World of Warships - Captain's Academy #26 - The Armour Viewer
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2016
- Episode 26 of Captain's Academy deals with the armour viewer that's coming in patch 0.5.11. This viewer grants the player significant amounts of information with regards to the strengths and weaknesses of various ships armour. In this episode I look at the Cleveland, Tier 10 battleships, as well as a few other random ships. So sit back, relax and enjoy!
If you have questions, please leave them in the comments section below.
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UK: Armour
US: Armor
UK: Colour
US: Color
UK: What are you doing?
US: Trying to get rid of U
:p
GER: Panzerung Germans are allways complicate:D
UK: What are you doing?
US: Getting rid of U
Hahaha :D
Well just like armor shape of Pz IV and Leo2A6. They love it you know
Getting that "Of course, it all makes sense now!" feeling.
They should've released this (the armour view) from the beginning. This really shows how complex armour is. Now I guess we'll be upgrading all those ship review videos to include an analysis of the armour layout, citadel placement and so forth.
Great video. Loved that you included the Bayern. It's getting to be one of my favourite battleships, and now I know why a little better. Thanks.
Just stumbled upon you the other day, keep up the great content! ;)
Thanks! :D
You confirm my experience with the Bayern. It's a nicely tanky ship.
Thanks for showing that you can strip away armor sections while viewing. Did not know you could do that.
Once I managed to citadel a nicely angled Montana with my Missouri, first shot of the match, from 18km distance. I was really surprised to see that. Thanks to you, now I have an idea how that was possible.
My god, thank you so much for this video. This helps me so much to improve in the game. THANKS! :)
:D you're welcome
Would have loved to see the Tirpitz. Anyways, great video! Was quite awesome to see how the turtle back is modelled.
Hey Chase.
Thanks for this.
Yes, Grosser Kurfürst does have strong armour in the front. Or rather frontal protection. But take a look at the stern and you will see that it is *not* as well protected. A GK running away is going to be a much easier target to citadel, at least from a Yamato's perspective, as there isn't the same 60mm protective plating, and running away negates the turtleback armour.
It reminds me of that stream where you faced a GK for the first time and citadelled him. That was from behind, and not even with a Yamato.
thanks chase : ) very good information.
Thanks for that great preview
FINALLY I can start thinking up effective strategies per ship instead of using some general guidelines!
Knowledge... is power!
this is actually fascinating.. i had some concerns when i saw the German armour thicknesses but these have mostly been put to rest knowing that while the plates aren't soo thick there are like 4 of them layered together
IChase, great information as usual, this looks like a really good feature in teh next patch.
Nice video, sir, very good info :)
this is going to keep me entertained for hours :D
Yeah, I think I'm going to spend a bunch more hours on it too
Armour spelt right. Nice!
I'm Canadian, I like my letter U :P
+iChaseGaming Sweet. Glad to hear some of our North American cousins have taste ha ha. Though, if you want to troll the US some, go for Aeroplane instead of airplane. 😏 Keep up the good work Chase!
I thought your (lack of) accent was familiar!
colour not color
This is another reason to like you. ;)
I wonder if the Nurnberg is just modeled as one citadel ...
If the viewer shows otherwise you can't trust it.
The citadel probably extends beyond the visual model
I went in to the test server and took a look at Nurnberg's citadel armour. It's pretty broken. The citadel area is huge compare to Konigsberg's citadel which is really small, and parts of the citadel is not even protected by other pieces armour which are directly exposed to enemy fire
the Nürnberg has a Turtleback...
+Kaseko Not really...
Awesome! Can't wait for this to be out. Great video! Eh.
Can't wait on that armour viewer, that is AWESOME!
Hmm. Those British t9 and 10 cruisers might be sitting a touch too high in the water, much how the warspite and other ships were. Possibly.
Thanks for the vid, IC!
Aww man.. I was hop'n you'ld show the Fuso...
Thank you
Sweet Jesus that British tier 10 citadel. RIP
Hey Chase, just one question, do you know how "deep" the fired shells can go underwater? I mean if i know that the citadel is deep in the water, i'll just could just aim below the waterline?
