My 1st Impression of Dwarf Fortress! Rimworld VS DF and the Main Differences! NEW Player REVIEW!
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- čas přidán 8. 12. 2022
- Im having alot of fun with Dwarf Fortress, But i hear alot of people say its just a new rimworld.... Even me, a new player, knows this is not true
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As for the gofundme comment. I don't believe the developers are actually having health issues, but they did have a health scare and it was after that they realised if something bad did happen, they would probably be bankrupted by it, so that got them into making the steam release.
While scary of a situation for them, I wouldn't doubt that it was also a push in the right direction for them, getting them motivated to work on a more user friendly version that will still be available to the public for free.
yeah , and i welcome the changes UI needs a bit still work and some features i wish would be more staple (like more jobs/icons being there for basic common jobs aside from 12 you get) would be also great
another one from rimworld would be to craft 1 5 10 or custom amount of item , as currently you have to click a lot to make 10 doors , or you put it on repeat , and you forget so you nedup with 100
i know menger lets you do that but thats stocpile order , meaning if i use doors they craft more unless i delete it
and yeah healthcare in US is scary , had friend pay 15k for pet surgery who in Europe would be like 600$ , health stuff in US is expensive for no reason.
A rare win-win situation.
With the amount of time and effort they put on the game it was criminal to have it for free.
The game didnt age well. Both controls and visuals were needed an overhaul, but that ofcourse was a massive undertaking.
All was left is to combine the two, creating the steam release making everyone happy.
I actually think the best way to buy it is through itch. They get a bigger cut, and you get a DRM free AND a Steam key. The Steam version will keep updated though, I don't think the DRM free one will. Also, I think all of the QoL things in the Steam version will end up being in the classic version, as well. I'm not sure what the differences will be.
I believe one of the brothers has pretty expensive medicine. Could be anything tbh, it's America after all.
@@rpglover101 you got Steam key on itch also?
iirc one of the 2 devs has some health issues, no idea about what but i heard the interview with the devs and they talked about that
my all time favourite story from the developmeent of Dorf Fortreess is the 'Great Cat Plague' that happened not long after they introduced cats to the game. The cats - along with everything else in DF, were rather complex and were coded to act like cats, they would hunt, sleep, wash themselves etc. Shortly after release people started to report major cat deaths, colonies where every cat was found dead, with no obvious cause. After looking into it further, it was discovered the ccats had died from alchohol poisoning. This was odd because by nature cats would not drink alchohol in the game, so how did they manage to ingest enough to kill them?
The cause of this cat genocide? - Taverns! Dwarfs would get drunk, slosh mead all over the floor and make a mess while having a great time. Cats would walk through the tavern and in turn get beer/ale/mead on their paws and fur, then later they would clean themselves and get so shit faced they would then die of alchohol poisonning.
It was when Taverns were introduced, not cats. Also they died to alcohol poisoning due to the fact that the cat was actually constantly consuming several liters of wine and liquor at once due to how puddles of liquids work.
@@woahbro665 No, it was due to consuming several litres of ale due to how cleaning themselves worked. Dosage wasn't set up properly in cats, and when they cleaned themselves they consumed an amount what was on their fur; but there was nothing in place to code for small amounts of booze, so they're given the full dose.
I remember this!! Maaaaaan it was hilarious. And incredibly sad!
@@jjmj4971 Now waiting for the update where alcohol evaporates from the puddles and every other container sllowly and surely or in a flaming poof if the price is right and the heat is an urge if not demiurge.
@@woahbro665 actually it was after the cat paw licking was introduced🤓
The greatest thing about Dwarf Fortress is that so much is happening in the rest of the word around you.
A large (world) map in Dwarf Fortress is 90.000 sq kilometers. That's the size of Portugal. Practicality giving you endless possibilities in every world you generate.
The simulation goes so deep that every dwarf has 32 teeth and there eyelids blink and clean the eyes. They had to add blinking/cleaning after adding stains, all dwarfs got blind cause the eyes were stained with blood after fights😂
Useless features that only take up precious performance. I imagine you couldve had another 100 dwarfs without FPS problems if devs didnt added those stupid teeth.
Look up thr "Cat Vomit "Bug" for how far the stain system goes.
@@Altmer353 I don't think teeth are tracked or even initialized until there's something abnormal with them. They aren't listed as a body part unless they're missing.
@@TooFewSecrets All parts of body are still counted. Most of them are not listed in description until something happened to them like internal organs, teeth, etc :-) At least in classic you can use some tools that comes with Lazy newb pack and there you could see every part of body of every creature on your map.
@@TooFewSecrets If anything that's even more impressive, no point on wasting resources on something that isn't needed at the point in time.
Getting raided by goblins because they captured a human who visited your fortress and saw the amazing golden statues in your temple... and they want the shinies.
Its so good, then you can go into the legends mode and look up the human see his family and all the notable things he did before the goblins made him into food.
Dwarf Fortress is a huge world stimulating tool, multi-levelled and deeper than Rimworld.
That's true, but both games are great. Sometimes I prefer the relative simplicity of Rimworld (+mods if too simple) or the ambiance. And Ideologies or Biotech add some interesting features. Both games stoles far too much hours from me!
