HOW MODERN HORIZONS III IMPACTED cEDH
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- Dylan and Cam talk about some cards they should have mentioned in the 2 Part Modern Horizons Set Review and discuss how the set is impacting cEDH so far.
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In my second game with Nadu in paper I made 4,194,304 scutes.
That's a lot of chickens
@kylehill do you run the Retreat to Coralhelm/Simic Growth Chamber/Walking Atlas combo in your Nadu deck?
That's a lot of dice.
KYLE??
@@zadokaspinall3752 sup daddy
My favorite thing about this channel is how accessible you guys depict cEDH. Most players, myself included, tend to think cEDH is too complicated when compared to casual. So when you guys say things like "playing good cards is better than playing bad cards" it fills me with hope 😂❤
The main difference between cedh and casual is speed, number of cards devoted to interaction, and hard wincons. So stacks can get really deep in cedh .
Honestly? Call this is hot take but cedh is more of a mindset more then anything else... it is a place where anything (within the set ban list is allowed) yes there are tournaments and you can even tier out commanders and all that sure... but at the end of the day it's more of we are all here playing to win the game by any means nessasary more then battle cruiser no interaction mtg... you can truly build just about any commander to being a cedh deck... with the card pool being so wide it is absolutely possible to do at this point... again I feel like it is more of a mindset then it is all about some predetermined tier list of decks and commanders...
@d43m0n412 It's refreshing to be honest. I'll always love Casual Commander but compared to cEDH it's just... messy. Misunderstandings and salt everywhere, huge discrepancies in playstyles, and too rewarding to wealthier players (sanctioned cEDH is also like this but my understanding is outside of that the vast majority of cEDH players allow and even encourage proxies). Compared to Casual, cEDH just feels so clean and straightforward. I really wish I could find a local playgroup to give it a try
"Nadu is weak to Selesnya"
*Eyes my Sythis deck with Collector Ouphe and Stony Silence*
Bestowing the Springheart Nantuko can be a way to get a Nadu trigger, AND protect the token generation from an Orcish Bowmasters. You don't have to pay the 2 for the copy ever.
I came here to say this, I think the bestow cost being the same as the CMC is a good reason to use it as an aura. You still get the token, I guess the downside is it's not a creature to target with your other spells.
and if you pay the two you can refresh your commander and the Nantuko just drops off keeping it as a creature. I would actually always bestow it on Nadu
Same idea, went looking to make sure someone didnt already say it
Cam. Nantuko makes a 1/1 when attached to something even if don't copy the creature. When you bestow it it targets. You can clone nadu for 1G and refresh all your triggers and Nantuko will fall off of the old nadu for 2 additional triggers. BESTOW IT
on the Nadu, bestowing springheart nantuko on either lotus cobra/tireles provisioner actually ends up self fueling itself once u pay the 1st trigger, paying any triggers after that starts netting mana on ur activations & paying for multiple future activations, it's actually strong af
You could also use the copy trigger to reset your Nadu if you bestowed on Nadu so you can continue the chain
@@kennethritacco6959But that would only be a one time thing, because you would have to put the non token Nadu into the GY and the nantuko becomes a creatute as a state based action, but you do get potentially a lot of triggers again.
You put the non-token in the command zone you reset all your triggers and then once you run out of triggers you can replay commander nadu with all the mana that you get@@robertleeshinkle8446
Nantuko is sick
@@Mulletdog1 yes it is lol
With the ocelot pride you have to make sure to gain life in order for it's trigger to happen
2nd
3rd
For the first part, but the second part only cares about the city's blessing no?
@TenousPlan "if you gained life this turn" will not trigger the ability if you haven't gained life. Any of the ability.
I was the Dihada player! It was a good time playing with you two, I'm glad my notes on Necrodominance made it into the video. I lost last time, but hopefully I'll get another shot one day.
great, wanted to ask in the discord who it was ;) perfect evaluation. unplayable card. Have fun playing the tentacle lady
shunko, flinthorn elves
cam word goodj
That write
@@PlaytoWinMTGhe forgot to add chunky lol
@@stormtrooperjeepjk chunky is what he calls etali, lol. Pretty sure that's intentional.
@@cobaltbeau flinthorn is intentional too
you need to gain life for Ocelot's triggered ability. the whole thing. not just making the cat
Thats very easy in rin and seris activated ability
@@thunderclap420 okay but this is a CEDH podcast and that's not a CEDH commander.
