Sorry to ask a sensible question wihout looking at the video yet (I'm busy right now), but did you will adress the recuring racism problem of modern Wuxia/cultivator novel?
Not quite related I guess, but in the Kill Bill Diary, David Carradine made the point that the months of training the cast got for the movie was in Wuxia, not Kung Fu. They all learn to fly with wires, including him. There was a scene shot with Bill fighting alone against a bunch of guys and winning. Would that make of Bill a secret Xia hero?
The manga Doctor Big Beard - 流氓侠医， tells of a doctor who possessed extraordinary medical skills who could have made it big in a private hospital yet chose to serve the underbelly of society. He healed beggars, prostitutes, deserving gangsters, etc. Not only did he restore their physical well-being, he also cared for their mental states as well. Definitely a 侠医.
@Malaysia Viral Video Well their the comics "Cultivator vs super heroes" where the ancient Chinese looking protagonists easily defeat the super hero based on well known not Chinese characters. So basicly One Punch Man wihout the humor and social commentary, but with nationalist undertone. Based on some of my research it seems to be a regular problem with Chinese novels and comics.
This wuxia literary culture also strongly influences unique Indonesian "silat" genre, an unmistakably Chinese kung fu stuff with Indonesian Nusantara setting, from Kho Ping Hoo's "Bu Kek Siansu" which adapted into Angling Dharma, "Alap-Alap Laut Kidul" (Southern Sea's Falcon), "Bagus Sajiwo", and many others. Bastian Tito also wrote a famous silat character "Wiro Sableng", a humorous martial artist that scours the entire semi-fictional Nusantara setting to serve justice, which has been adapted to various cinema films.
As for the myth, we know some myth figures such as Si Pitung who cultivate his power, and tend to stick his mentor's ideals for proctect the weak from colonialist evil
Great video. I think the appeal of the Wuxia genre comes from the fact it gives power to the common people. Most of the protagonists are from humble or at least non-noble background yet through hard work can achieve powers that let them defy the established order.
Usually the side characters defy the established order and the protagonists protect it. Even the protagonists that become reclusive contribute to maintaining order before they leave. That is far more common throughout Chinese literature.
@@JinFX Guo Jing outright told Kublai that he was fighting to protect the people and not the corrupt Song Dynasty. Yang Guo was an anarchists who took pleasure at giving the finger to convention. Zhang Wuji & Chen Jialuo were outright rebels fighting against the established governments. Although the protagonist would sometimes fight to maintain to status quo, this was to protect the people not to support the establishment.
@@426mak The established order is Chinese traditional philosophy, not the government establishment. Also Jin Yong heavily relied on Chinese religious characters in creating his characters. In China the dynasty is tasked with maintaining order and righteousness, not the other way around. Guo Jing growing up in Mongolia saw that Temujin was a hero but turned against him because of the siege at Samarkand. Also Temujin is central to the novel and probably the antagonist. I was thinking more along the lines of the four greats as each defying tradition in their own way but then Guo Jing comes and rights their wrongs or brings them peace. Each of them has some great internal conflict that reflects their corruption of beliefs. He also saves the lives or souls of many other characters, and you can even include Temujin and Tuolei in there. Guo Jing was born in the Song but he only fully returns to the Song to stop the Mongol invasion which he saw while on campaign to be against Chinese tradition. Yang Guo of course rebelled first against Guo Jing, then Quanzhen, and then the taboo of marrying a different generation, but the point of the novel was that righteousness is not about fussing over the fine details, in light of the deterioration of the many schools as Song society as a whole declined and corrupted, tradition was being lost and Yang Guo rediscovered it through his travels and later heroics. Yang Guo even though he was eccentric like the four greats, saved the established order at the Battle of Xiangyang and saved powerful martial arts traditions from Dugu and Wang Chongyang. Wang Chongyang was also the hidden protagonist, who went underground to protect the Nine Yin Manual from the clutches of the four greats, and the Quanzhen of his time was a beacon of light, even though it was Jin and not Song. Again the side characters are the ones really defying the established order, which causes their side conflicts. Zhang Wuji was born into the Ming cult, so he did not choose to rebel against the orthodoxy or the government, and it's pretty clear that the Ming cult is continuous with the Ming dynasty that restores order after the decline of the Yuan. The orthodoxy is also painted as outcasting the cult only because of a conspiracy, and they eventually become uneasy allies. The orthodoxy eventually fully embraces Zhang Wuji and Zhang Sanfeng, who is also a hidden protagonist. The orthodoxy school leaders are all vividly described as having their illnesses that Zhang Wuji heals one by one, analogous to their deviations from true orthodoxy being corrected by the truth bringer that is Zhang Wuji. It's easy to see why this novel would be less popular because there are less complexities in the core characters, even Zhao Min is a bit simple. Chen Jialuo is an earlier character, and I don't know his story, but I believe Jin Yong meant for the Qing to be anti-villains as he does later in Deer and Cauldron and maybe Flying Fox. Chen Jialuo tried to re-establish what he believed in, the Ming. Again the major political powers and schools are central to the stories but they are not the most important characters.
@@JinFX And Jin Yong understood the ideal that the Dynasty should bring law and order but also recognized the truth that if often fails to do so and such he created characters to bring justice to the people. GJ was the very antithesis of the traditional Chinese hero. Raised in a barbarian society, barely literate and almost ignorant of Chinese etiquette he is the last person you would expect to champion Chinese culture. The Four Greats, with the exception of Northern Beggar took themselves out of society. Eastern Heretic disillusioned by the Song treatment of his ancestor. Southern Monarch by his personal demons and Western Venom by his own ambitions. That Eastern Heretic and Southern Monarch ended up in Xiangyang was pure coincidence and neither of them was there to save traditional Chinese values. That goes for Yang Guo as well. He showed up in Xiangyang purely to save Guo Xiang, not because he wanted to save the city. His inheritance of Dugu Qiubai skill was also a gesture of defiance for DQB was the Sword Devil, who saw himself as someone outside of convention and tradition forging his own path. With Wang Chongyan, YG inherited his forbidden love that defied tradition not his patriotism. ZWJ was not born into the Ming Cult but had the position thrust upon him when he saved them from annihilation. In fact his pedigree as the son as of a Wudang Hero and Lady of the Eagle Cult was breaking tradition. Not only was his parent's love forbidden, but they were never formally married a big taboo to traditional Chinese. His treatment of the orthodox schools was a reflection of his benevolence. He would save anyone in trouble regardless of whether they were orthodox or not. Chen Jialuo is JY most failed character. Fighting for a lost cause and sacrificing the two most important women in his life. He is an example of what happens when one stubbornly sticks to tradition. You not only fail but lose everything that as truly important.
@@426mak I like how we can interpret the story in different ways. Chinese politics and religion were as not focused on law and order of ideas, but the scholarship and morality of persons. The Wulin and heroes are outside the law already, but that only makes them more reliant on religion and philosophy. They are not police or vigilantes, but followers of teachings. So the conflicts in Wuxia and other Chinese stories come from Chinese philosophies, not politics or etiquette. For an example outside Wuxia, Mulan is another barbarian who breaks laws but is celebrated for her filial piety and fealty. Guo Jing received a good philosophical education, whereas Yang Kang learned more martial and social skills but lacked philosophical guidance. (This is Temujin being a better organizer than the Jin princes.) Guo Jing is a champion of Chinese culture even if he'd make a really bad Tiktoker. The Northern Beggar also took himself out of society and neglected his sect, but he just appears so often because of his gluttony vice. The four greats create conflict, not resolve them. Yang Guo saves a lot of people throughout his life, but the bigger thing is he fully learned Quanzhen religious teachings unlike his father and peers who were too busy with politics over philosophy. So he was more educated and therefore became more powerful than them. Zhang Wuji was the same with Wudang philosophy.
As a kid growing up in the Philippines, I loved Condor Heroes (with Liu Yifei as Xiaolongnü) and the Suikoden JRPG. Then read the OG Water Margin as an adult. :)
I was weaned on Sunday morning Chinese shows on rpn 9. It was cc in Mandarin, too. Did not understand anything but so fascinated. Im Gen X tho, so that was ages ago.
*Wuxia* (especially new school) in the terminology of RPG focus on the 'Jiang Hu' as a world setting, which is basically the 'undercurrent' beneath civil society, and martial arts as the combat system. The gangs, rebels, wanderers, smugglers, mercenaries, all who walks between the respectable society and the shadow economy, the secret society, the crime stories. So Wuxia with more historical contexts tend to be set in unstable period in history. If there is a western video game that most embodied the ethos of Wuxia, it would be Assassin's Creed, in particular Black Flag. Star Wars is also very Wuxia, but not because of the space magic which only represents the combat system. It's more about the idea of the conflicts of the undercurrents of society. Rebels, recruiting criminals to fight the empire. The colorful characters that pop up all over the place while empire fought across the stars. It's the type of concept Wuxia is build on. The reason you use John Wick, it's because it's the same concept. The assassins, the criminals, the undercurrent of civil society.
In fairness, Edward Kenney wasn't really sticking to a code of ethics, in my opinion. There weren't really lines he didn't cross, just lines he wasn't being asked to cross. He's certainly the closest in terms of being independent, but I don't think that that makes him Xia.
@@Duiker36 Ah... but a personal code of ethics was never really necessary and tends to be nebulous. It's just something we tend to associate with the protagonist. Jin Yong's story in particular tends to emphasize on the hypocrisy of Xia. The 'orthodoxy' tend to be 'polite' on the surface, but mostly asshole underneath. When people address a group as '各路英雄', there is rarely any actual 英雄 among them. Kenway would be call a ‘绿林好汉’ which often associate with the idea of Robinhood because of the Water Margin but really it's just the polite way of calling someone a highwayman.
No Chinese thinks that the Wuxia novel story is history. But the Wuxia story joins a large number of historical backgrounds, historical people, Taoism (yin and yang) and traditional culture. The content is also very like ancient China.
I literally just started reading Jin Yong's "A Hero Is Born" last week and it is hands down the best book I've read this year! Really appreciate the historical and cultural context you've offered in this video.
The sequels in the trilogy are even better in my opinion. Legend (the 1st) is a very much straightforward Wuxia story, Return (the 2nd) starts to turn against and question the heroes we encountered in Legend, Heavenly-Dragon (the 3rd) lets chaos take over and overturns the entire order so beloved in Legend.
Don't know why this appears in my rec. But as a Westerner, I grew up liking Eastern cinemas very much via the work of masters like Kurosawa, Kobayashi (whose masterpiece "Hara Kiri", to me, belongs to the pantheon of World's greatest movies ever made), and latter generation like Kitano (Zatoichi). Then, a few Chinese friends introduced me to the genre of Chinese Wuxia, mostly HongKong flics of the 90's, and I was surprised to see how different the two cultures were. At the time, I thought there must be a great similarity between Chinese and Japanese martial arts movies. Now of course, I know that I was provincial at the time to think East Asian cultures were alike. Just like there are differences between Italian and German operas, differences between Japanese and Chinese martial arts should be expected. That said, I must make a disclaimer that I am not a connoisseur of Chinese dramas, although I thoroughly love one of the few I saw, "The Romance of Three Kingdom" (2010), which I also think a World classic. (But I don't think most Chinese view such historical drama as Wuxia?)
