MD-87 Crash Houston UPDATE 21 Oct
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
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"Them ain't my trees....can't do nothing about that"
Sounds like we stumbled on a touch subject Juan 😆
🦦🦥🐿😦🤣🤣
Report them!!
@@georges7340 , to who?🤦
@@georges7340 The tree situation will correct itself when the neighbors house burns down because of a urban interface tree fire (forest fire).
It's California, they would probably get an award from the coastal commission.
Having worked a similar accident (Comair 5191 in LEX) as an NTSB airframes working group representing the IAM Flight Safety Committee, this end result is so eerily similar from the departure end to the final resting spot and the condition of the aircraft, or in this case, what was left of it. Everyone should really be grateful that no loss of life occurred. Thanks again for the great info Juan.
I remember that crash very well. I'm a Kentucky native and was living down in London, KY at that time.
I was on that Emergency Response team that came down from CVG for 5191 and I was actually think the same thing…
How is the Comair crash any way similar. Didn’t they take off on the wrong runway - that was too short?
@@executivesteps ...Also, I believe 5191 became airborne briefly. I'm not sure with this one. There are tire tracks leading from the runway to the final resting spot. Did they take off, decide the airplane was unflyable, pulled the throttles back and tried to land and stop on the runway remaining? That would more closely resemble DAL 1141. Nice presentation, but we won't know anything until the recorders are disseminated.
@@DrSeuss-nv9hw From what I remember, there was an embankment at the end of that runway, that's what got them temporarily airborne before slamming back into the ground
Best part of everyone surviving is: everyone survived.
The second best part is you can ask em questions later ;)
Great comment!
@@patrickcoppens2164 There was already one comment out in the wild (before the owner put out a gag order) that the plane seemed to be accelerating slowly!
Astute
@@scottscouter1065 why would a gag order be placed on survivors of a plane crash. What a world we live in... smh
@@JBAutomotive794 Surely it's impossible to put a gag order on anyone? I thought America had free speech, the first time they thought of amending the constitution.
0:32 “Blancolirio Rain Gauge” - The perfect Christmas gift for those hard-to-buy-for aviation enthusiasts!
Available at Tractor Supply. I have one on my back fence. You can read it from a distance.
@Leslie Matheson - Thanks! 💦☔️💦
Id Buy one! 🙂
What about Metric version availability?
Costs 2.54 times as much
Some good speculation here but also some incorrect assumptions. I was there so I thought I’d share from my viewpoint. The fire behind the engine was from a grass fire that started long after the crash, we extinguished it quickly. Was not caused by the engine running, we had some pool fires burning and spreading in the grass in various directions. The brakes were applied 1,300 feet from the end. After the crew realized they had hit V1 and V2 and couldn’t takeoff they applied the brakes and braced for impact. The runway is 6,600 feet. The pilot told me he didn’t have any control of the elevator. Even two of them pulling back as hard as they physically could they couldn’t lift the nose. They were at roughly 170 knots when they decided to abort so I do not think it was the engine that prevented them from lifting off. They didn’t observe any noticeable indication that an engine had failed. Time will tell and my opinion here is based on a direct convo with the co-pilot an hour after the crash. The comments about long maintenance is true, it has been sitting idle on the ramp for several months. It didn’t really fly that often even before this latest maintenance downtime. The fire damage was severe and as we all know are lucky to have survived. Crew did a great job opening the doors and getting people out.
So it might be again that the elevator mechanically was blocked just like this could happen when parked in strong winds.
Then you just cannot get it to rotate.
I don't understand YT demonetizing what you are doing. This is extremely educational and important for people, even non-aviators, to know. Kids watch a lot worse than this all the time.
A lot of the decisions youtube tends to take are arbitrary and abnormal. Thankfully there are other ways to support these great content creators beyond CZcams itself. These guys definitely deserve the support even if CZcams tries to make it impossible for them to get it
YT doesn't do things with the interest of the content creators in mind. That's why many people call em 'Them Tube!' Their censorchip alone is absolutely ridiculous and they should be boycotted at all costs, but creators like JUan aren't going to do that because YT is still where the audience is.
CZcams is a dumpster fire. 🖕CZcams.
