Tangzhong & Yudane: Explained | Which One is Best?
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- čas přidán 19. 04. 2022
- Tangzhong & yudane are dough improvers. Made with slightly different methods, they produce very similar results. In this video we will have a look at how they are made and used in breadmaking.
Tangzhong is a Chinese roux (liquid & flour paste) that is cooked in a pan, left to cool down and added to bread dough. Generally, made at a flour/liquid ratio of around 1:5 (sometimes made at a 1:4 ratio).
Yudane originates in Japan. It is a 1:1 mix of flour and liquid. Instead of being cooked the flour is simply mixed with boiling liquid and then left to cool down before being used. In both cases the purpose of cooking and mixing with a hot liquid is to gelatinize the starch of the flour.
Starch in flour gelatinizes at a temperature above 65C (150F). During this process liquid is absorbed by the starch which makes it swell up. It is a similar process to how the outside of a bagel is gelatinized when boiling.
Tangzhong turns into a sticky paste while yudane stays more like a piece of glutenous bread dough.
Both improvers will make your bread more tender with a more open interior and they will make it stay softer for longer. This is because the starches swell up and retain the water better preventing the dough from drying out.
Although commonly used alongside eggs, butter, sugar and other enrichments, these improvers can achieve great results all by themselves. So, they are great alternatives (especially for vegetarian/vegan diets) to those traditional ingredients. As with other methods, a few minutes of preparation can make a world of difference in the final loaf.
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interesting experiment, beautifully executed and documented. i couldnt explain the results and decided to research it. the principles of tangzhong and yudane seem to be distinct even if they overlap a bit. tangzhong works predominantly by developing starches into a paste, which functions as an emulsifier, similar to how egg yolks or lecithin work when included in dough. also, the starch emulsion retains moisture and slows the migration of moisture from inside the finished bread toward the crust, extending shelf life. a tangzhong is usually not heated above 65C, as this temp is sufficient to develop a paste and higher temps will harden the paste and render it useless. in yundane, the predominant principle is using heat to activate amylase naturally present in the flour and causing it to rapidly alter the chemistry of starches to produce sugars and other smaller chains of carbohydrate. whereas typically bread starches begin to crystallize after baking and even attach to the gluten, the smaller chains produced by yudane resist crystallization and attachment, slowing hardening and 'staling' of the bread.
to summarize: tangzhong relies mainly on emulsion, and yudane relies mainly on enzymes. i'll list my main sources at the end of this comment
thanks for all your work. your channel is full of great ideas for experiments and you have this charming way of always pushing and questioning what we think we know about baking. i'll probably use yudane next time, though i might experiment with combining yudane and tangzhong, because, since they work a little differently, why not?. i also wonder if high gluten flour is necessary for a rich bread that rises quickly and how lower gluten flours might affect the result. finally, i note indo-pak roti is often made with 100% yudane, like your recent flour tortilla recipe
primary sources for my research:
-The Staling and Texture of Bread Made Using the Yudane Dough Method, Food Science and Technology Research, September 2014
-Influence of Amylase Addition on Bread Quality and Bread Staling, ACS Food Sci. Technol, July 2021
don't know who you are, but you are knowledgeable!!! Greatly appreciate your post and will keep it in my notes. Do you have a channel or a blong we can follow? You sound like a professional.
Thank you so much for the insightful comment. That also explains why the yudane dough was rising more rapidly. There was more food for the yeast to kick off.
I wonder what the result would be if you used both methods. I.e. combined a tangzhong (for its emulsifying properties) and yudane (for its enzyme action) in a single loaf?
So do both methods increase shelf life in the end?
You need to be hired by America's Test Kitchen. Fascinating read, thank you.
These videos are of excellent quality! The fact that you took the time to do a stop motion animation with the bowls shows how much thought and effort you put into each video! Thanks!
Thank you 🤩
and not to mention, he would have to wait for the doughs to proof, he would need to edit the narration to synchronise with the video demonstration, and he would have to write a clear explanation for this concept. Wow, this is a high quality video, i hope his videos would reach many more people, especially beginners like me. 👏😁
Tangzhong is in fact the same word as Yudane (Japanese Kanji, one of their three alphabets and the biggest one, are just Chinese characters read differently), it was seemingly popularized by a Chinese author in a book called "65ºC Tangzhong Bread" which is where the west took it from, but that author was just using the Chinese reading of Yudane. From what I gather, Hokkaido milk bread uses Tangzhong but they will read it as Yudane locally.
I love how in Japanese you can read your kanji in Old Chinese if you like just to be fancy. I guess it's sort of like if your name is "John Farmer" you can call yourself "Jacobus Agricola" to be cooler
Spot on! It is infact one of the rare loanwords in Chinese from Japanese (the other way arround is quite common) 湯種 = 'hot water' 'seeds'
@@SeverusFelix Except nobody does or thinks that in Japan.