Wuxia has a typical focus on the kung fu and martial prowess of the character, The Romance of Three Kingdoms focus on the stories, although it discusses some martial prowess of its characters like Lu Bu or Guan Yu. Like typical run-of-the-mill Shonen anime/manga, the MC of a wuxia typically is on a quest to learn secret ancient kung fu technique that should let him defeat new villains for various motives. They are either good vs evil (e.g. Jin Yong's "The Smiling, Proud Wanderer", my late father's favourite), restoring justice (e.g. "Fong Sai Yuk"), or patriotic (e.g., contemporary ones like Wong Fei Hung's tales, stories of Ip-man, Huo Yuanjia's "Fearless"). There are some religious elements too like in The Legends of 8 Immortals or Journey to The West, each featured characters with various martial arts ability and use them to do justice in vigilantism manner (e.g. Sun Wukong got punished for doing the "right" thing). Since The Romance doesn't have that much detailed of a fight, it instead focuses on the strategies instead of one's martial might. There are cross genre between historical literatures like "The Romance of Three Kingdoms" and Wuxia. I think "Water Margin" could classify as such, since most of Song Jiang's gang of rebels (much like Robin Hood or Money Heist gangs) are martial artists, especially known is Wu Song, known in here as "Tiger-slaying hero". These classic stories, full of pompous and sometimes ridiculously magnamous characters are often spoofed in Master Q's comic. Through these movies, you will learn a lot of East Asian values and cultures. Bear in mind, you might have encountered similar stories or plotlines in many famous cartoons or anime / manga. For example, the very famous Japanese RPG game "Suikoden" is none other than Japanese take on "Water Margin" (Shui hu zhuan). In turn, it also influences quite a lot of how East Asians portray "battles" like sports, you see a lot of kung fu magic BS in anime like Kuroko no Basket.
No, "Romance of 3 Kindom" is a historical classic, it's not within wuxia genre. The wuxia genre is typically about heroic deeds via the means of martial arts, so the 2 main focuses of wuxia is the "hero", and the "martial art", these 2 focuses drive the story forward. Among Chinese 4 epics, "Water Margin" feels more wuxia than the rest (including "Romance of 3 Kingdoms"), but overall the "martial art" side isn't exactly as well-described or important as modern wuxia. In that sense, if you've ever watched "Kungfu Hustle", it can be somewhat considered a wuxia movie. In fact, it has lots of references from wuxia novels (some of which you can read in my recommendation below) If my explanation is still too vague, I recommend watching some adaptations of classic wuxia novels (I don't recommend watching any adaptations that were produced AFTER 2010 though, because Chinese film-making of wuxia fictions had dropped badly in terms of qualities of acting, scripting and choreography) 1. Demi-god and Semi-devil: The story is heavily influenced by Buddhism philosophies, but if you don't understand those, it's still fine because the story covers lots of real life concepts, such as: heroism, kindness, love, racism, patriotic, etc. You may find it confusing at first because there are 3 protagonists, but I think that's why watching this story is better than reading. Imo the 1997 adaptation of this story is the best one, they have the best actors, the best choreography and has the most success in translating the original morals of the novel. But if you can't find this film with the translations you need, the 2003 adaptation is also good. Main martial arts: 28-Subduing Dragon Palms, Beiming Powers, Six Solar Palms of Heavenly Mountain, Lingbo Footwork, Spirit Blade of Six Divine Meridians, Yijin Jing (Muscle-Tendon Change Manual), etc ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. The Legend of the Condor Hero: Typical underdog story. The journey of the an orphan with lack of talent in martial arts to become a hero that was among the best fighters of China, also the struggle between morality (love, patriotic, etc) and power (supreme martial art, royalty, etc) Main martial arts: 9 Yin True Classic (literally involved in 90% of events of the story), 18-Dragon Subduing Palms, Peach Blossom Falling Leaves Palm, Toad Kungfu, Yi Yang Finger, Dog Beating Staff, Iron Palm, etc ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. The Return of the Condor Hero: The sequel to #2. The focus of the story is the protagonist's romance that were hindered by feudal prejudices, and his struggle between revenging for his own father and the duty to protect his country Main martial arts: Swordplay of Jade Maiden, Melancholic Palms, 18-Dragon Subduing Palms, etc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. The Smiling, Proud Wanderer: One of the main focuses of this story is their "Greed" for power, in the form of a secret swordmanship as well as power to rule over others. The other one is about "What makes someone good or evil". I have watched 2 adaptations of this novel, although they're entertaining, I think they don't do that well in translating the dramas and the author's intention into films, so I suggest you read the novel. Main martial arts: 9 Swords of Dugu ("Dugu" means "Lonely person"), Bixie Sword Manial (the main focus of the story), Star Sucking Skill, etc
@@shazamsakazaki Romance of 3 Kingdom technically is a fiction story. The main event and characters were there in the three kingdom era. Actually what going on doesn't really match totally in all the historical records and documents at that time.
I was thinking that Wu Xia sounds a lot like vigilante stories, like Batman or Spiderman, and then when you mentioned them near the end I was very proud of myself lol... one of the stories you mentioned actually reminded me a lot of The Punisher, but I was definitely stuck in a comic book mindset, so John Wick didn't occur to me. But yeah, John Wick sounds like he fits in :D
Government not meddling into the business of the world of xia is also a very common trope of wuxia literature. In John Wick 1, a police officer visited John Wick's house, asked few questions and just left without doing anything. This felt like the wuxia trope of Government not interfering.
@@bloodmure1 Not exactly the case. One of main force of "Flying fox of Snowy Mountain" (a classic wuxia novel btw) is the Qing government, the protagonist Lu Ding Ji is somewhat a government officer, etc I don't think John Wick fits in "wuxia" genre, considering he fits the "heroic" aspect, but doesn't on the "martial art" one. Wuxia isn't just about "heroes fighting martial art", but martial art is the main focus and the driving force of a wuxia story.
Wuxia also involved it environment /atmosphere, not just focus on a character. Like underground society aka gangs but with certain attitudes and mannerism. Kind of like Peaky Blinders series.
@@bloodmure1 Not exactly, it is more of 2 world that trying not to crash with each other hard. Wuxia world is like an underground society. There are several Jin Young novel also imply the characters involved in war against government, or with government against others countries(Gou Jing is one of those) Kind of like the world of samurai.
Jin Yong (Louis cha) is definitely my favourite wuxia writer. He wrote the condor heroes, the heavenly sword and dragon sabre, the smiling proud wanderer, the deer and the cauldron, and loads of more books.
It is amazing how you managed to summarize so much and contain so much information and present it in understandably easy flowing way. Thank you so much and please continue enriching us with culture so rich and beautiful. 🌹👏🏻
The feeling of righteousness and heroism exhibited by the characters drew me into these stories just as much as the fantastical martial arts did when I was a child. I'm still pretty addicted to these stories haha.
wuxia is like star wars, chi is like the force, flows through us and bonds the universe together and can be used to fly, force palm and force lightning, such as in crouching tiger, no light sabers but sword and spears, jinyong has light and dark side in legend of condor, where the main antagonist got strong but become mad man from practising the dark scrolls, the protagonists is guojing and huangrong very much like luke and leia
That's because Star Wars is not only openly inspired by Kurosawa's works, but in general is a cheap copy of a lot of wuxia stuff, specially Condor Heroes. Star Wars is the most over-hyped thing in the world. There is even a video uploaded by a Mongolian girl, how for SW's "A New Hope" Portman's outfit was a straight steal from a traditional Mongolian costume. Now, it would have been all right if they had had the decency of stating where they took it from, but no! they say it was straight out of Lucas' fantastic mind. Portman's name Padme Amidala, is derived from Buddha Amida (Amithaba) what else? isn't Neeson's character actually called Hong Qi Gong lol? and there is also one called Ahsoka, obviously from King Ashoka. What is outrageous is how they never had the decency to admit where they took all that from. But sure, it was catered to western audiences that had no idea about anything of this.
Great breakdown of the history of Wu Xia, CJ! I would love for you to delve into the LOCH/ROCH series, and speak on the religious and cultural themes that are littered throughout the two stories. I remember seeing a discussion online where a commenter said Guo Jing was the embodiment of the ideal Confucian hero, and contrasted it to Yang Guo's portrayal as a symbol of Buddhist ideals. It has been years so I don't remember all the details, but I'm sure you'd be able to break it down much more eloquently!
Thank you CJ and crew for all of your fantastic videos. I have learned so much from you. Appreciate all of your hard work very much. I especially enjoyed your series on Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
In my country (Indonesia) the most Popular Wuxia is Journey To The West thanks to Dicky cheung's tv series adaptation, we called it as Kera Sakti (lit. Magical Monkey) and the opening song of that series was covered by a local rap group
The wuxia series I still remember include: 笑傲江湖， 包清天（not sure if it classifies as such), and 白蛇传。 I remember watching a wuxia series where two female wuxias had to find two powerful swords in caves, but can't remember the name of it.
Actually 白蛇传 is some kind of 仙侠，xian xia (fairy xia)。wu means kongfu，xia means hero. In Wuxia world all people are human. Meanwhile xian xia(仙侠）may have all kinds of creatures from ancient myths.
@@louiswu6300 白蛇传 classifies as 玄幻 (supernatural) I believe. Usually, if there is no key characters from the heavenly realm, it is not 仙侠。Although there is a lot of crossovers.
@@YongShengOng 白蛇还是比較仙侠的。毕竟多數是接触了妖和仙。 玄幻則沒那麼偏向妖仙的。玄幻比較是凡人修練到神化的境界，涉及宇宙/界面 之類的，比較接触到一點點科幻的。 玄幻和仙侠的區別是沒那麼的強調與劃清人，妖，魔，仙的界線。 玄幻是fantasy了, 不是supernatural。就是The Lord of the Ring, Game of Thrones 那種的題材。
The Last Jedi..and the prequels..specifically revenge of the sith feel like wuxia films..even the last jedis throne room fight, with fighters standing back, posing with weapons..reminds me of shaw brothers wuxia..I know people didnt like last jedi but...I absolutely loved it
@@aokhoinguyenang3992 I really wouldn’t call Wei Xiaobao a xia. He is loyal to his friends and holds real affection for his lovers but ultimately, his actions are based on how best to benefit himself. As the protagonist of Jin Yong’s last novel, many interpret Wei Xiaobao as the author’s way of telling his readers that in the real world, it is not any xia but someone like Wei who would survive and thrive. Ultimately, the wuxia concept remains a fantasy.
My favorite line from JY goes something like: Those of the small xia protect the weak from the wicked strong Those of the great xia serves the country and the people.
