What IS Concentric Twisting? | Motorsport Wiring [
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- čas přidán 28. 06. 2024
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Ever wondered what goes into laying up a concentrically twisted harness and why it is a go-to technique for wiring harnesses used in professional motorsports like Formula 1, MotoGP and many more?
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Concentric twisting has a number of advantages when it comes to reliability and durability, but they do come at a cost which Andre explains in this [TECH TALK] on the use of concentric twisting in a wiring harness.
As well as the detail behind this method, wiring stripping and connector crimping are also covered to give you all the knowledge you need to decide if this is a technique you would like to employ in your own wiring projects, and if not, understand why it is used by others.
TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Intro
0:50 - Breaking down a Concentrically Twisted Harnesses
2:15 - The Advantages
3:55 - The Disadvantages
4:58 - Stepping up the layers
6:16 - Connectors used
7:58 - Crimp Tooling
8:49 - Which Positioner do I use?
9:24 - Stripping the wire and the correct tool for the job
11:43 - Stripping & Crimping demonstration
13:10 - Inserting the crimp into the connector
14:26 - What if I insert the crimp in the wrong place?
15:04 - Loops on the back of the connectors?
16:46 - Performing Strain relief loops
17:16 - Another tip for your harness
19:35 - The setup
21:35 - Building the Harness
24:04 - Completed Layer
24:39 - Summary
25:00 - Do you want to learn more about concentric twisting?
25:21 - Outro
Courses Mentioned:
Motorsport Wiring Package Deal: www.hpacademy.com/professiona...
Wiring Fundamentals: www.hpacademy.com/courses/wir...
Practical Wiring - Club Level Harness Construction Course: www.hpacademy.com/courses/pra...
Practical Wiring - Professional Motorsport Harness Construction Course: www.hpacademy.com/courses/pro...
Want to learn more about motorsport wiring? Start with a free live lesson: bit.ly/MotorsportWiring
#highperformanceacademy #learntotune #concentrictwisting #dontletthesmokeout #wiring101 #twistedworld - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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Building a fast car? Get $400 OFF the all inclusive VIP package deal: hpcdmy.co/vipy43
50% Off! Enrol today and learn how to build your own concentrically twisted wiring harness: hpcdmy.co/offery43
TIME STAMPS:
0:00 - Intro
0:50 - Breaking down a Concentrically Twisted Harnesses
2:15 - The Advantages
3:55 - The Disadvantages
4:58 - Stepping up the layers
6:16 - Connectors used
7:58 - Crimp Tooling
8:49 - Which Positioner do I use?
9:24 - Stripping the wire and the correct tool for the job
11:43 - Stripping & Crimping demonstration
13:10 - Inserting the crimp into the connector
14:26 - What if I insert the crimp in the wrong place?
15:04 - Loops on the back of the connectors?
16:46 - Performing Strain relief loops
17:16 - Another tip for your harness
19:35 - The setup
21:35 - Building the Harness
24:04 - Completed Layer
24:39 - Summary
25:00 - Do you want to learn more about concentric twisting?
25:21 - Outro
Thank you - Finally a video I can show my clients when they ask why harnesses cost so much... your videos are always appreciated
Fascinating and overwhelming at the same time. This is definitely skilled labour!
And I just thought my OCD had OCD. Fantastic job, fantastic information.
As someone that does this everyday, this is definitely one of the better explanations I've seen :)
Glad you think so! Chers Josh - Taz.
There is a lot of crossover between motorsport and aviation, this is one thing I'm so glad that doesn't. That being said it looks amazingly effective for the task. Daniel's kits and cannon plugs are ubiquitous in the aviation industry.
Verry similar to military also
A tool that would help with wire management while twisting is a set of combs. Have a tight fitting comb at the loose end, and a loose fitting comb so that you can slide it down the length of the wires while twisting. Between the pinned end, the tight comb, and the sliding loose comb, you've more or less created a mechanism that'll recreate how ribbon cables hold themselves neatly together, except with individual wires.