Yamato master race 💪
This answers so many questions. Rather than having to guess a ship's vulnerable spots through trial and error, we can plan our strategies straight away. Mind you, the armour viewer doesn't matter a bit to CV or DD players, and barely matters to cruiser players. For BBs, though, this is fantastic. ^_^
Also...huh? Is it me, or is the Edinburgh looking better outright (aesthetically) than the Minotaur? For a tier 10 cruiser, the Minotaur looks a bit odd. I'm assuming that the Minotaur will be a floating HE machine gun in play-style, but visually it's just...urgh.
As someone who was a German Tank driver mainly on WoT, it's alien to me to no end that the German Ships in WoWs actually have the worst dispersion if we go by nation... at least for BBs. Well, I haven't actually begun grinding the German line yet (too busy playing with Nagato and Fuso) but there are times where I do think that accuracy on BBs is just a placebo effect since RNGjesus dictates all in the end.
So the Brit cruiser line is a whole bunch of Atlanta's? :P
I feel very special after watching this video, for having gotten citadel pens on a Yamato with my North Carolina. :)
:D nice
Chase, may i point out, this is armor, not citadel area. I believe some ships have extra citadels (like atago's open torpedo rooms).
Yeah, I was saying the same thing.
Yeah, I was saying the same thing.
I enjoyed this ... saved me doing it myself, thanks. I'm really enjoying the 5.11 public test ... so far, Pirate battle voiceover is probably my favourite dev - tho the armour viewer is more useful, it makes me laugh a lot less :)
Lol :P pirate voice is hilarious, I'm convinced it's Steven Seagal doing it lol
Whoa whoa whoa I just logged in to the PTR and found out that Hindenburg has a bloody turtleback too? I had no idea!
Hipper/Prinz Eugen and Roon have it too, not sure about Yorck...
yorck definetely doesn't have turtleback since it's ww1 design and also getting rekt like the pepsicola every time
Königsberg and Nürnberg have one too but its so thin that it gets overmatched
I'm gonna enjoy the new British cruisers.....citadeling them I mean.
This will be a nice feature to have in game.
Coming really soon :D
You can play it now on the public test server. Notice how it costs 4000 xp to research a yamato
+MarLap2000 yeah I know I just don't have the greatest internet so I didn't feel like download in the whole public test just for the armor view we're already played pretty much every ship in the game but I want to on public test
Another awesome video! Thanks.
MagnumMike. NA server
You're welcome ^^
I would have liked to see the Tirpitz/Bismarck as the Tirpitz was the first ship that was really hard to citadel, even impossible at medium to close ranges. But oh well I happened to have my test client open so I looked at it myself and it's the same story as the Bayern, the citadel is completely under water. Anyways nice vid as always :)
They're all having the same kind of citadel protection, close to no differences beside armour thickness
Well kinda, the Gneisenau, the Friedrich and the Kurfürst all have citadel above the water so it's not completely the same.
ricinus13 They all are protected by the turtleback so the way you approach them is the same even if there is a tiny above the waterline.
"Close to no difference" means "close to no difference" and doesn't mean "no difference at all". I chose my words.
Cool
Is it possible to aim below the waterline and land citadel hits on the underwater citadel area?
Is the overmatch mechanic only relevant when taking about the bow armor (fore end plating)? Would it be helpful if WG would also displayed the minimum shell calibre that can penetrate that piece of armor (for e.g. when you hover the mouse over)? That way no one needs to keep multiplying by 14.3 every time they look up a ship.
so the game registers shells going through the water? But do they also penetration in doing so?
I think the british cruisers are going to be the most torpedo friendly cruisers of the bunch so far may have to end up playing them like atalntas or even destroyers
You might now understand why your New Mexico gets it's guns knocked out often, but it's going to happen alot more often when the armour viewer is out.
That depends on how much players offer themselves to RNGesus.
my body and soul
I see the Montana still doesn't have the 57mm A armor deck above the 177+mm B armor deck it should have and suffers accordingly for it. But the fictional modified paper ship German T10 gets a much more complex scheme.