I think if you don't know Chinese culture and history，you may never know many things in wuxia， that‘s why Jin Yong never win a nobel prize just because the judges who are foreigner cannot understand these
I've got to hand it to you CJ. I have always had an inquisitive curiosity for foreign philosophy and mysticism. Your channel serves as a conduit for deeper research on my part. I've purchased a few books and movies after seeing them mentioned here. Overall, thanks bro.
Cool History Bros: Water Margin has influenced whatever gacha hell you are playing right now. *Me playing Fate/Grand Order while listening to him in the background: I feel personally attacked*
Thanks for making this! I especially like that you've taken the time to define xia given that its such a thick concept and encapsulates so much. I'll probably be referring to Batxia and Spiderxia forever now. As an English-only reader, I've been starved of translations of wuxia fiction. Its only thanks to fan translations that I've been able to get stuck into Gu Long's wonderfully pulpy, witty stories. I'll shill for them here then. Everyone should check out Handsome Siblings on Netflix, its an excellent adaptation despite the strictures of Chinese censorship.
I love wuxia, especially the Xianxia sub genre mostly because of an obsession I have with Sun Wukong and Xi you ji. I've seen so many versions. Thankyou for explaining this for me.
Nice video, loved following the whole historical development of this genre. Nice to see how jp and chi literature influenced each other back then too, though rather than suikoden I thought of rurouni kenshin hahaha. Agree that there is less wuxia and more xianxia instead nowadays. I love the thrill of wuxia but definitely not saying no to the pretty world of xianxia and danmei adaptations (where my shanren at).
Nowadays, it more develop into 玄幻/玄幻武侠(Xuan Huan/Xuan Huan Wuxia, aka fantasy series of wuxia). Most of the chinese anime that adapted from novel in China are fantasy wuxia genre, kind of like The Lord of The Ring or Games of Thrones kind of setting. The traditional wuxia meet with xianxia hence developed xuanhuan wuxia. Xianxia is more fixed on heavens/angels/fairy/demons/God kind of settings while xuanhuan is more of the journey of human to train and becoming godly(and the fantasy genre make it more wide, the story not fixed in the time line, universe or the world Earth that we know of.)
I love wuxia cinema so much. One of my favourite cinematic movements for sure And it's great to see Stephen Teo's research on this mentioned. His 'wuxia tradition' book is a must read. I'll get around to reading the classics and watching some television some time, but I've always found succinct choreography under 2 hours to be more appealing. I did love the 2008 LOCH when I watched it years ago. Didn't finish though!
It is kind of a new phenomenon that's more often used in new school wuxia, which was inspired by the rivalry of Hong Kong's martial arts schools. As far as I can tell, it was hardly present in older works. The bandits in water margin were outlaws, they're not trying to become the number 1 fighter in wulin.
@@TheKillakick I haven't watched Into the Badlands, so I can't comment about it. As for Avatar, it is kinda complicated, because it was Aang's destiny to bring peace. It wasn't 100% his will. "The chosen" one trope don't really exist in ancient China and Japan. In Buddhism, Maitreya, the future Buddha don't come to stop war or solve any worldly problems either.
Jin Yong is overwhelminhly popular in my country Vietnam. Back in the 60s when a new chapter of his novel is released on the daily newspaper Mingpao in Hongkong, there'd be an airplane deliver the newspapers to Saigon, Vietnam on the very same day, then Vietnamese agencies will quickly translate and publish the chapters on their newspaper the very next day. Characters like Guo Jing, Yang Guo, Duan Yu... have become iconic and well-known in Vietnam for decades
@@kemurajohn1249 Because nowadays people has more shows to watch(thanks to the internet) & they likely have watch at least 1 or 2 adaptation before thus don't feel the need to watch the same thing twice
@@kemurajohn1249 There aren't a single good Wuxia adaptations since 2010. Look at Qiao Feng of the 1997 version and 2013 version, anyone can tell the 1997 version is superior in everyway
Nice video. Maybe the reason why wuxia novels are almost unknown in the West it's because they are too Chinese, too embedded in Chinese culture, history and values for a foreign reader to really relate. A Japanese or Korean reader could still relate to the narrative, but for a Westerner it's the tale of an alien world. It would be like showing "Boris" to a Chinese viewer. "Boris" is an Italian comedy TV series, a satire of the Italian television. It's really funny, but to laugh you need a deep understanding of Italian customs, society and values. No one laughs for a joke that needs an explanation.
Just try watching "Kungfu Hustle" first. It's really close to your general wuxia stories, most of the ideas in there are reference to wuxia culture. If you like the movie, maybe you can like wuxia genre as well.
@@shazamsakazaki it's not about liking, but about relating. One can still like the product of a distant culture, but there is always a sense of otherness that prevents a full appreciation or understanding. It's like the "culturally uncanny" sensation mentioned in the video about "Avatar: The Last Airbender".
@@alessandrodelogu7931 No I don't mean it as an insult or something. I only suggest this as an option so that you can see if wuxia genre is within your liking or not
@@shazamsakazaki I'm not offended at all. I've watched "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon", "Hero" and other wuxia and chanbara movies and I enjoyed them. But they are things you like if you already like the genre. Here they are a niche product.
I think you should try the Star War series, those movies has a lot of Wu Xia elements in it. George Lucas probably borrowed a lot of inspirations from the East.
My father often told me about how he and his sister waited in line in front of the printing press in Bangkok for latest translation of chapter of Jin Yong's novel when he was young. The readers were insatiable, they were translating one chapter at a time, translating and selling new chapter like every other day. Then when they have enough chapter they repack them into a volume and sell them again they way they do comic books. Bunch of addicts.
So the xia (俠) are like the Japanese delinquent student: the banchou (番長) or sukeban (スケバン/助番), who are almost exactly how you described them, they have their own sense of justice.
Actually, this is one of the best Videos you have done. Because these things are very important to me. As far as the law goes, if it isn't Just and Compassionate, it's not a useful Law in my opinion.
I know of many heroic figuers in history so my list is long but in modern times, in addition to military veterans, some police officers and Scholars including Cool History Bros because helping people understand the value of history and its lessons is a heroic endeavor. And please don't let my praise go to your head Cool History Bros. As one of my Chinese Friends says " If you let praise over-inflate your ego, your head will turn into a road apple meat bun. And you would look really silly with a road apple meat bun for a head.😊
I read all the Jin Yong's Wu Xia novels (13 of them) and he's still hands down the best one of them all (I read all the other authors contemporary of his time and after).
@@fraderiktan1505 Its my favorite of the many adaptations, even though it was short and had to skip a lot of characters, I still feel like it still holds up as a great adaptation. It also got me into the 范阳笠 hat, which has made many appearances in settings during the Song-Ming era
Here is a bunch of unrelated point: _ Judge Bao movies, shows,... will never be officially translated into English because of obvious reason: The real historical figure is a normal Chinese man but they made him bl@ck(in plays the serious character wear a black mask), then add a crescent moon scar/birthmark(depend on the story) on his forehead symbolizing the light of the moon exposing injustice hiding in the dark _ My favorite Jin Yong shows are the ones where the story affect the real history & setting instead of just confining itself in the underworld(martial art world) making the setting feel alive & the character's actions feel more important but not the only thing in the universe happening. Also not having a hero upholding it own codes & laws interact with the real law just don't use this element to its full potential _ My favorite Duke of Deer Mountain adaptation is the 2000 one: It feel completed because of the changes(combining characters like the fake queen dowager & 1 of the MC wives, not killing Wu San-kuei one of the big bad off screen,...) the others felt constrained buy the 50+ episodes format if they explore 2 arc they have to shorten 1 probably because the novel is too long(I haven't read the novel yet, just the impression I got from watching the adaptation) _ I don't like using the Cultivation translation it doesn't feel right
Some adaptation changes around 2000s are because Jin Yong edited his novels. He continued changing them after too but the newest editions aren't as popular.
@@JinFX I also didn't like Demi Gods & Semi Devils new ending I don't think the changes in the Duke of Deer Mountain 2000 is because of the book since adaptation after it is very similar to the one before it & feature none of the changes like combining the fake queen dowager(important in the beginning but not at the end) & Su Quan(appear in the middle but become important at the end). These changes are based on the Royal Tramp(a film version of the story in 1992) version which was to condense the story for a film
I guess that makes much of the stuff I write witch/druid xia since they're often about pious individuals who are skilled in various occult disciplines with a moral code that often clashes with those in power and use those abilities to fight corrupt governments, fascistic organizations, sorcerers who abuse their occult knowledge for the purpose of evil, supernatural monsters, and other such things. They generally do not care for human laws, only what is righteous on a cosmic scale and are more-a-less living instruments of the cosmic balance or perhaps "karma" at least in the sense that it is sometimes used. They have a sense of loyalty toward a host of Spirits and Deities as well as close friends and family, but not to any nation or associated government even if they have a deep love for their own culture.
“It’s a complete BS but you go along with it because it’s cool” - this is the most accurate commentary I’ve ever heard. we put logic on human power aside and enjoy the ride. Lol
I guess that explains why we never get to see a wuxia show about Dugu Qiubai, cause the dude wasn't heroic. He's just an OP guy and a sword craze who is obsessed in being the strongest.
A. It's mostly because Dugu Qiubai doesn't have an official novel written by the creator (Jin Yong), except for fan-fictions here and there B. There is a TV series about him. But because there is no good source (Jin Yong never wrote about Dugu more than a few lines in The Legend of The Condor Hero and The Smiling Proud Wanderer), the film isn't exactly good and people tend to forget about it.
The first novel of the Condor Heroes trilogy just got translated and published in Germany this autumn. They marketed it as the chinese Lord of the Rings.
Considering the impact it has on East and South East Asia cultures, and most of the characters' motivations are greed (or ambition), it's not completely wrong
very interesting video! It was enlightening to learn so much about xia fiction. when you mention the influence of bandit xia on yakuza, I also couldn't help but wonder how much influence bandit xia has had on HK crime cinema. I def started thinking especially of stories where the protagonist is more of an "old school" honorable criminal who is loyal to friends and treat the gang as a family, set against an antagonist who is a "new school" criminal who is willing to betray anyone to get ahead and is more of a ruthless business type.
Its because JY set the bench mark to high. The man was a literary genius adding elements of poetry, history, traditional and contemporary culture. His protagonists can be upright, rebellious, brutal, cunning or even amoral. The man cast too long a shadow.
