gave us all grief. Live and let live.
NEVER had Twitter?!? Respect Points +5.
Regarding social media, I agree that it can bring out the worst in us. There's this illusion of a barrier between us and the people we speak to, which is why it's so easy for people to be cruel and say things they would never consider saying to someone's face.
One of the mechanisms I chose to adopt to contain my desire to indulge in this behavior was using my real name and face. I told myself I needed to take ownership of what I said and didn't want to have the luxury of hiding behind a false avatar.
Essentially, I try to be the type of person I would want to interact with online: honest, respectful, and thoughtful.
That’s a great practice. And “illusion” is a great way to put it. We think that just because we’re separated physically that there’s no real presence when we interact digitally, but that’s not the case.
Rob, we’ve met a few times over the years at conventions and I’m fortunate enough to have some art from you. I absolutely love and appreciate this video as someone who also was on social media early and was addicted, and also made the decision to leave Twitter and dramatically throttle back on other platforms. Thanks for sharing.
I had a faint memory of one of your tweets commenting the process of making a comic in practical terms. CZcams is a much better format to communicate and search for that stuff, so I'm glad you are making these videos.
Ed called out the individuals who caused him the most anguish. A side parses the man's final words to care, another pretends its contents never happened.
Damn. That might be the best commentary I've ever encountered on social media. I was waiting for you to say something I disagreed with but every point you made was spot on. Very well said and I could truly feel the realness behind your words.
One of the ironies of this tragedy is that Ed was one of the people that made me feel like I was part of a comic book community that cares about the actual art of words and pictures together. I will really miss him.
I hear that a lot about Ed and Jim. They had a real gift at making folks remember how amazing Comics are, and I’ll miss that. I really think we should strive to continue that legacy in our own way.
Rob Liefeld did a great podcast episode with a tribute to Ed. You should check that out as well.
@@amorbavian Already cried my eyes out listening to it.
I am a very green artist whose probably too old to do it. Every day I think of reasons to quit. But nothing rocked my determination than this situation. It really was truly devastating especially since I've had ppl close to me leave us in the same way. Thank you for your perspective. It is refreshingly helpful and not bogged down with residual resentment. I really appreciate it.
Glad it was helpful to you!
Im starting my career in comics as a career switch. I worked in crisis operations, s*icide prevention, and OD prevention and addiction services. I was also a mandated reporter and a victim's advocate. Cyberbullying just really started entering our case files. I worked in the prison system and had to protect literal sentenced s*x offenders. Moving into working in comics to move AWAY from unnecessary loss...only to be met with this has been...hard to say the least. I still don't know how to formulate my grief on this, but you captured a lot of it. As others have said: i was waiting for any moment to disagree. Nothing here for me to argue. Subbed.
i was living almost completely off the grid working on boats from like 2010-2019. it was like waking up on an alternate reality when i started figuring out what had become of the internet and how it was effecting the real world. its sad state of affairs but im glad to see a well put message divorced from any specific event or action gaining some traction in the algoritim.
Please write a book about your adventures working on board off the grid!
Very well said. I remember people trying to cancel Phoebe Bridgers for not commenting on something, and it was the same day her dad died... a) Not everyone has to comment on something and b) People have lives outside of social media.
Thank you for this dose of sanity and humanity.
This is a great commentary Rob. It sums up so much of my general thoughts on the loss of Ed and my experience with social media and the necessary self-reflection on my participation in it. I’ve been out of twitter for almost eight years now and my removal from it has only resulted in a healthier world view, a more productive life and a more rewarding (if smaller) social life.
I really respect the success you have made for yourself in comics. I held the same respect for Ed.
Ed and Jim’s story felt very familiar to my own. The sense of missing out on the party just as it was wrapping up in the 90’s with the deluge of gimmicks, distribution implosions and culminating bankruptcies. The discovery of independent and 80’s B&W books around the age of 12-13, and eventually the sense of something new and exciting being built in the early 2000’s. Then to the industry largely feeling like it’s primary purpose was to be an IP pitch factory for Hollywood and ever diminishing returns.
Ed loved comics, not a company, not a character, not a genre, not a format, not a launching pad. He loved the medium and he loved sharing that love with his buddy Jim and their friends and their audience.
I’m glad I found your channel today, I hear that love for the medium again. I also see an insightfulness and wisdom as well. Something we should all work on these days. It’s a matter of survival.
I often played CK videos while I worked, it created a sense of a virtual studio for me. Reminding me of when me and buddies were all together in the same town and would spend multiple days a week just drawing and talking about comics and technique, trying to make each other laugh and sharing ideas and support.