Assuming you find a comb technique that works for you, you can easily scale your twisting process up from 6 wires at a time to larger amounts, if not the entire bundle itself. Though the twisting technique is entirely different, it'd be more efficient to take the bundle and loosely spiral it along the length of the conductor, then start tightening the bundle at the pinned end and work your way down to the loose end until the twist is tight. Benefit of service loops is that they allow enough extra wire to where the tight comb doesn't need removed during the process, tighten the twist, remove one conductor from the comb at a time, loop, and pin.
The only concern is the introduction of branches along the cable, though due to how combs are designed, it would be easy enough to remove the branching conductors from a primary comb setup and transfer them to a secondary comb setup. Bit of wire management gymnastics later, and you'll end up with a good branch. Personally, I try to keep as many of the outer conductors within the branch as possible, makes things a lot neater. I've also found that flexible plastic rod with the same diameter as your jacketed conductor gauge can be a suitable dummy wire, for when branches don't like to play nicely and take up a significant amount of a twist layer; at a much, much cheaper price than the wire itself, and when you have branches, there's really no need for a conductor to fill dead space, as you can't future proof that dead space when the combined connector is already full and there isn't going to be any communication between the two branches.
Replying to bump up this comment. Well said.
I'm an apprentice at renault/alpine f1, this is very hard to learn but I want to get it right, watching your videos in my downtime, a lot of it is just experience though.
This is so awesome, thank you for opening my eyes to a new hobby and passion. I swear, one day, I will own a shop that does custom carbon fiber molds, engine tuning, fabrication, paint and refinishing, and now wire looms. This is why I love to work on cars, your craftsmanship can directly represent your passion. Awesome video.
This is the manliest macrame that I've ever encountered, it makes all the manufacturers harness look like a bowl of spaghetti. Thanks for taking the time to do these incredibly through and well thought through videos. Like, subscribed, and working my way through all of your vids.
Fun fact, this is about 90% the same as aviation harnesses minus the concentric twisting and a couple other minor things :)
Nice job. Quality wiring always saves time in the end. I've built hand layered instrumentation harnesses for use on military test vehicles in the past and have been told off for the extra time it takes but I've never had to rework anything that wasn't destroyed by a Squaddie's boot.
One of my 'just knock us up a quick bit of wiring, it's only going to be used for a couple of days' was still in service after two and a half years. Main thing I learned was that TE, Racal, Raychem and the rest really know how to charge. Buy more than a handful if MIL38999 connectors and the cost of the DMC tool pales by comparison!
One of best race tech channels hands down if not the best
Cheers man! Glad you are enjoying the content 😎 - Taz.
Finally a video I've been hoping for, late on the trigger but still got here! As always HPA killin it!
You just got a new subscriber, because of your excellent detail trying to achieve the highest quality. You just help me improve and up my game even better than what it was by adding your knowledge to my knowledge thank you !.👍
Love the more indepth video on concentric wiring looms. Saw one of your documentations on it before and have tried it a couple of times in practise looms and seing it done in a video points out some mistakes i made on the way, thanks for the precise details and tips 👍
I understand the need for flexibility for ease of installation, but the wrapping requires a significant amount of additional wire, increasing both weight and length which I would expect to be unwanted in the industry. In the aerospace industry we use either full scale mockups, form boards or AR to layup a harness that fits perfect and uses the least amount of wire (Saves mass and minimizes voltage drop). Obviously if there is specific flex needed to accommodate a bending route (around a mechanism), the harness is built for that purpose. Love the videos!
the wire harness will be more flexible, but there are few instances where this is useful. The usual goal is to provide plenty of points of support for a harness to minimize any flexing. Might be useful for wiring that has to cross a mechanical pivot.. maybe to bring wheel signals back to the chassis? Of course, in that case the number of wires would be minimal and there wouldn't be any reason to do this stuff.