So true! And they still stuck in ads while I was watching.
This is what YT does. I understand not understanding it (lol), being that I also "don't understand" it, but I think it just boils down to tyrants and control freaks not being able to help themselves. These last few benighted years have been ridiculous and I'm beyond sick of it, but it's where we are.
The local news here in Houston said it had not been flown since last December, so the comment about long maintenance period is probably true.
One has to wonder if a maintenance flight was conducted after repairs and prior to PAX being on board.
Wouldn't doubt lack of FAA oversight, is a contributing factor in this one.This operation appears to have been run on the cheap. Anybody can go and pull an old airliner out of the desert on the cheap, stick an executive interior in it, and impress their friends and associates. Operating one safely requires a considerable budget.
Thanks for a great update regarding this MD87 accident. Good description of the mid pedestal and the functions of the take off warning system. As you asked for comments regarding the Slat extend/mid position, it is as follows (if I do not remember wrong - I'm not a pilot, but have worked on the flight control system on the DC9/MD80 for 39 years, now retired 😊 ) : When on the ground selecting handle from UP/RET to 0 extends the slat from up/retract to mid seal, the stall warning computer then perform a self test of the autoslat system by extending slats automaticly to full extend and then retracting them again to mid seal. Moving handle further to 11 position will extend the flap, but keep the slat in mid position. Beyond the 15 degre handle position the slat will move to full extend. The computers test of the autoslat function when moving handle from UP/RET to 0, will not be performed when in air.
Thanks Jan! That’s it!
In short-----EXCELLENT presentation and discussion!! Even a novice could readily understand what you were saying. Great job.
Looks like this is a penny pinching corporate flight department. I would imagine that you could buy an MD87 for less than 6 million dollars. Nearly all of them are mothballed in deserts. From the late aughts to early 2010s, Delta collected MD90s like baseball cards. These cost about 9 million per aircraft (at the time). The downside of this? These hard working old girls are labor/maintenance intensive! The parts are increasingly rare and hard to come by. Parts, that you can track down, are expensive. After the NTSB completes it's investigation, I wouldn't be surprised to see the FAA take a hard look into this flight department.
@@DrSeuss-nv9hw Makes complete sense to me. Thanks.
Morning Juan great video and great analogy I always watch your videos and always learn something from them. I was a fligh instructor on the ERJ 145 for a few years and saw some weird and wonderful things from the backseat. Sometimes brilliant teamwork and sometimes stuff that was a little scary too. One thing I saw on more than one occasion , and not saying it happened here, but would like to share with you, was this:
On a high speed engine failure after V1 but before VR where the crew correctly continued the T/O the following would happen: as the crew member applied rudder to counter the yaw from the failed engine , he would unknowingly also apply brake to that side while stepping on the rudder pedal. (Flying with your heels not on the ground) . This would cause the A/C to yaw more ,so more rudder and more brake would be appllied . It will slow down acceleration just enough not to reach VR and on a short runway you will run out of runway with full power on. Most guys will then just sit and watch as the a/c races of the runway with full power on one side , blaming the sim , because the book says after V1 it should fly.. right?. Even on times the guys did get airborne its interesting to bring up the brake temp after T/O to show the guy what he did because he will never believe you.
Also important if you made the choice to stop never change it to go again. Always try and go of the end of the runway with no power even if you still doing 100 knots. Also rejected take offs and evacuations were probably the excercise most experienced pilots stuffed up and I always made an effort to do two or three in a two day sim slot to build confidince and muscle memory. Doing it slower is always better.
Great channel and keep up the good work
Regards
Hellcat
Thanks for that insight, Kinda the ultimate pucker moment when you are between V1 & VR when that engine out can occur. Amazing how foot position can be so influential at this point and probably only this point of the entire flight, any other time your kicking in a boot full of rudder like that the brake application would do nothing.
Sounds right - it veered to the bad engine side at the end of runway.
@@davidterry6312 Let's not forget just how light that thing is on its feet at that speed, although not technically flying there is alot of weight not on the main wheels. Makes it easy to yaw with that asymmetric thrust doing it.
Excellent points!
Hey , I flew models with Kent at the Boeing Hawks field. He also took us over to his fathers house and MR Wein took us for a ride in a beautiful Stearman .Very nice people .
