Who would like Montreal's surplus dual-mode locomotives?
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
- Montréal's last electrified commuter rail line closed in 2020, so I took a look at other North American systems which might be interested in their electric rolling stock.
Version française: • À qui pourrait-on vend...
0:00 Introduction
1:11 Types of rolling stock
2:06 Opportunities for the ALP45s
3:08 NJ Transit
4:13 CT Rail
5:11 MBTA
6:52 RTD
8:12 Caltrain
8:47 Conclusions - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Running diesel trains under wires is an unjustified waste of fuel. Finally someone understand my thought
As a model railroader, I like the prospect of running my ALP45DP in diesel mode and not have to model overhead wires, but Quebec should step up and electrify some of the other lines like the St Hilarie, Vaudreuil and Mascouche, and St Jerome lines at least partially.
your very right.
Exo should electrify their lines as response to air contamination
They should electrify the all of the Vaudreuil line, the Saint-Jérôme line until De La Concorde, all of the Mascouche line and the Mont-Saint-Hillaire line until Saint-Lambert and buy more ALP45DPs and multilevels at the same time
These can go on Caltrain as Baby Bullet 2.0 electric to San Jose Diesel to Gilroy. NJ Transit has a new order of ALP-45DPs 4535 upwards
Metrolinx's CEO has stated a desire for dual mode locomotives for the future Lakeshore East extension
They do make sense for the Bowmanville service, but that won't be built for several years yet. Montreal is probably looking for buyers much sooner than that. If they don't end up finding a buyer, then they could definitely sell them to GO in a few years.
I'm fine with a mix of Dual-Modes and EMUs on the GO network. Though those newer Diesel trains would be a waste since they can continue to operate for decades.
@@mrrobot5963 There's a good second-hand market for diesel locomotives, so it's not a big deal if GO has a bit too many right now
What was the reasoning for investing in these in the first place when they knew that they were loosing the electrified lines?
What? Will the ALP-45DP’s get replaced?
one of the reasons commuter roads like MBTA use diesel under wires is that Amtrak usually owns the tracks and charges very expensive rates for electricity, so in order to mitigate costs, the commuter roads just pay for access and run diesel unless it's required like in Penn Station
Amtrak and commuter railways need to cooperate to get good service
Tsk, 30 years old and reached their final destination? Last carriage I was on was nearing its 50th anniversary.
Ugh, I wish the UK would take note of the no diesel in tunnels thing. Birmingham New Street is such an unpleasant station with all the diesel engines idling underground.
Mhmm, I wonder how easy it is to retrofit locomotives for different voltages and frequencies... I guess you might have to replace the whole transformer probably? Oh wait, no "The ABB main transformer has four secondary taps, switchable to supply 1360 V under all electrification supplies." So yeah, I guess you'd just have to switch up which taps the wires are connected to (and probably some software settings).
Guess CT Rail could use the dual-mode locos on the New Haven-Springfield line, and slowly electrify it. So they could already use the electrified bits as soon as they become functional, without any rush to do the whole line in one go. ...if they wanted to electrify lol.
VIA Rail Canada's oldest coaches have been in service for 75 years (see link below), so I know trains can certainly last past 30 years. I just didn't think there were any 25kV systems which would be interested in old second-hand EMU's right now. MBTA might be looking for new electric trains once they finish electrifying the missing bits of the Providence Line, but the 120 km/h top speed of Montreal's MR-90's would be restrictive on that line, which has a speed limit of 200 km/h. They are better suited for local services such as the Deux-Montagnes line rather than regional services like the Providence line. They would have been worked nicely for the Shore Line East, but CT Rail has already ordered new M8 EMUs for that. Similarly, CalTrain has already ordered enough Stadler KISS EMUs to replace all of the trains within the elctrified segment, and RTD's system is fully equipped with new Hyundai-Rotem Silverliner Vs.
corpo.viarail.ca/en/projects-infrastructure/train-fleet/coach-car-units-8100-8147
The Hartford Line is a perfect candidate for electrification, since Amtrak intercity trains along that route currently need to change locomotives at New Haven, which is very time-consuming. Extending the electric lines up to Springfield would allow the New York - Springfield services to run direct with electric locomotives. And for the trains continuing beyond Springfield, switching locomotives at Springfield would be way faster than at New Haven. Trains currently need to do a three-point turn at Springfield, but if they stuck the diesel locomotive on the opposite end from where the electric locomotive is removed, they could drive straight out. Plus it is faster to stick the new locomotive on the opposite end, since it can happen simultaneously, unlike at New Haven where the diesel locomotive needs to wait for the electric locomotive to clear the track before it can approach the train. Dual-Mode locomotives would be perfect for Amtrak in the interim, but I didn't include Amtrak in the video since the electrified portion of the New York - Springfield route uses 12 kV 25 Hz and 12 kV 60 Hz, not 25 kV 60 Hz.