This stuff is soo therapeutic! :D ... Love it
Pardon my French but holy fuck I love this channel! When my project is starting to frustrate me I watch these vids and know my finished result will leaps and bounds above the cars next to me. Great job
Hey there, great video. You inspired me to re-do/ rework the complete harness of my custom Race-Motorbike. I'm not as perfect as it's shown in your great videos. But practice makes perfect and the rest is to my "German Craftsmanship" 😁.
I thought while rebuilding my engine is also remake my harness as i was adding additional solenoids and sensors to run Subaru AVCS heads, and as i currently have fly leads to pressure and temp sensors i thought it would be a good time to incorporate those as well. Now i kind of wwnt a bit overboard with what i was doing as i used tefzel cable amd raychem DR25 heatshrink with a concentric twist on what is essentially a road going track car. Ive followed many of your webinars and i mist say it really helped amd i find the task very enjoyable 👍 while not perfect, im very pleased with my results
The Daniels is the only tool used for avionics crimping. It’s recognized industry wide as the standard. Anyone who is not using this crimper is not doing work you want to be a part of. There are just certain tooling which is essential to accomplish high quality, high reliability work and the Daniels is it. Enjoyed the handwork in this video. Yes, it is labor intensive. The best wiring harnesses always are. In high end work, this is how this grade of work is measured. Stay safe mates!😊👍🏻😷
Add 10+ wiring bonus to your skillset via an HPA t-shirt today (or at least when the postman delivers it): shop.hpacademy.com/ - Taz 👨🏻
Your harness connectors and DMC tooling are actually for the Aerospace industry & military applications originally. (Also, they're not cheap!!) But I've thought about doing this on a project vehicle. Simple plug and play, and water-proof connectors. Good video, thank you!
Also, in aerospace connectors, when stripping the wire, usually around 4mm-6mm of wire length exposed so when you crimp it into the pin, you'll have a .5-1mm gap of wire showing, so the insulation doesn't show, like you stated here.
We also used Thermal strippers. That helped get a clean strip and consistent strip length as there was an adjustable stop/block on the strippers.
Using isopropyl alcohol helps with insertion and removal. Especially if you have some stubborn connectors (it happens, especially on removal)
They're not cheap, however, neither are the connectors that you will be using along with this tooling, so it is all relative.
Cheers for sharing your thoughts and experience there Brian :) - Taz.
Amazing video. Literally was thinking and researching on venduring to make my own motorsport harness. This video and the notification is a sign for myself to follow through and craft my harness. Thank you very much for this video. If I have need any further education, I will be sure to check the website and classes. Thank you
Good man, I hope you enjoy the project and if you take your time to do it right I'm sure you will be really satisfied with the results too 🤘 - Taz.
@@hpa101 question how do you determine transitions from concentric twist layup to parallel
a dry erase whiteboard and properly color coded drawings take a ton of the headache out of the equation.
My first wound wire harness was a beautiful piece for one of my rx7 builds ..it was the last piece I built after hacking on factory harness and not having the cleanliness I was looking for.then switching from factory ecu to a motec standalone... it was a motec rep that first told me about wrapping wound harnesses it also pays to know what sensors need for shielding there wire some hall effect sensors are really picky I have learned over the years from one ecu to the other also grounding is substantially higher in the success of a great wiring job especially when wrapping...since then I absolutely love it when I need to build a harness I build all my race cars from power train to fab/chassis manifolds exc. when someone wants to pay I build customers as well.. let me reassure your statement on the tool,do not!!!!!! go with a knock off!!! or a China look alike/comparable.. tbt your better off soldering every pin to wire connection if you don't have the correct tool I have used the China set to just close the pin to wire then sweating solder in is my preferred method .. asm is pricey u can find on ebay periodically.. but the money saved in time chasing down a bad pin when its a intermittent gost will cost you more than you can imagine in money,time,sleep,headache as well as tools lost or broken buy being properly pissed off at the intermittent gost you will cause...
