Comparing Modern to Victorian Corsets (and why not all corsets are ok)
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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Noelle (Costuming Drama)'s channel: / @costuming_drama
For loads more analysis and review of modern corsets, Lucy's Corsetry is an excellent channel to check out: / bishonenrancher
Lucy's website is also a fabulous resource for corsetry knowledge, and includes a comprehensive database of current corset sellers: lucycorsetry.com/
A slightly less comprehensive list of corsetmakers I've put together myself: bernadettebanner.co.uk/corset...
FOOTNOTES:
[1] Image © Vanyanis, used with permission.
[2] Home Notes. "The KHIVA Corselet". Home Notes, vol. IV, 10 November, 1894, p. 116. Google Books, books.google.com/books?id=Bzq....
[3] The Sioux County journal. [volume] (Harrison, Nebraska), 13 Feb. 1896. Chronicling America: Historic American Newspapers. Lib. of Congress. chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...
[4] "Ferris Athletic Waist." General Federation Bulletin, vol. V, no. 9, 1908. Nineteenth Century Collections Online, link.gale.com/apps/doc/VCEHOF269928254/NCCO?u=nypl&sid=NCCO&xid=3c519e8c. Accessed 2 Jan. 2021.
[5] "Maud of Wales with her regalia as queen of Norway" January, 1901. Wikimedia Commons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maud_of...
[6] "Corset" [Stays]. Mid 18th c. The Metropolitan Museum of Art. www.metmuseum.org/art/collect...
[7] Portrait of a woman, ca.1860s. Wikimedia Commons commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
[8] This point is often made by dress historian and 19th century specialist Luca Costigliolo.
[9] Fig. 165 - Corset droit 1904. Wikimedia Commons commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
[10] Hecklinger, Charles. "The Keystone Guide to Jacket and Dress Cutting". The Herald of Fashion co., New York. 1895. [archive.org/details/keystonej...](archive.org/details/keystonej...)
Footage of Symington corsets © Leicestershire Collections, used with permission.
0:00 Introduction & Some Necessary Disclaimers
2:22 Construction Differences: Modern vs Victorian
5:08 A Corset for Every Size & Purpose
6:59 In Defence of Shapely Bellies
8:01 ALL SHOES are Inherently Painful. (Assumption, Generalization, Misconception)
11:09 The Roles of Fit and Size in Comfort
13:27 My Experience Wearing the Mass-Manufacture Corset
15:50 Corsetting the Plus Sized Body (ft. Costuming Drama)
20:04 Questioning Why We Believe What We Believe
23:20 Adventuring with Audible
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Music:
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'Charmed Encounter' by Arthur Benson
'Incidental Encounter' by Arthur Benson
'Yellow Light' by Arthur Benson
'Painting the World' by Raymond Grouse
Marty Gots a Plan Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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Corset padding: "If you don't have homemade curves, store-bought is fine."
I snorted
@@Shenan-again "you could, of course, buy your curves if you are of more modest means." *glares over the rim of her glasses* "They won't be as good."
This is 100% why I like corsets. The women in my family are naturally built like stocky squares. With a corset and padding, I can finally look like a stocky hourglass instead 😂
@@10Raccoon
Stocky hourglasses are good. I might even be able to join you in that niche. If I can get a good corset! 😹
+
Corset wearers always say corsets are fine, but nobody asks the corset if it is fine.
I do! But then I have this habit of inadvertently personifying inanimate objects so am known to apologise to objects and ask if they are ok a lot. ROFL
@@AlexaFaie thats honestly the most wholesome thing i've heard all day
Thank you😂
Inspirational
@@AlexaFaie that is amazing.
"Not everyone squishes the same way " is a quote I didn't know I needed in my life but now definitely do
99
I read that right as she said it 😂
Alas, me too M.K. I'm thinking the corsets Bernadette has been building may be just the ticket. I plan to give it a go.
YES
My ribs feel ya! I sewed my own corset for college. Only good for flattening my chest so I look like an... ( sigh 😓 ) Androgynous little anime boy, BUT I WAS PROUD of it once done ✅and happy to STILL have all 4 uv my fingers & 3 pinkies az well 💝 HAZZAH!!!
In ancient times clothes were tailored and made to fit the person. Today the trend is to make every person fit the same clothes. My favorite quote in this sense has always been: "One size fits all", which it ironically never does.
Hats? I think that accessories are often fine, but ymmv about whether or not those are clothes
@@runeanonymous9760 my sister and I are less than two inches apart in height and while my head is almost small enough to wear children’s hats, she cannot wear normal adult hats because her head is too big. “One size fits all” isn’t true very often anymore because of the obesity epidemic
@@hayleymarse2853 My mom had that issue with finding hats that fit her correctly
@@runeanonymous9760 my head has never fit a hat since reaching puberty, mostly. the one and ONLY time i found a hat that actually fit my head properly, it was at a high end fashion store, the hats were all sized, and they cost hundreds of dollars. that was a rollercoaster of emotions. so no, hats don't work as one size fits all either. closer to one size fits most though. accessories really vary too! ring sizes come to mind. bracelets also vary depending on your wrist size/how much your hand can squish to fit through. human bodies are all unique (even identical twins small have differences!) so we shouldn't expect what we wear to be any different, i think.
You're comment made me think of how in Korea many women's clothing pieces sold in markets were "free size" aka one size only. So no small, medium, or large just one size and it was usually short and tight
As a corsetmaker I think the real distinction shouldn't be between historical and modern corsets, it should be between functional corsets and fashion corsets. The difference between a 'real' modern corset and a fashion corset is a lot greater than that between it and a historical one.
I fave no idea what fashion corset even is😭 Is it when its moatly waist sincher underbust?
@@taritangeo4948 one is a top and the other is underwear
YES! I'm so glad to see someone point this out.
I wear a well structured modern corset as functional underwear that helps to support my back because it helps relieve pain. A fashion corset would not do anything for that at all. I have nothing against fashion corsets but they are completely different from modern corsets used for support or waist training.
I'd really love to see a video going into the differences between various types of modern corsetry. It seems like a lot of people don't know.
@@taritangeo4948 A fashion corset is the equivalent of a $10 plastic spike shoe from the bargain bin. It would protect your foot from a stray lego piece... but otherwise fails in ALL aspects of functional footwear. (But they look cute in photos so I own a pair) Those plastic heels have no grip on the sole, no flex in the instep, the straps to hold them on are placed with no regard to the curves of my actual foot, and the materials get quite slippery with any amount of foot sweat. Likewise, a fashion corset looks VAGUELY like a real corset but uses the cheapest, fastest, most economical construction process throughout. If you must buy one for looks, make sure to NOT put any stress on the fabric by attempting to lace it tightly. (Because your muscles are far stronger than its cheap construction!)
A "real" corset has more in common with the spike heels used by Broadway dancers. Both cost hundreds of dollars for a reason! Materials that are chosen for durability AND breathability AND beauty. Interior dimensions that are carefully fitted to the foot/ torso in question with padding so the exterior dimensions of the shoe/corset have the desired look. Subtle and complex safety features also add to the price tag. After all, the new customer may not know just how important a sole that grips even on wet floors is, or how important it is that the rigid bones on the side of a corset avoid the nerve bundle running across the hip. ^_^
@@arit8009 eh, A lot of Orchard Corsets styles are under $100, and I think they’re pretty decent, especially given their price. The main thing that makes them decent is that they have many waist length and curve options, so they are able to fit a wide range of body types. My first proper (non fashion) corset was from Orchard Corset. I was able to get a longer line underbust (because I’m long waisted), with plenty of rib and hip spring. It’s very comfortable. It’s not the beautifully made bespoke corset you could get from somewhere like RedThreaded, but it is comfortable, it does its job very well, and it has lasted me years now. It’s steel boned, rather than synthetic whalebone (which I do prefer), but steel is better than cheap plastic boning. I still wear it whenever I need an underbust, and it serves me very well. That being said, it is an undergarment, not a fashion corset. It’s made of cotton twill, there’s no fancy pattern, it’s a very plain corset.
