JOSHUA & ALI - THE REAL TRINITY - SPEAKERS CORNER
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- čas přidán 31. 08. 2020
- #SALAMCORNER #CHRISTIAN #MUSLIM
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Josh seems genuine, he listens carefully, and gives time to Ali - this is reciprocated of course :)
He is an academic who tries hard for his faith I respect that. Enshallah he becomes a Muslim.
@@emsa7esm203 in sha and Allah
@@emsa7esm203 I’ve heard he wanted to become Muslim but changed his mind at the end.
@@AnonCZcamsAccount God knows best.
@@emsa7esm203 it’s a good thing he didn’t convert
Joshua is one of the most kindest and respectful people in speakers corner.
Look up other videos by dr. Joshua Sijuwade. Great content.
hes my religious studies teacher
@@ashir2119 you go beal 😂
@@RedditNetYT yh
@@RedditNetYT omg I'm a little late too but I go beal lol
Man isn't Josh tired? He is a resilent man for sure. Watching him trying to explain the unexplainable is a very interesting thing to observe.
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
@@HackoGramming lol stop self promoting and guilting people to subscribe to you. That is sad.
@@Qwerty-ff1cr TAKBIR
@@Qwerty-ff1cr i know right. I see the same comment in almost every video😅😅🤣
@John Gleeson Yea I feel the same trying to understand how something comes from nothing and how life is purposeless. That we sprouted from random matter into conscience intelligent beings.
Ali is improving . Well done ali . Keep studying hard
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
@@HackoGramming because ur not giving islamic info on it
He definitely matured intellectually and manner wise ma sha Allah
@@HackoGramming This planet is heaven for the non Muslims
Look up other videos by dr. Joshua Sijuwade. Great content.
Bro Joshua you have make a good point and explained it clearly. God bless
Wow he did admit that if the message was corrupted god will send another msg that won’t be corrupted. Basically what we muslims believe, with more evidence and logical reasoning this guy could become Muslim inshallah.
Inshallah ☝🏾
I do not have the intellectual capacity to respond to people that speak like Joshua but Ali Dawah did it very well. I wish all debates can be like this one. WELL DONE!!!
He didn't. Islam is monotheistic
May Allah s.w.t Let Joshua and his Family become Muslim.
May Allah SWT guide him and his family onto the straight path Ameen
AMEEN!
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
@@HackoGramming the reason Muslims hesitate to follow your channel is because doing anything dishonest is forbidden to us by God. We aren't allowed to hack into anything or do anything deceptively or illegally. I hope that answers the question. Have a good day.
He is an israelite and doesn't need to become a Muslim. He clearly demonstrated better wisdon than Ali I pray you will respect the chosen people of God
All discussions should be like this. Please keep up the good work bro.
SubhanAllah...
Brother Ali, may Allah reward you immensely in the dunya & in the akhira... Josh spoke with lots of our brothers in the park, but this was the best discussion in terms of dawah... Loved it. The points you raised should make Josh ponder over the historical veracity of the Bible and what it means for his salvation.
May Allah guide him and us as well.
The bible is confirmed by the Quran
This debate shows just the perfection of Allah's swt attributes.
Good respectful conversation from both sides Good job from Joshua defending the Trinity and good on Ali for being so charitable
what about prophets and people before jesus " where he didnt exist he wasn't God before and he became God later" where do christians get this logic from
Yeah you are right, he said to make love attribute of God perfect it needs to be two beings to show shared love etc, it means that for 1000 of years God's love attribute was not perfect until he made Jesus
That is against logic if we say that God is all perfect
@@medicallife3486
Dear brother
Just wanted to clarify this for you. Regarding jesus' divinity, he was always divine and with the father, before time existed.