UI is better in Rimworld. But i fricking love DF
@@kettelbe UI and readibility is better in rimworld but dwarf fortress is conceptually a thousand times more interesting
And not near as polished and the audio is terrible in comparison.
I am so autistic I am more into tool than actual games xd
The way I see it, it's kinda like this: Rimworld uses an AI to create a balanced challenge. It makes sure to keep things fair, with good pacing. It is predictable in that regard. Dwarf Fortress, however, doesnt care. It does... not... CARE. Some things, as you said, might happen because you did things, like the elves getting irked because you cut down trees. But other things? Haha, no... they werent because of you, and they werent because an AI decided on them. They simply happened based purely on the world. Like a Forgotten Beast... that giant spider monster that is inexplicably made out of frozen lizard blood (or some other bonkers material) and covered in spikes didnt show up to your fort because of an action you did or some balanced challenge thing, it came there because it's a big honkin' spider kaiju and it'll go where it darn well pleases. It happened to be somewhere nearby when your fort was created, giving it a chance to find its way over. That it came during the worst goblin siege you've had yet may seem unfair, but DF really, really doesnt care. The simulation dictated it... so it happened anyway.
And of course you could later go into Legends mode and look up the spider and see its own story, which is probably pretty wild and likely ends with it eating your expedition leader and then setting half your fort on fire.
Or maybe the spider shows up and trips and falls into a lake and dissolves without getting a chance to do any damage. That could happen too. DF doesnt care, after all.
The thing about DF is that each individual in your world has an ai with its own preferences, personality and thoughts. In RimWorld a thief will show up to steal your prized artefact because it knows that you’ve been doing too well. In DF a thief will show up to steal your prized artefact because it has a friend that visited the fort and talked to the thief about it and the thief liked the sound of it.
not really. randy random doesn't care either.
@@musikalniyfanboichik Which is why most people prefer it. But afaiu Rimworld doesn't simulate a world and its inhabitants, so Randy will just throw random stuff at you.
I've played rimworld for around 40 hours and DF for like 10 hours, but I'm enjoying DF more tbh. Not just for the deep mechanics, but it also feels less micromanaging than RW. Also the medieval fantasy aesthetic is much more interesting personally.
"feels less micromanaging"
Oh you sweet summer child
@@Maravone He has yet to delve into bee pits and farming.
1k hours rimworld, probably 100 in DF. Rimworld is much less micomanaging. It's more specified orders, yes. But it's much less of an headache to make them do the tasks. Rimworld is MUCH more user friendly when you get the hang of the work tab. I would even debate that DF is deeper. If needless walls of randomly generated and unsorted text is deeper for you, okay. For me it's needlessly complexified, not deeper.
@@Maravonedwarves are fairly self-sufficient if you set things up right. Rim world is ALL about micromanaging. DF is about letting them do their thing and watching the story unfold
I've started playing Dwarf Fortress this week and it took only three hours for this game's complexity and systems to utterly enthrall me.
It just feels alive to an extent that few other games can even try to match. Kenshi is probably the closest runner up in that regard, but I still don't feel like it's anywhere near thr same level as DF.
In short, I love this game and want to kick myself for never having even heard of it until a little while ago
So far DF has a steeper learning curve than RW. RW Taught me to not get married to a play through which makes
tackling DF more fun than frustrating. I'm looking forward to discovering all the little subtleties of DF. Legend and adventure modes are
something I'm looking forward too. As far as which one is better, I really can't say as we all approach things differently and have different levels of patience.
"not get married to a playthrough" is another wording for "Losing is fun" which is basically DF's motto :D
Ah yes, DF's learning curve. You mean "The Wall".
On your 20-something-th fortress you decide to use pumps to draw water up from underground in order to power your machines, freeing up some of your labor force allowing them to inlay precious stones and engrave your civilization's storied history along nearly every surface of your fortress.
Your industrious little marvels create fabulous indoor waterfalls to lift their spirits as well as harness the same element to create inescapable death traps sprung, and reset, from behind impenetrable walls keeping your settlers safe from the trauma of war while obliterating the green-skinned savages and filthy treelickers that dared approach with threats of bows and beasts simply because you improved the land they weren't even using anyway.
Your dwarves masterfully craft jewelry, trinkets, and drink which attracts traders from kingdoms far and wide who then return to their respective homelands with tales of unmatched revelry in your awe-inspiring tavern which in turn draw yet more visitors who wish to stay and seek glory within the ranks of your famous monster hunter squads.
Only for your fortress to fall to a flesh-eating bacterial infection that one of your soldiers tracked in under his boot after venturing out into the depths of an unknown cave system and you haven't adequately produced and stocked the cleaning supplies necessary to prevent such a disaster.
Pros of rimworld (With all 3 DLC, excluding mods)
1) Enemy can breach and sap walls
2) Better combat system
3) Much better graphic
4) Much2 better UI
5) Better pawn control
6) One of the most active modding community on steam workshop to shore up any of rimworld weaknesses
Pros of dwarf fortress (based on my experience playing only adventure mode lol and observation)
1) The world have history
2) Every living thing can have an impact on the world
3) Z level
4) Better fluid mechanics (magma, water on a tile have different depth, waves in the ocean)
5) More variety in biomes and weather (zombie land, human blood rain)
6) Unique forgotten beast
7) Alot more variety of races and beast
The conclusion? Play both, both are great game, and both deserve to be loved, they have their strength and weaknesses, but both deserve to be respected by the gaming industry...