So I wouldn’t say that ALL cheap (under $100) corsets are awful and never work well. But I would advise people to stay far away from Corset Story and Corsets UK. They really aren’t great.
Designing clothes for people, not designing people to fit clothes!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
May I ask a question?
I have honestly been
thinking of getting a corset because I have a serious slouching problem. I mean to use it at least twice a week, in hopes it will help my posture a bit. Normally, it would be better to consult a doctor, but y'know, pandemic and stuff. I don't mind the shape or the look, I just want to get rid of my back pain. Any advice would be appreciated :)
@@mnurkose7316 Yes, me too! I thought about it a lot
@@mnurkose7316 did you see Nicole Rudolph's video on the ribbon corset? I have been looking at that for back support.
Unforuntly noone can make cloths that fit all.
when she said "non heteronormative historical fiction" my brain short circuited, because that's something I'm very passionate about and I never really expected Bernadette to mention it
if you want feel free to share more info on this as I have no idea what it means (but am very interested!)
It's about stories that defy the patriarchal perspective of society. Usually heteronormative historical fictions have only white straight protagonists, the man is strong and the woman is dependable (structurally and emotionally), the black characters are figurative and the gay characters are nonexistent , the girl always needs to be saved by a hero... And that's when non heteronormative historical fiction comes to play and brings us fierce ladies and a myriad of diverse characters!
@@makaelaischillin Hi, Galaxy Princette. I hope this comment finds you well. I understand what you mean about writing choices, particularly because I'm a writer and comic book artists myself and I know that the creative process is not (or should not be) something made with the only intention of pleasing everybody.
That being said, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with your statement of an abundance of non-heteronormative historical fiction, specially when we're talking abou classics, most popular titles of historical fiction. There's still a long way to go in that regard, and non-heteronormative historical fiction is, in fact, the niche inside the niche.
I also have to disagree when you say it doesn't matter cause the numbers are out there to prove that that's no true: readers all around the world are eager to read stories from different perspectives than the white privileged one, so it clearly matters to some people through which angle they're seeing that story.
Of course if you are a writer you don't need to please those people, there's still a public that likes and wants heteronormative narratives and you'll still have your audience... The only thing you should not be doing is to be dismissive of other perspectives.
okay
okay okay
"Not everyone squishes the same way" is an adorable phrase
I feel like as clothing became less restrictive, the cultural view of "how to look fashionable" went from "of course you'll use padding to achieve the fashionable silhouette" to "you need to change your own naked body to achieve the fashionable silhouette". I haven't done that much research into the history of diet culture, but it feels like this might be the case.
Oh wow 😳 you’re so freaking right
+
Abby Cox has talked about this on her I wore 18th Century Clothes daily and her follow up video, I think.
And it made so much sense to me, and it’s why I feel so much more comfortable in historical clothing than in modern clothing. I can build out the silhouette I want in historical clothing, but my body as is will never fit the fashionable shape and size required today.
I feel so much more confident and stylish and beautiful in historical clothing.
Wow! Great point.
Except that padding continues to be very much a thing? Most bras come with built in padding and theres tons of ass/hip enhancing garments.
Kind of obsessed with the look of Steampunk Victorian Goth Trash Teenager Bernadette though...
I'd love to see her re-construct this look knowing everything she's learned about historical garments.
Same!😂
Same! I wanna see more pics of that.
@@pyrotheevilplatypus All the YES
So you want more of thos pictures. :-)
For some reason every time period has its own iconic and fashionable silhouette but we nowadays want to have fashionable body type, not silhouette.
Very interesting observation
We also have more access to plastic surgery. Salem did a video on the BBL and modern beauty standards.
People used to slather bird crap on their faces, they definitely wanted/were pressured to a full-body appearance
Also, what creates a body silhouette if not body type? An empty oxymoron
you give all the pros and cons of corset wearing
My dude I see you in Minecraft videos and corsetry videos and I guess we’re both here so I can’t say much but HOW ARE YOU EVERYWHERE MAN
yes
Bernadette: "Thank you for listening to yet another one of my corset rants."
Everyone in the audience: "We will listen to anything you have to say on anything"
True though
So true. This is a place I know I can come for some lovely, chill, informative videos. Apparently some people refer to having "comfort content" on YT and Bernadette fills that role for me for sure.
YES IT'S TRUE WE WILL
Not yelling - being enthusiastically emphatic.
I am certain that she could authoritatively read the phone book.
I'm glad someone else already said this.
Me as male 30' working on the construction site as an electrical engineer.
*hhhmm this polite lady make corset thing interesting*
Fashion history is great! You should look more into it. I think we need more blokes looking into their side.
Mechanical engineer here, about to tight lace his safety boots.
For real though, I'll probably never need to know any of this, but the passion in these videos is amazing and probably why I can't stop watching.
It's the beauty that is the internet, where passion are shared. Sometimes for the good, sometimes bad, but now particularly, for the endearing watcher who's just happy to see one talk with such passion.
Tl;dr: Internet very good
i think there's a lot of parallels between clothing and other kinds of engineering, its designing stuff to use right? At least i see that as a civil engineer, I remember the first sewing pattern i saw and thought to myself hmmm this basically requires a similar skill set to understand as building plans. ditto with knitting patterns and writing code as well.
The interweb heard you talking about hot lingerie and brought you here.
It doesn’t get any better than this. Believe me.
People often forget that when clothes are made to your body, it's almost like second skin.
Not always. My mom was an amazing seamstress. I grew up wearing clothes she made for me and mass produced clothes. She never made them skin tight. She had a lot of happy customers because their clothes were made to fit them well. And they always got comments on how good they looked wearing them.
As a THICC & busty perrson & a corset wearer from my early 20s to this day [34] I must admit we have great corsetry culture here in Poland... and we really put a pressure on educating people who want to join the wagon.
I was given all the knowledge I might need, I was helped to find the right corset maker for my shapes, and by them - the right corset. Therefore I never had a corset that would cause me a pain, and I wear them more or less full day if I decide I feel like wearing a corset :-)
As someone said in comments - it is not about modern vs historical - it is about well-made or not corset. I have several "off-the-rack" corsets from polish companies, that fit me well and cause no discomfort of whatsoever... but it is because 1. they are properly sewn and 2. I was given help to pick the right piece for me
Wow! You’re so lucky to live in Poland! I have to admit, that would be one of my top places to live
@@hayleymarse2853 I may only assume you are from US or other third world country... because this is not a good place to live if you are not middle-aged white & straight man, also a catholic.
Any other person has shit ton of crap to deal with
Hiiii fellow busty person here, do you have a specific corset maker/brand you could recommend?
@@izuizabela6613 Well I am Catholic hence why I want to live there (not straight or male though). I think Poland is a beautiful country
@@melima_ you can find one of our polish brands - Rebel Madness on Etsy! :) I love their corsets! From Polish seamstresses - I may recommend either Palina Karnei or Anna Mieszkowska from Absuynt - both have IG and FB pages. From US brands - Retrofollie and Timeless Trends.
I gave a virtual high five to Noelle when she said "I want snack room for tacos" in my corsets because YES! Because as a squishy person, I too, want snack room. That is one thing I love about the Victorian era is that they padded out the areas that needed help and gave grace in clothes for it to be let out for when a woman gained weight or the dress was passed around. They knew that the gown or clothing wasn't going to have a singular owner.
