I would argue, if you want to be the best you could surround yourself with the best... in the ideal world. Short of that, we make the best of our education by taking advantage of every learning opportunity we can get and having the mindset that our profession is in our hands. We may not have done so well on standardized tests, but there are other ways we can prove ourselves. Often, this could be the fuel that propels us to success.
Yes but what "best" do you want? The best research? The best patient care? The best medical context? The best patient simulations? The best clinical work? There is no school that has all of these things at the same time, none. For example the best at research are "magnet status" so their patient care suffers because they're more interested in that status than they are employing good every-day care workers and instead use contractors, so when you do your clinicals you're working with nurses and techs who aren't really being invested in, thus they aren't invested as much. You then learn medicine from this context. If you're really into research this is fine! Less patient care stuff and more clinical trials and research. People who have been buried in books at Ivy league schools generally aren't going to be as empathetic, and are going to be far more competitive (that's from research), so going to high-stat schools are going to yield those kinds of peers, which may be right up your alley! I would say, figure out what you want medicine to do for you first, then pick a school or schools that fit with what you want to get out of medicine. The "best" is subjective. Surround yourself with the best for you.
Hey man, nice video. I also had to do an MSBS program at Rocky Vista University and am currently in the COM in colorado. I found the tier list and their criteria for the list very interesting. To my knowledge when it comes to board scores, and this is not me saying RVU is better than other medical schools, RVU has the highest COMLEX average in the nation, and last year we had 100% match into residency. I'll be transparent and say idk where we stand with the USMLE, but the residency match is still impressive. And for those who want to know, only 33 out of 160+ went into family medicine (not that it's a bad thing, I just know M.Ds are the ones to typically get the more competitive specialties), the rest went into a specialty. My long drawn point being, am confused as to why they chose those criteria to make their tiers and not residency match or board scores. Board scores, audition rotations, and LOR will make or break you anyway. Anyone in med school knows M1 and M2 grades are at the bottom of residency programs list of importance lol anyway, maybe you can make a video on that topic? I've tried doing my own research out of curiosity and haven't found much on other schools board scores. Good luck with your MSBS program from one past MSBSer to another.
I believe they made the tiers based on how difficult or easy it would to be accepted into those schools. I highly doubt they took into consideration COMLEX scores or matching rates. I do know KCU achieved a 100% match rate as well. Overall DO schools have a higher match rate then MD schools. It’s good to hear from a fellow masters student. I’m glad you did it and made it to Med school. Rocky vista looks like an awesome school. Did you prefer the Colorado campus over the Utah one??
Hi! I'm a pre med currently applying to med school. What is your honest opinion about Rocky Vista University? What is your favorite and least favorite thing about the school? In your opinion, how is the education quality and how well does it prepare you for residencies( is it hard to get into clinical rotations? Did you receive any help/support while applying to residencies? I'm sorry for the barrage of questions. I truly hope you can give me an honest answer (instead of what the school tells you to say or just giving me the link to the school website). I'm feeling pretty lost in the application process. Every school claims to have 1. the most advanced sim lab 2. opportunities to serve the community 3. the most diverse student population. Aside from board exam scores, I don't really know what qualifies a good school and one that doesn't care about its students' success. Any answer is appreciated. Thanks!
DMU has some of the highest average entrance stats of DO programs and it is the second oldest DO program in existence (after AT Still but older than PCOM). I fail to see how it is tier 2 by your definitions aside from Des Moines not being a huge city
Hello, I am applying right now and would like to know if URM status changes the playing field on some T1 schools? I am Puerto Rican mainland with a 3.7 (3.6 science) GPA and a 503 (127/123/127/126) MCAT. My CARS score will probably already rule me out of places. I have already applied to D.O. schools of all tiers (mostly T2) but there are three or four Tier 1s that I am crossing my fingers for... :L
Hi Michael, you should make a video on the tiers of allopathic medical school, domestic and international schools. Look at the average GPA and MCAT scores of the lower 1/3 tier ranking of American medical (MD) schools……in the poorer and rural states such as Arkansas, Alabama, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississippi, Puerto Rico, and some schools in central Florida and Michigan. These are just some states. There are others. The average GPA and MCAT scores of these schools is about the same or lower than many DO schools, especially when they are selecting their own in state students…..the requirements are a lot lower. Compare apples to apples Michael.
Can you do a video for Canadian applicants to DO schools, I’m a 2nd year biochemistry student at the university of toronto and I would like to get into USDO/MD med school
I’d consider them lower tiered, only because people are skeptical of new schools. That by no means means they are actually in the lowest tier. You may have a slightly better chance of an interview though especially with lower grades.
