Full colour first layers on your 3D prints part 2 - Laser and inkjet printers too!
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
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Johan from Nerds.ph has created an amazing process that combines full colour 2D printing with 3D printing, using sublimation. In part 2 of this guide,we test ways to avoid the need for a sublimation printer, by utilising regular colour laser and inkjet printers. I also test out some of your suggestions from part 1.
Follow Sam Prentice on the gram: / therealsamprentice
0:00 Introduction
0:47 Quick recap of sublimation 3D printing
Previous video (part 1): • Full colour first laye...
Nerds.ph video: • Sublimated 3D printing
Nerds.ph website: nerds.ph/
Bambu Lab A1 (affiliate): shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=248535...
1:47 Colour laser printer testing
Jason Winfield video: • How to transfer full c...
Guide to retrieving installed driver to migrate to another computer: superuser.com/questions/13786...
6:39 Inkjet printer testing
7:54 Using a heat press with a 3D printed part
8:44 Folding 2D shapes to get colour on more sides
Folding cube by Aryser: www.printables.com/model/5904...
9:21 Testing on other 3D printer beds
10:07 Other colours of filament
11:18 2D print profile/saturation tweaks
12:21 Clear spray to make colours pop
13:30 Summary of Results
15:59 Conclusion
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That 2D printer company withholding drivers and forcing you to buy a new printer is disgusting.
And very unfortunately the norm
Imagine a 3d printer which prints 10 spools and then asks to bring it to the service......oh shoot, I shouldn't give them ideas 😂
That would be absolutely unacceptable, so thank god scummy practices are mostly absent within the realm or 3d printing, unlike in 2d printing...
@@Verbosal For now anyways...
@@JoEx2k11
Well. You don’t HAVE to buy a Bambu Lab.
Having worked at a major printer manufacturing company for over 15 years and learning all about various processes, it still surprises me how inkjet printing is the typical household process. Inkjet printers HATE sitting idle. If you are not printing every day you can easily waste more ink in your printers hidden purge bin than in your actual prints. Laser is the way to go. Also, if using transparency paper on a laser printer, be sure to get sheets that are designed for laser. There is a difference.
yeah but COLOR!
I could be wrong but I don't believe solid ink had that issue with inkjets.
@@EkiToji Solid ink does too, at least for some manufacturers. I worked with print head maintenance of solid ink printers. Melt/solidification cycles can cause micro bubbles to get stuck in jets. Significant purging can be required to recover.
I've been in commercial print since the 1990's. I've run 10's of thousands of transparencies through laser copiers. If the toner is not adhering it's a problem with the machine or the substrate. We were sending these out to sales people and if they had toner coming off we would have heard about it... loudly.
Cheers Jeff, I just ordered a pack of laser specific transparencies to play with this.
If it's not already up there, might be worth uploading that driver to the internet archive so other people can continue using this model
I came here to comment this!
I expected Sam's face to be sublimated onto the unused toilet seat cover.
I just love that there was literally nothing that actually prevented using that old driver, and unless you glossed over tons of trouble shooting it seems you didn't have any crazy issues getting it all to work, other than the company deciding they don't want to host the driver download anymore?? Truly dog doodie
I am surpised that Canon (also a devilish company in other ways) still hosts a driver to my LBP2900 from 2007, Windows 10 compatible.
@@adameichler aren't Canon the ones who started to sue third parties making Camera lenses compatible with their proprietary Mount?
@@KibitoAkuya I wouldn't be surprised.
@@KibitoAkuyayup. For the RF mount. Although your use of the term proprietary is redundant here. Every single camera manufacturers mount is proprietary.
@@falxonPSN fair enough, my knowledge on the stuff is pretty surface level, I only know and remember because iirc Louis Rossmann made a video about it
There is a solution for your toner transparent film problem. I use the exact process and have had perfect results even with light colors without anything coming loose. The transparent sheets you are using are incorrect; you need ones made specifically for lasers! The all-purpose ones are not suitable. With the proper sheets, I could even wipe my finger on them without anything coming loose; only my fingernail can scratch it off, but it sticks perfectly on the print.