Who is noelle👀
Nevermind i saw it lol
#Peopleneedtoeat
@@brittanypanda9348 Noelle is linked in the description. She’s a friend of Bernadette and has a CZcams channel where she does costuming. She’s a different character to Bernadette but I really like her just as much
As an average person I also want snack room for tacos 😆 snack room equality
"Corsets are like shoes" makes so much sense bc there's a huge range of fashion vs function, and it's super important to wear what fits you correctly or there can be some long-term damage.
Perfect analogy 👌🏻👌🏻
Also if you don't wear anything under them you'll smell bad and get a blister
This is why I love to compare chemises/corsets to socks/shoes. Wear your torso socks, people
@@lillyschneider2036 torso sock 🤣
As someone who wears barefoot shoes due to finding normal shoes stiff and uncomfortable and prefers getting the sensory feedback of a barefoot sole, I do in fact wonder if some people will still find even fitted corsets uncomfortable.
@@toni2309
If we compare the stiffness of the shoe and sole to the amount and stiffness of the boning in a corset, then it makes sense to assume that some people will prefer a completely unboned corset, more of a very fitted waistcoat than what most people think of as a corset, just like you prefer soft-soles shoes.
ive been singing a corsets praises for a while now and I use the shoe metaphor all the time! it really helps to illustrate how times have changed how we perceive the past!
i hope some day we can go back to having clothes tailored to fit the bodies. i understand it would be expensive but id rather spend money on well fitted clothes over feeling like my body proportions are wrong because i cant fit into anything off the rack.
I feel like this is why celebrities always look perfect in candid photos... they get all their clothes, even jeans and tshirts, altered to fit perfectly
EShakti is a great step in this direction, fyi.
With digital scanning and AI pattern drafting, that day should not be far future
You can do this now. There are tailors who can make clothes for you
As mentioned earlier, you can get either a tailor (i.e. this is why couture is so expensive and doesn't make the fashion houses money, while pret-a-porter/ready-to-wear does) or make it yourself or adapt existing pieces. Its just unfair to expect everyone to change just for your tastes when you can adapt, but it will take money, effort and time. Not all of us have that, please be thoughtful.
I'm late - as per the usual - but thank you for this thoughtful comparison / analysis. Having put my body into a butt-ton (very scientific unit of quantity) of corsets, both OTR and custom, I agree with everything said here - especially the spectrum of relative comfort (and the subjectivity of comfort based on body size and compressibility).
Regarding the modern overbust's pressure on your side-front rib causing discomfort, I recognize that corset as one that was very likely draped on a mannequin whose "rib cage" is laterally more narrow, and thicker along the sagittal plane. While the total rib circumference might have matched your own, the distribution in the panels was probably not anatomically designed. Speaking for myself - if a corset fits my wasp-waist dressform like a glove, it's not going to be a fun time for me (even though our general measurements are similar).
Also thank you for the shoutout in the dooblydoo 🙊
The Corset Queen has arrived! ♥️✨
Oohh you know what, I never thought about this! I wore a long line strapless bra where I had that issue. I cut out the boning on the sides while at my sister's wedding because it was so painful. Got rid of the bra after that.
A "butt" is a unit of volume. ~491 litres or 130 gallons.
I love butt-ton - it also sounds like button!
I'm an opera singer, and I breathe very, very deeply in cheap, modern, non-custom corsets for a living. I also have very curvy proportions, and a connective tissue disorder which means my ribs don't actually stay where they're supposed to be. This means it's very easy to move my ribs around inside my torso with an even slightly tightly-laced corset, so I squish down a lot at the waist without noticing that it's moved my ribs around until after I remove the garment. Tl;dr the cheap, modern corset boning that wants to lie so flat... really can't, and certainly not when I'm singing and inflating my upper ribcage so much to even further exaggerate the bend.
I break modern corsets. All the time. Every time I wear a cheap, modern corset as a costume, the boning seems to go back to the costume department literally snapped in half in the boning channels, and the costumers who work with me a lot regularly tell me that they use my needing a corset as an excuse to re-bone the terrible modern corsets in their stock because "Robin broke the boning again".
All this to say: I LOVE singing in corsets, and am now saving up to get myself a real, bespoke, supportive corset I can bring to the poor costumers instead of them continuously sacrificing their modern corsets to me. I know they wish they could give me historically accurate corsets, but that's not exactly where the higher-ups really let much of their budget go, given the audiences don't usually see them.
I wear a ton of the not-comfortable ones for my job. By the time performances actually start again, I want a real, bespoke one I can bring to them instead. Tl;dr: it'll be better for EVERYONE - and this one will actually last longer than one show run!
I'm a nerd for opera and SO glad you'll be getting a good corset. I once attended a lecture on corsetry by an academic and costumer for the opera who began research into the craft after a soprano was injured by a broken corset bone for the reasons you described. I now have a great deal of motherly concern for all opera singers and any other athletes who work in a corset.
Doesn't moving your ribs where they shouldn't be, especially if you have a connective tissue disorder, risk long term damage? I'm not a medical professional, but I do know that the advice for people who have problems that mean they can hyper-extend is that you shouldn't do it, as it can stretch and damage muscles and put more strain on already weak connective tissue.
Talk to your employer please! You are risking permanent damage doing this when they can afford a bespoke corset for you!!!
@@iChillypepper I second that. Tell them about your medical condition, that you feel you are risking both possible long-term damage and (should a broken bone happen to dig into your body) short-term injury and ask for a properly fitting corset.
At least in my home (the UK, not sure about elsewhere), if the corset is a requirement of your job and you either have a medical condition that makes it hard for you to wear the one supplied and/or the one supplied is injuring you or is likely to do so in future, your employer would probably be legally obliged to provide you with an alternative. I am not a lawyer, but from my basic layman's knowledge, it would probably come under workplace health and safety (ie their duty of care as an employer to provide a safe working environment and appropriate equipment to their employees). Plus, as you have a connective tissue disorder, disability legislation might also apply. In the UK, if you have a disability or long-term health problem, your employer is obliged to make any "reasonable adjustments" you need in order to be able to do your job safely and effectively. A properly fitting corset sounds like a pretty reasonable adjustment to me.
I’m also an opera singer!!!! I’m a lyric and i ADORE singing in corsets. There is literally nothing better for posture, and i find it nice to have something i can breathe against, if that makes sense?
Corsets are like bras, they’re nice but not all of them are greeeeat
*moral of the story:* corsets are literally pre-bras
Oh definitely.
Yeah nobody’s gonna like the same size or style bra, find one that fits you well and is comfortable for you
I both agree and disagree. Corsets and clearly pre-bras. Also, vastly superior. I have never owned a bra that I didn’t hate (even as a professional bra fitter). I find a well fitting corset so much more comfortable! Planning to go with corsets full time once I can.
@@loraleitourtillottwiehr2473 where do you get you're corsets? I'm heavy busted and want something to support my bust a bit more than my bra does
@@loraleitourtillottwiehr2473 you cant speak absolute superiority in something that is a matter of taste. That's like saying bikini panties are superior to thongs. Underwear is a personal choice.
“Not everyone squishes the same way” I like this
I had worn mass produced corsets in the past. I've always chosen under bust styles.
A couple years ago my spine started giving me severe pain. My doc gave me a brace. It was worn outside your clothes. I noticed it felt a lot like a corset. I put on a waist cincher corset, laced it tight in the middle and my pain was gone! I rarely need a pill and it reduces my waist 😉
What the medical corset looks like
2:00 here
I bought my first corset which is a mass produced one and honestly it was so comfortable for me
I was SO distracted by the black shape moving in the background and it took me an embarrassingly long time to realise it was a reflection and *not* in fact another human that Bernadette was able to completely ignore with the lack of anxiety/performance skills of a pro. 😂😂😂
😂😂 I wish!
