I remember this as one of my favorite video essays ever! One thing that Josh might have ignored was the heart of the musicians. Sure, worship music may feel generic on a consumer's standpoint, but there's heart in worshipping the Lord through those songs. Surprised he didn't mention acts like Kings Kaleidoscope, Beautiful Eulogy, Citizens, The Modern Post, or other Christian musicians like them, because THEY'RE different. The musicians he mentioned are pretty good too :D
I’m sure Josh had to delete the original due to him using copyrighted music as examples. Big props to this channel for re-uploading this video as I see it as a very important critique of Christian music. If any fans of metal core see this, I recommend the band Fit For a King.
Actually, he stated why he deleted it in a community post on his channel. To paraphrase his more in-depth answer (which I highly recommend you read after finishing this comment), he removed it because he felt that childhood trauma and emotions experienced at the time of writing and recording the video overly influenced the negativity expressed in the opening half. He plans to go more in-depth on his shifting perspective on the video in a new one released once his series on ennegrams and fictional characters is concluded in a few months.
I remember turning the radio on and hearing these cheap Christian knockoff songs that had a positive message and then late one night as I drove down the road with my mom back to our city put on Christian radio I was so disappointed because my headphones had died and I decided to listen to the music and a metal song played. This song was a snake in the walls and it talked about addiction and how it's so easy to fall into the cycle of addiction and how that's the way the devil can sink his fangs and kill us it wasn't over until he got to do and were it stated to turn yourself to Jesus Christ but the message of the song really got me because at the time I was depressed and hooked up on medication that I was addicted to. It really spoke to me and unique way and I learned that a lot more Christian songs in the metal scene are so much more beautifully written because they speak through human experiences in the pain we suffer as humans but still knowing that there's a bright half to be found. Often times I go to one of my favorite songs written by people who aren't even Christians yet the song itself is so beautiful it's almost like it's a Christian song because it speaks of Hope in light and the darkest moments and in suicidal Thoughts it's Unique and it's powerful
I think this is why I as a Christian (and also a theater kid) absolutely LOVE the musical Jesus Christ Superstar. It’s such a different take on the Gospel and such a unique way of viewing Jesus himself. And the music is BANGIN
I'm so happy to see this video up again. Sad that this was gone for a while (though understandable most likely due to copyright). but this is a very good video that josh made
Agreed that most CCM is not effective at reflecting a creative, challenging, unpredictable God. However, it DOES accurately reflect the flavor of Christianity that produces and promotes it. Evangelical/Revivalist and Charismatic Christianity have both exploded into cultural influence by focusing on doing a few things very well and cultivating an emotional experience. For better AND for worse, it's akin to the fast food concept: keep it simple, keep it consistent, make it catchy, do it fast, and make sure word gets around. The music we makes reflects this mechanical 'simplicity
I’ve watched this video hundreds of times in my earlier teen years, now I watch it and understand it a lot more. I recently found, there is some subjected of christain music that’s pretty good. The less popular the better. An example, NF, I say more power to him since he left christain music world. I respect those who don’t really fit into christain music and fit into secular music more, but are still Christian’s. Like twenty one pilots, or bands like lifehouse or daughter. Christain radio sucks, they should just get some diversity. Play some Lecrae and skillet idk don’t just play big worship bands like elevation, and let’s be honest they’re not even really Christiana’s if you look at their church.
I would argue that Christian media should be held to the same principles they preach. It's so hypocritical for someone to sing to a beat about being different to the same beat every Christian band has used since 1997 💀 Christian metal is about a year behind that secular metal sound, but that's still 30 years ahead of the rest of the entirety of christian music.
I'm with you in large part. But it also needs to be said that the risk-taking can end in total loss. For example, Michael Gungor has forsaken Christ and now says he's an atheist.😢
How does being a atheist mean he’s forsaken god? He just doesn’t know God exists and doesn’t think it makes sense. Really think about it, if someone came up to you and said “Hey, there’s a man in the sky who created everything.” When you don’t know about God? That would be insane. Is your God really that petty? Put yourself in his shoes. Would you send both a man who murdered and stole and a man who was certain you didn’t exist to hell? And this is coming from a Christian who believes Hell to be temporary.