@@florianmaier104 I find Japanese loan words are not rare anymore..Chinese-speaking people love to borrow Japanese kanji words even though they have their own to describe the same concept. Especially true in Taiwan where the people are generally Japanophiles. case in point:. 職人，芡飯
Just to clarify, Yvonne Chen is a Taiwanese author not Chinese.
Great experiment!
I can tell you why Yudane produces a better result. Tangzhong kills all the amylase enzymes in the floor with heat while Yudane preserves them.
The heat activated enzymes in Yudane produces more complex sugars and improved though.
Another trick I use with Yudane is i make it a couple of days in advance. The additional time makes it very sweet.
👍👍👍
Damon - what type of flour do you use? Thank you for posting this. I love understanding the science in bread making.
I use Canadian bread flour which is 13.5 percent protein. I think you can go as low as 11.5 percent and still be ok
Both produce similar results but Yudane is definitely better. It's in fact patented and fully researched and tested method for their specific results. Whereas Tangzhong was an adaptation to the Yudane method by several homebaker / Author which became popular worldwide. Tangzhong only became popular because everyone wants to make Hokkaido milk bread. This bread only exists outside of Japan!! There is no such bread! It's just plain white bread 食パン.
And if after heat deactivating amylases one lets yeast do all the work? I wonder how this would work. Or perhaps after cooling add more flour with intact enzymes. I'll give it a go.
The thing to know about tangzhong is that u don't simply want to use the hydration for a given recipe. It allows you to increase hydration while keeping the consistency the same as a lower hydration recipe. So for example if you have a recipe with a hydration of say 70% ,using tangzhong you are able to increase it to say 75% without the dough slacking and keeping a consistency of that of the original 70%. The dough is easier to work with and the bread even moister and softer
Exactly!
But how do you calculate how much to make, say for a sourdough recipe..such as mine..650 flour, 451 water, 140g starter. How much paste do I make?
Couple tricks that I use for Tangzhong. I mix the flour and milk in a small bowl and microwave it until its thick with a few stirs along the way. Then to cool it quickly I add it to my mixing bowl with the cold liquid. That equalizes the temperature perfectly. Great work on this video.
I always microwave mine, too. Just faster & less mess to clean up.
Yup, I microwave tangzhong. No need to use the stovetop.
I cook my tangzhong, microwave always gave me uneven consistency.
@@theweatherisaokay4964 I found that it did also, if I didn't stir it a few times. Normally I do 30 seconds and then stir followed by 15 second runs each with a stir until I get a good consistency.
@@kjdude8765 Yea, need to do that.
The evaporation problem with cooking tangzhong was exactly what I ran into for my dinner rolls on Easter. My gas stovetop heats aggressively, while the paste looked good, it had lost a lot of liquid. The dough ended up just a little too dry and tough, and as a result, there was less of a rise when proofing, there was less gluten development, and less oven spring from the steam- the end texture was way off. I was kicking myself, too, because I had weighed the tangzhong and probably could've added back the lost liquid. But now I know I can just do the yudane method and have a more reliable result with less fuss. Thank you for explaining!
I microwave the milk and flour in a small bowl. Heats much faster and with less risk of evaporation.
Tangzhong method makes more sense for sweet breads , that will help them last for days , sinse doughs that use milk goes bad in a shorter time than the ones that use water
I've been waiting for anyone to do this for ages. THANX!!
I remember asking you about this in your burger buns video. I'm so happy you've made this detailed comparison video. And perfect timing too because I'm going to be making a Hokkaido-inspired pav today.
Thank you for the video
I've never heard of the Yudane, but that looks a lot easier than the Tangzhong that I have used with similar or even better results. Definitely going to give this one a shot!
Tks for testing the different method. Great job
Going to try this out later this week. Thanks!
Wow! I made garlic knots using yudane. Everyone commented on how fluffy they turned out. I used 20%. Thank you for explaining it so well!
Can you please explain?
The weight of flour in yudane is 20% the total weight of the dough? Can you please explain further? 😊@@annydobon8106
I tried a double recipe of your yudane and took a beautifully shiny, very flavorful, and very fluffy loaf out of the oven. Out of the three tanghzongs I recently made and this, the yudane is the clear winner. What I noticed, however, is that in comparison to other recipes, you add an extra round of bulk fermentation (90 min). I first thought that was a mistake but was surprised by how well the the bread rose in the pan. That means that in total the dough fermented for about 5 hours at 25C, being deflated twice in the process. That adds a lot of flavor and structure.
Your videos are exceptionally informative! Despite all the effort I've spent scouring the internet for decent articles on many baking-related questions I've had, you have affected my knowledge and skills more significantly. You have my gratitude, keep up the great work!
