Which style of guard do you play? The pros and cons (Lachlan Giles)
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2021
- There are many styles of guard to play, each can be effective, yet it is common for people to struggle from guard as their guard lacks congruency. Here Lachlan outlines the general styles of guard play and the pros and cons of each.
This is taken from his No Gi Open Guard instructional, that focuses on outside position guards and leg entanglements, see more through the link below.
bjjfanatics.com/products/no-g...
Inside = Gordon Ryan
Half = Craig Jones
Outside = Lachlan
Bingo!
Nailed it.
Bought Lachlans k guard instructional couple months ago. Deadset best purchase I've ever made. Getting more subs in a session than I was in a whole week last month. K guard > backside 5050 > take the back . My game has improved 10 fold, do yourself a favour and invest.
Alright mate, what belt are you/what was your favorite guard before you focused on k guard?
Submeta gives you even more bang for your buck 😍
Wow. This is the video I should and wish I had seen when first starting out
Things have changed so much over the past couple of decades. It used to be that you were EITHER a Closed Guard, Half Guard, Butterfly Guard or Open Guard player. These days passing is way more sophisticated and people are not just kneeling and climbing into your Closed, Half or Butterfly game anymore.
As a result, Open Guard is where you'll spend like 80% of your time now, and everyone needs a technical Open Guard game. Hence why the new-school guys are breaking things down in terms of Outside / Inside / Half rather than Closed / Open / Half / Butterfly.
@@thos1618 Man great explanation - thank you.
Really? Would this have really helped you as even a 1 year or less white belt?
I don't know if new guys even understand the fundamental positions that Lachlan is laying out here to really grasp what he's getting after.
Yeah, I think a new guy can understand his main point that certain families of guards tend to go together well -- but how many newish guys know DLR or RDLR or all the X variations or almost any of the leg entanglements at all much less well enough to start creating a structure in their mind as Lachlan explains?
Personally, I nerded out hard when I first started so I knew what most of these positions were, but had virtually no idea how to choose to get into them much less how to transition between them or even something as simple as the responses for the most common responses from the partner. At 6 months to 1 year of BJJ I could show you what DLR and X and Ashi should look like in static but I wouldn't have been able to purposefully end up there in a competitive roll. And when accidentally ending up there, I had no understanding of what my combos and if/then chains were like I did have for closed, half, some old school collar sleeve type open guards and a bit of butterfly.
Maybe I'm just slower on the uptake than the average student but I personally don't think new guys could get much out of this video other than "eventually you will learn a bunch of these guards and some of them pair much better with each other than others and here is a structure for how you might group these guards mentally".
@@thos1618 excellent thought. Can you suggest a good series for a white belt beginner? Has been thinking about buying the one featured in the video. Is this one still legit or theres better ones nowadays that you are aware of?
@@pavellima5755 I haven't watched them myself, but if I could send a package of DVD's through a time machine to my younger self, it would probably be Danaher's 'Go-Further-Faster' series for beginners.
Different strokes for different folks though.
this video is really eye opening. I have 2 questions:
1.
Are there certain sweeps that work better with certain guards:
Like the Sumi Gaeshi / Hiza Garuma works better with inside guards Or the flower sweep and tomo nage could work better from outside guards? Etc.
And if so, what other sweeps would fall into these categories?
2. what are the pros and cons of each? example
inside:
- pros: quickly get into SLX,or cross ashi positions, good for sumi gaeshi sweeps,
- cons: easier to get passed, harder to take the back.
Outside:
- pros: can more easily access backside 5050, good for transition to back take, helps guard retention.
- cons: exposing your legs to leg attacks, 50/50 is harder to play.
Half guard:
- pros: best of both worlds, you have more access to the back than inside position, can quickly attack the back, can access false reap, z guard, omaplata's, etc,
- cons: worst of both worlds, you're half passed.
Is there anything else anyone would add to this list?
I was literally walking back home from training thinking about this & Bam! Lachlan dropping the knowledge...
This has just completely blown my mind! Thanks for putting this out!
Like so much other great advice, it is 'obvious' AFTER someone explains it to you. You leveled me up today, sir. TY.
