Timing the sunset to calculate where space begins
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2024
- I put a 1,000 year old theory to the test. Thanks to Nebula for supporting this video: go.nebula.tv/simonclark
Buy my book on the history of atmospheric science, Firmament: geni.us/firmament
You can support the channel by becoming a patron at / simonoxfphys
My video on where the atmosphere stops: • Where does the atmosph...
According to a scholar living 1,000 years ago in Andalusia, by taking two simple measurements of Twilight and applying some trigonometry you can estimate the height of the atmosphere. In this video I test out the theory, and come up with a height for where space begins.
REFERENCES
This video was inspired by this paper: B. Goldstein, ‘Ibn Muʿādh’s Treatise on Twilight and the Height of the Atmosphere’, Archive for History of Exact Sciences, vol. 17, no. 2 (1977), pp. 97-118.
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More about me www.simonoxfphys.com/
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Music by Epidemic Sound: nebula.tv/epidemic
Some stock footage courtesy of Getty.
Edited by Luke Negus.
Where does space begin? How did ancient people know about space? What is Twilight? How can you use twilight to estimate the height of the atmosphere? Is all atmospheric science western? In this science experiment video I answer these questions and more.
Huge thanks to my supporters on Patreon: Piet Braat, Artem, Sylvus , Florian Thie, Daniel Chen, Gary Stark, Martina Alini, Vernon Swanepoel, Adam Scott, Felix Winkler, CC, Ivari Tölp, Thomas Charbonnel, Mark Moore, Philipp Legner, Zoey O'Neill, Heijde, Paul H and Linda L, Marcus Bosshard, Dan Sherman, Matthew Powell, Adrian Sand, Dan Nelson, The Cairene on Caffeine, Cody VanZandt, Igor Francetic, Daniel Irwin, bitreign33 , Thusto , Andy Hartley, Lachlan Woods, Dan Hanvey, Andrea De Mezzo.
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"Professional wrong opinion-haver Aristotle" took me right out
That's the heart of philosophy.
I truly cannot think of a better descriptor for Aristotle lol
His ideas about “points of locomotion” (Google it!) are truly fascinating… not only are they are wrong, but they are wrong in such an eccentric way :)
Also, women apparently have fewer teeth than men - according to Aristotle. He didn’t believe that insects had 4 legs… he was referring to a species that really only had 4 (and 2 that didn’t look like legs).
I love Aristotle so much. Everything he said makes logical sense, especially when you don't have the technology to prove otherwise. But it's all wrong.
I just watched your 'I Don't Think I Can Do This Anymore' video, Simon. I checked and found that despite being subscribed to you for at least a year, you had released two videos I hadn't noticed in recent weeks. So here I am, watching and enjoying.
Likewise! Now also commenting to up engagement, if that a thing the algorithm deity takes into account...
I will third this statement. I may be one person, but there are evidently more like me who were simply never recommended these videos we want to see.
Same here !
And here 😊
Yeah same here!!
It is quite the flex to use your own book as a ruler
Immediately rendered moot by using _Twilight_…
What we learned about Simon in this episode:
- He probably lives in or near Bath
- He likes Metallica
- He's got a copy of Twilight
I've also got to give props for the sponsor intro, couldn't tell if it's going to be Brilliant or Nebula. And the video was Interesting as usual, keep it up, Simon! 👍
And the fact that even a doctor needs to say "SOH CAH TOA" out loud
I came here after realizing that CZcams has not been sending me notifications. This is another great video. It is so sad to see how an algorithm is punishing high quality channels, some to extinction, in favor of short cat videos.
The sheer subtlety of the ruler at pi minutes is **chef kiss**
And a Metallica reference on top? Good sir you are a national treasure
"pi minutes" oooh mmy
I also appreciate that proof of the geocentric flat earth model.
But pi in base 10 is 3-08.496 in minutes and seconds.