I demand a part 2!
Finally! This was a sorely missed aspect of the game!
Also, irl the Montana was actually designed with 57mm (2.25'') of top deck armor. Yamato, on the other hand, did not have armor at all above her main citadel (non-armored parts seems to be designated "32mm" on T8, 9 and 10 battleships (except Montana ofc..... @_@)).
They could have actually given her a buff that was both badly needed AND totally historical had they wanted to.... but oh well. WG logic.
i dont know that monty's design is impossible. however,
monty and yammy have same displacement, means have same steel quantity.
monty's citadel with 4 turret is 50% larger than yammy's.
overall monty's armor is weaker than yammy's, is considered natural, isnt it?
+Konigreich Feuer same displacement doesn't mean same armor. Different kind of steels have different densities which makes some of them heavier than others. Also, gun barrels, ammo and supplies are not armor but still counts as displacement.
Not to mention that different ships have their displacement budgeted out to different things in different ways. Some have more armour, while others have more tied up in their guns.
No, Yamato had armor above her citadel. 200-230 mm of MNC and 380 mm of MNC right below the smoke stacks.
Konigreich Feuer
First of all, not the same steel quality. Tested after the war, and the US one was better. Second, look at their armor designs:
smg.photobucket.com/user/icyhusky/media/USS%20Montana%20BB67%20model%20project/battleship0234copy-1.jpg.html
Yamato is more or less the way she is in game, except that the spall liner behind the main plate is omitted. She has a 200mm citadel roof, but no armor at all above that. She had no actual deck armor.
Montana horizontal protection had several layers, with 57mm of armor on the actual deck, 200mm/150mm of citadel roof and 19 mm/9mm of spall liner below that (but above the boiler rooms and magazines).
Yamato actually had a more radical "all-or-nothing" scheme than Montana, but the game treats it as if Montana had Yamato's deck armor and Yamato had Montana's deck armor.
great new feature, will surely elevate standard of play.
Cue heart of oak!
Hi Mr.Chase I got a question. I did once using a Tirpitz against a broadside Yammy and my full salvo got 7 citadel on her. Why is this happening???
Does this mean that it is easier to hit ships with citidel under the water line with plunging fire?
So this rule of thumb still applies:
Citadel = between smoke stacks on the waterline
Armor viewer is fantastic.
Well done vid ;) Greetings from Germany
Danke :D
+iChaseGaming BTW, do you think German DDs will come this year as well and how do you think will they perform?
Not sure tbh, in terms of performance my guess might be another line of gunboats?
With better AP performance? maybe?
Hopefully good torps, but I also guess they will be gunboats like the Russians, so very heavy DDs.
the turret barbettes are also a citadel i belive
hey, iChase, if you ever read this, there are some questions about the turtleback I'm hoping you could answer.
How, exactly, does it calculate the two layers of armour? does the game count them as a whole entity? Does it count them as two separate entities? Does the game calculate a turtleback ship to have their armour belt impede shots and reduce their speed before it hits the turtleback or not? How strongly does the angling of the turtleback feature?
depending on what the answers are, it could potentially make a ship like Grosser Kurfurst significantly more armoured at the belt than even Yamato and perhaps even stonewall Yamato's shots if angled correctly.
While I can see the issue on Montana armor, I've never struggled against a Yamato... They are extremely easy to knock out. I haven't got the chance against the new German BB (computer died) but I'm sure she's no different. Just all about how how you play.
Gotta love that magical, mystical *cough* fake trutleback armor! Good game mechanics are good! Also they should just give the Iowa/Montana 16" L50 guns the historical accuracy and penetration they deserve and just let them be sniper/support ships otherwise they will continue to simply be useless.
Now i wonder where the citadel of the Furutaka is. Failed to citadel a Furutaka in a Kongo at 3km range. And i shot at the Furutaka's Broadside. D:
Turtle-back Bayern!
Hey Chase. So looking at these images of the citadel, for example the Cleveland's, where would you aim your shots at at 13-10kms? It seems like when I aim just below the water line my shots either hit very short or they do hit that area, but doesn't seem to register a hit. Do shells continue to travel after hitting the water and if they do, how far do they travel?
