Understand that what you hear is NOT air you are bleeding off. There should never be air inside any pressurized LP tank. Liquified Petroleum Gasses LPG’s will always have a vapor barrier at the top of the tank. The pressure, depending what kind of LP gas it is should generally maintain the same pressure. The liquid inside will always vaporize to fill the void between the liquid level at the bottom and the pressurized vapor displacing the rest. This is why a near empty bottle will have roughly the same pressure as a full one. This is something that many people don’t understand.
Agree! But everyone that can save a buck nowadays, is a CZcams professional 😅 I've watched a few of these videos and asked the same unreplied question, "how does air get inside the tank?.
@kenwoolner8606 If you forget to bleed the refill hose air can get in. It's more important to weigh the bottle the empty one pound canister weighs one pound, plus one pound of propane equals two pounds. Be really careful not to fill overweight!
I was having very little propane go into the cylinder but after purging it like this man said I was able to reach the recommended weight in the canister so he's information was very helpful even though I already new this l just wanted to confirm it from others that have that knowledge
From experience, never mess with a safety valve. I always use the center valve to release the air. There is an o-ring inside to seal any device attached to the cylinder. Keep whatever is used to bleed out the air small enough to keep from damaging the o-ring. I also use a tiny amount of silicone grease on the cylinder threads to reduce wear from the constant on and off operation. A thin film on the adapter shaft will help from wearing out the o-ring in the 1lb cylinder. Just my 2 cents. Good video!
Yeah, those little Shrader valves are very temperamental (my experience anyway) so I avoid messing with them and just gently use the center tap to bleed the air off. I find the Coleman Shrader valve stems to be be the worlds worst and wasted two cans trying to use them to bleed the air off. I like the idea of a little silicone grease as well. Great tips and this was a good video!
There's never any air to speak of in any propane tank, what you're bleeding off is propane in its gas form. When Refilling disposable bottles with liquid propane you are compressing the gas that was created when you injected the first of the liquid propane into the bottle. If there's any propane in the bottle and the temperature inside the bottle is above -44 degrees, there's always going to be propane gas present. The pin people pull up is a pressure relief valve it is designed to release excess pressure from the tank. After Refilling is complete a slight tap on the pin will always reseal the valve. Always check for leaks after Refilling using a little soapy water.
THANK YOU!!! The key is venting air out the secondary valve & it makes a world of difference. This is the only instruction video which covered it, none of the others did. >> I couldn't get above 1 lb 3 oz before, just hit 1 lb 13.125 oz (net wt) after only a single bleed by this method. Already darn near fill. Thank you @thecreativeoutdoorsman !!
I think it's hard to fill these 1lb tanks because they are full of gas and the gas will not let any more in once the 2 tanks equalize. So if you bleed some of the gas out to make room for (liquid) it will fill better.
@@uberdome1 Good safety tip, so if your going to expose your overfilled tank of propane too high temperatures like a fire or in direct sunlight. The volume of propane will not alter the structural integrity of the fuel cylinder.
@@bcrusher1979 I used a Mr buddy heater all winter for heat, filling 4 bottles daily. Do not vent the tanks! I use a direct fill with my 5 gallon propane tank upside-down, then I screw on a bottle tightly. open the gas valve completely check for leaks with soapy water. It takes about 5 to ten minutes to fill your tank. If your filling multiple tanks and you're leaving your source bottle upside-down I recommend always opening the valve completely so when your bottle is full you won't make any mistake in which direction is off, if for some reason you remove a bottle with the tank valve open. Don't panic, just close the valve. It will freeze exposed skin instantly.
I've been refilling these tanks for ..... 15 or more years. Trick, if you put the 1lb tanks in the freezer, they'll refill much easier. If it's cold outside, throw a dark colored towl or other dark item over the 20 lb tank in the sun to warm it up. I have some tanks that I've been refilling multiple times each winter for 15+ years. I use them with a "Little Heater Buddy" heater to warm my home in the winter (I live in Florida). I'd be willing to bet that a few of my tanks have been refilled over a hundred times.
Ok, I have read a lot of your comments. That said who has thought of the OPD valve on the 20 tank? When you up side the 20lb tank that valve cuts off the flow of Gas. That is a safety valve for the container. It was a very good design for the vessel Just saying. Stay Safe out there Guys. I've been burnt in the past and Safety is always a blessing. I did like the video and it was very informative. That is my two cents, take it with a grain of salt.
I was not happy the day that I was forced to upgrade the Valve in the last old style Valve 20 lb tank that I had. I new it was the end of the inverted tank refill. On the subject of refilled one pound " green" cyl. While it is legal to refill, it is not to transport them. Only the red refillable ones may be transported.
I disagree, it's too easy to damage the o-ring. Pulling up on the saftey pressure relief valve is a natural function for that valve. That's what that valve is designed to do, release excessive pressure to keep the bottle from exploding if the internal pressure gets too high. In fact working that valve is probably ensuring that the valve is free to operate not unlike occasionally exercising the pressure relief valve on your hot water tank. If you test for leaks using soapy water and find your valve is leaking a very light tap on the pin always reseats the valve.
The safety valve is metal, the needle nose pliers are metal, a slip activating the valve could cause a spark while potentially flammable gas is exiting. Really bad possible situation.
The valve in those canisters is just a small smooth rubber ball. When the rubber ages or dirt gets in, they don't seat smoothly. So they leak. Even new ones leak. And, unlike your bbq tank, there's never an inspection. It can rust through. So can you refill it? Sure. Till it goes BOOM and blow up. Now go to the store and buy a couple of brass caps, with gaskets, that screw on to keep the propane inside even when the little rubber bsll leaks.
A second adapter fastened to the one pound bottle can be used as a valve to purge the bottle without a chance of damaging the release valve or the pin in the main valve. This could be handy if you want make sure the bottle is completely empty for any reason such as disposing of it. Freezing the bottle, which cools the liquified propane, which causes there to be less gas pressure from vaporization will allow more liquid fuel to enter the bottle just like releasing some of the vaporized gas reduces the pressure. Having the bottle sitting in ice water as it's being filled might help but haven't tried it.
Tim this is the first video that I have seen with so much detail. Most folks just show that you just hook it up from the big tank to the little tank and that's it. Very very cool buddy and I promise I will never never transport a refiled tank 😉
There is no "air" in that tank unless you screwed up substantially. You are absolutely releasing pure vaporized propane. If there is any liquid propane in that tank it is just flashing off from liquid to vapor and not changing the pressure in the canister at all. What you see when an LP dealer is filling a tank is a controlled release of vapor while filling with liquid so that the liquid can continue entering the tank. To really do what you are trying to do, the best way is have a warm (not hot) tank and a frozen 1 lb cylinder to be refilled. Then the temperature change will keep the pressure lower in the cylinder being filled. The problem with my method is that its possible to overfill the tank if you don't know what you are doing. Your advice here is not safe if there is ANY source of combustion nearby. You are leaking propane everywhere.
Cooling your 1 lb bottles in your freezer for about an hour is a great idea, that's what I do. Heating your 20 lb tank (even though it will speed up the transfer) isn't a good idea. Chilling you can still overcharge but less likely that will happen if you weigh the bottles periodically. And even if overcharged the pressure relief valve will prevent the bottles from exploding.
I tried this on the smaller 14.1 oz can and it doesn't seem to hold the gas very well. When I disconnect the adapter, I get a rush of air and a slow leak of propane. My adapter came with caps for storing the tank, but is my tank not worth using cuz it won't hold the propane? I tried using the torch on it just a few minutes later and even full open couldn't get enough pressure to ignite the flame?
"bleeding off the 'air'" in the 1lb tank is effectively cooling it down reducing the psig so you can put more liquid in. As you bleed the gas off, the liquid propane will begin to evaporate to maintain the temperature pressure balance for propane. The liquid propane absorbs energy when it evaporates, thus cooling the liquid propane and container down lower than it was. Allowing the warmer supply bottle to push more LPG at a high psi into the bottle. This why cooling or freezing the 1lb bottle allows a fuller fill.
Thanks for the video! Just a thought, why not screw on a fitting with a shut off valve to the canister and bleed it that way? No allen key or messing with the pressure relief valve. Or use the filler assembly unscrewed from the fill tank and use it's valve to relieve pressure from the canister? Thanks.
When bleeding off the air, have you tried using an Allen wrench to squeeze down on the tank's center pin valve instead of using the needle nose pilers to pull up on that offset relief valve pin? That's the way I have done it in the past with good results. Other CZcamsrs have said they feel like it's a little easier and possibly less "damaging" to the tank valve parts. Any thoughts on that method?
What everyone is calling a Schrader valve is actually a pressure release valve, which open whenever the bottles internal pressure exceeds a set valve, which prevents the bottle from exploding. I would worry more about causing the tank to leak using an Allen wrench to bleed off the gas than using needle nose pliers on the pressure release pin. What people who refill these bottles fail to mention is you should use a bit of soapy water to check for leaks when Refilling is completed. If you find the pressure release valve is leaking a slight tap on the pin has always resealed it for me.