I’ll be watching and listening to your channel in the same way now, as long as you keep at it. You’re a calm voice of light and reason in a dark, petty, cruel world. Thanks
Appreciate it!
Wonderfully put, Rob. You gracefully said the quiet part out loud while, in no uncertain terms, acknowledging the beast social media has become (and maybe always was). You're building something special with this channel, and I'm looking forward to watching. God bless.
My uncle just took his life yesterday, he was the strongest man I knew, touched out through every kind of situation- loved his family. He sat in his truck, and took his life, and I’m so lost right now. It hasn’t hit me yet, but I know the moment is coming.. but, I understand why he did, which I won’t get into.. but, those that pushed him to that edge, and over, will have their day too.
Social media can be amazing, or a nightmare..
Really sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine.
@@RobGuilloryArt thank you, it’s just hitting me somewhat, couldn’t sleep.. I apologize for being a bummer in the comment section- I was watching your video, and heard the topic come up, and I started typing. Thank you again
Nah, don’t apologize. I hope things get better for you and your family. I lost my uncle (who was my role model) very unexpectedly years ago and I know that grief pretty well.
I appreciate your thoughtfulness and ownership at a very tough time. As a mental health clinician it’s tough to watch our community hurt and we will hurt from this for a long time.
As harsh as this sounds, for people who write about heroism. They come off like the kinds of villains Comic book heroes punch in the face. It’s why I have been turned off by comics for awhile, and for me this is the last straw. But thank you for posting this video Rob.
Rob, you have AMAZINGLY articulated many of the garbled thoughts that have been rolling around in my head for years. Your words were deeply profound and almost moved me to tears. Your seeming belief that kindness can ultimately overtake malice really resonated with me, and I think your message is one of the most important things anyone can hear in our current social climate. Thank you so much for speaking from the heart and for your excellent work as a comics artist.
Thanks so much for posting this, Rob. First time on your channel, and I'm glad I found it. This is definitely the discussion we should be having in the aftermath of Ed's passing.
Means a lot, Laura. Thanks.
Great video. I've completely changed how I view twitter over the last 5 years. Every problem feels like it's at your doorstep. It's a terrible feedback loop.
This was absolutely needed. You articulated how I’ve felt for years so well. Thank you for your authenticity, integrity, and wisdom.
Appreciate this one Rob, thank-you.
good video Rob. thats definitely one of the worst things about social media, people feeling like they have to comment and often making outlandish comments about issues that really have nothing to do with them. self-righteous people that feel that they have never made a mistake in their life. RIP Ed
So well spoken. Speaking the truth and the lie is so important and vital in this moment. Thank you so much for sharing this thoughtful video.
I appreciate this video, and I appreciate the professional title of the video even more. Thank you for your content and thank you for your work in comics.
Thoughtful and compassionate comments. Thank you
Just an amazing video. Thank you for the thoughts. "It is not a game." So powerful. This is the first of many videos I will watch of yours. Hopefully, I will be able to create art the way I want to watching more of your videos. I never met Ed but he inspired me to create something.
So very well put, Rob. You are one of the good ones.
Thank you for sharing this, and sharing with yourself as an example and not pointing fingers. That has so much more weight. Be well.
Appreciate it! The internet has enough finger pointing. I'm more interested in working on me and hopefully helping people with what I've learned in the process.
Thanks Rob; this was edifying. 💛
Hear, hear…, some deeper thoughts which I really appreciate. Thanks for sharing.
I’m sad about it too Rob. Ed and the state of people on social media 😥
Your words make a lot of sense for me. I’ve been off Twitter/X for the most part for a year or so now. It’s been nice to be honest.
Anyways I’m glad this came up in my feed. You have a new subscriber ☺️
Just found your video. The message in this video is a breath of rational air and I genuinely hope that it goes viral.
thank you for not saying his name - mad respect for you keeping your dignity- social media etiquette is demonic - and that's a lot coming from me.
I'm sorry to hear he passed the way he did. You are right. Words have consequences and Social Media may seem ethereal but it is made up of very real people. It took me a while for myself. But I was able to grow and be mature on the Internet. It took a lot of time and thinking to get where I am. I hope that for a lot of people.
Great stuff Rob, appreciate you taking the time to post. Definitely makes me think about my toxicity online
A lot of us fell into it, new technology and all. I'm pretty confident we can learn from our mistakes and do better from here.