So again we're back to the question of how easy it would be to retrofit them to support different voltages, to which I don't know the answer.
I also considered suggesting them for the Hartford Line for the exact reasons you stated, but I decided not to, based on the timelines. Montréal would ideally sell its locomotives right now, but even if Amtrak (which owns the CT Rail lines) started electrifying the Hartford Line right away, it would be years before they would actually be useful for CT Rail services.
Already 75 years old and "these cars can travel our railways for at least another quarter century." Nice! That's the kind of long-lasting engineering and maintenance I love to see :D
But yes, there's certainly more restrictions to usage than just age.
@@OntarioTrafficMan this reminds that CalTrain should order ALP45DPs for the Electrification Section and the Non Electrification Section
I heard MBTA already had different plans for Electric Locomotives. Back in 2019, their operator, Keolis, bought a handful of Amtrak AEM-7s, and apparently, they will give them extensive overhauls and use them for the exact purposes you mentioned in this video.
Great to hear! They could use ALP-45DPs on the Franklin and Needham lines, while the Providence/Stoughton line uses AEM-7s.
The toasters? They were so unreliable, that even SEPTA couldn’t run them twice a day and junked them. Perfect for the T! 🤣
@@chrispontani6059 Yeah they'd need one heck of an overhaul to actually run reliably...
I have heard of them! I was guessing that those are what the AEM-7s will be used for!
For pictures: rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5232872 and rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=134203
For the numbers: on-track-on-line.com/amtkrinf-amtrakbythenumbers.shtml#electrics (look at AEM-7 numbers)
Is there a timeline for when they'll be tested/put into service?
Completely agree with you on that the MBTA must electrify- currently, the commuter rail has some of the most horrendous rolling stock in the entirety of North America. The best option the for the MBTA at this point, however, would be to completely overhaul and transition to a regional rail model with completely new EMU rolling stock in the long run
Yes I agree that the goal should be EMUs in the long run, but dual-mode locomotives can be useful during the transition period for services along routes which are only partly electrified.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Indeed, even though MBTA should’ve done that 30 years ago 😂. I’ve read a few reports regarding how to MBTA wants to move forward this decade, and they seem promising. I truly hope that a new regional rail agency or commission is made once the MBTA transitions to regional service. Massachusetts is fortunate enough to have advocacy groups and politicians who are heavily pushing for such a S-Bahn style system in New England (probably the only area of the US where such a push exists lol)
Very interesting video! After watching this video, I feel these locomotives would be best used on Caltrain since they can be used for electric service from SJ to SF, as well as keeping the existing bleeps in service for operations on diesel routes. MBTA would be a close second since they're interchangeable between diesel and electric routes.
Realllly hope the T gets these locos. I want to see the state actually get good train service. Boston is like most other north east cities. The highways and streets are always congested, and the one complaint I constantly get about why people don’t take the trains are, their isn’t enough parking at all the stations, and trains just don’t run frequently enough. All of which I can agree on. The current proposal would get trains running every 15 minutes, and increasing parking, and transit oriented development. While good all on paper, getting it done without fucking up with politics or public disinterest will be key.
If a problem with your train system is that there isn't enough car parking then there's something seriously wrong with the development patterns, transit service and/or bicycle infrastructure around the stations...
Heck, around some of the stations, there might not even be sidewalks once you get a block or four away, and this can be at the same station with some actually decent(for America) bike infrastructure. MA is a weird place
Yay! The proper pronunciation of the word kilometres!
Hot take:
Kilo-metre: 1000 metres
Kil-ometer: device that measures kills
@@OntarioTrafficMan 🤩
I could see Montreal ordering Siemens Charger locomotives to replace their entire locomotive fleet. (not just replacing the ALP-45DPs, but also replacing the EMD F59PH and F59PHI locomotives as well)
no they will not order the SC-44 to replace their F59PH and PHI and maybe they will order BL36PH and they will never replace their F59PH and PHI
@@RailfanVal Well what do ya know! They actually ordered Siemens Chargers!
Ethan's prediction has come true!
Excellent video!
Really interesting idea for a video!
