A not so short review of the hardest Arkansas Stones. Etsy Shop - www.etsy.com/shop/tomonagura Website - www.tomonagura.com FB - / tomonagura IG - / keithvjohnson
I’ve written at some length over at SRP between the difference between the translucent and surgical black from Dan’s. Their website language is inconsistent and confusing. According to both Dan and Steve, father and son, from a personal interview I had with them, there is no difference between black and translucent. The terms fine and ultra fine on their website are used for marketing purposes. You can find my interview under the name longhaultanker at SRP. Keith, you’re right on the mark.
Thank you for watching, commenting, and having done your homework too Leon. I've been relaying this info to those that will listen for a couple of decades now. It's been a 'long haul' for me too...see what I did there? lol. Happy Honing!
Your videos on Arkansas stones have been a breath of fresh air for me. I'm a beginner hobbyist woodworker (well, kind of a wood butcher as I stumble through this hobby) and settled on these stones because of their longevity, but got caught up on the grit numbers and other stuff like coloration rather than the results of sharpening. These videos on Arks are that big "how I learned to stopped worrying and love the novaculite" moment to really get me to say "screw it", work and get to know my two hard stones (a Dan's black purchased out of curiosity and an old all white, 1 inch thick Smith branded one in a wood box) rather than spend all day on my phone comparing and researching what would be/who sells the best stones.
Thank you for your no nonsense attitude about this subject...sharpening had always been a hobby of mine and its something that i find great pleasure in...a very zen filled experience... Anyway, just wanted to share my gratitude of your wisdom... You have definitely expanded my horizons and helped refine my technique...so again, thank you so very much
Been watching a video or two of yours daily lately. I *really* appreciate your shared time. I got bitten by the natural sharpening stone bug a handful of years ago now.
. Back in the early 60's I was training as a nurse and had to do a stint in the sterilising department during training where they had needles for the syringes and big bore needles for collecting bone marrow trephines and they were not disposable. After cleaning the needles you checked for burrs on cotton wool and if you found a burr you honed the flat on the tip then on the big needles you also touched up the bevel on the edges with the stillet in place inside the bore, it was done free hand on a1 " thick X 4 x 4" black stone.. I recall that the stone was referred to as a surgical black. The guy in charge checked every needle under a binocular microscope before they were packed and sterilised. Almost the dark ages compared to now.. All the best.
@ Rough Rooster, Actually, everything I wrote is correct. What's wrong is you claiming I do not like Dans. I like Dans a lot, they have great stones, great service, and I appreciate their dedication to the business. I've bench tested his ultra fine black against his translucent, the trans was a finer stone. So, there's that. BTW - the presence of the impuity that makes a black stone black is exactly the point. Apparently, you're a fan boy of a particular retailer, and because what I've written conflicts with their marketing copy, you're arguing with me. So we're done, I have no need to be engaged in battle with someone who's entire education comes from reading advertisements on someone else's retail website. The Geographical studies of Arkansas documented the particle sizes, and that the differences between grades of novaculite was due to density of silica, not particle size. If you need the data shown to you, enroll in a geology course. FWIW, there are other papers and studies too, some have different numbers but all show numbers larger than expected. I'm not here to do anyone's research, or spoon feed them data I worked my ass off to locate, cull, comb through, and digest. Have a nice day.
I see he went after you too. I ended up blocking him from my channel as well. He came over and said that I didn't know anything about Arkansas stones and that my stone was "nasty". I pretty much hit the block button afterward.
First clue he calls himself a rooster that says it all lol water off the back Keith no one works as hard as you to bring facts and opinions to the sharpening world and I appreciate it a lot cheers
Oh, sure, I'm a day late watching and I miss all of the excitement. (Or ignorance, as the case may be) Thanks for another great video filled with info, Keith! Looking forward to more videos when you have the time. Cheers! -Rob
Very educational. Thank you for explaining why specific gravity of a particular stone is not an objective measure of its quality for sharpening. I've been going back and forth over two hard Arks I got at a flea market trying to decide in what order or progression they should be used. I got around to calculating their volume and measuring their SG and what that told me is opposite of how they actually work. I thought I was just doing something wrong. You're the bomb. Now I have to watch all you other videos on here, damn it.
I appreciate your sharing your knowledge and stone collection. I'm coming at this question from a knife sharpening perspective but I guess it could apply to razors as well. In an Arkansas stone progression is it worth having a low end "hard" stone between a Soft and one of the upper tier hards like the black or translucent? I notice a lot of the suppliers offer a soft/black combo so I am thinking you don't gain much.