Thanks from a non-flier for you excellent report. Rain total 10-20/21 in Cameron Park was only 0.11”, at 1200 elevation.
Glad for your rain. I went to College in Chico nearby and I miss it, but I miss the 1980’s Chico. My son graduated with his engineering degree from Chico also. I went to see him graduate in 2019
I was AMAZED at the degradation of what was a pretty college town
A tragedy really
California has degraded all over the state since the 1980s sad to say. Beggars and homeless are now everywhere. Almost third world country now.
The Democrats have perpetrated voted fraud in CA since the 1980s. This has led to one party rule and a free for all against CA citizens. Why? Because half of them are hard working Republicans.
@@toomanyhobbies2011 And that right there is bias masquerading as facts. I don't want to argue with you, because i agree that many of California's laws are overly restrictive, but the fault ain't that "you have democrats in charge" it's "you have idiots in charge", you see, it doesn't matter which political party you're a member of, you can still have a membership to the idiot club.
@@toomanyhobbies2011 think your on an incorrect channel. This is about aviation .
@@toomanyhobbies2011 if you keep repeating that nonsense, does it become true? nitwit...
I hope you and your family never lose your house Juan
Please follow this through to the end. I am anxiously awaiting the next installment. Great video and although I am not a pilot I love the detail and the checklists.
Local Houston television reported that the NTSB observed "hard braking marks" for over 1000 feet. They also reported that the NTSB is looking very hard at the white smoke from the #1 engine.
Smart, cogent analysis- this is why I love this channel.
I always know that you have given the most accurate, complete information available at the time, in your reports. Great follow up sir. Everyone getting off intact is the best news of course.
NTSB did an update a few hours ago on local news here in Houston and said the aircrafts last flight was in December 2020....
hmmmm.
@@blancolirio kind of makes me wonder what the flight crew's recency of experience was on that aircraft type.... I'm sure it will come out im the preliminary report.....
props to the crew in getting everyone off of that plane
It sure helped that the plane stopped with the exit area right on a dry road.
Two good things to be grateful for:-
1. The MD-87 had no serious injuries and no fatalities. That is a very good outcome.
2. California is getting rain. Hopefully, this will top up aquafers, get streams to flow, fill up the dams and dampen down the undergrowth. Here where I live in the UK, we get LOTS of rain (like all day today) and seldom see the anguish drought causes other folk elsewhere in the world. I hope you now get plenty of rain - like we do!
It's a quirk of some states that a number of them get rain like the U.K., and others get droughts!
We’re going to need a LOT of rain to put a dent in this drought. Thanks for the good wishes, though. We can use them here.
I]d rather be in LA now, rather than this cold, miserable wretched country...
The aircraft didn't end up too far off the end of the runway--only a couple hundred yards--before trees spun it around after hitting the left wing. That tells me that the aircraft wasn't traveling that fast when it departed the paved overrun into the grass, which implies a rejection had started and some braking had already occurred.
ABS pulses are visible in the skid marks on the runway.
Slightly different from the seasons here in Wisconsin, here we mostly just have orange barrel season (road construction season) and winter.... Not a pilot but rode a bunch of DC-9s and MD-80 series in use as regional jets to get me from my little local airport to a hub in the first decade of my career. They don't hold a candle to the comfort of the e175 (though the 717, also pretty nice, is related of course), but they did have personality, usually very friendly crews, and none of that annoying barking dog compressor thing on taxi that a320 have. Quite memorable being dripped on by the AC of a DC-9 while chatting with a flight attendant about aircraft.
Years ago I heard Johnny Carson say the four seasons in California are Fire, Flood, Mud and Drought.
Wow, I learned so much this time. That old "DC -9" was one of my favorite aircraft to fly in in my early years as a passenger. I always felt so safe in them foe some reason. To see this old gal suffer such a blow made me sade but knowing there is someone out there who is so prepzred to explain what happened now is a great comfort.
Me too!
I rode a bunch of old 9's.
