World of Warships - Captain's Academy #30 - AP or HE
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2016
- Episode 30 of Captain's Academy deals with the all important question of AP or HE? When should you use what and which ships should use what? Well if you have these questions, then this Captain's Academy has the answers. So sit back, relax and enjoy everybody :)
If you have questions, please leave them in the comments section below.
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My favourite situation with regards to ammo is when I'm in a USN DD and a cruiser gets close and shows a broadside. AP will absolutely melt them. With the high rate of fire you have, you can actually out-damage them (although be mindful that you've got a lot less health to begin with).
Thanks for this. Just started playing and I was struggling. I've a much clearer idea of what to do with destroyers now.
Excellent series ! Thorough explanations and demonstrations.
Chase - really, really good video. I learned carriers from you in Alpha (and blew you up a couple of times :) - these last few videos about detailed game mechanics are really good! Great job and keep it up!
Ichase could you show how much water stops the shells, how far away from the waterline you can fire?
unfortunately we don't know that, it's going to have to be something you play test
+iChaseGaming play testing, game mechanics knowledge and learning from gameplay experience seems to be something too hard for a lot of people and beacuse of that start being crybabies and blame cheatting or modding to be the cause of their missery. I feel sad for those people... (btw this statement has nothing to do with the other guy's comment)
It all depends on fuse timer, which is .3 seconds for most but is .1 seconds for most British ships. So just slightly underwater for non British ships, but you just can't do that with British ships.
One thing missing from here is plunging fire. If you're in even a light cruiser, you can sometimes get good penetration damage even on battleships firing AP if your target is at the edge of your range. The German cruisers are especially good at this, particularly the Konigsburg. You won't get citadels, but you'll get lots of consistently good hits. I did 140K damage in a recent game with a Konigsburg and almost all of it was with long-range AP shots on BBs.
Thanks for the vid. Complete shells overview!
If you are in a bettleship fire AP at another battleship
Conkek: *laughs in british
very good video! should be a mandatory watch!
Good job Chase! (as usual)
Stalinium shell OP confirm pen BBs from 14 km no problem
Where's the W23 63kiloton nuclear shell for the 16" US guns? lol It was a real thing, the Iowas carried them just after WWII. :D
Very helpful, thanks for sharing.
You're welcome
Is there a training room I can go to to practice my aiming? How do you get to this area where you are making this video?
@Gaming Git can I find it on world of warships blitz ?
Yes you can unlock the training room in rank 15
Hey iChase. Do you think you could do a video on HE shell functionality? I am talking about their penetration mechanic, fire chance (and how it's reduced) - that sort of stuff. Great vids man.
This was really helpfull!
Hey Chase!
i would be interested into a vid about "plunging fire".
would it be possible to come up with numbers regarding pens and such?
btw, great vids! seen alot of em.
Could we expect another video on ships that are suitable for Ranked season 5, that is expected to start early october? I belive it will be tier 5 and tier 8. Take care Chase!
Hey chase can you do a video on how to get the training room for world of warships please
(1) In a Cruiser; arent my shells plunging straight down at realy long ranges? Should i use AP and be able penetrate all ships since the deck is always lightly armored?
(2) If i aim for the deck, does the angle of the enemy ship matter at all?
lol for a general overview this is quite good. Some ships however even for DDs you can fire AP at them (overpen deck armor in US 127mm guns ay lmao) if you know where to shoot. Still well done
Good video, but in that broadside demonstration against battleships, what about if you're targeting something like the Großer Kurfürst?
When you see a charred low health DD, AP can be better since overpen ignores module's health so you can avoid those annoying 0 damage HE salvos on low health DDs.
When I do run into broadside showing cruisers in my Yamato, these days I get overpen most of the time :(
When that happens, just shoot the water near its hull and let them savor the salt-infused AP of yours.
Not easy to achieve that against swirling CAs at range, more likely for shells to miss completely.
+Renzu ZG Hahaha, that seasalt infusion before penning their citadel :D nice one
BB also can shoot HE to those german BB secondaries, to help your CV and DD.
Are you going to give a ship review of the Konig Albert, or a second glance at the Dunkerque?
Good video chase :)
Thanks :)
I usually start off with HE for those pesky DDs for when the get close (they're ALWAYS coming in first), then switch over to AP.
HE seems to do most damage, ap i use to try and destroy armor but HE seems to always outperform
Is there a difference where on the ship you should shoot AP and HE? I understand shooting AP at the water line or in the water but do I do the same when firing HE or do I shoot the superstructure?
in a BB at closer ranges against some cruisers do I literally aim just below the waterline, then?