An unofficial no sales promise is also something I really like about rim world. The pricing is always fair and will only increase over time.
As a fan of rimworld, I have of course been looking forward to this steam release of Dwarf Fortress. Glad to know that it is just as good if not better than the original, I will definitely be grabbing it
It's a continued development of the original, just with fancy graphics and sound effects. The "original" is still getting the same content and bug fixing updates as well as UI improvements that the steam version gets (available for free on their website) steam version just has those visual additions to make the game more accessible, but it is the same game we've known and love! Not a sequel is what I'm getting at here. The free version and steam will both be maintained with the same content.
I have been playing alot of ASCII games and complex games like COQ, CDDA, SS13, Elona+ etc but never Dwarf Fortress because I hated the controls so much, now I have a fortress with 170 dwarfs, I am living in luxury, I have slayed a titan, a minotaur, a goblin horde and a venomous forgotten creature, I love this game I played it for 7 hours straight after work.
I had the game on my wishlist for 3 years, so good to see it come so far from its humble asci origins. I believe this is the start of a new age of dwarf fortress, where its introduction to a wider audience will better it in the long run. Now that the game is out they can go back to adding more content to it again.
Personally, I think they still have a lot of work to do in the UI and quality of life departments before they go back to content. I am sure others will not agree with that, but as a developer myself, stuff like this really bothers me. There is so much room for improvement even in the Steam release. Who wants to scroll through a single, truly giant list of work orders visually scanning for the one they want to modify? Who wants to click a button *75 times* to prioritize a new work order near the top of the list? The steam release is miles ahead of the original ascii version, but its UI still leaves a *lot* to be desired. The game is so complex that UI matters so much more than in other games. Truly focusing on optimizing UI and quality of life would make a night/day difference for this game, its reach, and its legacy.
I actually find DF (steam ver.) waaaay easier to "get into" than Rimworld.
Rimworld is more "gamey" so I feel like I need to learn all the rules, tutorials, metas etc. Also Rimworld is throwing challenges at you "by design". DF on the other hand is soooo driven by it's simulation that I feel I can learn as time goes by. I can play it as a simple colony builder - This way I don't need to put myself in danger or, when I feel more comfortable with game systems, I can set a challenge for myself and see how it goes.
In short - I never feel anxious playind Dwarf Fortress. I'm just fully immersed in the world. While with Rimworld I feel that if I don't play by the rules I'm not playing it "right".
Well, RimWorld is harder, there is no way to get a perfect defense (unlike DF), that's probably why you feel like following a meta. DF is also slower paced giving you more time to grow.
I'd tell you to adapt RimWorld to what you want to play like.
It's a lot easier to min-max on RimWorld than DF.
DF's optimizations and stockpile management are still awful in comparison, even Gnomoria's is better.
Gnomoria for a way smaller game had a lot of QoL in place that the new DF could have used.
@@lminithgarn9624
There is no way to get a perfect defense in DF too
@@lminithgarn9624 You can simplify DF items though at the moment through mods that generalize the items into simpler groups and a few "features" to manage a compact stockpile of quantum proportions.
If you think DF have perfect defence, you haven't dug deeply enough or played on hardcore maps that make you feel like it's a simulation of cabin in the forest from Evil Dead where playing at a slow pace meant instant death. You must rush everything and at some point make calculated sacrifices for the survival of your community.
Less we also forget the supernatural subversive elements that sneaked in when a fortress is massive and rich...or risk of zombie-like exponential infections from a single werebeast's bite or strange fogs that your dwarves conveniently tread all over the place...or the dangers of the deep water, to quote LOTR: "...the pool is up to the wall at Westgate. The Watcher in the Water took Óin. We cannot get out. The end comes..."
There are some enemies you can poke easily to death with spears while some requires crushing with hammers or they will never truly die...and some deadlier titans must be hacked limb by limb with axes or their deadly rampage are unstoppable...but if you play long enough, you'll learn...you will learn that losing is "FUN".
@@MrArthoz
"You can simplify DF items though at the moment through mods"
That's a con not a pro. I wouldn't expect otherwise from the modding community but the base game shouldn't require fixes for basic functionality specially with that price tag. People going for quantum stockpiles isn't something to be praised either.
But there is a perfect defense, in fact there are some. Maybe not if you're a new and a chill player, but as someone used to old RTS and survivor games, early I rush and as time goes it gets easier unless you're just testing stuff to be fun and have stories to tell.
@@lminithgarn9624 similar with RimWorld. Look up all the playthrough on CZcams today and everyone who plays it...are there anyone who plays it with zero mod?
You can with DF and many still do plays it vanilla without any mod all on the steam version or the free version.
But tell me, will anyone even buys RimWorld if it doesn't have any modding community?
Having over 1000 hours in Rimworld but 0 in DF this is exactly what was I looking for. Good insight thanks
Great video @BasedBellagio! I have already laid to waste two colonies in just 4 short hours...lol. One for lack of water and the other from war at my front door. It has been fun. I got much better the second time around. Thanks again!
Keep checking legends mode after retiring a fort to see all the cool stories that happened. Then start a new fort in that same world. Rinse and repeat then when Adventure Mode releases you can explore all your ruined forts
@@BasedBellagio I will make my next fortress on the same map I was just on. This should produce more history! Thanks for the reminder.