I want all the trains to be electric. 😢
it really depends how used a railway line will be
That's literally impossible, some railways have not the condition to get overhead wires or third rail on the side of the track, because of structural problems of the line (for example near where I live there is a single-track mountain line that is impossible to electrified because of its old tunnels) and amount of traffic; remember that electrified a corridor is a relevant cost and is suitable only if you have a good amount of passenger traffic (for freight is another story...even i think that if BNSF wants to electrifying some of its most important routes they can get some advantages...but is only my opinion).
There are more solutions, because the problem is the pollution generated by the diesel combustion: on another railway line near where I live, where is impossible to electrifying, studies are on the way to convert trains from diesel - haul to hydrogen - haul. On another line in Germany trains are totally electric, on non - electrified section they run on lithium batteries (but, you know, getting lithium has ethical and environmental problems)
On another line in Australia, there is a train running on electric solar power, but is only for a short distance and the train is more touristic than commuter service
Either NJ Transit or MARC ( Maryland Area Rail Commuter) for their electrified Penn Line could use those to replace their aging HHP-8 Locomotives
There are plans to run MARC Penn line trains through Union and across an expanded Long Bridge into VA, which would not be electrified track, so this seems like a perfect use case
If anything NJT could really use them. Then again they have 29 locomotives left on the option order so maybe not, but it would be good to replace the remaining aging fleet.
hmm. tbh, I think that MBTA could put the Duel-Mode locomotives to good use, since their ARMY of F40ph's are beginning to look their age while some of them are being reused/refurbished (basically the Commuter Rail with a new paint scheme). If the MBTA actually decides to buy the Montreal Surplus Duel-Mode locomotives, I feel like they're gonna have to sell and or scrap some of the f40ph's they don't use anymore just to make room for the Duel-Mode locomotives.
The ALP45s perform worse than MBTA's F40s. It would be stupid to buy crap unreliable locomotives.
@@danielchou5895 doesn't mean there's room for improvements to the locomotives. The MBTA should at least lease 2 of the ALP45 and test 1 on the Electrified Commuter Rail lines (from South Station to Providence) and 1 for the normal/Non-Electric Commuter Rail routes (from North Station to Salem).
@@captainfordo3978 Lol NJT already has a bad experience with the ALPs. Every railroad knows how terrible they are. No railroad is going to buy unreliable locomotives that perform worse than older locomotives. Plus no good dual-mode locomotive has ever been made for American Rail. All dual-modes have been unreliable. The reason why railroads use them is that they don't have another option. Finally, MBTA is actually paying more to run electric locomotives compared to diesel ones.
@@danielchou5895 ok. I see ur point. I feel like if the ALP45 were HEAVILY modified to modern standards and didn't cause the problems they have, I think more railroad companies would be ok with buying them. Or just simply build a new one from scratch & use spare parts from the existing ones.
Imagine how cursed the ALP45-DP's would look under MBTA livery. It would be like staring at a Barney-fied HSP46.
I love this comment😂😂😂.
@@AlexCab_49 I'm here all day.
If they can be retrofitted for NYP, I'd contend that Amtrak might do well to get in the bidding and cut locomotive change time for some of the corridor trains. Probably doesn't make sense to do that with the long-distance routes going south because the diesel mode is relatively inefficient, but it might make sense to use them on trains like the Vermonter or Springfield Regionals that change in New Haven or the Virginia service trains going to Norfolk and Lynchburg.
I didn't include Amtrak because to run from Springfield to Penn Station they'd 12 kV 60 Hz _and_ 12 kV 25 Hz, neither of which is the locomotives' current voltage. But you're absolutely right, if it is easy to retrofit them, then the Springfield and Virginia Northeast Regional services would be a perfect fit.
They ALP-45s for NJT can run on 25Hz power. I'd suspect the Montreal ones could do it too, with a small (none?) retrofit. CT and the MBTA don't care about running electrics, or they'd be doing it already.
@@philipnasadowski1060 CT Rail is now running electric trains on the Shore Line East.
@@OntarioTrafficMan As part of the Biden plan, Amtrak announced plans to buy new equipment to replace Amfleet I cars and many locos, and this plan includes buying new dual model locos. I have to assume that they have gone to Siemens to ask then to bid on such. Remember that when VIA made a request for bids, one of the parameters was ability to have dual mode locos in future, and VIA chose Siemens.
And if Siemens starts to produce dual mode locos, this could change the market place a lot and I suspect many regional railways wait to see when Siemens announces it.