What did the adcoms say they look at after mcat/gpa? I’m nontrad, 26yo, California resident with a 3.5cGPA 515Mcat, but the rest of my app isn’t really strong, been thinking of doing a masters just to get better LORs, some shadowing time, more research and clinical volunteering experience. Or should I apply to tier 2/3 schools?
Up to your personal preference Matthew. Do you want to spend a year or more chasing a stronger app or apply now and settle for a less prestigious school? You already have strong stats for MD schools even. Apply broadly and you'll get in somewhere. At the end of the day, if you get in anywhere, you will become a doctor.
I’m not really arguing that it shouldn’t be in Tier 1, but I’m curious regarding any specific reasoning as to why Touro University COM - New York is ranked there. Is it specifically based on MCAT and GPA averages? Or is there another factor in that?
There is definitely room for debate however this is what a Med school admissions committee presented to me. It could be based off location, average gpa, school size, match rate etc. This just gives students a rough idea.
DO school rankings only exist among premed students. Residency directors place all DO students in the same batch unfortunately. So you basically have MDs (which are high, mid, and low),. Then DOs. Doesn't matter if you went to PCOM, Turo, or anywhere else they're all categorized at the same level.
@@ERdoctorMike yeah it's kind of misleading to say tiers/rank. You should have just said easiest or hardest instead since they are all in the same "tier'
Not true. There’s no way Texas residencies are putting TCOM on the same level as those other schools. Same thing with Oklahoma. These are state funded schools as well.
@@Amy-se5ld Sorry this is true. State funded doesn't mean anything since these residency programs aren't state funded it's federal. This is all specialty dependent of course. If you truly want to see yourself google any hospital residency program then select the meet our residents section. There you can see who their residents are and which schools they've gone to. This bias is especially seen in ortho, plastics, derm, or any other competitive field.
Hey Michael! Question for ya. I have a lower science gpa (3.2) and an average cum gpa (3.39). I also have a 519 MCAT. Do you think I’ll get filtered out of tier 1 DO schools because of my gpa even though I have a high Mcat? Thanks
Got into VCOM with a 499. Got rejected from Liberty (where I went to undergrad and masters in biomed), because their new "average" is a 508. What a joke
I'm confused how a ATSU Kirksville is second-tier but ATSU Arizona is first tier? ATSU Kirksville was the first osteopathic school ever so they're not new at all.
@@ERdoctorMike oh sorry, I see what you are saying in terms of admissions and locations amongst other Osteopathic schools. I meant that all DO schools are considered lower tier to MD schools for residency placements by PDs.
DO students are by no means “lower” than MD students. If you are planning on going into medicine, that is something you really need to change your mindset on.
@@ERdoctorMike never said DO students were lower tier, just that the schools are. However, DO students are statistically weaker applicants and seen by most PDs that way. This is apparent in lack of representation of DOs in competitive specialties and residencies. Many take the DO route as a back up route after not gaining admission to MD, many PDs recognize this. With that being said DOs can also become good physicians
A day in the life: czcams.com/video/PGxSDCcheX4/video.html
I would argue, if you want to be the best you could surround yourself with the best... in the ideal world. Short of that, we make the best of our education by taking advantage of every learning opportunity we can get and having the mindset that our profession is in our hands. We may not have done so well on standardized tests, but there are other ways we can prove ourselves. Often, this could be the fuel that propels us to success.
Yes but what "best" do you want? The best research? The best patient care? The best medical context? The best patient simulations? The best clinical work? There is no school that has all of these things at the same time, none. For example the best at research are "magnet status" so their patient care suffers because they're more interested in that status than they are employing good every-day care workers and instead use contractors, so when you do your clinicals you're working with nurses and techs who aren't really being invested in, thus they aren't invested as much. You then learn medicine from this context. If you're really into research this is fine! Less patient care stuff and more clinical trials and research.
People who have been buried in books at Ivy league schools generally aren't going to be as empathetic, and are going to be far more competitive (that's from research), so going to high-stat schools are going to yield those kinds of peers, which may be right up your alley!
I would say, figure out what you want medicine to do for you first, then pick a school or schools that fit with what you want to get out of medicine. The "best" is subjective. Surround yourself with the best for you.
I’m an AZCOM student so that’s kind of cool to find out.