Dude. This is one of this MOST INFORMATIVE video out there. I recently got a Buddy Heater. So I’ve been doing my research. I have been so scared to refill my tanks. Thinking I was gonna get arrested. The cops probably got better things to do than fool around with propane tanks. But thank you so much
I have a buddy heater too. 1 camping trip, 5 nights. 3 tanks a night. 6 dollars for 1 propane tank. Waste 15 tanks. 90 dollars compared to 20 dollars in a 20lb tank. I wish I knew about this.
@@denisedevaughn544 Not sure why you didn't ask about an attachment/adaptor to be able to directly hook up a 20-30 lb tank to your heater.One time purchase,much more convenient,just get the bigger tank refilled/topped off as needed
If you use your buddy heater that much it might be easier to get the adapter hose that goes from the 20 lb bottle to the Buddy Heater, that way you don't have to mess with the little bottles❤
When we fill tanks, you open bleader till liquid gas comes out, then they are full, no need to keep stopping, just wear gloves as you'll get frost bit if the liquid touches your skin. Ive filled 1000s of 20, 25, 40 pound tanks and many 100s of 1 pounders. Great vid but just saying bleed as you fill and stop when it spurts will save you tons of time.
trust me it helps a shitload if youll put the bottle to be filled in the freezer for 30 min before you fill you also fill the tall ones commonly seen with torch heads I normally dont fool with the bleeding & usually there about 60 65 % full
NEVER mess with that valve. Over time you will damage it and it WILL start to leak causing a dangerous situation. Stick a blunt thin instrument into the main valve and bleed off some vapor, then refill again until it weighs 1 lb.
Keep in mind that when liquid propane is evaporating the temperature is -43 degrees F. Be especially careful when bleeding off the air by keeping the bleeder valve above the level of the liquid propane. One drop of liquid propane on your skin will ruin your day. Also, it's a good idea to put a few drops of soapy water on that bleeder valve when you're done. Just to make sure it sealed and isn't leaking.
My experience from refilling these 1# bottles is that once you mess with that Schrader Valve, about one in three will begin to leak. I have instead purchased Flame King refillable 1# bottles and have had absolutely NO problems with leaking in any way, shape or form.
@keith9875 I use a bit of soap water to check for leaks. Whenever ive found a leak, a light tap on the Schrader pin has always sealed the leak. Resealable containers are fine if you wish to pay the price. Personally, I have better use for my hard earned money. There's never any danger in Refilling disposable bottles if done in a safe manor.
Thank you, Gentlemen, for your astute comments. They are very much appreciated. However, please use proper grammar and punctuation. The text of the original video author is unacceptably difficult to read because he did not use any proper punctuation Schade. (German Language [Deutsche sprache] = Too bad. )
Very informative. Thanks for this detailed video. Great job! I really appreciate saving the environment too. Although my first thought was what can I make out of those cute little tanks?
5:55 if you want to SKIP to when he finally starts telling you HOW TO do it. Thank you for pointing out that you can't transport it because that's what I wanted to do for my van life. So I'm going to get the flame King refillable canisters that are certified for transportation.
But maybe a large unnecessary expense, I suspect those Flame King bottles are just a scam to get you to spend money on their product. I think that "transportation" in this case refers to shipping, not carrying.
About 20 years ago, Academy had these one pounders on sale for 98 cents, yep you read that correctly " 98 cents". I bought 30 of them and I still have them today. They have been stored in my air conditioned home over that 20 years and they are still like new.
Thank you for reading the disclaimer about refilling these illegal to be refilled containers. Safety is the reason. They put double yellow line in no passing zones for your safety. Guns have safeties for your protection. There are legal and safe ways to refill refillable 1lb tanks. Taking someone’s advice that the Federal Government is wrong, isn’t very responsible. But, you’re right, these “might” explode or catch fire. Best of luck.
Thank you !!! You are the only one who explained that you need to release the pressure in the smaller tank. I thought that "valve" was a pressure relief I knew that there was a pressure problem when I tried before. Thank you SO MUCH !!!
That isn't a Schrader valve, you are correct it is an over pressure relief valve. Testing for leaks with soapy water should always be done and if the valve is leaking a very slight tap on the pin always reseats the valve. Releasing the excess propane gas should be done using the pressure relief valve and not using a tool inside the office of the tank which can result in damaging the o-ring seal. The pressure release valve is designed to release excess propane gas pressure from the tank, so if the valve is working properly there should never be a danger of the bottle ever exploding. In fact you are actually making your disposable bottles safer by exercising your saftey pressure relief valve when you're Refilling your bottles, by ensuring that the valve is free to open in an over pressure condition. These bottles normally don't vent excess gas unless the bottles temperature gets too warm which increases internal pressure
In Canada we're only allowed to fill tanks to 80% capacity, and currently we pay over $10 just for a single. I have a basic adapter with no gauge. I don't fill my cans more than 50%. That's plenty for what I need.
Excellent explanation and demonstration. Thank you very much. Suggestion, turn off the background music, it quickly becomes extremely annoying. You ask us to listen for the gas stop flowing, however your music gets louder. It is beyond my why CZcams content creators think it is cool to play music over their voice. We came to hear and understand what you say, but we must fight the music.
This by far is one of the most accurate ways to do this. This is how they are filled at the factory, basically and no you don't have to use a fridge. FYI a 1# cylinder is designed to hold 1# to the80% volume and a 20# cylinder to hold 20# to the 80% volume. A 20# cylinder should weigh 36-38# (tare 16-18#) You only get 15-16# with an exchange cylinder.
Thanks for a very good instruction video, however It might be helpful if you stop the wonderful bluegrass music in the back groung for us audio challanged old people so we can grasp what you are teaching us. Again wonderful video thank you.
I've been refilling the 1lb tanks for years. There was only one time I had an issue with a tank I refilled, and it could have happened even with a new tank from the store. I was camping at Lake Havasu in August and was using a 1lb tank for my portable BBQ. I left it in the sun after cooking lunch and came back about an hour later and the over pressure valve had popped and the sides of the tank had expanded. I moved the tank to a safe area away from the RV and let the tank bleed off. I still refill the tanks, but make sure that I am not driving with the refilled tanks. I will refill them when I am at the campground and use them up before moving on.
If you are concerned about the relief valve not reseating fully, you can dab leak detector on the valve to check. I had a couple bottles that wouldnt seat, had to let the valve stem slam home again to seat.
That's one way to reseal the pressure relief valve. After Refilling I alway check for leaks and if the pressure relief valve is leaking a very light tap on the pin always reseats it for me. Retest with soapy water. I've never list any propane from a leaking pressure relief valve after I've reseated it.
I hope people realize that when “ purging the gas” you are purging gaseous propane making the bottle colder, bringing down the pressure inside the bottle and keeping it there momentarily due to the heat loss causing the propane to vaporize slower. This allows you to fill up more propane. The more economical and faster way is if you know you are going to do this, put the one pound bottles in the freezer the night before. You don’t have to purge them as much if at all, also depends on how warm your filler tank is.
Here's how I do it: I depress the Schrader valve, I use another heat source and heat the bottle while keeping the valve depressed to heat the air up inside. Then I let have spring shut & put the bottle in the freezer for an hour or so. This creates a vacuum in the can, the I fill with 30lb tank upside down.
Do not bleed with the safety valve. They can easily not seal and will leak. That is a good way to ruin the bottles! Just unscrew and use the needle nose pliers or a set of hemostats to bleed of some pressure, maybe 5 or so seconds. This will make room for the liquid and will cause the bottle to become very cold and that will help with the filling of the liquid propane. Do not overfill. Fill to about 32 oz. Total weight.