As a person who is now agnostic after raised Catholic, the CCM scene is indeed "risk free" and it shows. Bands that had christian themes embedded but not cloying occasionally succeeded in the broader market, but were often rebuked by the CCM scene itself (think King's X, Mute Math)
I got some Christian song ideas-nothing's been penned, just some things I thought to write down: Serpent, You've Been Discriminated: -talks about how snakes get a bad wrap from Christians because of Genesis=racism I Did the Right Thing: -a girl who murdered someone but refuses to acknowledge her sin to God. We Can Do So Much More: -a call out to the church about loving the LGBTQ community with God's love Feeling the Burning Doubt: -doubting your salvation and scared of going to Hell if you truly aren't saved. We Shouldn't Look the Same: -we shouldn't spread the gospel like the Westboro Baptists but with love
It's true the "Christian" label ends up having to speak for 100s of diff denominations. And in an industrial consumer setting it ends up creating a synthesis that sacrifices any soul for what's going to sell the best. Songs end up being self help, corny positive pop anthems. You definitely notice a shift in the 2000s when the "Christian" label in music went from describing a diverse range of genres and cultures under the same faith to a specific sound and genre. I think once bands like Sixpence, P.O.D, and Switchfoot were getting mainstream appeal it effected the Christian Industries share, everyone could just buy their albums at Target. Especially when Tooth & Nail blows up and artists like Underoath would rather play Warped Tour, the walls were closing so the Christian industry had to focus on what would profit best within their market and encourage artists to stay within its industry. Not to mention, CCM labels are just subsidiary to the majors under Viacom and Time Warner, so they end up following the same cultural and political rules any brand has to. All this becomes completely contradictory to the Christian faith to begin with, the industry becomes the church and the industry is owned by people who are aren't even Christian. IMO a "christian industry" shouldn't really exist, it should just be the church that exists, worship music should be written for the church, not to be sold with a consumer price tag. Artists creating art outside the church are separate; evangelizing or just artists expressing themselves. And to clarify, we should learn from the past, each step has gotten us closer to now, so i'm never to harsh cuz i think most had good intentions on the ground level. Each generation had to make compromises in order to bring us to opportunities we have now. In the 70s, they wanted an alternative to what pop culture was feeding so it didn't feel like a bad idea. Then Tooth and Nail happened, they ended up signing with Majors to distribute and afford to pay artists and got tied up, we just have to learn from everything and apply the knowledge and resources that they didn't have back then.
I came to the comments looking for the same thing! I remember watching this video as a teenager and the profound impact it had on me as a worshipper and striving to use my full talents and creativity to worship God. I’ve been on a journey to discover more creative and different forms of worship this past year and came digging through the CZcams archive for this video and am praying someone can find the link🙏🏽
If anyone has watched any other of his videos, you know that he is no longer a Christian so probably took this video down since he didn’t agree with it anymore.
It doesn't matter how they sing (except with cursing or anything that offends God or says Anything against THE HOLY GHOST) all that matters is if he/she does it with all his/her heart as it says In Ephesians 5:19, Paul gives a direct command to the church: “Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord.” So do not say that Christian songs are bad for "WE CHRISTIANS" follow what the WORD OF THE LIVING GOD SAYS WHICH IS THE BIBLE.
Which Josh doesn’t disagree with. Just that much like with some secular music, there are some Christian songs that, aren’t without risk and not a lot of creativity.
If one thing makes me absolutely mad is this idea of creating the christian alternative of x y z .. and it's even more pathetic when they copy each other within the CCM industry. I saw building 429 playing a song "Impossible" I think... the performance and the sound it was so trying too hard to copy Bruno Mars that I almost rolled my eyes 360º. But the biggest mistake is the whole christian music industry.. it should be just music performed by christians, write about whatever you want, the whole "christian music" label is the worst idea ever, they even have a dove awards which I find a little....self-pleasure based... if you know what I mean... they barely interact with "secular" artists.. nothing makes sense because they preach about spreading the word and letting people know about God but then they just put the focus on the christian audience only.. nothing makes sense. NOTHING!! the good side of this are the metal bands who interact with "secular artists" and they also make more accesible music, they talk about ... LIFE! instead of throwing jesus jesus jesus all the time like the CCM songs. But metal by default it's way more elaborated music.. so... it's a perfect match...but again.. it's music.. I don't separate "christian music" and "secular music" music is music.. good music is good music and bad music is bad music.. whatever you like.. enjoy it.. that's it.