Would love to have one of these made. The hard part is trying to find places that actually make them.
It’s not actually too hard if you just search for #motorsportwiring or #concentrictwist on instagram
hard part is the budget :) plenty of pro places but you will be on a waiting list!!!
Learn it yourself
non-ferrous foil shield doesn't protect from electromagnetic radiation, only RFI high frequency radiation. need a twisted pair with the braded copper shield over the top of that for EMI protection, & grounded correctly , eg the mil-spec PTFE casing stuff, pretty expensive, but nice to work with
How do you determine wire lengths for a concentric twist harness? For a regular harness, I just use string to get wire lengths but is there a multiplier for a concentric twist?
It’s roughly 10% for the first layer and less after that. In general you make them long and cut to exact length.
I would assume you'd use the string model as a template and begin to branch off once you got to a break point where the wires split off into another strand so no "real" measuring
@@nathanleon5039 Yeah but that wouldn't account for the extra length that gets used making the twists.
@@hannahranga well you'd just twist wire until you matched the template
You need the formula for the length of a helix, there are calculators available online. You would probably use the string method to get the overall length then use the calculator for all of the individual wire lengths plus a bit extra as a margin of error.
And I forgot to ask one question: what do I do when I want to make a small "part harness" out of just 7 wires. Just twist the 6 wires around that one Centerwire, or do I need that second layer to get that concentric twist effect so that the cable ist equally flexible in every direction?
Hello. Could you tell me how to calculate the relationship between the increase in the length of the wire and the angle of the concentric twist? I need to estimate how much the wire length would increase.
What you’re looking for is the formula for length of a helix. This link will do the math: www.vcalc.com/wiki/helix+length
The longer answer for the math-inclined… use the classic Pythagorean Theorem (a-squared plus b-squared = c-squared) to find the long edge of a right triangle. a = the diameter of the cable you’re wrapping around * 3.14 (Pi) * number of twists per foot; b = 12 inches; the value of ‘c’ is the inches of wire needed per foot of cable.
So, if you wrapped around a 1” core 2x per linear foot, you would need 12” (for the linear part) and then 1.55” (for the 2 wraps) = 13.55” of wire.
What I don’t know is the benefit of choosing more or fewer wraps per foot. Maybe more = tighter bend radius?
Bringing back the old memories of having to haul all three Daniel's kits to my aircraft to repair wiring, it sucked 😑 lol.
is this DMC crimping tool able to do crimping for those superseal 1.0 connector found in most ecu ? if so which part number should i be getting ? thx
Is concentric wiring recommended for RG316 coax cable or is it better to run coax cable in parallel ?
As an aircraft avionics tech with 20 years experience (10yrs US Air Force) & NASA certified; you guys have too much time & effort making wire looms. Use Teflon insulated wire & waxed nylon lacing cord with saddle clamps at the "cannon" plugs. Works for fighter aircraft and jet engine heat.
Yes this is a pretty specific technique and it isn't always required. The pros have to outweigh the cons, and as you mention that is predominantly time - Taz.
because they can is the biggest justification. Without causing to much offence, I think motorsport harnesses are a con, aircraft manufacturers dont do it as you said, OEMs dont do it even though emissions controls could benefit in the same way performance applications supposedly benefit. I do like the ability to bend a loom without stressing a wire yes but you can achieve that other ways too. Put it in the same category as pie cutting a piece of pipe you can buy off the shelf as a mandrel bend for $20.
I've started using wax tie off for cable lacing looms, in building automation industry, works a treat!! so much better than cable ties inside a cable duct
True, but I'd rather one of these harnesses, than anything in half of the apollo space crafts. These harnesses are made because you can. Not because you were time poor. If anything it says perfectionist and quality. Plus they'll last a lot longer in regards to a similar material in this environment.
Teflon wax coated is the mild steel equivalent to having stainless. Both work but one is shiny and slightly better.