One other nice thing about refill. You could do your propane torches. Those canisters long, skinny ones. Work's good, they're thrown out there. Cuz they're, like, 10 bucks a piece.
they got these new refillable one lb tanks i got one ,put haven't try it yet. the best is a plumber two.5 pounder and in Alaska . we full the propane tanks for the forklifts. just like he did. In colorado you can't have more than 6 100lb tanks in your back truck. I was the heater man on a 7 story building. 50,000 btu.
ive been refiling these 1 lb containers for over 40 years or more. cool your 1lb bottle in the deep freeze and warm your 2o lb bottle and hook up your coupler ,turn upside down and open both up . easy as pie .as a trapper ,little things like this ,help in the long run
Propane is somewhat similar to water / steam (H2O) in that pressure is needed to allow it to be a liquid. Water in the vacuum of space just boils until it freezes over. It is just propane needs more pressure / lower temperature to be a liquid than water. The higher the temperature, the higher the pressure needed to keep propane a liquid. It is the same sort of deal with water, except where you see it come into play usually is when you cook at a high altitude. (Or if you operate a nuclear reactor, high pressure water is used to heat water outside of the reactor to make steam.) At a high altitude, a.k.a., lower pressure, water boils at a lower temperature. Water making the phase change to steam cools as it expands into a gas. This causes the water to act as a refrigerant and cool the remaining water, causing it to stay at its temperature and not rise above it. So at a higher altitude, you need to boil food longer because the lower pressure causes the water to boil at a lower temperature. Here is something to try some time: instead of cooking at a high boil, cook at a low boil. It cooks just as fast; it is just you boil off less water at a low boil. Propane is also a natural refrigerant. As it boils into a gas, it cools. It is just because it needs a lot more pressure at room temperature to be a liquid, when it boils, it gets cold (where water is just not as hot) and the pressure in the tank goes down. If you are out in the Alaska winter and are jamming on your propane tank really hard, you may even see the flame go down because the propane in the tank is getting so cold from both the cold outside air and boiling into a gas in the tank as you use up the propane, that it cools enough to almost be a liquid at room pressure. If you get a propane tank cold enough, no propane will come out because its pressure has equalized or even dipped below the outside pressure. This is another thing if you get into air conditioners / heat pumps. They are heat conveyor belts. It is just on the hot side, you have a high pressure forcing the refrigerant gas back into being a liquid. Think of it as reverse boiling / playing that boiling video in reverse. This of course produces heat as it condenses back into a liquid where boiling cools things down. Conservation of energy. It is just when you have a high pressure side and a low pressure side with a compressor and regulator valve, you evaporate the refrigerant (such as propane, but usually a non-flammable refrigerant) on the low pressure side to get the cool side and condense the refrigerant on the high pressure side with the compressor and cooling coils to cool it back down some with say the hot outside air in the summer to condense it back into a liquid. Because it takes a lot of pressure to condense it back into a liquid on a very hot day, this is a reason why boring a hole in the ground is desirable because deep in the ground stays a more average temperature and so lower temperature means less pressure is needed to condense the refrigerant back into a liquid. To get an idea of how much so, people who have switched to these underground systems have reported the power use on a hot summer day to be 1/4th of what it was before when using hot outside air for the hot side of the air condition. A heat-pump is just an air conditioner with the hot and cold side flipped. Extremely efficient, at least when it is not too cold outside, but you still need heating or if you again have a hole bored into the ground to get to a more average temperature to do the heat exchange with. The reason why you need to have the large propane bottle upside down should now be obvious in that you have liquid propane draining out of the big tank like the drain in a bathtub draining down into the small 1-lb propane tank. If you ever go to a propane fueling station and can see how they are setup, you will always see a large vertically mounted propane tank with the fueling equipment taking propane from the bottom of the tank. Considering all of this, you should NEVER EVER need to bleed a 1-lb propane tank. All that is ever going to be in there is propane. It is just a question of do you have a small amount to the point where the pressure is low enough to where the propane does not condense into a liquid at all; just somewhat pressurized propane? If there is some liquid in there, it is not all liquid because some of the propane is in a gaseous state allowing the propane bottle to not be filled to the brim with propane while maintaining pressure in the bottle. Actually, these tanks are designed to always have some propane in a gaseous form, so you should not fill them to the brim with propane. This is also a reason why those propane fuel gauges are nearly useless. All it is telling you is if you have low pressure propane in the tank or high pressure propane in the tank. They have no way to actually tell you how much liquid propane you have. What you need is a tank with a float in it like the tank to your toilet has a float in it so that it shuts off the water once it is filled back up. All that pressure gauge in the video tells you is high pressure or low pressure, but of course on a cold day it can show low just because the cold causes the pressure in the tank to be less as the lower temperature causes the propane to condense into a liquid at a lower pressure. On a hot day the needle is going to be high because it takes more pressure to keep the propane a liquid. So this is probably why the federal government doesn't want you refilling these propane tanks because most people just don't understand how propane and propane tanks work and so kill themselves mishandling it. Getting a small propane tank to the point where you throw it away after one use is easy enough to build standards around it so people don't kill themselves. Getting into handling refilling on your home property somewhere is explosive accident city as people don't actually understand what is going on or how to do things safely. Like the guy here is a poster child of why these federal regulators made these rules. He is going to get himself killed simply because he knows enough to be dangerous, but doesn't know enough to be safe. Like a lot of people I see in this world. As you can see if you read what I wrote, the reality of how propane works is totally different than what the guy in this video thinks is happening. Even when evidence is screaming in his face that something is wrong with his mental model, instead of say going on Brilliant.org or Wikipedia or something, he just blows off the obvious and keeps on doing things in a very dangerous way while wasting loads of propane just bleeding pure propane into the surrounding environment. Then he only uses the Internet to post on CZcams of him doing things all wrong while those of us who did study a little are glad we don't live next to this guy, at least I don't live next to him.
THANK YOU in advance for looking over my comments and replying! Or to whomever does, Thank You. Note this is my third comment. Start below at my first comment and work your back back to this one last. After looking at some other videos, a new question came up. Is the the side value, that you call a Schrader value, where you use needle nose pliers to grab and pull, releasing the air back pressure, basically sharing the same main area of volume where the air collects with the main value (the one in the middle)? If so, is the side value "less" durable than the main value? Seems like it would be. And if it is, shouldn' that side value be left alone? You would release the air back pressure from the main value in the middle? I think that side value is if the tank is over-filled? Its an emergency release value. Anyhow, would it be a better idea to NOT use the side value at all? Fill using the main connection, then release the air pressure from the same main connection as well?
There's no air in propane bottles, what you're bleeding off is propane gas to make room for more propane liquid. Put your empty propane bottles in your freezer for an hour before Refilling and you'll have very little gas in the bottle. The valve you are opening by pulling up on that pin is an over pressure valve, used to vent off over pressure propane gas. This is why bottles should always be stored in the upright position. If an over pressure was to occur and the valve was positioned lower than the liquid propane level, the valve would emit liquid propane instead of propane gas.
Here's a tip people... A lot of these videos tell you to pull up on the safety valve to release the pressure to get more propane into the cylinder.. DON'T DO IT! The minute you break the seal on that pressure relief valve, it will forever leak. You might not even be able to detect the leak with soap and water because it will be so small, but it WILL LEAK. Don't believe me? Go ahead and fill one up then put the 1lb container in a zip lock bag.. Squeeze all the air out of the bag and come back in about 2 weeks and you'll see the bag has "puffed" up. That's propane leaking. Better to put the 1lb cylinder in a freezer, then fill it up as much as it will go, then back into the freezer if you want it more full... DO NOT pull that pressure relief valve...
Liquid propane is heavier than the gasious propane. So to fill the tank with liquid propane, make sure the larger tank is UPSIDE DOWN, then connect it together and OPEN THE VALVE ALL THE WAY. Leave it this way for a few minutes to allow the LIQUID PROPANE to flow down into the smaller tank. If you only open the valve a tiny bit, it inhibits this from flowing properly. There is no need to "bleed" the air. There is not really any air in it, just gasious propane. Leaving the red valve open will allow this gasious propane to travel up into the larger tank as the liquid propane flows down into the smaller tank. BUT YOU GOTTA OPEN THE VALVE UP ALL THE WAY. LET IT FLOW!
The buddy that make buddy heater came out with reusable container. And a hole system to refilling them now out a couple of days ago saw them at Walmart. The reusable tanks are made of metal not plastic
Liquid propane expands when it warms up. the reason that propane cylinders are not filled completely to the top, (80% volume) is to prevent hydrostatic pressure lifting the safety and losing propane, besides seeping gas as a fire hazard, the safety valve on the 1 lb container may not be as reliable as you need it to be on a hot sunny day. if you've ever shot a completely filled,sealed container of water with a rifle (Water, now cowboy) then you have seen hydrostatic pressure in action. also note, as you draw off from the 20 lb, some of the tank volume is refilled by the propane boiling off, which reduces the temperature of the liquid part, and reduces the tank pressure. bleeding the can is releasing propane gas, mixed with air that was in the adapter before it was connected. that is a flammable mixture, so don't wear your nylons, while moving about making static sparks.
You're not bleeding off air. You're releasing propane gas. Not much tension is required to pull on the pressure relief valve pin. One should always leak test your bottles once they are refilled with soapy water. If the valve leaks tap the pin very light to reseat the valve. You could use a brass pin to reseat the valve.
For under $20, one can buy a tank that is legal to refill and transport. They are also easier to refill as there is a vent valve that is designed to be opened and closed. Messing with the relief or outlet valve to vent on a non refillable tank is asking for a leak. The best way is to cool the tank and use a weigh scale to determine when full. If I remember right, a new tank full weighs something like 2.2 lbs.