Bit corny of me to say. But the only issue I have with this music is what you said earlier. “Christian music is practically banned from clubs.” No ones grinding on someone to any of these hits you just mentioned, let alone going to pound town in bed with that blasting on their stereo system. I’m sure there’s some artists who could easily be snuck in a few playlists without anyone listening, but it’s just straight up lame and only caters to the younger crowd.
@@LinusWeber1997GER And you sure do judge, which is what chases so many people away from the church. The problem is, what you without sin that you get to cast stones?
This video is practically useless because the name of the artists are unintelligible. Richard Mullins -the color green. Gungor -Beautiful things. Now a universalist completely deconstructed. This is what happens when you worship music above God. Be careful with the rational sinful thinking of cultural christians that don't know what they're talking about, excusing ungodly behavior. without Google search practically impossible.
I remember this as one of my favorite video essays ever! One thing that Josh might have ignored was the heart of the musicians. Sure, worship music may feel generic on a consumer's standpoint, but there's heart in worshipping the Lord through those songs.
Surprised he didn't mention acts like Kings Kaleidoscope, Beautiful Eulogy, Citizens, The Modern Post, or other Christian musicians like them, because THEY'RE different. The musicians he mentioned are pretty good too :D
I’m sure Josh had to delete the original due to him using copyrighted music as examples. Big props to this channel for re-uploading this video as I see it as a very important critique of Christian music. If any fans of metal core see this, I recommend the band Fit For a King.
Actually, he stated why he deleted it in a community post on his channel. To paraphrase his more in-depth answer (which I highly recommend you read after finishing this comment), he removed it because he felt that childhood trauma and emotions experienced at the time of writing and recording the video overly influenced the negativity expressed in the opening half. He plans to go more in-depth on his shifting perspective on the video in a new one released once his series on ennegrams and fictional characters is concluded in a few months.
oh thank god. finally found this lost gem of a video.
@@The1WithoutFearthank you for the answer!
@@The1WithoutFear That kinda makes sense, it was a trigger.
I remember turning the radio on and hearing these cheap Christian knockoff songs that had a positive message and then late one night as I drove down the road with my mom back to our city put on Christian radio I was so disappointed because my headphones had died and I decided to listen to the music and a metal song played. This song was a snake in the walls and it talked about addiction and how it's so easy to fall into the cycle of addiction and how that's the way the devil can sink his fangs and kill us it wasn't over until he got to do and were it stated to turn yourself to Jesus Christ but the message of the song really got me because at the time I was depressed and hooked up on medication that I was addicted to. It really spoke to me and unique way and I learned that a lot more Christian songs in the metal scene are so much more beautifully written because they speak through human experiences in the pain we suffer as humans but still knowing that there's a bright half to be found. Often times I go to one of my favorite songs written by people who aren't even Christians yet the song itself is so beautiful it's almost like it's a Christian song because it speaks of Hope in light and the darkest moments and in suicidal Thoughts it's Unique and it's powerful
It is the industry. They dictate what to produce
Let me guess. The song is monster from skillet.
I think this is why I as a Christian (and also a theater kid) absolutely LOVE the musical Jesus Christ Superstar. It’s such a different take on the Gospel and such a unique way of viewing Jesus himself. And the music is BANGIN
I'm so happy to see this video up again. Sad that this was gone for a while (though understandable most likely due to copyright). but this is a very good video that josh made
I hope so too!
Agreed that most CCM is not effective at reflecting a creative, challenging, unpredictable God. However, it DOES accurately reflect the flavor of Christianity that produces and promotes it.
Evangelical/Revivalist and Charismatic Christianity have both exploded into cultural influence by focusing on doing a few things very well and cultivating an emotional experience. For better AND for worse, it's akin to the fast food concept: keep it simple, keep it consistent, make it catchy, do it fast, and make sure word gets around. The music we makes reflects this mechanical 'simplicity
I’ve watched this video hundreds of times in my earlier teen years, now I watch it and understand it a lot more.
I recently found, there is some subjected of christain music that’s pretty good. The less popular the better.
