The power of Tri-Bahtinov Masks :)
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Support me on Patreon!: / cuivlazygeek
My Tri-Bahtinov Mask Design: www.thingiverse.com/thing:594...
Pre-made Tri-Bahtinov Mask: amzn.to/3zAcc1y, tinyurl.com/rzbfpahw
My 3D printer: amzn.to/3U9RLSE
Cheaper 3D printer: amzn.to/3U7xqNW or amzn.to/3GdIwej
Tri-Bahtinov mask generator: satakagi.github.io/tribahtino...
Free online CAD: www.tinkercad.com/
At 2;57, I have removed the strips of plastic! (just by pulling on them)
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My equipment
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ZWO AM5 Mount: bit.ly/3BAS8x5 or bit.ly/3JeVUkn
MiniGuideScope: bit.ly/3MyUJhn
Celestron C6: bit.ly/3ocePVs
Hyperstar C6: starizona.com/products/hypers...
Mini Computer (newer version): amzn.to/3LQTgTJ and amzn.to/3K6x2vy
Cable management: www.etsy.com/shop/SmartCompon...
Camera: aliexpress.com/item/400135931...
IDAS GNB filter: idas.uno/space/en/IDAS/gnb.htm
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00:00 Introduction
01:25 Process description
02:25 Initial position for HyperStar
03:18 Star Selection
04:25 Tri-Bahtinov Generation
07:09 Mask 3D design
11:24 3D Printing
12:21 Rough collimation
14:50 Using Tri-Bahtinov Mask
17:45 Checking the star shapes
19:06 What you can do - Věda a technologie
The Tri-Bahtinov mask is a really cool tool. What it blew my mind is that it was developed and perfected by a group of amateur astronomers on the Cloudy Nights forum.
I think you could use a piece of paper to make a shadow when trying to see which set of screw to touch, instead of selecting any random one, that way you avoid the possibility of messing with the ones that are already correct.
I used the shadow of my cables for the initial rough collimation, but not sure how to use the shadows once the Tri-Baht is on! And yes, it's amazing how amateurs can come up with such amazing tricks :)
That's what I love about the internet. Someone has an idea, floats it on a forum and a couple of knowlegeable people, in different parts of the world, take up the challenge and run with it. The outcome is a ground breaking piece of kit for all astronomers - and it was developed for free
I followed the 3D print tutorial and things worked well. I actually bought an Anycubic Kobra Max because I was creating a mask for my Celestron Edge HD 1400 and needed 385mm of workspace. Keep up the great work!
Clear skies…
Awesome Jerry, and thanks for the support! Glad it worked out well!
Absolutely love the tri-Bahtinov mask for my SCT. It completely changed my collimation routine. It's fast and dependable. I glued small knobs to the mask 120 degrees apart, near the rim of the mask at the end of the 3 full radial lines that are 120 degrees apart. I align these the collimation screws (mine doesn't have separate push and pull screws). Then to know which screw to turn I hold my hand over the radius marked by each small knob until my shadow blocks the whiskers of the appropriate screw.
Ooh that's an awesome trick! Thanks!
Awesome trick!
Cuiv, Great video. I'm building a C6 Hyperstar rig right now to replace my beloved RASA 8 which is getting heavier each year. After seeing your video I ordered a tri bahtinov. I'm using a C6-A and hyperstar for short fl and speed and the C6-A plus the starizona .63 reducer for when I want longer focal length. I just got an ASI 533mc pro to go with the new rig. Thanks again for all your great videos!
Superb vidéo and clear explanations ! Many thanks 🙏
Incredibly useful, thankyou Cuiv
Happy to help ;)
After watching this I am ready to tackle my Hyperstar 8. I had a good idea how to do this but watching the video gave me a few more ideas. Thanks Cuiv
Nice, I built my focus mask using Thin plywood sheets, later printed one for myself, additive manufacturing is a blessing for DIY enthusiasts.