My point is that they mentioned a bunch of popular CEDH commanders that make tokens but none of those decks gain life. And you can't rely on getting in with a 1/1 and then having it live through combat to trigger the ability. Especially when you have to have 10 permenants first so it's not like ragavan were you can sneak it in on the first couple turns
@@ironjawedangels2812 you are correct on that one.
I think the reason for mishra's factory over mutavault or inkmoth nexus in Nadu is because the factory can target itself. First turn it into a creature, then tap it to give target assembly worker +1/+1.
Yeah exactly
I played ocelot pride turn one in my Naya deck, turn three I got out Roxanne with haste and made four meteorites on turn 3, forcing the Nadu player with their Sylvan safekeeper to sac all their lands and still killing all their creatures by turn four
Ocelot pride also seems amazing in a lot of aggressive stax decks like Winota and Jetmir. I know those decks aren't top tier right now, but this is still an absurd card in them. It is such a good early play for those decks because it puts a lot of tokens on the battlefield for only one mana. It is a first striker, so it gets past a lot of t1 and t2 blockers who would try and stop it.
For Winota, this is probably the best way to put a lot of non-human attackers on the battlefield for just one mana. This thing snowballs so fast it is absurd. And for Jetmir, it is less explosive, but building up towards 8 creatures suddenly becomes a lot easier when you have a one drop that is almost guaranteed to make 1-2 additional bodies. I think this card is very good, and powers up some specific decks a lot
its nice in ellievere as well as you get to copy roles
Absolutely, I could even see some Tymna lists running this as an early attacker that consistently makes more attackers to trigger Tymna. In Winota though, absolutely nuts.
Really enjoy this one! Just waiting for the part 34 of: Cards from MH3 that we think we like... Maybe...
lol maybe it'll be a weekly segment
Original necro also is an exile trigger and not a replacement effect. So if you’re under borne upon a wind you can respond to every exile trigger while the discarded cards are still in your graveyard
Another thing with Unstable amulet it does damage when cast from anywhere except your hand so Dargo decks can use it as a killcon same with food chain and breach decks
Also to note about springheart nantuko if you bestow it under a hexproof creature like some of the 2 mv mana dorks it becomes super hard to remove traditionally
I agree with Dylan on surveil lands. All my friends love them but for me, while some games it would be nice to have the option if I don't need the mana, I live in fear of the possiblity of a good hand/tempo play being ruined by a tapped land
Been getting more into cedh and out of standard this has become my favorite pod!
I kinda really like the jeskai precon commander, Satya, aetherflux genius. I dont think it's CEDH necessarily, but with minimum build around, it is extremely good. It is jeskai, obviously, so you can play intuition breach lines. It has some really good lines with the recruiters, with dockside and barrin or dualcaster. I think there are even one card infinites with combat celebrant (stack the attack trigger where the Satya resolves before combat celebrant resolves). Plus, there are a lot of valuable 2 drop stax or tax pieces that would love to have permanent copies of, i.e., ledger shredder, faerie mastermind, drannith, archivist, party thrasher, dockside. Feels at least high power to me.
Interesting thought with the bounce land and Nadu - Nadu putting a land into play is mandatory so there’s likely times you could be stuck with a Boseiju or Otawara on field when you want it in hand, getting the channel land back to hand with the bounce land could be good.
Don’t think it’s actually worth running but another point for when you were talking about the bounce lands
My main takeaway is that Veggiewagon is great in the meta.
31:29 9 cards, in the end step before you untap you can use your last aphetto alchemist tap to target Nadu, and get a 9th card
What i love about Nadu if you build it this way is the Target Nadu with removal and its like ok do i flip a forest for my Tamiyo's Safekeeping or do i flip Talon Gates of Madara and phase out Nadu.. I like alot of one mana protection spells because it makes removal on Nadu so fun and Chaotic..
Fun for the pilot but no one likes 25 minute undeterminstic turns
@@eriklarson6362 oh yea I agree but that’s why I only play Nadu if my group is playing a higher level game..
“Shunko” kills me every time 😂
For testing cards, just set it to the side, sbuffle the deck, toss it in the top 10 cards or in your starting hand. This way the card can be tested in opening versus after mana ramp / initial openings and interactions. Should save you a ton of games.
