Talked to Garrett Wang, the former actor, about this episode. He said it was the first time the cast felt he had acting chops because usually their characters are supposed to be really undramatic and stoic-like so that the aliens stood out more. When he got to play as future Harry Kim, more of a renegade, he got to flex some dramatic muscle.
I always thought he was a good actor. He is outstanding at times. The one with the fake alien war PTSD and The Chute are brilliant because the actors are allowed to show emotion.
What a miserable character design guideline. Granted, many of the characters got their opportunities for great acting, Robert Picardo perhaps most of them, but other shows, such as Stargate or Babylon 5, did just fine without imposed stoicness. Although Babylon 5 many times suffered of incredulously long dialog.
@@Bisqwit Well B5 was realy sufferung from early 90 aesthetics, but VOY didn`t use it`s cast. Robert Picarda, Kate Mulgrew and Jeri Ryan, where the focos of this series. and it shows. Look at DS9, thats how you use a ensamble cast. What a shame.
I agree that Kim's character could and should have been developed way more. He grew only a little, in fits. Then after a certain point, he basically stopped growing all together.
"You always come through for us, Mr. Kim." "Thanks, Cap'n! So...how about a promotion?" "Ha ha ha! Oh, Mr. Kim, your vivacious sense of humor amuses us all." * pats Harry on the head and walks away *
@@oddish4352 I think Janeway doesnt want to promote Harry is, that a promotion for Harry is a sign of time passing by. Harry was just a kid when meeting Janeway. But, promoting Harry, while she is still at her current rank and job, is a sign of her getting old. She wants a promotion too. If she was back at Starfleet HQ, she might have reached the rank of Commodore OR even Rear Admiral. (I know the real reasons, behind the scenes..) Janeway feels like shes being penalized, but shes doing the same thing to Harry
Harry is in a weird place. He's a Starfleet goldshirt ensign. This means he's a dead man walking. But he's also a bridge crew main character... which means he has plot armour. The only way the universe can reconcile the paradox is to continually kill and restore Harry Kim.
he's also in a paralell universe on a different voyager with a different crew to the one he started out with. The original harry kim who died is a forgotten soul
@@katherinkeegan8601 Mistakes happen. Very few people go about trying to fix a mistake for hours or days, let alone 15 years. And succeeding mind you. Something about a person saving your life means you owe them something, whether they put you at risk with an ACCIDENT or not. That level of moral tenacity is certainly worthy of a promotion. This show never gave him his dues for his continual contributions. Look at Tom Paris. He was a criminal and yet he gets a position as a lieutenant, a rank he did not hold within Starfleet previously. He even got repromoted two ranks after being demoted to an Ensign for his attempt to violate the prime directive. A flaw that would have had SERIOUS consequences in the Alpha Quadrant. Look at the Marquis, they were criminals and yet they were given appropriate ranks. If that ship was in the Alpha Quadrant, Harry would have been promoted several times for his contributions or so those defending the captain would tell you. If she kept the same rules for everyone, neither Tuvok or Paris would have seen promotions since they "weren't in the Alpha Quadrant". It's all written and done, but it still ruffles me about this series. For someone Janeway "nutured" from the academy, she continuously screwed him over when it came to his rank.
Yes, Harry. You ARE the hero who helped get Voyager home safely. Maybe not right away....but you protected your family from certain death. And that makes you a hero.
Yeah, Harry actually helped in at least three ways: taking the only child and a huge source of morale out of danger and to the other Voyager, this episode, and the finale.
Too bad Janeway spent 7 years gaslighting him. On the one hand, saying he was one of Voyager's best people, and on the other, treating him as an incompetent by not promoting him. It's amazing he was still sane after all that time.
Love the scene where future Harry is trying desperately to send the signal from the 'Flyer' to Voyager to collapse the slipstream before the point of disaster, working right up to the very last second and when it goes through he triumphantly yells 'YES!' and an instant later the 'Flyer' explodes but you know that he knew that did'nt matter because that whole timeline was immediately excised and everyone lives.
That's the problem, though, young Harry's right: this shouldn't be possible. The old Harry who sent the message now never existed, which means the phase corrections he sent never existed, nor does the message to young Harry. Time travel cannot be used to alter history (unless you believe in multiverse theory, in which case the other timeline still exists and old Harry died moments after sending the message). Any attempt to do so is always self-defeating.
@@Tantalus010 you would be correct, except if it’s not the multiverse, this young Harry Kim could still send that message back in time to his younger self when he’s older, thereby ensuring the time loop is completed and the crew is saved. Kind of like in Bill & Ted when they plan to later go back and plant objects in the past that will help in their present predicaments. If they never do it, it’s a time paradox, but if they commit to do it, it’s simply a foolproof plan.
Multiverse is already cannon… with all the times Star Trek has gone into Earth’s past, then split off into the Kelvin timeline but with those events still happening…
The multiverse is infinite, every road taken, every word spoken creates a new one. So yes, you could create a new multiverse by going back in time and handing your father a condome, your younger self would never exist in that fork of the road but you yourself would still hang around as you came from the previous road taken.
Well, except that in Trek canon, that timeline still exists. Just like the JJ timeline universe where we lost Spock Prime. Harry was content with sacrificing himself to save his old self and the other 150 his mistake killed.
She is so tender with him in this scene, it just feels good. She's telling him he doesn't get to feel guilty or beat himself up, because he is the hero the crew needed, no matter when.
Damn the magic of Star Trek. Only a show like these could make a character watch a video of themself from the future telling his/her past self and make it emotional lol
Timeless is one of the best. Harry was kind of a boring character until this episode. His acting convinced me that he was a regretful, self loathing, lost soul in need of redemption. After watching this episode I really liked Harry.
I get a lot of teary eyed moments out of Kim. There's this one, and also Tom's "This man is my friend, nobody touches him." But what about that loyalty? Fifteen years trying to fix his mistake and save his crew. That's the guy you want in the foxhole with you.