To begin, Water Margin is a must because it will help you connect with the Xia concept and the plot is actually easy to understand. Jin Yongs are super if you pay your time in learning more about Chinese culture and terms like Yin Yang or qi. Start with the Condors Trilogy, then Demigods and Semi Devils because that is the Condors prequel, The Smiling Proud Wanderer, then Deer and Cauldron. After that you can read anything you like because in the Jinyongverse they are all connected. For Gu Long you can start anywhere because they are kinda episodic and does not require a lot of history researchs You can watch the kids anime Hongmao and Lantu if you want to know about Liang yushen
Water Margin isn't similar to general modern wuxia, because the "martial art" aspect of it is more of a tool to use than a force to drive the story like in modern wuxia. But it kinda generalized the idea of "heroism" of the genre, in terms of what make someone "heroic" and others not. ------ Condor Trilogy consists of The Legend of The Condor Hero, The Return of The Condor Hero, Heavenly Sword and Dragon Saber 1st book, The Legend of The Condor Hero, is your typical underdog story, where the protagonist overcame hardships to become a heroic figure. The main theme of the story is patriotic and the idea of the good would be rewarded and the evil would be punished. 2nd book, The Return of The Condor Hero, focuses more on romance, and the core morality is a bit more complex. It's about the love against society prejudice and struggle between greater good (the protagonist's country freedom) and personal affair (vengeance for his father's death) 3rd book, Heavenly Sword and Dragon Saber, is a complete love story with martial arts element if you may say. The hardest trial for the protagonist was literally choosing who is the one he loved the most between the 4 girls who loved him. Even the author later regretted being too focused on romance and neglecting the relationships between male characters (father-son, teacher-student, master-servant) --------- Demi Gods and Semi Devils is the prequel of the Condor trilogy, but you don't need to read one to understand the other. Although it's about Buddhism philosophies, non-Buddhist can still understand the story because it covers the most discussed topics in fictions: love, kindness, ambition, patriotic, racism, etc. The martial art world (wulin) was very well described in this story, with complex relationships and martial art system. ---------- The Smiling of Proud Wanderer main themes are "greed" (greed for power, greed for strength, greed for vengeance) and about what makes a person "good" or "evil". I highly recommend reading this because I haven't watched any adaptation that could cover the moral of the story to its fullest. ---------- Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain is much shorter than the ones I listed above. It's also more focused on dramas and less on action, but it's really worth the read. The story focused about greed and vengeance.
My favorite Wuxia is Thunderbolt Fantasy. It was made in collaboration with the Japanese writer Gen Urobuchi (Fate/Zero, Psycho-Pass, Madoka Magical) and the Taiwanese puppet company PILI.
Born in China and raised in Canada, I was Canadian af until age 17, when the Chinese Television station became free on cable TV. The first HK drama I watched was Jinyong's 笑傲江湖 1996 version and ever since I haven't became more Chinese than Canadian. 🤣
As an oversea Vietnamese, I could never understand my older Vietnamese relatives' fascination for Chinese wuxia and kongfu stuff. I am ashamed to say some of them (due to old-age dementia) were not able to make a distinction between fantasy and realism. They believed that Chinese had secret martial arts that one man can defeat a 100 like in movies (they have mild dementia, I think). I pointed out that China for thousand years was often defeated by Northern barbarians, such as the XiongNu, Khitan (Liao dynasty?), occupied by the Jurchen (Jinn dynasty), by the Mongolian (Yuan dynasty), even the Oirats and Japanese pirates harassed China Ming dynasty, who eventually lost to the Manchurian Qing. So, I asked them, where was all these wonderful Shaolin and Wutang kungfus they watched when China was under sieged and occupied by these Northern barbarians? They had no answer.
Think of it like ourselves modern day with Marvel movies. And yes, if they have dementia, they'd probably think that. Worse things have been thought of from the dementia mind. Also, give them a break. You will invariably suffer from dementia yourself in old age as well.
As a Chinese living overseas, I was wondering why u believed Han was defeated by northern barbarians. Take xiongnu as example, Han dynasty coexisted with them almost 40 yrs till 霍去病封狼居胥， 匈奴分裂成了南北匈奴。南匈奴并入汉朝，北匈奴消失在历史记录中。汉朝没有亡于外族，魏晋都是汉人。辽和北宋结盟，后被金灭。北宋迁都为南宋，后同被元灭。再后来就是明。the history of Han has lasted for thousands of yrs, a civilization was always defeated by barbarians won’t survive till today. We lost we won-it’s an intertwined process.
I wonder if R.A. Salvatore was inspired by wu xia writing. The way he describes his combat definitely feels like some Kung fu madness. Every flick of drizzts blades is accounted for lol.
@@amandajean7738 i don't many Gary stus or Mary sues that have no choice but to outlive everyone they know and love. It's not as if drizzt hasn't had his plentiful share of troubles, he just also happens to be a bit OP. I'd argue that the dragonborn is a much bigger gary stu. Drizzts skills were honed in brutal combat in menzobberanzan, not granted to him by birth. The only supernatural power he has is guenhwyvar... and that option has failed him plenty of times. I suggest you actually read the books instead, that way you're not just talking out your ass. Regis the halfling tho... definitely a Mary Sue. Fucking Hobbits and their magic bling....
Currently reading the last book in Legends of the Condor Heroes, hoping more will be translated. Thinking about going for Romance of the Three Kingdoms, or Water Margin, after this.
You should read The Return of the Condor Heroes and then, Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber. These two are part of the Condor Heroes trilogy. After you finished those 3, I recommend Laughing in The Wind, Semi Gods and Demi Devils. These two are so cool.
They are Chinese classics and I recommend watching them. But on a note, "Romance of 3 Kingdoms" isn't wuxia. "Water Damp" is close, but the martial art aspect isn't strong enough to be called your typical wuxia
I would be very interested if you have read Fond Lee's Green Bones Trilogy which draws from the Wuxia genre - and what your thoughts are on how she changes the tropes for a Western audience.
i remember about reading comic adaption of the hero shed no tear and when i read the original novel it has noting in common with the comic i read but it actually good though.
Thanks for the knowledge! Would love an analysis video on Jin Yong's condor heroes trilogy. What events are real and which characters are real historical characters etc.
I wound say old western movies resemble certain values of Wuxia where the protagonists try to do the "right" thing in a either anarchy or oppressed environment.
Jin Yong's wuxia successor is likely going to be Solomon Li, a Taoist philosopher, author, and martial arts teacher who grew up loving Jin Yong's works. His debut series, "New Winds Move the Martial Air", is one of the better examples of classic wuxia in the modern world, even though there have been other books trying to go for the same approach.
CJ thank you for this Video... Also guy's Wuxia is superior than xian xia. Please also made video about sect like Wudang, Hua San, Shaolin, And so on. And Kang Ouw. Don't forget about that Also we Indonesian have Khoo Ping Hoo.
Wuxia is based on real culture, ancient techniques, and sometimes real history. While Xian Xia is just fantasy stories for kids and teenagers. And Xian Xia only becomes a thing all because of Wuxia.
Interesting, I haven't read any wuxia novels, and I don't remember where I got this comparison from, but my impression has always been that it and Westerns (as in cowboys in the American west, which I admittedly have also not really watched, haha) are more or less the same genre. After hearing your description, I still feel like this fits pretty well (especially in comparison to kung fu movies)
I don't know much about Chinese martial arts movies and dramas, but once, I happened to watch a super long Chinese wuxia drama with my former partner, which turned out to be an excellent show. I don't recall the title, but it was like a Chinese version of "The Count of Monte Christo", about a young hero who was betrayed, disfigured, and came back as a different personality who sprung brilliant plots of revenge on all those who harmed him and his family, including the emperor. It was really good. My former partner said it was the best rated Chinese wuxia drama for many years.
That series is called" Nirvana in Fire". It's on CZcams with English subtitles. I highly recommend it too. One of the best Chinese Wuxia series ever made.
A Xia does not need to be a kung fu fighting Chinese person. What other heroic figures do you think fit the Xia archetype?
Sorry to ask a sensible question wihout looking at the video yet (I'm busy right now), but did you will adress the recuring racism problem of modern Wuxia/cultivator novel?
The "Xia" Dynasty
Not quite related I guess, but in the Kill Bill Diary, David Carradine made the point that the months of training the cast got for the movie was in Wuxia, not Kung Fu. They all learn to fly with wires, including him. There was a scene shot with Bill fighting alone against a bunch of guys and winning. Would that make of Bill a secret Xia hero?
The manga Doctor Big Beard - 流氓侠医， tells of a doctor who possessed extraordinary medical skills who could have made it big in a private hospital yet chose to serve the underbelly of society. He healed beggars, prostitutes, deserving gangsters, etc. Not only did he restore their physical well-being, he also cared for their mental states as well. Definitely a 侠医.
@Malaysia Viral Video Well their the comics "Cultivator vs super heroes" where the ancient Chinese looking protagonists easily defeat the super hero based on well known not Chinese characters.
So basicly One Punch Man wihout the humor and social commentary, but with nationalist undertone.
Based on some of my research it seems to be a regular problem with Chinese novels and comics.
This wuxia literary culture also strongly influences unique Indonesian "silat" genre, an unmistakably Chinese kung fu stuff with Indonesian Nusantara setting, from Kho Ping Hoo's "Bu Kek Siansu" which adapted into Angling Dharma, "Alap-Alap Laut Kidul" (Southern Sea's Falcon), "Bagus Sajiwo", and many others. Bastian Tito also wrote a famous silat character "Wiro Sableng", a humorous martial artist that scours the entire semi-fictional Nusantara setting to serve justice, which has been adapted to various cinema films.
As for the myth, we know some myth figures such as Si Pitung who cultivate his power, and tend to stick his mentor's ideals for proctect the weak from colonialist evil
Great video. I think the appeal of the Wuxia genre comes from the fact it gives power to the common people. Most of the protagonists are from humble or at least non-noble background yet through hard work can achieve powers that let them defy the established order.
Usually the side characters defy the established order and the protagonists protect it. Even the protagonists that become reclusive contribute to maintaining order before they leave. That is far more common throughout Chinese literature.
@@JinFX Guo Jing outright told Kublai that he was fighting to protect the people and not the corrupt Song Dynasty.
Yang Guo was an anarchists who took pleasure at giving the finger to convention.
Zhang Wuji & Chen Jialuo were outright rebels fighting against the established governments.
Although the protagonist would sometimes fight to maintain to status quo, this was to protect the people not to support the establishment.
@@426mak The established order is Chinese traditional philosophy, not the government establishment. Also Jin Yong heavily relied on Chinese religious characters in creating his characters. In China the dynasty is tasked with maintaining order and righteousness, not the other way around.
Guo Jing growing up in Mongolia saw that Temujin was a hero but turned against him because of the siege at Samarkand. Also Temujin is central to the novel and probably the antagonist. I was thinking more along the lines of the four greats as each defying tradition in their own way but then Guo Jing comes and rights their wrongs or brings them peace. Each of them has some great internal conflict that reflects their corruption of beliefs. He also saves the lives or souls of many other characters, and you can even include Temujin and Tuolei in there. Guo Jing was born in the Song but he only fully returns to the Song to stop the Mongol invasion which he saw while on campaign to be against Chinese tradition.
Yang Guo of course rebelled first against Guo Jing, then Quanzhen, and then the taboo of marrying a different generation, but the point of the novel was that righteousness is not about fussing over the fine details, in light of the deterioration of the many schools as Song society as a whole declined and corrupted, tradition was being lost and Yang Guo rediscovered it through his travels and later heroics. Yang Guo even though he was eccentric like the four greats, saved the established order at the Battle of Xiangyang and saved powerful martial arts traditions from Dugu and Wang Chongyang. Wang Chongyang was also the hidden protagonist, who went underground to protect the Nine Yin Manual from the clutches of the four greats, and the Quanzhen of his time was a beacon of light, even though it was Jin and not Song. Again the side characters are the ones really defying the established order, which causes their side conflicts.