For my question, getting back into Magic and trying to learn how to be more competive, how do you increase opening hand consistency? Either drawing 2 lands then no lands for the next 10 cards, etc or 5 land hands then never draw an engine to draw out of it. Etc. Is it just tuning and hoping because I feel like my decks are close. Thanks for the content!
notably what Mishra's foundry has over mutavault is the fact that like you said, it can tap itself to target an assembly worker, meaning it can choose itself and give you a trigger for Nadu
Waterlogged Grove can also get creatures like Endurance, Opposition Agent, Bow Masters, etc. Not too sure if that offsets the mana cost, as I'm newer to CEDH, but it is definitely become one of my favorites.
Guys the ocelot pride works so well with dockside, you play dockside and double your treasure that turn is a giant step ahead form me
Before even watching the episode the thumbnail gives me a good vibe for how this is going to go.
Unstable Amulet in Dr Madison Li. When I have artifacts cost 1 less which I do most games I can cast sensei’s divining top of library with mystic forge. Can deal 1 to each opponent until I deck myself.
To me if anything waterlogged teachings goes into talion, as it gets your hullbreaker + any control u need for the board/ can pitch to force or be a land at worst.
12:40 i don’t know about wanting spring heart in etali. Isn’t the final option of “oh snap im out of options” for you just to turn it over on its infect side ?
Unstable amulet would be a good fit in elsha as well? It's a win with with sensei combo and if you don't have senseis top you can get rid of the top of your library and still play and cast it? Is it worth it? What's your opinion?
i love how unstable amulet is a callback to juweled amulet, a card i played aeons ago in jhoira
I was today years old when i noticed the berserk volumes behind Dylan
Where can I find your nadu deck list I watched you play it and pit my zevlor cedh deck on a shelf cause this is just dumb and like you both said it's very complicated to figure out and how do you feel about rotoriest and ivy as additional wincons I guess too new to figure out it's true potential thanks again love the show. My play groups hate me cause now every deck is way to powerful gor casual games cause I play to win live you guys
Love the shirt you're wearing Cam, awesome to see another rollercoaster enthusiast in the mtg community
If there's that one guy in your LGS or playgroup that still plays Eldrazi Titans against brainfreeze loops, the Amulet can help you mow them down instead.
Argument for Simic Growth Chamber in Nadu is being able to to bounce back an Boseiju or Otawara that was put into play
Springheart bestow is useful when you need to make a clone of Nadu to reset the combo.
Sisay being able to tutor Necrodominance seems good too.
38:34 they had to hard cut to Dylan's "hmmm?" Because they laughed at *shunko* I think.
I love them so much.
Dylan, if you want to go more turbo and put Atraxa away do the Dihada way! It doesnt always have to be RogSi. Deck had some good additions lately, we are brewing all the time and it fits a slower Meta really well. Also what is not to love about answering Nadu with a lovely Out of Time. -.-
Definitely seems like MH3 really has shaken up the format and letting people try new things, especially with nadu making such a huge splash by himself
With the new standard rotation coming up, I'd love to see some post rotation decks you guys would want to play. You've discussed playing other formats on the show, but I'm not sure how interested you are in the upcoming standard meta shift.
Waterlogged teachings can also fetch oppo agent, bowmasters, etc.
Is there a good discord for cEDH? Looking for somewhere to get in spelltable games and discuss cEDH
I still think the Simic Growth Chamber/Retreat to Coralhelm/Walking Atlas line could be playable in Nadu. I know we don't like three card combos but it triggers Nadu itself and allows you to go absolutely nutty with any Landfall creatures.
Nadu notably gets hit by rending volley. Just another creature that gets blown out by a 1 mana removal spell that can’t be countered
That dimir land/spell could also get you dress down or other things similar that shut down other people’s wins
I'm looking forward to Shunko Pop! Figures.
I’m on big daddy instead of Ob Nix, definitely get your points but this deck just feels sooooo good, I know you played Joes original list but I’d give it another go on the channel in its current form
I want to see nadu deck after nadu deck in every event. I want every top 8 entry to be nothing but nadu. I want constructed players to build nadu breakfast, nadu ponza, nadu taxes, nadu zoo, nadu stompy- you name it, the bird is in it.
It's the only way to ensure the dudu's *banning*.
I play a zero artifact build shut down artifacts it's really awesome. Thalia gitrog you also get titania song so under rated.
Would Powerbalance be good in a Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain
As interesting as it would be for stax to make a comeback it seems like nadu comes down so fast and as talked about earlier its resilient so I don't know how stax could win the race. Other than yasharn idk who you'd play, dranna and linvala stops some of nadu's creatures but then you lost the green for collecter ouphe
31:29 9 cards since the last untap can target another card for a last Nadu trigger
as for new cards flare of duplication has been absurd especially when combined beseech the mirror.