That must look beautiful :-)
The Tri-Bahtinov mask is my choice too. You've beaten me to show it in a video ;-) I showed my mask for a bit in my video on the differences between the classic C8 and the EdgeHD 8. The one where I impersonate Dylan O'Donnell. My mask was printed on paper and cut out using a sharp knife.
I respect the manual aspect of cutting the mask - I've done that with Bahts before but for this tri baht the 3D printer was definitely better :-)
You are amazing Cuiv and a treasure.
Aw thank you!
Excellent merci!
Awesome tip! Thanks!
Happy to help!
Another great video Cuiv! I did a deep dive trying to get as close to perfect collimation and alignment. I did manage to get it pretty good. I followed Starizona's recommendation of making the camera flat, and centering the secondary. I used Astap to test the collimation and eventually achieved exactly perfect (at least according to Astap) alignment.
Nice work!
Very interesting video, not only about colimation, also how to make our own Bahtinov masks. I´m now making my own one for my telescope. Great
Thank you-enjoyed watching and seeing your setup. Am an old timer learning about these masks. It’s astonishing to see relatively heavy objects, like your camera, mounted onto the Schmidt Corrector plate, after removal of the secondary. I’m just searching for the fastest, easiest way to collimate my early C5 and C8 for visual use. How much collimation of the secondary, if any, is needed after replacing your secondary in order to use the scope visually? Would you recommend a Bhatinov mask over an artificial star when collimating for visual use?
Great video. Learned something about Tinkercad, always cool. I 3D printed some parts for my RedCat 51 to take flats with. 3D printers are great tool for the astrophotographer. Now I’ll print a mask for my 105 mm Sigma lens.
Have fun printing more stuff :D
Hi Cuiv,
Great video, as always :)
With my RASA what i've found is that spacing is even more important than collimation when talking about corner's stars. Being slightly off the perfect distance from sensor affects a lot, even changing from a filter to another may affect that distance, and there's a correspondence in those corner's stars.
Thank you Antonio!! You're right, that's another painful thing! And as you mention filters can affect this. The hobby can be horrible for perfectionists! :)
Awesome, as much as I hate collimating my C6, I'm willing to try again thanks to you. Btw, my Hyperstar seemed to be collimated right out of the box. Love that thing. The stock secondary mirror on the other hand, ugh. Thanks for sharing!
Excellent on Hyperstar, but you'll get the secondary collimation right in no time as well!
Very useful, as always!
I think it is much faster and cheaper to get the mask laser cut from acrylic. Unfortunately, the facilities that do laser cutting need the files in a different format like .cdr or something else. SVG doesn't seem to work for them.
Wish there was an easy way to import/export the files to other applications!
I would love to try this technique with my RC design scope.. That thing is a pain in the ass!
Maybe it would work? Worth a try! ;)
I use a lot the bahtinov masks for focusing, especially for the guide tube and telephoto lenses of my nikon camera, but the tri-bahtinov is a marvel to collimate my RC8, although the precollimation is done using the TSRCKOLLI collimator the final collimation is done with the mask as you showed it, it is very useful not only to focus but also to collimate.
Thanks for this video. I have been thinking of getting a Tri-Bat for my SCT but didn't really know how it all worked. Now I think I will design one and get a friend to print it@
Plus, my Xmas present list just got a new toy added!
Glad to help add stuff to Christmas wishlist :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek 6 months later, I snuck the 3d printer onto my birthday list and bought it - and have printed a Tri-Bahtinov with great success, apart from when I left it out in the Aussie sun and it warped - but all I need to do is print another one now.
I think I'll update the next one with the suggestion from @crawfprof to pit small knobs on the radial lines.
Thanks again for the video!
So I called the guys at Starizona and asked about this topic (collimating a hyperstar) and they were pretty clear that you should start metal-on-metal and if it ever becomes the case that one of the 3 sides is no longer touching metal to start over again. I think this has to do with back-focus which is super critical at F1.9.
