Has Giannis or Jokic Passed Dirk As The European GOAT?
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- čas přidán 23. 01. 2024
- URBONUS’ Donatas Urbonas & Augustas Suliauskas discuss whether Giannis Antetokounmpo or Nikola Jokic already surpassed Dirk Nowitzki as the Greatest of All Time European player.
Check out the FULL EPISODE: • Is Jokic Already Europ...
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I think that Giannis and Jokic are already at the top spots in terms of European GOATS, not going through all their honours but the 2 NBA MVP's and NBA Titles that they both hold is elite. On top of the high likelihood that at least one of them adds a further MVP or NBA title to their resume.
Luka is 100% on his way to their status too, but needs more time to accummalte those honours. I think in the future, we could say the same for Wembenyama.
All respect to the European GOATS of the past, I love Dirk and Pau Gasol, but this new era is on a madness
Giannis and Jokic are already European GOATs and Luka is gonna catch them soon, respect to Dirk but those two I think surpassed them
I agree to a certain point. They are 100% on the trajectory, but I also agree with the video that longevity is an important factor. So I think its better to compare them to Dirk when he was their age and I agree that Giannas and Jokic have surpassed him there.
The game is way different now than what it was during Dirk's prime. The inflated stats is a real thing! Giannis and Nikola would not average what they average now, if they'd played in his era. Or vice-versa, Dirk would average more in today's NBA. Not just points, but assists and rebounds as well. They are on their way to surpassing him, they both can! But they HAVEN'T just yet!
Giannis and Jokic still have to deliver in FIBA basketball, I don't feel the NBA is the only measure for this conversation, specially today when the rule changes have driven the NBA game in a different direction.
And... these are my three favourite players ever; 😂
Yes, and we should not forget the path Wemby is on. It's still a reach but it's Wemby so even him can start to be part of the discussion in a few years depending of how his career develops. In 5 years he might have the biggest peak any European player ever had
I still think what Dirk did in 2006 and 2011 playoff runs keeps him at a higher level. He played and won against elite talent with elite teams, without home-court advantage. Giannis and Jokic don't have something similar to their resume.
You forgot Dejan Bodiroga. The NBA is not the only benchmark if we are looking for the best European player in history. Also we have Radivoja Koraca, Toni Kukoca, Sabonisa, Drazena Petrovica.
All of them can be included in the debate about the European GOAT in basketball
Agree 💯
This is also about how we approach specifying the tier list. To me longevity, success in all competitions (olympics, european, world championships, NBA). This is why Gasol is still in top 2-3 in my opinion. Yes these three active players would be the top three when they are retire, whereas I do not see huge difference unless Luka gets chip in NBA and Giannis has national championships.
I still consider Nowitzki till they do more with their national teams as he did many times and till they do more stuff single handedly which Nowitzki did in 2011 in NBA.
Jokic is not finished! The "GOAT" is yet to come!
So no mention about Tony Parker ? i can t believe it.
Petrovic would score more than all of them
Especially in today's NBA
Can’t argue that Dirk is European GOAT in NBA but what about Europeans who never played in the NBA? Who’s the all time European GOAT no matter where he played?
Bodiroga easy
Not yet but very close.
Individually i think its Jokić. All the record breakings, making his Team better. Nobody is having sucha impact to their Teams like Jokić do.
The main reason why I think Jokic is gonna be n1 and Giannis n2 is not because of titles, but longevity. Why? Because Jokic's game is about IQ, passes, making teammates better... and opposing to Giannis, he DOES NOT need physical strength to be great. In Giannis case, his better strength will also be his worst weakness
Only TP to beat, which is unreachable
what about vlade divac and peja?
Great players, but you can not seriously compare two guys that have maybe peaked as Top 15-20 in the World, in their best years, with guys like Dirk, Giannis, Jokic... These three have done things we have never seen anyone do on a basketball court EVER.
It would be one thing to say ''we don't know for sure'' because Vlade & Peja never played in the NBA and Dirk never played FIBA basketball, but we've seen them across both scenarios and Dirk is just superior. Dirk was carrying Germany to medals in 2002-2005, twice, playing with complete scrubs...
yes and no. in nba terms probably yes. but overhaul, they have to win gold with the national team to move in front of dirk
Dražen
Jokić is absolute GOAT 🐐
Those 2 guys took a bad organization and transformed them into champions..like Dirk did..for me they are at the same level
You got it exactly right. Dirk is still the european goat, but jokic is closing in fast and probably is going to end up as number one. Let's see about Giannis second half of his career. He already abandoned his very respectable 'do it yourself' approach by urging his team to trade for Lillard, and he had a very strong supporting cast when he won his first Chip. Dirk played the game the right way, and he earned his ring in 2011 with an amazing performance that was the culmination and sum of a lot of hard work and dedication, and it was great to watch!!!