I love your channel! Never used either recipes but thank you for the comparison! I've learned so much on how to be a better baker from your channel. I believe in using quality ingredients and proofing time to produce similar or better quality bread without going through so many steps! Continue making videos, they are so informative!
Thanks for testing these 2 methods
This is just pure art plus science! I love milk bread and making it from scratch is one my goals this year.
I only heard of and tried Tangzhong, but by finding more about Yudane I'm so excited for the next time I make bread.
Awesome video :)
I very much appreciate your precision and accuracy. My brain simply cannot work with this level of concrete detail (which is why I majored in Literature 🙃), so being able to rely on you for the directions and explanations is a huge help. Thank you!
Thank you for making this greatly detailed video
Thank you so much for making this video to clarify my or maybe a lot of people's confusion between the two, for there are many videos on CZcams using the 2 terms interchangeably (very confusing).
Also, your demonstrations of putting ingredients side by side for the comparison is GREAT. Visual demos always help.
Charlie, I love the format of your videos. The side-by-side comparisons along with great instruction make your channel the best for all bread and baking-related content. Thank you!
I'll keep 'em coming 😉
@@ChainBaker Great! 😊
This was a great teaching video, like so many others that you've done. I'm definitely going to try the yudane. I've never baked bread with either of these, but the yudane seems easier for a beginner. Thank you so much for making CLEAR and understandable content!
Thank you...great systematic demonstrations
Incredible video
Great video - thanks for sharing this comparison test - I have been quite pleased with the results when using the Yudane method.
Your videos are always so informative!
I dared not to make breads with preferments before. After watching your vids, I made ciabatta with biga, hot cross buns with poolish, and more.
I guess I'll have to use yudane for my Yemeni honeycomb bread (خلية النحل) next time. My family absolutely love those!
Amazing and useful! Thank you!
Great 👍🏼 video. Thanks 😊 ❤👍🏼
Thank you for this video. I have been using both of these methods on my bread but am confused as to how different each is to the other. Your video just made everything clearer.
Extremely well done! Thank you for the information. Nicely edited as well.
Another wonderful tip! Never made this type of bread before, but I am going to make it tonight. This looks like something my father would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE. He has a thing about bread. You do such a great job on these videos. Thank you for the time and effort you put into them.
Another great video, thanks! I would love to see one about the effects of adding deactivated yeast when baking bread. :)
Thanks for the video, great description. I was wondering about the difference - all clear now!
Charlie, YOU are my favorite dough improver. My baking has changed dramatically in the two weeks since I started watching your videos.
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I think this southern girl has fallen in love!!
I really liked how you tested tangzhong & yudane. Thank you for your video.
Love your explanation💕
They used to be really confusing to me. Because tangzhong and yudane actually share the same characters (Kanji) in both Mandarin and Japanese. This video really helps to clarify the difference 💕
Qué maravilla, gracias! 🙌🏽
I have seen a few videos about these, but then I thought "let's see what Charlie has to say about this." And you didn't disappoint! Thanks!
Thank you for this video. I’ve been using tangzhong method, I will now definitely use yudane from now on 👍❤️
Thank god for this channel! I’ve been learning so much from you and now I have a better and easier alternative to making tangzhong 🥰
😉
Yudane is the one I've tried with great results, after watching this video I will stuck to it. Thanks again for the great experiment and explanation.
Thank you for the comparison. I’m going to try the Yudane method first.
Thank you for the video! it's nice to see in dept comparison between two method. As a bread nerd, i'm looking forward to your upcoming experiment videos. Cheers! 👍
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Beautifully made video. Thank you for this.
Your videos are amazing! The content is very helpful. Thank you.
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Thank you for Sharing your experiment, blessings Charlie!!!
Cheers :)
I tried your yudane recipe today. It turned out excellent! Thank you!
I love your videos. Very informative.
Dude! Phenomenal video. I love the production quality and the level of information you provide. Thank you.
your videos and explanations are brilliant, scientific and logical, breaking down baking science into very understandable instruction and explanations. totally amazing, all of them. i'm slowly working my way thru
I am always using tangzhong for my breads, it’s my first time hearing about yudane. Definitely going to try yudane on my bread soon! Thank you for this informational video❤️
Thank you for doing that.
Im learning alot.
Brilliant explanation! Thanks so much 🙏🙏🙏🤗👍👍👍
Valuable content, thanks!
I first learned of this method in cake baking a few months ago and my life has never been the same. Thank you for the thorough explanation. 🙏🏽👏🏽
Which one did you use in cake baking? Tangzhong or yudane? Thanks!
Could you please specify which method you used in your Cake -- tangzhong or yudane?