Jesus said
"Now, Father, give me glory in your presence with the glory I had with you before the universe existed. John 17:5 GW"
He had a glory with the father before everything. There was no beginning to god's triune nature. Because he is the embodiment of love. His attributes have always been known through his nature
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
@@rlg6728 I am just searching for truth, I will just ask questions.
ok, I understand that Jesus existed before everything, but my point is why He was sent late on Earth
Do you know that before Jesus came on Earth lacs of people were born and died
Why didn't he showed his perfection of love to the people before Jesus
It means people before Jesus can't say the word perfect for God because till then the love of God wasn't perfect, why would God do that
It looks like God is unique one, His plan of calling people towards Himself in a way is sending messengers, these messengers convince people through love, showing miracles, thats the case with all messengers, jews existed even before Christians, and their messenger or prophet had shown some miracles too same is the case with Jesus only the difference is Jesus has shown more miracles than any other messenger that doesn't make him God
And have you read all the books of Jesus, if it is God's messages then it should be mistake proof
I haven't read but I have heard that these have some mistakes, there is no hatred, I'm just learning
@@medicallife3486
Good question, why is there a difference between the benevolent new testament god (after sending jesus) and the wrathful old testament god.
This is actually a false statement according to Christianity since god is always loving and caring. In the old testament, before jesus. God's plan was to build a covenant from which he will send them his son. That time, great, dramatic and highly evident miracles were occurring infront of those people's eyes e.g. birds and food falling from sky, a sea being split, god appeared as a cloud of light and was witnessed by many.
So, if those didn't believe in god despite seeing those great miracles, then there's no way they'd believe in him in future. Thus god, banished some of those ppl for two reasons to teach early and ignorant humans MORALITY, the second as i mentioned it might be because if those ppl rejected all those great evidences then they might never believe in future. I mean, we do see some ppl now who might have been born and lived their lives and died as non Christians or non muslims e.g. people in rural countries. We might ask ourselves, why didn't god save those ppl. It could because since god is all knowing and had created this world in such order that even if those non religious ppl had the chance to believe, they would still continuously reject god anyway. But despite that god hasn't forgotten about those ppl he's continually reaching out to ppls hearts because he's always just and kind.
Now UR 2ND QUESTION. How were the old testament ppl saved before christ. Well, those ppl were saved by faith and doing good deeds. They had faith in god's promise in the old testament (sending a saviour (jesus)). To put it like this, they had believed in fgod's promise in their future {sending jesus}. We are saved because we believe of what had occurred in the past + Jesus's second coming.
So to put it accurately we Christians will be saved if we declare that jesus is our lord + have a relation with the father through him+we do good deeds and not sin
I enjoyed this civil conversation... No shouting, no insults, no disrespect. Mashallah.
This was a very interesting debate, Ali the maturity in your approach with Josh is amazing to see, I think Josh will look at this debate and do some introspection..
the trinity is biblical, the truth
I've watched a lot of videos with Joshua in them and I like him a lot, im just waiting for the
شهادة،
😜 إن شاء الله
he teaches me in school and I can keep you updated
@@deensaif1653 yes if you can
@@deensaif1653 Me too. 🙂
@@deensaif1653 What does he teach?
A great discussion. Thank you :)
Looks like a sincere and nice person. May Allah guide him InsAllah
I learned something new thank you ☺️
Ali are you kidding me? You ended it intelligently.
Calculation and process on your behalf was absolutely on point mashaallah
May Allah guide him..
Ameen
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
May Allah guide him to the truth. He seems sincere and is very well mannered.
Very intelligent conversation between you extremely respectful people. May Allah guide him inshallah
Ali was lying.
This is how a debate should be carried out
May allah guide josh inshallah. the curtains are so thick that hes trying to explain that 1+1+1=1 subhanallah may allah guide him
This was great Ali! Though I may be Christian, the way u use socrates method was perfect! In the end i agree with most of what Joshua had said with minor differences. God bless you all and hopefully we can seek truth together!
this is what happens when u rely on philosophy to explain god
and not the words of god to explain himself
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
Nothing wrong with philosophy. Both can be used to prove the existence of Allah but primarily, the Qur’an and Hadith qudsi is used to explain Allah
SubhanAllah
Finally a decent conversation quiet relaxed and treating each other with respect ma Sha Allah more videos like this please.