Bestow spring heart on nadu to "reset" nadu with a clone. Also betow on a clone to do similar things.
I like the thought of powerbalance with scroll rack. Being able to activate in response to put something from your hand on top to guarantee a hit. Also is scroll rack a good enough cedh card in most decks or is it very specific decks only?
I'd say specific decks tbh
I used it as a backup plan to prevent decking myself when I was drawing an exponential amount of cards. It's probably a little better now to get around smothering tithe and bowmaster, but i can't see a lot of decks playing scroll rack over a card that would help them win faster
Scroll rack is good in any serious Ad Naus/Necro list. Any other evaluation is underestimating it.
As for its synergy with Powerbalance, thats not why you'd include it, its just incidental value.
Ad naus for 20 cards? Scroll rack can pseudo-double that for ONE mana. Yes, its very very powerful.
The Ocelot Pride seems good with Dockside
somehow horobi, death's wail is now a hatebear
New tech and also helps stop cyc rift ashaya and magus of the candalabra with nadu
You can bestow on opponent's creatures right? Landfall get a dockside seems strong
If this works.....it seems like cool tech?
Doesn't work. Nantuko specifically says "a creature you control "
Non cedh but ive been using nantuko bestow after usin Iron viles duplication to make a non legendary copy. Typically win from there
I always wonder why no running The enchant spelunking in nadu deck which fix tapped land issue plus you get play additional land possible gain 4 life for caves
While it may not be cedh level, unstable amulet does allow ob nixilis to play as more of a storm deck with wheels and rituals. Tutor up the amulet and go nuts
I’m convinced Imskir just got overshadowed.
Dockside & Chthonian Nightmare have a valid claim to being rakdos’ strongest, fastest, best, combo. Imskir is the best legend in rakdos colors to make use of this combo. Ob nixilis, the card, cannot utilize this combo and requires the 99 to produce a finisher. Rakdos himself can use this combo, but really only as a finisher. By sacrificing dockside to rakdos(exiling the top 2 of an opponents deck) then rakdos to nightmare, (bringing back dockside and sending Rakdos to the command zone), cast nightmare & rakdos again(from your infinite treasures), and you wind up with all three on board ready to repeat the loop and exile your opponents decks. Rakdos, the muscle, still has to rely on the 99 to get non-finisher value out of nightmare. Outside of being a combo piece, nightmare is a dead card in Rakdos, The Muscle, decks.
Imskir can utilize the combo as a finisher by making treasures = (life total-5)*2, and then drawing (life total-5) cards. I am confident that any still reading would agree that Infinite mana & thirty cards in your hand ends the game. There may not be a spell or ability on the stack that says “i win the game” after resolving your commander, but it’s understood to be close enough. What sets Imskir apart from Rakdos is that, aside from stapling card draw on to dockside(dockside isn’t in need of another reason to run him) Chthonian Nightmare is not a dead card in Imskir. Imskir loves being sacrificed. Just having the ability to sacrifice Imskir alongside Imskir’s built in affinity for artifacts just means that you’ll be able to cast imskir again with little to no difficulty. Imskir then hits the board and refills your hand. Chthonian nightmare is not a dead card in Imskir. Molten duplication & twinflame have a similar level of card draw stapled on to them, turning them into very exciting draws. Im so hungry for sac outlets in imskir that im even on liquimetal torque(to sac imskir to himself, dealing 8 damage and making him recastable from the command zone, its a strong play pattern. And dont even get me started on Burnt Offering, getting burnt offering off feels like resolving sea kings blessing, the mana doesnt last longer than the phase youre in, sure, but its a lot of card draw and mana off of a 1 mana spell. It also, alongside sacrifice, turns that 2mv Imskir you just played into 8 mana for your hoarding broodlord, bloas’s citadel, and your PitA.
Furthermore, given Imskir’s predisposition towards having a high artifact count(37ish) you get to include many of the artifact packages the other Rakdos decks lack. KCI and adjacent combos now have an outlet in the command zone. Underworld breach lines (with grinding station & a mox amber/opal) become valid wincons that interact positively with other cards we’re using for value(like Saheeli’s lattice can fill the graveyard and your hand once we have a little extra mana & brass’s tunnel grinder does the same). You can very nearly plug and play the same kci package Sam Black brought to cedh with their jhoira article back in may of last year. KCI is a resilient & unique package that, by running Imskir as opposed to the other Rakdos legends, you now have access to. Not to mention Fomori Vault reads discard 1, look at the top 8 and pick one.