Only road to success is trial/error. Everyone has to try stuff to know what does and does not work for them. Can't form an opinon about a hypothetical stone in a hypothetical progression. Every stone is unique, and skill sets matter. Only way to know is to try it out.
Hey Keith. Very informative video as always. How do you "dress" a white translucent? I am not getting the best out of the stone and I suspect that it has to do with the way I dressed the stone. Thanks in advance.
Get a good straightedge to check flatness. Those stones do best when dead flat and they are usuallly way off. I flatten them with SIC in grits starting at 60x or 80x, then 120, 220, 400, 600. When every scratch from every grit before the 600x SIC is gone, I final lap on 600x w/d paper, then I may also polish on 1k w/d paper. I usually test the stone at 600x and again on 1k to see what's up. That's usually it. The other thing is, the edge you bring to that Ark needs to be beyond shave ready. A pure coticule edge might have a beven that's a bit too convex, so the type of edge you bring to the Ark matters too.
Keith, you have put a lot of thought and effort into this, and I like your presentation. I have a question. I have read that the "microcrystalline quartz particles" in these stones are actually the silica shells of dead diatoms. In primoridial earth, the diatom mutliplied in our oceans for millions of years without predators. Their shells collected and piled up on the ocean floor. Under the intense pressure perhaps miles deep and over a lot of years, these shells fused together in the process called sintering. (We make ceramics today by the same process, but it's more convenient to replace that pressure with high temperatures). So the main difference between the super dense stones and the regular soft stones is that these dense translucent/black stones were "cooked longer/deeper," before that particular part of the ocean floor got pushed up into a mountain through tectonic movements. Such as the mountain range where we get today's arkansas stones. What do you think?
@Mildly Productive With Arkansas' novaculite stones, the presence of silica from radiolarians and sponge spicules is both fact and theory. Theory in the sense that no one is 100% sure that 100% of the silica is from that one source, some feel that, in whole or in part, the silica precipitated from other materials during the process of lithification. Following the progress, the prolith began as rudimentary layers at the bottom of the ocean; through lithification, it converted into a a silica rich stone, which eventually became Chert. Then there was a low-grade metamorphic event, which recrystallized the chert into Novaculite - this event is important because the recrystallization yielded a stone void of any fiberous structure - such as what we see in Chalcedony. So, these Novaculite stones were sort of unique. Now - the difference in the grades of novaculite - soft through hard, are, likely, presumably, due to variations of exposure to heat and pressure. I do know that the silica in Chert is markedly finer than that in Novaculite; this speaks to the effects of Diagensis where that process increases the grain size in the types of stone progressing from shale through gneiss. However, the prolith matters, a lot. I have to suspect that the some of the earth's layers were possibly denser in certain materials, such as silica from diatom skeletons, and possibly other materials that produced silica. If one layer had a higher concentration of silica, it would/could possibly produce a harder finer stone. Maybe. Possibly. Geology is funny sometimes, we never know for sure for sure because none of us were actually there. The theories and science are constantly evolving. But yes, the main differences between the Arkansas stones we use for whetstones is their density of silica, and extended exposure to heat/pressure had to have a heavy hand in creating the finished product.
@@KeithVJohnson1 Wow! I was afraid at first when I saw all the fancy words. But you explained it in a completely logical way which I actually can understand and appreciate. You just increased my understanding of things in general. So, thanks a bunch for the detailed reply! There's so many peeps blowing smoke. I see one in your comments section I'm familiar with, myself. Kudos for your patience with these guys.
Burnishing... made me smile. If you flatten with anything fast it will need burnishing. Not to the point of being glazed. I have used drops of near 1 micron diamond to calm the tooth after flattening. Now if the stone glazes I use a tiny bit of very inexpensive diamond grit. Once a year, once in two years if it was needed. Not recommended... I just had some and tried it. Flattening of arks, they reflect the grit of the flattening tool.
The current mindset amongst the self-procoaimed 'experts' in the shaving game is that shiny-er is better, always. In their short-sighted mind a polished/glazed Ark just has to be best. Those guys get off on showing pix of their stones reflecting landscapes in the distance and whathaveyou. They never have no history with these stones, or any real clues about them, their geology, makeup, or correct application. Mostly, their concerns never get past social media applicaitons; YT videos, SOTD pix, and so on. Flash in the pan stuff - pretty stuff gets likes from newbs so it must be all good.... Yah, diamond grits can do a decent job surfacing, I stick to using w/d paper but I've also used loose grits of various types to achieve a 'correct' surface. For a while I was using a large Belgian Blue stone, which was pretty good actually.