@@RobGuilloryArt I will for sure. I've been pondering this very thing for a while, starting when my ex, who I love more than anyone, started to point it out to me.
Thank you for this, Rob.
Means the world coming from you, Dean. Doing my best to give back to the industry that gave me a lot.
@@RobGuilloryArt I spoke to Ed less than 48 hours before he tragically passed away and I've been thinking A LOT about social media ethics. I have many conflicted feelings that I won't share here but your video helped me crystalize some of my thoughts. Thanks, again, for sharing your careful and sensitive wisdom on these critical matters. It's sad how super obvious some of what you illuminated is -- but it needs to be said, again and again, and respectfully practiced.
We should talk. I’ll bug you on FB!
@@RobGuilloryArt Bet.
Great video Rob. I grew up in the 90’s, so I had the experience of not having internet and social media but, also being around when those things were starting to come into people’s homes. I’ve met some lifelong friends through early chat programs like IRC. I knew that the internet could connect people worldwide but, I never imagined the real impact of what it would turn into.
I really agree with the points you’ve made here. Especially, about not everything online being my business. Even though, someone might put their business out here in the public place,(the argument being if you make it public you’re going to get feedback) it’s still not always my place to add to it. Words do have power and God told us this long ago, so be careful how we speak to one another. Also I really appreciated how you touched on the feeling like a judge aspect. I think that the, identifying of and recognizing instances of bad behavior or wrong doing and judging to condemn a person have become meshed together, inappropriately, in many cases. And everyone is quick to jump on the bandwagon without much thought. We are all flawed and sometimes do and say the wrong things. Calling someone out for wrongs, with the goal of helping them recognize and learn to change is one thing. However, that is seldom the case, with this social media “mob justice” behavior. It really causes more harm than anything else.
Thank you Rob for doing these videos. It is nice to hear a voice for common sense, which seems to be sorely lacking nowadays, on the internet. You’re doing a great service to those who want to be creators and artists in this medium. Look forward to seeing you soon.
Hey, I really appreciate that!
Well said. I couldn’t agree more with this. Thank you.
This was great Rob.
Appreciate this deeply.
12:37 Beautiful presentation. Thank you for sharing.
Good job, Rob! Thanks!
There are so many great points in this video, but the one I want to call out is that you're not required to have an opinion on everything that happens in the world. When I came to that realization, in that moment I achieved enlightenment.
It's anonymity. That's why people are jerks online and driving.
Thank you for this.
Amen, Rob.
You're speaking a lot of truth here and I'm glad to hear other cartoonists saying it. I've seen so much nasty shit on social media over the years, and even participated in it myself, and the Ed Piskor death in particular hit me hard. I knew him, and basically know people on all sides of this... fight, madness, whatever you call it and it's frankly been the ugliest thing I've ever seen in comics.
It's been horrific from the outside, can't imagine what it's been like on the inside.
My intention really wasn't to wade into Ed's business at all. I didn't know him. I've had these thoughts about social media for almost a decade. But reading Ed's note on the role of social media on his mindset at the end really stuck with me.
@@RobGuilloryArt I feel you because I've had the same thoughts. I don't think there is much to publicly litigate about this situation any more. I have been changing how I engage with social media over the years and this event was just one major, tragic reminder that I shouldn't lose sight of that, but in fact need to redouble my efforts.
Very well spoken, bravo!
It’s really a better description to call it “antisocial media”. I’ve been online in one way or another since the late 1980s, and the development of these user-mining cesspools in the past 10-15 years has been worse than anything before it.
Just found you and your channel. I basically gave up on the comics medium because how many people pros and fans included are cruel to each other all the time. The way I see it the comic book pros are acting less like pros but more like bully’s and mean girls. The same bullies we nerds fought with for years that were cruel to us because we were different and now we have become what we have hated and social media has played a huge part in it. I have mad respect for you after seeing this video and I believe your the last comic book pro that is an actual pro if you know what I mean. You not just gained a new subscriber but a new fan as well. 😎
Appreciate it! There are tons of pros that feel like I do. They’re just scared of the repercussions of speaking. And I was too for a while. I’m just tired of the drama and want this medium I love to thrive.
@@RobGuilloryArt I know for a while I was apart of the industry as a aspiring writer and have warned pros about this but they just made fun of me and my autism and blackmailed me and never spoke to me again. But it’s dark and unfortunately there’s no accountability on both sides. Regarding cg and anti cg and now shops are closing because of this and now someone is dead. That why as a fellow fan I propose that until this gets fixed we vote with our wallet and send the publishers and the pros the message that this type of behavior is unacceptable and we as consumers and fans will not tolerate it no more on both sides. But then again What do you think we as fan should do to combat this behavior from pros and fans alike?