I find this quite interesting! From what I could tell, RTM will continue to use the ALP-45DPs as plain up diesel locomotives. However, if RTM wants to swap out the dual-mode locomotives for plain up diesel locomotives, I would be interested in seeing one of these railroads acquire them!
When I was researching for this video I did find a source from the RTM saying they were going to try to sell them, but I can't seem to find that source right now
@@OntarioTrafficMan I didn't know that! Makes sense, since the ALP-45DP in diesel mode is only half the locomotive, while RTM would have no need for the electric mode.
Seems like Montreal is just using there ALP45DPs as diesel locomotives. Any news if they will be sent where their pantographs will actually get to stretch their arms?
marc would be a good fit even tho it has chargers it could use other train like the ALP 45s
City hall had wanted electric transit by 2025, and they'd planned on soon afterwards requiring train lines around the valley to become electrified.
MBTA is hoping to use Amtrak’s catenary on the Providence Line in the near future. They also want to electrify the Stoughton branch and continue with it all the way along the track extensions to New Bedford and Fall River.
I would like to see the line from Windsor Station to Vaudreuil electrified and the ALP45s used on that line. I still would have liked to see a Stadler KISS type transit used on the Deux Montagnes line and have it extended towards Ottawa.
In some ways, it would make sense to electrify the tracks from Park Station to St-Jerome
We do have the ALP-45DP here in New Jersey
The Railroad that should get Montreal’s ALP 45s is The MBTA to replace their peace of Junk HSP 46s
How about the Marc out in Maryland
Another question: now that the mount-royal section is no longer on the commuter rail, does that mean the bothersome multi-level coaches could also be sent somewhere else?
No the Multilevel coaches also exist because they can serve both high-level and low-level platforms. Several Exo stations on the CN portion of the network have high-level platforms so BiLevel coaches cannot be used.
If EXO would have had control over the Vaudreuil line, a simple branch to Dorval airport would have been possible and eventually Windsor converted to an underground terminal which could have been extended past downtown, but as long as it remains controlled by CP Rail, this will be hard to accomplish. In Europe, the rails are owned by a national authority and all railroads can have access. Such a situation would have made Montreal's system a lot better.
Truthfully, these would make the most sense in operation with CalTrain! They would be the only ones that would be able to fully utilize the dual mode capabilities of the units! Not only that, but they actually would be the only one who'd need the pulling capabilities for the multilevel fleet! A equipment swap of the MP36 fleet plus monetary compensation would be a fair trade!
A second possibility not even considered would be selling these to SEPTA for their proposed extensions to Pottstown and Reading making full use of the dual mode capabilities!
Since EXO has chargers on order, these units will no longer be needed!
Interesting points! I think the MBTA would also make full use of the dual-mode capabilities, running electric along the NEC and diesel where the overhead lines are not yet complete.
I didn't include SEPTA because they don't use the same 25kV 60Hz power system as the Montréal trains and the systems in this video. If I did include systems with different power, I also would have included Amtrak and MARC.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Makes sense! Your comment about the MBTA makes sense as it could get the providence service electrified immediately! Honestly while you're add it why not aquire their former emus and put them on short turns!
What about marc in Maryland, they could benefit from dual modes
MARC doesn't use 25kV AC.
Liked your video, however, I noticed that you didn't include either MARC nor VRE as possible recipients for AMT's dual-mode locomotives. Like MBTA, both commuter railroads use diesel train sets under wires. But, if Amtrak officials would change the way they interact with commuter rail operators in sharing the cost of using electricity along the NEC, perhaps less fossil fuels would be needed along the Corridor.
I only included the systems which operate using the 25 kV 60 Hz electrification which the locomotives support. MARC/VRE operate under 12 kV 25 Hz. If I had made a larger video which also included 12 kV systems (Amtrak, SEPTA, MARC, VRE) I probably would have suggested that Amtrak was the best option of those four, for the Virginia and Springfield Northeast Regional services. With the dedicated passenger track being built south of DC, it is possible that VRE could electrify enough of its network for Dual-Mode locomotives to be worthwhile, but that would be a decade in the future, whereas these locomotives are available _right now_.
MARC doesn't have much need for them since the Penn line is already fully electrified and the other lines are not electrified at all. What they (and the other agencies) really need is indeed a better agreement from Amtrak for the use of the overhead wires. From what I've heard, this is the main reason that the MBTA doesn't use electric trains. It's ridiculous that a government agency (Amtrak) is standing in the way of urban air quality improvements and train performance improvements.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Thank you for the information. Sorry that it took me this long to respond back to you.