I'd really like to one day have like 3-5 good oil stones, must say that I like the translucent ones for looks. But yeah idk seems in Europe, good or bad Arkansas stones are both very expensive :/
@@KeithVJohnson1 thanks for doing this Arkansas series, i bought that hard ark on your etsy shop cant wait to run my pocket knife on it and see how it compares to my Dan's hard ark
Not sure which one you picked up, there have been several Hard Arks in the store over the last 3-4 months and a whole bunch of them earlier in the year. But - I'm sure you scored welll because they were all winners. Thank you for watching, and picking up a stone at my Etsy store too!
The black ark I bought from natural whetstone company was dunston. It was my first black ark.Then I bought one from Dan's.Upon seeing the difference in the stones I did some research and found out about dunston stones.I sent Nat. Whetstone company an email asking about the product number and they confirmed that it was a dunston black. It was described as the real McCoy...BLACK NOVACULITE.The stone is actually not bad. It cuts pretty fast and polishes the metal.Not fine enough for a straight.Its not NOVACULITE. It was a lie.And I think if it's just a hard ark that happens to be black or a dunston....you shouldn't be able to use the word surgical in the description.Natural whetstone company describes the black ark they sell as giving a surgical quality edge.What gives a surgical edge.....a surgical black ark. Now I watch how stones are priced and described. Hopefully that will be my only rookie mistake.
Hi Clay - great comment, could you please return and edit it so I can keep it posted ? Several sentences are missing spaces after the period and they are being recognized by YT's system as hyperlinks.
When you say get your stones from a reputable seller would you suggest two or three of your top sellers? I’d like to get a couple of sources for stones. Thanks for the video.
Have you came across any black stones from Smith’s (vintage) that were of any real quality or comparable to what you consider to be a true surgical black with the patterning in it? Thanks
I have had good stones from Smiths, sure. I don't recall any that looked similar to my SB but that doesn't mean anything. I have had several stones that did have that type of patterning but they were much softer - so it's not so much about the pattern. It's not something to get caught up in IMO, it's just one of those things, there are plenty of good very hard blacks that are pure jet black without any mottling.
@@KeithVJohnson1 Yeah I’ve never been all that clear as to how the stones Smith’s used to produce stack up in comparison to other companies. I’ve generally passed on all of them due to my lack of familiarity. Thanks again
That's like asking...what American car would replace an Italian Ferrari or a German Porsche? Or, which McDonalds hamburger replaces a home-cooked meal? Any answer depends on one's point of view, skills with either and/or both sets of stones, tasks at hand, blades in question etc. It's really impossible to answer cleanly, it's an apples/oranges thing. A simple answer would be - for honing razors, a1k C is coarse. So - the soft Ark, which is the current coarsest Ark, will be the substitute. But after using the two stones side by side you might not think that was an accurate conclusion.
Almost anything is plausible when the skills are on-point. I've sold a ton of 4x2s to razor guys, no complaints. I have used them myself, even had a 3x2 for a short while. I prefer longer but whatever's clever.
There are translucent stones that are predominantly black but have various levels of translucency to them. Then there are so-called "black-translucent" stones sold on fleabay that are not translucent at all, but the sellers use the term because they want people to think they have the same specific gravity of true 'translucent' stones; which is often/sometimes/usually/etc not the case. The vintage Norton/Pike stones that are black/grey and let light through are in the top tier of things. Sometimes they are like a black/white trans combo.
Keith how do you like the 6X2X1” black stone? I have a 6X3X0.5” & I still have mixed feelings about the thickness. There’s something to be said about a thicker stone despite how slowly these wear over time...
So I wanted to pick up a 6X2 but I wound up getting a Council Tools Campers Axe (18” handle) instead. I need it for some overnighters up in the N. Georgia mountains this year. It has the Hudson Bay head design & I can’t wait to get my hands on it & give it a test drive at camp! I know I’m off topic but I would have liked to pick up the Ark as well...
Some nice stones. I have a black translucent from natural wet stones that works really nicely, but it’s a 10x3 and I’ve been thinking about something smaller. Like a 8x2. Maybe a not black but still translucent. 😁
I bought one of their 6x2x1 black trans arks several years ago. I absolutely love the stone...but it took some serious work to lap it flat. So I was a little concerned when I recently purchased one of their 8x3x1 reg black arks...that I was in for a weekend of sore shoulders and dry cracking skin on my hands. I was very pleasantly surprised that when the stone arrived it was nearly dead flat on both faces...all I had to do was polish them to my liking. So...it looks like Natural Whetstone has responded positively to the criticisms of the community and seem to be doing a much better job of finishing their products...all without raising their already reasonable prices. By the way...their reg black ark has been great...it has relegated my black trans ark to touch up and absolute final finish duty. Which is what I'd hoped, with the extra real estate, it would do.