Additionally, the quality improves significantly with a better laser printer and the right printing settings, so the stark contrast issues likely stem from your old printer, not the method. In theory, the combination of the transparent sheet and a laser printer can provide the best resolution and perfect color control. The only downsides are the shininess and the high cost of a good printer.
To sum up how to achieve perfect results: use toner transparent sheets, use a good color laser printer, become familiar with the printer's software, and use a large double-sided tape sheet (helps on warping). If you need to precisely label something (with a tolerance of less than 2mm), make a dry run without the sheet and let the printer draw the outlines of the first layer. Then, stop the printer, align your sheet in place, remove the outline print, and hold the sheet in place with tape. Now you only need to restart the print, and you will have it perfectly aligned. I have made some nice gifts that needed to be aligned perfectly with this method, and once you get used to it, it becomes less of a hassle.
LOL the reivew on Sam himself is pretty solid.
Rendering intent is basically you telling (in this case) the printer's driver how you'd like the out-of-gamut colors (that is, the colors that are present in the source color space - in this case, most likely sRGB since we're dealing with a photo from the internet - but are NOT present in the output color space i.e. the colors that the printer is able to reproduce for the specific combination of printer hardware + substrate) to be mapped to the output color space.
"Saturation" rendering intent (also known as "Presentation" in other software) aims to make out-of-gamut colors pop as much as possible by applying a non-colorimetrically accurate (i.e. the original color is altered) transformation. Relative and absolute colorimetric does the exact opposite of this - prioritizing color accuracy over everything else, usually used when dealing with business logos or other color sensitive stuff. Finally, the "photographic" rendering intent aims to preserve the relationship between different colors when mapping them to the output gamut so as to ensure that the final result looks "natural" - typically used, as implied in the name, when dealing with photos.
To potentially produce more vibrant colors with your current printer + paper setup, consider trying the following:
1. Changing the document profile from U.S. Web Coated to something like ISO Coated or GRACoL 2013 (whichever is available, doesn't really matter)
2. In the printer profile dialogue, select "Epson IJ Printer 07" (it is probably a generic output profile that was most likely installed on your computer with its driver, better than nothing and certainly better than using sRGB)
3. Before printing, visit the printer's driver page and look around for similar color management settings - there may be settings/presets that will increase print quality by trading off speed and you may get a bit more vibrant colors if there's any options asking you basically what you'll be printing.
Finally, there are printers (usually professional grade machines unfortunately) that are designed to print very vibrant colors and cover a larger portion of the sRGB color space - you'll usually find these machines labeled as "high chroma".
Thanks for the explanation! I've never really understood this before and you explained it pretty clearly. Hoping it will help me get better looking 2D prints once I unclog my Epson printer.
@@BenWolkWeiss > visit the printer's driver page and look around for similar color management settings
100% on this part especially. For laser printers, there will be something like "paper thickness". The thicker you set the paper, the hotter the laser will print & the better the toner will stick. I'm certain that inkjet printers will also have something like a "photo mode" here, where it lays down much more ink for more vibrant colors. The other stuff in the photoshop settings may help, but it will never allow for putting down more than 100% of the current ink output. The actual printer settings might though.
The return of the body spray! I hope it makes its way into more videos
I think you've covered the good methods so I figured that I'd share a really poor method that I thought of:
-Print a 1 layer thin print of PLA
-Remove it and use it as 'paper' in your 2D-printer
-Let the print inevitably melt and clog up your 2D-printer
-...
-Profit
If you spray some clear coat or polyurethane on the 3d print after washing off the paper it really helps hide the paper pieces left in the print and clean up the image.
This is brilliant! I was so excited about the previous video that I ordered an ecotank printer. It hasn't arrived yet but now thanks to this video I was able try the process immediately with the laser printer and transparency film I already had.
After some faint results due to insufficient squish followed by blurred results from too much squish I hit on a z Value that worked great and was blown away by the colors and details I was able to transfer. The only issue was the corners lifting. I was taping the film down but there was enough movement possible to allow the print to deform while printing the higher layers. I switched to using spray mount and got better results but still not perfect and cleaning the spray mount off my build sheet was time consuming. Maybe next I'll try double sided tape. Thanks so much for these videos they are fantastic.
UPDATE: I just tried using double sided tape to hold the transparency down and it worked perfectly.