Probably wouldn't say a foxhole cause he'd lock up and shit himself just like he bout did on the delta flyer. But I feel where you're comin from, also these other dudes are fuckin cunts, get teary over whatever the fuck man. For me it's the episode with the 29th century borg.
@Irritable Jon Syndrome You must be a lot of fun at parties. Let them cry. Showing emotion is strength. Not weakness. Something you should have learned watching these "fake" characters.
Seriously, can't we have at least one good video without people acting like thugs and being jerks? There's nothing wrong in taking something from a TV show that resonates with whatever real life situation or learning lessons about watching the backs of those we care about. No wonder why some channels have the comments feature disabled, because of a-holes hurting others for their comments and not wanting to deal with the BS.
I'd like to think this amazing episode inspired the series' finale. The loyalty they have to each other, in the face of so many threats and dilemmas, is one of the main things that makes Voyager so captivating. And few episodes show it as much as this one, where getting back home is not enough and their entire lives are a fair price to pay for that of their family. I can totally see Janeway working for years toward her goal, and thinking "Chakotay and Kim did the same for us, back then. We all braved the impossible, for each other. How can I do anything less now?"
This is one of the reasons why I loved voyager.. Not only was Janeway a captain. BUT she was also like a mother looking after her children. watching them mature and grow into good starfleet officers. Coming over challenges that no other starfleet officers have ever delt with. You could tell when she smiled it was a moment that she was proud of his accomplishments. Not about his mistake which would have trashed voyager, but that even in his future that he didnt give up.
@johnni juul so you necroposted . congradulations. now please go find a tree and apologize to it for wasting the oxygen its making through its hard work. That being said. a crew of under 200.... or an entire civilization.. I'm sure that ANY starfleet officer would make that decision. For that matter ANY military officer in ANY generation would make that same judgement call.
2:08 That smile.. warms my heart. It signals a whole load of emotions. Her trust for Harry instantly growing, realising his devotion to his crew and family.. the fact that he’d do anything to save them. A wonderful episode.
Say what you will about Kim being wooden for most of the series, he put his chops on display in this episode and made us all realize that he’s the friend we all truly want and need in the end. He cares as much as one could and he’ll literally die trying to save ya!
Much like the Kelvin timeline in the new star trek movies, the future was not changed. A new timeline was created. That's how Harry was able to send a message to himself. He sent that message not just from the future but from a different timeline as well. Which in the end makes this episode so much sadder. The older Harry Kim died in the end. He never changed his past for his future. All he did was create a new separate timeline where voyager from the newly created timeline survives.
IDK Captain Braxton makes a mention to it that he had to "clean up" the temporal incursion left by Harry as one reason for his psychosis in "Relativity" so it could be that the timeline is still intact, just Braxton had spent a large chunk of his life cleaning it up which made him bitter (along with the prior 30 years spent on 20th century Earth)
I love Janeway's reaction when Harry starts trying to figure this whole thing out. Harry: Wait a minute, if I sent a message from the future... Janeway: Oh, here we go.
@Skipper847 He's as much the "real" Kim as the others are the real Voyager crew. He's not "their" Kim, but he's a Kim. There was no "real" Voyager and "fake" Voyager. There were two Voyagers and he came from the other one.
I disagree. Picard in the "Tapestry" alternate timeline never took any risks. He was just a quiet guy with no real ambition who just did the bare minimum required of him. He kept his head down and flew under the radar. Kim, OTOH, is rather the opposite, at least where his career is concerned. He does speak his opinion quite often, stands his ground when he knows he is right, and one or two occasions, even shows insubordination to Janeway. Personality-wise, he is a bit of a beta-male "nice guy" which is probably why his efforts to get noticed/promoted always seem to go unrewarded, and under-recognized. As little sense as it makes for Kim to be kept an Ensign for 7 years, what makes even less sense is him being made a senior bridge officer on his first space assignment. A more plausible story would have been he gets the job after 2 or 3 of his superiors are killed on the trip to the Delta Quadrant, or maybe on away missions later in the series. It would have given him more of a character arc to see him go from unimportant, gold-shirt Ensign Expendable to ops officer on the bridge.
i could never understand that, i mean didnt Kirks Ncc 1701-A have 3 Captains onboard? and like 2 commanders? Janeway could have promoted him to Luitenent junior grade under Belana and Tom, last on the totem pole but still.
While he didn't get promoted in rank, he was given several problem solving opportunities that was most likely training for rank promotions. Things like upgrading the Astrometrics lab, getting the responsibility to captain the bridge when Janeway, Chakotai and Tuvok were away. Seems pretty clear to me that Captain Janeway was grooming him to eventually be the Captain of his own ship someday.
The Harry-to-Harry message... Future Harry was recording that with the idea of that he would be sending it to/for an alt.Harry.rev that he thought he was creating, that would have successfully arrived in the Alpha Quadrant alive and with Voyager safe/alive right behind them. Remember, this is before the first, failed revision attempt. He and Chakotay thought they were sending a workable set of variance information. It was the Doctor who came up with the idea of sending the shutdown code - AFTER the first failure, when Harry said there wasn't enough time to recalculate the variances. - This was to have been a celebration message and it's still loaded with 15 years of PTSD & guilt. Even Harry gives Harry a hard time.
I haven't cried since 2017. But watching this episode on Netflix just now, I finally cried again. I was beginning to wonder if I'd ever cry again. I'm such a hollow, dead inside failure of a human, watching future Harry talk to his past self, just makes me think of how ashamed I am of what all my future selves think about me.
This was one of my favorite episodes of Voyager. Too bad, though, after all those years Harry Kim never got a promotion from Ensign. He rightly deserved to be.
