Vinny listens to Strange Sounds (from the Deep Sea, Space and more)
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- čas přidán 17. 03. 2024
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Stream date: March 17th, 2024
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March 17th, 2024 Stream:
[Pre-Stream] St. Patrick, Sunday Stream Talk, VineSnacks YTP ► • [Pre-Stream] St. Patri...
Gettin' Doom With It #14 ► • Vinny - Gettin' Doom W...
Vinny watches Super Mario World: Mario & Yoshi's Adventure Land ► • Vinny watches Super Ma...
[BRB Talk] Emerson, Lake & Palmer, LSD Game Jam, Permanent Spine Damage Rhythm Heaven ► • [BRB Talk] Emerson, La...
Vinny gets Brain Necrosis live on Stream ► • Vinny gets Brain Necro...
Strange Sounds (from the Deep Sea, Space and more) ► • Vinny listens to Stran...
#Vinesauce #Vinny - Hry
![[Vinesauce] Joel - Voices Of The Void ( Part 3 )](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/80lHlcB1660/mqdefault.jpg)
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too early damn
Someone please send in a pack that is completely serious until halfway through Vinny opens one and it's just mrbeansexjackass but slowed down.
MISTA FAHHAHT
Or kingassripper
I mean there are dolphins farting into the mic at 22:20
Title one "Uranus Methane emission" but the audio is wetfart.mp3
Maybe even Mr beast sussy squidgames buggy wuggy vanbab skibidi dop dop yes yes with Michael cera and the joker frozen Elsa spiderman
Pack creator here! Thank you again Vinny for streaming my strange little pack, I had a lot of fun making it and I'm so glad Twitch chat and the CZcams comments enjoyed it. This has meant so much to me, thank you all for all the kind comments, in both Twitch Chat and here on CZcams. I have some things I'd like to add.
I consider myself an amateur sound designer, so that's why I collect so many strange and mundane sounds. Majority of the sounds I included in this pack I've used in my music albums or other projects. As I stated in the pack, I lean more towards dark/horror works. Most of my albums are dark ambience or some flavor of horror. However, I made this pack with education in mind. I am a very firm believer that sounds like these don't need to feared when we understand its source (unless it's the mountain lion, then get the fuck out of there).
Most of the the write ups for the space sounds came directly from NASA (copypasted), as I don't have that much knowledge about how these sounds actually turn into... well sound. It's kinda complicated, I did my best to summarize it. You can also download most of those sounds from NASA's website or Soundcloud directly.
I didn't know Vinny has thalassophobia. Oops. I'm a massive nerd about the deep ocean, I don't find it scary at all.
1:07:58 So this sound was a bit of an oversight on my part. Chat seemed a little saddened by it and Vinny obviously remarked that it was dark. I've become desensitized to a lot of the horrors of nature because I just... love learning about nature. So I included this with the mindset of "Oh, this sound is interesting." not "This'll horrify chat." That was an oversight and I apologize.
1:20:32 Vinny skipped over the story for this one, which caused a lot of confusion in chat. Doesn't help that the sound itself is very quiet. Long story short, this was recorded out in the backwoods of Idaho shortly after hearing a mountain lion scream. I wasn't sure what this was, as I don't know if its a sound a mountain lion makes. There's a clearer version of this on my CZcams channel in Stray Recordings Volume 2.
1:23:35 I was actually heavily debating on including the RezDragon recordings folder for this reason, but I've also shared this on my own accounts. Also you can download beans.mp3 (aka Fart with Reverb at Half Speed) on my Patreon, it's free, you don't have to sub.
Lastly, Vinny cut my preview track just before the sound design part of that track actually started. I don't hold it against him at all, there was a line in the document that even said he didn't have to play it if he chose not to as I didn't want to seem like I was hijacking the stream. The track in question is called "the bottom" and it's from my album Alone at the Edge of the Sea. The original is 10 minutes long, and this preview was two minutes.
Also, the "unknown persistent throughout years" Environment sound at 43:00 as heard from underwater sounds exactly like persistent throughout years Earth sound at 3:00 as heard from space.
Thanks for making it, such a great segment
Have about 30 minutes of shortwave fuckery on my channel (I gave interpreting the audio a try, but haven't completed the list yet), feel free to give it a listen or download for use in your projects. 👍
Could you maybe publish a list of all of these or the pack itself? It's cool!