An example, NF, I say more power to him since he left christain music world. I respect those who don’t really fit into christain music and fit into secular music more, but are still Christian’s. Like twenty one pilots, or bands like lifehouse or daughter.
Christain radio sucks, they should just get some diversity. Play some Lecrae and skillet idk don’t just play big worship bands like elevation, and let’s be honest they’re not even really Christiana’s if you look at their church.
I agree with you.
I would argue that Christian media should be held to the same principles they preach. It's so hypocritical for someone to sing to a beat about being different to the same beat every Christian band has used since 1997 💀 Christian metal is about a year behind that secular metal sound, but that's still 30 years ahead of the rest of the entirety of christian music.
For the shake it off one, Mercy Me’s version came out first. I think Taylor’s version was just a coincidence.
What's the difference between turd and mojon?
thank you for reuploading
I'm with you in large part. But it also needs to be said that the risk-taking can end in total loss. For example, Michael Gungor has forsaken Christ and now says he's an atheist.😢
How does being a atheist mean he’s forsaken god? He just doesn’t know God exists and doesn’t think it makes sense. Really think about it, if someone came up to you and said “Hey, there’s a man in the sky who created everything.” When you don’t know about God? That would be insane. Is your God really that petty?
Put yourself in his shoes. Would you send both a man who murdered and stole and a man who was certain you didn’t exist to hell? And this is coming from a Christian who believes Hell to be temporary.
As a person who is now agnostic after raised Catholic, the CCM scene is indeed "risk free" and it shows. Bands that had christian themes embedded but not cloying occasionally succeeded in the broader market, but were often rebuked by the CCM scene itself (think King's X, Mute Math)
Awesome video, I've been looking for new music for sooo long!
I got some Christian song ideas-nothing's been penned, just some things I thought to write down:
Serpent, You've Been Discriminated:
-talks about how snakes get a bad wrap from Christians because of Genesis=racism
I Did the Right Thing:
-a girl who murdered someone but refuses to acknowledge her sin to God.
We Can Do So Much More:
-a call out to the church about loving the LGBTQ community with God's love
Feeling the Burning Doubt:
-doubting your salvation and scared of going to Hell if you truly aren't saved.
We Shouldn't Look the Same:
-we shouldn't spread the gospel like the Westboro Baptists but with love
Oh Thank God someone saved it! Thank you so much I've been looking for this.
Thanks for the reupload, I was looking for this video and I'm glad it's somewhere
Thanks for reuploading it. Please keep it up!
THAAANK YOU!!!!!!
What happened to the original? Thanks for reposting though!
Josh had to take it down due to copyright
@@soccerruben1Actually I think he thought it was a bad video.
Wow i cant believe i found this video again 😮
It's true the "Christian" label ends up having to speak for 100s of diff denominations. And in an industrial consumer setting it ends up creating a synthesis that sacrifices any soul for what's going to sell the best. Songs end up being self help, corny positive pop anthems.
You definitely notice a shift in the 2000s when the "Christian" label in music went from describing a diverse range of genres and cultures under the same faith to a specific sound and genre. I think once bands like Sixpence, P.O.D, and Switchfoot were getting mainstream appeal it effected the Christian Industries share, everyone could just buy their albums at Target. Especially when Tooth & Nail blows up and artists like Underoath would rather play Warped Tour, the walls were closing so the Christian industry had to focus on what would profit best within their market and encourage artists to stay within its industry. Not to mention, CCM labels are just subsidiary to the majors under Viacom and Time Warner, so they end up following the same cultural and political rules any brand has to. All this becomes completely contradictory to the Christian faith to begin with, the industry becomes the church and the industry is owned by people who are aren't even Christian.
IMO a "christian industry" shouldn't really exist, it should just be the church that exists, worship music should be written for the church, not to be sold with a consumer price tag. Artists creating art outside the church are separate; evangelizing or just artists expressing themselves.
And to clarify, we should learn from the past, each step has gotten us closer to now, so i'm never to harsh cuz i think most had good intentions on the ground level. Each generation had to make compromises in order to bring us to opportunities we have now. In the 70s, they wanted an alternative to what pop culture was feeding so it didn't feel like a bad idea. Then Tooth and Nail happened, they ended up signing with Majors to distribute and afford to pay artists and got tied up, we just have to learn from everything and apply the knowledge and resources that they didn't have back then.