True, but that's not how it works. on a multi-year journey and cut off from starfleet, there's only so many command politions and very limited room for promotion within the scope of the mission. it's very likely that a lot of the crew would get bumped up a rank or two as soon as they got back though. hence why Janeway is already an admiral in Nemesis
@@dlirvin432 Somewhat agree with you. Future Harry's log starts "Hello Harry..." I think Janeway saw that, stopped the playback and brought it to her Harry. But....I think Seven watched it before she told Janeway she found it, not realizing it was meant to be a personal message to Harry until after she watched it.
@@RacerSpeed2020 Most likely it was labelled 'To Harry Kim' and since people don't generally open other people's mail, no one will have watched it prior to that. On the other hand, this is Seven, and she may have watched it but just not commented on it. Though personally, I'd go with the former...
I wish they’d done more with Harry’s story, this episode shows how good Garrett was as an actor and how much potential the character had. Such a shame, but this is an absolutely brilliant episode.
@@dragonballzkai9283 In the episode Deadlock from Season 2, Voyager runs into proton bursts that deal tremendous damage to the ship. One of those bursts breaches a hull in close proximity to Harry Kim, sucking him into space and killing him. However, in that same episode, a second Voyager exists that's out of phase with the original Voyager. In the end, the alternate Voyager is forced to selfdestruct to defeat some attacking Vidiians, but before they do tha, Janeway sends alternate Voyager's Harry Kim and Naomi Wildman through a spatial rift, thereby replacing Harry and adding Naomi to the crew. So in every episode past Deadlock, the Harry Kim you see is not the original Harry, but a previously out of phase version of him that just happens to have the same memories, skills and experiences as the original. Original Harry is very much dead and floating around space in the Vidiian sector of the Delta Quadrant.
Voyager crew...how many times did they say 'hang the space-time continuum, I'm gonna save the ship?'...even down to the very last episode, with Admiral Janeway..
He should of said. "Harry get in an escape pod and just fly out of here. The writers will brutally underutilise you regardless of this one brilliant standout"
This is one of the most underrated scenes in voyager. looking at the Kate Mulgrew and her reaction when she is about to give Harry a message from himself in the future, you can see that all the doubts about her being the right cast for the role as captain are bogus!
Kim is always my favorite. Also.. Harry literally always saves the day. Usually getting the "o'brien" treatment. Kim is so human, just doing his best. he gets his ass handed to him back and forth. But always does whats needed to pull out a win for them. Whether in the moment.. or spending 22 years figuriing out a new method and avoiding the time police. never gets promited though
What happened that day may not have been the best case scenario, but it still was a positive one. The Voyager crew were much closer to home, they know that quantum slipstream technology works, and an intrepid class starship can be outfitted for it. It just needed refining, but every discovery was an accomplishment. Hopefully, the brightest minds in the Alpha Quadrant could take a look and make something of it, which no doubt they did.
In the novels, they perfect the slipstream drive and return with some ships to explore the Delta quandrant. (In the novels, the Borg have been assimilated by the race that inadvertantly created them so they go to check that the borg are really gone)
And the fact that now that person in the video you are watching will never have existed because your life choices will be different from here on out so you are technically watching a video a ghost who never existed
So its like Harry got a displaced Log entry that was like the equivilant of a message from a future version of himself. Quite an interesting part of this eppisode.
Time paradoxes can be resolved very simply. All possible futures and all possible pasts are being played out, intervention doesn't erase them or create new ones. The timeline where Harry Kim failed the crew still exists, the Voyager crew still perished, he only made sure that there was a time line where he partially succeeded. There probably is a timeline where Voyager arrived home, and the technology was properly refined and the Federation began establishing connections in the Delta Quadrant. The only consequence is how far from your original timeline you'll be thrown off if you choose to remain in a past you changed.
I also noticed the dramatic change in Harry's future self. I chalked it up to the fact that Harry was still fresh when joining Voyager (fresh from the academy if I recall), and had 15 years to experience a wide range of things (including being a renegade).
That message at the end...If I were Ensign Kim my confidence in everything would've been shattered and I would've spent the entire rest of the series trying to heal from that.
I don't know if it's mentioned in the show but one thing i never understood about things like this experimental drive is that it activates, it allows them to fly x amount but then starts to fail, fair enough...but what stopped them from starting and stopping repeatedly? You know, make a 20light year jump within a few minutes, few days to make sure everything is as it should, next jump etc. etc.
That's explained in the episode. They came across an extremely rare mineral, Benamite crystals that would allow their slipstream to work and at a faster speed than the original, but by the time they completed the engine modifications they had already started decaying. So taking the slipstream jump was a now or never proposition and wouldn't actually work again. To add to the emotional weight, it was Harry who designed the engine and Harry who insisted on trying it, and Harry who came up with the plan to fly the shuttle in front of Voyager to calculate the corrections.
"Since I saved the ship, could I get promoted now?" "Need I remind you Ensign, that you saved the ship.... from your own botched calculations" "No promotion then?" "You're lucky I'm letting you keep your existing job. Carry on" *leaves*
The future timeline still exists, there is no paradox. At least in Star Trek universe. How ever it happens, whole new timelines are created in their universe. Just as the Prime timeline still exists, and continues, alongside the JJverse.
TheAllaksion the thing is though, it could be that the moment the slipstream collapse, that other timeline vanished. In fact any of the spike timelines also disappeared in an instant. Those living in those timelines, may not have known anything about it. So you could believe that those timelines still exist and carry on, including the very little one created when the phase corrections weren't quite right - i.e. they were created, and then disappeared a short time later when the reproduced phase corrections were re-sent. Who knows. If not, there are potentially hundreds of Spike timelines going off in all different directions and existing forever in their own little pockets of time.
That's why Harry Kim wasn't ever promoted from being a lowly ensign on Voyager. He got his ship blowed up. And in that time line, it stays blowed'ed' up. There is no undoing the past. There can only be making parallel time lines.