As long as you did not sit by the engines
Toooo noisy
Great humor...great learning tool! Thanks for covering this crash. No lives lost - awesome
I worked for years on DC-9 aircraft and, although the MD series had a later version of the P&W JT8D engine, they were very susceptible to off-idle engine stalls during blustery conditions, which was nearly all the time here in Melbourne, Australia. It is possible the crew thought they might have had a simple off-idle stall during the initial T/O run and decided to keep going, as an off-idle stall seldom caused any damage inside the engine as long as the throttle was retarded to idle until the stall cleared itself and the aircraft attained a bit of forward speed.The JT8D’s were very robust. Occasionally, however, off-idle stall would result in flame-out, particularly if continuous ignition was not selected. Any post-flame-out selection of continuous ignition would normally result in a tail-pipe fire. Hope this is helpful; just my experience of these aircraft.
Maybe….winds were pretty light.
I could have a blast talking to you for hours. 👍
@A. Melbs I worked as a LAME (A&P inUSA) with TAA on line maintenance at Tullamarine from 1979 to 1990, when I moved to Kuala Lumpur to work for MAS. Coming back to Australia, I was sent to Brisbane Base Maintenance when Qantas, the successor to TAA, closed their Melbourne base. I’m 67 now and considering hanging up my boots.
My uncle made wings for the DC-9 in the 1960s and 70s at the MD plant that used to be in Malton Ontario near what is now called Pearson International Airport in Toronto's suburb Mississauga. Not relevant to this discussion, just thought I'd mention it from a historical perspective.
Juan I love the great learning environment you’ve created on your channel here with “digital hanger flying.” Debriefing an event is very important for learning and what a great opportunity we have with technology to debrief these accidents from miles away.
Never been so happy to see rain on CZcams
The "Dan Gryder-DTSB" credit got a hearty chuckle 😂
Best care in the air.... MD-80 Kimberly Clark Midwest Express, loved flying them
Glad everyone got out with minimal injuries
I would look at the elevator system. There was a crash of a charter with a collage basketball team at a small airport. The elevator was NOT controlled by the yoke directly but by a tab. There was a second tab that was independent that was locked in the up possession, which would control the elevator to go down. It had been forced in this possession by high winds from behind the plane where the it had been sitting for a few days. When the pilot pulled back to rotate, it did not respond. He shut down the engines and applied the brakes skidding off the end just like the MD-87 did, but did not burn. I believe it was a MD-80.
The skid marks show he applied the brakes just past the point of rotation. With such a short runway, 6610 ft, he did not have time to reverse trust.
It appears the trees caught the left wing and ruptured the tank there since the trees caught fire at some point. The trees spun the aircraft to the left which caused excessive side loads on the RMLG snapping it off with the remaining mount digging into the ground.
At 7:06 the nose gear is to the right of center suggesting the pilots were trying to steer right to avoid the trees ahead and possibly countering the right engine thrust if the left was shutdown by this time.
It appears that in Model Airplane airfields, there is always a big "model grabber tree"... Too bad full scale passenger airplanes have to end up being destroyed by trees left by incompetent Airport officials, together with berms, badly designed lights and other conveniently forgotten obstacles...
Similar accident was an elevator jam when time for rotation. Lots of runway past certification for V1 cut eaten up. Need FDR to know if #1 engine showed symptoms to crew. Fuselage damage could have prevented fuel cut-off to #2.
FDR & CVR and elevator will tell the tale.
Excellent presentation and analysis as always, Juan. Since everyone survived, and the engines are relatively intact, hopefully this one can be investigated quickly.
Juan, NTSB should be paying you, Dan, and VAS for these preliminary reports. Mahalo for all you do!
Just wanted to jump in and complement you on how good your presentation has gotten! Combine that with great coverage and research on important stories others don't cover enough and you have an awesome channel. Please never quit!
So funny you said that Juan, when I moved out of California back in the late 90's people asked me why I left the state. My reason, Riots, Fires, Floods and Earthquakes!
first off, what a relief RAIN can be !! what I gain most from your presentations relates to the flow of discussion making, (success / failure). thank you.
I was working for AA when Kent made the video. When we look at the inside of that busy cockpit, it had the same mechanical submarine look as a DC-3
The investigation will eventually lead to a common denominator. But, one thing for sure, the good Lord must have been riding along. Thank you Juan for sharing your knowledge ..