So glad to see the 2d to 3d worked so well. Thanks for the call out and for trying it!
Neat. We have 3+2 machining solutions in subtractive, and now we have 3+2 in additive!
For printing Sublimation Prints and the color settings, it is actually best to change the type of Paper in the settings to Premium matte Paper, then the printer thinks the paper will absorb more Ink so it will print more ink on the first print. This should really help.
Loving this tech this is awesome. I print mostly plugs for stretched ears and this is going to be awesome being able to put photo images onto them. I LOVE the glossy look the laser onto transparent delivered. Great videos thank you
With sublimation ink, the ink manufacturers usually supply an ICC profile to use with your printer. If you don't use their profile, the images can appear washed out.
As soon as i watched this video i tried this with my canon selphy printer. its a 10x15 photo printer that works with sublimation from stock. It works like a charm! The result blew me away! On white PLA it looks like the same as the print. I think the photo paper helped a lot. Thanks, great video!
Like always, your videos are very thorough and provide step by step instructions on how to do things. Great work.
Neat! Definetly using this technique. Thank you for the video
Well, didn't expect a side of "Printer companies are run by the worst humans on earth" in this video, but I probably should have expected that would be a relevant reality of this topic. Awesome process, thanks!
One thing about laser printing on transparent film is the film tends to deform dimensionally a little due to the heat that bonds the toner. The amount it deformed varied by brand, ran into that making two sided circuit boards. For this use case it's probably not really noticable though unless it really distorts when 3d printing on it. Sublimation seems to be the way to go if you're going to do a lot of this kind of thing.
Interesting results, lots of variables come into play.
Fantastic stuff! Thanks, Michael! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Aw, that was a such sweet review of your friend. Guys could do with being nicer to each other. Thanks for testing all the methods, I had no idea my regular inkjet could be used like this.
That is game changing! Awesome tutorial!
Very nice follow up!
Thank you
Many years ago there was a paper being sold to be used with colour ink jet printers. You printed your colour image reversed on the paper using an inkjet printer. Then you placed the paper on a white or other colour t shirt and using a hot iron, you ironed on the print. When the paper was removed the image was transferred to the t shirt which after a day could be washed. This technique I used on many a t shirt and the print lasted for years of washing. Only thing was you could not put a hot iron directly on the print.
I did not see mention of this method in yr video. Don’t know if it will work with 3d prints but thought I’d mention it here as a different option.
I think the paper was sold as t shirt making paper or such.
Thanks for another interesting video.
That stuff still exists. It's called iron on transfer paper. I don't think actually ironing onto a print will work as it will just deform the plastic. I don't think printing onto it would work as you need quite a bit of heat for the transfer layer to bond to the underground. You're not just transferring ink/toner but also a thin layer of transfer material.
It is printable transfer sheets. They still exist.
I have some transfer sheets for a laser printer. I tried it to transfer on a 3D print. If I 3D print directly onto it, it doesn't seem to transfer well. I suspect it is because of the lack of pressure to melt the plastic transfer on, even though I also tried setting print speed to very slow 15 mm/s. Now, I'm not sure how it will turn out if you used a inkjet transfer sheet as they don't require as high of a temperature.
I tried using an iron as you would if you were to use it on a hard surface. Unsurprisingly, it melts the 3D print as well
Just tested this with a photo from my canon Selphy CP1300. This prints full colour gloss photos in a 4 pass system. Printing on to it at 10mmps 210c with a small amount of extra extrusion on the first layer gave a full gloss full colour image with the entire image transferred. Nothing left on the original print. Seems to actually melt the gloss photo to the print. Worked amazingly well. Does scrub off if rubbed with something abrasive while wet but have to be pretty rough.
Lithophane, man that was right on the tip of my tongue and I was googling trying to recall what the process was called - thank you for saving my sanity! :)
people who make PCB with laser printer use magazine paper to print their tracks, then wrap the PCB and heat it. then they soak to break the paper down to leave the print.
I think the glossy magazine paper helps the toner peel off
About missing the drivers for older printers and hardware on windows I use mostly in this cases a small Linux system on a raspberry or other little hardware. You can use them without problems at most.
The cool idea about making nice surface on 3D prints is great. Making a nice looking front panel for a new made electronic device is a big goal for me. Thanks a lot Michael for this two videos.