Joshua show real good manners. MashAllah. I don't listen to a lot christians in the park because they are lacking manners. But he shows great discussion skills. May Allah guides him to Islam and strengthen our Iman!!!! Amin
Joshua seems to be an honest and sincere guy. So may God guide him to the truth. He will be a great scolar and dawah figure with his intelect and God,s guidance in Sha Allah. Please be patient with him and pray God guide him.
Masha’Allah brother Ali is very articulate and knowledgeable.
Because God is the Most merciful , the most loving , the most forgiving , the all powerful, the all knowing etc,
Allah is self sufficient.
He is sincere I think, send him the video sheikh Ahmed Deedat about cruxefiction that would be enough for him .
Joshua is great speaker
15:03 LOOL why is someone touching your ring
😂😂😂
Ahahaahahhaaahahaah
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
@@HackoGramming Get a life mate.
I learn a lot from your intellectual and respectful discussions.
He is lying
@SuperOpenminded If you listened to Ali then you've suffered brain damage
@@kuraikenshi2349 why don't you call Christian Prince?
Joshua's explanation for why Trinitarianism makes sense of love was absolutely amazing! I'm literally blown away.
Are you a muslim btw?
@@robinmjoy Absolutely not. I’m a Catholic Christian.
Anyone knows if joshua has a youtube chanel?
Joshua has the most " logical" answer I ever heard for the trinity, and it still doesnt make sense at all 😬
Just bc something doesn’t make sense doesn’t make it false
yea you have what’s called cognitive dissonance 😔 sorry i had to be the one to tell you
@@sidpan8218
True, but if something doesn't make sense or is a contradiction it would be very unlikely for it to be the truth
@@TravelBandit not everyone needs to understand something for it to be true. However, there are no real contradictions in the Orthodox Trinity. The only contradictions are straw man arguments from heretics
@@sidpan8218
Trinity and Bible are full of logical contradictions and impossibilities. Only an insincere person would deny that...
the problem with cooperative love is that he is no longer all powerful because he is in need
Didnt you listen to what he said....co-operative love is necessitated by the very nature of God!
@@robinmjoy well yo u have to prove that
so you are telling me an all powerfull god needs to share his love?
@@abdulkader7104 its not about *God needing* my friend, rather by the very nature of God. To give you a better idea of it, Allah has 99 attributes...one of them is all Loving, if God being eternal ...should be all loving for all eternity...who did he love before creation of universe, humans and angels? Love can only be applied if there are more than one person, so if God has perfect attributes like muslims say...it is by the very nature of God to be 3 persons because God by definition is a necessary being!
@@robinmjoy lol
He can be 2 persons and has cooperative love
Why 3 not 4 or 5 or 100
For me this is needing
It is not necessary that god uses all his attributes every second
And to answer your question gld can love himself 😉😉
So your god is in need
Of 2 persons
Why 2 not 4 or 5 ??
Because you want to prove the trinity
It is just like saying god can t create from nothing
God has to create from something otherwise he is not perfect
Same thung god has to love somebody or share his love to be perfect
You have to prove it not just assert it
@@abdulkader7104 Like Josh said 3 is the minimum necessity for co-operative love, anything beyond 3 would be an act of will, so God can bring about 4, 5 etc if he chooses to, but they can't be God because its not necessary and merely act of will! As I mentioned God by definition is a necessary being! Ill give you another example, to be a parent, a husband and wife should have atleast 1 child..having atleast 1 child is a necessity for being a parent, having more than 1 child will not increase their status of being a parent, hope I made it clear to you
Yes, Joshua, perfectly explained WOW
The smile of Josh when the guy repeatedly say "monology" 😊 22 min
GUYS! Dont forget that you can earn jannah through social media. As for you watching i would recommend you reading comments and answer "Amiiin" to duas. Make a nice islamic comment, for example - may Allah guide us -. So much opportunity's for alot of ajir for very few words and intentions. May God help us in every way possible
Look up other videos by dr. Joshua Sijuwade. Great content.
I wonder where he got this concept of cooperative love?