So what is the difference between the surgical black and Dans jet black? Or us Dan's jet blacks actually surgical black, but only called ultra fine hard blacks?
Dan sells a hard black that is regular hard and the ultra-fine black that is more dense and in the same class as Translucent. They do not use the Surgical black term. When the term Surgical Black is used honestly, it is supposed to mean the stone is in the densest class. But some re-sellers use the term indiscriminately for any black Ark.
@@KeithVJohnson1 I hope so as well. I've been on the look out for another washita but they have become hard to find..... On top of that what I do find has had hard used, chipped/cracked/ or dished at ridiculous prices. I trust and know Dan's put out what is arguably the best quality arkansas stone, which i am basing off of experience. I have several that I have bought from either calling or their website. so I have high hopes that it will actually be a washita and not a soft. I guess I will find out in a week or so.
Hey Keith...nice Ark porn!!! I was recently scouring your video list looking for a vid on Arkansas Novaculite/Charnley Forest hones...that I swear I've watched prior. Was I just dreaming that such a vid exists? And if not...do you recall the title? Thanks.
So is Dans Ultra Fine considered a surgical Black? I just got a full set of his stones. Soft, Hard, Translucent and Black. I didn’t get the True Hard, but I’m sure I will at some point just to have it.
That's a nice Dan's black . Most of them now have a grey hue to them i don't care for those .. Imo the jet coal blacks are better, harder, finer, most of the time.
@@KeithVJohnson1 Was. That means she is gone!? Dan's are expensive but i think their products are great, i really don't have any other experiences with other quarry/mine. We rock hounds are nuts, paying these prices for these stones,lol ! But it's what we enjoy doing, so why not, life is short. Good razor stones are premium prices you get what you pay for.
I’ve written at some length over at SRP between the difference between the translucent and surgical black from Dan’s. Their website language is inconsistent and confusing. According to both Dan and Steve, father and son, from a personal interview I had with them, there is no difference between black and translucent. The terms fine and ultra fine on their website are used for marketing purposes. You can find my interview under the name longhaultanker at SRP. Keith, you’re right on the mark.
Thank you for watching, commenting, and having done your homework too Leon. I've been relaying this info to those that will listen for a couple of decades now. It's been a 'long haul' for me too...see what I did there? lol. Happy Honing!
@Longhaultanker is there a link for that interview?
Great stuff Leon!
Your videos on Arkansas stones have been a breath of fresh air for me. I'm a beginner hobbyist woodworker (well, kind of a wood butcher as I stumble through this hobby) and settled on these stones because of their longevity, but got caught up on the grit numbers and other stuff like coloration rather than the results of sharpening.
These videos on Arks are that big "how I learned to stopped worrying and love the novaculite" moment to really get me to say "screw it", work and get to know my two hard stones (a Dan's black purchased out of curiosity and an old all white, 1 inch thick Smith branded one in a wood box) rather than spend all day on my phone comparing and researching what would be/who sells the best stones.
Wow, you have the most wonderful Arks collection in the world... here in Italy I never found this wonderful American stones!
Thank you for your no nonsense attitude about this subject...sharpening had always been a hobby of mine and its something that i find great pleasure in...a very zen filled experience...
Anyway, just wanted to share my gratitude of your wisdom...
You have definitely expanded my horizons and helped refine my technique...so again, thank you so very much
Very cool comment, thank you for watching and sharing!
Been watching a video or two of yours daily lately. I *really* appreciate your shared time. I got bitten by the natural sharpening stone bug a handful of years ago now.
Cool - thank you for watching and commenting too! Happy Honing!
. Back in the early 60's I was training as a nurse and had to do a stint in the sterilising department during training where they had needles for the syringes and big bore needles for collecting bone marrow trephines and they were not disposable. After cleaning the needles you checked for burrs on cotton wool and if you found a burr you honed the flat on the tip then on the big needles you also touched up the bevel on the edges with the stillet in place inside the bore, it was done free hand on a1 " thick X 4 x 4" black stone.. I recall that the stone was referred to as a surgical black. The guy in charge checked every needle under a binocular microscope before they were packed and sterilised. Almost the dark ages compared to now.. All the best.