After watching your first video on this, I found a couple other MD87s that had the same white smoke blow out the engine. Both rejected their takeoffs very early without further incidents.
They didn’t say what the cause was?
@@keithhoss4990 Nope. The videos were taken by individuals with no connection to the flight or aircraft.
Looking at that wreckage those people are very fortunate to have made it out alive I'm so thankful for them
Great update, wow that brings back early morning flight memories on the MD from the warning chimes, I haven't heard those in yrs (amazing how that brings you back) happy to see N California getting much needed rain, just dont need any floods out there.
Regarding what may have been a compressor stall; having flown B-52s many years ago, we would occasionally encounter compressor stalls, but with 8 engines we didn't worry too much about it. But I did learn what they sounded and felt like. On one unrelated occasion, as a passenger on a 737 seated over the wing, we encountered a compressor stall on number 2 engine and the takeoff was aborted. I talked to the pilots as we were deplaning and I mentioned to the pilots that I heard what I recognized as a compressor stall on number 2 engine. I was surprised when they were surprised when I told them that and that they did not know there was a compressor stall. They just rejected the takeoff because they saw some unusual readings on the engine instruments and not because they recognized there was a compressor stall.
Aside from all aboard being alive, the second best part is that those pilots can talk with the investigators and find we can all out what was going on as they rolled down that runway.
I guess it was a > V1 rejected takeoff
Sad to see a MD-80 done for, but happy everyone got out OK. Many fond memories of my time as ad manager for NY Air in 1983 during the introduction of the MD-80 to the fleet. And yes, back then new aircraft intros were a Big Deal. It made the hand-me-down -30s look tired indeed. And they all went to CO after the 'Big Bang' in Jan 1987 so seeing the manual ...my my.
Well mate we had all 4 seasons here in Victoria Australia-floods, earthquake, riots and fire season coming up, and I'll bet we'll get that soon enough
Riots thanks to Chairman Dan!
You failed to mention lock downs. Move to Queensland mate
Please forgive the trip down memory lane generated by Capt. Wein's video.
The MD80 was marketed as the "Airliner of the Eighties". It provided more seats, more powerful engines and improved performance and range over the DC-9. In reality it was the DC9-80, with everything in the cockpit above the windshield and everything below the instrument panel on the center console being lifted directly from the venerable DC9 with its 1950s DC (Direct Cable) technology. It was a trip in the Wayback Machine to the days of the DC-7.
The MD80 replaced the DC-9 instrument panel with improved instrumentation and vastly better autopilot, digital engine displays. Flight/Performance Management displays and digital EFIS flight instruments were available on later models...
Being designed in the '70s when the Space Shuttle and solid state digit displays were "the thing", the autoflight engineers apparently took it as a challenge to cram as much capability in the autopilot as possible. IIRC at one point I counted 19 autopilot switches, buttons and knobs that combined to control a couple dozen flight functions... When training new pilots (many who came from modern, less complicated regional jets), we often observed them doing the "MD80 Cobra" where their hand rose then appeared to be a cobra deciding which control to activate. 😀 Good times in a great airplane!
You are now returned to your normal programming ☺
PICS
MD80: duckduckgo.com/?q=md80+instrument+panel&atb=v265-1&iax=images&ia=images
Flight Guidance Control Panel: duckduckgo.com/?q=MD80+flight+guidance+panel&atb=v265-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images
DC-9: duckduckgo.com/?q=DC-9+instrument+panel&atb=v265-1&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images
Well, they haven't stopped the ads Juan. The most I've ever had on one of your videos (about 5 breaks)
Well, if we get to speculate, then I will say either the crew or some very experienced people helped to get those folks off of the plane quickly! And if I'm correct, then hats off to you!
If your neighbor is a Blancolirio fan, those trees will be cleaned up within a week. lol
Dan Gryder owns the adjacent lot.
If they are on friendly terms, I would ask to pay for the clearing to a pre-agreed distance. Some neighbors still look out for each other, especially when a long ways from a fire dept. I have also helped install dry hydrant with 6" line, and auxiliary pumps with 100' fire hose and nozzle. Man it's fun to test those.
lol thinking the same.. Have chainsaw.. Will travel. j/k
@@gmcjetpilot Then it might take a while.