Rimworld is a nice game but as you alluded to the world of Rimworld is dead, a mere painted background for the player. I always felt this was RW's biggest weakness.
Rimworld is more "fun", but DF is WAY more satisfying. If you can get through the learning curve, DF is probably one of the most absorbing games you'll ever play.
Main difference:
Dwarf Fortress: Collectivism
Rimworld: Individualism
Nah, Dwarf Fortress is very individualistic, all the dwarves have personalities and they want privacy and properties for themselves, DF is a simulator of a dwarf society which is more unite in fun but still have individuality (not elves)
Rimworld: "Ok gang, this what we'll do next."
Dwarf Fortress: "What ARE THEY DOING ???"
What I love to do is try to have my fortress influence the world as much as possible (like creating a world renowned library) then to eventually play Adventure mode to observe how much that impacted my world. I always try to play as a peasant instead of a godlike creature as a challenge, and then try to find a necromancer tower to learn how to raise the dead. I do have various longterm goals though:
1. Create an underground labyrinth and throw a captured minotaur in there, and then I would end up throwing prisoners the labyrinth.
2. Capturing a dragon in a cage and somehow breed it to train dragons.
A very good video. I love both games and would recommend anyone loving one of them to check the other one too. They're similar enough to satisfy that same community management need, but different enough to create variety on one's diet.
Great review matw
I've been seeing Dwarf Fortress for a long long time but it is just difficult to play back in the day so when Rimworld appeared I like it cuz it is way more simplier than Dwarf Fortress, but now they updated the visual it became one of my fave game.. But honestly I'm glad that Dwarf Fortress getting attention now and thanks to it Rimworld won't be became what it is today if Dwarf Fortress didn't exist in the first place... This was like Father (Dwarf Fortress) and Son (Rimworld) game. I like both so whoever says "this one is better" well it is non-sense to me.
True, it's all about spectrum of approach. Nothing is perfect but everything is good in it's own way...like ice-cream is delicious but sometime we'll be craving for savoury roasts or hot spicy stew.
I wrote elsewhere of the complete full spectrum of my favourite games depending on my mood and taste of the moment: ValheimRimworldDwarf FortresSong of Syx.
Valheim: though craft-wise is lesser than Minecraft, it's a game of a one dwarf army crafting and constructing your way to destroy forgotten beasts. It focuses on a survival simulation.
Rimworld: to quote a reviewer "focusing much on small-scale dynamics, simulating the individuality and psychology of a small group of colonists".
Dwarf Fortres: again I quote "deep and detailed simulations of each individual, but the scale is larger and the numbers are larger, and individuals are managed less proactively by the player".
Song of Syx: little to no focus on the individual and more details on colony/kingdom and micromanaging it.
in all honesty, I played rimworld, and the way I played it made it very hard for me to transition into DF because I always paid special attention to my 3-5 colonists and made sure that their jobs and skills were set up properly and that they had cool bionics and augmentations so you could imagine my shock when I play DF and try to play it like rimworld only to get nothing done because I was too focused on my dwarves
I'm not saying that DF is a bad game or that it's not for me, it's just that I find it somewhat annoying when people say "if you like rimworld, you'll like this" because it's not necessarily true as these two games are so vastly different that you really cant go into one game and expect it to be like the other in any significant way
Yeah you really need that "Properly like"
micromanaging dwarves really isn't something you can do. If you need something done, assign someone, and pray the migrant code sees that you are trying to do a labour and send more migrants of that labour. I got an entire guild of rangers that way because I wanted to catch a hamster for a sad craftsdwarf.
Yes, many people didn't play RW enough to understand the differences. This video was similar, many false statements about RW.
Both have a common ground but are different games.
The lack of QoL management on DF in comparison is what's most annoying to me. They didn't bother to take ideas from RW or Gnomoria on that regard.
I remember on one gameplay years ago, that a bird stole my anvil. I had to wait two years to finally buy my ordered anvil on my first caravan.
Oh, in another gameplay I once got some friendly goblins in the neighbourhood, and over the years we've also began trading. That was surprising.
Yeah retiring your fortress is cool not just for the legends mode, but also just having a consistent world where you can go back and settle across from your old fortress, or try to reclaim a fortress you lost to goblins or whatever is super interesting, and really starts to connect the world outside of your one single fortress.
I haven't done it yet, but I also had an idea to equip a purely militaristic group to claim a hostile fortress, then retire it, and come back with a more well rounded group to settle in.
The Z-axis thing is what makes me unable to return to Rimworld. This adds so many options.
Never played Dwarf Fortress but what you said about its simulation kinda reminded me of Stalker's A-Life Simulation where things happen on the other side of the map. NPCs die, mutants get killed completing quests you might have etc.
Rimworld is about character development. I never have a bigger colony than 10 and you grow super attached to your characters. In this way it plays more like the Sims. I'm going to buy Dwarf Fortress and I'm sure I'll like it but it seems like it's quite different tbh.
This is why I prefer Rimworld, in DF I just don't really care if anyone/everyone dies :/
@@Ali.M the catchphrase of DF is "losing is fun". I LIKE it when my dwarves die, because it's mostly because of dumb hilarious ways. The amount of dwarves that weny crazy and stripped naked before dehydrating is uncountable.