Thank you for watching and commenting too!
This has been very informative. Thank goodness for very knowledge people like you that are willing to share and the miracle of tube.
Great hearing that you like the content, thank you for watching and commenting! Happy Honing!
Great vid Keith love my arks beautiful display of stones true classic cheers
Thank you Johnny!
Just found your channel. Really enjoyed this video. Thanks!
Cool - you're welcome and thank you for watching and commenting !
Phenomenal information and great knowledge shared, thanks Keith
Hey Bob - great to see you in the comments! Thank you for watching!
Keith V. Johnson I always learn a tip or two and that’s the best part of straights and honing.
You have an amazing collection!!! Good video!!
Hi Kyle, thank you for watching and commenting!
Great video Keith!
Thank you very much Jason !
Thank you very much for the information..
You're very welcome and thank you for watching and commenting!
Thanks Keith. I really like my Arks.
Arks are great stones! Thank you for watching and commenting!
Very nicely done. You are a great resource and thank you for sharing, Steve
Thank you Steve!
I would be very interested in this modern Norton 8*3" if you ever want to get rid of it.
@ Rough Rooster, Actually, everything I wrote is correct. What's wrong is you claiming I do not like Dans. I like Dans a lot, they have great stones, great service, and I appreciate their dedication to the business. I've bench tested his ultra fine black against his translucent, the trans was a finer stone. So, there's that. BTW - the presence of the impuity that makes a black stone black is exactly the point.
Apparently, you're a fan boy of a particular retailer, and because what I've written conflicts with their marketing copy, you're arguing with me. So we're done, I have no need to be engaged in battle with someone who's entire education comes from reading advertisements on someone else's retail website. The Geographical studies of Arkansas documented the particle sizes, and that the differences between grades of novaculite was due to density of silica, not particle size. If you need the data shown to you, enroll in a geology course. FWIW, there are other papers and studies too, some have different numbers but all show numbers larger than expected. I'm not here to do anyone's research, or spoon feed them data I worked my ass off to locate, cull, comb through, and digest. Have a nice day.
I see he went after you too. I ended up blocking him from my channel as well. He came over and said that I didn't know anything about Arkansas stones and that my stone was "nasty". I pretty much hit the block button afterward.
Ah haha! I always thought that dude was obnoxious.
First clue he calls himself a rooster that says it all lol water off the back Keith no one works as hard as you to bring facts and opinions to the sharpening world and I appreciate it a lot cheers
Comment of the day !! Thanks Johnny!
@knife to the face. I’m inclined to agree
Oh, sure, I'm a day late watching and I miss all of the excitement. (Or ignorance, as the case may be)
Thanks for another great video filled with info, Keith! Looking forward to more videos when you have the time.
Cheers! -Rob
Lol, was just another arrogant keyboard bully with no social skills. Thank you for watching and commenting!
Very educational. Thank you for explaining why specific gravity of a particular stone is not an objective measure of its quality for sharpening. I've been going back and forth over two hard Arks I got at a flea market trying to decide in what order or progression they should be used. I got around to calculating their volume and measuring their SG and what that told me is opposite of how they actually work. I thought I was just doing something wrong. You're the bomb. Now I have to watch all you other videos on here, damn it.
Hi Larry, thank you for watching and commenting!
I appreciate your sharing your knowledge and stone collection. I'm coming at this question from a knife sharpening perspective but I guess it could apply to razors as well. In an Arkansas stone progression is it worth having a low end "hard" stone between a Soft and one of the upper tier hards like the black or translucent? I notice a lot of the suppliers offer a soft/black combo so I am thinking you don't gain much.
Only road to success is trial/error. Everyone has to try stuff to know what does and does not work for them. Can't form an opinon about a hypothetical stone in a hypothetical progression. Every stone is unique, and skill sets matter. Only way to know is to try it out.
love Ark's
Yah, me too - thank you for watching and commenting Gary!
What is the rubber base stone holder at 32:00?
Very interesting video.
Thank you for the pragmatic, no BS, and clearly presented information.
Thank you! - the stone holder is called a 'Gator Pad'.
Hey Keith. Very informative video as always. How do you "dress" a white translucent? I am not getting the best out of the stone and I suspect that it has to do with the way I dressed the stone. Thanks in advance.
Get a good straightedge to check flatness. Those stones do best when dead flat and they are usuallly way off. I flatten them with SIC in grits starting at 60x or 80x, then 120, 220, 400, 600. When every scratch from every grit before the 600x SIC is gone, I final lap on 600x w/d paper, then I may also polish on 1k w/d paper. I usually test the stone at 600x and again on 1k to see what's up. That's usually it. The other thing is, the edge you bring to that Ark needs to be beyond shave ready. A pure coticule edge might have a beven that's a bit too convex, so the type of edge you bring to the Ark matters too.