Can’t thank you enough for this explanation. Definitely going to be purchasing some of your instructionals.
Great breakdown, I'm hoping to improve my inside guard game at the moment. I have to say I really love Lachlan's style of teaching, I'm going through his No-Gi High Percentage Chokes right now and I'm finishing chokes twice as much as I was before.
Thanks Coach. Great video.
🤯 Game changer! I needed this. You are much appreciated!
Wow that makes so much sense! I have played Butterfly and inside positions very early on as a white belt (training 3 years now), so I find it natural and easy to use. I am also very inflexible so that was good to see that it is a friendly guard to play.
I have lately been trying to use K Guard and struggling big time and this video explains why I have been having trouble. I fall quite naturally into inside so it was obviously completely unnatural for me as well as being inflexible!
Now that I know this, I can work towards using it with the correct mindset, knowing what was preventing me or causing issues.
Thanks, Professor! A wonderful summary. Fantastic video!🤙🏻🥋😎
this helps me sooo much getting a sense of direction! thank you, lachlan!
This is so good. Loving the content and the production is really good
Great video, haven't seen content this intelligent about linking guards.
This guy always has good videos!
This was awesome!
Finally. Much better than there are the closed guard like closed guard and there are the open guards like open guard.
Outside style is what I play. Very good style for smaller. With Gi I also use De La Riva, lasso and spider guard to bring more depth to it.
Amazing video
Such amazing information. Thank you
Two more things: outside foot position open guards are the only ones that preserve the ability to upkick the opponent in a situation like MMA. At the longer ranges of guard retention in MMA the major factor preventing the standing fighter from closing the distance is the threat of an upkick. 2: sliding rolling and spinning on the floor requires that you be on a low friction surface, often only sweaty BJJ mats will be slippery enough to invert under an opponent that's stacking you. Doing invert based movements like at 13:07 on a rougher abrasive surfaces like a paved sidewalk, alleyway, or dry MMA canvas would be difficult if not actively self-destructive.
I can invert on velcro I don’t really think so lol I can invert on concrete/on a sidewalk with full clothes on quite easily.
@@arodmcgraw94 pics/vids or it didn't happen. I'm not talking about rolls or inversions where you're not sliding on the ground, I mean specifically where you're rubbing and sliding around like at 13:07
@@ardaonen260 you would scrape your back or rip your top but I think it is doable
@@MrSnippety try it. get a friend to stack you and invert under them on the pavement. I highly doubt it.
Good point. But also consider how effective Demian Maia was with the In-out game in MMA. The moment his opponent landed in his guard he'd go right into a single-leg / sweeping sequence.
my man , this is really insighttfull stuff, thanks:)
Thank you!!!
Thanks for doing this video Lachlan, I think some commentators do not understand that you are speaking in general terms to categorize these guards to better enable us to understand how they work together. I have not seen many coaches break down guards into categories so students can better understand how to structure their guard learning. Thank you for this.
In addition, I wanted to ask you whether an outside player would be missing out on a lot if they don't specialize or play inside guards and vice versa and how does gi vs nogi factor into this question? And how about for longevity? Say you are a hobbyist or wants to roll for as long as possible, what guards would you recommend then to protect your body?
Deep half in the gi is what all the old man purple and brown belts played at my former academy
Lachlan do you think your approach to 'outside foot positioning' open guard can be married well with the concept of 'wrestling up' or do you think they are fundamentally two different as approachs to open guard?
Awesome
Lachlan Giles is great instuctor 👍
The one you have on grapplers guide😛
what are some ways to force open guard / k guard if the opponent is on their knees and not standing?
🔥🔥🔥
Good Afternoon Lachlan, thanks for this insightful video. Where would you place x-guard or single leg x guard in these subtypes?
3:25-3:50
If we like to use half guard, Z guard is also an option right?
I feel like an outside style is better for mma and self defense. Though half guard is extremely useful as well
I want the rashguards
great stuff. Pozdrowienia dla dzidzi
From a half guard point of view I find it is much easier for larger opponents and being larger to play a half guard game. I think of people like Lucas Leite and Bernardo for that example though. I do agree that it probably isn't for everyone and the smaller you are you probably shouldn't be doing it against larger opponents but it is something to consider for larger folks.