Zhang Wuji was born into the Ming cult, so he did not choose to rebel against the orthodoxy or the government, and it's pretty clear that the Ming cult is continuous with the Ming dynasty that restores order after the decline of the Yuan. The orthodoxy is also painted as outcasting the cult only because of a conspiracy, and they eventually become uneasy allies. The orthodoxy eventually fully embraces Zhang Wuji and Zhang Sanfeng, who is also a hidden protagonist. The orthodoxy school leaders are all vividly described as having their illnesses that Zhang Wuji heals one by one, analogous to their deviations from true orthodoxy being corrected by the truth bringer that is Zhang Wuji. It's easy to see why this novel would be less popular because there are less complexities in the core characters, even Zhao Min is a bit simple.
Chen Jialuo is an earlier character, and I don't know his story, but I believe Jin Yong meant for the Qing to be anti-villains as he does later in Deer and Cauldron and maybe Flying Fox. Chen Jialuo tried to re-establish what he believed in, the Ming. Again the major political powers and schools are central to the stories but they are not the most important characters.
@@JinFX And Jin Yong understood the ideal that the Dynasty should bring law and order but also recognized the truth that if often fails to do so and such he created characters to bring justice to the people.
GJ was the very antithesis of the traditional Chinese hero. Raised in a barbarian society, barely literate and almost ignorant of Chinese etiquette he is the last person you would expect to champion Chinese culture.
The Four Greats, with the exception of Northern Beggar took themselves out of society. Eastern Heretic disillusioned by the Song treatment of his ancestor. Southern Monarch by his personal demons and Western Venom by his own ambitions. That Eastern Heretic and Southern Monarch ended up in Xiangyang was pure coincidence and neither of them was there to save traditional Chinese values.
That goes for Yang Guo as well. He showed up in Xiangyang purely to save Guo Xiang, not because he wanted to save the city. His inheritance of Dugu Qiubai skill was also a gesture of defiance for DQB was the Sword Devil, who saw himself as someone outside of convention and tradition forging his own path. With Wang Chongyan, YG inherited his forbidden love that defied tradition not his patriotism.
ZWJ was not born into the Ming Cult but had the position thrust upon him when he saved them from annihilation. In fact his pedigree as the son as of a Wudang Hero and Lady of the Eagle Cult was breaking tradition. Not only was his parent's love forbidden, but they were never formally married a big taboo to traditional Chinese.
His treatment of the orthodox schools was a reflection of his benevolence. He would save anyone in trouble regardless of whether they were orthodox or not.
Chen Jialuo is JY most failed character. Fighting for a lost cause and sacrificing the two most important women in his life. He is an example of what happens when one stubbornly sticks to tradition. You not only fail but lose everything that as truly important.
@@426mak I like how we can interpret the story in different ways. Chinese politics and religion were as not focused on law and order of ideas, but the scholarship and morality of persons. The Wulin and heroes are outside the law already, but that only makes them more reliant on religion and philosophy. They are not police or vigilantes, but followers of teachings. So the conflicts in Wuxia and other Chinese stories come from Chinese philosophies, not politics or etiquette. For an example outside Wuxia, Mulan is another barbarian who breaks laws but is celebrated for her filial piety and fealty.
Guo Jing received a good philosophical education, whereas Yang Kang learned more martial and social skills but lacked philosophical guidance. (This is Temujin being a better organizer than the Jin princes.) Guo Jing is a champion of Chinese culture even if he'd make a really bad Tiktoker. The Northern Beggar also took himself out of society and neglected his sect, but he just appears so often because of his gluttony vice. The four greats create conflict, not resolve them.
Yang Guo saves a lot of people throughout his life, but the bigger thing is he fully learned Quanzhen religious teachings unlike his father and peers who were too busy with politics over philosophy. So he was more educated and therefore became more powerful than them. Zhang Wuji was the same with Wudang philosophy.
As a kid growing up in the Philippines, I loved Condor Heroes (with Liu Yifei as Xiaolongnü) and the Suikoden JRPG. Then read the OG Water Margin as an adult. :)
I never expected that another Filipino will know and love Condor Heroes.
@@c.d.s.g9742 it was on Channel 7 before haha
R U chinese ethnic?
I was weaned on Sunday morning Chinese shows on rpn 9. It was cc in Mandarin, too. Did not understand anything but so fascinated.
Im Gen X tho, so that was ages ago.
With so many version of Condor Heroes, yet, no one can play the role better than Liu YiFei.
*Wuxia* (especially new school) in the terminology of RPG focus on the 'Jiang Hu' as a world setting, which is basically the 'undercurrent' beneath civil society, and martial arts as the combat system. The gangs, rebels, wanderers, smugglers, mercenaries, all who walks between the respectable society and the shadow economy, the secret society, the crime stories. So Wuxia with more historical contexts tend to be set in unstable period in history. If there is a western video game that most embodied the ethos of Wuxia, it would be Assassin's Creed, in particular Black Flag. Star Wars is also very Wuxia, but not because of the space magic which only represents the combat system. It's more about the idea of the conflicts of the undercurrents of society. Rebels, recruiting criminals to fight the empire. The colorful characters that pop up all over the place while empire fought across the stars. It's the type of concept Wuxia is build on. The reason you use John Wick, it's because it's the same concept. The assassins, the criminals, the undercurrent of civil society.
In fairness, Edward Kenney wasn't really sticking to a code of ethics, in my opinion. There weren't really lines he didn't cross, just lines he wasn't being asked to cross. He's certainly the closest in terms of being independent, but I don't think that that makes him Xia.
@@Duiker36 Ah... but a personal code of ethics was never really necessary and tends to be nebulous. It's just something we tend to associate with the protagonist. Jin Yong's story in particular tends to emphasize on the hypocrisy of Xia. The 'orthodoxy' tend to be 'polite' on the surface, but mostly asshole underneath. When people address a group as '各路英雄', there is rarely any actual 英雄 among them. Kenway would be call a ‘绿林好汉’ which often associate with the idea of Robinhood because of the Water Margin but really it's just the polite way of calling someone a highwayman.
No Chinese thinks that the Wuxia novel story is history. But the Wuxia story joins a large number of historical backgrounds, historical people, Taoism (yin and yang) and traditional culture. The content is also very like ancient China.
@@barbiebarbie1813 Of course it's not history (I didn't say it is). It's fiction, even historical fictions are still fiction.
The closed wuxia like video game is the red dead series, that's basically wuxia but in the wild west
“侠之大者，为国为民” One of the most important feature of Jinyong's Xia is nationalism, which is not talked about in this video.
I've been slowly enjoying the genre bit by bit. I had no idea it went back so far.
I literally just started reading Jin Yong's "A Hero Is Born" last week and it is hands down the best book I've read this year! Really appreciate the historical and cultural context you've offered in this video.
Now on Book 2😸
@@tonerikohime this series is one of my favs from Jin Yong!!! i'm glad you like it too!
The sequels in the trilogy are even better in my opinion. Legend (the 1st) is a very much straightforward Wuxia story, Return (the 2nd) starts to turn against and question the heroes we encountered in Legend, Heavenly-Dragon (the 3rd) lets chaos take over and overturns the entire order so beloved in Legend.
Cj your presence on this site is a breath of fresh air
Don't know why this appears in my rec. But as a Westerner, I grew up liking Eastern cinemas very much via the work of masters like Kurosawa, Kobayashi (whose masterpiece "Hara Kiri", to me, belongs to the pantheon of World's greatest movies ever made), and latter generation like Kitano (Zatoichi). Then, a few Chinese friends introduced me to the genre of Chinese Wuxia, mostly HongKong flics of the 90's, and I was surprised to see how different the two cultures were. At the time, I thought there must be a great similarity between Chinese and Japanese martial arts movies. Now of course, I know that I was provincial at the time to think East Asian cultures were alike. Just like there are differences between Italian and German operas, differences between Japanese and Chinese martial arts should be expected. That said, I must make a disclaimer that I am not a connoisseur of Chinese dramas, although I thoroughly love one of the few I saw, "The Romance of Three Kingdom" (2010), which I also think a World classic. (But I don't think most Chinese view such historical drama as Wuxia?)
Wuxia has a typical focus on the kung fu and martial prowess of the character, The Romance of Three Kingdoms focus on the stories, although it discusses some martial prowess of its characters like Lu Bu or Guan Yu. Like typical run-of-the-mill Shonen anime/manga, the MC of a wuxia typically is on a quest to learn secret ancient kung fu technique that should let him defeat new villains for various motives. They are either good vs evil (e.g. Jin Yong's "The Smiling, Proud Wanderer", my late father's favourite), restoring justice (e.g. "Fong Sai Yuk"), or patriotic (e.g., contemporary ones like Wong Fei Hung's tales, stories of Ip-man, Huo Yuanjia's "Fearless"). There are some religious elements too like in The Legends of 8 Immortals or Journey to The West, each featured characters with various martial arts ability and use them to do justice in vigilantism manner (e.g. Sun Wukong got punished for doing the "right" thing). Since The Romance doesn't have that much detailed of a fight, it instead focuses on the strategies instead of one's martial might.
There are cross genre between historical literatures like "The Romance of Three Kingdoms" and Wuxia. I think "Water Margin" could classify as such, since most of Song Jiang's gang of rebels (much like Robin Hood or Money Heist gangs) are martial artists, especially known is Wu Song, known in here as "Tiger-slaying hero". These classic stories, full of pompous and sometimes ridiculously magnamous characters are often spoofed in Master Q's comic.
Through these movies, you will learn a lot of East Asian values and cultures.
Bear in mind, you might have encountered similar stories or plotlines in many famous cartoons or anime / manga. For example, the very famous Japanese RPG game "Suikoden" is none other than Japanese take on "Water Margin" (Shui hu zhuan). In turn, it also influences quite a lot of how East Asians portray "battles" like sports, you see a lot of kung fu magic BS in anime like Kuroko no Basket.
No, "Romance of 3 Kindom" is a historical classic, it's not within wuxia genre.
The wuxia genre is typically about heroic deeds via the means of martial arts, so the 2 main focuses of wuxia is the "hero", and the "martial art", these 2 focuses drive the story forward. Among Chinese 4 epics, "Water Margin" feels more wuxia than the rest (including "Romance of 3 Kingdoms"), but overall the "martial art" side isn't exactly as well-described or important as modern wuxia.
In that sense, if you've ever watched "Kungfu Hustle", it can be somewhat considered a wuxia movie. In fact, it has lots of references from wuxia novels (some of which you can read in my recommendation below)
If my explanation is still too vague, I recommend watching some adaptations of classic wuxia novels (I don't recommend watching any adaptations that were produced AFTER 2010 though, because Chinese film-making of wuxia fictions had dropped badly in terms of qualities of acting, scripting and choreography)
1. Demi-god and Semi-devil: The story is heavily influenced by Buddhism philosophies, but if you don't understand those, it's still fine because the story covers lots of real life concepts, such as: heroism, kindness, love, racism, patriotic, etc. You may find it confusing at first because there are 3 protagonists, but I think that's why watching this story is better than reading.