Keith, you have put a lot of thought and effort into this, and I like your presentation. I have a question. I have read that the "microcrystalline quartz particles" in these stones are actually the silica shells of dead diatoms. In primoridial earth, the diatom mutliplied in our oceans for millions of years without predators. Their shells collected and piled up on the ocean floor. Under the intense pressure perhaps miles deep and over a lot of years, these shells fused together in the process called sintering. (We make ceramics today by the same process, but it's more convenient to replace that pressure with high temperatures). So the main difference between the super dense stones and the regular soft stones is that these dense translucent/black stones were "cooked longer/deeper," before that particular part of the ocean floor got pushed up into a mountain through tectonic movements. Such as the mountain range where we get today's arkansas stones.
What do you think?
@Mildly Productive With Arkansas' novaculite stones, the presence of silica from radiolarians and sponge spicules is both fact and theory. Theory in the sense that no one is 100% sure that 100% of the silica is from that one source, some feel that, in whole or in part, the silica precipitated from other materials during the process of lithification. Following the progress, the prolith began as rudimentary layers at the bottom of the ocean; through lithification, it converted into a a silica rich stone, which eventually became Chert. Then there was a low-grade metamorphic event, which recrystallized the chert into Novaculite - this event is important because the recrystallization yielded a stone void of any fiberous structure - such as what we see in Chalcedony.
So, these Novaculite stones were sort of unique. Now - the difference in the grades of novaculite - soft through hard, are, likely, presumably, due to variations of exposure to heat and pressure. I do know that the silica in Chert is markedly finer than that in Novaculite; this speaks to the effects of Diagensis where that process increases the grain size in the types of stone progressing from shale through gneiss.
However, the prolith matters, a lot. I have to suspect that the some of the earth's layers were possibly denser in certain materials, such as silica from diatom skeletons, and possibly other materials that produced silica. If one layer had a higher concentration of silica, it would/could possibly produce a harder finer stone. Maybe. Possibly. Geology is funny sometimes, we never know for sure for sure because none of us were actually there. The theories and science are constantly evolving.
But yes, the main differences between the Arkansas stones we use for whetstones is their density of silica, and extended exposure to heat/pressure had to have a heavy hand in creating the finished product.
@@KeithVJohnson1 Wow! I was afraid at first when I saw all the fancy words. But you explained it in a completely logical way which I actually can understand and appreciate. You just increased my understanding of things in general. So, thanks a bunch for the detailed reply! There's so many peeps blowing smoke. I see one in your comments section I'm familiar with, myself. Kudos for your patience with these guys.
@@mildyproductive9726 I am glad that my missive was a little helpful. Thank you for watching and commenting.
Burnishing... made me smile. If you flatten with anything fast it will need burnishing.
Not to the point of being glazed. I have used drops of near 1 micron diamond to calm the tooth after flattening.
Now if the stone glazes I use a tiny bit of very inexpensive diamond grit. Once a year, once in two years if it was
needed. Not recommended... I just had some and tried it. Flattening of arks, they reflect the grit of the flattening tool.
The current mindset amongst the self-procoaimed 'experts' in the shaving game is that shiny-er is better, always. In their short-sighted mind a polished/glazed Ark just has to be best. Those guys get off on showing pix of their stones reflecting landscapes in the distance and whathaveyou. They never have no history with these stones, or any real clues about them, their geology, makeup, or correct application. Mostly, their concerns never get past social media applicaitons; YT videos, SOTD pix, and so on. Flash in the pan stuff - pretty stuff gets likes from newbs so it must be all good....
Yah, diamond grits can do a decent job surfacing, I stick to using w/d paper but I've also used loose grits of various types to achieve a 'correct' surface. For a while I was using a large Belgian Blue stone, which was pretty good actually.
I'd really like to one day have like 3-5 good oil stones, must say that I like the translucent ones for looks.
But yeah idk seems in Europe, good or bad Arkansas stones are both very expensive :/
A good charnley forest is basically the same thing.
wow you've got some of the coolest looking arks ive ever seen. if i had some like that id keep them just to look at 'em
Some Arks are absolutely gorgeous. Thank uou for watching and commenting!