Im so glad im not the only one. At first I thought it was a person, then I was like, no... it has to be an animal or something.
Me: "Huh? Is that a leaf? Animal? Oooh, ghost??" *5 mins later* "Oh, it's a mirror."
@@andioneal7567 I was trying to figure out why his little lordship was on a surface unsupervised!!!
I thought it was a black cat at first.
So what Bernadette says is that Victorian clothing was more... inclusive in term of body shape than modern clothing.
M, as a squishy person appreciate that.
Clothes were tailored to fit the person, so they would fit much better. That’s a lot more expensive nowadays
@@sunsetskye483 plus back then practically everyone knew how to sew and such, today how many people you pass on the street do you think even know how to use a sewing machine? 👽👀
@@joshuagaither4866 In my defense I can hand-sew quite well, it's just sewing machines are expensive and my grandmother's needs to be fixed
Yea! I want a really old corset cause my corset sucks and can't fit me at all... Like it was 15$ but still! But I need a good one...
@@Goldenheart_345 I don't get along with sewing machines, but I can hand sew.
The idea that clothes are made to fit one body type drove me to make my own clothes. My shoulders are too big, and my waist to hip ratio is smaller than most pants are made for. I've learned how to make things that fit specifically to me and the shape I want with costumes and stuff. But again, that fear of making things larger did get in my head for a while. It's actually been through watching drag queens that I decided to look at what shapes I get in my costumes other than just a padded bra.
Fast fashion makes clothing to not fit correctly. I have health issues and my proportions are weird so I am starting to make my own clothes as well. I am 5ft2in yet my proportions are long and I am very pear shaped.
I have large thighs but small hips and waist. Most pants don't fit that well.
Im not comfortable with making my own clothes but I sure would like to, considering all pants I buy, are too wide on my small waist and too long because I'm short and surprise, I still have thighs to support. Not to mention my complete absence of shoulders and being very flat chested, makes a majority of top not very flattering because they're not cut for - very small person with no shoulders or chest. Unless I shop in the kids section but then... Im afraid it's going to be a little too tight.
Shoulders too big according to whome?
I gotta say: one of my best purchases when I was in my early 20's was ordering a bespoke corset. Sent in my unique measurements, paid a little extra because I carry a little extra in the booble area. I still have it and wear it over a decade later. Got it for cosplay, wore it under my wedding dress, still use it now for proper posture when I work. (Currently I work from home so I can put in on and off at will)
Where did you order it from?
@@ac7278 bespoke
The best part of the Victorian era clothing is that almost anyone could have the perfect body type. It was a shape not a size and you had many options to achieve that shape. Now it is a size and if your gene pool is not the best you are just stuck!
As a petite, I agree 100%. If you are not normal or plus sized, there is almost nowhere to shop - not even the "size inclusive" stores.
@@MairaBay I have had 4 babies and am over 50 years old and nothing looks like it should. I am over weight and top heavy my hopes of finding something that makes me look good is not going to happen in the modern world. The styles of the Victorian era are ones that would allow of the imperfect to look beautiful. Padding and stays the cut and the form of the clothes makes the shape not just the imperfect body.
It's still a shape too it's just literally a genetic lottery whether you can achieve it or not and if you can't you're expected to blame your body for that
Plastic surgery!
@@ravina6686 Why though? Why should people have to have surgery just to fit into some stupid vain image of beauty?
I have a Ladies Home Journal from 1896, and there’s an article about choosing the right corset for your figure. It really opened my eyes to realizing that women were not size 2 until the fifties.
Size 2? LOL, my dear. There was no size 2 in the 50s. My mother was a whole 5' tall, weighed 98 pounds...and wore a 10. Different sizing back then, and the sizing changed in the 70s as we children grew up massively bigger than our mothers. It changed again in the 90s, although it wasn't as heralded as the first sizing change. In the end, my mother had to go to the children's department to find clothes that fit...the sizing had outstripped her petite size.
I remember using a Victorian corset (or at least a reproduction) for a pirate costume when I was 14. My mom wore it for her costume (and she still had it) and she found it uncomfortable while I found it very comfortable (we are definitely not the same shape and squish). At the same time, I found a cheap one at a resale store about a week ago (tried it on just for fun) and didn't like it (flat, no give, couldn't move much in it). So, I've experienced both.
Now I know it's because of the bones are a major factor. The reproduction one I wore has curved bones and the mass produced one I wore had very flat bones (like a tube). It's amazing how much it makes a difference.
The cut can also affect comfort. Some corsets are actually cut to give the torso an hourglass shape when it is done up. Others have less hip gore and a narrower cut around the bust. I cant wear hourglass because I get big gaps top and bottom. Straighter cuts fit really well. Some websites actually have seperate sections for different body shapes.
I love the fact that you incorporated all of the information about how clothing was designed for different body types without shame and the fact that you actually talked to someone who has a larger body and who has experience with how corsets fit on her vs someone who is her size but doesn't fit the same clothes. I'd love to wear all of these vintage or historical clothes, but all I come across is clothing for slim people rather than people who are larger like myself.
So, basically:
They’re clothes
lol yep
I think the whole body shaming modern clothing issue compared to Victorian sewing manuals is created by mass production. Your Victorian dressmaker HAD to cater to her clientele if she was going make an income, modern manufacturers don't bother. They use a standard defined body shape which is considered attractive to create the clothing and their attitude is that if you don't fit it then you are not attractive and you need to modify your body. I have actually worked for garment manufacturers and that attitude is very much there because of the risk in the industry. Clothing is made almost 6 to 10 months before it get to the store. The designer gambles that the fashion they made is the in fashion. 2020 showed how very wrong they can be if reality gets in the way.
Your body is fine. There is just no on the shelf clothing that you can afford and throw away after a year or two.
FAX!!
Great comment! CZcams isn't usually where I'd go for thoughtful analysis, but in Bernadette's btl comments, it's far more likely to be found. :)
Yes the body dysmorphia, eating disorders, body shame and unhappiness of so many women in the US is very largely caused by off-the-rack fashion
If I may add to your analysis, mass produced garments was part of a democratisation process that made clothing affordable to everyone. It was good for the masses but bad for people with bodies which didn't fit the mold. I mean, a majority of women in the 19th century couldn't afford having dresses custom made. They mainly had very plain clothes, inherited and altered or sewn by themselves or a family member.
@@huldaliljeblad3611 yes that too. But it came at a big price for the people, mostly women and children, who worked in those factories. Unlike the Victorian dressmaker they didn't get anywhere near a living wage. Unionization helped a bit but the salaries were still low. My mother worked in them in the 50s and early 60s when ever dad was on strike. And then they moved overseas to get lower costs and now I can buy a dress at just a little higher priced then I was paying in the 70s when I bought a new car for $2000
I like the shoe analogy. Many shoes have like 4-8 sets of laces to tighten or loosen from the toes to ankles, you have to adjust where that shoe fits best. They all don't have to pulled tight.
I will now be referring to the ease in my clothing as “snack room”.
This video is so informative while being absolutely beautiful! Thank you!
It seems to me that the theory behind corset wearing is like the theory behind wearing binders; be careful, be smart, work up to it and if it hurts, TAKE IT OFF!
Yes! There is a lot of overlap. I know someone who is working on a binder design based on stays.
@@khazermashkes2316 Is that person sharing any of their stay-binder adventures online? If so, would they mind you maybe sharing the link? (Or a google-able term, in case YT automatically marks links as spam...)