You can have these same attachments to dwarfs in df. The thing is that it doesn't slap you these stories and quirks and personalities of a dwarf in the face. You have to look for them. For example I had a married couple in my fort once. The husband got assassinated/murdered and the wife got married again shortly after. So it was pretty clear she or the guy she married murdered her previous husband. When that fort fell and her new husband died during the battle she was one of the last few survivors. I made a new fort in that world and after a while I checked up in legends mode on the people who remained of that last fort to see what they are up to and I read that she traveled around for a bit and settled in an ai fort. She schemed her way to the ranks and then married the king of that fort. That King was also a necromancer and after some years she became a necromancer herself. Then she killed her husband and resurrected his corps and assigned him to the military. She then got married a dozens of times more every year and every one she killed after a while and resurrected them again to add to the army. She slowly took over a whole civilizations with multiple forts with her undead husband army.
Df creates insanely interesting characters you can get attached to.
@@imbaplayer7 exactly this, you won't know all your dwarfs but you do get to know them, it can also be like your fort has celebraties least that's how I find it lol, you keep running into the same dwarfs and learn more about them and then yea it's just a rabbit hole😂
@@dadabler8714 that seems to happen to me to all the time
Don't forget the added benefits of the Steam Workshop for mods as well as Steam's version control, more reasons why the steam version is justified over the original with tile sets, however I am itching for adventure mode again!
Let me shit on both Rimworld and Dwarf Fortress, both of those games are single threaded in multi-core multi-threaded CPU world.
Yes. We also absolutely need that Raytracing and 250fps 4k quantum simulation.
@@fast1nakus False.
I didn't shit on the Graphics.
Multithreaded multicore will enable larger world and really help the late game with large colony / fortress.
The ui is still atrocious for 2002 standards. Worst ofender is the workstation one tab for single order another tab for multiple! Why? (And orders sometimes are bugged) but still enjoying it :)
@@1ndragunawan Why do you need larger colony in DF?
You wouldn't want world population of 10 billion in GOT or LOTR world.
@@MastiKaHathi both Rimworld and Dwarf Fortress would be dead way before 10 billion population.
Just play both, and you'll see.
Even tho i love rimworld combat more, the kind of simulation of DF is so cool. Yesterday i had a wolverine attack me and my dwarf got into a grappling fight ,grabing toes,legs and everything xDD. At the end of the day is cooler watching Dwarf Cena but a little more engaging the shooting on Rimworld.
Might get this game tbh
Dwarf fortress is 100% worth it for 30$ buy this game. Support the creators.
2:53: That Indian tune though..😅🔥😂
I can never try rimworld because of how uninspired the graphics are. Gameplay sure is a core part of a game but damn I don't want to look at those graphics
Install 2 - 5 graphics mods and it'll be fine. I can name some if you want. DF didn't have graphics at all until recently and Rimworld's graphics are much easier to analyze from than DF's.
@@LeeAmNiesen don't worry I'm not asking for this problem to be solved, I'll just never play it and that's alright :)
DF actually had graphics, just ASCII ones. I found those so much more inspiring than the new ones as well but I recognise that they make the game easier to play!
@@Neurotypique ASCII has its charm, but i can hardly define that as graphics ^^ each to their own i guess. both are fine games in the end. i suggest you don't dip rimworld completely though, you'll miss out alot. the games are incomparable to me and have different focuses
PS: the more i dig into the rimworld vs. dwarf fortress discussions, the more it feels like a vanilla vs. strawberry ice cream discussion to me
great. this makes me much more likely to try out DF one day.
while i loved Rimworld, i didn't like that everything was centered around the player's colony, and the outside world is mostly static and meaningless. the "losing is fun" mantra didn't apply to Rimworld for me because i wanted the fun of possibly losing due to a simulated world, not because of game-fied mechanics and threat scaling and RNG with no cause and effect. if it's a world interacting in a meaningful way causing me to lose, that's fun. Rimworld's design around challenges and losing was never fun.
Rimworld is a pocket sized screwdriver while Dwarf Fortress is an entire mechanics shop full of every tool in existence.
DF is one of, if not the most, deep games to ever be created.
ive been trying to decide based on info like yours, but from what I have seen from youtube vids the game doesn't seem as deep as everyone says, maybe I just have to play it to really feel the nuance, but it just seems like random AI stuff that has no real impact, but I guess I just need to play, each game I've watched I have seen no curveballs, nothing interesting, just the same base building over and over with some teching, just like RW
@@lswallie How difficult/interesting the game is mostly depends on how interesting the player is. If you just want to build a really safe base and do nothing interesting, the game doesn't really throw anything at you. Settle in a savage haunted biome with goblin towers/other shit near you? The game becomes massively more difficult. Most people new to the game are doing the equivalent of the easiest storyteller with all the difficulty turned down. If you really want an insane challenge, there is absolutely a way to do it.