They travel a bit under water, but the exact amount is still unknown
So pretty much you still aim at the water line or possibly a little below it to maximize the chances of hitting these hard to hit citadels on some of these ships?
the only reason why you can citadel a yamato on the Barbette is because there has to be a fair chance for other ships I was told by a mod
No wonder the poor pepsi gets citadelled every time it is hit by plunging fire..
Chase, do you think you could show the St Louis? I've been hearing some very interesting things about its armour lol
It cant get cit
+THE MYTHICALFIRE it can. i has irl what were called coal bunkers. its just VERY thick armor around the citadel.
ok lol but in t3 you have pray really hard for that
I didn't get a cit on the St Louis until I played the Nassau. Happened twice for me once within 4km.
the problem is, the coal bunkers are essentially providing spaced armor for the ship when in reality theyd burst into flames if struck by an AP shell from a BB
Pensacola has a small citadel above water, doesn't feel like it.
fuso ,floating citadel
just one question
why is the hatred on US ships from WG....
With that armor the British cruisers will be all but immun against BB AP...overpen, overpen, overpen, overpen...
btw ichase are you gonna do a cap skill guide for the german
I'll be revamping that episode soon
Is it possible that UK's light cruisers are so flimsy armored, so that BB caliber APs will overpen even the citadel area?
Damn us Brits for not building more heavy cruisers. Well I'm sure Wargaming can find some paper plans somewhere.
Now everybody can see why the Yamato is broken right now ;)
Japanese superviser in dev team, what are you expecting? lol
Different design philosopies.
US: We will crush them by superior numbers
Japan: Experience and practice makes perfect
Germany: Quality beats quantity
You can really see that. The Germans and Japanese spent some extra effort on construction a more elaborate (and harder to build) but better shape.
In Japan there's a religion called Yamatoism. Their worshippers preach about the glorious return of their seafaring God that will take them to the stars to erradicate Xenu and his heretics, starting with Tom Cruise. They don't have one Bible, but instead several holy texts, that together form what's called the "Animi Evangelion", comonly known as "Anim. E." or just anime. Yamatoism is divided into several different churches, all of them with their own prophet and their own interpretation of how their God will return.
+Achim Hanischdörfer
Germans: Let's mount 380 mm guns on a giant seafaring turtle.
Not even wrong.
At front armor plate!
From my experience of montana vs tier ten german battleship. the german tier ten like tirpitz and bismarck is vulnerable to plunging fire and has weak armour in the superstructure and thanks to it's size (313) meters according to wargaming. Not that hard to hit at distance with montana
The best thing about a pep is people who over pen, even though it hurts, it's better than getting uninstalled from the match.
I wonder how the high tier Brits are going too play, those things are massive glass cannons.
As an Atlanta player, I feel bad for the upcoming British light cruisers having such a weak citadel for tier 9 and 10 BBs and heavy CA to munch on. Oh well, God save the Queen! I have been waiting for British vessels for ages.
So in this public test version can you play tier ten ships? I noticed they aren't 999999 xp :P
Yeah, public test lol
biggest problem with the montanais that it should have at least as much pen as the yamato and at long range has MORE (british naval ordenance review)
Because of the Mk.8 Super-Heavy-Shell?
Unfortunately, what people always miss is the fact that comes close to a Yamato's shell when it's plunging fire. It can pen well then, but not necessarily like a Yammie in other respects. Likewise, Yamato's main strength here is it's overmatch ability, which is purely based on shell calibre, thus everyone but Yamato loses out when it comes to 32mm bows.
Calling it now.. Yamato won't get nerfed. She'll just be relegated to 2nd Class when the 20" Russian Tier X comes out.
cause that will happen
If you don't think the Russian Fan Fiction, won't continue into the battleship line like it has the cruisers, I want what you're drinking lol
WG has said multiple times Yamato has the biggest guns that the game will ever see so sadly no 20in guns.