@reidflemingworldstoughestm1394 meh, for engineering purposes '3 and a bit' usually suffices
The number of little easter egg gags in this video is nuts! Simon, you've outdone yourself
5:45 Let's put it like this, the method becomes a bit less precise when done in cold weather!
Presumably less of a problem for the original experiment in Spain!
@@SimonClark ah, especially if he did it in Summer (was it on the Meseta or in Granada)?
@@hglundahl But, in the Summer, if you are far North enough, the twilight never end. ANYWHERE if the UK, from May to July, there is no true night. Same here in Québec.
Wait, I think this is false, I could be wrong.
In Malmö, same latitude as Gretna / Newcastle, or a bit further North, there is 4 hours night in Summer. True, somehow a Summer Night is kind of twilightish ...
Probably best to do it at equinox, if you get that far north.
I know this is not meant to be a accurate measurement, but it would make sense that you account for the fact that the sun is not moving perpendicular to the horizon. The 19.5 degree you calculate is the great circle distance the sun travels. It is not however how many degrees it is below horizon, which is the angle that actually controls which part of the atmosphere is illuminated.
OK, this video was WAY cooler than I expected! I didn’t click on it the first time, because the title and thumbnail didn’t draw me in, but after your recent video about doing things differently, I clicked on it from the end of that video, and I’m glad I did! I learned something new and interesting! And it was entertaining!
This is a really fun exercise. I think it would be good to teach it to schoolkids because it is simple enough to do and understand. Also, I have to compliment your introduction to Nebula - the sponsor. That was a clever transition.
Yes, that was one smooth segway.
This must have taken literally hours to do since you had to wait for the sunset! We in the audience always undervalue how much work goes into these videos!
The dayman and nightman on the monitor is brilliant around 3:30
Thank you for keeping in you doing S(O/H) C(A/H) T(O/A) in your head from a STEM student that still has to do silly trick to remember trig identities. Great Video also, very interesting!
This is such a simple and elegant experiment and I love that you did it. Great video, as usual, Simon!
Taaaaake myy hand, we're off to never never land
I like this stuff. I once did a blog post titled "How far apart are the sunset points at solstices by angle around the horizon at my latitude?" kicked off by noticing the sunset direction moving as Autumn progressed and wondering. The answer was 49.3 degrees.
Where do I live? (Clue: - Not Spain)
Simon, if you are seeing this, this video is one of your best in terms of the presentation method. It doesn't feel too long or drawn out unlike some of your other videos. You nailed the concise presentation and it feels engaging. I don't know if yt will bless your videos with more views, all i know is that you're on the right path.
Well according to those who were(n't) paying attention in school what you do is keep going in any direction till you come to the ice wall then climb over said wall and bingo you're in space....(unless you think there is a magic dome above you as well in which case bring a hammer and be prepared for a lot of blow back from your fellow inhabitants....)
Think of how much money someone could get by going to the ice wall and chipping off pieces of the dome and then selling them online!
I do the same thing when having to work with trig equations---I first mutter the correct formula to myself, and then rearrange if needed. :)
I have core memories from maths class. SUCK A TOE A, Some Old Hag cracked all her teeth on apple. Some Old Hippy Caught Another Hippy Tripping On Acid.
I think 3 years into an engineering degree i've just memoriesed them as little triangles. with the numerator on top of each. but I sure do miss the days when equation triangles were a totally valid way of remembering equations! too many variables these days :')
Great video!
I think it's incredible how close even the original estimate was considering the additional uncertainty of the radius of the earth etc.
Sir, Gavin Schmidt of the NASA Goddard Institute is saying to Neil DeGrasse that their models did not expect such uptick in temperatures and that they might have underestimated aerosol effect.
I really liked this new style of video format and presentation, although I imagine it was a lot more work, but despite having watched your channel for years I often find it difficult to get through your videos as I lose interest or the thumbnail isn't very engaging but this was superb and fun and just excellent, would like to see more like this!