In terms of difficulty? The interesting part mostly comes from the living world the game produces. You can play dozens of runs in the same world. And once adventure mode is added to the steam release (an RPG mode where you play one character instead of settling a fortress) you can go explore that big living world full of the factions and places you've interacted with in fortress mode. You can even go explore the ruins of your failed fortresses. Dwarf Fortress requires you to put something out there to get something back, things don't just happen to you for no reason because the game isn't based around throwing a story at you. I think that's where the nuance and depth comes from, the fact that it's not so much a "the game decided to randomly spawn some enemies to attack you/randomly spawn a thief to steal something from your fort" like Rimworld would do, but rather that they happen naturally based on the consequences of a wider simulated open world. The player isn't treated any differently, things happen because the NPCs want to do them, not because the player is special and has some omnipotent force making things happen to them.
@@lswallie rimworld spawns things around you
Dwarf fortress simulates everything, it doesn't spawn in things, the world is simulated outside
Yes. But god forbid you build 1 tile width walls out of mud. No one will be able to break them. Thats where i just uninstalled DF after figuring out this shitty mechanic. Just build wall, make your fortress self sustainable and you won. If you play smart there is almost nothing that can destroy your fortress. Boring.
@@lane9668 And thats where DF falls short. It relies that player will not optimize fun out of the game. I need to play it sub optimally in order to have something interesting happening to my dwarfs. And playing sub optimally meaning do not build enclosed walls. Because nothing in the game can break them or dig through ground. 20 years and devs still didnt implement this simple feature. So stop worshiping this game. Rimworld gives more challenge and interesting situations on average than Dwarf Fortress. Especially when player tries to play optimally.
As a big rim world fan, and as someone who just began dabbling in DF, I completely agree with the rim world assessment.
How are you a big RimWorld fan and you agree that its world stops outside of your map? That was the case a long time ago.
@@lminithgarn9624 because, genuinely, nothing happens outside of your map, except for random quests. the world is completely static and only changes if you act on it
I bet it won't be long before Rimworld goes from 2D to 3D, like Dwarf Fortress. That has to be the biggest difference between the two.
Very nicely broke down. peace
Dwarf fortress would definitely be up my alley right up there with my 2 thousand hours in Rimworld. The only thing is, I vastly prefer sci-fi over fantasy.
It's not all about colonist skills unlike RimWorld and is more about numbers... It's impossible for a single dwarf to do everything and the stuff they do are all related to the tools they are holding so they can't just immediately switch to whatever.
Well yes...but there is a solo hermit play challenge people do on DF. There's also mod for that to make it less frustrating. It only need time for the modding community to filter into steam.
I couldn't play dwarf fortress after i realized all i needed to do to keep indefinitely myself safe was to wall myself in. That was super immersion breaking
I fundamentally disagree with the idea that simulators aren't games
People disagree with the truth all the time. Its ok. ;)
A simulator can also be a game, which DF is, but simulation is a field of investigation on itself
I got both games, 50 hours in each. They are similiar, but quite different. RW is much friendlier and you have (mostly) control over pawns. DW is a bit more difficult to get into (took me few hours to take notes what and how to do it).
I like both and you should do the same during time instead of spouting flame wars on forums :) (to those who are doing it)
I can have 100+ peapole in RimWorld my PC can't handle it
Ive been intereseted in rimjobworld as of recently. Now dwarf fortress is out and i dont know which to buy.
df
You will play rimworld for thousands of hours
But you'll play DF for the rest of your life
as someone who bought rimworld just today, i wish i got df instead.
@@dilantee refund🙏🙏
@@chumpydump too late i have 10+ hours already
Rimworld, you can figure out in about an hour, and do well. And if it's too overwhelming, you can scale back the difficulty.
Dwarf Fortress, you need to study an entire encyclopedia, just to not die in the first year. If it's too hard, too bad. There's not even game-speed settings, never mind difficulty.
Alt- and alt= is to slow and speed up the game. Turn on fps in game setting to see
that's not true, in a few hours, ran a few forts and it was easy mode, i had to youtube how to do some basic stuff because the game is lackluster ui wise, but that was about it in terms of difficulty, the rest of the stuff it's not important to bother with min maxing as the game gets stale quickly.
People saying its a new rimworld, bro it literally is rimworlds ancestor
Rimworld always put me off, once for the shameless DLC pricing policy and second for the absolutely random events. The DLC's might appear "normal" for younger players (
Rimworld's "parentage" is highly inspired by Dwarf Fortress and Prison Architect.
The Npc's in this game are very smart, their ai is simulated, they work kinda like the NPC's in the sims 3 aka story progression, they live their lives, they fight evil, they turn evil, they become rulers, they get married, have kids, get divorced, go crazy, get drunk, cause insurrections, wage wars, have alliances, produce artifacts/ other equipment, make money (merchants), commit genocide, assassinate people, kidnap children/babies (goblins do this), civilizations rise and fall, they can train and get stronger, basically all the type of events that exists IRL, excluding fucked up sexual events which I won't speak of cause that shit is fucked up. NPC's can become very evil tyrants, they can become necromancers and try to kill everyone, they can become were beasts and vampires, etc, the hexes/ curses are pretty interesting. Also the NPC's activities that are happening all over the world in game also gets recorded into Legends mode as you are playing at the same time, they will keep progressing and progressing till they go extinct.
Basically this games story progression is story progression on STEROIDS, I wish there was more games with this type of ai, imagine a elder scrolls type of game with simulated AI much like dwarf fortress, oh god the fun!
I laughed very hard at the huge birds part kidnapping dwarfs and such, because I still remember a hawk stealing a stone wheelbarrow from my fort once, and I was like "WTF? HOW?"