Really neat hobby! Imagine all the sounds no one hears that are fascinating.
I love these kinds of segments so much.
Seeing chat react with Vinny is so funny because some of the sounds are so unnerving or wacky.
@@TrueLadyEvilChan it’s just so fascinating to me, I’ve always been so into the ocean and space.
I love being able to see the MonkaS’s when something slightly spooky plays 😂
I love the numbers station one, hearing Swedish Rhapsody again is a good spook.
@@mostverticalproductions4808 Do you think the chat would break when three note oddity play?
Someone should've snuck Joel's Duende Alarm into this pack.
*PROTECTIVE SHIELD! PROTECTIVE SHIELD!*
@@erc3338VOMIT BLAST
I'm surprised Vinny hasn't played Voices of the Void. Seems like it would be right up his alley.
*NO DRACULAS*
*NO MUMMY*
*NO DUENDE*
@@GeminiWoods These segments always remind me of Votv, especially since some of the planet "sounds" are used in that game. (Jupiter ones specifically)
8:46 "hey pops does this thing work?"
Sure does, I just oiled it!
Beautiful. Give it up, baby!
9:15 its doing a polyrhythm almost sounds like 7/11 polyrhthm
lmao
Fire beat
"The planet's dying, Cloud! You can even hear her cries!" - Barret, probably.
So Minke Whales:
-can throat sing
-have laser blasters
-also have either spring doorstops or jaw harps
Also, the Jupiter aurora sound is used in Voices of the Void. The spectrogram looks exacty the same, too
Strangely, that aurora is used for a Venus signal ingame
Voices Of The Void irl part 2
:3
@@labenvenci1584omg hi argemia
Some of these recording are actually used in VOTV
Fuck I wish Vinny play this game some bad, but I also know that his zoomer brain rot wont handle slow burns like that.... where he also have to... "gulp".. think..
@@ghoulbuster1do not google Kerfus 🥵
19:11 "These are whales" *Regi-Rock noises proceed to come out of my computer's speakers*
ÜN ÜN ÜN ÜN
i could do with more of these. i know vinny "didn't want to make it boring" but scientific explanations for neat sounds in space and the ocean are right up my alley
Reminds me of that post where someone was asked “explain physics like you’re in love with me” and the reply was “Everything sings.”
_That's really cool and kinda wholesome._
IDK why but there's something disappointingly mundane about the fact that the sun just sounds like a spotlight that was left on for slightly too long.
I feel you but its just what we can pick up now, eventually that will change (if we are still around by then lol 😂)
I imagine if you could hear the Sun from any respectable distance, it would sound absolutely horrifying. There's no atmosphere but I can't help but imagine it sounds like someone eating a microphone mixed with absolutely screaming, roaring fire and a dash of low thunderous booms that would eject your insides if you could survive close to the Sun.
@@bongchoofnever been more scared of what the Sun looks and sounds like than Outer Wilds
@@bongchoof"There's no atmosphere" is the key detail there...
well... it's a pretty accurate description considering gas giants like the sun slowly die out over the millenia, so i can only imagine it sounding like a flickering light source of some kind lol
Would love if Vinny did a rip off of Joel’s spooky video nights but with actual creepy videos (like maybe ARGs and whatnot) instead of laughing at bad cryptid sightings. I think it would fit his vibe quite well
💯💯
More than just reactions, I'd like to see streams where he and Chat have a back and forth on spooky subjects and stories. That way it can go in interesting directions and you still get funny remarks and bad jokes.
It's just a matter of keeping things fresh, and it might end up an infrequent thing like Corruptions and Commercial Chaos.
ARGs ran their course, he should watch trashy documentaries like Lost Tapes
@@Supermariosupervideocant, it's copyright dingus
@@WeAllWitnessed You used to be able to watch them on youtube a while back, damn it lol
vinny yearns for voices of the void
Omg macmegagerc pfp
Part 3 of this segment will see Vinny decoding the golden record and Aricebo message live on stream.
And, more importantly, the Arecibo _answer_, which I think we can all agree was a genuine message from aliens (real)
Answers for some of the shortwave mysteries:
45:59
This is CODAR, a special radar that is used for tracking ocean currents. This is what it sounds like when listened to in AM mode. When in SSB modes it sounds cooler, like a laser gun.