Yeah, from Flame King and Mr Buddy I think. I would go that route. I wouldn't consider these cans good for putting in a pack, they are heavy and bulky. This is passive filling and not pressure filling, when refilling the bigger tanks the propane is being pumped into the tank. Refilling the small tanks is just using the pressure inside the larger tank to flow fuel into them. I've refilled a lot of propane tanks on forklifts and we always opened the bleed valve while filling until a steady flow of vapor came out then shut the pump off. I try to avoid using these things, just get a 5lb refillable tank and a adapter tree for hoses to your devices.
I have a Mr Buddy portable heater and they recommend you use a filter when using a 20 pound tank so if I refill a 1 pound tank do I need to filter it before using the portable heater?
I definitely agree with you but it's safer to purchase the one's that are meant to be refilled verses those Walmart coalman one timers!!! Flame 🔥 king and now fuel keg makes some nice ones!!! I'm thinking 🤔 ill have to check out the later manufacturer since they've added a bleed off valve!!!
What the bleeding procedure does is cause any liquid inside of the tank to evaporate. This causes it to cool reducing the pressure inside of the tank being blead. The larger tank will then push in more liquid. The liquid being concentrated will add more propane to the tank than what is being released from the tank. Gasses have a temperature pressure relationship. The warmer it is, the more pressure there is. One can look up in a chart exactly what pressure is in in the tank at any given temperature, (as long as there is some liquid in the tank). If you know the pressure, it will tell you the temperature. If you know the temperature, it will tell you the pressure.
I wonder who came up with the that enormous fine and jail term for refilling them. It would be interesting to see who pushed for that. Thank you for sharing this knowledge with us, Tim. Stay safe and stay warm
You can't ship refills which seems like a good rule, there's rules for transporting flammable gasses and once it's in a box your mailman wouldn't even know what it was. Probably be fine on the first or second refill, but what about the 100th? After the bottle has sat outside for years? Think about the dumbest person you know, then realize you don't know that many people, so chances are there are waaaay dumber people. What if all those people decided to mail an old rusty 1lb refill on the same day, from the same Post Office? Instead of being outraged, why don't you see how many people have actually been convicted of the Federal crime of shipping refilled cylinders? It's more likely Coleman got the law passed to cut down on me or you undercutting them with their used cylinders.
@@BigFarm_ah365 Dumbacrat lawmakers bought off by Coleman and the propane industry. It's how they ALL become so rich while in office.....selling out this nation for their personal financial gain
I've never heard of the feds going from campsite to campsite looking for refilled cylinders being transported. It sounds like a good beginning to a cool story.
When the 20 lb propane tanks went to the new triangle valves I Thaught was a saftey valve so when tipped over on side or upside down the tank has a float to turn gas off without turning triangle valve?
The triangle valve handle indicates it is equipped with a safety device which prevents gas or liquid flow if there is not a device connected to the tank. The “Wally mart” refill adapter fulfills the requirement so you can get gas flow (with the tank upright) or liquid) flow (with the tank inverted).
I have been feeling these 1 lb canisters for over 20 years now. Sometimes I get them completely full other times I get them half or 3/4 full. I have never tried doing the bleeding off method. Maybe I'll try that later this spring. I also watched a CZcams video that recommended to put your little green canisters in the freezer before filling and I have found that I can get them even Fuller. I got my propane adapter from harbor freight when they were around $7 but these ones do not have a gauge or a shut-off valve.
Yes you can refill smaller tanks from lager tanks and you WILL save yourself a shitload of money.however,as you fill each tank ,pressure decreases in the big tank.Meaning each time you will get less of a " Full" refill. Less pressure in big tank means less pressure in little tank. Using a Snozel or other devices will still save you dollars.....
Also, if you put an empty bottle in the freezer before filling, it lowers the pressure and will take a refill easier ( same applies to other liquids that ‘boil’ off to gas, such as CO2
I tried pulling up on the relief valve and 90% of my relief valves leaked with the spit test on the valve. I would rather bleed off air with an allen wrench on the center. I was able to fill to about 90% or more. I would not recommend pulling up on the relief valve.
good video, sir nice and clear and I like the fact that there is a gauge in between the two tanks to help you visually identify when the 1 pound bottle is full. question though. Why don’t you just purge the pressurized contents completely out of the bottle before you fill it up for the first time?
The valves on these tanks are not meant to be used repeatedly. They leak. I have had it happen several times. You need to buy brass caps with a seal to prevent leakage. P.S. You repeatedly repeat that you don't want to repeat yourself.
Flame King sells refillable 1lb bottles for $20 a pop. They're designed to be refilled. If your safety isn't worth that, by all means, refill a disposable tank.
When you open the safety valve and let some pressure out (while the 1lb is not on the refill device), all you are really doing is lowering the temperature of the propane liquid in the tank. Relieving pressure like you did causes new evaporation. New evaporation = colder temperature because it takes heat to evaporate. Freezing the 1 lb canister before filling will cause less evaporation during the fill and you will get more in it.
This is a really good idea and it's feasible. But keep in mind you will never overfill a tank.. my filling it with a bigger tank 20 or 100 lb tank.. to fill it would have to be pumped in your tank.. great idea saves money but you don't get a full tank.. so if you normally pack one tank for what you are doing. Pack 2 maybe 3 tanks. I actually do this but you don't get a full tank the equalize between 2 tanks But definitely saves money..😊
Excellent point, nobody else has mentioned. When Refilling from a larger tank the most pressure that can be created in the 1 lb bottles is the pressure that in the larger tank, and is why when Refilling you hear the liquid propane entering the bottle until the 2 pressures equalize. You can actually get more than 1 lb of liquid propane in a 1 lb bottle, definitely unsafe, however if the pressure relief valve is functional it will release any amount of pressure that could even come close to causing the bottle to explode. Without these saftey pressure relief valves, propane bottles would explode if left out in the sun or in a very hot room.
Toni could you tell me how to know if my 20 pound tank has a safety float in it????????? does that mean when I turn it upside down it will not fill my little 1 pound bottle. Thank you in advance for your answer.✔️✔️✔️
Understand that what you hear is NOT air you are bleeding off. There should never be air inside any pressurized LP tank. Liquified Petroleum Gasses LPG’s will always have a vapor barrier at the top of the tank. The pressure, depending what kind of LP gas it is should generally maintain the same pressure. The liquid inside will always vaporize to fill the void between the liquid level at the bottom and the pressurized vapor displacing the rest. This is why a near empty bottle will have roughly the same pressure as a full one. This is something that many people don’t understand.
Agree! But everyone that can save a buck nowadays, is a CZcams professional 😅 I've watched a few of these videos and asked the same unreplied question, "how does air get inside the tank?.
@kenwoolner8606 If you forget to bleed the refill hose air can get in. It's more important to weigh the bottle the empty one pound canister weighs one pound, plus one pound of propane equals two pounds. Be really careful not to fill overweight!
I was having very little propane go into the cylinder but after purging it like this man said I was able to reach the recommended weight in the canister so he's information was very helpful even though I already new this l just wanted to confirm it from others that have that knowledge
Put in freezer..?
@scottsmith4934 but what if you don't have access to freezing the canister bleeding some slightly did work
From experience, never mess with a safety valve. I always use the center valve to release the air. There is an o-ring inside to seal any device attached to the cylinder. Keep whatever is used to bleed out the air small enough to keep from damaging the o-ring. I also use a tiny amount of silicone grease on the cylinder threads to reduce wear from the constant on and off operation. A thin film on the adapter shaft will help from wearing out the o-ring in the 1lb cylinder. Just my 2 cents. Good video!
You hear the same thing from other users who have had issues with the bleeder valve after many refills.
Man I remember people talking about this back when they were like $3 a piece
Which was like 3 years ago
Yeah, those little Shrader valves are very temperamental (my experience anyway) so I avoid messing with them and just gently use the center tap to bleed the air off. I find the Coleman Shrader valve stems to be be the worlds worst and wasted two cans trying to use them to bleed the air off. I like the idea of a little silicone grease as well. Great tips and this was a good video!
There's never any air to speak of in any propane tank, what you're bleeding off is propane in its gas form. When Refilling disposable bottles with liquid propane you are compressing the gas that was created when you injected the first of the liquid propane into the bottle. If there's any propane in the bottle and the temperature inside the bottle is above -44 degrees, there's always going to be propane gas present. The pin people pull up is a pressure relief valve it is designed to release excess pressure from the tank. After Refilling is complete a slight tap on the pin will always reseal the valve. Always check for leaks after Refilling using a little soapy water.
THANK YOU!!! The key is venting air out the secondary valve & it makes a world of difference. This is the only instruction video which covered it, none of the others did. >> I couldn't get above 1 lb 3 oz before, just hit 1 lb 13.125 oz (net wt) after only a single bleed by this method. Already darn near fill. Thank you @thecreativeoutdoorsman !!
I think it's hard to fill these 1lb tanks because they are full of gas and the gas will not let any more in once the 2 tanks equalize. So if you bleed some of the gas out to make room for (liquid) it will fill better.
@@bcrusher1979right, I've accomplished this by burning off whatever is in the bottle, then many times it will hold more.