Hey man, nice video. I also had to do an MSBS program at Rocky Vista University and am currently in the COM in colorado. I found the tier list and their criteria for the list very interesting. To my knowledge when it comes to board scores, and this is not me saying RVU is better than other medical schools, RVU has the highest COMLEX average in the nation, and last year we had 100% match into residency. I'll be transparent and say idk where we stand with the USMLE, but the residency match is still impressive. And for those who want to know, only 33 out of 160+ went into family medicine (not that it's a bad thing, I just know M.Ds are the ones to typically get the more competitive specialties), the rest went into a specialty. My long drawn point being, am confused as to why they chose those criteria to make their tiers and not residency match or board scores. Board scores, audition rotations, and LOR will make or break you anyway. Anyone in med school knows M1 and M2 grades are at the bottom of residency programs list of importance lol anyway, maybe you can make a video on that topic? I've tried doing my own research out of curiosity and haven't found much on other schools board scores. Good luck with your MSBS program from one past MSBSer to another.
I believe they made the tiers based on how difficult or easy it would to be accepted into those schools. I highly doubt they took into consideration COMLEX scores or matching rates. I do know KCU achieved a 100% match rate as well. Overall DO schools have a higher match rate then MD schools. It’s good to hear from a fellow masters student. I’m glad you did it and made it to Med school. Rocky vista looks like an awesome school. Did you prefer the Colorado campus over the Utah one??
Hi! I'm a pre med currently applying to med school. What is your honest opinion about Rocky Vista University? What is your favorite and least favorite thing about the school? In your opinion, how is the education quality and how well does it prepare you for residencies( is it hard to get into clinical rotations? Did you receive any help/support while applying to residencies? I'm sorry for the barrage of questions. I truly hope you can give me an honest answer (instead of what the school tells you to say or just giving me the link to the school website).
I'm feeling pretty lost in the application process. Every school claims to have 1. the most advanced sim lab 2. opportunities to serve the community 3. the most diverse student population. Aside from board exam scores, I don't really know what qualifies a good school and one that doesn't care about its students' success. Any answer is appreciated. Thanks!
This is a good video for many people. I wish I had it when I was applying.
so helpful!
So glad you liked it.
Very helpful thanks for the info!
Thanks for the support Brittany!
I think Liberty’s stats are quite a bit higher than what you listed for Tier 3. Might need an update.
DMU has some of the highest average entrance stats of DO programs and it is the second oldest DO program in existence (after AT Still but older than PCOM). I fail to see how it is tier 2 by your definitions aside from Des Moines not being a huge city
Yea, his openings statements about Tier 1 are wack. Fuck, if he can get into med school with that reasoning ability then so can I.
DMU is stacked compared to other DO
@@overcraft1441 they matched someone into ortho surgery at mayo clinic this year
Connections are the key for large schools
ATSU- Kirksville MO is the first D.O. school ever in the world and has been around for 130 years.
That’s true… gotta love the Kirksville crunch!
Hello, I am applying right now and would like to know if URM status changes the playing field on some T1 schools? I am Puerto Rican mainland with a 3.7 (3.6 science) GPA and a 503 (127/123/127/126) MCAT. My CARS score will probably already rule me out of places. I have already applied to D.O. schools of all tiers (mostly T2) but there are three or four Tier 1s that I am crossing my fingers for... :L
I’m not sure
NYITCOM should be in first tier. not Touro. That school is so competitive to get into
Hi Michael, you should make a video on the tiers of allopathic medical school, domestic and international schools. Look at the average GPA and MCAT scores of the lower 1/3 tier ranking of American medical (MD) schools……in the poorer and rural states such as Arkansas, Alabama, Louisiana, West Virginia, Mississippi, Puerto Rico, and some schools in central Florida and Michigan. These are just some states. There are others. The average GPA and MCAT scores of these schools is about the same or lower than many DO schools, especially when they are selecting their own in state students…..the requirements are a lot lower. Compare apples to apples Michael.
Can you do a video for Canadian applicants to DO schools, I’m a 2nd year biochemistry student at the university of toronto and I would like to get into USDO/MD med school
Ya I will do my best to make one
@carlos bond it does.
DMU should be tier 1
When you have a 3.8 gpa but literally can’t get a good mcat score on your practice tests 😭😅
Check out my video on mcat resources
Lmao bro my friend and I graduated with 4.0s and still can't.
hey where should we rank the newer DO schools on the tier list such as Noorda COM?
I’d consider them lower tiered, only because people are skeptical of new schools. That by no means means they are actually in the lowest tier. You may have a slightly better chance of an interview though especially with lower grades.