You can hear them a lot at various speeds and spanning a variety of bandwidths around 4-5mHz
47:18
This guy is probably a ham radio op and not a CB. It's possible he was on the CB portion of the band here (impossible to tell without knowing the freq) but he mentioned getting fucked on 40, most likely band conditions on 40m (a ham band from like 7mhz to 7.35mhz).
Also the second guy is a ham radio op for sure. And doing a contest. Sounds like it's someone who called CQ responding to a response by confirming their callsign and giving a signal report. "Youre 5-9" is a ham radio RS signal report that ham contestors do. QSL in this context means confirm copy on the response. Definitely a ham radio op. CB doesn't require callsigns or licenses.
52:34
This sounds like a WEFAX transmission but either out of tune, received in the wrong mode or a combination of both. The DAAA-DOOOOO sounds like the ending tone of a WEFAX transmission but inverted (using LSB instead of USB or AM and tuned to a side of the transmission). The rhythmic clicking and crackling is the biggest give-away here. WEFAX is basically a super old-school way of transmitting weather maps to boats. It's like super slow SSTV before SSTV was a thing. You can decode these transmissions using a free open source program called FLDigi. They're transmitted pretty much worldwide. I'm not 100% on this but it's the most plausible thing I can think of.
czcams.com/video/KEugHeQ_7f4/video.htmlsi=Hb1IGbz5XNyJgo8a
Example of a WEFAX transmission. Again, its going to be inverted highs and lows, because of the incorrect listening mode and being kinda off tune, but the timing lines up.
In 3:05 in the linked video you can hear the end tones.
Thank you so much for all of this! It's a big reason I included them in the pack, I was hoping someone could shed some light on them for me.
42:08 The bump at the end of that recording makes me think it is just a silly sea animal clumsily bumping into the microphone
48:05 "Getting SPOTS", sorry to disappoint. He's talking about managing to get small bursts of radio chatter from the US, "must be a good day" meaning the right atmospheric conditions for him to bounce the radio waves off of.
Took me a while to decipher what the folks in the radio said at ~48:52 but they seem to be jamming to some kinda Javanese music; at around ~49:20 these blokes started chanting "Ojo lali", which is Javanese for "Don't forget".
I've always found "space sounds" weird because they're not technically sound but just radio waves turned into audio. So to me it's a bit dissatisfying that these aren't what space "sounds" like but what they "look" like via audio.
Go make your own rocket and then eject yourself into space to hear what space actually sounds like then.
@@derpstick5467 Sounding a little sussy there bud, wouldn't want to get ejected now skibidi?
Just wait till you start getting into astro-photography. Most of the stuff we've "seen" in deep space isn't in the visible spectrum. The universe aint that pretty of a place.
the most interesting ones to me are when they sonify radio signals from 20-20khz because they're the same as our range of hearing. so it's like using an old AM radio that doesn't select for a specific frequency
EM waves are most commonly interacted with through audio, not visually. There's no way of visualizing most of these either; most of the spectrum is not conducive to conversion to visual imagery. Even then, EM imagery like UV or X-ray are also "compromised" since they're being presented in the context of visual light.
Man, imagine one day scientists pick up a signal, they listen to it, and it's low-quality 'Funky Town'. Imagine how mental that would be.
I honestly think it would be hilarious if a streak of radio waves got ejected into space, reflected off some metal asteroid and we caught the reflection.
I thought you were going to say "SPIIIIIIINNNNNNN"
Remember, Joel's anti alien alarm was broadcasted into space
A radio playing Funky Town huh, hmmm now why might that sound familiar...
@@ex_philemon Them aliens are up to some messed up stuff out there man! D:
imagine living so deep down in the ocean that you never see the surface. your whole life you hear a muffled hum of noise coming from the endless liquid void extending into the heavens above you, you never find out it’s from hundreds of boats sailing the stormy seas at the surface.
Hearing the electromagnetic-waves-converted-to-audio makes me wonder if there's anything out there that experiences electromagnetic signals in that way. Even just from a speculative biology standpoint, I think it's interesting to consider that our way of "hearing" may not be the only way. Like how certain animals are able to feel/visualize the Earth's magnetic fields. Crazy stuff.
"This is the sound a wolf makes when it's hurt." Yeah, I can tell. _Ouch._ Poor doggie.
