KAK K-SPEC PCC buffer - does it actually reduce felt recoil in a 9mm AR / AR9?
Vložit
- čas přidán 27. 09. 2023
- FORGOT TO MENTION: Oil/lube the buffer! Phosphated parts need oil and it helps keep the spring from snagging/binding on the body.
Today we take a look at the 9.5oz. KAK K-SPEC PCC buffer, how it works, and my impressions of it in a simple blowback PCC compared to a 9.3oz. deadblow buffer, a 7.3oz. hydraulic carbine buffer tube setup, and 9.8oz. hydraulic A5 buffer tube setup.
Note that these are my subjective perceptions of changes in felt recoil. Your experience may be different.
PCC buffers are for simple blowback only, not for CMMG Banshee!
More information including links can be found at Blowback9.com.
I wear ear plugs, or muffs, or both, in every shooting video.
Disclaimer:
Blowback9's videos are filmed at a private shooting club in a controlled setting under the supervision of trained professionals. Blowback9's videos are for entertainment purposes only. Do not try to recreate or mimic anything seen in Blowback9's videos. Do not act in any way based upon any of the information found in Blowback9's videos. The accuracy of the information in Blowback9's videos is not guaranteed or warranted in any way. You, and only you, are responsible for the consequences of your actions. By watching Blowback9's videos you agree that we will not be held liable for any injury to yourself, others, or property resulting from attempting anything based on what is shown or described in these videos.
Forgot to mention: LUBE THE BUFFER with oil. The buffer has a phosphate coating. Phosphated parts NEED oil, and plenty of it. Plus the spring is tight and the oil will help keep the spring from snagging on the body.
I've heard people lubing their buffer, tube and spring with white lithium grease. Would this suffice?
A thin film of grease should be fine. Some folks think slathering the spring with grease is a good way to reduce spring noise. I wouldn't recommend that. @@Charsept
I only wanted to fix the BCG bounce issue with a heavy buffer for my 9mm PCC and ended up with a lot of great information just from this video alone. Very helpful and thank you!
I put the 9.5 k-spec and flat wire spring in my foxtrot mike AR-9 with a 7.5 barrel. Definitely felt the difference. Like you said it takes off the sharp edge. I was at the range and had the stock components in with the 308 spring and regular buffer. I swapped it out and was very pleased to feel the violent recoil reduced to just a regular recoil feel. The nice part is they sell the upgraded parts together so you don’t have to worry about trying to look for a spring. Would definitely recommend trying this set up for people who want to see a quick improvement that’s not so expensive.
Need to do this too! I have a 5” FM
Any trigger slaps, double fire and hammer follow?
A note on the KAK buffer install tool, it will not work with an enhanced buffer tube. Such as the Aero Precision EPC buffer tube. The extension surrounds the buffer stop pin which prevents the tool from pressing down on the stop pin. But with the right tube it is super handy!
I just found this out when I built the EPC lower. I'm going to cut the channel wider at the front to use the tool.
@@Blowback9 I shortened the tubes extension. To make it even with the tip of the buffer stop pin.
Thanks for another great video! Without your videos and website, im sure alot of us would have had a frustrating and expensive first pcc build.
I found your channel recently and have been loving it - I may just have missed it, but it would be cool to see a side-by-side-by-side (etc) comparison of all these wonder-buffer solutions. The slowmo footage of the cutaway buffer tube is great, if you had a way to get even slower framerate, a comparison of cyclic rate compared to perceived recoil would be interesting to see.
Glad you like it! Sorry, my slow-mo is limited to a few seconds and I'm already at max framerate - 1000fps.
Great video. Trial and error got me close to your conclusions but your video confirmed a lot of what I thought was happening. The FX9 comes with a 3oz buffer which is hard to understand. My FX9 now wears a 11oz buffer and cycles fine.
@@Blowback9 Does the K-SPec cause difficult charging like the Roller Lock bufffer (32lbs I think you said)?
@@ssvgroup2563 @ssvgroup2563 Not at all. The head does not need to be compressed to chamber a round. Therefore, charging resistance is limited to the force applied by the recoil spring. However, locking it all the way back manually with the bolt catch may require compressing the head, which increases the resistance at the end of the charging handle stroke. With the Maxim RDB, the system needs to be broken free first, which is where all the resistance comes from.