Could you tell me two best cruisers for HE ? Between zao, Hindenburg, Moskva, Henri IV or petropavlovsk. When I compared them Henri IV and zao chance of causing fire are 9% so which is better to use ? I quite hate using AP and I like to play at long range
I usually use hp at long range due to if 1 shell hit it could cause a fire
how do you get to that bot only testing area
could you plz make a video on how to add music to the folder so that it plays in game, I keep trying to find it but cant
Chase, do you think now there is a British tech tree we will soon see another premium British battleship? if so, which would you like to see?.. Me personally, i'd like either HMS Prince of Wales or HMS Hood
Great explaining, though it's for me not really helpful. With a bit experience you have learned it by yourself. But for the newer players it's very useful.
Yup, this video is more helpful to newer players :)
Chase, any thoughts on this? One thing that still bothers me even after lots of time in both the Königsberg and Nürnberg is deciding when to shoot AP because the HE is so weak, and since the armor is so weak much of that shooting done from >10km.
That's a tough one, try shooting AP at superstructure. Otherwise, gonna have to use the poor German HE at range. Get Demo expert, it helps
I have DE and that's what I've been doing. I guess it wont get any better but I still love the Köni.
Thanks for the response!
In my experience, the AP is sufficient against battleships. Hitting the superstructure at range is a good way to rack up damage. At closer range (about 8km or so), the AP can penetrate the upper belt of BBs and occasionally citadel a weaker armored one like the Kongo. Aim around the casemate area.
Excellent video as always, but I'd disagree about the CL rules when it comes to german light cruisers. their HE is useless while their AP have damage per shell comparable to 203mm guns. I've been easily getting 5k damage salvoes against BBs with the nürn.
fyi, you forgot to mention shooting carriers in a battleship.
and fyi, when against Kuma, Cleveland doesn't care about range just go straight to AP =)
My personal strategy is to shoot AP against a carrier. Citadels on a carrier are still going to do massive, massive damage.
what are your thoughts on akizuki the new tier 8
Howd you get the bot mode
iChase, have you seen Flamu's Atlanta video? He VAPORIZED cruisers that showed broad with AP, it was kind of crazy... I'd love to see an Atlanta in your classroom :P
Something also worth considering is that Battleships (and T9+10 CAs) have heal... And that can heal light damage (HE, Fire, Flooding) pretty much all the way back up. So if you are the only one shooting HE at a BB (and you are in a DD or Cruiser), he will just heal it all back. So you might be farming damage this way, but your contribution is mainly towards giving the enemy ship "Dreadnought" and "Fireproof" achievements, not to actually winning the match ;-)
Always worth it to concentrate the HE spam of your team on 1 target and keep him on fire constantly, whereas with AP you generally try to shoot at the target which presents you with the best chance to get some high damage salvos in. With HE it's worth it to shoot at a target already engaged by your team, even when you have targets you could hit more easily.
This concentrated HE spam will then annoy the hell out of the enemy BBs. As a result they will be scared to push in and be the spearhead of any attack and resort to sniping in their future games. And slowly but steadily all the fun will be squeezed out of this game...
So yay, HE spam! Very effective, requires no skill whatsoever and destroys the gameplay, all in one neat package! That's what brilliant game design looks like :-P
I would like to see a video about the recommended captain skills for the german BB line :)
My recommendation: Basic Firing Training, Expert Marksman, Superintendant, Advanced Firing Training, Manual Secondary Control.
Furthermore Vigilance and Basic of Survivability, should you have an 18 point captain.
Thx mate :)
19:00 lol USN DD rainbows
What have you meant Ichase, when you said to shoot into the water when lightly armoured ship is close to you?
Way late but, when you fire slightly below the waterline the shell keeps going for a bit further and can penetrate below the waterline causing flooding.
Aye aye skipper! LOL
when im in my bb,i always shot ap,dont have time to switch all the time
i would say vs DDs in BBs use AP only u will do more damage and its more constant though less module damage
false u can destroy dd with one HE salvo
As for Russian DDs, at what tier is it safe to fire AP at broadsides? Like torpedoes, is it something only the higher tier ships have reliable access to?
At Tier 5 when you get 130mm gun.
In fact at Tier 5 it can easily citadel most met cruisers.
Especially Omaha is big floating citadel.
Though AP does more damage than HE with really any gun when you can get normal penetrations.
Where we can use this kind of game to test ships? We can't?
iChase i have a question.
So recently i have noticed alot of non-penetrations with HE especially in a ship like a Cleveland or a USN DD. I was stitting in a smoke screen in my Mahan and i was shooting at a colorado about 7km away with HE and i had something like 45 non penetrations. Is there a reason for this?
Every HE exept on german battleships have penetration caliber/6 for Mahan it is 21mm. On Colorado only superstructure have less armor.
German battleships have penetration caliber/4
HE damage is reduced by the amount of armor it hits. If the armor is very thick and the shell is very small, like Cleveland or USN DD shells, then the target ship will not take any damage from the HE. This is counted as a non-penetration.