Now your tanks can explode because there is no room for expansion.
@@uberdome1
Good safety tip, so if your going to expose your overfilled tank of propane too high temperatures like a fire or in direct sunlight. The volume of propane will not alter the structural integrity of the fuel cylinder.
@@bcrusher1979
I used a Mr buddy heater all winter for heat, filling 4 bottles daily. Do not vent the tanks! I use a direct fill with my 5 gallon propane tank upside-down, then I screw on a bottle tightly. open the gas valve completely check for leaks with soapy water. It takes about 5 to ten minutes to fill your tank. If your filling multiple tanks and you're leaving your source bottle upside-down I recommend always opening the valve completely so when your bottle is full you won't make any mistake in which direction is off, if for some reason you remove a bottle with the tank valve open. Don't panic, just close the valve. It will freeze exposed skin instantly.
This is by far the best correct video to refill the 1, lb, I have seen.thank you body, god bless.
I've been refilling these tanks for ..... 15 or more years. Trick, if you put the 1lb tanks in the freezer, they'll refill much easier. If it's cold outside, throw a dark colored towl or other dark item over the 20 lb tank in the sun to warm it up. I have some tanks that I've been refilling multiple times each winter for 15+ years. I use them with a "Little Heater Buddy" heater to warm my home in the winter (I live in Florida). I'd be willing to bet that a few of my tanks have been refilled over a hundred times.
Ok, I have read a lot of your comments. That said who has thought of the OPD valve on the 20 tank? When you up side the 20lb tank that valve cuts off the flow of Gas. That is a safety valve for the container. It was a very good design for the vessel Just saying. Stay Safe out there Guys. I've been burnt in the past and Safety is always a blessing. I did like the video and it was very informative. That is my two cents, take it with a grain of salt.
I was not happy the day that I was forced to upgrade the Valve in the last old style Valve 20 lb tank that I had.
I new it was the end of the inverted tank refill.
On the subject of refilled one pound " green" cyl. While it is legal to refill, it is not to transport them. Only the red refillable ones may be transported.
My goodness!Thank you for such an informational,fast and efficient video! Great work!
That was easy! Man I can’t even count how many of those I tossed over the years! Thanks for sharing brother!
Hope all is well Dom thanks
good stuff MY VALVE ARRIVED AS I SAW YOU PRESENTATION I HAD BEEN USING THE STRAIGHT OUT VALVE NO BLEEDING GOOD STUFF
I've yet to refill a 1 lb tank but a neighbor has been refilling for. years..The process does work. 👍👍👍
IT’s recommended NOT to use needle nose pliers to release air, but use an Allan wrench and push the middle needle where tank is screwed into.
I disagree, it's too easy to damage the o-ring. Pulling up on the saftey pressure relief valve is a natural function for that valve. That's what that valve is designed to do, release excessive pressure to keep the bottle from exploding if the internal pressure gets too high. In fact working that valve is probably ensuring that the valve is free to operate not unlike occasionally exercising the pressure relief valve on your hot water tank. If you test for leaks using soapy water and find your valve is leaking a very light tap on the pin always reseats the valve.
The safety valve is metal, the needle nose pliers are metal, a slip activating the valve could cause a spark while potentially flammable gas is exiting. Really bad possible situation.
@@ecobuilder508Good call bud! DUH! I'm pissed at myself for not picking up on that while I was watching him do it!
its not air - its propane gas you are releasing.
You are correct thanks
It is dangerous to refer to propane gas as Air. It is propane gas.
And that is what my stove uses to create the flame to cook my hamburger. It's just not co2..
The valve in those canisters is just a small smooth rubber ball. When the rubber ages or dirt gets in, they don't seat smoothly. So they leak. Even new ones leak.
And, unlike your bbq tank, there's never an inspection. It can rust through.
So can you refill it? Sure. Till it goes BOOM and blow up.
Now go to the store and buy a couple of brass caps, with gaskets, that screw on to keep the propane inside even when the little rubber bsll leaks.
A second adapter fastened to the one pound bottle can be used as a valve to purge the bottle without a chance of damaging the release valve or the pin in the main valve. This could be handy if you want make sure the bottle is completely empty for any reason such as disposing of it.
Freezing the bottle, which cools the liquified propane, which causes there to be less gas pressure from vaporization will allow more liquid fuel to enter the bottle just like releasing some of the vaporized gas reduces the pressure. Having the bottle sitting in ice water as it's being filled might help but haven't tried it.
Super idea and tip for us “normal “ campers.
Tim this is the first video that I have seen with so much detail. Most folks just show that you just hook it up from the big tank to the little tank and that's it. Very very cool buddy and I promise I will never never transport a refiled tank 😉
yea right billy! Me either!
Thanks guys
There is no "air" in that tank unless you screwed up substantially. You are absolutely releasing pure vaporized propane. If there is any liquid propane in that tank it is just flashing off from liquid to vapor and not changing the pressure in the canister at all. What you see when an LP dealer is filling a tank is a controlled release of vapor while filling with liquid so that the liquid can continue entering the tank. To really do what you are trying to do, the best way is have a warm (not hot) tank and a frozen 1 lb cylinder to be refilled. Then the temperature change will keep the pressure lower in the cylinder being filled. The problem with my method is that its possible to overfill the tank if you don't know what you are doing. Your advice here is not safe if there is ANY source of combustion nearby. You are leaking propane everywhere.
Cooling your 1 lb bottles in your freezer for about an hour is a great idea, that's what I do. Heating your 20 lb tank (even though it will speed up the transfer) isn't a good idea. Chilling you can still overcharge but less likely that will happen if you weigh the bottles periodically. And even if overcharged the pressure relief valve will prevent the bottles from exploding.
I tried this on the smaller 14.1 oz can and it doesn't seem to hold the gas very well.
When I disconnect the adapter, I get a rush of air and a slow leak of propane.
My adapter came with caps for storing the tank, but is my tank not worth using cuz it won't hold the propane?
I tried using the torch on it just a few minutes later and even full open couldn't get enough pressure to ignite the flame?
"bleeding off the 'air'" in the 1lb tank is effectively cooling it down reducing the psig so you can put more liquid in.
As you bleed the gas off, the liquid propane will begin to evaporate to maintain the temperature pressure balance for propane. The liquid propane absorbs energy when it evaporates, thus cooling the liquid propane and container down lower than it was. Allowing the warmer supply bottle to push more LPG at a high psi into the bottle.
This why cooling or freezing the 1lb bottle allows a fuller fill.
very good info you are the first to explain it in detail
Thanks for the video! Just a thought, why not screw on a fitting with a shut off valve to the canister and bleed it that way? No allen key or messing with the pressure relief valve. Or use the filler assembly unscrewed from the fill tank and use it's valve to relieve pressure from the canister? Thanks.
Had the same thought
When bleeding off the air, have you tried using an Allen wrench to squeeze down on the tank's center pin valve instead of using the needle nose pilers to pull up on that offset relief valve pin? That's the way I have done it in the past with good results. Other CZcamsrs have said they feel like it's a little easier and possibly less "damaging" to the tank valve parts. Any thoughts on that method?
What everyone is calling a Schrader valve is actually a pressure release valve, which open whenever the bottles internal pressure exceeds a set valve, which prevents the bottle from exploding.
I would worry more about causing the tank to leak using an Allen wrench to bleed off the gas than using needle nose pliers on the pressure release pin. What people who refill these bottles fail to mention is you should use a bit of soapy water to check for leaks when Refilling is completed. If you find the pressure release valve is leaking a slight tap on the pin has always resealed it for me.
Why are you bleeding the tank? Lol 😂
@@mr.honeybee7661 I guess I'm just a sadist? ... :)
Dude. This is one of this MOST INFORMATIVE video out there. I recently got a Buddy Heater. So I’ve been doing my research. I have been so scared to refill my tanks. Thinking I was gonna get arrested. The cops probably got better things to do than fool around with propane tanks. But thank you so much
Yesss how would anyone stop you on the road and test for refilled 1lb. tank ! Lol 😂
No.
I have a buddy heater too. 1 camping trip, 5 nights. 3 tanks a night. 6 dollars for 1 propane tank. Waste 15 tanks. 90 dollars compared to 20 dollars in a 20lb tank. I wish I knew about this.
@@denisedevaughn544 Not sure why you didn't ask about an attachment/adaptor to be able to directly hook up a 20-30 lb tank to your heater.One time purchase,much more convenient,just get the bigger tank refilled/topped off as needed
If you use your buddy heater that much it might be easier to get the adapter hose that goes from the 20 lb bottle to the Buddy Heater, that way you don't have to mess with the little bottles❤
When we fill tanks, you open bleader till liquid gas comes out, then they are full, no need to keep stopping, just wear gloves as you'll get frost bit if the liquid touches your skin. Ive filled 1000s of 20, 25, 40 pound tanks and many 100s of 1 pounders. Great vid but just saying bleed as you fill and stop when it spurts will save you tons of time.
trust me it helps a shitload if youll put the bottle to be filled in the freezer for 30 min before you fill you also fill the tall ones commonly seen with torch heads I normally dont fool with the bleeding & usually there about 60 65 % full
NEVER mess with that valve. Over time you will damage it and it WILL start to leak causing a dangerous situation. Stick a blunt thin instrument into the main valve and bleed off some vapor, then refill again until it weighs 1 lb.