Cool video, thanks for bringing these to our attention.
Ya, cuz I just bought one. I didn't know you were here and knew all this cool stuff. I'll have to get the flat wire stuff later.
Great video! This seems like a great option for a budget ar9, but you still want some recoil reduction.
Thanks - Agreed!
Doug - another great video, thanks for taking the time to research, test, and put this video together.
Don’t know if you take video requests but a detailed cleaning and lube instruction video for a blowback 9mm AR would be fantastic. I can’t be the only one new to this platform and with your experience I’d bet you have some tips and tricks that could help people out. Just an idea…thanks again for all your videos!
Good idea!
I have an idea for your channel. A skeletonized buffer tube in conjunction with a high-speed camera would provide awesome recoil footage as the buffer hits back of buffer tube
I have videos with slowmo footage and commercially available skeletonized buffer tube. I'd have to have one custom made to see all the details. I'll need to look into the costs.
Seems like a better buy than the Maxim defense buffer
The Maxim will do a better job reducing felt recoil because of the mechanical delay, but will be very hard to charge.
Very interesting videos on buffers! I was wondering how the different buffers affect the cycle time of the system. Do the different configurations affect cycle time?
Yes, they do! Heavier mass results in a slower cycle time. This also helps reduce felt recoil by spreading the recoil forces over a longer time period.
👍🏼
Hi! Awesome channel, very informative. Does 9mm PCC barrel length matter when we are aiming for the 22-24oz total target for direct blowback? At what length barrel would you not aim for 22-24?
That weight range should be compatible with all common barrel lengths. 3" to 16".
How would you compare this to taccoms 3 stage buffer system?
Will this buffer work on a LWRC Ultra Compact Stock Kit?
How would you compare this buffer to say the armaspec ar9 captured spring or the jp silent one?
Have you tried to put weight in the BCG for the 9mm. CMMG and Midway USA sell a weight kit for the delayed blow back 9mm. This weights are held in with a roll pin.
Yes. More reciprocating mass reduces felt recoil, whether it's added to the bolt or buffer. The system doesn't care.
@@Blowback9 I know my AR 9mm pistol needs the heavy weight to work right and the rifle needs the medium weight to work properly but the rifle will run just as good with the heavy weight too. but I think it will run better with more weight in the buffer. Without any weight it would short cycle and jam the spent cartridge and the next round.
How do you decide on what weight you want to run in the buffer? Is it still just a matter of combining the weight of the buffer and the bolt to get close to that ideal target weight you mentioned in another video or is there more to it?
Yes, combine the weight of the bolt+buffer. If it's over 22oz. it should work fine. 22-24 is the "most compatible" but more is OK for almost all setups, and additional mass tends to reduce felt recoil. I generally run 11-12oz. in the buffer tube with 25-27oz total.
I have a question for the kspec buffer: how about you add the spacer weights to the KAK buffer in the 8.5" tube?
Also, what would you recommend for an A2 buffertube?
I just tried doing just that, and it does reduce felt recoil even more. A2 buffer tubes are tricky because they're an odd length internally. This may help: blowback9.wordpress.com/2022/09/25/a2-rifle-buffer-tube-on-9mm-ar-pistol/
KAK makes them for the PCC.
That's the one I tested. It's the 9.5oz. PCC K-SPEC buffer.
Is the spring and enhanced buffer just a direct swap for FM9 then?
Yes.
Would the K-Spec be compatible with a SB Tactical HBPDW brace? The buffer tube of that brace is very short.
I don't think so.
On KAK's site it says that their K-SPEC 9mm 9.5oz Buffer and Flat spring is to be used with a ONE piece 9mm BCG. Does that mean the 9mm PCC BCG's with the rear weight installed can not be used?
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work with any 9mm bolt. Mine all have the rear weight inside the hollow full-length bolt and work fine. The two-piece bolts have shorter bodies but have a weighted extension added to the end, making them full length overall. Their statement doesn't make sense to me.
I would be curious to see how their non-PCC K-spec buffer fairs in a conventional .223 AR.
Me too. I'm afraid that will be up to someone else to test out. I'm strictly PCC.