You are probably shooting at the thick belt armor, close to the waterline. With HE, you want to avoid hitting this area.
You are too close, those shells might have hit the belt armor. Also colorado is pretty crowded with guns, bridge, and stuffs so shooting HE into the deck where it can deal damage is not the easiest thing to do especially in lower caliber guns where it has low splash area of effect.
tl;dr aim higher
Try shooting higher at the superstructure, which has less armour :)
+iChaseGaming I would like you to take another look at the german BBs, considering you were quite upset about the T9 and 10, but after playing them for myself for a couple weeks, I find them to be very strong.
maybe, but the special flavor of german BB is torpedoes and secondaries, so T8 is "the best" imo
+Giorgos Chatziioannou (Lezantas) Bismarck wont be able to charge the Yamato bow on without getting hit for like 15k, while the Kurfürst has 100mm of armor on the most part of its bow, which wont get penetrated by 460mm shells when angled.
zocki5 yes, but most of the time it will be against T8, which it can handle. or at least thats the theory, in practice i find T8 getting sucked in T10 much more often than eg. T7 to T9
if not for ranked, then i would not even play T8, the mm dont love me when i play T8 :/
+zocki5 Correction: Its only 60mm covering the large part of the bow, not 100. Sorry about that.
my ap round have a picture of a shield over it can I change that or not ???
What about hardened HE for cruisers and Destroyers?
Otherwise a good and informative video, but I found one thing badly lacking. When discussing choice of ammunition for battleships, there's a 20-30 second reload between making that choice and getting to shoot. In that time, not only might that destroyer have switched from being broadside to being bow in/out or vice versa, it might even have broken contact with you, maybe leaving you with the wrong ammo loaded for whatever there's left to shoot at.
For that reason, I've started sticking with AP even when there's destroyers around. But then, I'm currently playing German BBs that (unlike most BBs) do more than twice the AP than the HE base damage.
Oh yeah Ichase, what do you mean by aiming at the water?
In some cases where the enemy cruiser is too lightly armoured, you will overpen if you shoot at the waterline. If you shoot at the water, you can lower the penetration value of your shells, so that you wont overpen. Check Captain's Academy #28 to see what exactly i mean by this.
I don't get something, how are you supposed to do 100% shell damage then? Particularly with HE :S
Is there any historical reason as to why Soviet Shells have such a better Krupp rating than the other nations'? Is this actually how it was IRL or instead a gameplay, balancing factor to keep the ships diverse?
Oh, thanks a lot for these details.
What I use for Brittish cruiser?
The only shells they have is AP, except Perth
one question didnt they make all nations having same normalizations now? so 45 degres for usn to now it happpened 1 pach ago when german bbs were introduced
USN autobounce angle starts at 60 degrees, while all other nations start at 45
ok good to know i thought thats became the same since they made all normalizations for all nations the same
Dat Khabarovsk's fire rate tho ..oh my sweet Jesus O_o
And that's still worse than what the USN destroyers have (though they generally have less guns). The Fletcher and Gearing for example can have a reload time of 2.6s.
and that's precisely the reason why I'm grinding my way through the USN DD tech tree:) at T6 now.
+MetallicaLife4 you have crossed the National Society for the Preventation of Cruelty to Battleships. Prepare to be citadelled 10 times!
Except you can't citadel a destroyer. Sigh IQ of battleships...
Lmao, I have seen more then a few BB cap'n's rage in chat because of DD gameplay:D dont hate the player, hate the game^^
Why does the angle you use AP on depend on the nation? Didn't they set specific parameters on normalisation depending on the calibre? So that US ships don't have better normalisation than the other nation's ships?
Normalization isn't the only thing that determines which angles to be shooting AP at. USN ships typically (IIRC from iChases video) have better penetration on their 203's compared to IJN 203's, and better penetration means you can defeat higher angles.
Kelkuza
okay, now I feel stupid for not seeing the obvious...thanks :D
No problem. All this stuff is pretty complicated (took me a pair of videos to figure this out).
Kelkuza
I knew the penetration mechanics, armor angling, overmatching, normalisation, etc. already from WoT, but - as you already pointed out - it is in fact quite complicated so that you sometimes forget the simple and obvious basics, like in my case ;-)
SKILL POINTSSSSSSSSSSSSS AND US VS GERMAN VS IJN BB LINE
lol waifu references for DDs ... Chase has been watching too many atsf videos!
I swear the Khab is op in every way possible Ap/He speed and decent torps
You can basically see it from one end of the map to the other tho.
who else has been playing a BB, spotted a broadside on cruiser and accidently fore HE?