Bravo!!!!!
Anyone have a link to the playlist he had linked in the description in the original video?
I came to the comments looking for the same thing! I remember watching this video as a teenager and the profound impact it had on me as a worshipper and striving to use my full talents and creativity to worship God. I’ve been on a journey to discover more creative and different forms of worship this past year and came digging through the CZcams archive for this video and am praying someone can find the link🙏🏽
If anyone has watched any other of his videos, you know that he is no longer a Christian so probably took this video down since he didn’t agree with it anymore.
That makes sense...however it would have been great for him to keep it as it is a great reference. Thanks uploader for keeping this video online.
He left the video up on Christian movies though.
Neal Morse is the man.
It doesn't matter how they sing (except with cursing or anything that offends God or says Anything against THE HOLY GHOST) all that matters is if he/she does it with all his/her heart as it says In Ephesians 5:19, Paul gives a direct command to the church: “Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord.” So do not say that Christian songs are bad for "WE CHRISTIANS" follow what the WORD OF THE LIVING GOD SAYS WHICH IS THE BIBLE.
Which Josh doesn’t disagree with. Just that much like with some secular music, there are some Christian songs that, aren’t without risk and not a lot of creativity.
@@soccerruben1 wdym i don't understand
Modern CCM doesn't make Christianity better; it just makes pop music worse.
What is the rap song at 6:05??
“Can’t you see you’re not making Christianity any better? You’re just making rock n’ roll worse.”
-Hank Hill
Bethel and Hilsong and Amanda Cook and the others in involved with those churches
If one thing makes me absolutely mad is this idea of creating the christian alternative of x y z .. and it's even more pathetic when they copy each other within the CCM industry. I saw building 429 playing a song "Impossible" I think... the performance and the sound it was so trying too hard to copy Bruno Mars that I almost rolled my eyes 360º. But the biggest mistake is the whole christian music industry.. it should be just music performed by christians, write about whatever you want, the whole "christian music" label is the worst idea ever, they even have a dove awards which I find a little....self-pleasure based... if you know what I mean... they barely interact with "secular" artists.. nothing makes sense because they preach about spreading the word and letting people know about God but then they just put the focus on the christian audience only.. nothing makes sense. NOTHING!! the good side of this are the metal bands who interact with "secular artists" and they also make more accesible music, they talk about ... LIFE! instead of throwing jesus jesus jesus all the time like the CCM songs. But metal by default it's way more elaborated music.. so... it's a perfect match...but again.. it's music.. I don't separate "christian music" and "secular music" music is music.. good music is good music and bad music is bad music.. whatever you like.. enjoy it.. that's it.
I knew something was wrong with the Christian music the same beat same words nothing touches your heart it’s all jumping around on stage
13:09 anyone know the song name ?
Heart of darkness by Benjamin James featuring John Marc mcmillan
What are we supposed to listen to
Lil Yachty.
Listen to what you want to dummy
I really think it’s quite stupid rich Mullins is a controversial topic too. Why can’t we be honest and makes good music.
Wait, what's controversial about Rich Mullins?
Bit corny of me to say. But the only issue I have with this music is what you said earlier. “Christian music is practically banned from clubs.” No ones grinding on someone to any of these hits you just mentioned, let alone going to pound town in bed with that blasting on their stereo system.
I’m sure there’s some artists who could easily be snuck in a few playlists without anyone listening, but it’s just straight up lame and only caters to the younger crowd.
I ain't Josh.
The problem with Christian music is all the Pharisees who judge it.
We have a right and duty to judge.
@@LinusWeber1997GER And you sure do judge, which is what chases so many people away from the church. The problem is, what you without sin that you get to cast stones?
Pay your church to go to Heaven???
It's just crap... Repetitive and boring
This video is practically useless because the name of the artists are unintelligible.
Richard Mullins -the color green.
Gungor -Beautiful things. Now a universalist completely deconstructed. This is what happens when you worship music above God.
Be careful with the rational sinful thinking of cultural christians that don't know what they're talking about, excusing ungodly behavior.
without Google search practically impossible.
Very goo dpoint!