There is transparent paper that is designed specifically for laser jet.
I love the exhaustiveness of this investigation! I'm most interested in color laser on transparency. I've heard some people talk about putting a little water between the transparency and the bed, then squeezing it out / letting it evaporate when the bed heats to get it kind of vacuum stuck to the bed before fully taping it, that way the vacuum helps prevent any parts of it from lifting or wrinkling. I forget the exact details about how it's done but might be worth looking into.
Laser looks so good and I wouldn't mind taking a couple tries if I get unsightly splotches for that picture quality. I think if you experimented a bit with thickness, you could get a flat lithoplane with a good exposure level from sitting in a window - you could even add a printed ornate frame to the lithoplane so it looks like a miniature portrait haha. You could also use it to make more detailed backlit / shine-through dashboard / gauge cluster type displays. I really like the idea of combining lithoplane / shine-through prints with color graphics.
Pretty cool follow-up, I need to try this, but now I need a project idea for this.
I could try out colour change foil which are used for film/tv/theatre lighting and cut it to A4. Isn't cheap but should withstand the heat much better
The age-old cheat for doing custom models back in the day was using print-at-home decal sheets. They're not super durable by themselves, but work well under an matte or semi-gloss acrylic topcoat that works as a sealer. I have a particular Krylon variety I prefer, but not sure if it's available worldwide. As I've gotten older and my hands less reliable for fine detail, I turn to decal sheets a lot more than I used to.
You've gone wild with your new sublimation prints
Thanks for the thorough investigation! A distinction between dye and pigment based ink would be interesting.
not the unused toilet
I once used that plastic films from Contact brand and if nicely incorporated to petg (my E5P print bed does not stick to petg). It might be a nice way to have a protective layer
toner is polyester powder, and it's meant to get between the paper fibers and form a bond. So those results aren't that surprising.
Sticker backing paper instead of transparency.
Years ago, I tried that toner transfer method for DIY PCBs, neither paper nor transparency worked well. But the silicone coated backing paper (release liner) was much better. At least it worked for me, with the printer I used. But it's definitely not for that application, so be wary.
I bet, bed adhesion at 3D printing will be an issue, tho.
I've seen laser sublimation that has been printed on the shiny side of a label backing sheet after the label has been removed. I don't know if it would work better than the clear film but it shouldn't warp under the heat like the plastic sheets do. Also, use Windex/glass cleaner on the glue stick residue it's magic at reactivating the glue making it easier to remove or reuse. Found it out when I was using it on my glass print bed with the purple glue stick that dries clear.
Some inkiet printers will print onto a flat board. Im wondering if you could put hairspray or 3dlac onto a glass bed and 2d print onto that with pigment ink, then 3d print. Would the ink stick to the part or the 3dlac?
Excellent as always! For enhancing contrast on filament colors that aren't white; I'm wondering if it's possible to use the double print method, only this time lay white (or something close for good coverage) on the second print. In this way the second print is a "primer" for your color layer when transferring to your print. Thanks again for everything you contribute. I'm absolutely going to try this for a retro gaming hand held. But now I'm going to need to buy a 2D printer...
The Docuprint 205! I went on a deep dive for macos drivers for that recently too after updating my laptop. I actually love this printer, its colour handling is great. Mine has roller issues from me pushing cardboard through it, and I do wish I could restore them to their former glory.
I have found not all transparency film is created equal. The best stuff was some sheets I bought from a newsagent for 10c a page, yeaaaars ago. I ran out of that and bought the same brand as you, and the results with that have always left much to be desired. I yearn for the old transparency paper I used...
As for this technique, I ran into it by accident when trying to use transparency paper to create embossing. Perhaps I need to give it a shot as a deliberate process!
Have I got news for you! 'Rubber Renue' from MG Chemicals will restore those rollers to like-new. (I have an old Lexmark x264dn that started jamming because the pickup rollers had hardened. Cleaning them with Rubber Renue fixed the problem instantly.)
@@KeithOlson Oh I'll look into it! The problem with mine is just some sort of repeated semi-circle texture left on the surface of my prints, particularly noticable when printing on acetate sheet but it also turns up when printing on paper. I assume it's the rollers passing over the surface so hopefully a clean will resolve things!