It's rather ironic that you mentioned in your last sentence how a government agency ( Amtrak ) could stand in the way of urban air quality improvements and train performance improvements, whereas that same agency is solely dependent on yearly funding and has been at the mercy of a disfunctional US Congress until now.
What about Metra
@@maas1208 Greetings there, I saw your message the other day and I came across a video regarding Metra on another CZcamsr's page. It's entitled "Metra Exemplifies Everything Wrong with American Passenger Rail". I hope this is the right link. czcams.com/video/H2EWqoiLKHU/video.html.
If no one wants Exo's ALP45DPs. Exo has only one option left: continue running the ALP45DPs in diesel mode no matter how much people hate it.
I did wrote a to MTA Long Island Rail Road to electricify its main lines with an overhead catenary system for the Bombardier MR-90s along with a new fleet to replace the DE30ACs and DM30ACs Dual Mode Locomotives along with supplementing the M7s and M9s.
25kV AC overhead doesn't have enough advantage over the LIRR's existing 750V DC third rail system to justify the enormous expense of changing it.
Why do they have 2 sets of horns
Is it economic to ship locomotives overseas? In Germany we would have dozens of lines where the lines are electric around the city and non-electric farther out (or on branch lines) where dual mode locomotives would be great. We don't do 60hz though.
It does seem to be economic to ship them overseas, considering they were built in Kassel, Germany to begin with. The photo at 3:12 was taken there, which is why you have NJT and AMT locomotives in the same place.
Ottawa's original fleet of Bombardier Talent DMUs was also bought from Deutsche Bahn, and the interior even had some German information signs while running in Canada.
I suspect the bigger challenge would be certification, since the EU has different requirements for elements such as lights, horns, signalling, etc. It is probably possible to modify them to match European standards, but the more changes are needed, the less affordable the locomotives become.
Considering that locomotive-hauled trains are on the way out in Germany, and that many future service plans include battery/bi-mode multiple units, I don't think the extensive modifications that would be required to make the ALP-45DPs work in Germany are justifiable. There is also the Vectron Dual-Mode, which can do the same job from the factory.
@@OntarioTrafficMan That's true. The headlight clusters would need to be rearranged, the horns probably need to be exchanged, buffers and chain couplings need to be fitted, the voltage system needs to be switched to 15kV AC (for Germany) and the cab needs to be modified for German/other European safety systems. The biggest problem perhaps is the fact that the locomotives only have one cab, something completely foreign in Europe outside Italy (and previously Britain). Therefore our infrastructure isn't set up to deal with turning these locomotives around, meaning they would have to be semi-permanently coupled to their coaching stock, making them no better than multiple units.
@@bahnspotterEU Commuter locomotives generally don't need to be to be turned around in North America because they are coupled to a trainset which includes a cab at the opposite end. The length of the train remains constant throughout the day.
The advantage compared to multiple units is that they have a lower operating/maintenance cost for services which don't stop and start very often.
Ontario Traffic Man I get that‘s it‘s the norm in North America, but if these were to be shipped to Europe, their single cab would make them very unusual and therefore probably impractical for anyone to operate. That‘s all I wanted to say.
it might be possible that MARC needed dual mode locomotives
True
That would work if most of their lines ran like the electrified one. A slightly larger fleet of electrics would be perfect for the Penn Line, since it's all electrified, and is actually used everyday in both directions unlike the other two. But dual-modes could work as a stopgap
Metra: "we'll take em!"
EXO: "these are the dual-mode ones"
Metra: "...........you don't have any 40-year-old EMDs that barely run lying around?"
Yeah, there's not a lot of love for the ALP-45DPs...
@@OntarioTrafficMan Metra would probably modify the locomotives to retrofit EMD Prime movers because Metra refuses to use any other Prime mover that aren't EMD
The ALP45DP doesn’t need to be retrofitted to run on 12KV. Their transformers have tap changers which allows for them to switch on the fly. Parts of NJ Transit’s system has 12kV other parts have 25kV. When navigating a phase gap to switch, they do it automatically. I’m sure the AMT ones can do this just fine too😅
The wikipedia article suggests that the NJT version supports 12kV and 25kV but the AMT version only supports 25kV. But yeah, clearly it is possible for them to run on both voltages, it's just a question of how much equipment the AMT version is actually missing.
You mentioned that a railway was converted to lightrail. Netherlands converted a railway to lightrail. The project took way longer than intended (various years), significantly over budget and was finished around the time that the pandemic closed loads of things down. I usually prefer lightrail but I'm doubting the plans to switch things from one to the other. Netherlands has a few similar plans.