I think if you try again with the Tri-Bahtinov mask but starting metal-on-metal you may find your corner stars have better shapes.
Very interesting, thanks for the tip! I assume this would change though depending on filter vs no filter... Aaaah complexity :)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek right. When I spoke to them I did tell them about the filter drawer but they never asked about the thickness of any filter I may have in it.
Now that you mention it. How do you tune the backspace when changing filters? Or even when you remove it when shooting broadband?
I’m going to call them again and ask
@@j.s.3407any update on this?
Hi Cuiv. I just made a Bathinov focusing mask for my new Dwarf 2 Robotic telescope(1.25"). tested on a laser dot today indoors. Worked great! Going to check it out probably tonight on stars (hoping for clear skies).
Excellent to hear! Well done!
Have you tried tri-bahtinov masks before? How did it work for you?
Support me on Patreon!: www.patreon.com/cuivlazygeek
My Tri-Bahtinov Mask Design: www.thingiverse.com/thing:594...
Pre-made Tri-Bahtinov Mask: amzn.to/3zAcc1y, tinyurl.com/rzbfpahw
My 3D printer: amzn.to/3U9RLSE
Cheaper 3D printer: amzn.to/3U7xqNW or amzn.to/3GdIwej
Tri-Bahtinov mask generator: satakagi.github.io/tribahtino...
Free online CAD: www.tinkercad.com/
At 2;57, I have removed the strips of plastic! (just by pulling on them)
-----------------------
My equipment
-----------------------
ZWO AM5 Mount: bit.ly/3BAS8x5 or bit.ly/3JeVUkn
MiniGuideScope: bit.ly/3MyUJhn
Celestron C6: bit.ly/3ocePVs
Hyperstar C6: starizona.com/products/hyperstar-6
Mini Computer (newer version): amzn.to/3LQTgTJ and amzn.to/3K6x2vy
Cable management: www.etsy.com/shop/SmartComponents
Camera: aliexpress.com/item/4001359313736.html
IDAS GNB filter: idas.uno/space/en/IDAS/gnb.htm
Nice video. Fyi-Some people cut the mask in half so no cables need to be disconnected. Thumbs up.
Yep, I've seen that, even with connecting tabs or hinges - I was to lazy for that :)
Excellent video, thank you. What kind of software are you using for camera?
I use the Ender 3 V2 you showed. It is a great tool at a good price. I printed a lot of stuff for my telescopes by now. A tri-bahtinov mask isn’t one of those things but I don’t need it for collimating my newtonian and I leave my 80ED as it is. Maybe that’s more for SC users although I‘d be interested if it works with my classic Cassegrain.
In theory it should work for classic cassegrains!
Great tips and suggestions - bought one of these for my C9.25.
On a separate note - I thought you had recently put out a video on cleaning your C8 corrector plate due to pollen in Japan - but - could not find it on your channel. Am I dreaming or - perhaps this was an older vid?
I have the same issue - trying to live with it but might try to clean after Galaxy season...
Thanks for the great content Cuiv!
You're right! But I has to remove it as it was deemed I wasn't being careful enough with the cleaning product I was using!
Awesome you used shims 👍Last time I did that I didn't even have to collimate as it was already perfect 🤷 But anyways excellent demo of using a Tri-Bahtinov mask to do your collimation! Luckily I don't have collimation issues anymore because I upgraded to tilt issues (RASA 8) 😱. Hmm now you got me wanting a 3D printer now LOL. Clear Skies!
Dave, you would LOVE a 3D printer, seriously they're amazing!
Another great video Cuiv! Thank you. The Tri-Bathinov mask also works for an SCT setup native or f/7 too. How far do you defocus your star when doing a rough collimation? I know that if it's too defocused, NINA would be able to recentre the star. Thank you and Clear Skies!
Hello David! I defocus my star as little as I can, while still being able to see the secondary shadow!