3:09 I have that same heater next to me right now
is a pass thru sublimation printer a thing? print directly to the print bed, then move it to the printer?
try laser printer + photo paper? I know this combination used to transfer black into to copper to produce home made PCBs. ("laser iron method")
There is different transparency paper for inkjet vs laser printers. I'd be curious if it makes a difference.
I've always had the best luck with printing with my basic Canon TR8610a printer on Koala holographic sticker paper that I just stick to my textured pei build plate. The holographic part doesn't come through (which was the original intention) but whatever I printed is transferred to the bottom of the print when I peel it off the plate. Sometimes there is the image left behind and sometimes it takes it all. My best guess is that I am adhering a gloss film layer from the top of the paper to the bottom of my 3D print.
Hi and thanks for the great ideas.. There is transparent film for overhead devices for inkjet printers if you try it because it turned out a beautiful texture on plastic film. Today I have an old Canon printer for about $28 with the original cartridges left, which I fill with cheap ink from China. Is up to roughly 2000 prints right now on the same cartridges. Have a good time, Thore from Sweden
did you try an inkjet and tshirt transfer paper? also how about one of those shiny bed plates that are flat that transfer the graphic on it?
May try this with my black and white laser printer. Thinking it could be used to get some higher resolution graphics onto a front panel and/or custom key caps. Also, it may be advantageous over having to change filament to get some lettering onto a print. I do recall seeing some use glossy magazine paper for transferring toner to PCBs. I might try reviewing some of those videos.
I'd be interested to see what a grayscale chart would look like. Where does the halftone transfer breakdown would be really informative.
I used to use this water-transfer paper with an inkjet printer to make custom water applied decals. I wonder if this would be a viable option? I think the same film that dissolves in the water to let the decal slide off could also allow for the print to be removed without any scrubbing and the film itself might bond to the filament.
Though I wonder, could you just use the water-transfer decal process to apply graphics to the print _after_ the print is done?
Seems like it worked great on all those plastic models I built as a kid, so it ought to work fine on plastic models I print now. :)
I still have no clue who this 'Sam' guy is but zs of today I'm a huge fan 😂
welcome to the magic
"He started it" at least he used a nice picture of you 😂😂😂
THIS !
You should try transparency film with inkjet. I believe that will be the best result without needing to invest in sublimation ink or additional printers.
Thinking I should try this with inkjet on inkjet-specific transparency sheets. Because you are printing to a coating on the plastic (that can be scraped off), I bet it would transfer more neatly.
Maybe. Worth a try. But I would be surprised if it worked as well as laser+transparency. Unlike dye sub or toner, ink jet ink isn't designed to transfer/adhere in response to heat. You may get enough transfer to see some image, but I doubt there would be the nearly 100% clean transfer you see with the laser printer.
Instead, you'd be relying on the relative adhesive properties of the filament vs the transparency itself, hoping that the hot filament would adhere to the ink more than the transparency does.
Of course, the other issue with the transparency approach, as noted in this video, is getting the transparency itself to stay flush to the print bed. Maybe there's some sort of glue that is compatible with both the print bed and the transparency that could be use to hold it down, but lacking a solution like that, the inkjet approach will run into the same issue (since it has to do with the transparency and not the print process).
I am shocked to learn that you can't get the engineering plate anymore. Glad I have two of them - they're fantastic for ASA and ABS.
10:02 I wonder what about glass bed as I can't remove it for cleaning. Using paper is probably not a great idea here.
Laser printer on transparency produced a really nice glossy finish though, even with the surface defects this might be an acceptable tradeoff (and with experimentation it can probably be improved).
Just another thought but what about 2d printable stickers, they come in A4 sheets and they wouldn't need any tape or glue to attach to the bed. It's possible they might be too thin heat wise but that thinness may avoid the rippling experienced from the transparent film sheets with the uniform adhesion being a major advantage process wise.
Was the driver not on the internet archive? Are there, driver databases for these kinds of things? If not, we should.
Did you try toner transfer paper?
Have you tried printing on a transparency film using an inkjet printer?
Would it be possible to print thin enough to put into a printer?