Usually happens to me during the first game I ever play in a new BB since they come with HE loaded if you haven't switched xD....But other than that I never even load HE on my BBs....no use unless I know for a fact that the only thing I'll encounter going forward are DDs :P
Happened a lot to me when switching back from torpedos. Now it's sometimes the other way around and I select AP on my DDs.
all the time
Was in my Nikolai one time and just firing my guns wondering why am I doing so little damage. Looked at the bottom of the screen to find that I was firing HE for half the battle.
Was in my Nikolai one time and just firing my guns wondering why am I doing so little damage. Looked at the bottom of the screen to find that I was firing HE for half the battle.
But how can u replace your waifu lol
Coment of the vid love it
How did u play in those games against bots?
i choose HE
Cuz pen is high and can almost pen BB
Still looking for the playlist in the discription of the video :D
Once I'm done the entire revamp I'll put the completed playlist in the video description :) should be roughly a month from now
Alrighty :P
What about the crappy HE on German CL's, don't they promote more AP use?
It's weird to hear "delete" instead of kill
make a video with low tier ships for a change.
What does waifu mean?
Maybe its me, But US 5 and 6 inch HE has become very ineffective. It may not have ever done massive damage but since 5.10 all these rounds do is splatter on the armor at all ranges. Had an Atlanta game. and it was perfect setup, I'm hidden behind island and had a Tirpitz in range and couldn't shoot me so I lit him up out of all the hits I score probably 80 percent were stopped by his armor, and i was well over a 100 hits on him. I barely scratched him till i finally set some fires. Thats the worst I've seen but its been like that with all ships with those guns calibers.
Get demo expert, that's probably the most useful thing u can have
iChaseGaming def working on it
25mm plating is proof against up to 152mm HE.
Some New York or especially Wyoming simply takes huge amount of damage from rain of small caliber HE.
But try same against New Mexico and Colorado and you'll despair to do much of direct damage.
Especially when superstructure has so many AA guns that they'll eat half the hits to it.
In German BBs already Kaiser has good amount of areas proof against small caliber HEs.
how do you get that testing mode?
one will tell you ap and others tell you he... I sick to he most of the time and drop them all.
11:20 that can't happen anymore thanks to the MM changes
Just an example of running into lightly armoured ships, Omaha is just as valid of an example :)
I dont think so...today, I encountered two Kumas in a T7 match (driving the Scharnhorst myself). MM seems to be better, but there are goofs once in a while
Ichase - great video... but what about premiums DD? I mean Anshan and Lo Yang are easy as they are just copy-paste from other nations.... but what about Blyskawica? Should i use AP like in russians DD? I found that's possible to win artillery duel against cruiser with this DD, as long as they show you a broadside....
Kuma is T4, so if it divisions with a T5, it can get into T7 matches.
Similar rules, mostly HE but broadside AP :)
紙上談兵
戰場上敵人會移動的
這實驗根本沒幫助
How do I lock my turrets to one direction?
zocki5 Thanks man :)
+Chris Fokjohn No problem :)
+Chris Fokjohn How so? I use it a lot to see if anyone's shooting at me, much better than making my turrets turn in unwanted ways and slowing my next shot, or even worse, tunnel visioning.
Ross Malefactor Locking your turrets to look around is exactly the same as leaving them be in "free look" mode or whatever
For the 28cm of the Scharnhorst: The BB oder the CA Rule?
CA rule
1:10... well, for 1/3 of the bb players the usage rate of HE is at 100% - sad that this isn't even a joke lul
Nothing like 1/3. More like 1/6
What server are you guys even on...? Sounds like a...curious standard of player skill.... xD
Over in Asia server, it's irrelevant. Everyone shoots HE. Much to my annoyance
So that means you can abuse that and show them what AP does.
That's not really true, I see people spamming AP exclusively as well, which is even more stupid in my opinion, especially for cruisers. Nothing more frustrating than watching a cruiser fire AP at an angled battleship over and over again. Asian server players seem to be pretty decent in my book.
You say Yamato wrong XD
I liked the vid only because of the info - but the way you narrate is rushed and slurred sometimes
way too much information, im not at this level yet.
TL ~ Just HE burn everything. The Mechanics are fucked. Until they fix the HE Fire Bullshit, this game is fucking getting old. Just burn the B's
i didnt watch video, but wargaming ruins that game, i dont like it anymore, too complicated, no damage on HE, im angled in a NC and got CITA, no more for me, the game will die, i hate it more and more, all this aimassists and co, wargaming are bastards
git gud m8
lol go and play Hello Kitty online or minesweaper if you wanna simple gameplay. This game is oustandingly awesome both in gameplay and visuals
your name: LLLOOOLLLL.
Pisser
nothing to say to asses like you. aimassist, aimbot, red ball, tundra, anymore ? fuck off you ideot and cry more . tell you story to ideots. i dont have time for you.
You seem to be under the impression that most people cheat in this game.