The Réseau Express Métropolitain is a metro network, not a light rail network. The lines are fully grade-separated and the trains are driverless.
I am familiar with the Hoekse Lijn, in fact I made a video about it last year. To be honest, the original schedule for construction seemed exceedingly optimistic, so it's not surprising that they discovered many extra things they needed to do before they could reopen the line.
Have a look at Karlsruhe (germany). They use the surrounding railway tracks (1435mm) in the country and have the same rails in the city center where it feels pretty much like light rail.
NJ transit is the biggest user of the ALP-45DP. dual-mode loco.
I wish WCE could have them, but we’re not showing any goals of electrification here in BC…
If EXO sells the ALP45s, NJ Transit would be the ideal candidate as they already have a fleet of this type of machine
Electrify the current Candiac line, use dual modes to Saint Jean-Sur-Richeleau, or maybe even Rouses Point😬
MBTA could definivetly use these on their Providence/Stoughton Line. They are planning to make that service electric and the ALP-45DP’s could replace the F40PH’s as well, as they can operate in diesel mode as well.
PS: Just watched and MBTA’s F40PH’s are getting rebuilt so no need for replacing the F40PH, but their GP40MC’s were built between 1973 and 1975 so they are now 47 years old and would definivetly need replacement.
PS 2: Saw that the GP40PHMC is also getting rebuilt and would not really need replacement either. But MBTA could still use the ALP-45DP as they could operate in electric mode on the Providence/Stoughton Line and on diesel mode on the other lines.
from the Pennsylvania Railroad the ALP 45 can be use for it
8:32 Recently (and possibly after this video came out), Caltrain postponed electric service to 2024.
Speaking of Caltrain, I believe I know how they would use dual mode locomotives if they get them. They plan to electrify the track from San Francisco to Tamien, while keeping their MP36 locomotives for service to Gilroy. If they open the underground Salesforce/Transbay Transit Center before electrifying to Gilroy, or start service to Salinas before electrifying it, they could use the Dual-Mode locomotives to provide a one-seat ride from SF to Gilroy/Salinas. Otherwise, they'd need people to transfer at Diridon, Tamien or Gilroy for non-electric service
I could see that! Maybe Caltrain should consider it!
@@SleepTrain456 though I was thinking today. Caltrain is buying single-mode EMUs for electric service, so it seems unlikely they would even be interested in dual-mode. Unless they need to go from Transbay Terminal (subcity tunnel, no diesel allowed) to somewhere without electrification
@@doctordothraki4378 Yeah I don't really see Caltrain going dual-mode either, considering the Gilroy trains generally run limited-stop from San Jose to San Francisco anyway. So the better acceleration of electric trains doesn't make as much difference. For now I think the most promising customers would be MBTA, NJ Transit and Amtrak, in that order.
One thing to consider on the line south to Salinas, Caltrain only owns the tracks as far as Tamien. UP owns the tracks south of there, and might not want overhead wires interfering with double stack intermodal.
@@doctordothraki4378 don’t forget that CalTrain has a non Electrification Section
ALP45DP Goes on the Gladstone branch M&E line NEC NJCL RVL PVL ML MBL
ACL
MOBO
What about MARC?
MARC only uses 12kV so it wasn't included in this video about 25kV systems. I don't see much use for dual-mode locomotives for MARC anyway since the Penn line is already fully electrified, and the other lines are not at all electrified. If I did include 12kV systems, I would have suggested Amtrak, because dual-mode locomotives would be very useful for the Northeast Regional services which continue onto non-electrified lines in Virginia or Connecticut.
ALP45s are often seen on the Vaudreuil line and as someone who lives near station, I appreciate how much quieter rthey are. So I don't necessarily want to see them go.
both the bi-levels and the ALP45 purchased by EXO were a joint purchase with NJ Transit (with NJ Transit being the one placing order with (RIP) Bombardier. So I would assume the ALP45s that EXO got are perfectyly compatible with the NJ Transit ones since it wouldn't make sense for AdTranz (aka Bombardier) in germany (where the locos originated) to create 2 varianst.
For the bi-levels, the cars are nearly identicals, except for all the stickers/signs, and EXO not ordering the retractable platform for vestibule doors. For NJ Transit, these vestibule doors are usable on both high level and low level platforms. On EXO, you see the metal plate that would otyerwise contain the mechanism for it and a black space on the control panel where those platforms would be operated. A lot easier to not install something vs creating a different version of power converter.