They say that... just like they "say" they had no intention on Gremy and Nikolai being brokenly OP... yet russian premiums keep coming out broken lol
The Russian BBs will have 16 inch guns, because that is what they were planned to have.
How do you get to the armor view in the current version?
Ichase can i ask you a question does the german bbs from t3 to t6 have the lowest sigma or maybe they just cant cit i can pen alot and do alot of 11k damage salvo but rarely cit
ALL german BBs have (save for the T5 with 2.0) 1.8 sigma. they just have really bad dispersion
also your using the smallest caliber guns for a BB. Citadels come with CL/CAs but youll rarely cit another bb
Bad dispersion, and smaller guns, but they do pen for quite a bit of damage
Admiral Chase, at 5.05 you explain why the Montana is so easy for a yamato to citadel from the front which if you look at the math is why WG's armor methods are very flawed. That forward citadel armor should be in addition to the Montana's Barbet/magazines so its not 457mm+ Barbet armor which should equal in the ballpark of greater than or equal too 800mm armor. Yamato at the most, should be getting penetrations or over penetrations do to the mass amount of armor and space armor that shell has to travel through. The bow armor should automatically count as spaced armor: more survivability; Apparently WG is forgetting this.
This explains why US ships which are armor dependent perform so poorly in survivability to their counterparts regardless of class (excluding Cvs.) The excessive protection provided by their designs is being excluded by the ARP guru's for revenge purposes. For example, at the moment, the New Orleans is the most under armored and underperforming of the tier eight ships because she has less armor than a Cleveland. Will you please to know according to Navsource.org, the New Orleans should have up to 203mm thick armor; she does not. WG gives New Orleans not only less armor than her tier six counterpart, but even her tier 8 counterpart mogami which gets 140mm protection over her magazines where N.O gets only 100!.
will you please speak with wg about giving New Orleans her historic 203 mm turret/citadel armor. Its only fare when every other nation gets its historic parameters, Its been plaguing the ship since inception while IJN ships get better everything including armor.
Let's get the STS armor effects in for the USN already....
First of all, thanks for all the information you've passed on it your videos. I really enjoy them and your channel. The points I would like clarified on the armor viewer are as follows: The Montana armor modeling seems too simplistic when compared to the Japanese and even the German battleships! The Iowa class battleships had significantly sloping armor belts on the sides and forward the number one barbet (at least the renderings that I have seen) and yet the Montana had none of that! It seems to me that the Bureau of Ships and Ordinance would not of over look something as critical as the armor sloping that had gone into the previous builds. Am I missing something or has wargaming? I have also read quite a bit about the brittleness of the Japanese armor and it seems that there had been no modeling for that as well. I'm sure as well researched as your videos are that you have come across those same articles from navweaps.com and the navel formula for armor penetration?
That flat bit now everyone is gonna aim for that yama sailors get cit and blames ichase for showing it lol
Heyo, really nice video, but i didnt understand how the colors work, yellow,green,red? How should i know if its good place to shoot? In WoT the green place means less armor>penetration, how is it in WoWs? Thanks!!
It works like a weather map the more it's green the less it's armored, the more it's red the more it's armor, you have the scale on the right
Blue
Blue is thinnest armour, red is thickest armour, but typically the thickest armour covers the citadels. I'll go into the specifics for hitting citadels during another Captain's Academy episode in September :)
Oh, alright, awesome! Many thanks!! ♥
Welp, so the RN cruisers better have excellent concealment to compensate. And the not-OP smoke.
If they get hit though...ouch
I feel like the T10 British cruiser is going to be the ultimate HE spammer, probably with Atlanta reload but with 152mm
all brits have 152s or 6in guns and it has 10 with i think it was leaked 3.7sec reload
if that reload is right they better give them some arcs/slow shell speed or it's going to be a Khabarovk on steroids.
british cruisers starting at tier 5 have smoke
it has Cleveland arcs
why they are not including magazine as part of citadel in some ship, is the armour viewer not finish or they done it on purpose?
There's talk on the forums that magazines for 6 inch guns aren't modeled as citadels, while magazines for 8 inch guns and above are.
