Making Muntins On The Sash Factory
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- čas přidán 11. 02. 2021
- A follower asked if I needed a special set up to make muntins. The short answer is no. I demonstrate in this video how that’s possible.
The sash making router bits are from Amana.
The profile:
Amana Tool 55340 Carbide Tipped Reversible Ogee Window Sash & Rail 1/8 R x 1-9/64 D x 43/64 CH x 1/2 Inch SHK w/ Center BB Router Bit
The cope:
Amana Tool 55341 Carbide Tipped Reversible Ogee Window Sash & Rail 1/8 R x 1-3/8 D x 21/32 CH x 1/2 Inch SHK
Rabbeting bit:
www.grizzly.com/products/griz...
Visit our website
WoodWindowMuseum.com
Love seeing the process
Awesome. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
You’re the man! Keep it up 👍
Very nice work! Enjoyed the assembly process thanks!
Great job! 👌 I’m a contractor from California, I’m currently building title 24 window sash for a house built in 1929! Much respect!
Thank you. Thanks for following along!
Do you have a router for each cutter under that jig box ?
Love it Steve, great video, thanks for sharing.
Very welcome.
Thanks for the great video and the sharing of your expertise!
You are very welcome. Glad you are here following along.
Perfect! I see now why you don't need a jig in your set up to hold the muntins for the profile cuts.
Going to use your tip on making two muntins at a time, makes sense.
Your channel has been so helpful to me, really appreciate it!
"That's pretty cool, right?"
Yes, yes it is.
I did enjoy it and did learn something :-)
You have given me the inspiration to jump in and start replacing the old 1930s windows I can no longer repair.
Getting ready to order bits and wondered why you are using the 55340 that has the rabbet instead of the 55343 that doesn't since you have a separate rabbet setup.
Thanks for your great teaching.
I’m using the 55340 that has the rabbet (although removing it) because the other bit has the profile mounted upside down I believe. I remove the rabbeting element and it makes it SO MUCH SAFER AND EASIER in my opinion. Another benefit is it takes half the power to run material through.
@@WoodWindowMakeover Ahh yes you are correct. I am guessing it comes with a spacer or did you have to fabricate your own?
@@JohnMiller- actually it comes with all the spacers included.
@@WoodWindowMakeover I did find one image with the spacers but it wasn't with the 55340 bit on amazon it was with the 55343. Thanks for all your help and the many hours of great video. I am excited to finally be making windows. You pushed me over the edge of no return and no more rotten warped windows.
New subscriber here from the UK who for some reason unbeknownst to me I am loving wooden sashes. Love the video. Did you just nail these together or are they glued as well? Would love a video on the mitred edges on the profile if you know what I mean. Thanks for the advice! Love the set up with the 3 routers!
Great
Great video. Not sure how I missed this when looking for the bits you use. What are your thoughts on drilling holes through the stile, rail, and muntin tendons then driving a square peg to fasten the mortise and tenons (no glue or other mechanical fasteners used)? Thanks again!!!
I think the peg is a great way to go. I don’t use glue at all.
Finally I Have Someone Showing How This Process Is Made. Is There A Name Brand Of A Router Bit Set You Would Suggest.
Yes. Amana. No other off the shelf bit works.
I would love to visit your shop
We’re in Tampa, feel free to stop by and tour our museum, then the shop in the back
Have you ever test the performances of muntin window (wood) ? (e.g. wind pressure, water leakage, etc) thank you
I guess that would depend on what kind of test you mean. Perhaps an official engineering type test? Otherwise our design is being tested by the elements on a daily basis. Client feedback is one the indicators we use in our testing. One result of our “in house” testing caused us to stop using cypress wood (traditional material) and switch to Accoya because the cypress was failing and rotting prematurely.
One concept people can have confidence in is that traditional window design and construction is one that emerged over thousands of years to be effective, durable, maintainable and simple.
That said, the testing we do is a simple observation, monitoring of concepts and ideas that have been evolving over thousands of years.
How do you determine the size of the muntins, taking the weight of the glass into consideration? I'm building a 9-lite sash with three 24" x 14" pcs of 3/16" tempered glass per row, approx. 76"w x 46"h. I'm deciding whether to make muntins or use what the local supplier sells ( 7/16" or 7/8" at the square side - between pane edges, 7/8" and 1-1/4" overall width, respectively). I'll be in Tampa Fall 2021, and I'll look you up. Thanks for sharing what you know.
Thats a great big sash. Muntin size is somewhat aesthetic when it comes to size, and therefore subjective, but not always. If it’s strength you are looking for, go with the bigger size. But often the muntins don’t serve any real strength purpose, being dividers only. But that said, sometimes they actually hold the sash together when they are mortise and tenoned into the surrounding frame. This is especially true for casement sash and horizontal muntins. Sometimes true for double hung sash on the verticals. Rarely true for fixed sash.
Very helpful. I want to try to make a simple two window pane sash, please advise on videos on how to do this, if you know of any instructions. Very inspiring videos. I have a Sedgwick 571 morticer but nothing else, please advise on which machines are essential to make an accurate basic sash window. If you are on patron, I can reimburse you for your guidance.
czcams.com/video/zFulu-O1BuI/video.html
Give this video a watch and see it it helps
Beautiful…what type of wood do you usually use ?
Awesome setup! What sort of timber was that ?