Wishful thinking. Thats how religion got changed
By studying the nature of Eros and then came to a conclusion on which view makes the most sense to adhere to. That’s what most philosopher do when going about assessing other beliefs
At about 17:53 I started to feel the love of Allah in His Majesty and...... Simplicity....
So God is simple?
@@johnnye5036 The covenant for Mercy and guidance is simple. Satan's is not only difficult, leads to other issues and is not so simple.
G-d is all good yet unknowable and innately manifests Himself in the Incarnation innately sharing His love through his energies ie. XC which we can experience.
Joshua has the most sensible explanation of the trinity and thereby avoids most of its baggage. It still has issues from an Islamic POV of course, but it is the first time somebody could make it sound coherent. Whereas the typical "3 is 1, 1 is 3" just makes you lose brain cells. Someone that displays a lot of intellectual ability. May Allah guide him to Himself (and thereby Islam).
Ali and others need to show Josh all the evidence from academic textual criticism that say the Bible cannot be attributed to Jesus or his followers in order to show him that his beliefs in the Christian doctrine are based on illusions concocted by people who never knew Jesus (peace be upon him).
EFDawah has a whole series of streams on this topic going on right now.
They have all done that before. Joshua is not new to the park. Josh is a nice guy but there is some stubborn block with Josh that doesn't allow him to see the ridiculousness of his reasoning. May Allah remove the block for Joshua. Ameen.
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
In fact a brother who was invited to a live by mansur has refuted directly josh who was also invited !
@@rachelk0237 could you tell me why you think his way explaining the trinity is ridiculous?
Ahmed deedat said it so right - every christian is an unique christian
Coranist laughs
Also every muslim is a unique muslim
what josh is saying is that god gain new attributes
that means that he changes
yet god does not change
the contradiction is on his behalf
Yes his argument for the trinity is not consistent with the contingency argument.
@@shoopinc even with the kalam argument bro
because how did they make the case for the kalam argument
they said everything that begins to exist has a cause
how did they substantiate the fact that everything we see began
from the changes
since god changes then that means that the creation can be eternal just like god because god has to be eternal
so
it goes against the kalam argument
i hope u understand
Joshua is actually a teacher at my high school lol
Everyone in this comment section, let's all make a sincere dua that Joshua comes to Islam. He's a good guy. I would love to witness the shahadah of Joshua. May Allah guide Joshua to true monotheism and to recognize Muhammad ﷺ as a prophet. Ameen.
Are you a convert yourself?
@@robinmjoy Yes 😊
الحمد لله
@@rachelk0237 What made you leave your former religion?
@@robinmjoy I could talk for hours about that but suffice to say that truth is clear from falsehood. There is an abundance of primary source material to prove the objective truth of Islam. I could go on and on about the logic behind the necessity of there being a single infinite entity that gave rise to existence that we know and that entity (God) must be outside of creation and cannot be creation itself.
@@rachelk0237 As a Christian myself I agree God exists out of time and space i.e creation but that still doesn't negate the idea that god can't enter into his creation when he wills, sometimes I don't understand why muslims can't comprehend the beauty in God becoming one amongst us. When I speak to muslims they say they cannot accept the idea of a God who came out of a women, ate, got tired...this is the primary differences in our faith, God has worked his way to us, there is no way man can work his way to God because we are imperfect, Now you could say that you could enter heaven only through his mercy, what about justice? Something has to be paid for the ultimate penalty that is death(seperation from god) and God decided to pay the penalty through himself.
These kinds of discussions used to happen in the seedy Times Sq. Of old. Muslim guys and mostly evangelical Christian boys verbally sparing full of passion and zeal - amidst the moral ruins if you will.
At 21:01 - According to the things I have learned from Hamza Tzortzis God does love the evil doers too but not in the sense of hubba- which is one form of love - but in the sense of rahma meaning mercy. And even my dictionary shows that mercy is synonymous with love.
Check out Hamza Tzortzis reaction to William L Craig.