I might have to give it a shot. Just out of curiosity though why are you only doing PCC tests? Just more interested in them or does your home state have some wierd laws or something? @@Blowback9
No weird laws. I just like learning about and tinkering with PCC, although 300BO subsonic has been tempting me lately!@@michael9r9rsBlasters
I built one out and am going to do a video on the .300 sometime soon. If you have any questions lemme know! The student shall become the teacher lol @@Blowback9
I'm tempted to try one out in my 10.5" FA Ar15
Will they work with the Sylvan Arms or Law Tactical Folders?
Should work just fine!
What’s a good setup for a QCB style shortened buffer tube ?
I don't recommend those mini-tubes for PCC setups. Because they can't fit a normal size buffer and spring, many of them use buffers that are underweight and oversprung.
What’s your thoughts on using the AR-10 flat spring?
My thought is: don't. Stronger springs are not necessary or beneficial for 9mm blowback. They just overspring the system and can cause a number of problems that are fixed by swapping to a standard-strength carbine (round or flat wire) spring.
This vs Taccom for felt recoil?
Good question. I'll have to compare them side-by-side.
Can you just use a .308 spring with the kynshot?
You can, but I wouldn't recommend it. 9mm does not need or benefit from a .308 or XP spring. It's a myth that's gone mainstream. Stronger springs often cause some fairly serious problems that get blamed on other things. More info if interested: blowback9.wordpress.com/2021/04/07/the-case-against-308-rifle-recoil-springs-in-a-9mm-ar/
I have FM9 5 inch barrel with factory 6.5 oz buffer and 308 spring. KAK has 4 different K-Spec buffers. 6.9, 7.9, 8.6 and 9.5. Which K-Spec Buffer should I use?
I'd recommend the 9.5. Heavier is (almost) always better with 9mm blowback.
I bought one of these buffers (the 8.6oz buffer) and the flatwire spring and noticed the flatwire spring is longer than the regular round spring that came with my pcc. Should I still use the flatwire spring?
Or do you recommend I just buy the Combat Wilson Flatwire spring?
The spring that came with it will work just fine. I'd just lube the buffer a little since the spring is a bit tight.
These should still cycle subsonic loads with a suppressor reliably right?
Absolutely, it should!
Doug I would like to help you out! I would be willing to send you some products to compare or evaluate. Not sure how I would go about doing that, but I love your work just found your channel and would like to contribute. Let me know if you would be interested in that. Semper FI!
Send me an email please - blowback9.wordpress.com/contact/
Curious how this compares to maxim rds?
Maxim has better felt recoil but is a bear to charge the first round.
Bottom line what give the best results ???????????
For reducing felt recoil in a blowback 9mm AR? This: blowback9.wordpress.com/2023/05/28/9mm-ar-gentle-recoil-buffer-system-final/
Seems like you're implying they took your idea by saying they "took a page out of your playbook"
Maybe they did, maybe they didn't! Either way, the shooting community benefits! Seems they don't mind my saying that since they asked to put my vid in their blog.
Do I need to change the buffer tube in order the use the k spec?
No. Standard carbine buffer tube.
I’m sorry, but you’re wrong about that an MP five is old technology. The maximum defense roller delayed buffer alone is just as good as an MP five recoil wise.
Roller delay is roller delay… this is not roller delay however so obviously this is not gonna feel like an mp5 😂
Good god 😂
You're both wrong about MP5 vs RDB, and mistaken about what I said, but thanks for your input!
Is the mp5sd really the undisputed king of soft shooting suppressed 9mm?I have a psa px9 8" with the maxim roller delay kit, and i am done throwing more money tinkering with this particular weapon. If i get a turkish mp5 clone is it going to be a night and day difference? you described it as feeling like a .22 so, now im piqued.
It is.
In my experience (yours may differ), it is. Even in direct comparison with my heaviest gentle recoil system, the MP5 still comes out on top.
I have about 10,000 rounds through both the MP5 and the SD as well as the Sig MPX. The SD is by a significant margin the most controllable full auto among the three. The combination of a ported barrel and suppressor make the SD's dispersion about 20% tighter than the standard MP5's or MPX's, which are about the same. All three are much easier to control than a direct blowback AR9