Keep in mind that when liquid propane is evaporating the temperature is -43 degrees F. Be especially careful when bleeding off the air by keeping the bleeder valve above the level of the liquid propane. One drop of liquid propane on your skin will ruin your day. Also, it's a good idea to put a few drops of soapy water on that bleeder valve when you're done. Just to make sure it sealed and isn't leaking.
My experience from refilling these 1# bottles is that once you mess with that Schrader Valve, about one in three will begin to leak. I have instead purchased Flame King refillable 1# bottles and have had absolutely NO problems with leaking in any way, shape or form.
@keith9875
I use a bit of soap water to check for leaks. Whenever ive found a leak, a light tap on the Schrader pin has always sealed the leak. Resealable containers are fine if you wish to pay the price. Personally, I have better use for my hard earned money. There's never any danger in Refilling disposable bottles if done in a safe manor.
@@keith9875 I've had the same experience with them leaking after refilling. The Flame King tanks are what I use as well.
Thank you, Gentlemen, for your astute comments. They are very much appreciated. However, please use proper grammar and punctuation. The text of the original video author is unacceptably difficult to read because he did not use any proper punctuation Schade. (German Language [Deutsche sprache] = Too bad. )
@@wuodanstrasse5631Well, alright. Then I suppose there's nothing left to say here except...Gesundheit!
You should mention that over 1 lbs or over 80% is to much. There should always be 20% left empty to prevent pop off or bursting in higher temps
Great video and idea, just follow the precautions for safety.
Very informative. Thanks for this detailed video. Great job! I really appreciate saving the environment too. Although my first thought was what can I make out of those cute little tanks?
Beware of cutting the tank
Beware of cutting the tank
Beware of cutting the tank
That 1lb to 20lb adapter should have an air bleed screw built in on the gauge side..
5:55 if you want to SKIP to when he finally starts telling you HOW TO do it. Thank you for pointing out that you can't transport it because that's what I wanted to do for my van life. So I'm going to get the flame King refillable canisters that are certified for transportation.
That's exactly what I did. Safer tanks too. I bought 3. Happy filling!
But maybe a large unnecessary expense, I suspect those Flame King bottles are just a scam to get you to spend money on their product. I think that "transportation" in this case refers to shipping, not carrying.
And how would they know if you refilled it or not?
@@benjaminkgooden9329 good point
Maybe they are built better for long term refilling and less likely to leak?
This is the best instructional video I've seen on this. Great job Tim. Hope you are well brother
Great to see you Chris
About 20 years ago, Academy had these one pounders on sale for 98 cents, yep you read that correctly " 98 cents". I bought 30 of them and I still have them today. They have been stored in my air conditioned home over that 20 years and they are still like new.
Here in the Netherlands these things cost 18 euros which is pretty much the same in dollars. W-t-f😮
A potential firefighters nightmare. Propane cylinders have no place in a building.
Thank you for reading the disclaimer about refilling these illegal to be refilled containers. Safety is the reason. They put double yellow line in no passing zones for your safety. Guns have safeties for your protection. There are legal and safe ways to refill refillable 1lb tanks. Taking someone’s advice that the Federal Government is wrong, isn’t very responsible. But, you’re right, these “might” explode or catch fire. Best of luck.
They are not lined inside to resist rust like the refillable one
These little cylinders are contaminating the banks of every Lake in this country Propane company should be alliable to buy these things back.
the right way is to bleed the air off AS IT FILLS.
Thank you !!! You are the only one who explained that you need to release the pressure in the smaller tank. I thought that "valve" was a pressure relief I knew that there was a pressure problem when I tried before. Thank you SO MUCH !!!
That isn't a Schrader valve, you are correct it is an over pressure relief valve. Testing for leaks with soapy water should always be done and if the valve is leaking a very slight tap on the pin always reseats the valve. Releasing the excess propane gas should be done using the pressure relief valve and not using a tool inside the office of the tank which can result in damaging the o-ring seal. The pressure release valve is designed to release excess propane gas pressure from the tank, so if the valve is working properly there should never be a danger of the bottle ever exploding. In fact you are actually making your disposable bottles safer by exercising your saftey pressure relief valve when you're Refilling your bottles, by ensuring that the valve is free to open in an over pressure condition. These bottles normally don't vent excess gas unless the bottles temperature gets too warm which increases internal pressure
In Canada we're only allowed to fill tanks to 80% capacity, and currently we pay over $10 just for a single. I have a basic adapter with no gauge. I don't fill my cans more than 50%. That's plenty for what I need.
Excellent explanation and demonstration. Thank you very much.
Suggestion, turn off the background music, it quickly becomes extremely annoying. You ask us to listen for the gas stop flowing, however your music gets louder. It is beyond my why CZcams content creators think it is cool to play music over their voice. We came to hear and understand what you say, but we must fight the music.
Ni
This by far is one of the most accurate ways to do this. This is how they are filled at the factory, basically and no you don't have to use a fridge. FYI a 1# cylinder is designed to hold 1# to the80% volume and a 20# cylinder to hold 20# to the 80% volume. A 20# cylinder should weigh 36-38# (tare 16-18#) You only get 15-16# with an exchange cylinder.
Thank you. I will try bleeding the valve a few times to get tanks full of liquid. Great tip, and much simpler than my method. Thank you
I just bought one of these refill kits. I have a ton of those little bottles.
Make sure they aren't rusted or too out of date. Says manufacture date on surface sticker. Ours do.
Thanks for a very good instruction video, however It might be helpful if you stop the wonderful bluegrass music in the back groung for us audio challanged old people so we can grasp what you are teaching us. Again wonderful video thank you.
Yes you are right about this as I am hearing impaired and that background music is Killer~!!
I just vent the gas while the liquid is going in. It’s faster, idk if it’s safer or the same
THANK YOU SO SO MUCH BROTHER THIS REALLY HELPS BIG TIME. GOD BLESS.
I've been refilling the 1lb tanks for years. There was only one time I had an issue with a tank I refilled, and it could have happened even with a new tank from the store.
I was camping at Lake Havasu in August and was using a 1lb tank for my portable BBQ. I left it in the sun after cooking lunch and came back about an hour later and the over pressure valve had popped and the sides of the tank had expanded. I moved the tank to a safe area away from the RV and let the tank bleed off. I still refill the tanks, but make sure that I am not driving with the refilled tanks. I will refill them when I am at the campground and use them up before moving on.
its not about lies it is about the safety of leaks and imporper refilling.
Good video
If you are concerned about the relief valve not reseating fully, you can dab leak detector on the valve to check. I had a couple bottles that wouldnt seat, had to let the valve stem slam home again to seat.
That's one way to reseal the pressure relief valve. After Refilling I alway check for leaks and if the pressure relief valve is leaking a very light tap on the pin always reseats it for me. Retest with soapy water. I've never list any propane from a leaking pressure relief valve after I've reseated it.
I hope people realize that when “ purging the gas” you are purging gaseous propane making the bottle colder, bringing down the pressure inside the bottle and keeping it there momentarily due to the heat loss causing the propane to vaporize slower. This allows you to fill up more propane. The more economical and faster way is if you know you are going to do this, put the one pound bottles in the freezer the night before. You don’t have to purge them as much if at all, also depends on how warm your filler tank is.
Here's how I do it: I depress the Schrader valve, I use another heat source and heat the bottle while keeping the valve depressed to heat the air up inside. Then I let have spring shut & put the bottle in the freezer for an hour or so. This creates a vacuum in the can, the I fill with 30lb tank upside down.
We could hear what you want us to if you turn off the music.
Do not bleed with the safety valve. They can easily not seal and will leak. That is a good way to ruin the bottles! Just unscrew and use the needle nose pliers or a set of hemostats to bleed of some pressure, maybe 5 or so seconds. This will make room for the liquid and will cause the bottle to become very cold and that will help with the filling of the liquid propane. Do not overfill. Fill to about 32 oz. Total weight.
One other nice thing about refill. You could do your propane torches. Those canisters long, skinny ones.