Nothing like a redemption story to make a character that much more interesting and compelling to be invested in. That being said, Mr. Kim had my attention from the very start because I was very much like him in my youth. No, i'm not in the service, but I ultimately got my promotions.
this, btw, is why Harry Kim never gets promoted unless its peacetime and a safe command somewhere in the alpha quadrant. Decades later to "do the Harry Kim" will be starfleet slang for the act of eternally sticking to the position of ensign while other crewmembers get promoted, demoted and once again promoted ahead of you.
Yeah, but Janeway did give all the Maquis crew members, who I'm willing to bet most have not even graduated Starfleet Academy, field ranks. I am glad that Harry finally got his own command after all.
Forget field commission, she had the authority to give him a proper promotion, just like when Picard promoted Worf to Lt. Commander. Ironically, Harry was promoted to Lieutenant in the Kyrian's interpretation of the "Warship" Voyager
Its scifi episodes like this...that really touch my heart. Am i alone in thinking. Wouldnt it be nice if we could have our future self, warn us of a terrible outcome that we might encounter? Cheers to future harry, you saved em bud.
Talked to Garrett Wang, the former actor, about this episode. He said it was the first time the cast felt he had acting chops because usually their characters are supposed to be really undramatic and stoic-like so that the aliens stood out more. When he got to play as future Harry Kim, more of a renegade, he got to flex some dramatic muscle.
I always thought he was a good actor. He is outstanding at times. The one with the fake alien war PTSD and The Chute are brilliant because the actors are allowed to show emotion.
What a miserable character design guideline. Granted, many of the characters got their opportunities for great acting, Robert Picardo perhaps most of them, but other shows, such as Stargate or Babylon 5, did just fine without imposed stoicness. Although Babylon 5 many times suffered of incredulously long dialog.
Was that a thing just for _Voyager_ or for _Star Trek_ shows in general?
@@Bisqwit Well B5 was realy sufferung from early 90 aesthetics, but VOY didn`t use it`s cast. Robert Picarda, Kate Mulgrew and Jeri Ryan, where the focos of this series. and it shows. Look at DS9, thats how you use a ensamble cast. What a shame.
I agree that Kim's character could and should have been developed way more. He grew only a little, in fits. Then after a certain point, he basically stopped growing all together.
"You always come through for us, Mr. Kim."
"Thanks, Cap'n! So...how about a promotion?"
"Ha ha ha! Oh, Mr. Kim, your vivacious sense of humor amuses us all."
* pats Harry on the head and walks away *
warning warp core breach a lot sooner then you think
Captain Janeway... ruining her subordinates' Starfleet career just for a giggle.
@@oddish4352 I think Janeway doesnt want to promote Harry is, that a promotion for Harry is a sign of time passing by. Harry was just a kid when meeting Janeway. But, promoting Harry, while she is still at her current rank and job, is a sign of her getting old. She wants a promotion too. If she was back at Starfleet HQ, she might have reached the rank of Commodore OR even Rear Admiral. (I know the real reasons, behind the scenes..)
Janeway feels like shes being penalized, but shes doing the same thing to Harry
Harry is in a weird place. He's a Starfleet goldshirt ensign. This means he's a dead man walking. But he's also a bridge crew main character... which means he has plot armour.
The only way the universe can reconcile the paradox is to continually kill and restore Harry Kim.
He's Voyager's O'Brien - so he must suffer!
Neither of your axioms are true. Bridge crew main characters die. Gold shirt Ensigns don't die that often.
he's also in a paralell universe on a different voyager with a different crew to the one he started out with. The original harry kim who died is a forgotten soul
That balance is why he can never be promoted.
@@epicsamurai5 Except when he takes Command of The Rhode Island.
"Since i've basically saved all of your lives, can I get promoted now"? -Harry "Forever Ensign" Kim
"Considering it was because of you we would have died to begin with, the answer is no."
@@katherinkeegan8601 haha!
Aparently when he gets back to Earth he is promted to LT Cmdr pretty quickly.
Captains pet
@@katherinkeegan8601 Mistakes happen. Very few people go about trying to fix a mistake for hours or days, let alone 15 years. And succeeding mind you. Something about a person saving your life means you owe them something, whether they put you at risk with an ACCIDENT or not. That level of moral tenacity is certainly worthy of a promotion. This show never gave him his dues for his continual contributions. Look at Tom Paris. He was a criminal and yet he gets a position as a lieutenant, a rank he did not hold within Starfleet previously. He even got repromoted two ranks after being demoted to an Ensign for his attempt to violate the prime directive. A flaw that would have had SERIOUS consequences in the Alpha Quadrant. Look at the Marquis, they were criminals and yet they were given appropriate ranks. If that ship was in the Alpha Quadrant, Harry would have been promoted several times for his contributions or so those defending the captain would tell you. If she kept the same rules for everyone, neither Tuvok or Paris would have seen promotions since they "weren't in the Alpha Quadrant". It's all written and done, but it still ruffles me about this series. For someone Janeway "nutured" from the academy, she continuously screwed him over when it came to his rank.
Finally an episode that let Garret show his acting chops. LaVar Burton did a great job directing.
Such an underused character, and it only got worse as the seasons went by.
Absolutely. And would have deserved a supporting actor award.
Burton directed this episode? I never knew that, but that's amazing.
@@Natetendo83 Probably why he was available to cameo as Captain LaForge.
Yes, Harry. You ARE the hero who helped get Voyager home safely. Maybe not right away....but you protected your family from certain death. And that makes you a hero.
Yeah, Harry actually helped in at least three ways: taking the only child and a huge source of morale out of danger and to the other Voyager, this episode, and the finale.
also...stay an ensign
Too bad Janeway spent 7 years gaslighting him. On the one hand, saying he was one of Voyager's best people, and on the other, treating him as an incompetent by not promoting him. It's amazing he was still sane after all that time.