Your videos are so informative and educational. You do a great job in your testing and explaining the process. I will be a watcher of your channel to further my bread making skills. Keep up the good work. Amazing!!!!!!
Cheers! :)
Excellent experiment 👍
I made the recipe with the yudane method.
After so much struggling to make a bread I got it. I always had fermentation problems.
Thanks for the recipes, techniques and secrets to make these incredible breads.
The result is incredible!
Greetings
Thanks so much Charlie! Great experiments and explanations for them. I’ve tried the Tangzhong in my sourdough with good results. I’ve not yet tried the Yudane in my bread but I’m going to!
Blessings 💕🙏
How Interesting it is to see both ways.. nice work man keep it up
Thanks for this!
Thank you so much for this comparison.
An excellent video. I want to try this method with your brioche recipe
You could try it with the little water that there is in the brioche :)
Great explanation of both. It is a pleasure to watch videos like this
Great vid. Very helpful. Presentaion & your style are professional.
Thank you 🎉 Thank you ❤. I tried your experiment using Yudane & the bread turned out very well. I used the same method with a brioche recipe & made cinnamon & raisin spiral rolls. The result was amazing.
I've never heard of these before. Fascinating! I have a lot of learning still to do.
I had never heard of yudane before. I've been baking and trying to refine my technique for a long time. It sounds like something that would improve dinner rolls, hamburger buns, and sandwich bread significantly. I need to try it.
Great information and experiments!! 🙏🏼
Thank you Chain Baker! I have tried the Tangzhong and I really liked the results, but the extra time and work was too much at the time. I did not know about Yudane. I was excited when you preferred Yudane because it saves some time. I wanted to tear it too.
Hello! Everything is very accessible and professional. Thank you for sharing with us. 🙏❤️🇺🇦
Thank you for all of your efforts in testing different baking techniques and recipes, capturing the entire process, and describing the benefits and drawbacks in these videos. By far the best bread channel on CZcams, and as always, good information and examples. I'll try making cabbage piroshki the yudane way, without the milk or eggs.
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I like these kind of informations. Thank you for sharing.
this is so helpful and informative! thank you
Thank you so very, very much for the experiment that will save us time from trial and error. I'll try both methods at my home, too. May God bless you!
Thank your for showing the baking process step by step. I have learned a lot watching you. I also like that you don't make a huge recipe since it's just my husband and myself so we don't need a big loaf of bread, just small enough that we can enjoy without feeling guilty about eating too much bread. Cheers!
Thank you :)
Excellent
my go to channel for bread... thanks for sharing
I always learn the most from your videos. Thanks for sharing this experiment.
I clicked on this video by accident but then you just jumped right into the content instead of blablabla in the beginning so I kept watching and I really liked your approach on this. so thank you for the good informations!
Cheers 😎 here's another video on the topic if you're interested czcams.com/video/mD-DWPafMMk/video.html
I think comparing the effects of using either of the tangzhong or yudane at all to a bread without them would be worthwhile knowledge as well!
Another great video sir!
May I add that usually for covering Tangzhong, I always see it recommended to press the cling wrap directly on it to prevent it from developing a dry crust. Specially if it is stored overnight.
Thank you. I like this kind of experiment because you helped save my time. Keep the good work!
Interesting AF. Goated Video as always.
Superb video !!!
Thanks, ))
This is a beautifully done and really interesting and useful experiment. Thanks! 🙂
As always, excellent material. I preffer the yudane for the ease of making and using. I have always been fascinated by the lightness of many Asian breads so typical in Hong Kong bakeries. Perhaps you may show us some of their tricks if they are different that these 2 methods.
I learn a lot of this video, keep good work ,thank you you for sharing your ideas.God bless
Excellent video!
I came to point out that in the title you mean to say better and not best since there are only two options. But then it was such a captivating video and I learned so much about yudane that I was hooked to the very end. Great side-by-side comparison and explanation!
I have never heard of Yudane, i agree about it being easier, I will try that method next time, TY
Besides the great detailed explanation, I was amazed for the stop motion sequences of your videos! Congrats!
Saludos desde México! :)
I use the tangzhong, on my milk bread. Good to see a new way to do it. Thank you. I got to try it on my next bread!!!
You've made a very persuasive case for the Yudane. I've read about the Tangzhong before and considered using it, but my bread doesn't need the help to get to the desired texture. I use all organic flours and they are superior in every way to the tainted conventionally harvested flours. The results speak for themselves. Wish I could share what that looks like! Cheers!
So interesting and useful! Many thanks! Liels paldies!
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I was looking for a milk bread recipe and this came up and I’m so glad I watched this.
This is a versatile yudane dough czcams.com/video/L6MeyTvy7GQ/video.html you can turn it into a loaf too ✌️
@@ChainBaker thank you!