@@jamual8 We are not making sculptures. We are making something light, durable, and repairable. As many engineers have said “If it is fast, it is beautiful.” Regarding old techniques, take a look at the F-22 wiring. It is still done with the same techniques. Because it is light, durable, and repairable. You do not want to be the guy that causes a DNF, or a missed flight.
Amazing video!! Could you share the vise link? I want my home have the same vise!
Don't buy that green one, we wouldn't buy it again. This is a better option: nz.rs-online.com/web/p/vices/6677189
Hope that helps! - Taz.
How to calculate number of wires in each layer when NOT using the same gauge? I've never been able to find a table or something
No doubt about it, it looks very nice and tidy, but like you said this takes a great amounts of time and planning. But for the hobbyist or every day person isn't going to spend the time it takes to do it. The down side of this type of wiring, is that if there is trouble down the road with this harness that you spent putting together , there is no repair it's a replacement of the harness and usually it's one of a kind and you get to do it again. I've been in the aviation field, and the only place this type of harness is used is on the engine and no where else on the aircraft is it used, because there isn't a need for it. This type of harness is on a commercial level and the Daniels crimping tools and connectors that your using has been in the aviation industry for as long as and I can remember, and that's been 46 years. I'm a aviation electrician and work for a number 1 commercial aircraft production company and this practice isn't practical unless you working for a manufacture or fabricator. When the engine arrives the harness is already preinstalled on the engine and has been tested and ready to go. And my own opinion, this is tedious and mundane with no satisfaction after the harness fabricated. My big question is, where would you use this practice in real life, it's a very specialized type of work? PS even if I did know how to do this type of work I wouldn't.
A lof ot hobbyists can and do take the time to do this, but certainly not all of them nor do they have to.
Just as some people bang out a quality project in 12 months or less and others take 30 years. We're all different with different goals, projects, finances and interests. That is one of the great things about having a project, you can find out a lot about yourself and your intersets as well as strengths and weaknesses along the way 😎
This is specialised work, but there is demand of it. Check out our podcasts with some of the wiring gurus for insight into the industry from those in it. Use the podcast filter on this search: www.hpacademy.com/search/results/?q=wiring - Taz.
@@hpa101 like I asked you where would you use it in real life? Where can it be used?
@billbabbs3871 I just saw your reply sorry, YT doesn't do a good job of showing replies on comments vs new comments.
What applications? We have probably most commonly seen it done in the drag racing scene, however, we are potentially a little biased as Andre naturally gravitates towards drag cars due to his own personal history and interest. Time attack would be another disciple that you see a fair amount of concentrically twisted harnesses in too.
You can do it anywhere that you feel the pros of it outweigh the cons however or if you are using a trusted professional you can chat to them and they will advise if it is something they think you require if it is a service they offer - Taz.
www.hpacademy.com/blog/062-the-secrets-to-building-a-pro-level-wiring-harness-podcast/
www.hpacademy.com/blog/018-is-milspec-wiring-overhyped-podcast/
www.hpacademy.com/blog/from-tuning-to-motorsport-wiring-solder-vs-crimping-mil-spec-vs-autosport-tech-talk/
www.hpacademy.com/blog/wiring-a-winner-1200hp-tilton-evo-v2-motorsport-loom-insight-tech-talk/
24:11 the money shot
Where did you buy those little vises?
Please help, I can't turn it off, the CZcams algorithm brought me here, but I'm too hypnotised to turn it off!
You should have half the wire diameter of exposed contuctor at the back of the pin. Great video.
Thank me later, guys. 23:11 The most satisfying part of the video.
What vises are used in the video?
We got those from Jaycar locally to us, but there are a huge range of bench vices out there at hardware stores etc. Note the suction cup ones suck - Taz.
www.jaycar.co.nz/search?text=vice&CSRFToken=95e2007b-a7cb-4c0c-9f4f-847db1bc0fa0
Where can you buy oem connectors for the ecu and sensors?