I remember once losing my anvil at the start of the game to a bird, that run was very scuffed.
Gnomes coming out of the Caverns? Truly dark days.
Flying enemies are a menace
One question. Does Rimworld have a tech tree?
I think the more I've played these colony type games, and survivor games in general, I've come to realize that I hate tech trees. If I have the supplies to do something, just let me do it. Don't make me grind XP to unlock it, especially if that grinding entails doing things or making hordes of junk I don't want or need just for the sake of XP.
I knew dwarf fortress was older i just never could get pass the old graphics style the ones on steam with the new ui is so much better but rimworld is so much better imo just because i played it first in a decent state even before it was on steam i was in ther during the first alpha's of it man its a blast to see how much it evolved !
So far (~5 hours in) I really don't like Dwarf Fortress. The control scheme feels painfully unintuitive, and I don't just mean the default key bindings. Every menu is a total information overload, made worse by the fact I have no idea what any of it means or which ones might be important. I constantly feel like everything I'm doing is both wrong and not enough despite the lack of problems so far. Absolutely none of the mechanics seem straightforward or self explanatory.
Most damning, however, is likely my abject hatred of the phrase commonly associated with DF, "losing is fun"
Yeah it's not thr game for you. It takes HOURS to work out the controls alone. And you neeed to lose often to learn the game.
There's no endgame you survive till you don't
What i like to do is create demigods in adventure mode and "park" them all at my fortress
Only thing I don't like on DF is the aquafiers. I always end up flooding my base
There is a mod to remove aquifers already in Steam Workshop.
Honestly i love dwarf fortress combat nothing like punchiong somones stomach for them to crawl on the ground and puking and being in pain
I feel like these birds were a very traumatic part of your play through 😂😂
Bruh i havent thought about terrets guy in years lol
Its amazing but the magic vanishes when you undestand that all this simulation is like ai writing the best song in the world based on all the best songs written by humans. Its weird and often makes no sense. Its gonna be idiot things like birds being called "big bird" or eagles having a reading perk, its stupid and probably very amusing to those who dont dwell on it deeper. Its like people who like mmos because its so big and endless, yet quantity of random generation is lacking quality. Not saying dwarf fortress is a bad game just questioning my own perception of what it is.
I really want to like Dwarf Fortress, but it's incredibly clunky.I'll take a look again some other time, when hopefully new game changing updates will come to revamp everything once more.
Rimworld is accessible and readable. It doesn't have the exact same vibes, but it's fun too.
If only z levels mod for RimWorld worked and worked in the workshop the two games would be perfect
The z levels mod has an unofficial patch for 1.3 but not q.4 yet
Im in the weird group where I could never get into RW but I love DF
There's a lot of "my game is better than yours" argument happening in the comments here, but that's not really here nor there. The video here addresses this in saying Rimworld is more "game" than Dwarf Fortress. Dwarf Fortress is not a game you win or lose at. It's a simulation in which you can create amazing stories in collaboration with the game itself and all of its interacting systems. It requires the player to want to experience and create those stories, which, yes, DOES mean playing "sub-optimally" in traditional game terms. There's a reason people say "losing is fun" and it's all to do with these stories.
As a hypothetical example of the kind of stories I'm talking about, here's something that can happen:
Let's say you have a legendary iron sword crafted by your finest blacksmith, have an adventurer in adventure mode go retrieve that sword and slay a vampire with it, thus coating the sword in that vampire's blood. You could then have that adventure try and use that same sword to slay a Roc, only to have the sword get lodged in the Roc's wound before the great bird ultimately slays the adventurer. That Roc could then later show up in one of your future forts, and in the chaos of combat, the vampire-blood-soaked sword could fall into your dwarves' water supply. Then, by drinking the trace amounts of vampire blood, you find your dwarves have suddenly become vampires, one of whom just so happens to be the king of your civilization, thus changing the course of history.
If the possibility of stuff like that happening doesn't excite or interest you, then yeah, it probably isn't the game for you. And that's okay; DF a legendary game for a reason, but it's certainly not for everyone. (side note: if it DOES excite you and you want to hear some actual stories from actual player experiences, you can always look up Kruggsmash here on youtube!)
I've read every single comment here and this is a lie
@@matthewbadger8685 I may have exaggerated a bit saying there's "a lot" of that discussion happening. But there's certainly some. Or did you mean something else?
@@Spaceroast I think there was only one comment that mentions that subject, out of something close to 40
Bro you don't need to make an essay just to prove a point. You think ppl gonna read that?
@@torodile9399 My dude, this is a dwarf fortress video. If you don't like reading, I don't know what to tell you.
9:15 well that aged like milk... but hey, april 2024 is the time
its sad that my 13900k cant handle 300 dwarfs.
the only thing I don't like about Dwarf Fortress is the performance, high-end PC and it runs between 50 to 20 fps
Happens to me too. You have to make sure your dwarves arnt hoarding their old dirty socks! After I had them throw all of their old clothes into a furnace I went from 25fps all the way back up to 40fps
I don't think anyone genuinely believes DF is a copy of rimworld, and if there are people like that out there, they don't have enough disposable income to buy either of the games (or a PC in the first place, lol!).