Imo the 1997 adaptation of this story is the best one, they have the best actors, the best choreography and has the most success in translating the original morals of the novel. But if you can't find this film with the translations you need, the 2003 adaptation is also good.
Main martial arts: 28-Subduing Dragon Palms, Beiming Powers, Six Solar Palms of Heavenly Mountain, Lingbo Footwork, Spirit Blade of Six Divine Meridians, Yijin Jing (Muscle-Tendon Change Manual), etc
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2. The Legend of the Condor Hero: Typical underdog story. The journey of the an orphan with lack of talent in martial arts to become a hero that was among the best fighters of China, also the struggle between morality (love, patriotic, etc) and power (supreme martial art, royalty, etc)
Main martial arts: 9 Yin True Classic (literally involved in 90% of events of the story), 18-Dragon Subduing Palms, Peach Blossom Falling Leaves Palm, Toad Kungfu, Yi Yang Finger, Dog Beating Staff, Iron Palm, etc
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3. The Return of the Condor Hero: The sequel to #2. The focus of the story is the protagonist's romance that were hindered by feudal prejudices, and his struggle between revenging for his own father and the duty to protect his country
Main martial arts: Swordplay of Jade Maiden, Melancholic Palms, 18-Dragon Subduing Palms, etc
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4. The Smiling, Proud Wanderer: One of the main focuses of this story is their "Greed" for power, in the form of a secret swordmanship as well as power to rule over others. The other one is about "What makes someone good or evil".
I have watched 2 adaptations of this novel, although they're entertaining, I think they don't do that well in translating the dramas and the author's intention into films, so I suggest you read the novel.
Main martial arts: 9 Swords of Dugu ("Dugu" means "Lonely person"), Bixie Sword Manial (the main focus of the story), Star Sucking Skill, etc
Romance of 3K (novel adaptation) is not typically considered Wuxia, but there ARE wuxia shows based on the Three Kingdoms period.
@@shazamsakazaki Romance of 3 Kingdom technically is a fiction story. The main event and characters were there in the three kingdom era. Actually what going on doesn't really match totally in all the historical records and documents at that time.
Japan's "Elegant Traditional Culture" is replicated from ancient China (different dynasties). Including Japanese martial arts (karate, ninja ...).
I was thinking that Wu Xia sounds a lot like vigilante stories, like Batman or Spiderman, and then when you mentioned them near the end I was very proud of myself lol... one of the stories you mentioned actually reminded me a lot of The Punisher, but I was definitely stuck in a comic book mindset, so John Wick didn't occur to me. But yeah, John Wick sounds like he fits in :D
Government not meddling into the business of the world of xia is also a very common trope of wuxia literature.
In John Wick 1, a police officer visited John Wick's house, asked few questions and just left without doing anything. This felt like the wuxia trope of Government not interfering.
@@bloodmure1 Not exactly the case. One of main force of "Flying fox of Snowy Mountain" (a classic wuxia novel btw) is the Qing government, the protagonist Lu Ding Ji is somewhat a government officer, etc
I don't think John Wick fits in "wuxia" genre, considering he fits the "heroic" aspect, but doesn't on the "martial art" one. Wuxia isn't just about "heroes fighting martial art", but martial art is the main focus and the driving force of a wuxia story.
Wuxia also involved it environment /atmosphere, not just focus on a character. Like underground society aka gangs but with certain attitudes and mannerism. Kind of like Peaky Blinders series.
@@bloodmure1 Not exactly, it is more of 2 world that trying not to crash with each other hard. Wuxia world is like an underground society.
There are several Jin Young novel also imply the characters involved in war against government, or with government against others countries(Gou Jing is one of those) Kind of like the world of samurai.
Jin Yong (Louis cha) is definitely my favourite wuxia writer. He wrote the condor heroes, the heavenly sword and dragon sabre, the smiling proud wanderer, the deer and the cauldron, and loads of more books.
what's your favorite one and your favorite character?
@@hagongda123 My favourite book would be Heavenly Sword and Dragon Sabre (倚天屠龙记) and my favourite character is Zhang Sanfeng (张三丰）
@@dan_was_here9328 not the best of Jin Yong
It is amazing how you managed to summarize so much and contain so much information and present it in understandably easy flowing way. Thank you so much and please continue enriching us with culture so rich and beautiful. 🌹👏🏻
The feeling of righteousness and heroism exhibited by the characters drew me into these stories just as much as the fantastical martial arts did when I was a child. I'm still pretty addicted to these stories haha.
He did it! Well done, CJ!
wuxia is like star wars, chi is like the force, flows through us and bonds the universe together and can be used to fly, force palm and force lightning, such as in crouching tiger, no light sabers but sword and spears, jinyong has light and dark side in legend of condor, where the main antagonist got strong but become mad man from practising the dark scrolls, the protagonists is guojing and huangrong very much like luke and leia
like leia, huang rong is a badass that is the master of the beggars faction, daughter of the east master, disciple of the north master.
Chi is not like the force. The force is like chi. Star Wars borrowed its elements from East Asia, not the other way around
That's because Star Wars is not only openly inspired by Kurosawa's works, but in general is a cheap copy of a lot of wuxia stuff, specially Condor Heroes. Star Wars is the most over-hyped thing in the world.
There is even a video uploaded by a Mongolian girl, how for SW's "A New Hope" Portman's outfit was a straight steal from a traditional Mongolian costume. Now, it would have been all right if they had had the decency of stating where they took it from, but no! they say it was straight out of Lucas' fantastic mind.
Portman's name Padme Amidala, is derived from Buddha Amida (Amithaba) what else? isn't Neeson's character actually called Hong Qi Gong lol? and there is also one called Ahsoka, obviously from King Ashoka.
What is outrageous is how they never had the decency to admit where they took all that from. But sure, it was catered to western audiences that had no idea about anything of this.
Pretty much
Agree, but not with ur description about madman, I'd just go with crazy, cuz ouyang Feng just turns crazy and even got his name lol
although I'm 2000s kid in Korea, I'm very familiar with works of Jin Yong! 倚天屠龍記 is my favorite
Wow, this is great. My favorite content of yours is when you dissect asian culture/tropes/literature.
Thank you so much! I love the Wuxia genre so much and am bummed that so few books are available in English.
Great breakdown of the history of Wu Xia, CJ! I would love for you to delve into the LOCH/ROCH series, and speak on the religious and cultural themes that are littered throughout the two stories. I remember seeing a discussion online where a commenter said Guo Jing was the embodiment of the ideal Confucian hero, and contrasted it to Yang Guo's portrayal as a symbol of Buddhist ideals. It has been years so I don't remember all the details, but I'm sure you'd be able to break it down much more eloquently!
Couldn't get it more wrong. They are both Taoist way.
Thank you CJ and crew for all of your fantastic videos. I have learned so much from you. Appreciate all of your hard work very much. I especially enjoyed your series on Romance of the Three Kingdoms.
In my country (Indonesia) the most Popular Wuxia is Journey To The West thanks to Dicky cheung's tv series adaptation, we called it as Kera Sakti (lit. Magical Monkey) and the opening song of that series was covered by a local rap group
My favourite wuxia book is "The Smiling, Proud Wanderer", my favourite wuxia film is the 1997 version of "Demi-gods and Semi-devils"
The wuxia series I still remember include: 笑傲江湖， 包清天（not sure if it classifies as such), and 白蛇传。
I remember watching a wuxia series where two female wuxias had to find two powerful swords in caves, but can't remember the name of it.
Actually 白蛇传 is some kind of 仙侠，xian xia (fairy xia)。wu means kongfu，xia means hero.
In Wuxia world all people are human. Meanwhile xian xia(仙侠）may have all kinds of creatures from ancient myths.
Yeah 笑傲江湖 and 包青天 are one of the classics for me
@@louiswu6300 白蛇传 classifies as 玄幻 (supernatural) I believe. Usually, if there is no key characters from the heavenly realm, it is not 仙侠。Although there is a lot of crossovers.
@@YongShengOng 玄幻和仙侠真没什么区别
@@YongShengOng 白蛇还是比較仙侠的。毕竟多數是接触了妖和仙。
玄幻則沒那麼偏向妖仙的。玄幻比較是凡人修練到神化的境界，涉及宇宙/界面 之類的，比較接触到一點點科幻的。
玄幻和仙侠的區別是沒那麼的強調與劃清人，妖，魔，仙的界線。
玄幻是fantasy了, 不是supernatural。就是The Lord of the Ring, Game of Thrones 那種的題材。
The Star Wars series can be considered as Wuxia epics. George Lucas drew a lot of his inspirations from Japanese samurais genre.
no the force thing come from Dune.
The Last Jedi..and the prequels..specifically revenge of the sith feel like wuxia films..even the last jedis throne room fight, with fighters standing back, posing with weapons..reminds me of shaw brothers wuxia..I know people didnt like last jedi but...I absolutely loved it
Jin Yong himself had stated that the essence of Wuxia is in xia - chivalrous actions, and not wu - martial prowess.
Great vid!
Some of his main character(Wei Xiaobao) sucks at martial art but are still Xia
@@aokhoinguyenang3992
I really wouldn’t call Wei Xiaobao a xia. He is loyal to his friends and holds real affection for his lovers but ultimately, his actions are based on how best to benefit himself.
As the protagonist of Jin Yong’s last novel, many interpret Wei Xiaobao as the author’s way of telling his readers that in the real world, it is not any xia but someone like Wei who would survive and thrive. Ultimately, the wuxia concept remains a fantasy.
My favorite line from JY goes something like:
Those of the small xia protect the weak from the wicked strong
Those of the great xia serves the country and the people.
@@426mak I think that came from the Condor Hero
@@aokhoinguyenang3992 Return of the condor hero when Guo Jing was explaining xia to Yang Guo
I think if you don't know Chinese culture and history，you may never know many things in wuxia， that‘s why Jin Yong never win a nobel prize just because the judges who are foreigner cannot understand these
I've got to hand it to you CJ. I have always had an inquisitive curiosity for foreign philosophy and mysticism. Your channel serves as a conduit for deeper research on my part. I've purchased a few books and movies after seeing them mentioned here. Overall, thanks bro.
Cool History Bros: Water Margin has influenced whatever gacha hell you are playing right now.
*Me playing Fate/Grand Order while listening to him in the background: I feel personally attacked*
Thanks for making this! I especially like that you've taken the time to define xia given that its such a thick concept and encapsulates so much. I'll probably be referring to Batxia and Spiderxia forever now.
As an English-only reader, I've been starved of translations of wuxia fiction. Its only thanks to fan translations that I've been able to get stuck into Gu Long's wonderfully pulpy, witty stories. I'll shill for them here then. Everyone should check out Handsome Siblings on Netflix, its an excellent adaptation despite the strictures of Chinese censorship.