There isn't one source as it depends on the vehicle you are working with. Ryan talks about it in this podcast episode: www.hpacademy.com/blog/049-turning-a-wiring-side-hustle-into-big-business-podcast/? - Taz.
10:03 you say that now but you show exactly opposite at 12:03 and reassure at 12:41 so did you crimp it wrong or did you tell us how to do it wrong ???
What's the purpose of this wrapping technique? Looks good by the way- but the signal quality ??
Pretty sure the video covers it all, but just in case there is a bit on what you mention here: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/the-truth-about-concentric-twisting/ - Taz.
@@hpa101 Thanks for sharing- this is what I need to know. Great Craftmanship work. I make the development of wiring harness for a premium Brand in Europe. High quality wiring harness over lifetime without problems and a high stable and Long durability of the network- but this kind of work is complete different but really cool.
Is the harness that comes with a Holley Terminator X (specifically for a 24x LS setup) be concentrically twisted? If not, does anyone sell one that is?
Why don’t you look it up? Probably took more time for you to type this post (instead of google) and hope some one responds to it to give you the answer.....
No and no.
For what??? To be a cool guy? There is no added benefit YOU will notice.
The Chinese crimps tools work just fine. They’re literally the same exact thing.
Hay cursos en habla hispana ?
No sorry Alex, we can only answer questions members have while learning in English so we stick to that in order to not have people with course material that can't asked questions about when required - Taz.
Hi, how do I get the wire .. ?? how to order and how to pay .. ?? I'm from Malaysia..can you please suggest to me ..
There are a bunch of wiring suppliers listed on the HPA forum. The best on for you just depends on your location, timeframe and also what other materials you might need. Check out this section here to get started: www.hpacademy.com/forum/efi-wiring-fundamentals?
What's the advantage to using filler wire instead of just increasing the angle and length of the necessary wires? Aside from being able to add stuff in the future, which isn't really a consideration as far as I've seen. I've always been under the impression that you shield what needs shielded and wrap everything else around at whatever angle is needed.
@@brandonlittle6444 The added length would be negligible, that's a common misunderstanding. Especially considering only certain sections of the entire harness will warrant being twisted. I see too many people twisting every lead to every connector just for the sake of twisting it. As far as angle vs wires, I'm not sure what you're getting at, or if you understood my point.
If the entire layer is covered or filled up by using more wires or more twists, then either case will be the same weight. With more twist, the path length of each wire will absolutely be longer. With more wires, the individual paths will be shorter and those extra conductors for future use certainly don't hurt anything. If you are just OCD about having cold wires in there, then suit yourself. In my mind, even if I will never add any functions, if I happen to have a problem with a pin or contact, an extra conductor already in the bundle might be just the thing to save the day with a quick swap.
@@JosephHHHo Never said there was a difference in weight with identical cross sections... Alright, so I'm not going to flip out and call you a bunch of names, but I'm going to go out on a whim and point out that you've obviously never built a harness, or anything else for real racing use on a real track in a real race with real points on the line. As I already replied to what's his name above, it's pretty damn hard to add so much length to a wire that it causes issues. I mean, really? I've got meter leads that are VERY long and guess what? Doesn't matter... We're talking feet here, not miles. As far as having extra wires to jump to in case of a problem... WTF?! Are you serious right now? Sorry, but that won't ever be the right way to fix something. Do you know how harness faults even happen? Obviously not. It's not a matter of being OCD, which I kind of am (comes in handy doing quality work.) It's a matter of not causing problems in the first place, not adding potential areas for issues to be, properly diagnosing a problem , and fixing it the right way so it doesn't come back. Redundancy has a time and place, but you've got to use your own brain. There's NEVER going to be a situation where you have a problem with a wire and the right thing to do is just jump to a complete different one. Where's that wire go after the next connector? Please don't ever try to charge anybody for your work.