@@KeithVJohnson1 thanks for doing this Arkansas series, i bought that hard ark on your etsy shop cant wait to run my pocket knife on it and see how it compares to my Dan's hard ark
Not sure which one you picked up, there have been several Hard Arks in the store over the last 3-4 months and a whole bunch of them earlier in the year. But - I'm sure you scored welll because they were all winners. Thank you for watching, and picking up a stone at my Etsy store too!
Could I send you photos of my arks and have you identify them? I suspect I have a butterscotch pocket stone. Are arks safe to soak in acetone
Hi, I do not offer a stone ID service. I never used Acetone on a stone.
The black ark I bought from natural whetstone company was dunston. It was my first black ark.Then I bought one from Dan's.Upon seeing the difference in the stones I did some research and found out about dunston stones.I sent Nat. Whetstone company an email asking about the product number and they confirmed that it was a dunston black. It was described as the real McCoy...BLACK NOVACULITE.The stone is actually not bad. It cuts pretty fast and polishes the metal.Not fine enough for a straight.Its not NOVACULITE. It was a lie.And I think if it's just a hard ark that happens to be black or a dunston....you shouldn't be able to use the word surgical in the description.Natural whetstone company describes the black ark they sell as giving a surgical quality edge.What gives a surgical edge.....a surgical black ark. Now I watch how stones are priced and described. Hopefully that will be my only rookie mistake.
Hi Clay - great comment, could you please return and edit it so I can keep it posted ? Several sentences are missing spaces after the period and they are being recognized by YT's system as hyperlinks.
@@KeithVJohnson1 Sorry. Wanted to say that your video have been very helpful. Thanks alot
When you say get your stones from a reputable seller would you suggest two or three of your top sellers? I’d like to get a couple of sources for stones. Thanks for the video.
Preyda and Dan’s are solid sellers.
Thanks Keith for quick reply. 👍🏻
Have you came across any black stones from Smith’s (vintage) that were of any real quality or comparable to what you consider to be a true surgical black with the patterning in it? Thanks
I have had good stones from Smiths, sure. I don't recall any that looked similar to my SB but that doesn't mean anything. I have had several stones that did have that type of patterning but they were much softer - so it's not so much about the pattern. It's not something to get caught up in IMO, it's just one of those things, there are plenty of good very hard blacks that are pure jet black without any mottling.
@@KeithVJohnson1 Yeah I’ve never been all that clear as to how the stones Smith’s used to produce stack up in comparison to other companies. I’ve generally passed on all of them due to my lack of familiarity. Thanks again
Question? Which Arkansas stone would replace the chosera 1000k and 3000k. Im new to honing.
That's like asking...what American car would replace an Italian Ferrari or a German Porsche? Or, which McDonalds hamburger replaces a home-cooked meal?
Any answer depends on one's point of view, skills with either and/or both sets of stones, tasks at hand, blades in question etc. It's really impossible to answer cleanly, it's an apples/oranges thing.
A simple answer would be - for honing razors, a1k C is coarse. So - the soft Ark, which is the current coarsest Ark, will be the substitute. But after using the two stones side by side you might not think that was an accurate conclusion.
Can anyone tell me what a Smith's xab-8 black is? I think it's early eighties.. thanks
Try contacting Smith's directly.
So is the 4x2x1” size plausible for razors? I like the black one you’re showing from Hall’s in this video. Thanks
Almost anything is plausible when the skills are on-point. I've sold a ton of 4x2s to razor guys, no complaints. I have used them myself, even had a 3x2 for a short while. I prefer longer but whatever's clever.
Sounds good. I just spotted one someone is calling a black translucent for a very good price. Not sure if black translucent is a real thing though...
There are translucent stones that are predominantly black but have various levels of translucency to them. Then there are so-called "black-translucent" stones sold on fleabay that are not translucent at all, but the sellers use the term because they want people to think they have the same specific gravity of true 'translucent' stones; which is often/sometimes/usually/etc not the case. The vintage Norton/Pike stones that are black/grey and let light through are in the top tier of things. Sometimes they are like a black/white trans combo.
Ok thanks for the clarification. Never can be too careful....
Keith how do you like the 6X2X1” black stone? I have a 6X3X0.5” & I still have mixed feelings about the thickness. There’s something to be said about a thicker stone despite how slowly these wear over time...
I would normally choose a 1” thickness. But the 1/2” stone is fine, esp if I want to travel with it.
So I wanted to pick up a 6X2 but I wound up getting a Council Tools Campers Axe (18” handle) instead. I need it for some overnighters up in the N. Georgia mountains this year. It has the Hudson Bay head design & I can’t wait to get my hands on it & give it a test drive at camp! I know I’m off topic but I would have liked to pick up the Ark as well...