Love the scene where future Harry is trying desperately to send the signal from the 'Flyer' to Voyager to collapse the slipstream before the point of disaster, working right up to the very last second and when it goes through he triumphantly yells 'YES!' and an instant later the 'Flyer' explodes but you know that he knew that did'nt matter because that whole timeline was immediately excised and everyone lives.
That's the problem, though, young Harry's right: this shouldn't be possible. The old Harry who sent the message now never existed, which means the phase corrections he sent never existed, nor does the message to young Harry. Time travel cannot be used to alter history (unless you believe in multiverse theory, in which case the other timeline still exists and old Harry died moments after sending the message). Any attempt to do so is always self-defeating.
@@Tantalus010 you would be correct, except if it’s not the multiverse, this young Harry Kim could still send that message back in time to his younger self when he’s older, thereby ensuring the time loop is completed and the crew is saved. Kind of like in Bill & Ted when they plan to later go back and plant objects in the past that will help in their present predicaments. If they never do it, it’s a time paradox, but if they commit to do it, it’s simply a foolproof plan.
Multiverse is already cannon… with all the times Star Trek has gone into Earth’s past, then split off into the Kelvin timeline but with those events still happening…
The multiverse is infinite, every road taken, every word spoken creates a new one.
So yes, you could create a new multiverse by going back in time and handing your father a condome, your younger self would never exist in that fork of the road but you yourself would still hang around as you came from the previous road taken.
Well, except that in Trek canon, that timeline still exists. Just like the JJ timeline universe where we lost Spock Prime. Harry was content with sacrificing himself to save his old self and the other 150 his mistake killed.
Love Captain Kathryn Janeway for being such a compassionate honest captain to her crew
Like a mother as Q stated
"all that matters is that somewhere, somehow, sometime, you come through for us.
Only once though, so don't get full of yourself."
Tell that to Tuvix XD
If Sisko is the dad to his crew then Janeway is the mum to her crew
Except she never promotes Harry while promotes everyone else.
"Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey", to quote an expert in time and space paradoxes....
"I hate temporal mechanics" Miles O'Brien and Miles O'Brien from the future
if he was such an expert why didnt he come up with string theory?
@@hardwirecarsHe has a different theory when it comes to mavity.
She is so tender with him in this scene, it just feels good. She's telling him he doesn't get to feel guilty or beat himself up, because he is the hero the crew needed, no matter when.
Yep.. the Eternal Ensign..
Damn the magic of Star Trek. Only a show like these could make a character watch a video of themself from the future telling his/her past self and make it emotional lol
Timeless is one of the best. Harry was kind of a boring character until this episode. His acting convinced me that he was a regretful, self loathing, lost soul in need of redemption. After watching this episode I really liked Harry.
Me too
You apparently missed Non-sequitur before Timeless. He had several good moments like this, but often overlooked.
He also was amazing in the Chute. But it is violent and a little hard to watch.
Timeless is my favourite Voyager episode and this was a lovely way to end it.
I get a lot of teary eyed moments out of Kim. There's this one, and also Tom's "This man is my friend, nobody touches him."
But what about that loyalty? Fifteen years trying to fix his mistake and save his crew. That's the guy you want in the foxhole with you.
Probably wouldn't say a foxhole cause he'd lock up and shit himself just like he bout did on the delta flyer. But I feel where you're comin from, also these other dudes are fuckin cunts, get teary over whatever the fuck man. For me it's the episode with the 29th century borg.
@Irritable Jon Syndrome You must be a lot of fun at parties.
Let them cry. Showing emotion is strength. Not weakness. Something you should have learned watching these "fake" characters.
Seriously, can't we have at least one good video without people acting like thugs and being jerks? There's nothing wrong in taking something from a TV show that resonates with whatever real life situation or learning lessons about watching the backs of those we care about. No wonder why some channels have the comments feature disabled, because of a-holes hurting others for their comments and not wanting to deal with the BS.
@Jon Dillon is a weirdo.
@J D gaga gagagagagagaga waaaaaa
I'd like to think this amazing episode inspired the series' finale. The loyalty they have to each other, in the face of so many threats and dilemmas, is one of the main things that makes Voyager so captivating. And few episodes show it as much as this one, where getting back home is not enough and their entire lives are a fair price to pay for that of their family.
I can totally see Janeway working for years toward her goal, and thinking "Chakotay and Kim did the same for us, back then. We all braved the impossible, for each other. How can I do anything less now?"
One of the best, most thoughtful scenes from Voyager.
It is, but why be so casual when trying to rewrite history? He's talking to himself. He could say anything! Don't just act like it's no big deal..
This is one of the reasons why I loved voyager.. Not only was Janeway a captain. BUT she was also like a mother looking after her children. watching them mature and grow into good starfleet officers. Coming over challenges that no other starfleet officers have ever delt with. You could tell when she smiled it was a moment that she was proud of his accomplishments. Not about his mistake which would have trashed voyager, but that even in his future that he didnt give up.
@johnni juul so you necroposted . congradulations. now please go find a tree and apologize to it for wasting the oxygen its making through its hard work. That being said. a crew of under 200.... or an entire civilization.. I'm sure that ANY starfleet officer would make that decision. For that matter ANY military officer in ANY generation would make that same judgement call.
@johnni juul Not mutually exclusive dickhead. She did both.
@johnni juul - back off... even parents can make mistakes
@@johnnijuul1943duh, they weren't like her children yet...
Janeway is the definition of strong female character. Not the Mary-Sue worthless horse dung they push us these days.
2:08 That smile.. warms my heart. It signals a whole load of emotions. Her trust for Harry instantly growing, realising his devotion to his crew and family.. the fact that he’d do anything to save them.
A wonderful episode.