I haven't been able to play dwarf fortress in a few years, due to the game always crashing. Idk what I'm doing.
Now I can play easy, with no crashes! I'm loving every second watching my dwarfs do dwarf stuff
Dwarf Fortress would be better all around, I think, if it wasn't for the god awful interface. It has basic functionality buried in random nested menus and even people who have been playing for 10+ years have to look up how to do basic things from time to time. It's hard to go back to after playing Rimworld. Rimworld also performs better, but that's expected since there's less world simulation going on.
You get the highest cap for colonists in Rimworld with Randy Random.
Cassandra Classic and Phoebe Chillax cap out around 30 colonists.
Randy gives you 200 units of milk, self tamed rats and a packs of roaming alpha beaver to wake up in the morning... Randy thinks you need 50 colonists before things start to look crowded.
Absolutely love Rimworld and think its gameplay is way more engaging and fun
1:16 thats completely arbitrary
Video game is broad, this is a narrowing of the term video game unnecssarily
baste
I enjoyed my time with Rimworld but the feeling of the game "attacking you" in a seemingly XCOM BS fashion kinda put me off. In contrast I am enjoying Dwarf Fortress much more because like you said; the world exists around you, and isn't spawned in for you.
Rimworld is like new xcom, dwarf fortress is like the good old xcom.
to a degree. one of my prt peeves is the overly aggressive way citizens of old forts show up as migrants in new ones. Forts on two opposite aides of the globe, across a terrifying ocean? no prob, half the old fort will be here by tuesday.
Rimworld is a better game, df is better simulation. nice one
honorable mention: Songs of Syx
That is a bad quote to be honest 😅
HAHAHA they said April but not wich April lmao
Can a person go back to rimworld after playing DF? I know i cant
for me it was the opposite, it made me love Rimworld and realize how much of a better game it is from all aspects, df is shallow.
i feel the opposite. DF is entertaining surely, but it really made me appreciate the cleanliness and focus in Rimworld.
WHO EVER SAYS dwarf fortress is a RIMWORLD COPY... your trolling or you've just played urself. Kek have have a good day
Dwarf Fortress reminds us that when you come at the king, you best not miss. (I love Rimworld, but good god Dwarf Fortress is a real juggernaut of a thing.)
Does anyone know if DF will ever be available on for Mac?
Just get a steam Deck. It works flawlessly there. Also you can play basically everything on it.
Quote from their FAQ on a steam update note:
"Q: When will there be Mac/ Linux support?
Sometime in 2023! We’ve already contacted a trusted programmer who will be looking into it, while Tarn works towards our other roadmap items. Wish us luck!"
@@kraiskno offense but dwarf fortress on steam deck sounds like absolute shit
XD I dont think fish are supposed to have personalities XD
its one of those much loved bugs you find in the game.
hoping they keep it in tho
That mask in the water is fucked up
As a simulator DF is just superior. That said, rimworld clearly has plenty of things that DF doesnt have. Both are games you should have and enjoy. Great games.
rimworld is one Z-level, DF has 100. This is enouth comparaison for me
Rimworld is certainly not a "better video game than DF".
There would not be a Rimworld without DF.
Rimworld is a game "standing on the shoulder of a giant" named DF.
Rimworld is to DF what WoW is to Everquest: a clever and more accessible clone that found a huge commercial success
@@chumpydump i don't know what data you take, but in Steamdb Rimworld have more players than in Dwarf fortress. But Dwarf fortress have more players than Rimworld in release date
"Hidden fun stuff" is not a confirmed feature. I would prefer a spoiler warning before you decide to speculate on the evidence we have please
I absolutely love Rimworld, but after a few days with the updated Dwarf Fortress, I'll never install Rimworld again.
kinda feel the same way
@@keefseg I should say I probably won't ever reinstall Rimworld again. Its a fantastic game, but Dwarf Fortress is just a bit more for me.
@@humorinpolitics56 kinda feel the same way
I like both
@@humorinpolitics56 I'm honestly shocked that you people prefer the lesser game over the better, deeper, more content one, you'll see after 5 hours of DF that it's not worth it over RIm.
no day night cycle in dwarf fortress mode
Maybe you missed it in the text dialogue... 😂
Tried playing RimWorld but after years of DF RW seems boring to me.
Biggest issue with Dwarf Fortress 0 game idea like mining and building absolute vibe kill but everything else is great
So, essentially rimworld is Copenhagen interpretation and dwarf fortress is causal determinism.
in dwarf fortress you can read a text about the entire story the third and how he made a epic statue of his king slaying a giant that got legendery status and everyone from the world will come to visit the legendary dwarf art
in rimworld you can use you mouse and see what the fuck is actually going on see the story of lucia the artist pawn and how she got stuck on the rimworld and read about the statue she made about her friend killing a centipide on 5503 with a rifle
i think i will stick with rimworld
yeah in df i can do a lot of random shit that has no impact on the game that matters
but in rimworld i can play an actual game and understand what is going on without having to deal with bullshit
just created a world on df and the story on the world seems pretty intresting with untamed landmass and a war of the last humans vs the last dwarfs to see who will survive the goblin tide
its a shame it will all go to waste because i have no ideias how to play this game
The moment you said folks were calling dwarf fortress a rimworld copy, i burst out laughing. Guess folks really didn't know dwarf fortress is OLD.