@@brandonlittle6444 Sorry, I should have started my original post with a disclaimer notifying that my question was directed at the channel creators, not whatever filthy casual wanted to take a swing at a guess in spite of not having any idea what they're talking about. I really don't want to crap on this comment section because this is actually a really good channel with some good people behind it. But you make it really hard for me to bite my tongue
What you’re talking about is a linear twist, which is used in F1. They don’t want the extra weight of filler wires, and the harness is usually wound through several carbon enclosures for strain relief, so they don’t use concentric twisting or many layers. If you concentric twist, you’re gonna need filler. Twisting the layers tighter leads to a stiffer harness, looks goofy, and is harder to work with in general. You twist every lead, yes. You do it for strain relief and easy of sheathing.
Rfi protection
where i can find that kind of bench vise ?
Don't buy one of those, they are not something we will replace like for like. We would instead buy these which are also what Zac uses at home now: nz.rs-online.com/web/p/vices/6677189
nz.element14.com/stanley/1-83-069/vice-multi-angle-76-2mm/dp/1696668
You'll probably find a better local source to you, that's just what pops up for our location - Taz.
In my experience in my industry standard commercial spec means it will usually work and it may fail. MIL spec means it costs twice as much, it WILL fail, and they will all fail at the same time in the same way.
Sounds like you might need to take a look at your tools and techniques if that is your experience as it's certainly not the norm for everyone. I hope you can get to the bottom of it and get more enjoyment out of your wiring projects - Taz.
DMC AFM-8/Ergo Elite wire strippers are almost $900 for the pair. Wow that may be too much for a novice installer
Absolutely, but if you want to pay someone working to the same level you will quickly find they are also outside of your budget in that case too. The solution would be to focus on a 'club level' style harness which is more budget orientated for both tool and materials noting some of those circular connector are also $100's each.
Every option does have a trade off, but you can have a perfectly functional and reliable wiring harness without using those specific tool, or if you are set on them you can buy some with a few a few friends or in some cases even rent them to help keep costs down. It's up to you and what you want to do with your project - Taz.
www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/crimping-on-a-budget-tools-and-materials/
What am I looking at 4:20?
A solder sleeve - Taz. www.hpacademy.com/blog/crimping-or-solder-sleeves-splicing-shielded-cable-free-lesson/?
I use to make sub sea cable for the oil field. I have a few tips if you wanna shoot me a message
Wiring porn... love it!
Pretty sure realistically you’d only see this in a show car as on a race car you can’t spend the next two weeks changing a bad sensor wire
Race cars have extensive datalogging so you would know exactly what part is messed up. You would just quickly zip wire the component rather then tracing and relooming a bugged wire. For the most high end stuff (offroad endurance, LeMans, F1, etc), they are designed with quick disconnects to swap sections out in seconds.
LOL Race cars with there fancy wiring. my Land Cruiser uses Spaghetti wiring.
Very well done almost...instead of watching your hands...it would have been more informative to see the positioning of the strands
Hasn't this wiring technique been uses since the 60's, in all GM cars and trucks?
Looks like hot wiring, temperature wise...
That's why learning about anything involves more than just looking as that is only one data point, and a lonely data point can send you down a very wrong path 😅 - Taz.
@@hpa101 I guess what I meant to say was current carrying conductors get hot when bundled.
@@joehead1294 sounds like you're having temperature issues with your own wiring while bundling right? That is not an issue we have had when using this concentric twisting method, twisted pairs, or having wire bundled together in heat wrap in general, as if you were having that issue, it wouldn't matter if you used this technique or not, your wires are still bundled together in your loom!
There will definitely be more heat than if you just flailed your wires about everywhere, but not to the point it should be an issue if you have sized things correctly for their purpose, which means you also need to consider length vs voltage drop, like you should in general.
I would say you are either using the wrong materials, tools, or there is something fundamentally incorrect about your wiring process (perhaps you are not sizing things correctly?) that is causing this.
Your wiring should not be 'hot' in a nutshell despite one of the energy losses being emitted in the form of heat unless you have undue resistance or other issues. Your loom is not something you setup to double as a lightbulb filament after all.... - Taz.