Say what you will about Kim being wooden for most of the series, he put his chops on display in this episode and made us all realize that he’s the friend we all truly want and need in the end. He cares as much as one could and he’ll literally die trying to save ya!
I liked Harry a lot. I thought he was just as adorable as Data from TNG.
Much like the Kelvin timeline in the new star trek movies, the future was not changed. A new timeline was created. That's how Harry was able to send a message to himself. He sent that message not just from the future but from a different timeline as well. Which in the end makes this episode so much sadder. The older Harry Kim died in the end. He never changed his past for his future. All he did was create a new separate timeline where voyager from the newly created timeline survives.
IDK Captain Braxton makes a mention to it that he had to "clean up" the temporal incursion left by Harry as one reason for his psychosis in "Relativity" so it could be that the timeline is still intact, just Braxton had spent a large chunk of his life cleaning it up which made him bitter (along with the prior 30 years spent on 20th century Earth)
@@TheKnightOfSmite spending any time in 20th century earth would make any time traveler bitter. Lol
I love Janeway's reaction when Harry starts trying to figure this whole thing out.
Harry: Wait a minute, if I sent a message from the future...
Janeway: Oh, here we go.
She can feel the headache coming on.
and If I Died Last April This Time Line would Ease To Exists am I Making Any Sense Of It All
One of the few Post-Season 4 episodes that focuses on Harry. Timeless is honestly a great episode :D
Kim: "It's all a little weird."Janeway: "Mr. Kim, we're Star Fleet Officers, weird is part of the job."
we're navy officers, butt sex is part of the job.
@Skipper847 He's as much the "real" Kim as the others are the real Voyager crew. He's not "their" Kim, but he's a Kim.
There was no "real" Voyager and "fake" Voyager. There were two Voyagers and he came from the other one.
Still, I always thought they could do more with the fact that for all intents and purposes, Harry and Naomi are from a different dimension.
@@FortoFight There actually was a "Fake Voyager." Remember the one that had the Duplicates on it that came from the Demon Planet?
@@Galilee1964 Yeah, that's not relevant here though. We're talking about the episode in which one Voyager becomes two.
That “Mr.Kim your assistance please.” Must have raised so many more questions right at the end xD
One of my favorite episodes of Harry Kim. Tons of drama and action with a great opportunity for the actor and character to shine.
Janeway is such a mother hen! That's one of the many reasons I love her :) She's the best captain
She was certainly better than a lot of people give her credit for.
Even the BORG queen acknowledges her wishing the best for her collective.
She was awful.
@@williamzhao2521 That's because you are a stupid bigot.
Nope she was the most wooden no real character sisko the best by miles.
Harry Kim didn't get promoted in seven years because he was like the Picard who never fought the Nausicaan.
I disagree.
Picard in the "Tapestry" alternate timeline never took any risks. He was just a quiet guy with no real ambition who just did the bare minimum required of him. He kept his head down and flew under the radar.
Kim, OTOH, is rather the opposite, at least where his career is concerned. He does speak his opinion quite often, stands his ground when he knows he is right, and one or two occasions, even shows insubordination to Janeway. Personality-wise, he is a bit of a beta-male "nice guy" which is probably why his efforts to get noticed/promoted always seem to go unrewarded, and under-recognized.
As little sense as it makes for Kim to be kept an Ensign for 7 years, what makes even less sense is him being made a senior bridge officer on his first space assignment. A more plausible story would have been he gets the job after 2 or 3 of his superiors are killed on the trip to the Delta Quadrant, or maybe on away missions later in the series. It would have given him more of a character arc to see him go from unimportant, gold-shirt Ensign Expendable to ops officer on the bridge.
He gets promoted when he gets back. He's already head of ops. The only way he could get promoted is by switching departments.
@LordGroyper No. The real harry is dead. Floating in vidian space.
i could never understand that, i mean didnt Kirks Ncc 1701-A have 3 Captains onboard? and like 2 commanders? Janeway could have promoted him to Luitenent junior grade under Belana and Tom, last on the totem pole but still.
While he didn't get promoted in rank, he was given several problem solving opportunities that was most likely training for rank promotions. Things like upgrading the Astrometrics lab, getting the responsibility to captain the bridge when Janeway, Chakotai and Tuvok were away. Seems pretty clear to me that Captain Janeway was grooming him to eventually be the Captain of his own ship someday.
"Harry, when Icheb becomes a science officer, don't go with him to any away missions."
One of the best episodes of Voyager.
Janeway is so adorable when she is speaking softly.🥰
harry is a really sweet and smart guy, and he`s the cool version of a nerd.
I thought he was tom's butt buddy.
@@williamzhao2521 That's because you are a stupid bigot.
geek is the word you are looking for
I like that Voyager had a lot of heart.
The level of family you can sense from the cast which mirrors on the crew too this is why I love this show over other Trek
The Harry-to-Harry message...
Future Harry was recording that with the idea of that he would be sending it to/for an alt.Harry.rev that he thought he was creating, that would have successfully arrived in the Alpha Quadrant alive and with Voyager safe/alive right behind them.
Remember, this is before the first, failed revision attempt. He and Chakotay thought they were sending a workable set of variance information. It was the Doctor who came up with the idea of sending the shutdown code - AFTER the first failure, when Harry said there wasn't enough time to recalculate the variances.
-
This was to have been a celebration message and it's still loaded with 15 years of PTSD & guilt.
Even Harry gives Harry a hard time.
His heart is so loyal that he remains committed to the task of protecting his crew
I love the fact that she thinks of him as a son she watched him grow
I haven't cried since 2017. But watching this episode on Netflix just now, I finally cried again.
I was beginning to wonder if I'd ever cry again. I'm such a hollow, dead inside failure of a human, watching future Harry talk to his past self, just makes me think of how ashamed I am of what all my future selves think about me.