36:49 I love the juxtaposition.
"I do wonder what that does, in regard to animals."
...
"TORPEDO BEING LAUNCHED."
I love the thought of the chat member who submitted the shortwave radio pack, just tinkering about with a shortwave radio, finding interesting crispy noises to listen to. And all bc Vinny's prior stream awakened the interest. You keep on truckin', shortwave dude. I love hearing about ppl getting into hobbies.
Blackholes remain one of the scariest things in the known universe -- it's just an infinite void of true darkness not even light can escape from.
It’s even scarier than that; apparently space is so twisted inside the event horizon that no matter what direction you go, it leads to the singularity. Also time dilation becomes infinite so that everything that happens inside the event horizon never ever happens from the perspective of someone outside. Couldn’t make it more cosmically terrifying if i tried.
I love space so much
2:58 Vinny was talking about people sampling some of these for space-y songs, but I've actually heard this one sampled before! It's used in the intro to the track "Crying Saucer/Hovering Heart" by an Appalachian punk band called Captain Catfeesh, off their album "A VHS Guide to Indigenous Cryptids". Fun stuff.
I believe this one was also used directly in voices of the void as a detectable signal, which is personally where i recognised it from
Those black hole noises are really disturbing. Sounds like reality itself screaming as it's being dragged into the void.
Also the fear of black holes is called "melanoheliophobia" and there are roaming black holes that fly across the galaxy.
47:44
Here's what I think is being said (edit: I'm not British, I'm Australian)
"[unintelligible] which is a real shame, because, I'm getting spots, uhh, in America, ehh on forty which means it could be a good day on there, ehh for voice."
I'm fairly sure he's talking about hearing transmissions from America all the way in England on the 40 metre band (7 -> 7.3MHz).
A common goal for amateur radio operators is to establish long distance communications with their stations, and certain atmospheric conditions make the feasibility of this vary.
Dracula playing a rimshot after every single mundane sentence made me die laughing
Gradually devolving from ominous space sounds down to "fart with reverb at half speed" is the best shit. Beautiful stream.
Thanks to Vinny and Joel I'm developing a very quickly growing interest in space and weird sounds and signals.
If you haven’t looked up The Conet Project check it out, it’s all recordings of numbers stations and similar transmissions, a couple of the sounds featured here are very similar.
I live in Alaska and hearing 1:15:29 was a genuine jumpscare bc that's one of the stations my car radio is set to
I didn't think we'd ever get a part 2 of this but I'm over the moon about it.
The sound of the wolf in distress absolutely broke my heart.
Vinny would love voices of the void
Joey mentioned during a votv stream that he told Vinny about the game but he responded by saying that he wouldn't have the patience to play it
Vinny also said on stream that he wouldn't have the patience.
1 step closer to Vinny playing VOTV
"The end of that, what the FUCK?"
Saying what we're all thinking, that's some genuine monster shit.
1:09:50
I'm definitely coming back to this. It feels like the days when I messed with my emergency radio out in the woods when I went camping and just turning up channels like this. It feels so otherworldly to experience this with Vinny narrating. It's almost like an adult Reading Rainbow.
The blackhole, lonely whale and spooky saturn are some of the most eerie and crazy things to be discovered. Quite the segment this is Vin, had me feeling all types of things with this one.
I always loved music but I'm beginning to think I might just be an audiophile myself, so much enigmatic sounding stuff kinda thrills me like them scary movies do. Would love to hear some more spooky saturn wave2cyan
I know this is all scientific formulas turned into sounds but you can't help to feel the eerieness of all of it
1:01:20 I hear coyotes almost every week. They aggravate my dog so I go outside and clap really loud and it usually shuts them up :).
0:34
I imagine Vin just sitting on an egg and then it hatches into this segment.
Normally when I'm working in the football field at night, even with very little light, I can find it somewhat relaxing. But throw in some spooky sounds and the whole time I'm expecting to see a silhouette run toward me. Funny how noise can really unnerve you like that.
Vinny of The Void
Love it when Vinny goes off into some real weird nerd shit like this. Numbers stations was another good bit.
7:47 Spooky Saturn indeed. I perfectly understand why the Mr. Saturn came to live on the Nowhere Islands. If I had to hear those sounds every single day of my life I'd move away too.
what about the ones in eagleland?