I absolutely loved everything about this video. The patron constellations were fabulous! Thank you Simon for another wonderful watch :)
Exit light enter night 🎸😊
Great video, Simon! It is very engaging and clear. Loved it so much. You are a very good science communicator.
8:47 Yeah, twilights do last longer the further North you get on the Northern hemisphere, dito four Southern, the further South.
The sandman reference was nice, dry delivery, perfect
Your videos are always fun to watch!
4:56 Thanks Bob!
Simon, one of your best videos! Given the existence of the modern flat earth movement and the young earth creationists, one wonders if science has progressed at all. But then we are reminded that the diameter of the earth was calculated more than two thousand years ago and the height of the atmosphere, a thousand years ago. All without laptops, iPhones or any technology at all.
If we could all just park our technology, observe our surroundings, and reflect on what we see, we will discover the marvels of the universe. Thank you!
Thanks for sparking my scientific curiosity - love your videos!
Love your channel! Keep up the great work. #Hyped
Great video, I don’t often encounter new-to-me methods such as this. And the patron star field earned a legit LOL. Nice work, thanks.
Wonderful video. I am going to share this with my son, he will like it too! I really appreciate your approach and the interesting topics you discuss. Thank you!
Love the product placement 😃
Another really interesting and top notch video :-)
Really fascinating video. I must admit that when you got into the maths my brain slipped into rhubarb, rhubarb, rhubarb ... 93 km! And gotta love the subtlety of the book plug!
Love the style of this video
The way your love for science comes through in this visual story > Twilight.
Truly a better love story than Twilight
3:11, perfect product placement. Well done😀
"Professional wrong opinion-haver Aristotle" caught me of guard.
absolutely amazed 🤯
I really enjoy your educational content. To me, your content pushes through the noise of the environmental ‘grief’ that hinders people from being an active participant in understanding the subject. Your videos is exactly what I needed to get a non- biased source of information on the topic of climate change and the broad spectrum of knowledge on the subject. You are more important than you realise. For me at least, you are fundamental to my intellectual growth on Earth/Space science. This is the beauty of CZcams and Nebula, never before could the average-joe get this breadth of passionate education.
the segues in this video are seamless in a very satisfactory way
How the actual hell is this not getting pushed by yt this video is hysterical
I mean the US military gave pilot wings to anyone who flew over 50 miles, him getting 52 miles is impressively good
I really enjoy “making” sunsets on Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 - it’s a game with a misleading name, since it’s an earth simulator that just happens to have a physics model for aircraft built in
Another fantastic video 🔥 keep my engagement flowing
Great video
Yay! Fun Simon is back!
Great video, us usual :)
I'm so sorry that you had to finnish Twilight, Simon. Your heroism and comitment knows no bounds! 🤣
This is a great video
It's a shame that the topic/thumbnail/title doesn't bring in the views
I really enjoy getting a look into the history of our understanding of climate.
Nice video, Simon. The audio is a bit off, sounds like there is a new source of reverb in your room?
cool and interesting!
I actually came here from your 'I can't do this any more' video... this is actually a pretty interesting topic, shame it wasn't recommended.
Need to get your book for my dad. He's a pilot and an aerospace engineer, I think he'd find it interesting!
damn watched your video after a very long time
thanks
Does it count as a signed copy if it's got -Sharpie- _own-brand_ _marker_ smudges up the spine and covers?
"I'm gonna call this the end of Twilight"
Oh I see what you did there!
omg i loved this video wth
Everyone else is commenting it too but DAMN the Aristotle gag is an all time quote
What is that you're using as a straightedge?
Why that would be Firmament, a history of and introduction to atmospheric physics, perfect reading material for a student or curious adult!
This was super fun! Accessible to my 11 year old
I laughed at the SOH CAH TOA pause.