This Josh guy making it seem like you need a PHD to understand one skewed specific take/opinion on worshipping God, just not practical, Islam’s Tawheed is necessary for all mankind, simply realistic.
wa alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah
from bangladesh
I know this comment is late but Joshua kind of fell into a trap by his own logic at about 23:00, I'll tell you why
It's called euthyphros dilemma, I studied it in philosophy.
He says God does the action because its good, therefore God is subjective to external moral law such as goodness which places God inferior and not the beginning/uncreated as it existed before him as a seperate agent. Therefore using his logic, God cannot be "perfectly good" because he seems to be the only the orchestrator of telling good actions rather than creating them like himself.
SubhanAllah, this is why Islam simplifies things in such a profound way. In the Qur'an it actually specifies this I can't find the exact quote but it's about Allah creating evil as a test for mankind, so they can carry out actions that are liked by God (which are good). It all gets a bit confusing when philosophy comes into it but hopefully this strengthens people's faiths a bit. There's many arguments I could make against the trinity like this lol it's logically flawed in so many ways, no matter how hard Joshua tries to justify and explain it, it adds more problems. InshaAllah Allah guides him.
did i listened "salam to Bangladesh....."?!
in short terms what he is saying is that god needs us minute 17:00
how is he all perfect but still needs his creation?
Instead of a knowledge battle, Ali did amazing job in this debate looking forward to more of this, Josh need to study Quran the evidence he requires are in there..
Please give that man a English Quran.
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
well love of three beings towards one would also be greater than two towards one and so on
Josh your awesome and polite, but after 15mins I realised you are still trying to explain GOD, it’s come to my understanding it should not be this difficult to explain what god is? It’s evident now that Christianity is confusing. Islam is beautiful and honestly Its so simple ameen
I‘m Muslim Allhamdullillah and once discussed it with my Best Friend and she tried to Explain about the trinity in Christianity and I didn‘t really understand it but Joshua explained it very well but it still doesn‘t really make sense to me since the 1+1+1 is 3 which means that the God they are talking about is in need and is sharing his devinity which makes him weaker and not so powerful and devine anymore but in Islam Allah is the most powerful and the most devine without sharing his devinity and he isn‘t in need which makes more sense to me and every Muslim and potential Muslim.
Before anybody misuse this word like Joshua did. Monolatry is belief in the existence of many gods but with the consistent worship of only one deity. The term "monolatry" was perhaps first used by Julius Wellhausen. Please like this so more people can be warned in using this word out of context
i really want to understand joshua but i see alot of contradiction like for example if the son is equal in power wise and knowing wise to the father why he always referencing to the father? isnt he self aware that he is equal divine entity?
An actually well-educated Christian believer. This is such a rare sight to see and I love it. I thought this conversation would be just like the other Christians but this is a really good conversation. Good job team SALAM!
Alhamdulillah, thank you br Ali. Josh has learnt in the last three years to admit that now God is only the Father, although he is still problematic to take out divinity of Jesus. Holy Ghost/Spirit is easy. May Allah SWT bless Josh with hidayah. He is a step closer to submit to the only God..
may allah guide him to islam
I like to listen Ali and Hijab because they never bring the Madhab in dawah. First bring the person in islam and then let the person read and decide. We are all muslims either we follow any madhab.Ali is improved so much.
The first true christian. He seems to be a subordinationist. If not like those who defined the doctrine maybe to a bit lesser degree. But he did say there is a hierarchy and for being one of the few TRUE christians and followers of nicean creed I commend him for that. Hopefully he comes to pure monotheism AT LEAST if he won't accept islam just like Jesus always worshipped only God. For his good inshallah. He's a lot closer than the rest but the way I see it God is divine and people are human. That's it...
Although he seemed to be an articulate speaker, he mangled the very foundation from where he was catapulting his views. He implied that Islam is in accordance with monolatry which is a contradiction in itself. Monolatry is the worship of one God without denial of the existence of other God's whereas he implied that there's only one God(monotheism) and there are three divine entities worthy of worship(polytheism- as 'just' worshipping multiple entities reiterates this fact.)