The hive mind aspect of social media has pretty much turned me off on participating in comics
Indie author and musician myself and I avoid social media like the plague. Hate how toxic, miserable and vitriol they are. Echo chambers of cults constantly attacking each other and bringing each other down. Brings out the absolute worst in everyone I’ve ever seen use them.
“No, if we push for this environment, everything will get better.”
One thing that used to be a big part of business is. Don’t ever talk sex, drugs, politics and religion. I try and stick to this and it’s kept me in line.
Solid video. Well done.
keep love in your heart
When did any of the social media creators say they built their products to speak truth to power? The only ones I can see that say that are websites that are not major sites but those lower tear sites that were built to be lawless.
This should be viral. Everyone needs this message. Eloquent, wise, and thought provoking. Certainly made me think about my online behavior. I do try and be more responsible with it as I’m 41 and use my real name on all platforms. It did make me stop and think if I really need to speak sometimes.
That's the hope! Thanks!
Listen to some of Tristan Harris's talks on social media from one of the engineers that created the system. What he explains is scary. Also read "Wanting" by Luke Burgis. Its a study of memetic desire and really explains the psychology that makes social media a "success"
Didn't know I was going to church this morning, but glad I did. Good stuff as always, good sir.
Also, a suggestion for another episode. You alluded to you not owing explanations to your readers, and I agree. But I'd love to know your opinions on what a creator does owe to his fans. Thinking of things like George R. R. Martin, and the inevitable likelihood that we'll never see the end of his series. Or of "Morning Glories" which I loved, but that I don't think we'll ever get an end to either. It'd be interesting to see what you think as a creator, you do owe to your fans? Just a thought if you're interested in doing anything on it.
Fantastic idea. I'm planning to do an episode on Farmhand (which is obviously delayed), so this could be a GREAT fit for that one. Thanks for the idea!
@RobGuilloryArt Can't wait. For the video and the Farmhand! (But I mean, CAN wait, so take your time. But definitely will be looking forward to them both!)
@@supertownsend Your patience is MUCH appreciated!
You're speaking true facts in this vid.
Im rarely on Twitter myself.
Of course made worse by the Current Owner which i kinda predicted
"I have some really bad habits and I was able to see them later on social media for what they were. For this I blame, not myself, but the entirety of social media and every person who created it" --the average criticism of social media.
A lot of the world's capital right now is popularity, not income. Remember that old question: would you rather be rich or famous? A lot of people are opting for "famous." The current climate is the result.
Take everything you know about materialistic greed and see if it still applies to immaterial greed. I think it still does.
What you said really nails it. This is the inevitable end result of a nearly global shift into attention economics. Social darwinism in a virtual marketplace where clicks are currency. Trying to become more "mindful," and refrain from participating, is the only way to not make it worse, but then you are no longer in the game unless you are already some sort of known quantity. Currently kind of lose-lose situation, if your work requires any sort of "attention." The algo is the ultimate judge.
@@badicecream2913 It's possible to curate a large audience without directly engaging with it. If I were counsel to anyone with a media presence, I'd say: never directly interact with your audience outside of narrow, controlled circumstances.
Marvel used to interact with readers in letter columns and the Bullpen Bulletins. It was Kayfabe interaction, but it worked.
The problem with social media especially with comics and other forms of media...its that nowadays its politically loaded and downright tribalistic. Its like you cannot have a differing opinion on anything on social media and even if you have a differing opinion you get called a grifter or a any other *insert buzzword here*. Case and point for example the comic book store owner that said how modern comics failed in appealing to the audience to which comics twitter decided to make fun of the guy of having his opinion and when mark millar stepped in and said he agreed, comics twitter attacked him as well calling him out of touch and other *insert buzzword here*.
And another funny thing when it comes to comics twitter is their level of hypocrisy...in terms of the same comics ppl that will say they want to be inclusive and avoid gatekeeping will be the same people that will selective in their inclusion and will gatekeeping anyone who have a differing opinion.
I’m so glad you made this video you have said some of things. I have been thinking about for several years now. I also avoid Twitter. That place is so toxic. It’s unreal. A wiseman once predicted that in the future the fabric of social humanity and morality will break down and that we would accept things that we normally would not have. That man’s name was Nastradamus. I believe we are in the beginning of that time now. The irony of it is social media was meant to bring us closer together and a better understanding through communication. But it has proven to do the opposite, drove us further apart, and created more animosity between us. When did we stop caring for each other or having faith in humanity? That is the question and is it going to get worse?