Does cleaned up mean thinned or Walmart parking lot?
Has anyone commented yet on the similarity with the March 2017 Ameristar MD-83 overrun at KYIP? (T/O aborted past V1 due to jammed RH elevator). That could have happened here, too. It would account for the late abort (but not the lack of T/R or the asymmetrical grass burn).
you might want to show this to your olé buddy Dan Gryder he thinks the plane took off and flue to the crash site, kind of hard to fly and leave skid marks and tire tracks at the same time.
Couldn't be a crash on landing.
1) It's not upside down.
2) There's no cornfield.
Having done so many post aircraft crash surveys as an aviation lost surveyor of Lloyds of London, the tail always survives.
UA93 says otherwise
I have a question. Why don’t airports put cameras along the runway. Not next to it but idk 20yard (In the grass ) away from the edge of a runway . Would be useful for instance like this
A live web camera would be awesome for planespotters around the world, and yeah, could offer useful evidence in the event of an accident. I like your idea! 😎
The question is, who is gonna pay for those cameras? As helpful as they may be, it's hard to justify the expense for an "occasional" use. But, I do like how you think.
Thank you Juan for maintaining lay language for non pilots. As always, excellent explanation and no speculation.
Southern California only has three seasons: Wildfire season, Mudslide season, and Awards season.
Canada has two...Winter and Construction.
What a chance to get such technical explanations about MD 8Xs, love it, very good job Juan😎👌
Some hangar flying a friend and I did one night saved his life just one day later. The whole idea is that we need to talk through all the possibilities and have them 'top of mind' .
Nice review. Brought back lots of memories. I was a young engineer on the MD-80 working Landing Gear in the Mechanical Design group. The same group handled pilot controls and I remember some of those engineers talking about the very complex mechanical systems in, at that time, most all Douglas aircraft. The MD-80 was probably the peak of those designs before digital computers took over...an evolution McDonnell Douglas had trouble adapting to. Thanks again for the memories.
I believe Dan Gryder says in his video the accident aircraft is NOT the one that had/has been worked on for a extended period at that field
Now they are reporting that it had been out of service for ten months to be worked on.
@@rayburney4795 should be some records to get to the facts on this, I would think. There was reporting that the acident airplane belonged to a home construction company, and was taking people to Boston for the baseball game. I supos3 this deadline might have given some folks involved with a sense of time pressure.
White puff of smoke on engine 1 before takeoff, burned grass behind number two engine but not behind number 1 & no reversers. Sounds like a failed engine slightly over V1. We don't use reversers when experiencing an engine failure on a two-place aircraft. They weren't in a slide either because you can just barely make out the nose-wheel indentions in the grass. It was tracking straight and just before impacting the trees with the left wing, the pilot kicked right rudder. If you look closely you can see the nose-wheel indention get closer to the right-side main gear tracks just before tree impact. I absolutely love that everyone survived this.
What's up with Houston and large aircraft going down? First Amazon, now this. It's a miracle that nobody was killed in this incident.
This is a small general aviation airport 35 miles west of downtown Houston--one of several around Houston. Two international airports are far north of town (Bush) and close in southeast (Hobby). I don't remember an Amazon plane going down--or even that there are Amazon aircraft. A FedEx went down on approach to Hobby as I recall last year. Funny you should bring up Amazon, though, as south and slightly west of this airport is a one million square foot Amazon warehouse; also Costco and Igloo distribution centers.
got on a MD-80 in Charleston,WVA yesterday after watching the news...holy crap was I scared. called my youngest and let him know about it. told him that I love him. Those folks were lucky
Welcome to the rainy season! I occasionally have to tell transplants who complain they miss the seasons that their problem might be they lack subtlety. Jennifer must be dreading the Wrath of Dan! Thanks for your clear, informative, expert reporting!
As a 65 year native of California I've thought of the 4 seasons as Fire, Flood, Earthquake and Drought.
Yep, with Flood having a slash Mudslides reference depending on area. ✅
That puff of white smoke at the start of takeoff roll looks like unburned fuel vapor from the number 1 engine. Be interesting to see the previous history of engine maintenance, ground runs, etc., since the aircraft underwent extensive maintenance prior to this takeoff.