Better off with a pegboard made to suit the application. In the event of a fault, this twist crap would be a bin job.
The hardest part of concentric twist wiring is convincing a customer to pay for it.
Haha yes it can be, but if it's something they want it simply costs what it costs in time to have it done. If they are not happy to pay for it, then they have the option to not have it done.
It's great to know where to stand up front either way as people forget that there are good and bad businesses just as there are good and bad customers... - Taz.
@@hpa101 What would you say the time jump would be on something like this? 2x, 3x, 4x? Assuming decent proficiency.
Well over double noting some people will be faster than others and experience in planning it correctly will play a large roll.
Someone like Joel at RaceSpec would be a person who could tell you off the top of their head as that is their business. We are lucky enough to do it simply because we want to for our projects so we don't need to crunch the numbers and our content is aimed at those in a similar position - Taz.
@@hpa101 It's one of those things that if I can figure out a way to integrate it without burning up too much extra time, I probably will. Say somebody who pays for tefzel gets the twist too maybe. Combine it with premium materials.
@@mr220v not sure you will make enough in the material magin for that amount of extra work to be honest, but you will have to do your own maths.
You also have to factor in opportunity cost of the time spent where you are only charging directly by the hour that you could be taking other jobs and making money off the margins and hours with too instead.
I can't price this out, but I have worked in manufacturing noting what I also said above.
These are things some people struggle with for their entire careers as business owners, along with quoting. It can be challenging but it also wouldn't be as satisfying if it was too easy.
Sorry I couldn't help much - Taz.
Pshshshttt!! You can get everything you need to wire up any race car from an old washing machine.
I'm awaiting your CZcams series 😂 - Taz.
I would buy a knockoff, it is just a copy and way cheaper.
as he said, you get a crimp that fails it could ruin your race. one of those afm8's lasts years with daily use too. don't forget the yearly calibration costs too!
I'll let Toyota know there looms are unreliable
Repair/Workshop manuals are created for a reason ;) - Taz.
Whoy all white?
Less cost
Sounds like a horrid pain in the ass
What the fck did this guy say?
Use the captions if the accent is too hard for you ;) - Taz.
Who are you calling a Spik?
Too much
This is fucking impossible to do with silicone insulation wire
7:50 okay let's be honest... That's snake oil and complete BS. Crimp tool crushes metal around a wire. There's no special way to do that.... Some lesser quality tools may provide a lesser quality crimp, but there's no reason that only ONE tool does the job... I wonder how much DMC pay you 🤔🤔🤔
And this is a common reason why people complain about crimps failing. You do indeed need the correct tooling for your applicable crimp.
There are more options out there than just DMC too, which we don't sell and paid full retail for our own.
I recommend you look up some of the standards for crimping across some wiring industries as you're going to find a united front on this if you're truly interested in learning and don't trust us :) - Taz.
Crimp tooling is highly specialized, and one thing which wasn't mentioned, is that it does wear out over time. In production, we had go/no-go gauges to check our tooling, as well as significant data collection on the robotic crimpers to keep an eye on tooling wear. Granted, at thousands of crimp operations an hour, that's a whole other ball game... but whether you ship a semi trailers of harnesses, or do one-off customs', if you don't have your ducks in a row and keep them in a row, your probability of field failures goes way up. Even with manual tooling, the tool can get dropped or tiny bits of dirt, insulation or wire can get stuck in the wrong spot. At other times, an ogre may get things out of alignment after clearing a jammed tool.... Its not crazy complicated, but unless you keep an eye on the process, sooner of later, it will come back and bite with a vengeance.
@@RonAmundson yes sir, it would take a long time for someone at home to wear out a crimp tool outside of damage through misuse, which is a risk for any tool, however, you should always be checking your work regardless visually and via a tug test etc to make sure you're on point all the time.
We're like a broken recorded with the 'trust but verify' quote, but it's just so good :) - Taz.