@@KarolaTea They are not posting it publicly, unfortunately
Ah, that is fair :) Please do wish them good luck for the project! And if they ever feel like sharing any of their insight I'd be muchly interested.
The box graphic was worth every minute of your work. It was perfection.
Thank you 🤩
@@bernadettebanner SO GLAD TO SEE YOU BACK💖 BERNI..💗😷🇬🇧💂🏻🇬🇧 Miss BUT ONLY TEA🍵🍵 AnDD😉 VICKY CORSET IS PERFECTION!!! ..LOL;)...Firm TACOS RULE😍
Yes, the little sad corset inside the box was the cutest thing in the whole video!
I thought what was said about tight fitting clothing and the average person in relation to corsetry to be very accurate. As a dancer, and generally tall person, I have worn tight clothing often throughout my life and find it quite comfortable because it is something I'm used to, thus when a corset-like bodice was part of our costuming for a show my fellow dancers and I thought nothing of it because if anything the support gave us less work to do, rather than more.
Personally i'm too broke to afford a good corset, but i have autism and adhd and cause of sensory stuff (as well as aesthetic) i've always cinched my waist in really tight with belts and scarves, which is probably not always good for me, but i do very much crave the feeling of being squeezed in by a corset, so thick belts have always been a must for me and will be until (and after) i can afford a proper corset. However when i was younger my school tried to make me sit still (before i was diagnosed) by putting me in an incredibly tight corset-squeezer thing which made it really difficult for me to breathe, and refused to let me take it off for the whole trial lesson, which i despised
I always feel strange watching these videos as a man who doesn’t wear corsets. I must say, however, my sister also suffers from severe scoliosis and has worn a similar brace throughout most of her life. I’m happy to see someone like her embracing such a interesting hobby with so much passion. Thank you for helping us smile
you shouldn’t feel strange! i don’t wear corsets either but historical fashion is really interesting to me, even if i don’t relate to most of it
Nothing wrong with learning new things~ :)
I am also watching as a non-corset-wearing man so you’re not alone!
I don’t wear em but I’d like to
You do you. This is fascinating and more complex than I had imagined. Why wouldn't you want to watch?
I love the fact that you give "ALL" the pros and cons of corset wearing (knowing that not one person knows it all). It was great having Noelle discuss making corsets for herself and "exact same measurement" friend that fit corsets differently. It keeps the mindset in front of people that everyone is different in composition and everyone's fit will be different. Thanks again for hitting the proverbial nail on the head
Thank you for being so open about your scoliosis. Also, I love how you talk about how corsets are like braces. Sharing your scoliosis story is inspiring for those of us who have been born with the same disease. I am now more inspired to make a corset that fits me better to wear under my dresses.
I bought a horrid little thing a while ago- a mass manufactured corset, and while I realize that it was rather dangerous for me to wear it (the spines were too thin and ended up snapping and stabbing me), I am grateful for the realization that corsets are very helpful for my CPTSD. Similarly to how weighted vests are put on dogs with fear disorders, mine also helped me stay calm too. I am thinking of investing in a more expensive, safer, and long-wearing corset.
Since lockdown 2020 I've learned so many historical sewing techniques that I try to use in my modern sewing and while it takes that bit longer it's worth it. I really don't think that mass manufacturers are concerned about how a fabric should move or how it will wear. It's more about how much can be produced with the least amount of cost and maximum profit.
Mass manufacturers don't care about materials either. They tend to go for the cheaper plastic fibre fabrics and that can really effect the outcome of what a peice of clothing is like on the person wearing it. It doesn't last nearly as long as natural fibres and it's also not as breathable as natural fibres in hot weather.
I’ve started using historical practices too and it makes my work look so much better! Bless Bernadette for teaching me all the things
@@artemis1357 They're also cheap about how they use the materials, getting every inch out of them even if the clothes suffer for it. I've had several items start to twist around my body after just one wash because the fabric is cut on a weird angle
unfortunately too true :(
We had this old lingerie shop in our town (sadly they are no longer in business😌). They used mass produced corsets as a base and customised them by exchanging the bones, altering seams and added padding. Those corsets did cost quite a lot, but they were worth it. I still have one of those customised corsets and I love it.
Ooh , I have 2 mass manufacture ones that were bought for costuming purposes and though I have worn one of them out and about for a whole day, getting into a car was problematic. Been wondering if I could replace the boning to get a better fit. This comment serves as excellent motivation, when I have time lol.
Genius!
Wish I had a place near me like this!
Am I the only one mesmerized by Bernadette's glow up? I love the slightly more edgy look! ❤️ It's still all that Bernadette realness, buy the subtle makeup and wardrobe changes looks amazing on her. Also supreme quality content as always!
I learned a lot of this speaking with the bodice-makers at my local Renaissance Faire when I first started looking at more adult styles instead of my wee!Rennie kids’ wear. I love hearing it summed up so neatly. The bodice-makers condensed it down to fashion corsets as this: “Breathing is overrated but still required. Always remember to put on your footwear first.”
Ive never understood the shoes first thing. I am 52 and can put on my shoes or boots(both lace-ups)in my corset.
I was so excited to see that you had Noelle feature in this to give a different size perspective. It’s so true as you say that the modern mass produced corsets just try to make us all I to a flat kind of tube shape. Us curvy girls definitely struggle with that, and seeing how flat the modern corset was on the table made me realise why I could never get comfortable in them. Time to save up and get the real deal.
I do think though that just shaping the bones would do wonders to the comfort of even a mass manufacture corset; it would require a bit of surgery, but removing one edge of the binding, bending the bones to fit the curves of your body and then reinserting them would help with the tubularness! It wouldn't be perfect as there are still constructional differences (grain, material, &c) but it would be a massive start I think!
@@bernadettebanner thank you! That’s a great idea.
@@HolisticLivingDownunder best way is to find someone who makes corsets to measures. Those are incredible!
@@bernadettebanner uh-oh... is that a sequel I see over the horizon 👀 👀 👀?
@@kostusia
Or preferably custom-made, with in-person fittings, because as Noelle said, two individuals who have the exact same measurements without a corset aren’t necessarily the same under the skin, and may need different corsets to look and feel their best.
I’m 55 years old and I’ve lived with slipped discs in my back for a number of years. Last year, I tried on a mass production corset. I wear it everyday now, under my clothes. It’s on all day while I’m at work. The relief it has provided in regards to my back pain is immeasurable. I would love to have a bespoke corset, but for now, this one has been a back saver!
Omg! My Grandma had disc problems too, for a good portion of her life. I remember going with her for a fitting. All of hers were made especially for her. I had forgotten about it, till I saw your post.
I found immediate comfort wearing a corset, and I don't have a diagnosis. But I can tell my spine curved significantly between age 50 and 60...
something that made me go deeper into historical fashion was that of "the illusion of the figure" those old techniques so that various body types, which work in different ways, have that ""beauty canon" as she said (sorry... I missed the lady's name) that a trick is "if you want to make your waist look smaller, you just have to make your shoulders look bigger"
You did a lovely job of addressing that fact that people are different diameters, are squishy in different places, and squish differently within a corset. Something that was not spoken about is differences in torso length. If a skirt or a jacket is too long they can usually be altered for a shorter body. But corsets can't be altered. And when making one from a pattern adjusting for a significantly longer or shorter torso is rather tricky. After trying multiple mock-ups and getting incredibly frustrated at my inability to make something that fit my body well it was a huge relief to find a corset maker who didn't balk at fitting someone over 6 feet tall. I have heard women around 5 feet tall complain of the same issue. If the corset is significantly the wrong length for the torso it is not only incredibly unflattering, but may very well cause issues with pressures being in the wrong places, as well.