Thanks for reminding me, I have a vintage 2.5 lb head I need to get on a new haft. Another overdue project.
Some nice stones. I have a black translucent from natural wet stones that works really nicely, but it’s a 10x3 and I’ve been thinking about something smaller. Like a 8x2. Maybe a not black but still translucent. 😁
Knife to the Face 10x3 is a bear to lap. I think 8x2 is a great size.
I bought one of their 6x2x1 black trans arks several years ago. I absolutely love the stone...but it took some serious work to lap it flat. So I was a little concerned when I recently purchased one of their 8x3x1 reg black arks...that I was in for a weekend of sore shoulders and dry cracking skin on my hands. I was very pleasantly surprised that when the stone arrived it was nearly dead flat on both faces...all I had to do was polish them to my liking. So...it looks like Natural Whetstone has responded positively to the criticisms of the community and seem to be doing a much better job of finishing their products...all without raising their already reasonable prices. By the way...their reg black ark has been great...it has relegated my black trans ark to touch up and absolute final finish duty. Which is what I'd hoped, with the extra real estate, it would do.
MASTER deBATER. Thanks for that input. I’m seriously considering going back to them.
So what is the difference between the surgical black and Dans jet black? Or us Dan's jet blacks actually surgical black, but only called ultra fine hard blacks?
Dan sells a hard black that is regular hard and the ultra-fine black that is more dense and in the same class as Translucent. They do not use the Surgical black term. When the term Surgical Black is used honestly, it is supposed to mean the stone is in the densest class. But some re-sellers use the term indiscriminately for any black Ark.
I just ordered a washita from Dan's, im interested to see what i end up with
Hopefully you get a good one !
@@KeithVJohnson1 I hope so as well. I've been on the look out for another washita but they have become hard to find..... On top of that what I do find has had hard used, chipped/cracked/ or dished at ridiculous prices. I trust and know Dan's put out what is arguably the best quality arkansas stone, which i am basing off of experience. I have several that I have bought from either calling or their website. so I have high hopes that it will actually be a washita and not a soft. I guess I will find out in a week or so.
@@SortoMario89 Let us know how it goes!
@@garretti2185 will do boss, still waiting on it to ship out.
That gold dollar Is getting more air time than the Penguins!
That’s a newer G/D, had to throw the old one out.
I wish it was summer lol
Took me a long time to publish this one!
Hey Keith...nice Ark porn!!! I was recently scouring your video list looking for a vid on Arkansas Novaculite/Charnley Forest hones...that I swear I've watched prior. Was I just dreaming that such a vid exists? And if not...do you recall the title? Thanks.
Good memory. There is a vid with a Charn and a Llyn in it. I can’t remember which one though, so it’s probably a Vlog.
@@KeithVJohnson1: Ok thanks...now that I know it actually exists...I'll keep looking. ; )
@@Master...deBater Cool... good luck! @bu jammy might remember which video ist was...
So is Dans Ultra Fine considered a surgical Black? I just got a full set of his stones. Soft, Hard, Translucent and Black. I didn’t get the True Hard, but I’m sure I will at some point just to have it.
I wouldn't worry about the marketing lingo, just use it and learn it and be happy with it.
nice butterscotch stone that remind me of plastic :p
They do get a waxy look to them.
That's a nice Dan's black . Most of them now have a grey hue to them i don't care for those .. Imo the jet coal blacks are better, harder, finer, most of the time.
That stone had a blue/grey look, doesn't show under the LED lights though. Was a very good stone.
@@KeithVJohnson1 Was. That means she is gone!? Dan's are expensive but i think their products are great, i really don't have any other experiences with other quarry/mine. We rock hounds are nuts, paying these prices for these stones,lol ! But it's what we enjoy doing, so why not, life is short. Good razor stones are premium prices you get what you pay for.
@@michaelshults7675 Yep, that one sold long ago.
Why don’t you like 8 by 3 by half’s?
I prefer the density and isolation that only thicker heavier stones provide.
Ничего не понял, но было интересно.
Вы можете настроить субтитры для перевода с английского на русский.
@@KeithVJohnson1 Спасибо за совет, но лучше слушать, чем читать на экране, текстовый перевод не всегда бывает корректен и мешает обзору на экране.
@@user-dj8ed3yi2z
Правда, даже в этом случае понимать что-то лучше, чем ничего не понимать.
@@KeithVJohnson1 Что то понимать, это всё равно что догадываться. А вдруг не угадал?)))