The opportunity cost isn’t unnoticeable, but it’s also not terrible. Youre cutting the 15 worst black cards and the 10 worst red cards for artifacts 13 through 37. The 20 best black cards and 20 best red cards will still do the job.
The only crime Imskir committed was being released alongside Nadu.
www.moxfield.com/decks/c9Iw78COL0ieVqd4kCnwbA
Very rarely wins t1(requires being late in the turn order, and a high dockside count, obviously), can win on t2(but youre more often looking to cast imskir and draw 3), often presents wins on t3 or sets up a threatening board state and refills your hand for multiple, protected(as much as Rakdos colors can protect) wins on t4. A t5 or greater win either means i played into the odds of drawing X(needing 1 land by t2/in the first 3-4 draws of the game) and didnt(im on 30 lands, so i should, statistically, hit a land by then, and often play into those odds, if the rest of the hand is good)(it usually is). Or it means I misread a card and forgot, like, reanimating imskir eats 8 of my life and with the amount of artifacts on board & the ensuing etb would kill me, so i need to change plans, manually assemble and tutor for a combo instead of drawing into one.
The deck asks you to mulligan aggressively and mulligan well. I almost always take the first mulligan and i most commonly see 21 cards before keeping a hand. The deck /can/ mulligan to like, 4 and win the next turn. 5 is also fine, but you’re mulliganing for an engine outside of imskir when youre that low.
how come nobody has noticed with nadu that the untap creatures (like seeker of skybreak) are also able to target another creature for a 3rd nadu trigger per turn but only on the turn before its ur turn (since you dont care if its tapped going into ur turn). psh im a genius
13:20 Dylan holding a plain white cup seems strange. I expected something 'louder'!
If shifting woodlands becomes birthing pod and then you flicker it with felidar Guardian, doesn't it become a land again?
I’m guessing that shattered angel and polluted bonds are far too expensive in Cedh to be good tech against Nadu. I had them both out recently along with a sanguine bond in a cuasual pod and against a land deck I almost took out the table…
Unstable Amulet is great in Dargo-Silas
Hey guys, just a heads up it's pronounced 'thonian, not 'k-thonian. Check websters if you disagreeeee.
Winota loves ocelot pride
I like how Cam keeps calling Shuko shuNko.
Khalni Garden as a land in Nadu?
I have it in mine. But mines less optomized. But I think 100% it's good. It's a free creature. Can't hate on that. I almost had ornithopter and memnite in there solely for free creatures. So that definitely filled that role
CAM IS ON THE NADU TRAIN!!!!
YES!!!!
SHOW ME MORE GAMES!!!😃😃
Ocelots pride you DO have to gain life in order to get the tokens once you have the city's blessing sooooooo
With Nadu popularity will come cursed totem auto-includes and a more stax-ey meta.
I have some secret sauce for this creature heavy midrange meta
Humility decks.
Facts
I’ve had an opponent use it to go get a Faerie Mastermind……
You should call this style of episode "The cEDH State of the Union"
Confounding Conundrum vs Nadu
Is Six now seeing enough play to warrant a mention? I thought that card felt like another underworld breach in ad nauseam decks
what about unstable amulet in food chain decks? make infinite mana, and kill everyone?
or the token cat in dockside decks?
Nadu gets hit by Null Rod effects (criminally underplayed), stopping creature abilities (also underplayed) and Portcullis. Stax them!!
The real impact is everyone learning that Cam can’t spell “Shuko”.
I never understood the necromancy hype. I barely want to run nercropotence
Are the Gay To Win playmats out of stock? Wanted to get my daughter one.
Factory is best of the manlands because it can trigger nadu by targeting it self
I always try and winnish the game.
My favorite MH3 card; Shunko
Lmao
Shunko, Shuko, Skunko, Sunko
Tymnah Kamahl eats Nadu, stax decks rise up
Horobi death’s wail meta imminent
I hope cam says shunko again
ocelot pride in mf winota, how did you miss that haha
Wait, we're still talking about MH3? I thought we were on to spoliers for after Bloomburrow by now!
On the real, I think it's nice to have so many nice cards reprinted within the last year. It has made the game way more accessible.
I think nadu is new kinnan
tamiyo?