Work's good, they're thrown out there. Cuz they're, like, 10 bucks a piece.
they got these new refillable one lb tanks i got one ,put haven't try it yet. the best is a plumber two.5 pounder and in Alaska . we full the propane tanks for the forklifts. just like he did. In colorado you can't have more than 6 100lb tanks in your back truck. I was the heater man on a 7 story building. 50,000 btu.
ive been refiling these 1 lb containers for over 40 years or more. cool your 1lb bottle in the deep freeze and warm your 2o lb bottle and hook up your coupler ,turn upside down and open both up . easy as pie .as a trapper ,little things like this ,help in the long run
Propane is somewhat similar to water / steam (H2O) in that pressure is needed to allow it to be a liquid. Water in the vacuum of space just boils until it freezes over. It is just propane needs more pressure / lower temperature to be a liquid than water. The higher the temperature, the higher the pressure needed to keep propane a liquid. It is the same sort of deal with water, except where you see it come into play usually is when you cook at a high altitude. (Or if you operate a nuclear reactor, high pressure water is used to heat water outside of the reactor to make steam.) At a high altitude, a.k.a., lower pressure, water boils at a lower temperature. Water making the phase change to steam cools as it expands into a gas. This causes the water to act as a refrigerant and cool the remaining water, causing it to stay at its temperature and not rise above it. So at a higher altitude, you need to boil food longer because the lower pressure causes the water to boil at a lower temperature. Here is something to try some time: instead of cooking at a high boil, cook at a low boil. It cooks just as fast; it is just you boil off less water at a low boil. Propane is also a natural refrigerant. As it boils into a gas, it cools. It is just because it needs a lot more pressure at room temperature to be a liquid, when it boils, it gets cold (where water is just not as hot) and the pressure in the tank goes down. If you are out in the Alaska winter and are jamming on your propane tank really hard, you may even see the flame go down because the propane in the tank is getting so cold from both the cold outside air and boiling into a gas in the tank as you use up the propane, that it cools enough to almost be a liquid at room pressure. If you get a propane tank cold enough, no propane will come out because its pressure has equalized or even dipped below the outside pressure.
This is another thing if you get into air conditioners / heat pumps. They are heat conveyor belts. It is just on the hot side, you have a high pressure forcing the refrigerant gas back into being a liquid. Think of it as reverse boiling / playing that boiling video in reverse. This of course produces heat as it condenses back into a liquid where boiling cools things down. Conservation of energy. It is just when you have a high pressure side and a low pressure side with a compressor and regulator valve, you evaporate the refrigerant (such as propane, but usually a non-flammable refrigerant) on the low pressure side to get the cool side and condense the refrigerant on the high pressure side with the compressor and cooling coils to cool it back down some with say the hot outside air in the summer to condense it back into a liquid. Because it takes a lot of pressure to condense it back into a liquid on a very hot day, this is a reason why boring a hole in the ground is desirable because deep in the ground stays a more average temperature and so lower temperature means less pressure is needed to condense the refrigerant back into a liquid. To get an idea of how much so, people who have switched to these underground systems have reported the power use on a hot summer day to be 1/4th of what it was before when using hot outside air for the hot side of the air condition. A heat-pump is just an air conditioner with the hot and cold side flipped. Extremely efficient, at least when it is not too cold outside, but you still need heating or if you again have a hole bored into the ground to get to a more average temperature to do the heat exchange with.
The reason why you need to have the large propane bottle upside down should now be obvious in that you have liquid propane draining out of the big tank like the drain in a bathtub draining down into the small 1-lb propane tank. If you ever go to a propane fueling station and can see how they are setup, you will always see a large vertically mounted propane tank with the fueling equipment taking propane from the bottom of the tank.
Considering all of this, you should NEVER EVER need to bleed a 1-lb propane tank. All that is ever going to be in there is propane. It is just a question of do you have a small amount to the point where the pressure is low enough to where the propane does not condense into a liquid at all; just somewhat pressurized propane? If there is some liquid in there, it is not all liquid because some of the propane is in a gaseous state allowing the propane bottle to not be filled to the brim with propane while maintaining pressure in the bottle. Actually, these tanks are designed to always have some propane in a gaseous form, so you should not fill them to the brim with propane. This is also a reason why those propane fuel gauges are nearly useless. All it is telling you is if you have low pressure propane in the tank or high pressure propane in the tank. They have no way to actually tell you how much liquid propane you have. What you need is a tank with a float in it like the tank to your toilet has a float in it so that it shuts off the water once it is filled back up. All that pressure gauge in the video tells you is high pressure or low pressure, but of course on a cold day it can show low just because the cold causes the pressure in the tank to be less as the lower temperature causes the propane to condense into a liquid at a lower pressure. On a hot day the needle is going to be high because it takes more pressure to keep the propane a liquid.
So this is probably why the federal government doesn't want you refilling these propane tanks because most people just don't understand how propane and propane tanks work and so kill themselves mishandling it. Getting a small propane tank to the point where you throw it away after one use is easy enough to build standards around it so people don't kill themselves. Getting into handling refilling on your home property somewhere is explosive accident city as people don't actually understand what is going on or how to do things safely. Like the guy here is a poster child of why these federal regulators made these rules. He is going to get himself killed simply because he knows enough to be dangerous, but doesn't know enough to be safe. Like a lot of people I see in this world. As you can see if you read what I wrote, the reality of how propane works is totally different than what the guy in this video thinks is happening. Even when evidence is screaming in his face that something is wrong with his mental model, instead of say going on Brilliant.org or Wikipedia or something, he just blows off the obvious and keeps on doing things in a very dangerous way while wasting loads of propane just bleeding pure propane into the surrounding environment. Then he only uses the Internet to post on CZcams of him doing things all wrong while those of us who did study a little are glad we don't live next to this guy, at least I don't live next to him.
Great investment ! Great instruction.
Great vid! Thank you!
Good job Tim, I have seen a few of these videos. I think yours was better.
THANK YOU in advance for looking over my comments and replying! Or to whomever does, Thank You. Note this is my third comment. Start below at my first comment and work your back back to this one last. After looking at some other videos, a new question came up. Is the the side value, that you call a Schrader value, where you use needle nose pliers to grab and pull, releasing the air back pressure, basically sharing the same main area of volume where the air collects with the main value (the one in the middle)? If so, is the side value "less" durable than the main value? Seems like it would be. And if it is, shouldn' that side value be left alone? You would release the air back pressure from the main value in the middle? I think that side value is if the tank is over-filled? Its an emergency release value. Anyhow, would it be a better idea to NOT use the side value at all? Fill using the main connection, then release the air pressure from the same main connection as well?
You just explained the most important point to all this refilling misinformation
There's no air in propane bottles, what you're bleeding off is propane gas to make room for more propane liquid. Put your empty propane bottles in your freezer for an hour before Refilling and you'll have very little gas in the bottle.
The valve you are opening by pulling up on that pin is an over pressure valve, used to vent off over pressure propane gas. This is why bottles should always be stored in the upright position. If an over pressure was to occur and the valve was positioned lower than the liquid propane level, the valve would emit liquid propane instead of propane gas.
Here's a tip people...
A lot of these videos tell you to pull up on the safety valve to release the pressure to get more propane into the cylinder.. DON'T DO IT! The minute you break the seal on that pressure relief valve, it will forever leak. You might not even be able to detect the leak with soap and water because it will be so small, but it WILL LEAK.
Don't believe me? Go ahead and fill one up then put the 1lb container in a zip lock bag.. Squeeze all the air out of the bag and come back in about 2 weeks and you'll see the bag has "puffed" up. That's propane leaking.
Better to put the 1lb cylinder in a freezer, then fill it up as much as it will go, then back into the freezer if you want it more full... DO NOT pull that pressure relief valve...
Thanks for that, very informative 😊
Your making this way more difficult than it is. Just leave it hooked up to the adapter and bleed the tank until liquid propane starts to come out.
Liquid propane is heavier than the gasious propane. So to fill the tank with liquid propane, make sure the larger tank is UPSIDE DOWN, then connect it together and OPEN THE VALVE ALL THE WAY. Leave it this way for a few minutes to allow the LIQUID PROPANE to flow down into the smaller tank. If you only open the valve a tiny bit, it inhibits this from flowing properly.
There is no need to "bleed" the air. There is not really any air in it, just gasious propane. Leaving the red valve open will allow this gasious propane to travel up into the larger tank as the liquid propane flows down into the smaller tank. BUT YOU GOTTA OPEN THE VALVE UP ALL THE WAY. LET IT FLOW!
The buddy that make buddy heater came out with reusable container.
And a hole system to refilling them now out a couple of days ago saw them at Walmart.
The reusable tanks are made of metal not plastic
Good video. 👍
Probably hear better if you didn’t have the music playing in the background
My bad
Liquid propane expands when it warms up. the reason that propane cylinders are not filled completely to the top, (80% volume) is to prevent hydrostatic pressure lifting the safety and losing propane, besides seeping gas as a fire hazard, the safety valve on the 1 lb container may not be as reliable as you need it to be on a hot sunny day. if you've ever shot a completely filled,sealed container of water with a rifle (Water, now cowboy) then you have seen hydrostatic pressure in action. also note, as you draw off from the 20 lb, some of the tank volume is refilled by the propane boiling off, which reduces the temperature of the liquid part, and reduces the tank pressure. bleeding the can is releasing propane gas, mixed with air that was in the adapter before it was connected. that is a flammable mixture, so don't wear your nylons, while moving about making static sparks.