If anyone creat tow things like him exactly even they can’t be equal to that creator coz he is the creator
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
how do you know they are non muslim or muslim. you never know it so stop spreading hate
it still confusing... but joshua is the best narrator of trinitarian in corner speakers... may Allah guide you
he’s my philosophy teacher and he has a PhD😭😭😭
You serious?
@@ertugrulghazi1283 he is, he used to teach me
Ali Dawah is truly sincerely trying to understand the view of Bro.Joshua. I hope Joshua will help him to understand that Jesus is 100%GodMan Truly Divine Truly Human.
#Jesus Is God
@*** yeah 100%God Man. He doesn't shifts
@*** yeah that does prove Bible is right. Thanks for it. The Bible says Word became flesh and dwelth among us
Josh, to practice shared love and collaborative love, is to be *human* This is what happens when you believe God is a man.
Well said
Well the Christian position is God created us in his own image and likeness
Just a correction: Monolatry is the worship of only one God, but with the belief in existence of many gods/ without denial of the existence of other gods. It is thus completely incompatible with Islam. Josh was defining the term incorrectly (or at least he didn't mention the other half of the definition), as he was attributing Monolatry to Muslims.
Peace, why stop at three?
why the non muslims when I ask them to subscribe to my channel they do it fast but when I ask the muslim brothers they ignore me >?
@@HackoGramming stfu
Mashallah this is how you know Islam is the truth, islam says 1 god, Christian belief you need a computer to decode it.
sooo what about your first book the bible was in roman wasnt he jewish ?
I'm orthodox Christian and I like my brother Josh, but I feel his description of the trinity is way too academic for the lay person
He has PhD in philosophy, he fell into the trap of his own knowledge when he debates with non-academics folks.
No Anthony Joshua and Mohammad Ali yo?
@30:40
If "loving" is an action and therefore require additional entities, why not also the "all-seeing" attribute. There is an inconsistency here, does this mean God would also need 2 other entities to "See" in the most perfect way? What about the "all-hearing" attribute?
Allah/god is "unique".
Ali made a good point by asking why only 2 extra entities and not 3 or 4.
The absolute truth is that the most perfect way God has to be is only in 1 ( a non dividable "form")
If there is 0 or NO god that is bad and nothing would exist. If there is 2 that is a contradiction an logically impossible.
Allah is 1 & that is the most perfect way. Also god is unique why would you apply human mannerisms/terms such as shared love corporational love like a husband and wife to a entity who is Unique?
Finally, how would you apply this in a practical form when a person is praying, to whom do you pray?
Allah s.w.t created the heavens & the earth trillions of stars and galaxy's in this heaven alone, to say he requires additional creations to "love" or to see or to hear or to know is absolutely absurd.
I actually like Joshua due to his kind character and mannerisms and yes he has moved slightly towards tawheed, may Allah guide him & all of us Ameen.
Why can’t you have shard power like “shared love” just does not make sense. I respect him though.
The trinity never worked for me and never will. But this christian brother did the best attempt on it. Someone has to have the best explanation for something that doesn't work. And the price goes to Joshua. He would be better of will Islam, he would be a intellectual killer. Allah gifted him with intellect, but intellect can be mans succes or fall, but I can see he is still searching, he is searching after something, that's why he has a other position on the trinity from other christians.
I like Ali very much but I think he let somethings that Joshua said, slide. No idea why, maybe for a greater good.
What I am referring to is the part where Joshua talked about Divinity. So he believes in One God and that there are three divine entities worthy of worship (father, son and holy spirit). Also he gave the properties needed for something to be considered “Divine” which are: all good, all powerful, eternal, etc… So you cannot be divine with one of the properties missing. Therefore, the father, son and holy spirit should have these properties to be worthy of worship. Then, Joshua talked about resurrection of Jesus, meaning: the rising of Jesus from the dead. How could a divine thing that is worthy of worship and is eternal by his definition of ‘Divinity’ die? Or be All powerful? Or be All knowing (Jesus only knew what God swt gave him knowledge of)?