0:50 for the nerds out there, this is apparently where the concept of the "phlogiston" in Spelljammer comes from - the idea that all the elemental fire on earth "evapourates" and rises up past the atmosphere, and thus collects in outer space; and thus instantly ignites if you so much as look at it wrong xD
Phlogiston was how they explained flammability - if something could burn, it contained phlogiston, and the flames were the phlogiston escaping. That combining things with atmospheric oxygen made them more massive was handily explained by phlogiston having a negative mass, which is also why it flows upwards towards the Sphere of Fire.
The precision of timekeeping also affects the precision of the result: I wonder what method of timekeeping was used in antiquity as the sundial has a very specific downside for use in this experiment ;)
2:47 Intellectually, I _know_ that the sun sets earlier as you go north, but it always shocks me _how much_ earlier.
The actual height of the Karman line ois about 84 Km, and, yes, it had been rounded up to a nice 100Km.
Bringing up the fact that Jeff Bezos' rocket looks like a willie (again), describing Aristotle as a "Professional wrong opinion-haver" and trying to break our misconceptions about how "tidy" the history of science is... yeah, I think this is going to be good.
Where can I buy that ruler for drawing crisp straight lines?
How would latitude influence this answer?
I caught that sneaky Enter Sandman lyric 😆
The ancients used the stars as part of their evening's entertainment. :) It must have inspired some science as well as some bizarre stories that were mostly myth.
Also find it hilarious that the exaggeration of the atmosphere is noted, but not the size of the sun, the distance from earth, or the fact that Simon has the power to move the constellations to spell out the names of his supporters xD
Edit: though this also makes me curious as to when exactly people knew/suspected that the earth's axis was tilted, because I imagine having seasonally longer days/nights would also throw a wrench into this calculation.
I don't know what you mean, due to a Pratchett level coincidence my patrons names are absolutely spelled out in the night sky
It's not like the stars come with little numbers next to each of them to make a cosmic dot-to-dot; the constellations can be whatever
People since ancient times figured out the path of the sun in the sky (the ecliptic) was not in the same plane as the equator. They could measure the angle between them (the inclination) by comparing the length of shadows at noon throughout the year. The difference between the shortest and longest shadow would determine the angle; this was first interpreted as a tilt of the earth's axis by Copernicus.
10:13 How do you verify that a new star actually _has_ been made?
That nebula segue lol
4:19 _„Eggs and light, end all nights“_ 😂 famous Metallica quote
Does refraction no longer take place?
I'm shocked i didn't see this despite being subbed.
2:57 the reason this video was made in the winter, so you didn't have to wait until evening for the sun to set.
"professional wrong opinion haver" 😂
“Professional wrong opinion haver” I’m dead and I’m not even a minute in
"Exit light, enter night" ... are you a Metallica fan per chance...? :-)
I knew this comment had to be here.
@@AB-fh9zh Those lyrics are burned into my memory after listening to it over and over again (30 years ago!)
nice
I wonder what people are going to know about Simon Clark a millennium from now. He could be the next Ibn Mu'adh.
soo is the aurora a matter for astrophysicists or atmosphere scientists?
Aurora's are caused by the interaction of charged particles (electrons, mainly) from the solar wind, Earth's magnetic field and gas molecules in the top of Earth's atmosphere.
So the answer is both.
@@jsoderba i can't believe they're not fighting to determine whom auroras belong to
Your Patreons will have to save up to buy you a ruler so you don't have to use your book next time!
And at the equator that 78minutes is about 5...
I hate the yt algorithm. It should have shown this to me.
But how do you know the radius of the Earth (as someone in the Islamic Golden Age)?
In fairness, there were accurate estimates from this time and before, but there were also inaccurate ones, and it was hard to tell which was which.
me observing It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, top hat
Cool
Like this comment if you are here after Simon's latest video about the sustainability of his channel. Let's show him our support!
Error analysis missing - results unclear - conclusions not so much
Still a fun little experiment
It turns out 100 kilometers isn't a round number at all -- it's 62.1 miles. A truly round number would be 60 or 100 miles.
I'd say a truly round number would be _perfectly_ divisible by Pi or Tau.
lmao for using your book as a ruler!