You should be using a two-piece mask that clip together, so that when you remove it you literally don't touch the imaging train anymore and risk ruining the alignment you just made without even knowing.
I've just buy a used Celestron C8 (not Hyperstar but maybe someday) and collimation is scares me a little (i'm a refractor guy).
Thanks to your precious advice, i'm now reassured 🙂
Enjoy, collimation will be fine :)
Great video Cuiv. Have you also tried a Duncan Mask for collimating your SCT? I would be curious to know what do you think of it..
I'll have to try it ;)
Nice Cuive, I'm wondering if the mask will work with RC telescopes. Also, you can try Sharpcap while colimating. It'll be much easier for you.
I think the structure is similar enough that it could be useful!
collimation issue on my old Meade 8" SCT.
question - will using the Tri-Bahtinov Masks work on the setup (using primary and secondary mirrors) or what would you suggest?
My guy says just to do the donut method - but I was curious if you think that the Tri-Bahtinov Mask will work on a non-Hyper Star setup as well as it did on yours?
I was looking at teh OCAL electronic collimator which you featured last year but it does not seem to be available any more. It may not have been the best option for me anyways.
Curvy, great work. I have a 9.25” celestron Edge HD, do you have a model mask for the 9.25”?
Hello, no sorry
The Tri-Bahtinov mask was by far the best way to collimate my cursed Vixen VMC200L Field-Maksutov.
How do you like your VMC200L for imaging?
@@CuivTheLazyGeek When it's collimation was spot on, it was just a tiny bit better than my 150ED, which is nice. But unfortunately it's mirror cell is not good for such a fast mirror, there is no way between oblong stars because of mirror pinch or oblong stars because of mirror flop at random pointing directions. So my love slowly turned into hatred as I chased the non-existent optimal primary mirror setting.
Very informative video Quiv, very well explained
So if I get it right, a tri-bahtinov mask is for collimation and a normal bahtinov mask is for focussing then ?
Yep, you got it right!
Hi Cuiv, great Video!! Do you think you can use the OCAL for Hyperstar Collimation? Thanks Herbert
Probably, but this is cheaper :)
Amazing tutorial and experiment Cuiv. Now i just need to find me place that will print me one for my Celestron C11 XLT as my printer is to small for that and i don't trust printing it in pieces and stickick it together.
Hope you have fun with that C11 mask :-) once you do get it printed!
Does anybody know if this method will work with a RC (hyperbolic mirrors) telescope?
Nice work. How good are the Playeroe cooled DSO cameras comparing to ZWO ones?!
I have no idea! I haven't used Player one cameras. I like their tilt plate design
Great video! Do back focus and camera tilt affect the pattern the same way?
Yes, and this is the flaw with de tri mask. In the end, you have to do a visual inspection of the corners and then see if some improvement was made
Tilt in particular, but it is alleviated by having the star at the center of the sensor - still, important to check stars at the corners!
I will definitely try a tri-bathinv mask for my RC now. Didn't even know they exist. What do you think about using transparent material, like the masks from William Optics? Could be an interesting comparison.
Thanks Alex! I have no idea about the transparent materials, never thought of it...
@@CuivTheLazyGeek It should have much brighter spikes and make focusing on fainter stars easier. Could definitely help with slow optics and narrow band filters. If I find a place that can do it, I will print two masks to compare and let you know the outcome.
Do you think a Tri-Bahtinov mask would work on a Unistellar telescope? (eVscope or eQuinox)
I've made a few attempts at collimating with a defocused star, as they say, but haven't had much luck with it. Focusing with the built-in Bahtinov mask is fine, but my stars are still misshaped.
Cuiv I have a question for you. The SCT C11+Hyperstar is as well collimated as I can get it and I use a split Bahtinov custom made to achieve focus however aty best focus stars at the bottom of the frames are slighly larger than those in the centre at top of the frame. What is the explanation? Is there a slight tilt in the corrector plate? If so how do I correct it?