2 things can be true: Ed did some bad things but he also didn’t deserve to lose his life over them. In the US we have a legal system to get justice for crimes. If someone commits a wrong that doesn’t rise to the level of crime, then what amount of public shaming is ok? I’m not the arbiter of this, but as a woman who had my dad contact the FBI about a 35yo man I met online as a 12yo (he was sending me MtG cards & ofc I thought we were just friends), I know there are 2 sides to it. But we can all agree that pile-ons should be avoided
Who are y'all talking about? This video provides no context to amything
Appreciate the well-thought out take.
Bro. I didn't recognize you without the hat. 😁. But I see you're based in Lafayette. I'm from Baton Rouge and live in Harvey Louisiana. What's up? Hope one day we cross paths. Keep writing and drawing.
TRUTH
Why the secrecy about his name?
for my part - I found it disgusting how people who I was never recommended content from before - were suddenly showing up with his name and photo - I hit "do not recommend this channel" on all of them... This video's message is so welcome - Ive seen Chew but never bought it - I will now
I debated using it or not, honestly. But I didn’t want this to feel like bullshit clickbait, but an honest discussion on a major factor that led to Piskor’s death. Also, I just didn’t feel right using his name. As weird as it might sound, I feel like the dude has been through enough, and I just want to leave him at peace.
from chew?
I am the CHEW guy, lol.
Yep. Use wisdom and discernment.
🖤💛🖤
The medium was everything to Ed. And there's a lesson there. This industry is too cruel to be everything.
very wise words, thank you for this
Very poignant
The lede keeps getting buried. The man got caught trying to sexually engage with a minor, and then decided to take his own life when he was caught - but before he did, he decided to aim the vitriol at his victim. He made a series of choices that were horrible, right up to the very end. I think that's the real tragedy. I wish he'd gotten help before he hit up a teenage girl for sex, and then maybe we wouldn't be here talking about this horribleness.
This is literally why I framed the video the way I did. This isn't a debate or a defense of his behavior. This is about how I believe social media clearly had a role in how this tragedy ended, which is an issue that's been on my mind for some time. It's a call for us to reconsider how we seek justice. I don't think Twitter is a great tool to get justice. But it is a great tool to burn someone down.
"Did some things he shouldn't have done" is the thing to keep in mind here. Stop defending bad behavior. Kust because he got dragged for being a creep doesn't make social media a bad thing. Twitter isn't a real place but the spaces he misbehaved in and the people he was shitty to are real.
Social media turned possible questionable decisions and conversations (None of which, BTW, actually "prove" anything based on what was actually presented) into a crapload of people calling him a "pedophile", "someone who likes little kids", etc. etc. etc. Within days of some cropped, blacked out and edited DM's surfacing the guy lost a contract for a new book, had an art event cancelled, had his channel partner break up his partnership with him, had his former publisher basically washing their hands of him and had the local news coming to his house and that of his parents' house (while showing the address). The fact you just think that's merely being "dragged" shows you're part of the problem. Also, some people within his own industry were happily pushing false claims about him (before often hiding, deleting, or "protecting" their Tweets about it)....saying he was using a burner account, linking it to homophobic comments, saying he was defending the age of consent in PA through said burner account, etc.....all of that was bullshit. That's not being "dragged" bud....it's intentional and malicious character assassination..
I'm not defending bad behavior. What I'm saying is, it's pretty obvious that Twitter made a bad situation much worse, so maybe let's think about handling these kinds of situations differently.
@@RobGuilloryArt Exactly. Social media took something that at worst, was questionable DM's and possible "creepiness" and, at best, just awkwardness and not good awarenesss of boundaries, into accusations of pedophilia, repeated "grooming" attempts, homophobia, "Comicsgate" connections, etc.....almost all of which, based on what we KNOW, were baseless. Hell, I saw multiple people saying Jim Rugg should also be viewed with suspicion because of his "connection" to Ed.....mind you, he was accused of absolutely nothing and even if there was not so innocent intent with Ed's DM's, this is a case where the primary person wouldn't even have faced legal charges....but people are out there putting on their best McCarthy Era witch hunt hats and saying his CZcams channel partner should also be thrown in the mix. It's weird and unhinged herd mentality at it's most dangerous.....and the fact a lot of the people who took part in it think they're "righteous" somehow is scary.
Amen, Rob.
🖤💛🖤