I love the thoroughness and nuance! Bravo! 🎉 (Also I totally own a mass produced corset from my steampunk trash teen days)
My life is so much more improved knowing that teenage steempunktrash Hildegard von Blingin existed
Don’t we all? I recently gave mine to my teenage daughter. She was very appreciative.
Another Hildegard sighting!!!
I too have a few corsets from amazon, though I was (kinda still am) a full on goth. One of the ones sitting in the back of my closet literally had no shape whatsoever and most of the others were often too short, only put emphasis on the waist (created a very very sharp look and lots of indents on my skin), or were okay standing up and then murder weapons when I tried to sit down.
I do want to try and make my own though....
A good deal of historical corsets *WERE* mass manufactured. Those still seem to have been better than cheap modern ones because the historical ones had an actual physical purpose to fulfill and not just look nice.
Excellent conversation points! It's easy to buy into the "all corsets are evil" camp when all you've experienced were the tubular fashion corsets, but equally easy to get into the "corsets are great" camp when all you've experienced were well-fitting corsets.
The shoe analogy is particularly spot-on, and, I think, very illustrative and relatable to non-corset wearers. A well made high heel shoe will be more comfortable and provide better arch support than a cheap flat ballerina - but cheaply made, ill-fitting high heels usually are responsible for tainting the view of heels and even demonizing them to an extent.
Noelle's commentary on body properties, and your comment on the different tailoring options of the past also bring to mind the old "enemy": mass manufacturing of garments is responsible for bringing about The Singular Body Shape. Not having our clothes constructed to our body's specificities managed, in quite a short time, to make society believe that it's the body that must conform to the clothes, and not the other way around.
It has been shown many times that “the average person” (as well as “the average man” and “the average woman”) does not exist. Humans are just too varied for a “one size fits all” (or even a “one size fits most”) approach for anything that needs to conform to the body in multiple places at once. Even with a generous definition of “about average” it doesn’t take that many different measurements before the number of people who are “about average” in every way is zero.
Noelle's point about her friend having the same measurements but completely different squish factor, is possibly the most valuable point in this video. I am struggling with my stays fitting and am going to look into Bernadette's resources to track down a solution.
The shoe analogy had me immediately remember the video where Bernadette was helping to design a new American Duchess shoe and she mentioned how they construct the heel in a way to help balance the body /walking stance.
And it also depends on the person. Some people cannot bear heels, no matter how well made they are (feet issues, disabilities), and nobody should be forced to wear them, no matter how formal the occasion. Same goes for corsets.
I had a corset custom-made years ago - the one measurement that was NOT included (and should have been) was the body length... I am short-waisted, and when the [not cheap!] corset arrived, I found it impossible to wear because if it sat in my waist, it cut into my armpits, and if I wore it low enough not to cut into my armpits, it cut into my groin, making it impossible to sit down... You're very right in that not everyone squishes the same way!
Corseting has done wonders for my back pain! It's just as effective as wearing a medical brace for my spine issues, and it was actually my orthopedic surgeon who recommended I start wearing one. I love your stance on this. In my opinion corseting is neither evil nor completely harmless. It's not without it's potential risks.
As a super non-squishy woman I really appreciated that you addressed the importance of the "squish" factor!
Lol I like this
Yeah I'm super non squishy and already tubular shaped, I bought a mass manufactured corset hoping to give me some curves, but it just made my tubular shape slightly tighter. What a disappointment lol
@@rbguerreiro2466 lucky, you can buy one...
@@rbguerreiro2466 Me too lol!
@@rbguerreiro2466 odd offer, but ive seem some padded underwear and some pant types that can give more definition on amazon at least, an ex of mine while they were still transitioning (mtf) wore those with a corset and they did help a lot! they do look weird if just worn alone since you can see the butt/hip bumps but under another piece of clothing its quite smooth:) used to take them to wear a lot because the cushions felt nice LOL my butt hurt so much less
Like most things, it's not a matter of the whole of the thing being good or bad, but rather what an individual defines as good or bad for themselves. Now if only we could get over this pesky habit of trying to dictate the lives, needs, and preferences of other individuals based on our personal standards that probably are not applicable to THEM as individuals, maybe we could make some progress as a society.
Alas.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Very well said.
This would be a good thing at any level of human interaction.
Facts
Right like some people like to get tattoos which are painful to some people. We have the right to determine our level of comfort.
Extra love for including commentary directed toward the plus-sized community! "The more fleshy-sized person is actually the person who's going to get the most benefit out of a corset." !!!!!!!
“Not everyone squishes the same way” - my new favourite quote 🥰😂👌🏻
the tiktok trend "no one wants a waist over 9 inches" has really made my friends misunderstand what i like about corsets, i feel like it works against making people understand the nuance to corses in general :')
Honestly tiktok taking things from musicals is just annoying.
@@slytherclaw9159 the whole concept of taking a few second clip from anything and spreading it massively is both very easy to digest and incredibly easy to misunderstand therefore expanding upon it in a different direction with less care
Right? And the line isn't even "nine inches," it's "nein inches," as in, it's a bilingual pun making fun of tightlacing that is only understood within the context of the song as being 1.) German-accented, 2.) about 14th century highborn ladies looking to score a good husband, and 3.) under the metatext of a modern fashion house
Especially considering Henry VIII pretty much accused Holbein of photoshopping/using a filter on Anne’s portrait.
@@adamuffoletto7869 oh I didn't know that. It makes a little more sense now.
I hope you do a part in the series about corsets for pregnant women back in era. Truly curious if they wore corsets or other counterparts of what maternity wear would be like.
This needs an up vote 👍🏻
They actually did wear corsets while pregnant. The lower half of the laced corset was just loosened to accompany the ever growing bump. This was most down with front laced corsets and stays since there was little to no boning on top of the belly as it grew.
Fun little fact I got from another 18th century fan
Specific pregnancy corsets were definitely a thing in the late Victorian era and later. My grandmother actually wrore a pregnancy corset in the 50s to help with hip/support issues, even though she never wore corsets when not pregnant.
Never gave this a thought but this is such a cool idea to explore.
This!!! This is what my question is. And breastfeeding.
Since I started watching your channel I've definitely started feeling better about my own body and am getting ideas for how I can dress my flesh vessel in a way that makes it more appealing to me. The lightning bolt of epiphany when I realized that clothes can be layered to change a body's appearance... Maybe I'm late to the party on that one, but at least I'm here now!
As an artist, as well as someone who really loves to learn, I’ve been thoroughly enjoying these type of educational videos. Corsets have been really interesting to me the past few weeks, and I really enjoyed the shoe metaphor. Which I guess is ironic, considering I have weirdly shaped feet and therefor have to wear very specifically shaped shoes. I don’t know where I was going with this, but I guess I’m saying that I think this stuff is super cool.
There is a myth that corsets make it difficult to breathe. I have a rather top-heavy figure. For support reasons I have to use a bra where the band is so tight, it definitely interferes with my breathing. As a result, I am seriously researching a corset for everyday use.
The bra stan would say you need a looser band in a different shape (retro-style "Doreen" bras, for example). Of course, buying specialty bras or corsets are both extremely annoying, so you lose either way :(
I'm not sure if the underband of a bra (usually a wide strip of elastic) is ever properly designed for support. Certainly not for the larger cup sizes. Aaand I'm not talking your piffling double D here, either. Against a pair of lead-filled grapefruit, the average bit of wide elastic stands no chance at all.