Sounds like a little bit of tilt. If your camera has a title plate, try to use that. Otherwise.... Don't pixel peep and be happy nonetheless!
The Tri-Bahtinov mask method can trick you into making adjustments where you are grossly uncollimated. Collimating by centering the Poisson spot when you are barely out of focus (and I mean very slightly) is vastly more consistent.
I actually haven't had much success with the poisson dot method... At least with Hyperstar
@@CuivTheLazyGeek I usually use Firecapture to collimate my Hyperstar. Crank the gain way up, lower the exposure, and set a region of interest of something like 400x400 around a bright star in the center. You should be getting well over 100fps in this state. Slightly defocus (inside, I think) where the diffraction ring is just barely larger than the spot. The ring and spot are subject to a lot of distortion, but you should easily see if the spot is centered.
Hey Cuiv, slightly different question. I see you are using risingcam aps-c sensor on hyperstar. That camera is about 650gms, and with hyperstar its about 1.2-1.3 kg. Does the c6 corrector plate holds that much weight without any isues? I have c6 and planning to buy hyperstar.
No issues whatsoever: czcams.com/video/ool3pnpmAt4/video.html
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks, just ordered hyperstar c6 v4.
Seems like a lot of work to me. It's a lot easier to drive down to Starizona and ask Dean to do it. He has a REALLY good eye for it.
But I am actually interested in a Tri-mask, and I saw that you entered the FL when designing the mask and wasn't aware that was a factor. I have an 8" Edge with Hyperstar, .7 Reducer and am not afraid of shooting in native F10. Would I need to have a separate mask for each FL? Thanks for everything so far. I can't stop staring at my Elephant Trunk image processed step by step according to you NB video on it. - Cheers - "Dustin Gazz"
Hahaha I wish I could just drive to Starizona :)
In theory yes you should have different masks, in practice the one for the shortest focal length should work for all (very fine mask)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek Thanks for the reply Cuiv. Let me give you the short version.
Had just moved to Tucson late last year. Had an old 90mm AstroM and realized that I could take a picture of Saturn with my cell phone. 2 weeks later after buying different gadgets trying to take better pics with the phone, I Googled and found a place that sold telescopes and thought maybe someone there could give me some pointers. I didn't know anything. So mid December I walked in to that little store and met Dean and realized Starizona wasn't even close to the "Telescope - Used CD & Scented Candle" shop that it very well could have been in my mind. I don't know if meeting Dean was luck or destiny, but I do know that it has ended up being damn expensive. Cheers - "Dustin"
Have you tried GoldFocus design ?
Nope, I had never heard of it until your comment :-)
Can you use a tri-bahtinov for Newts as well?
That I don't know, but Newts are so easy to collimate using the Barlowed Laser method (at least that's what I use)...
Yes you can, I have one and it works perfectly.
ehh, first! ;)) Keep it up, we like your videos!
Thanks! Will do!
So how do you know if the result you see from the tri-bahtinov mask is due to being slightly out of focus or due to miscollimation? This is what I don't understand about this process. The spikes will move if you adjust focus just like they move when you adjust the collimation screws. I'm confused on this part. You'd have to be 100% sure you were 100% focused before you adjusted collimation when you use this mask and there's no way to do that imo.
Use one of the three baht images for focus. Then adjust collimation slightly so the other two are better. This will likely also affect your initial baht image, so refocus to put it back at the center, adjust again. Rinse and repeat, until all three baht images are well centered. You are then both in focus and well collimated :-)
@@CuivTheLazyGeek nice! Finally somebody explains that process. Thanks cuiv!
@@CuivTheLazyGeekwhat are baht images? I tried searching but Thai currency is showing up... I have the same setup C6 with v4 IMX571
I have a mak, i don't collimate :)
Aaah but I had a mak and did have to collimate and it was a huge pain! Otherwise once done they do hold collimation extremely well :)
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