The other point is about ‘Loving’. Joshua basically compared our (living organism’s) concept of Love to God’s. Loving ones self, sharing the love with someone else, and creating love (gave an example of a child or a dog that you and your significant other would share love to/with). ‘Love’, scientifically is based on dopamine release. What being in love/ loving someone does is mainly release a neurotransmitter that controls the brain’s reward and pleasure center that makes the person feel loved (physical contact, intimate conversations, etc….). I would argue that you cannot equate living organism’s concept of Love to God’s All Mighty, since God does not look like anything of his creation, therefore does not need the neurotransmitter ‘Dopamine’ to show love, or experience love. Also, God needing the reciprocation of love to exist means that he is dependent on a condition (certainly not true, God is independent).
There are other points that are contradictory but those are the main ones that stuck with me. I would very much like to hear other people’s thoughts whether they agree or disagree. Maybe this could reach Brother Ali
There is a old writing from a Christian, who had the same discussion with a muslim. He said something like; If you have a king, he is king of the same species. So he's nature is the same as that of the people which he rules over. So therefore you have a kind of respect that befits his Majesty. But now let's say that there is a king and his kingdom exists only out of a other species, a lower kind of species, let's say donkey's. And you call him the king of donkey's, which of of these 2 king's has a greater glory?
That's my teacher the black guy
What do you study?
Our God is One God
Deuteronomy 6:4
shma Israel Adonai Elohenu Adonai ECHAD.
Who expresses His love and sharing in 3 distinct persons because He is not Selfish or Self centered. Who can be the High and Mighty God and humble himself and become a Servant to all Mankind he Loves.
John 14:9
To see Jesus is to see the Father
John 12:44
Belief in Jesus is belief in the Father.""
As the perfect Man Jesus serves us just as the Father serves us in 💘
Philipians 2:6
Who being in the Form of God thought it not robbery to grasp equality with God. But took the
FORM of a servant.
Glory to God in the Mighty Name of Jesus. We love you Lord.
Your correction of "I meant Allah is MOST loving not ALL loving" just means you were lying for the whole segment. MOST loving is an inferior form of love than ALL loving, so "Allah" is not perfect by your definition. His love is lacking.
Im sorry but how can you single out the Father as the highest and then say Jesus and the holy spirit have equal power. Very confusing
They're equal in divinity and nature but different in terms of role. They all do have omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience. Consider this example, if i ask you who is greater u or let's say the khalif abu bakr. Isn't your answer gonna be abu bakr? Why? Because he was a leader and he contributed to the islamic nation much more than u did. But IS HE ANY MORE HUMAN THAN YOU ARE? No, he's greater than you in terms of role but he's just a human like you. Same thing goes to the trinitirian god heads. The father is greater than the son and the spirit in terms of role but is equal to them in terms of nature and divinity.
To put it in another example for you. Imagine the father to be the CEO of a company, so he's like the decision maker. The son is the lover of the father's decisions and operations, he also reciprocate the same love with the father (self love). And the holy spirit is like the worker who gets done and carry out the father's thought. So the three function get everything done in our existence. So, Thinking, loving the thoughts, insuring the thoughts are carried out.
We as CHRISTIANS believe that the trinity have always been there and has no beginning. Right they are 3 distinctive persons and are united in their functions and divinity. As joshua said God is necessisated in his nature." If God was not a trinity then the statement God is love would have no meaning" said C.S Lewis.
@@rlg6728 Father caused the son and holy ghost to exist which makes father the source of all creation.
Your analogies are totally invalid.
@@maquacr7014 i am sorry that my explanation is still inaccurate to you my dear brother. The three persons of the trinity have always existed from eternity past. The analogy used in the video was not to suggest that the father created the son and the spirit but, to show why was it necessary to be 3 distinctive persons work as one (unity). When we say the three are one. We don't suggest quantity. 1+1+1=1 is a very bad analogy. Number one suggests unity rather than quantity. E.g. the bible say when a man marries a woman they become one. In unity not 1+1=1. Same goes for the trinity persons. They are 3 but their functions and love are always united to get things done, maintain existence and life of creation. Dear brother, no matter how much we educate ourselves about god, we'll never be able to fully comprehend his nature, glory and essence whether in Christianity, islam or judaism.