Voyager is a true masterpiece due to the brilliantly written stories and superb actors. Best Star Trek of all times
The coolest ending of any Voyager episode.
This was such a touching part of one of voyager's best episodes.
This was one of my favorite episodes of Voyager. Too bad, though, after all those years Harry Kim never got a promotion from Ensign. He rightly deserved to be.
True, but that's not how it works. on a multi-year journey and cut off from starfleet, there's only so many command politions and very limited room for promotion within the scope of the mission. it's very likely that a lot of the crew would get bumped up a rank or two as soon as they got back though. hence why Janeway is already an admiral in Nemesis
Janeway: "Somethime in the future, 10, 20 years ago, we can't be sure
Harry Kim:" 15 years ago, I made a mistake..."
Huh.. 🤔
The message was Private, Harry Kim to Harry Kim. No one else I watched it.
@@dlirvin432 Somewhat agree with you. Future Harry's log starts "Hello Harry..." I think Janeway saw that, stopped the playback and brought it to her Harry. But....I think Seven watched it before she told Janeway she found it, not realizing it was meant to be a personal message to Harry until after she watched it.
@@RacerSpeed2020 Or no one Watched it.
@@RacerSpeed2020 Most likely it was labelled 'To Harry Kim' and since people don't generally open other people's mail, no one will have watched it prior to that. On the other hand, this is Seven, and she may have watched it but just not commented on it. Though personally, I'd go with the former...
How good chief janeway. she receive a transmission from the future and dont watch it. She respect the constitution even in another cuadrant.
I love watching her hold her head and "melt" when he starts talking about the paradox
I wish they’d done more with Harry’s story, this episode shows how good Garrett was as an actor and how much potential the character had. Such a shame, but this is an absolutely brilliant episode.
IMO, one of the best Voyager episode.
i loveeeeee this show seen it a million times over never get tired of watching
Oh, by the way, the grey hair starts in about 3 years from now.
It's because the real harry is dead. Floating through vidian space.
@@TheIrishRushin what
@@dragonballzkai9283 In the episode Deadlock from Season 2, Voyager runs into proton bursts that deal tremendous damage to the ship. One of those bursts breaches a hull in close proximity to Harry Kim, sucking him into space and killing him. However, in that same episode, a second Voyager exists that's out of phase with the original Voyager.
In the end, the alternate Voyager is forced to selfdestruct to defeat some attacking Vidiians, but before they do tha, Janeway sends alternate Voyager's Harry Kim and Naomi Wildman through a spatial rift, thereby replacing Harry and adding Naomi to the crew.
So in every episode past Deadlock, the Harry Kim you see is not the original Harry, but a previously out of phase version of him that just happens to have the same memories, skills and experiences as the original. Original Harry is very much dead and floating around space in the Vidiian sector of the Delta Quadrant.
@@Xylarxcode Yeah I remember how crazy that episode was lol. But I was asking how does that correlate to what Mike said?
@@Xylarxcode That's some deep shit.
Voyager crew...how many times did they say 'hang the space-time continuum, I'm gonna save the ship?'...even down to the very last episode, with Admiral Janeway..
so maybe Admiral Janeway was thinking about the Future version of Harry that said fuck the termporal code and said "He did it, so can i"
That’s what you get when your ship is equipped with the best armor, plot armor 🙄
Watched this ep today....and hey it was kind emotional this time....what a great show....this ending was great !
“Timeless” could have easily been Voyager: The Movie. It’s so good.
What a beautiful serie.
He should of said.
"Harry get in an escape pod and just fly out of here.
The writers will brutally underutilise you regardless of this one brilliant standout"
This is one of the most underrated scenes in voyager. looking at the Kate Mulgrew and her reaction when she is about to give Harry a message from himself in the future, you can see that all the doubts about her being the right cast for the role as captain are bogus!
Kim is always my favorite. Also.. Harry literally always saves the day. Usually getting the "o'brien" treatment. Kim is so human, just doing his best. he gets his ass handed to him back and forth. But always does whats needed to pull out a win for them. Whether in the moment..
or spending 22 years figuriing out a new method and avoiding the time police.
never gets promited though
Garrett Wang was my favorite actor on the show and he always shines. Especially in this episode.
Harry!!!! Was awesome.
"Don't even try" Best advice for time loops
Janeway: You saved our asses but we're STILL not going to promote you.
What happened that day may not have been the best case scenario, but it still was a positive one. The Voyager crew were much closer to home, they know that quantum slipstream technology works, and an intrepid class starship can be outfitted for it. It just needed refining, but every discovery was an accomplishment. Hopefully, the brightest minds in the Alpha Quadrant could take a look and make something of it, which no doubt they did.
In the novels, they perfect the slipstream drive and return with some ships to explore the Delta quandrant. (In the novels, the Borg have been assimilated by the race that inadvertantly created them so they go to check that the borg are really gone)
I think everyone wishes they could somehow go back in time and fix their mistakes.
One of our all-time favourite "ST:V" episodes!
getting a message from yourself in the future, now that would really mess with your head.
And the fact that now that person in the video you are watching will never have existed because your life choices will be different from here on out so you are technically watching a video a ghost who never existed
Ramzi Hanna Thanks goodness for a recording device.
Or be an absolute benefit.
"Hey man, don't marry the redhead, go for the brunette!"
Oh, so many things would be better .....
I’m sure mine would call (collect) from death row 🤦🏼♀️😂😂😂😂😂
"And stop eating candy bars, your teeth are going to rot!"
I was in tears by the end of this scene. What a beautiful way to close out the episode.
So its like Harry got a displaced Log entry that was like the equivilant of a message from a future version of himself. Quite an interesting part of this eppisode.
Thank you, Harry Kim. For everything.