I wonder how well photo paper would work. Projection transparency paper is almost extinct these days. Also some inkjet printers have water proof inks
Ever thought about using water soluble paper or water transfer sheets?
Did you try any glossy photo paper? I suspect that might prove interesting
Nice one! But how about hydro dipping?
Using a grayer filament might make the darks more dark. Something similar is used for projectors to get darker blacks
Standard inkjet ink with inkjet compatible transparency film?
I wonder how the print would look with white as the first layer then switching to a darker color?
Would a Direct to film printer work?
Curious if photo paper or t-shirt transfer paper would work better than plain paper.... hmmm...
Wow, never seen this channel going Lovecraftian horror, but here we are.
How about "tattoo" paper? Is it the same as transparency paper? It is a bit different.
I'm surprised you didn't try inkjet transfer paper. that stuff is used similarly to sublimation sheets, but I think it can be torn off of cloth afterward. Might not be the case for melted plastic though
Xerox used to make some solid ink printers that I wonder if they'd work really well on. It's a resin-based ink that they'd melt and print via Howtek inkjet heads so it prints on plenty of media and I imagine would transfer pretty well since they printed at 125 C or so.
We had a ColorCube in prepress at a previous job. We learned the hard way that the imaged sheet does not play well with reheating. We tried to run a small job off and laminate it. We ended up with a literal hot mess.
what if you print a sheet, maybe 1 or 2 layers thick. of a size the 2d printer can use. put that plastic sheet into the printer to directly print on rather than needing a transfer step. once printed you can print on top of it and then trim off the exccess around the printed part. if you want to get fancy you can probs use some jigs and macros to get the first and second print to align.
what about using an iron on transfer paper?
I wonder if photo paper would work
you need to open the printer settings, not illustrator settings, I'm only familiar with photoshop but I think its the "setup" buttom at the bottom left of the window. In photoshop theres a button right below the printer selection that says "print settings...", there I can change the setting from "normal" to "optimal", the setting should be called something realted to quality (mine's in spanish and it's an hp printer so it might be diferent), after that print time and ink consumption will increase.
I hope you do not fogot SOVOL SV08 impruvement video.
I have colour laser printer and sublimation paper.. but only textured beds!
I think the overhead transparency with a laser printer will have a ton of variance depending on the quality of the transparency film. It's already a tricky thing because you need a printer that has a transparency mode, can't just use any old laser printer.
You absolutely can use "any old laser printer", I even did this with an ancient Apple LaserWriter back in the early nineties. As long as you're using the correct film, a printer or photocopier has to be doing something *very* wrong to not work properly, as the primary issue is not having the film warp or melt at toner fusing temperature.
@@JamesChurchill read the packaging on the transparency film. They require laser printers capable of a low temp mode if you don't want to damage the film or risk it melting onto the fuser. I am a certified repair technician for laser copiers and I have seen the damage first hand.
What about sublimation ink on transparent sheet?
Well, that's a relief. My inkjet printer cost more than all my 3D printers combined; I didn't like the idea of it _somehow_ not working for this. 😏 btw, next time you encounter that bs with a driver or a piece of software, just copy the original page or download URL and throw it into the Wayback Machine. 👍
This Senna Jersey... 💚💛
Ah, I was hoping it would be a bit more generally applicable, as I don't really have any reason to print Sam's face 😉
try some high gloss photo paper with the inkjet printer
would photo paper work any better leaving the plastic layer ?
Oiling the paper
Spread out a newspaper and then a blank piece of white paper on top. Place the photograph on top, face down. Using a brush or a paper towel, apply oil (you can use olive oil, sunflower oil, mineral oil or crisco light) to the paper to make it transparent.
Was there a reason you didn't try inkjet on transparency film? There is a special transparency film for inkjet printers.
I can't say that I'm surprised about the inkjet colors washing off easily. Most inkjet ink is water based (it's the same reason why inkjet prints run when they get wet).
Pigment vs dye based ink jet?
how about inkjet on transparancy?
the transparency inkjet print looked best to me I guess.
not sure if it was mentioned already...
... ever heard of inkjet water.slide decals ?
thats like tatoopaper but for plastic
to enhance colors... try to layer the "plastic tatoos/ water slide decals"
I wonder about inkjet on transpancy
2D+3D... So is that 5D then?