49:23 The melodic voice is singing "don't forget." in javanese. I can't tell the rest.
Thank you chatmember who made this for including the goofy sounds at the end as it was otherwise alot of nightmare material
You're very welcome, although beans.mp3 was the only "meme sound" I really have haha. I knew chat would love it.
Whales are honestly creatures I can't believe exist on this planet. Completely unreal animals.
As weird as it sounds, I do that with a lot of animals as well. Especially with fish.
Ocean sunfishes should be banished to the shadow realm, goofy creatures.
"We walked on land once but it was boring"
@@kingkongsz I forget where I heard this, might've been on the British panel show QI, but one of the comedians said they look like God got bored of sculpting it halfway through and just went "Yeah that's fine.".
Its kinda hard to wrap your head around something thats alive and as big as a blue whale, unless you've actually seen one. Idc if they aren't aggressive I'd still be freaking out if that thing was swimming under me D:
44:49 you can hear the (completely understanable) fear in vinnies voice as he's finally able to jump out of the deep sea noises section, I take it his subnautica playthrough was very tense
Vinny accompanying us on these strange adventures where we look at stuff or listen to things is really fun.
Very interesting, I love these segments so much I'd love if Vinny did these every Sunday (at some point he'd run out, yes).
Shortwave segments are the best, they scratch that one kind of autistic itch in me.
39:20 sea bab needs consoling. leave your submarine to go help it, tear through the walls to assist the bab
Vinny this is just the Eartbound ost...
58:04 This sounds just like an Elk, they make all sorts of weird & spooky noises like this.
Lookup the video here on CZcams, "Elk Bugle Sound" from the channel Harry Collins Photography, some of their sounds are spot-on.
Oddly comforting. Like turning on a nature documentary to fall asleep
The space noises are all basically the same thing as tv/radio static but just recorded on 50-60 year old microphones and compressed.
I get the feeling Vinny wants to make some kind of abstract noisecore album with these sounds. (And I fully support him)
I grew increasing amused over the segment as we were subjected to the submitter’s sound obsession.
I want you to know, as the pack creator, I love this comment.
I thought it was quite endearing lol
Honestly loved the notation comments.
Once the dolphins started farting into the mic at 22:20 I was completely enraptured
As someone who browses Google maps for fun I love shit like this. Tiny capsules of the world that anyone can experience if they have access to it.
Through out this entire video my cats were alerted ready to flee from any impending noise that came from this stream
Turn down your volume its way too loud
This is sample heaven.
that Andy one was unexpectedly emotional. I hope andy and his dad are doing okay. Andy's probably in his 30s or 40s maybe
The way I squealed when I saw this video pop up in my recommended.
I'm a huge sucker for weird and abnormal sounding noises and sounds or just general strange audio recordings. Which is ironic because I am very sensitive to audio and audio horror in media is one of my biggest fears and there even are certain sounds that trigger my fight or flight response. (There is a very particular moon sound which I am unable to listen to. And before anyone asks: no, it's not Mimas)
I already watched Joel's segments on spooky videos and I adored the section with the deep sea sounds. And I also love Vinny's video on the radio/number station recordings. I love me some good mystery behind real live audio recordings.
So to see more of it makes me extremely happy!
i wonder if the next red vox album will have a song that samples some the weird ocean and space sounds as seen in this video
13:10, Now this whole thing reminds me of the Terran Briefing Room theme. Good Evening, Magistrate!
who has been reaching into my suitcase of weird specific interests for vinny to stream because it's getting ridiculous
1:07:12 Vinny: Squirtle Hispanic : awebo
This was such an unnerving and spooky settlement. Then Vinny played a bunch of fart noises and people vomiting. Never change Vin...
38:20 Wow I can't believe they got a recording of Bao and proceeded to call her out as having no friends.
47:45 hard to pinpoint exactly but my guess is it's West Midlands so near Birmingham but it's not Brummie. Most likely the Northern side so out towards Tamworth or Lichfield.
P.s do not send fart sounds to Vinny
36:10 250dB may sound loud but underwater it is a deceptive. Underwater noise is scaled very very differently from air based noise (as in they use same equations but with different constants and reference points), so while 230dB (sound intensity) is incredibly loud in air (being in the middle of a explosion loud). 230dB (sound intensity) in water is the power of a sperm whale's echolocation clicks, and I don't see sperm whales killing themselves in a explosive fireball every single time they make noise. There is another physics stack exchange article that tried to calculate the energy of a sperm whale's click using air equivalents and found it to be about 100MJ aka roughly the daily power consumption of a small town, which is absurd. Doing the equation properly you get ~67J about 14 million times off (or around 60dB in dB scale).