Another potential customer you forgot is some little outfit called Metrolinx. Getting bi-mode locos right away would allow them to begin using electrified segments before the whole system is electrified. I know that proud Toronto would have to swallow its pride to accept send hand equipment from Montréal, but since those would be nearly free and available real soon, it would accelerate electrification and allow trains to be electric on portions of a line before line is fully electrified. Or electrify Oshawa-Union and have train continue on diesel to Aldershot. And when it does get electrified to Aldershot, those bi=modes can provide single loco service from Union to Hamilton and Niagara falls instead of running diesels all the way, or swiotching locos at Aldershot.
EXO recebtly placed an order for Siemens diesel-only locos, a very retrograde move. So they will be able to give duel mode locos soon.
Note that Caltrain got some old AMTRAK AEM-7s for free after Amtrak retired them and using these locos to test the electrification.
On the Denver side: electrification of a BNSF line requires building a new separate track, upgrading bridges for separate tracks etc because freight railways are religiously set on running long slow trains full of cdouble stacked containers instead of faster trains with single stacked containers on electrified railway. (and when you look at gap between double stacked containers vs when single stacked, the double stacked trains are not half the length).
I didn't forget about Metrolinx, it just wasn't relevant at the time I made the video. The RTM was trying to sell the locomotives then and GO wouldn't have any electric wires to use them for a decade. Now that a year has passed and apparently no American companies have offered to buy them, GO may be a good candidate to buy them in a few years, to assist with testing the electric infrastructure and accelerate the rollout of electric traction.
The AEM-7s were free because they were at their end of life. The ALP45s are still decades from end of life so GO will certainly need to pay for them.
Regarding Denver, the proposal I'm quoting is not for any electric infrastructure, it is just for 3 diesel trains per day.
@@OntarioTrafficMan BTW, the smart thing to do would be for EXO to electrify "its" tracks (pax only, no CP traffic) between the Lucien L'allier shelter and Montréal West and likely from Park Ave to St-Jérome as it is extremely unlikely there are double stacked containers travelling there. And if they re-electrify Gare Centrale (25kv electrification removed by CDPQ so it could take the space for its own transformers), then trains on platforms could at least idle on electric and pull out of station on electric. In a climate change ere, it would be stupid to get rid of these locos, and ver saw that EXO/ARTM allowed CDPQ to wreck central station and the tunnel forever.
BTW the MR90s were introduced in November 1995, and were stll in good shape.
Something else: when REM was launched, I asked and they specifically said that this woudl not be a railway/train because they did not want to abide by old 1950s railway rules and railway unions. This is why they chose to demolish 25kv overhead built from scratch in 1995 and rebuild with "metro" voltages and refuse to share tunnel. They want to remain unregulated like other metros.
The ALP45's the blue one is a beautiful train 😍✨💙✨🚄✨💙✨
I wish Metrolink would use it but the train platforms are shorter and meant for bi-level cars so single level would make the trains longer and the platforms would have to be made longer and thus cost more money. So Caltrain should use it as it is the most heavily used commuter rail system west of the Mississippi.
I Want The MR-90s Back In Service!
I think their are 2 real contenders to buy these ALP-45. MBTA, obviously, well they are planning to electrified their line almost *completely and might be possibleto buy a ACS-64, Stadler Kiss electric, or maybe AEM-7. And GO transit might buy these ALP- 45 when there electrified lines have completed. When in service when some lines but not whole line electrified, so their is still a lines that are not electrified if their still a freight right of way, so thats got to be possible that GO tansit would buy these Dual Locomotives from Exo Commuter rail.
Now it appears that Exo is buying new Chargers from Siemens, that will replace Exo's older F59PH diesel locos. I think the ALP-45DPs will stay on Exo at this point, and just run alongside the Chargers.
Denver’s RTD would be a big no on this one
Yeah that's what I said in the video
what about SEPTA
SEPTA doesn't use 25kV AC.
Least likely, the Exo ALP-45s will be running today, and re-use electric power when Côte-de-Liesse opens in 2023, as there will be electric wires.
Electric wires from where to where? I believe they already removed the wires between Côte-de-Liesse and Ahunstic.
Not us
Our Wabtec Motive Power 40 Locomotives are 3 times as fast as these due to the aerodynamics and stronger engines
SEPTA commuter rail network is electric fide bringing back Diesel Service is great SEPTA can be a top bitter for the Alp 45
What about Metra
Metra doesn't use 25kV 60Hz power.
@@OntarioTrafficMan What about South Shore
@@maas1208 Also no.