Half guard is the best “closed” guard I can play against bigger people. I’m 155 and it’s very hard to play a full closed guard against people as they get closer to 200 pounds. Butterfly is my preference but half is a key transition for me if they somehow disrupt my butterfly game and I want better “attachment” to them.
On the crossroads before diving to specific guard style. Primarily focused on no gi. Tall and long limbs type of guy. Which one do you think would suit a tall grappler better?
I'm also on the taller side. I play a lot of butterfly guard, knee shield with an underhook, SLX, open guard & DLR so mostly outside positions minus butterfly guard and knee shield
Hey Lachlan, great video. One view I had that I thought you could way in on. When you talk about inside leg position not scaling up well as compared to outside. What do you think the reason behind Marcelo's success with inside positioning against bigger opponents? He obviously had great success with it and every time you mentioned not being the best for bigger opponents, I couldn't stop saying, but what about Marcelo? haha
I'm not lachlan but Marcelo is just built different 😂 everyone that I know thst has rolled with Marcelo says that he's on another level
I just went back and watched his match with Rico Rodriguez before answering. Interestingly he seemed to be in a lot more trouble when his feet were on the inside. His two best attacks (the sweep and the heel hook) both came from feet in front rather than inside, leading to a leg entanglement. That said the game has evolved a lot since those days, and so too i'm sure has Marcelo.
Marcelo definitely does use inside position vs big opponents though, his roll vs Lovato was insane
@@AbsoluteMMAStKilda Right on. From what I recall, Marcelo would scoot backwards and go feet-on-hips whenever he felt in danger. Towards the end of his career, he was developing feet-on-hips (an outside position) to work upper body attacks like Omoplatas and Guillotines.
Butterfly with Arm-Drags, X-Guard and Heel Hooks was his A-game. Feet-on-Hips with Guillotines, Omoplatas and Stand-Ups was his B-game. IIRC.
@@AbsoluteMMAStKilda yeah that makes sense, love your work mate
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Oss
I think Lachlan may have made this video just to use the word congruent
How does "Half Guard is for a more agressive approach" and "Half Guard slows everything a bit down" come together? (Section "1 in 1 out: Pros and Cons")
Ah good point, the aggressive style more refers to sit up guard where you are essentially chasing a single leg. Both half guard on your back and sit up guard tend to slow your opponent down though as you attach yourself to their leg. Compared with open guards and butterfly guard where it is common for the opponent to disengage and reset.
@@AbsoluteMMAStKilda I think that I understand what you're talking about. Thank you for your answer, and please, if possible, more of these "schemes"-Videos!
I think he means your opponent isn't going to be jumping around as much in the In-out / Half positions because you're glued to their leg. It's more 'aggressive' because it mostly lacks distance control, so there is rarely a reason to not just attack immediately. Think of Lucas Liete in BJJ or Demian Maia in MMA.
🦖
Inside = Gordon Ryan
Half = Craig Jones
Outside = Lachlan Giles
(just copying for myself)
Kinda ruined my game, I am one of the smaller guys and I play half guard, coyote, dhg, a bit of butterfly, now I'm trying more closed and k guard, will try to add dlr, but it's hard
Same! Especially when you're not very flexible. I've ended up in very bad positions sticking to this but hoping that i can learn to navigate the outside positions better. Work in progress for sure haha
I would not buy-in all what was said at the beginning that integration is an issue. To me integration between inside and outside position leg lock game is well possible and depend on situation. We can see Craig and Gordon both have strong attacks from DLR, RDLR, Butterfly. It all depends on level of masterity of athlete, body type and personal preferences. Someone plays 80% inside position leg locks and 20% outside position leg locks, other can be completely opposite. But for sure I would never stick to one game only (inside or outside) and limit myself.
Second point is regarding prons of outside position and importance of first layer of defense. The switch between defense and offence requires you to give up first layer of defense in order to make own connection before launching attacks. But same is for inside position. No one is asking to give up immediately you first layer of defense.