Overwhelming majority physicists barely have to deal with the strange quirks of the sonar and underwater noise field so it wouldn't be a surprise even most expert scientists get it wrong.
The sound of the sun was obtained by NASA using instruments aboard SOHO:
"The procedure he used for generating these sounds was the following. He started with doppler velocity data, averaged over the solar disk, so that only modes of low angular degree (l = 0, 1, 2) remained. Subsequent processing removed the spacecraft motion effects, instrument tuning, and some spurious points. Then Kosovichev filtered the data at about 3 mHz to select clean sound waves (and not supergranulation and instrumental noise). Finally, he interpolated over the missing data and scaled the data (speeded it up a factor 42,000 to bring it into the audible human-hearing range (kHz))."
Essentially, false color for our ear holes.
What if VInny doesn't have Tinnitus, and the noise he hears is actually an alien signal meant to probe systems for other mold-based sentient life?
Voices of the Vinny
I already know I'm going to love this. As soon as my ear recovers, I'm going to listen and watch the fuck out of this.
To the chat member that was cringe cope contrarian in chat: I hope you're okay. No idea what happened to you, but hey, as long as you're okay, that's good.
what did blud do
i hope they aren't
No mention of this horrid individual I picked up on, so what's the joke here?
are you talking about EruThe1? I genuinely think a mod should ban them tbh, they only bring negativity into the chat and it seems like they don't even like watching the streams with all the complaining they do.
@@scrittle if you have chatreplay look for EruThe1 in chat, they were basically just bitching the entire stream
i'm weirdly obessed with these sounds, i would love to check out more, i usually find some on youtube but the person that sent this managed to find some rare ones i never heard before
The channel “Ringway Manchester” often does videos on weird things happening on the radio spectrum
@@coolfurby5997thank you i'll check that out
This is why I love you vin, you just do whatever you feel is interesting, and theres no real pattern to it. Love the streams
I was on the edge of my seat waiting for that cassowary grunt/rumble; I KNEW there was no way that bastard bird could escape a "scary animal noises" list
13:49 is what you hear when you find a utility closet in the backrooms
the anomalous signals video was one of my favorites, i'm so glad we got a sequel!
That sound at 58:30 ish, could be pipes, sewer system and all that
1:11:14 walmart uses this sorting machine btw
Commercial Chaos but for FM radio ads throughout the years. That'd make for a nice sub segment.
VINNY: sound is how energy moves through the air, the way we hear is by the energy being released by things. Light is the same thing, except it is energy traveling as photons. Anything that works for sounds, works for light. Every color is correlated with a frequency of light, just like every note is associated with a frequency of light. The sun's sound is Sol's emission spectra from the heated elements that make it up. Different elements emit different spectra, they glow differently in very specific frequency ranges. You can use the glow of a star to identify exactly what is in it and at what concentrations.
26:03 i make goth darkwave music and im literally gonna sample this as soon as i get home, its perfect. Thanks for the inspiration vin
Please do more of these. Love how cozy these are.
I love the nonstandard vinesauce streams. What must I do to consume more of these?
ohhh now THIS is the shit. vinny really knows how to make my autism go insane (in a good way!)
This was very good. Almost kind of had a "Coast to Coast AM" vibe to it, which is something I listened to a lot back when conspiracy theories were fun and not people shooting up pizza parlors or attacking the white house.
One of these, I'm going hear
"... KILLLL MEEEEE..."
in one of these, and I'm going to go and live in a hole and eat canned food.
13:09 Sounds like Fallout 1 & 2 Ambience
Extremely underrated segment. Probably my favorite currently.
Just starting doing the sound design for an exhibition on the infinite/unknown, timing is incredible, some of these I haven't heard before and are great topical inspo. Thank you Vine and vinetroops.
Vinny, these planetary sounds is giving me huge nostalgia for Metroid Fusion music, i wonder if the two are related.
This is my absolute favorite type of content and I love that Vinny covers it, it’s like bread & butter