Maybe that engine failed at throttle up and threw everything else off?
Too hard throttle up ??
Until 11 you have the slat at mid position, from 11 to 15 a DO NOT USE write appears on dial flap, from 15 you have a (full) EXT slat position
Ciao ;)
Thanks vertical!
Last nights news said this was a "small plane". A MD-87 be 'small' among airliners, but it's BIG next to general aviation pieces.
Media don't know squat about ships, airplanes, or other forms of transportation for that matter
Media doesn't know much about anything on any subject. They butcher all subjects equally. I wish more people realized this.
Ha! The female MD-80 warning voice is the EXACT voice of the computer on Star Trek...!!!
Thought the same thing. Majel Barret saying "Working..." would sound exactly the same as the MD-80 warning voice.
Those older generation of low bypass turbofan engines like the JT8D's were more susceptible to compressor stalls that contemporary designs. I wouldn't be at all surprised if that was the puff of "smoke". Perhaps they missed it or disregarded a comp stall and rolled on anyway and it consequently led to the accident.
What a breakdown. This guy covers all the bases. Thanks Juan.
Amen on the end of the fire season. Had enough of that nonsense. Let’s hope the rain relieves a bit of the drought, eh? Drove up to Black Butte reservoir a couple of weeks ago, can’t believe how low it is.
Thank you Juan for this report thank God everyone got out safely. God bless everyone.
Starting to sound like a series of bad decisions. Can't see how that puff of smoke from the #1 wasn't a compressor stall. They had to have felt it. Why would you press on at that point? But the skid marks on the runway look like an engine failure after V1 and some indecision on the flight deck as to whether to abort or go. (Hint: if it was after V1 they should have continued). Very confused about how a professional flight crew could have gotten to this point.
I did watch some of your very earliest presentations. I have been very impressed by how professional quality the analysis is here. Even with the subject matter being tragic, it well worth watching.
"Fire, floods, riots and earthquake" Juan you just made me laugh with accurate
observation of looney state.
Agreed 👍🤣🇺🇸
Juan missed one season. Mudslide season. follows fire season every year without fail.
Juan also left out pestilence, that's likely just around the corner.
Always joked it was drought, fire, Flood/mudslide, and quake seasons here...
Your comment at 8:05 about the mechanical marvel of the center pedestal is appropriate. There are at least thirty cables to the controls and indicators.
Likely the initial event was the #1 engine and then other events followed with a late notice to the flight deck. Those skids look to be from braking as a lot of the initial braking could have been applied moderate to heavy but as they noticed their distance/speed was not ideal, they put the fully applied forces to the brakes. Doesn't appear to be ABS brakes but they did have forward steering control from the looks of it up until the slippery grass and impacts with trees to the left slowed down and spun the aircraft counter clockwise. With those engines in back, unsure what might have ignited the fuel. More info will follow...
Non pilot here… how do you determine ABS breaking applied? I see dark spots on the trails which to me verifies non ABS but foot pressure breaking but not enough to force ABS on.
Again, non pilot here but my guess is they had warning right before V1/V2 and were in between diagnosing the issue and trying to fly.
Either way, training paid off here and the MD-87 Did its job and everyone lived. All the matters here, it performed as expected in the situation it was in.
@@DougJosephDMJ abs isn't based off of foot pressure. Once the wheels lock up, abs kicks in automatically regardless of foot pressure.
@@DougJosephDMJ ABS usually will not leave long continuous dark/black marks as seen. ABS leaves dashes of rubber typically and much more difficult to see them. I'm not sure what year commercial aircraft was introduced to ABS but it appears this one didn't have it.
@@gsuburban "Anti Skid" systems have been installed in Aircraft for sometime now B-707 and on have had them as well as DC-8 and on. All versions of the DC-9 into the MD- series will have had them installed. This aircraft most certainly had it installed. Whether it was turned on or not is another story
@@waynewhelan3069 Good to know
Hi Juan,
It was nice meeting you at the High Sierra Event. I appreciate you being such a down to earth person. Thank You!!
Thanks JW!