As a giant boob haver, I gotta say longline bras changed my life! So much more support than your average bra and definitely worth the money... online stores that specialize in larger bras have tons of options :)
I reccomend this course of action as a fellow top-heavy figure- I found a reasonably-priced/reasonably-boned corset last july that I've worn exclusively instead of a bra since. It fit nicely and didn't give band chafing nor strap ache, so if you decide to go the purchasing route, look for those things.
I am at the tail end of handsewing a corset out of Jill Salen's 'Corsets', and so far in fittings the repro corset is working quite well for this endeavour, though it's taken at least 50 hours of sewing to get this far. So, pro: exact fit/materials you want + creator's pride, con: just as expensive or more than a mass-manufactured corset, and sewing takes time
I also struggle not just with having a top-heavy figure, but also with having several chronic conditions (including scoliosis) that cause a lot of pain and weakness in my back. The weight of my breasts definitely don’t help with that issue.
Anyway, I’ve been strongly considering a custom corset in hopes that it helps with both the support of my breasts and the pain and weakness in my back. I frequently go about my day and as the pain builds, I feel like my spine is going to collapse like a cartoon accordion. Like I just can’t remain upright for another moment.
When that happens (which is often) I find myself wishing I had something to help hold my back up. I can’t help but think that a corset would help.
The whole shoe metaphor about corsetry to me as a dancer. This is quite niched but in the world of pointe shoes there are quite a lot of different fits, styles, softnesses (etc), and you have to find the one that fits your foot for safety and comfort (actually that one is debatable, but the point stands).
Me, a climber and former ballet dancer, buying (beginners) climbing shoes:
Shop assistant: "They have to be tight, like, really tight. Uncomfortably tight!"
Me: "So I used to dance en pointe..."
Shop assistant: "Ok, less tight. Erm, medium tight?"
Haha, the *point(e)* stands! Not sure if you intended a pun there, but I appreciate it still!
Gaynor for life! I danced for 10+ years and developed a pain in my feet (idk how to explain, but it's for too much forcing on pointe shoes) and gaynor minden never failed me to be less painful!
Exactly! I went through two or three shoe brands trying to find the right pointe shoes, and the wild thing is, my left foot is a half-size bigger than my right, which meant I had to buy two different pairs of pointe shoe once I found the shoe that was just right for me. (Which was helpful in the long run 'cause it meant I didn't have to buy shoes as often XD) Of course, once I did find the perfect shoe, I never switched since they fit my feet, lasted a while, and were the most comfortable ones I'd worn!
I love the shoe comparison. It also makes me think of bras. Not all styles of bras (or even brands of bras) will fit people how "they should". There are different types, styles, and sizes just like there are different types, styles, and sizes of shoes (and, of course, corsets).
I have a set of scanned sewing guides from the early 1920s and there are no measurements just algebra.
Also as a person with E tibbys they really help with my hella back pain (not helped by my hEDS)
I worked at a historic house museum several years ago, and we dressed in period clothing for some events.(1869-1892)
Inevitably I'd get someone who asked how I could wear a corset all day and not pass out. Even though I didn't wear a reproduction corset then; (because unfortunately we had to supply some of our own pieces for the period attire and they did NOT pay me enough to get a corset made) I had to explain how corsets were not *typically* the horrible steel monsters that Hollywood had made us believe. The reactions I got from people were a mix of surprise, bewilderment, and downright anger. The latter because they couldn't possibly be wrong, corsets must be evil since they read it in a book once. 🤦🏻♀️
I really REALLY want to buy/make a custom corset for everyday(ish) wear. I have a body shape that off the rack corsets just aren't made for. I'm hoping Redthreaded can help me out once they start taking orders again.
I made one from a pattern I found online that I drew onto the backside of some wrapping paper with 1 inch squares on it. it’s really a nice corset, and it gives me exactly what I was looking for (1909-1919ish) in terms of silhouette :)) first I put a mockup together with tiny scraps of satin I had lying around then I made it a little smaller in a stiffer fabric. overall, it cost me ~$20 to make, and it would probably take 2-3 weeks of work depending on how much time you have (it took me 2 months but I think I only worked for about 7 days💀)
@@stephh1149 Back when I was dressing up in Victorian attire was before the internet was what it is now lol.
Considering the serious fit issues I have I'm not confident enough to make a corset myself, until I see how a professional would deal with it.
As someone who wears big spiked platforms and corsets I vibed with this
I always just thought of corsets as a tool of patriarchy, but this video absolutely changed my mind! I'm so fascinated and blown away by your expertise!!! Thank you!!!
You may also be interested to know that men wore corsets at certain points in history as well, such as the regency era.
I went from buying a random corset on Amazon for a cosplay to discovering a passion for historical fashion and costuming, to finding this Chanel and in depth videos to make proper corsets at home and the difference is insane. I don’t have the skills to call myself and expert clothes maker, but just having a corset with proper support that fits my measurements has made a significant difference I didn’t realise made corsets wearable.
"I'm not going to not have snack room in my corsets" - instant fan of Noelle
If is doesn’t have snack room, it can only be a fashion corset, intended to be worn for short periods of time. A functional corset that you can wear all day must have room for dinner.
@@ragnkja A practical truth that is!
My dressmaker insisted I wear a long-line bra, which is not unlike a corset, but less adjustable, under my wedding gown. I did not like the thing, it was always awkward and uncomfortable. Now I'm most of the way through making a set of 18th-century stays, I've tried them on, and other than a couple fit tweaks that need to be done, they were actually comfortable. Makes a difference.
"[...] there's no way I am not gonna have snack room in my corsets"
words to live by
The production quality of this video is so professional! It's like watching a documentary instead of a CZcams video. Bravo, Bernadette!
“I like tacos. There’s no way I’m not going to have snack room in my corset.” I relate to this on a very personal level 🙌🙌
A fashion corset may get away with not having snack room, but a functional one has to have enough space for dinner.
yeah that was a major turnoff with a toxic pro-corset video-if an already thin woman can’t eat all of her already small portion and has how she can move and breathe dictated-with it NOT too tight? Apparently?
But, that aside (assuming it was the style and her not leaving enough room for her digestive and breathing muscles to function fully)...I’m still gonna Hard Pass with corsets. My skin literally breaks out from layers in winter and sweat in summer and just flatout wearing a shirt period. (And, too many layers make me overheat and hello migraines...)
Which, if they work for other women, fantastic. Just doesn’t seem like it’ll ever be something For Me without a specialized wardrobe (the shape does show under clothes actually), in a much colder-in-summer climate, and with every layer being breathable.
What your saying about corsets in some ways really mirrors what I've seen with modern men's suits. People today will buy a mass manufactured suit and find it constrictive and uncomfortable, and wonder why anyone would want to wear one, not knowing that a well made suit is very comfortable.
As a cosplayer it's looks over comfort a lot of the time but I'm willing to be uncomfortable for an hour long photoshoot. This was a great video discussing many different povs of the topic! We have been learning about context at school which I feel like people often forget about on the internet.
I’ve been watching this channel for maybe 6 years and it’s probably why I’m obsessed with historical fashion, and I finally got a corset! It doesn’t quite fit me, but it’s sort of a try out. Much more comfortable than a bra.
I did a project studying corsets' place in collective memory, and as a starting point for that I sent out a questionnaire to other people at my college trying to gauge their knowledge and impressions of corsets. One thing I asked was what words came to mind when they thought of corsets, and one responder said "stifling, empowering (modern), uncomfortable, attractive, a construct." Corsets are indeed literal and metaphorical constructs, but that stifling/empowering thing had me spiraling into "whaaa" on the double standard of women now=smart and empowered, women then=sheltered and weak. Like..? I get why wearing a corset openly can be a statement but the issue is so nuanced and the conclusion is so flat it was baffling.