Huge Jokic fan from Serbia here. For me, right now Gasol's case is strongest and purely because of his national team performances, guy has like 10-12 medals for Spain.
Jokic maybe
Giannis isnt on that lvl in my opinion
Not yet, Giannis if far away from Dirk, Jokic can be better if he continue few more years like this, Doncic hardly but maybe
Now you're also engaging in these unimportant, nonsensical, and non-contributory debates. Please leave that to ESPN etc. outlets for the NBA
1. Nikola Jokic
2. Giannis Antetokounpo
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Luka Doncic
5. Drazen Petrovic
6. Pau Gasol
7. Tony Parker
8. Arvydas Sabonis
9. Domantas Sabonis
10. Vlade Divac
Kukoc?
Stojakovic.
I would say the European GOAT is Spanoulis. why are we just looking at the Europeans that play in the NBA?
Jokić, Dirk, Giannis, Džanan Musa...
An average EuroLeague sf that just gets a lot of calls because he plays for Real Madrid next to hof players. That’s some nasty work
@@greatness7619Musa>Dončić
@@dr.IvoSanader not in this universe
Im joking.
@@dr.IvoSanader damn, you got me 😂
So dumb takes, both Giannis and Jokis won 2MVPs and Dirk only has one so they already have better resume
Dirk scored 48 on prime Iblaka in the playoffs vs a stacked Thunder
That's like 75 points due to inflation
Dirk being a dad and saying his son Luka will surpass him as the European goat.
No love for TP? First and only european starting PG with 1 final MVP and 4 titles...he is not the EU goat for sure but not even an honorable mention in the video is a bit crazy...
And 2013 Eurobasket MVP. They don't realize him is a European, I suppose)). And yeah, you can't find smaller market...
Underrated comment
Dirk played against better competition in his era not this new soft nba
🤣
Bro dumbest take I’ve ever seen Jokic and Giannis would kill in his era 😂
@@SteveoDuhh I didn't say they wouldn't
European GOAT passer is Teemu Rannikko. :)
They are both close to become greater than Dirk , they need one more ring.The man who will be European Goat untill 2034 is fat and his name is Luka, keep it
Jokić all day EVERY DAY 💯
This moment Dirk is the European Goat and it is very fair in my opinion. Nobody from that conversation has this career and had won prime Lebron,Wade,Bosh (please also value the work ethic,loyalty,never demanded trades or changing team). Jokic is 2nd and Giannis should never been to this conversation because it is an American product.
How is he an American product?
How is Giannis an american product!? He made his NBA debut at 18, Luka at 19, and Jokic at 20. None of them played any US high-school or college basketball and all of them were born and raised in Europe!
@@gabepizza because has not have the fundamentals of European basketball.
@@AlexDehaanTV he is more like embiid and not as close as jokic or Luka. The first two are from Africa and the other know all the fundamentals of European basketball.
@@TesseracTesseracT Well Giannis was born and raised in Europe, sooo NO. Embiid has never even lived in Europe (why are we talking about him!?). In terms of stylistic play, I can understand from that perspective, but I don't think that should come into the conversation for European GOAT. Do we exclude Larry Bird from the American GOAT conversation because he had amazing fundamentals?
What is goat if you have not seen the older generation you can only speak about the " most successful player" from Europe ever. But when it comes to basketbal iq and the influence on the game Jokic and Drazen Petrovic for me are the 2 best .. Petrovic scored once 64 points in the final of Eurocup with Madrid. He shot the 3 point better than Steff Curry...those who have seen him play against Zalgiris and Sabonis know what im talking about.
Drazen Petrovic is The European Goat.
There was a european national championship for Croácia that Drazen had 100% from 3s per game, except semifinal when he had 70%. He also had 10 assists per game.
HE had 60+ in a european team final.
Consider that back them stats were way lower. Drazen numbers were rude.
Drazen was phenomenal!
Jokić is the European Goat
Nowitzki never was the European GOAT. Drazen Petrovic is.
No shot dirk is still the euro GOAT