Considering the total destruction of the plane, it seems pretty astonishing that there were not more serious losses of crew/passengers....apparently the plane stayed intact until they were safely out, but it doesn't seem like there was much of a time window for all that had to happen in those moments. Nobody did anything stupid that prevent successful evacuation. Pretty impressive performance on the part of every one of those folks.
Remember the Air France A340 crash in Toronto? The fuselage was destroyed by fire while the wings survived. In this case, where is the left wing? Was it ripped off and burned in the trees between the wreckage and the runway?
From an Aussie, I hope that the rain brings some blessed relief from the worry of fires. It’s been a really rough few years for both our countries, the seasons seem to start earlier and go for longer the last few years. God bless all the wonderful fire crews.
Slats are “mid” with flap handle 0-13 deg, and “full” with flap handle 15-40 deg.
Also, IIRC with the slats in the "mid" position the autoslat system will activate to fully deploy the slats if a stall is detected
@@jimmbbo 100% correct.
That’s it! Thanks Fred.
Thanks for the shout out Juan! It’s no 777, but I sure enjoyed flying the -80. Heck, I haven’t met an airplane I didn’t like! Hope to join up at a Husky event with you sometime.
Yay! Congrats on that rain! We don't have much of that down here in LA, so when you're finished with it, send it down here! ;)
I understand that people in LA drown when it does rain there because they don't understand why water would fall from the sky. :)
If you notice the nose wheel track is not centered between mains and is biased toward the right /operating engine which makes sense if right rudder was applied to maintain centerline. That said, if that kind of correction was needed the operating engine was not at idle or reverse thrust as in an RTO. My 2 cents says engine failed but crew either did not recognize the problem or reacted very poorly to it.
Rain in CAL is a double edge sword, if it's dry then there's a possibility of intense fires. BUT if it's raining there's vegetation growth which in turns becomes a problem when there's a drought.
A lot of it down to little investment and bad land management,
Thank you Juan for another great report. Also for that summary on the MD’s various Master Caution warning alarms I found that vary interesting. Until next time.
That was a text book compressor stall! With the engines that far behind the cockpit they may not have felt it in the cockpit.
I really like how genuine Juan Browne is! Keep up the awesome work!
You forgot Volcanoes. Love the channel since the damn. You provided better coverage then any news organizations. Ty
Here in western mass, to much rain, but everything green and lakes full. Great explanation on cockpit layout
Probable Cause channel says it got airborne. Looking at the tracks from the RW to the ground, I do not agree.
The photo of the puffing time looks like it is off the ground.
@@bruceharkness4497 It's on the far runway, the grass is above the bottoms of the tires
Thanks for the good info for a sel pilot. Good to see Pete growing up, what a proud Papa you must be.
I'll be waiting for the answers from the crew. Just guessing, I'd say the left engine died and maybe they didn't know and just kept trying to gain speed? So glad they all survived and can answer these questions!
I’d say partial power loss. Engine failures can be insidious. If the plane didn’t yaw, and either of both of the crew members were new to the plane (tunnel vision), it’s possible they didn’t recognize the tell-tale signs until the end of the runway appeared and they still were not at V1.
They did not have full rated thrust or they would have left the ground, OR stopped on the runway. 1 engine or 2; does not matter.
i loaded many mad dogs - 88’s and 90’s for Delta Air Lines and the data recorder and voice recorder are located in the rear cargo hold by the number two engine, .....
Arizona here. You can send some of that water our way. Keep the riots, though. We don't have riot season here.
Tucson here. We had a rainy July, August, and September. This month? Meh.
@@martharetallick204 I'll admit, it's been a wetter year in general. But we're still in a drought. Phoenix could use more, and I would LOVE to see up north just piled in snow.
Good luck with that NorCal needs that rain desperately.
Pilot not wanting to disappoint his employer, and carrying on (puff of smoke at stabilisation- it'll clear...) then - realisation take off's not happening, tire marks from braking at the end of the runway, but no reversers deployed. Bit of a conundrum? At least everyone walked away.
Great explanation of those flight controls Juan…no other channel like it…other than yours on Patreon! 👍
As a retired engineer from McDonnell Douglas / Boeing, I can guarantee that the MD 80 series was the most solidly built airplane you ever flew.