Time paradoxes can be resolved very simply. All possible futures and all possible pasts are being played out, intervention doesn't erase them or create new ones. The timeline where Harry Kim failed the crew still exists, the Voyager crew still perished, he only made sure that there was a time line where he partially succeeded. There probably is a timeline where Voyager arrived home, and the technology was properly refined and the Federation began establishing connections in the Delta Quadrant. The only consequence is how far from your original timeline you'll be thrown off if you choose to remain in a past you changed.
This is my favourite Voyager episode apart from the two part finale.
I love how proud Janeway is of Kim.
that look in his eyes when he hears himself say he kill everyone on Voyager. intense.
Not really 139 people died in the crash. Some members of the crew survived. The doctor doesn't count but we heard him in the background.
@@drmayeda1930 Only ones to survive were Kim and Chaotay because they were in the shuttle. The show said 150 died, you claim 139, so who survived?
Doramamu, I've come to bargin!, oh wait wrong franchise...
I also noticed the dramatic change in Harry's future self. I chalked it up to the fact that Harry was still fresh when joining Voyager (fresh from the academy if I recall), and had 15 years to experience a wide range of things (including being a renegade).
This scene always makes me well up with tears, especially between Harry and Captain Janeway
Another one of my favorite Voyager scenes.
That message at the end...If I were Ensign Kim my confidence in everything would've been shattered and I would've spent the entire rest of the series trying to heal from that.
Possibly the only Starfleet officer to have *"Killed in Action (Survived)"* on his record. _Twice._
"Harry, you'll forever be an ensign. I can tell you that coming from the future."
This is one of the reasons Harry should have gotten a promotion.
"Even Harry Kim looks down on Harry Kim."
-Chuck "SF Debris" Sonnenburg
What does it really mean when your future self says, "You owe me one."?
There's something about the deep white noise in the background that makes this show so relaxing.
I don't know if it's mentioned in the show but one thing i never understood about things like this experimental drive is that it activates, it allows them to fly x amount but then starts to fail, fair enough...but what stopped them from starting and stopping repeatedly? You know, make a 20light year jump within a few minutes, few days to make sure everything is as it should, next jump etc. etc.
That's explained in the episode. They came across an extremely rare mineral, Benamite crystals that would allow their slipstream to work and at a faster speed than the original, but by the time they completed the engine modifications they had already started decaying. So taking the slipstream jump was a now or never proposition and wouldn't actually work again. To add to the emotional weight, it was Harry who designed the engine and Harry who insisted on trying it, and Harry who came up with the plan to fly the shuttle in front of Voyager to calculate the corrections.
"You owe me one... Say yes to 7of9's advances..."
"Since I saved the ship, could I get promoted now?"
"Need I remind you Ensign, that you saved the ship.... from your own botched calculations"
"No promotion then?"
"You're lucky I'm letting you keep your existing job. Carry on" *leaves*
The future timeline still exists, there is no paradox. At least in Star Trek universe.
How ever it happens, whole new timelines are created in their universe. Just as the Prime timeline still exists, and continues, alongside the JJverse.
Mr. Arnold Its the multiverse. the old harry kim exists in a universe where voyager crashed. this young kim is in a new timeline tangent.
TheAllaksion the thing is though, it could be that the moment the slipstream collapse, that other timeline vanished. In fact any of the spike timelines also disappeared in an instant.
Those living in those timelines, may not have known anything about it. So you could believe that those timelines still exist and carry on, including the very little one created when the phase corrections weren't quite right - i.e. they were created, and then disappeared a short time later when the reproduced phase corrections were re-sent.
Who knows. If not, there are potentially hundreds of Spike timelines going off in all different directions and existing forever in their own little pockets of time.
That future did exist at 1 point and the message sent to Harry did happen. However, those original events changed but they did happen.
Voyager is awesome.
That's why Harry Kim wasn't ever promoted from being a lowly ensign on Voyager. He got his ship blowed up. And in that time line, it stays blowed'ed' up. There is no undoing the past. There can only be making parallel time lines.
Guess when they got home harry was promoted to commander 7 years out in the delta quadrant gotta earn that
Nothing like a redemption story to make a character that much more interesting and compelling to be invested in. That being said, Mr. Kim had my attention from the very start because I was very much like him in my youth. No, i'm not in the service, but I ultimately got my promotions.
The weirdest thing about this scene? In the 21st century, we have wireless and he's still plugging it into his laptop.
Wired is safer though
this, btw, is why Harry Kim never gets promoted unless its peacetime and a safe command somewhere in the alpha quadrant. Decades later to "do the Harry Kim" will be starfleet slang for the act of eternally sticking to the position of ensign while other crewmembers get promoted, demoted and once again promoted ahead of you.
This is one of those rare episodes that could easily have been expanded on and made into a full fledges Star Trek movie.
I always rather fancied Harry Kim. There, I said it ...
"You'll always be an ensign Kim, you dork!"
One of voyagers best episodes.
That was an excellent episode!
I like Chakotay's girl, she is a prime example of a woman who's got your back!
Best star trek episode
Harry has been through so much shit, why didn't HE get a promotion? Janeway had the authority to give him a field commission!
Yeah, but Janeway did give all the Maquis crew members, who I'm willing to bet most have not even graduated Starfleet Academy, field ranks. I am glad that Harry finally got his own command after all.
Forget field commission, she had the authority to give him a proper promotion, just like when Picard promoted Worf to Lt. Commander. Ironically, Harry was promoted to Lieutenant in the Kyrian's interpretation of the "Warship" Voyager
But I have read that he met a real Harry Kim who was promoted to Lt. rank.
I think he must have envied him.
See you soon.
Guido.
From what I read, Apparently "Someone has to be the Ensign"
asian glass ceiling. look at tom who was basically captain by the end of the series.
This scene made me cry...
Its scifi episodes like this...that really touch my heart.
Am i alone in thinking. Wouldnt it be nice if we could have our future self, warn us of a terrible outcome that we might encounter?
Cheers to future harry, you saved em bud.