Montana BTFO 2: Electric Boogaloo
I hate World of Warships, but i still love your content. Keep up the great work.
Let's give the t9-10 weak citadels with the deadliest AP in the game flying at it. I'd love to see how they balance that especially if they have 6in guns.
If you penetrate anywhere in the citadel armor box (ie. not just the areas you outlined in a previous video) it is a citadel right?
Excited for this to come out to the live server!
Yes, that should be correct
Unfortunately citadels can be overpenned. I just went into Training Room with my Iowa, set up 3km from a stationary Omaha, broadside on of course. And shot at the citadel area as outlined. The only damage I did was overpens. Not a single citadel. And it isn't as if the shells actually hit outside the citadel hitbox (well a couple probably did due to dispersion). The waterline under the funnels was pockmarked by 16 inch shell impacts.
I specifically chose Omaha for it's extensive above water citadel, it's known citadel protection issues. Hitting an Omaha's citadel is not hard at all, having killed plenty in my Grem with citadels it is pathetically easy.
This is so easily reproduced that there can't really be any discussion. Citadel hits can indeed turn into overpens. What will be a citadel for a Grem will be an overpen for an Iowa in this case.
Really? So the best anti-BB move for the Omaha is getting close, not angling at all and hope for overpens? But would it work with tier V BBs?
SheepWaveMeByeBye Yes it does work against low tier BBs too. I just picked the Iowa as a more extreme case.
It isn't something you can easily manage. You need to get rather close, and even once there the BB 'just' need to hit the water a bit ahead of the Omaha, and the shell will be slowed down enough to explode inside the citadel.
Citadel overpens are a clear possibility, but I wouldn't say it is something you can easily play for.
This is why you will sometimes run into very good players being very salty about this, as it essentially protects the absolute derps, while it punishes the good cruiser players (as frontal citadel hits will always result in actual citadel damage, due to the length the shell travels inside the hitbox).
Besides, the Omaha will want to turn at some point in any case to launch torpedos, so it isn't that far from the usual practice of engaging a battleship close up.
But if you find yourself 5km from a battleship, feel free to try it out. There is nothing guaranteed about trying it.
You will get me sunk, good sir, because I must definately try that! Thanks for the tip, never thought about using the overpen mechanics like that.
well you were pretty concerned about HE spam from british cruisers in the other vid rigth?
Oh God... those Royal Navy high tiers look like they're going to be a joke with that armour profile and the proliferation of BB's. Even if they can hide in smoke it won't help them with all the enhanced German hydro-acoustic search and radar :(. They'll get lit up like a Christmas tree.
Would be great if they finally put the gun penetration stats into the damn game. They're obviously there since the game uses some numbers for penetration calculations so why don't we see them in the ship info panel in port?!
Now. Yamato isn't sound scary anymore. German T10 now is a new nightmare.
DD's love to shoot oversized German sausages.
Renzu ZG Lel. I tried German T10 on Test Server. . I take vigilance and manual secondary and aa. 10km secondary range. DD took a lot of secondary damage . Shima once fire like 30 torps at me and only 1 hit.
If you get caught close German BBs they are very resilient. Further away they do take heavy damage by long range shells. They also burn nicely (sadly).
so @ichasegaming after this video showing the armour on us BB'S especially on the Montana why would I even bother with us battleships when there are two better options right now
What's the tirpitz armor layout?? I keep overpenning it with my Dunkerque
basically Bayrns
look at the bismarck's, same ship
Hmm, don't think Montana is historically armored correctly in game then... It had multi decks of deck armor to trip shells fuses and then take the blast..
Plus her armor was designed to stop the super heavy 2700 pound shell fired from her own guns.
The top layer was thinner, but they had layers.. not being shown. They did not design the vitals to be easily penetrated.
I wonder how thick thoughts armor decks where ?
montana was never made, but yes i know what you mean. WG hates us lol worse cruisers worst battleship worst aircraft carier. you just get used to it
well worst tier 10's that is besides gearing
How about the Japanese BB's in comparison by the same tier? None of them were shown...
I did the Yamato...