Hey Micheal, have you heard of the UNTHSC SMP program ?
I haven’t looked into it
If you're ranking this including “big cities” then your diagram is a little off. For example Nova is in Fort Lauderdale (a massive city).
What did the adcoms say they look at after mcat/gpa? I’m nontrad, 26yo, California resident with a 3.5cGPA 515Mcat, but the rest of my app isn’t really strong, been thinking of doing a masters just to get better LORs, some shadowing time, more research and clinical volunteering experience. Or should I apply to tier 2/3 schools?
Shoot me a message on Facebook. Link in description
Up to your personal preference Matthew. Do you want to spend a year or more chasing a stronger app or apply now and settle for a less prestigious school? You already have strong stats for MD schools even. Apply broadly and you'll get in somewhere. At the end of the day, if you get in anywhere, you will become a doctor.
I’m not really arguing that it shouldn’t be in Tier 1, but I’m curious regarding any specific reasoning as to why Touro University COM - New York is ranked there.
Is it specifically based on MCAT and GPA averages? Or is there another factor in that?
There is definitely room for debate however this is what a Med school admissions committee presented to me. It could be based off location, average gpa, school size, match rate etc. This just gives students a rough idea.
Michael Mazur interesting. Thanks!
Actual video and information starts at 3:37
DO school rankings only exist among premed students. Residency directors place all DO students in the same batch unfortunately. So you basically have MDs (which are high, mid, and low),. Then DOs. Doesn't matter if you went to PCOM, Turo, or anywhere else they're all categorized at the same level.
That’s probably true. I think we are just talking about the difficulty in getting into certain schools.
@@ERdoctorMike yeah it's kind of misleading to say tiers/rank. You should have just said easiest or hardest instead since they are all in the same "tier'
Not true. There’s no way Texas residencies are putting TCOM on the same level as those other schools. Same thing with Oklahoma. These are state funded schools as well.
@@Amy-se5ld Sorry this is true. State funded doesn't mean anything since these residency programs aren't state funded it's federal. This is all specialty dependent of course. If you truly want to see yourself google any hospital residency program then select the meet our residents section. There you can see who their residents are and which schools they've gone to. This bias is especially seen in ortho, plastics, derm, or any other competitive field.
Just got accepted to LECOM MMS. Same path as you hopefully.
You got this
Which tier would you say LECOM at Elmira would be?
There are no official tiers for DO schools but I would guess 1 or 2
@@ERdoctorMike maybe consider removing the word tier or rank from your title
@@JB23669 why
Hey Michael! Question for ya. I have a lower science gpa (3.2) and an average cum gpa (3.39). I also have a 519 MCAT. Do you think I’ll get filtered out of tier 1 DO schools because of my gpa even though I have a high Mcat? Thanks
No you’ll be fine. You can get into MD as well with that mcat. I’d apply to both
Got into VCOM with a 499. Got rejected from Liberty (where I went to undergrad and masters in biomed), because their new "average" is a 508. What a joke
That’s awesome congrats!
So what was your gpa before the masters program
S N 2.7 science
I'm confused how a ATSU Kirksville is second-tier but ATSU Arizona is first tier? ATSU Kirksville was the first osteopathic school ever so they're not new at all.
Ya I agree, it probably has to do with the location of the school.
i think western pomona is tier 1, there average mcat is 510
I agree
I also think it’s important to chose a medical school close to family, at least 6 hours driving distance.
That’s definitely ideal but in most cases that’s not possible for a lot of students.
There are tiers of DO schools? I thought DO was it’s own tier?
No “official” tiers. DO is not a tier.
Why is touro better than NYCOM lol
Touro is terrible
Nice
Thank you
Why do MDs make fun of DOs?
I don’t believe they do?
MSU-COM is #1
aren't all DO schools already considered lower tier?
No
@@ERdoctorMike oh sorry, I see what you are saying in terms of admissions and locations amongst other Osteopathic schools. I meant that all DO schools are considered lower tier to MD schools for residency placements by PDs.
DO students are by no means “lower” than MD students. If you are planning on going into medicine, that is something you really need to change your mindset on.
@@ERdoctorMike never said DO students were lower tier, just that the schools are. However, DO students are statistically weaker applicants and seen by most PDs that way. This is apparent in lack of representation of DOs in competitive specialties and residencies.
Many take the DO route as a back up route after not gaining admission to MD, many PDs recognize this.
With that being said DOs can also become good physicians
@@bruceylee8670 I only ever applied DO with perfectly fine stats. Depends on the person. School was closer to home and worked better for me.