Your question is the father the source of all creation, yes he is the thinker, the son is one who shares the father's love with creation, the spirit gets it done.
While you might be confused as to why god need to do that in the 1st place. Let me explain the difference between our god and allah (this a personal opinion and i mean no disrespect at all)
Allah cannot in his essence be love because in eternity past there was nothing for allah to love. He can only become loving once he created people so, his love is contagion upon his creation. Where's the Christian god for eternity past is loving within the community of the trinity. And is out of that love that the father have for the son that he creates people in the son's image to populate this world. That's why love is at the heart of mankind because we were made in the image of that triune god.
@@rlg6728 I agree we cannot comprehend God fully since our mind is limited, that's why you cannot assume anything about what it was like in the eternity past. We Muslims believe that God's knowledge is eternal as well - He always had the concept of creation in his mind so the point that God needs creation to show his attribute of love is invalid. An attribute is always present even if it isn't shown. Same is the case with wrath and mercy.
Eternity itself is the term formalized to explain something which can't be comprehended. Time itself is creation. And God is above all of His creation and isn't contingent on His creation in any way or form.
Also, we Muslims do not believe in the original sin. Adam and Eve were forgiven once they repented. God didn't throw them out of the heaven because of that sin. Rather, it was always His plan to create kingdom of man on Earth.
How was father's love shared with the creation before Jesus? Christians have to commit a lot of fallacies to prove their point. It takes a toll on your mind to defend something illogical as trinity.
It's good to see there are still some Christians who spread love. Peace and blessings be upon you, friend.
@@maquacr7014 just wanted to clarify something, the knowledge we use to describe the nature of God only comes from our ultimate guide the holy bible alone. We didn't invent this ideology. Some of you guys might argue "well bug the word trinity is not mentioned in the bible" .
You are right, neither is omnipresent and omnipotent and omniscient. But does that mean that God is neither of these attributed No of course. The trinity is mentioned indirectly in the bible more than once and there are many verses.
I think one question where his explanation from Joshua would fail is that if in his belief of trinitarian when god is all-mighty and all-powerfull means also the most powerfull and most mighty how can there be another divine entity who is equal in attributes. If there are for example more then one most powerfull then this entity cannot be most powerfull. It is contradicting. But he will get there inshallah he is making progress
Wait what’s the difference in tawheed in Islam and Judaism?
Judaism believes in an anthropomorphic version of God and the rabbis claim to be on the level of God in terms of authority. Whereas in Islam God is completely transcendent and unlike His creation
@@Hussainn27 thanks but i still dont fully understand cos , in Islam we kinda give God metaphorical like attributes like hands and whatever and Allah actually has them but its nothing comparable to humans. But how do Jews anthropomorphise God. -- (from wikipedia) ---> Both Judaism and Islam reject an anthropomorphic deity, believing that God is beyond human comprehension
PathToIslam I wouldn’t use Wikipedia as a source. The position of Ahlus sunnah is to not give Allah limbs or contingent parts like some of the salafis tend to do. Some of the Jews have been known to anthropomorphise God
Armaan Chowdhury I understand but , we don’t give God real limbs etc and the from what I’ve read the Jews do the same as what is written in the Quran uno so idrk
Yahchanan (John) 4:22 You do not know what you worship; we know what we worship, for salvation is from the Yahdaim.
as Dr Gary Miller said: explanation is not evidence.
One common thing among christians when explaining Trinity is:
1. They are full of explanations. some really are beautiful but never an evidence.
2. each christian has their unique version of Trinity. may God bless Ahmad Deedat as he beautifully sums this up
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In the Josh's trinitarian predicated Gods model, can he say the One True God Who he calls the father having the true God quality, what divine attributes/qualities/etc He is missing that the others, Jesus and Holy Ghost have so that Trinity is essential and needed and can't be avoided because God in monotheistic reality will be uncompleted, sham, not able to hold and will be a house of cards lacking any rigidity?