I don't recall ever seeing Gordon use DLR or K guard offense in a match which resulted in a sweep or submission, i'm sure it has or could happen, but he is almost exclusively a half guard, seated guard, and butterfly guard player. Same goes for the likes of Eddie Cummings, Marcelo etc. Craig does have a bit more diverse game but still heavily favors a half guard/inside position style.
Similarly, you will really struggle to see Miyao, Musumeci, Levi, or any of the outside players doing a butterfly sweep, or inside position. The only time their feet are on the inside is if their opponent has forced them there, and they usually just try to frame and recover back to outside again.
You might see it as limiting yourself by choosing a style, but in reality you probably limit yourself more by trying to master too many things that don't connect. Best to pick a few types of guard that mix well together so your style is congruent. That is what those guys above have done and it is a strong reason for their success.
Of course it is ok to learn everything, but in terms of having a game plan that you would bring to a competition, it is important that you have a congruent guard.
@@AbsoluteMMAStKilda Hi Lachlan. I have instructionals from you (leg locks, half, passing half) and from Gordon (open guard -both parts, half-guard), as well as from Danaher leg locks & New Wave where he is showing counterattacks while escaping from bad positions. So I know what I am talking about. Even i watched Z-guard of Craig. You all guys are mixing inside and outside positions based leg entanglement. Only as I stated above percentage is different. Danaher lineage used to prefer more inside position based before, now they try to diversify. You may look at his former student's (brown belt) CZcams channel Robert Degle. He is using both in competition and teaching in class.
And frankly, in No Gi at world class level only you made outside positions based leg lock game so successful, which is greatly appreciated and respected. It is well known to someone who in this sport for a while. Mike is just stepping into No Gi world from Gi, Miyao Bros while using it did not have so success as you had.
So basically, for the sake of maturity in Jiu-Jitsu I believe modern leg locker has to know both game, it is inevitable, but what would be own core game it depends on personal preferences and body type, as stated before in first post. As in everywhere in Jiu-Jitsu, e.g. someone is better in armbars, another in kimuras or triangles, or chokes, although everyone has to know them all. Why only one leg locks system shall be exceptions?
@@SD-lf3rw I am not talking about leg lock systems but about guard strategy. No doubt Gordon, Craig etc understand the outside position game, it is great to understand as much as you can, you might see it in their instructionals but you don't really see them play it in competition. Just as I can teach inside position game, I will have content out on that soon, but when I compete right now I would avoid that as much as possible. There are certainly ways to link them, but overall it is more congruent to work other guards that mix well with your A guard.
@@AbsoluteMMAStKilda Hi Lachlan, thanks for your clarifications.
However if we start looking at guard, primary meaning is defense, right? Of course many world class athlete made it more attacking position, but main goal is defense. So if we take your theory of layers (Keenan Cornelius has exactly the same) in guard developed very detailed in guard recovery instructionals, there would be situations when opponent has not yet passed some of layers, and when some of the layers are passed. I understand that your new instructionals of Open Guard are mainly related to the situation when training partner is not yet passed majority of layers of defense and you can have privilege to establish your own grips and connections to launch attacks from open guard.
But what about situations when opponent passed some of defense layers and much deeper while passing? I think it is appropriate to say then only X guard and his modifications/supine shin guard are options. And X guard in inside position guard. The same is related to escapes from bad positions and recovery, while practicing them it would be awkward to try to recover to outside position based guard while having inside position based guard very next to you and immediately begin own attacks. We cannot bank purely on outside open guard even in game A for competition and inside position guard must have own place in the game.
Considering theory of guard as primary defensive tool and his layers I believe that everyone must be effective from outside based guard and inside based guard.
Of course I like more your approach (I am also not big guy, 57 kg only) that the best is start work from outside position guards instead of jumping straight to half giving up some layers of defense to opponent, although some athletes are/were effective giving up them and still becoming top level.
Happy to hear your opinion on that.
lachlan is prob my favorite instructor compared to danahers or craig jones or nicky. they all talk the same. “…like so.” or “we…” lachlan doesnt sound like that