I love wuxia, especially the Xianxia sub genre mostly because of an obsession I have with Sun Wukong and Xi you ji. I've seen so many versions. Thankyou for explaining this for me.
Wow, thanks for this video. I was lost, now I finally understood what I watching in all those series.😁
Nice video, loved following the whole historical development of this genre. Nice to see how jp and chi literature influenced each other back then too, though rather than suikoden I thought of rurouni kenshin hahaha. Agree that there is less wuxia and more xianxia instead nowadays. I love the thrill of wuxia but definitely not saying no to the pretty world of xianxia and danmei adaptations (where my shanren at).
You are Shanren? Me too
Nowadays, it more develop into 玄幻/玄幻武侠(Xuan Huan/Xuan Huan Wuxia, aka fantasy series of wuxia). Most of the chinese anime that adapted from novel in China are fantasy wuxia genre, kind of like The Lord of The Ring or Games of Thrones kind of setting.
The traditional wuxia meet with xianxia hence developed xuanhuan wuxia. Xianxia is more fixed on heavens/angels/fairy/demons/God kind of settings while xuanhuan is more of the journey of human to train and becoming godly(and the fantasy genre make it more wide, the story not fixed in the time line, universe or the world Earth that we know of.)
I love wuxia cinema so much. One of my favourite cinematic movements for sure And it's great to see Stephen Teo's research on this mentioned. His 'wuxia tradition' book is a must read.
I'll get around to reading the classics and watching some television some time, but I've always found succinct choreography under 2 hours to be more appealing. I did love the 2008 LOCH when I watched it years ago. Didn't finish though!
Was kinda surprised you didn’t address/mention the Jiang Hu, martial world concept that in someway makes a connected story universe
It is kind of a new phenomenon that's more often used in new school wuxia, which was inspired by the rivalry of Hong Kong's martial arts schools. As far as I can tell, it was hardly present in older works. The bandits in water margin were outlaws, they're not trying to become the number 1 fighter in wulin.
@@CoolHistoryBros ahh, gotcha. Same with qigong I’m assuming?
Also, I kinda thought the Avatar the Last Airbender and AMC’s into the badlands were American takes on wuxia; what do you think?
@@TheKillakick I haven't watched Into the Badlands, so I can't comment about it. As for Avatar, it is kinda complicated, because it was Aang's destiny to bring peace. It wasn't 100% his will.
"The chosen" one trope don't really exist in ancient China and Japan. In Buddhism, Maitreya, the future Buddha don't come to stop war or solve any worldly problems either.
He did mention Wulin
Jin Yong is overwhelminhly popular in my country Vietnam. Back in the 60s when a new chapter of his novel is released on the daily newspaper Mingpao in Hongkong, there'd be an airplane deliver the newspapers to Saigon, Vietnam on the very same day, then Vietnamese agencies will quickly translate and publish the chapters on their newspaper the very next day. Characters like Guo Jing, Yang Guo, Duan Yu... have become iconic and well-known in Vietnam for decades
New adaptation of his novels usually got translated into Vietnamese pretty quickly once they come out
@@aokhoinguyenang3992 Yes, but the new adaptations aren't as well received as the classic TVB adaptations from the 80s 90s
@@kemurajohn1249 Because nowadays people has more shows to watch(thanks to the internet) & they likely have watch at least 1 or 2 adaptation before thus don't feel the need to watch the same thing twice
Not to mention Vietnam has published and continues to write hundreds of their own Wuxia novels since the 20th century
@@kemurajohn1249 There aren't a single good Wuxia adaptations since 2010. Look at Qiao Feng of the 1997 version and 2013 version, anyone can tell the 1997 version is superior in everyway
I am fascinated by Chinese period drama's and found this very informative and interesting. I have a lot to learn.
Nice video. Maybe the reason why wuxia novels are almost unknown in the West it's because they are too Chinese, too embedded in Chinese culture, history and values for a foreign reader to really relate. A Japanese or Korean reader could still relate to the narrative, but for a Westerner it's the tale of an alien world.
It would be like showing "Boris" to a Chinese viewer. "Boris" is an Italian comedy TV series, a satire of the Italian television. It's really funny, but to laugh you need a deep understanding of Italian customs, society and values. No one laughs for a joke that needs an explanation.
Just try watching "Kungfu Hustle" first. It's really close to your general wuxia stories, most of the ideas in there are reference to wuxia culture. If you like the movie, maybe you can like wuxia genre as well.
@@shazamsakazaki it's not about liking, but about relating. One can still like the product of a distant culture, but there is always a sense of otherness that prevents a full appreciation or understanding. It's like the "culturally uncanny" sensation mentioned in the video about "Avatar: The Last Airbender".
@@alessandrodelogu7931 No I don't mean it as an insult or something. I only suggest this as an option so that you can see if wuxia genre is within your liking or not
@@shazamsakazaki I'm not offended at all. I've watched "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon", "Hero" and other wuxia and chanbara movies and I enjoyed them. But they are things you like if you already like the genre. Here they are a niche product.
I think you should try the Star War series, those movies has a lot of Wu Xia elements in it. George Lucas probably borrowed a lot of inspirations from the East.
My father often told me about how he and his sister waited in line in front of the printing press in Bangkok for latest translation of chapter of Jin Yong's novel when he was young. The readers were insatiable, they were translating one chapter at a time, translating and selling new chapter like every other day. Then when they have enough chapter they repack them into a volume and sell them again they way they do comic books. Bunch of addicts.
So the xia (俠) are like the Japanese delinquent student: the banchou (番長) or sukeban (スケバン/助番), who are almost exactly how you described them, they have their own sense of justice.
Actually, this is one of the best Videos you have done. Because these things are very important to me. As far as the law goes, if it isn't Just and Compassionate, it's not a useful Law in my opinion.
the breadth and depth of research is very impressive, i got alot out of this. great stuff.
I know of many heroic figuers in history so my list is long but in modern times, in addition to military veterans, some police officers and Scholars including Cool History Bros because helping people understand the value of history and its lessons is a heroic endeavor. And please don't let my praise go to your head Cool History Bros. As one of my Chinese Friends says " If you let praise over-inflate your ego, your head will turn into a road apple meat bun. And you would look really silly with a road apple meat bun for a head.😊
I read all the Jin Yong's Wu Xia novels (13 of them) and he's still hands down the best one of them all (I read all the other authors contemporary of his time and after).
Your video provide a wonderful historical context for the genre of Wuxia!!
Great job! Excellent encapsulation.
John Wick as Xia.
OK. I subscribed. This is very educational. Like. I look forward to your Xian Xia episode in future.
10:52 For those who don't know. The clip here is from the 1998 adaptation of the Water Margin.
That was a classic of this adaptation
@@fraderiktan1505 Its my favorite of the many adaptations, even though it was short and had to skip a lot of characters, I still feel like it still holds up as a great adaptation. It also got me into the 范阳笠 hat, which has made many appearances in settings during the Song-Ming era
Love your channel so much man !
Here is a bunch of unrelated point:
_ Judge Bao movies, shows,... will never be officially translated into English because of obvious reason: The real historical figure is a normal Chinese man but they made him bl@ck(in plays the serious character wear a black mask), then add a crescent moon scar/birthmark(depend on the story) on his forehead symbolizing the light of the moon exposing injustice hiding in the dark
_ My favorite Jin Yong shows are the ones where the story affect the real history & setting instead of just confining itself in the underworld(martial art world) making the setting feel alive & the character's actions feel more important but not the only thing in the universe happening. Also not having a hero upholding it own codes & laws interact with the real law just don't use this element to its full potential
_ My favorite Duke of Deer Mountain adaptation is the 2000 one: It feel completed because of the changes(combining characters like the fake queen dowager & 1 of the MC wives, not killing Wu San-kuei one of the big bad off screen,...) the others felt constrained buy the 50+ episodes format if they explore 2 arc they have to shorten 1 probably because the novel is too long(I haven't read the novel yet, just the impression I got from watching the adaptation)
_ I don't like using the Cultivation translation it doesn't feel right
Some adaptation changes around 2000s are because Jin Yong edited his novels. He continued changing them after too but the newest editions aren't as popular.
@@JinFX I also didn't like Demi Gods & Semi Devils new ending
I don't think the changes in the Duke of Deer Mountain 2000 is because of the book since adaptation after it is very similar to the one before it & feature none of the changes like combining the fake queen dowager(important in the beginning but not at the end) & Su Quan(appear in the middle but become important at the end). These changes are based on the Royal Tramp(a film version of the story in 1992) version which was to condense the story for a film
I guess that makes much of the stuff I write witch/druid xia since they're often about pious individuals who are skilled in various occult disciplines with a moral code that often clashes with those in power and use those abilities to fight corrupt governments, fascistic organizations, sorcerers who abuse their occult knowledge for the purpose of evil, supernatural monsters, and other such things. They generally do not care for human laws, only what is righteous on a cosmic scale and are more-a-less living instruments of the cosmic balance or perhaps "karma" at least in the sense that it is sometimes used. They have a sense of loyalty toward a host of Spirits and Deities as well as close friends and family, but not to any nation or associated government even if they have a deep love for their own culture.
“It’s a complete BS but you go along with it because it’s cool” - this is the most accurate commentary I’ve ever heard. we put logic on human power aside and enjoy the ride. Lol
condor heroes and vagabond is so thicc and expensive for indonesians 30 years ago. and for the substitute, we have glorious kho ping ho paperback
I'm a big fan for Condor Heroes! I was introduced to it when I first came to Japan in 2014.
I guess that explains why we never get to see a wuxia show about Dugu Qiubai, cause the dude wasn't heroic. He's just an OP guy and a sword craze who is obsessed in being the strongest.
A. It's mostly because Dugu Qiubai doesn't have an official novel written by the creator (Jin Yong), except for fan-fictions here and there
B. There is a TV series about him. But because there is no good source (Jin Yong never wrote about Dugu more than a few lines in The Legend of The Condor Hero and The Smiling Proud Wanderer), the film isn't exactly good and people tend to forget about it.
The first novel of the Condor Heroes trilogy just got translated and published in Germany this autumn. They marketed it as the chinese Lord of the Rings.
Considering the impact it has on East and South East Asia cultures, and most of the characters' motivations are greed (or ambition), it's not completely wrong
very interesting video! It was enlightening to learn so much about xia fiction. when you mention the influence of bandit xia on yakuza, I also couldn't help but wonder how much influence bandit xia has had on HK crime cinema. I def started thinking especially of stories where the protagonist is more of an "old school" honorable criminal who is loyal to friends and treat the gang as a family, set against an antagonist who is a "new school" criminal who is willing to betray anyone to get ahead and is more of a ruthless business type.
I’m a fan of Chinese cultivation fantasy novels and I practice nei gong and Tai chi
I’ll check it out it looks really fun ty
I don't know wether Qi is exist. But tendon and vessel is definitely exist.
Thanks, I now understand my fluffy yet highly enjoyable Chinese wuxia series much better!