On the other hand it gave me the delightful zeugma and syllepsis, "Corsets shape bodies and the cultural understandings of gender."
I'm happy that you made this video because people will argue until they're blue in the face that modern corsets are the most awful things on the planet and historical garments are all perfect. I'm SO GLAD you made a point to say that there is and was always good AND bad.
For my college western civilization class I chose todo a project on clothing styles through the 1800s to 1919. I have a specific talking point of corsetry and this video has given me some information that might help me to inform my classmates about the reality of historical corsetry.
I use corset story's corsets, i find them very comfortable and i've recommended them to people a lot. my mom is starting to wear their corsets too, which are spiral steel boning, the thickness and stiffness of which vary depending on the type of corset you go for, i wear the lighter mesh type for under my work clothes and they've helped my back a lot via improving my posture and because i wear them alot(almost everyday) they've also helped me to loose weight which has helped my knees too.
for some added info, i'm 5' 8", 154 lbs and have a lot of harder 'muscle weight' like your friend Noelle described but it's mostly centered around my shoulders and hips, meaning i get a classic hourglass when wearing my corset, other peoples results may very.
You summarized our whole world, I guess.
If you do it historically, do it 100% correct.
If you do it modern, no history, please.
If people could understand that having those two together is not witchcraft... that would be great.
You know very well I will now be referring to myself as 'squishy' instead of 'not thin'
I prefer "fluffy," but I totally hear you!
My girl out here arguing for NUANCEEEE, we love to see it
Cat and Raven Designs made you a soap! It's a 'Bernadette Banner inspired' soap, and it's inspired by your shoes. They do soaps based on their favorite CZcamsrs. You'll want to reach out to them and see how they can ship it to you. :)
"Not a roast on mass manufacturing"
Self restraint go girl
Edit: this probably came of as mean read my comments left below for my true thoughts but funny youtube comment go burrrrrr
@@arit8009 ehh if we talk about bust sizes modern lingerie has a LOT of issues
@@arit8009 well I was just making fun of the fact she always seems to have a gripe around "cheap" clothing high quality $100+ clothing have never been in my (or my parents I'm 15) budget so it gets slightly annoying hearing it so often especially since I love this channel so much.
But yes 200+ clothing and corset will never work for everyone and it's not something she tends to address when she rants about mass manufacturing sometimes its nice to address a problem and also give a workable solution
(Also depending on the clothing some items will cost more so corsets are one of the things I will concede to costing more but still 200+ is still to much)
@@callumfootitt5366 Nah, the reason she’s a lil bit blind to how pricey ‘good’ clothing is, is cause she makes it herself. If you can sew, life gets significantly easier ; )
not that I am capable of sewing myself, I’m absolutely incapable
@@comradewindowsill4253 no I'm shure she mentioned financial situations in one of her videos but I dont recall her offering a solution or taking that conversation anywhere else she kinda just said it and moved on (could have been worse I guess)
Edit: I dont want this to be seen as bashing her just a reminder that no one can truly see the full picture and make a perfect argument if she can make good clothes that last and give tips that's better than most
@@arit8009 Yeah, sorry for not going into more detail, what I meant was mostly that for Bernadette it’s a ‘cheaper’ solution because she can account for the quality herself, and be sure that it’ll last for a good while
Stopping halfway through to comment about fit and "not everyone squishes the same way"
I'm a big girl. I start at the largest size and work my way down at corset booths (conventions and faires).
Every time a either had taken their measuring tape and used my waist measurement to hand me a corset size, taking me out will have 4-5 inches in the back when laced up. It closes fully. I have to drop at least two sizes.
I am a big girl. With squish that wants me to be an hourglass shape. I look damned fine in my corsets because my body is more or less that shape under all the extra fluff.
Not everyone is good lucky, but I am and I will rock to looks. =3
Thank you for the words of encouragement
this was such a motivation boost for me. been going through a bit of a rough patch and haven't done any sewing for about a month and half (vs beforehand when i was sewing 2 things basically every month), and after watching this video i had so much motivation to work on the 1860s corset reconstruction project i've been wanting to do for years!!
As a rather short-waisted and curvy person I doubt I’d find a mass-manufactured corset that fits me, but that doesn’t stop me from wanting a (well-fitting!) corset.
Orchard corset oc 201. It's their waspie. Great for short waisted people. They also have another waspie, 301 I think but I don't have any experience with that one.
Same especially as I have a fairly large bust
@@lorileemathews6468
I don’t want a waspie, so not very helpful. I want an everyday corset that would be appropriate to wear under my folk costume, whose cut is based on a wedding dress from rural northern Norway in the 1840s or possibly 1850s.
@@ragnkja Wow, your folk costume sounds fascinating! I'm immensely intrigued.
I don't know if you are interested in suggestions, but if you are open to off the rack modern corsets I would check out Mystic City Corsetry. They have a wide variety of different patterns and cuts to suit a variety of measurements, and are quite inexpensive for the quality. Timeless Trends or Isabella Corsetry might also fall into this category, but they have a smaller selection.
If you have a larger budget and want historical accuracy, definitely check out RedThreaded, their corsets and stays are gorgeous.
I’d also agree with the Mystic City Corsets suggestion. I’ve bought one of their four-pin corsets, the MCC-21, and it fits me just like a normal underbust ought to on a “normal torso” sized human without the awful tube squish nastiness. For anything overbust ... I think the main solution is to cry until you can afford custom. (But oh how we can dream)
I have a memory of reading somewhere, ages ago (really couldn't tell you where) that as corsets disappeared in fashion, what happened is that women were meant to "internalize" the corset, ie present a similar figure but instead of a garment trimming your waist in, it was your nice toned abs. And after a morning workout with one too many planks I gotta say I kinda wish we had kept the corset external 😄
I've definitely seen this!
Women are still expected to have the figure, but we are shamed for doing the things that make us fit that.
And that was sold to us as liberation.
@@VicvicW exactly. The 'what' didn't change, just the 'how'.
Forget doing those for your shape. Do it for the back you will have in 15-20 years. Your future self will love you for it.
@@bknesheim Yes!
@@carolinavenger so change the "what" instead of bending to the whims of society. And exercise for your health. Stop putting "being pleasant in society's eyes" as your goal for exercise, diet and garments.
I’m starting out in high school tech theater, and I’m really hoping to be like one of the seniors that graduated last year. She was our core costumer. Our school doesn’t assign permanent roles and everybody tries everything during class (we are assigned to ons of our strong suits for all plays and something new for all musicals), but this girl was so good at costuming that she was basically always chosen to be the costume “lead” (what we call the head(s) of the department). In fact, after she left three people had to take her role for the play and four for our musical. This channels has been really helpful for me in that process!
Alok Menon said something on their instagram a year or two ago about how things change when you view clothing as an extention of the body rather than separate. Thought about that when you were talking about the expectation that fulfilling the fashionable silhouette could be done with fabric rather than flesh.
Already at the first thirty seconds: THANK YOU!! Lately I have been equally annoyed with "corsets are perfect, great and there's absolutely no flaws in any form of any type historic clothing, modern clothes are evil" enthusiasts as I have been with "corsets are evil" folks in past.
I think it’s a strong reaction to how historical clothing are perceived in general, people naturally get pretty defensive, so I’m glad to see the discourse become more nuanced.
15:15 the sassy close ups of tea whilst dunking on fast fashion corsets 😏
Really, really appreciate the multiple axes of NUANCE in this video! Such a refreshing change from many of the discussions around both modern and historical support garments....
Thank you for addressing the body type. I'm an M-cup and corsets have been suggested for support, but finding something that fits is not something that come off the shelf, but people assume it can.