Can you explain what you mean by the profiles on your rabbeting bits are on opposite sides of the table? I don’t understand. What rabbeting bits do you use?
Hey, I found the muntin video :)
Is there a standard muntin width when your stiles/top rails are 2 1/4"?
7/8"?
It’s all over the map. If there was a standard it’d probably be 3/4”. But they are often 5/8”, 7/8”, 1” or more. The sash I’m in the middle of currently has 1” muntins and 2-1/4” stiles and top rails.
Hi, Do you tipically only use Accoya? It's hard to get in Canada without buying a large volume.
Pretty much. What do you use?
What kind of wood do you use to make these? Is there one best kind or are there options? I know at my local sawmill I can get poplar and Oak, if I dint't want to go to the big box stores...
There aren’t a lot of choices anymore. I am currently using Spanish Cedar but have used cypress, Accoya, mahogany and so forth. One of the biggest considerations ability to withstand the elements. Poplar isn’t usually a good choice for that. White oak is better than red oak, but as a hardwood, both are kinda frowned upon for sash. But I’d do oak over poplar if I had to make a choice.
Excellent work. One question can those bits make french doors
Yes they can.
@@WoodWindowMakeover thanks very helpful I plan on making some wasn't sure
You have become the goto for my methods lately. I commend you. The list of bits you have don't include which one you used for the profile on the muntin. Did you just remove the rabbet from the top of your current sash bit?
Glad you find helpful what I’m putting down. Yeah I started removing the rabbeting part of the cutting assembly and isolating it to another motor years ago and found that it was actually faster, safer and didn’t require as big a motor as the double cutter style.
@@WoodWindowMakeover I tried it today, it worked perfectly. Now to just get out of this tiny 1 car garage and into a real shop lol, thanks man, you rock.
How many routers do you have under your jig? Are you running one for each cutter?
Cheers
At least 3
How do you fine tune the fence positions. Is it set it once and done? Great video.
The fences are adjustable. They were made out of 100 year old quarter sawn heart pine and fashioned with an integral ledge and screw slots. Nothing over complicated. They screw to the table and then once I’m sure they are where I really want them, I screwed a secondary block behind them just in case. There’s nothing like the fence vibrating out of position in the middle of a big run and you find out only after you’ve run all your material that half your pieces are messed up and you have to start over. Ask me how I know about that lol.
This other video shows the fences in a little more detail.
czcams.com/video/4xf_cE6fWAc/video.html
It would be great to see a video making a complete sash window using the sash factory and a more detailed walkthrough.
Here’s one I did a while back. I don’t remember what all’s in it but I’m sure it’s more detailed than what I’ve recently posted.
czcams.com/video/zFulu-O1BuI/video.html
That was a great video
I have that same bandsaw and I can’t get a straight cut out of it, the blade wanders no matter how I adjust it, have you had that same problem?
Well I’ve never tried a long straight cut because I just kinda assumed it wouldn’t cut straight without a lot of fuss. These little band saws aren’t real powerful and to get a straight cut, you have to have a wide blade under plenty of tension and an ability to skew the fence left or right to account for what artisans call “drift,” a phenomenon they can be expected even on the best band saws. The little Ryobi has none of those features. I basically use it for what I’m doing here, small, fast cuts that don’t have to be dead on accurate, or quick curves out in the field. Straight cuts would be a challenge.
@@WoodWindowMakeover Thank you very much for getting back to me, I appreciate the information, and know now that its not me doing something wrong.
What other bits do you use?
Basically just the Amana and a couple of other custom made profiles. But this customs I use only once in a blue moon.
No glue ?
No, the old timers didn’t use glue either. It was a different culture back then with different assumptions about the houses they were living in. The houses were more fluid, ebbing and flowing with the environment. Glued sash are locked in place, unable to move with the house. They also trap water and promote rot. Then there’s the ability to take them apart and make repairs. The Stanley 55 multi plane had a sash making plane iron included in the kit, presumably because there was an expectation that people were making sash parts in their home workshops. Sears craftsman also sold moulding makers that included a sash making bit, presumably for the same reason.
Great question. It pulled some good info out of me.
Did you ever draw up plans for how to build a sash factory? Or maybe you've got one you want to sell me?
I’ve started a set of plans and have meant several times to finish, but yeah, that doesn’t do anyone any good. I could always make one for you, that would be fun. I could also talk you through making one yourself. I made one for doors just the other day. How soon do you want to build one, like yesterday?
@@WoodWindowMakeover yep, like yesterday! I have been meaning to make one for a while now, and I got the bits and have been picking up used routers here and there. But when I sit down to draw it out I just get overwhelmed with the details. At this point I'd rather just buy one from you!
I can email you and we can chat about it
Here’s a big secret in the meantime. Get a quality piece of 3/4” plywood and get three metabo or hitachi routers. You can use other brands (kinda) but these will attach to a piece of plywood readily, out of the box. Match the screws that hold the plastic base on the routers with some longer ones at the hardware store. Longer means 1” or so to go through the plywood and attach a the router base to the ply.
Caution, idiot in the room, I simply can't get my rails to match the styles. I am using the combined bit Rabbit and mold. Welcome to Gboard clipboard, any text that you copy will be saved here.Welcome to Gboard clipboard, any text that you copy will be saved here.
It’s not easy. Maybe you see that I separate the profile and the rabbet, that way you can raise and lower them independent of one another. Are you using a 3/8” mortise and tenon set up?