THIS IS AMAZINGLY EDUCATIONAL! Thanks!!
How in the world do you get so good at your craft, no one can succeed you???
Also, I would like a list of must read wuxia novels.
Legend of Condor Heroes, Water Margin is a good start i guess.
Its because JY set the bench mark to high. The man was a literary genius adding elements of poetry, history, traditional and contemporary culture. His protagonists can be upright, rebellious, brutal, cunning or even amoral. The man cast too long a shadow.
To begin, Water Margin is a must because it will help you connect with the Xia concept and the plot is actually easy to understand. Jin Yongs are super if you pay your time in learning more about Chinese culture and terms like Yin Yang or qi. Start with the Condors Trilogy, then Demigods and Semi Devils because that is the Condors prequel, The Smiling Proud Wanderer, then Deer and Cauldron. After that you can read anything you like because in the Jinyongverse they are all connected.
For Gu Long you can start anywhere because they are kinda episodic and does not require a lot of history researchs
You can watch the kids anime Hongmao and Lantu if you want to know about Liang yushen
Water Margin isn't similar to general modern wuxia, because the "martial art" aspect of it is more of a tool to use than a force to drive the story like in modern wuxia. But it kinda generalized the idea of "heroism" of the genre, in terms of what make someone "heroic" and others not.
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Condor Trilogy consists of The Legend of The Condor Hero, The Return of The Condor Hero, Heavenly Sword and Dragon Saber
1st book, The Legend of The Condor Hero, is your typical underdog story, where the protagonist overcame hardships to become a heroic figure. The main theme of the story is patriotic and the idea of the good would be rewarded and the evil would be punished.
2nd book, The Return of The Condor Hero, focuses more on romance, and the core morality is a bit more complex. It's about the love against society prejudice and struggle between greater good (the protagonist's country freedom) and personal affair (vengeance for his father's death)
3rd book, Heavenly Sword and Dragon Saber, is a complete love story with martial arts element if you may say. The hardest trial for the protagonist was literally choosing who is the one he loved the most between the 4 girls who loved him. Even the author later regretted being too focused on romance and neglecting the relationships between male characters (father-son, teacher-student, master-servant)
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Demi Gods and Semi Devils is the prequel of the Condor trilogy, but you don't need to read one to understand the other. Although it's about Buddhism philosophies, non-Buddhist can still understand the story because it covers the most discussed topics in fictions: love, kindness, ambition, patriotic, racism, etc. The martial art world (wulin) was very well described in this story, with complex relationships and martial art system.
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The Smiling of Proud Wanderer main themes are "greed" (greed for power, greed for strength, greed for vengeance) and about what makes a person "good" or "evil". I highly recommend reading this because I haven't watched any adaptation that could cover the moral of the story to its fullest.
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Flying Fox of Snowy Mountain is much shorter than the ones I listed above. It's also more focused on dramas and less on action, but it's really worth the read. The story focused about greed and vengeance.
perhaps u wanna watch this wu xia?
czcams.com/video/fv4Jcq52ThQ/video.html
My favorite Wuxia is Thunderbolt Fantasy. It was made in collaboration with the Japanese writer Gen Urobuchi (Fate/Zero, Psycho-Pass, Madoka Magical) and the Taiwanese puppet company PILI.
Born in China and raised in Canada, I was Canadian af until age 17, when the Chinese Television station became free on cable TV. The first HK drama I watched was Jinyong's 笑傲江湖 1996 version and ever since I haven't became more Chinese than Canadian. 🤣
CJ, since you play D&D and since you have a robust general culture, have you thought of writing fiction?
EDIT: Awesome video, as always.
I have a project I will announce next year.
@@CoolHistoryBros *clicking sound* N o i c e .
Excellent video!! It is so concise yet very informative!! Great work!!
I live in the US and you truly teach me more about Asia history thankyou
Western: Super Heroes
China: Wuxia
👀 I guess enjoying adventures with heroes is a universal thing!
@@raisyrosye7656 We are the same human race...
As an oversea Vietnamese, I could never understand my older Vietnamese relatives' fascination for Chinese wuxia and kongfu stuff. I am ashamed to say some of them (due to old-age dementia) were not able to make a distinction between fantasy and realism. They believed that Chinese had secret martial arts that one man can defeat a 100 like in movies (they have mild dementia, I think). I pointed out that China for thousand years was often defeated by Northern barbarians, such as the XiongNu, Khitan (Liao dynasty?), occupied by the Jurchen (Jinn dynasty), by the Mongolian (Yuan dynasty), even the Oirats and Japanese pirates harassed China Ming dynasty, who eventually lost to the Manchurian Qing. So, I asked them, where was all these wonderful Shaolin and Wutang kungfus they watched when China was under sieged and occupied by these Northern barbarians? They had no answer.
Think of it like ourselves modern day with Marvel movies. And yes, if they have dementia, they'd probably think that. Worse things have been thought of from the dementia mind. Also, give them a break. You will invariably suffer from dementia yourself in old age as well.
As a Chinese living overseas, I was wondering why u believed Han was defeated by northern barbarians. Take xiongnu as example, Han dynasty coexisted with them almost 40 yrs till 霍去病封狼居胥， 匈奴分裂成了南北匈奴。南匈奴并入汉朝，北匈奴消失在历史记录中。汉朝没有亡于外族，魏晋都是汉人。辽和北宋结盟，后被金灭。北宋迁都为南宋，后同被元灭。再后来就是明。the history of Han has lasted for thousands of yrs, a civilization was always defeated by barbarians won’t survive till today. We lost we won-it’s an intertwined process.
I wonder if R.A. Salvatore was inspired by wu xia writing. The way he describes his combat definitely feels like some Kung fu madness. Every flick of drizzts blades is accounted for lol.
Drizzt definitely qualifies as a xia, and a very stoic one at that.
A Gary Stu though.
Maybe, but Salvatore also worked as a bar bouncer before becoming a full-time writer, so he saw his share of real brawls.
@@amandajean7738 i don't many Gary stus or Mary sues that have no choice but to outlive everyone they know and love. It's not as if drizzt hasn't had his plentiful share of troubles, he just also happens to be a bit OP. I'd argue that the dragonborn is a much bigger gary stu. Drizzts skills were honed in brutal combat in menzobberanzan, not granted to him by birth. The only supernatural power he has is guenhwyvar... and that option has failed him plenty of times. I suggest you actually read the books instead, that way you're not just talking out your ass.
Regis the halfling tho... definitely a Mary Sue. Fucking Hobbits and their magic bling....
Currently reading the last book in Legends of the Condor Heroes, hoping more will be translated. Thinking about going for Romance of the Three Kingdoms, or Water Margin, after this.
You should read The Return of the Condor Heroes and then, Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber. These two are part of the Condor Heroes trilogy. After you finished those 3, I recommend Laughing in The Wind, Semi Gods and Demi Devils. These two are so cool.
@@feizai245 I'd like to. But I've been having trouble finding the translations.
They are Chinese classics and I recommend watching them. But on a note, "Romance of 3 Kingdoms" isn't wuxia. "Water Damp" is close, but the martial art aspect isn't strong enough to be called your typical wuxia
@@zararias If you like to, you can watch the live action adaptations. They have English subtitles
Beautifully done! Congratulations.
I would be very interested if you have read Fond Lee's Green Bones Trilogy which draws from the Wuxia genre - and what your thoughts are on how she changes the tropes for a Western audience.
WuXia i my opinions = Super Human at Mortal Realm scale. when XianXia are Super Human at Immortal / Mystic Realm Scale
@11:31: So goes the saying that "there is honour among thieves."
Okay, time to reread Jin Yong's novels again. Although my favorite is always The Return of the Condor Heroes.
i remember about reading comic adaption of the hero shed no tear and when i read the original novel it has noting in common with the comic i read but it actually good though.
Thanks for the knowledge! Would love an analysis video on Jin Yong's condor heroes trilogy. What events are real and which characters are real historical characters etc.
Great video, now I need to head back to my cave to train my Buddha Palm technique.
great video. I grew up watching all of these and never really understood the deep history
I wound say old western movies resemble certain values of Wuxia where the protagonists try to do the "right" thing in a either anarchy or oppressed environment.
It's not just about martial arts, it's also about immortality
i think that's a different category in itself, *xian* xia.
Jin Yong's wuxia successor is likely going to be Solomon Li, a Taoist philosopher, author, and martial arts teacher who grew up loving Jin Yong's works. His debut series, "New Winds Move the Martial Air", is one of the better examples of classic wuxia in the modern world, even though there have been other books trying to go for the same approach.
No, it's Chen Yu-hui(鄭丰)
Thanks for letting us know the difference between Gong Fu and Wu Xia!
Gongfu is more close to Reality. Meanwhile wuxia have nei gong or qi.
CJ thank you for this Video... Also guy's Wuxia is superior than xian xia.
Please also made video about sect like Wudang, Hua San, Shaolin, And so on.
And Kang Ouw. Don't forget about that
Also we Indonesian have Khoo Ping Hoo.
Wuxia > Xianxia 👆
@@shazamsakazaki my broooooo (つ≧▽≦)つ
Wuxia is based on real culture, ancient techniques, and sometimes real history. While Xian Xia is just fantasy stories for kids and teenagers. And Xian Xia only becomes a thing all because of Wuxia.
see where Jedi and Sith lore had its roots
The Water Margin clip isn't from the 2011 Water Margin TV series, it was 1998.
Great job!
we can all agree on one thing
mulan (2020) is none of this, just trash
Yeah, it really isn't. Western cheap attempt on copying wuxia without even knowing what wuxia is
I was an extra in IP man 2, fun to see it's like a reference now.. :)
Super fun!
The dude that able to get with the dragon lady = my idol 😂
Well written and explained.
This absolutely incredible. Staying cool 😎
Jin Yong's novels are quite popular in South Korea
Your videos are so amazing
Interesting, I haven't read any wuxia novels, and I don't remember where I got this comparison from, but my impression has always been that it and Westerns (as in cowboys in the American west, which I admittedly have also not really watched, haha) are more or less the same genre. After hearing your description, I still feel like this fits pretty well (especially in comparison to kung fu movies)
You’re doing ninja fiction next episode? Any chance of a crossover with Gaijin Goombah?
I don't know much about Chinese martial arts movies and dramas, but once, I happened to watch a super long Chinese wuxia drama with my former partner, which turned out to be an excellent show. I don't recall the title, but it was like a Chinese version of "The Count of Monte Christo", about a young hero who was betrayed, disfigured, and came back as a different personality who sprung brilliant plots of revenge on all those who harmed him and his family, including the emperor. It was really good. My former partner said it was the best rated Chinese wuxia drama for many years.
琅琊榜？
That series is called" Nirvana in Fire". It's on CZcams with English subtitles. I highly recommend it too. One of the best Chinese Wuxia series ever made.
Actually, It's more of a political drama with wuxia element in it (wuxia is in every Chinese ancient drama actually).
quality content, chief.
Really like your channel.