Would a tool made of brass be of even better safety to bleed off the air ? Eliminating chance of spark ? Just curious....Thanx for the video !
I use a bamboo bbq skewer!👍
You're not bleeding off air. You're releasing propane gas. Not much tension is required to pull on the pressure relief valve pin. One should always leak test your bottles once they are refilled with soapy water. If the valve leaks tap the pin very light to reseat the valve. You could use a brass pin to reseat the valve.
For under $20, one can buy a tank that is legal to refill and transport. They are also easier to refill as there is a vent valve that is designed to be opened and closed. Messing with the relief or outlet valve to vent on a non refillable tank is asking for a leak. The best way is to cool the tank and use a weigh scale to determine when full. If I remember right, a new tank full weighs something like 2.2 lbs.
Yeah, from Flame King and Mr Buddy I think. I would go that route. I wouldn't consider these cans good for putting in a pack, they are heavy and bulky. This is passive filling and not pressure filling, when refilling the bigger tanks the propane is being pumped into the tank. Refilling the small tanks is just using the pressure inside the larger tank to flow fuel into them. I've refilled a lot of propane tanks on forklifts and we always opened the bleed valve while filling until a steady flow of vapor came out then shut the pump off. I try to avoid using these things, just get a 5lb refillable tank and a adapter tree for hoses to your devices.
I have a Mr Buddy portable heater and they recommend you use a filter when using a 20 pound tank so if I refill a 1 pound tank do I need to filter it before using the portable heater?
No. The filter is to stop the oils released from the rubber hose that runs from the tank to the heater.
@@ryans2031 thanks
I definitely agree with you but it's safer to purchase the one's that are meant to be refilled verses those Walmart coalman one timers!!!
Flame 🔥 king and now fuel keg makes some nice ones!!!
I'm thinking 🤔 ill have to check out the later manufacturer since they've added a bleed off valve!!!
What the bleeding procedure does is cause any liquid inside of the tank to evaporate. This causes it to cool reducing the pressure inside of the tank being blead. The larger tank will then push in more liquid. The liquid being concentrated will add more propane to the tank than what is being released from the tank. Gasses have a temperature pressure relationship. The warmer it is, the more pressure there is. One can look up in a chart exactly what pressure is in in the tank at any given temperature, (as long as there is some liquid in the tank). If you know the pressure, it will tell you the temperature. If you know the temperature, it will tell you the pressure.
I wonder who came up with the that enormous fine and jail term for refilling them. It would be interesting to see who pushed for that. Thank you for sharing this knowledge with us, Tim. Stay safe and stay warm
Take care Sean
How would they know.
All about the $
You can't ship refills which seems like a good rule, there's rules for transporting flammable gasses and once it's in a box your mailman wouldn't even know what it was. Probably be fine on the first or second refill, but what about the 100th? After the bottle has sat outside for years? Think about the dumbest person you know, then realize you don't know that many people, so chances are there are waaaay dumber people. What if all those people decided to mail an old rusty 1lb refill on the same day, from the same Post Office?
Instead of being outraged, why don't you see how many people have actually been convicted of the Federal crime of shipping refilled cylinders? It's more likely Coleman got the law passed to cut down on me or you undercutting them with their used cylinders.
@@BigFarm_ah365 Dumbacrat lawmakers bought off by Coleman and the propane industry. It's how they ALL become so rich while in office.....selling out this nation for their personal financial gain
I've never heard of the feds going from campsite to campsite looking for refilled cylinders being transported. It sounds like a good beginning to a cool story.
Not only that I fill my torch lighter , it's not good and junksup your torch , but it is doable
...So the gauge is useless?
Good information.
I appreciate you dropping by
When the 20 lb propane tanks went to the new triangle valves I Thaught was a saftey valve so when tipped over on side or upside down the tank has a float to turn gas off without turning triangle valve?
The triangle valve handle indicates it is equipped with a safety device which prevents gas or liquid flow if there is not a device connected to the tank. The “Wally mart” refill adapter fulfills the requirement so you can get gas flow (with the tank upright) or liquid) flow (with the tank inverted).
I've never seen it done this way before I'll have to try it..😮
The best " how-to " video I have seen on this. Thanks !!
Great video most informative!
i just use the main center valve to bleed. i got my adapter 13 years ago.
👍
I have been feeling these 1 lb canisters for over 20 years now. Sometimes I get them completely full other times I get them half or 3/4 full. I have never tried doing the bleeding off method. Maybe I'll try that later this spring. I also watched a CZcams video that recommended to put your little green canisters in the freezer before filling and I have found that I can get them even Fuller. I got my propane adapter from harbor freight when they were around $7 but these ones do not have a gauge or a shut-off valve.
Yes you can refill smaller tanks from lager tanks and you WILL save yourself a shitload of money.however,as you fill each tank ,pressure decreases in the big tank.Meaning each time you will get less of a " Full" refill. Less pressure in big tank means less pressure in little tank. Using a Snozel or other devices will still save you dollars.....
I have never understood why people who are doing a commentary video try to infuse background music??
The tanks as used on propane powered vehicles are better due to the fall tube inside then you dontneed to turn the feeder tank upside down.
Also, if you put an empty bottle in the freezer before filling, it lowers the pressure and will take a refill easier ( same applies to other liquids that ‘boil’ off to gas, such as CO2
I don't let them fill up completely - i leave .1 out because it expands depending on outisde temperature and I don't want them to explode :)
That's a good practice, but as long as the saftey pressure relief valve is functional the bottle can't explode from over pressure.
5 Yrs in prison.... LOL. I can see that conversation... What are you in for? Oh, I just refilled a 1lb propane cylinder then drove down the road.
🤣🤣🤣
Nice to know ty
If you freeze the 1lb tank, you get less gas converted from liquid propane. It is liquid you want to transfer.
I tried pulling up on the relief valve and 90% of my relief valves leaked with the spit test on the valve. I would rather bleed off air with an allen wrench on the center. I was able to fill to about 90% or more. I would not recommend pulling up on the relief valve.
Yep. I had a 90% fail rate doing this... Touch that valve and will never seal again.
Just lightly tap the pin to reseat the valve. I've never had a OPV leak propane after taping the pin lightly with tge tip of you needle nose pliers.
@@penncaptnot true just tap the pin with tge tip of your needle nose pliers and it will reseal.
Excellent video , thanks for sharing , God bless !
Thanks so much Michael
good video, sir nice and clear and I like the fact that there is a gauge in between the two tanks to help you visually identify when the 1 pound bottle is full.
question though. Why don’t you just purge the pressurized contents completely out of the bottle before you fill it up for the first time?
The valves on these tanks are not meant to be used repeatedly. They leak. I have had it happen several times. You need to buy brass caps with a seal to prevent leakage. P.S. You repeatedly repeat that you don't want to repeat yourself.
Flame King sells refillable 1lb bottles for $20 a pop. They're designed to be refilled. If your safety isn't worth that, by all means, refill a disposable tank.
That's why I bought the F.K. refillable kit and 2 extra cylinders. Safety first. 👍😊
Mr. Heater does too now. No tools needed to bleed either.
Don't be a pussy people have been refilling for years
When you open the safety valve and let some pressure out (while the 1lb is not on the refill device), all you are really doing is lowering the temperature of the propane liquid in the tank. Relieving pressure like you did causes new evaporation. New evaporation = colder temperature because it takes heat to evaporate. Freezing the 1 lb canister before filling will cause less evaporation during the fill and you will get more in it.
This is a really good idea and it's feasible. But keep in mind you will never overfill a tank.. my filling it with a bigger tank 20 or 100 lb tank.. to fill it would have to be pumped in your tank.. great idea saves money but you don't get a full tank.. so if you normally pack one tank for what you are doing. Pack 2 maybe 3 tanks. I actually do this but you don't get a full tank the equalize between 2 tanks
But definitely saves money..😊
Excellent point, nobody else has mentioned. When Refilling from a larger tank the most pressure that can be created in the 1 lb bottles is the pressure that in the larger tank, and is why when Refilling you hear the liquid propane entering the bottle until the 2 pressures equalize. You can actually get more than 1 lb of liquid propane in a 1 lb bottle, definitely unsafe, however if the pressure relief valve is functional it will release any amount of pressure that could even come close to causing the bottle to explode. Without these saftey pressure relief valves, propane bottles would explode if left out in the sun or in a very hot room.
Is there any issues with filling using the new 20# safety tanks w floats.
Toni could you tell me how to know if my 20 pound tank has a safety float in it????????? does that mean when I turn it upside down it will not fill my little 1 pound bottle. Thank you in advance for your answer.✔️✔️✔️
Awesome idea, thank you