@@OntarioTrafficMan will you ever do a video on Metra
@@maas1208 no.
Maybe we can convince ON Gov to electrify the ONTC lines (this is not a serious suggestion but I am serious about wanting it)
That's a loooooot of kilometres to electrify for not very many trains which run of them... I'd start by electrifying the O-Train Trillium line long before I start thinking of the ONTC.
@@OntarioTrafficMan Honestly at this point we're just happy for a service restart
You forgot to list MARC
No I didn't. It doesn't use 25 kV 60 Hz
The Bombardier MR-90 will sent to NJ transit MBTA Caltrain and CT rail
it's plan to restore Diesel Service
Amtrak is not entirely innocent to the pollution at Back Bay. It operates one daily train, the Lake Shore Limited, by diesel power.
My understanding is that the air quality issues are in the Northeast Corridor portion of the station, not the Framingham/Worcester portion used by the Lake Shore Limited.
It is obvious that Metrolinx should buy them...for future use. Much cheaper than buying new..
Just put the locos on ebay.
Have we forgotten Marc and SEPTA...
No. Those systems do not use 25kV 60Hz AC power, which is the topic of this video.
We gotta preserve a mr 90 as i spotted em and they got no pantographs
Oh no! Yes we've gotta preserve at least a pair of those, they're quite significant for Canadian railway history. I would hope at least ExpoRail in St. Constant would get some, and the rest would be sold to someone like the MBTA or NJT
@@OntarioTrafficMan yea pair 400 with 6711 is dream best would be electrify the passenger train track
They’re probably being converted into coaches now. F#CK!!!
@@davidng2336 TABARNAK!
@@davidng2336 btw how do you know?
MARC would be another one here
No, MARC doesn't use 25kV AC
Septa should use them
Septa is all electric so it’s pointless. Plus they ordered ACS-64s.
@@supermarionathan1426 Septa became all electric in the early 80s by cutting all diesel operations instead of electrifying further. The ALP-45s could be used to reintroduce longer distance services.
Maybe Amtrak to be mused in the east
NJT already has it
Yes... Did you even watch the video? He said himself that it can be sold to NJT that already has the existing fleet, but because AMT's ALP45-DP's only supported one type of power, you can rarely run them on NJT - meaning you'd be running them anyways on diesel under overhead wires, and to support all overhead wires you'd need to convert all the AMT ALP45-DP's to support it which is very costly and not worth for a fleet about half way through its life.
@@radanju3 I probably mis understood
@@radanju3 Well I didn't say it was too expensive to retrofit them to run on both of NJT's power systems, I just said I didn't know how expensive it would be. It's possible that they just need to replace a couple parts in which case it would be quite affordable to convert them to NJT specs.
The EMUs could EASILY go to MARC or SEPTA.
Neither MARC nor SEPTA use 25kV power
@@OntarioTrafficMan Ahhh, I can tell.
It might be possible to refurb the MR90s to allow for 12kv, but for MARC they'd be limited to the Penn Line ONLY.
@@OntarioTrafficMan what using those EMUs for The Metra Electric district and/or The South Shore line service
@@maas1208 Those don't even use AC power at all, let alone 25kV. Lots of mods would be required, more than value of trains
Ontario Traffic Man - "One of the only fully electric commuter rail networks of the United States"
Septa - "Do I mean nothing to you?"
SEPTA is why I said "one of the only", instead of "the only".
"30 years old" *laughs at London Underground Bakerloo line 1972 stock*
3:27
He forgot to highlight the North Jersey Coast, NEC line, Main/Bergen County, and PVL lines.
3:19 "Midtown Direct services which connect non-electrified lines to New York Penn Station"
North Jersey Coast and NEC line services to Penn Station are fully electrified. (The non-electrified portion of the line beyond Long Branch is operated by a separate diesel shuttle train, which does not operate to Penn Station.)
The Main/Bergen and Pascack Valley lines do not operate to Penn Station.
This was an interesting video but you did an awkward pause between every sentence
I added those pauses because otherwise the rate of information is overwhelming, and people reading the captions can't keep up.
Even on 2x speed, the pauses between the sentences are just toooooo long.
hey Ontario traffic man why you dont like my comment do you dislike my comments？
No railroad would buy these ALP45DPs. These locomotives perform like crap. They always have problems. Crews on NJT hate the ALP45s. The ALP45 is rated as one of the worst locomotives in NJT. It would be stupid for any railroad to buy crap locomotives. It's like buying junk. All these suggestions are unrealistic.