@@ifeifesi What I don’t understand is that people seem to believe those hucksters. Jesse Duplantis reminds me of a used car salesman. These men are sociopaths. Todd something or other is another one.
Cessationists DO NOT deny spiritual gifts still exist! We do, however, deny the APOSTOLIC GIFTS, (laying on of hands for healing; speaking in tongues; raising the dead; commanding demons), have ceased! We do believe that miracles still happen! We do believe that the HOLY SPIRIT endows believers with certain gifts, (not Apostolic), to benefit the body of believers.
Paul said Do not forbid speaking in tongues. That is divisive. The bible said Mark those who cause divisions according to the true doctrine that we have been taught and avoid them. in Romans 16:17. Mark and avoid fellowship with people who think like this. Jesus also said "These signs follow those who believe. In my name they shall cast out devils, speak in new tongues, lay hands on the sick and they shall cover, raise the dead, etc..I'm a biblical continuationists. The bible is the final authority. If Jesus said it, I'm sticking with it.
I have found a church that lifts me up spiritually through the God's Holy scripture, not through a motivational speech. I am so thankful to my lord and Savior for this. Amen
Most insightful even better than your previous video on the subject. Loved what you said : The gift of the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. ' You made everything so clear to me now.
Hebrews 2:4 states “ God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will “. This is in reference to the previous verse, which speaks about the salvation of Christ, which was first announced by the Lord , and confirmed by those who heard him. That was the time God used these means to get the gospel of salvation out, we don’t need this confirmation today. This doesn’t mean God doesn’t do miracles today, but men cannot claim this authority.
Acts 4:12 Peter made it pretty clear that he did not do it on his authority… nobody no where ever healed anyone at will except for Jesus Christ himself. In 1 Corinthians 12 Paul states God gives the gifts as he wills… nobody possess one gift at all times that can be exercised as they please. therefore God is sovereign, and he wills people to operate in certain gifting at different times, to fulfill what he wills. That is the correct way to interpet spiritual gifts, not the whole they ceased, even though the Bible never says that not once, or even points in that direction.
@@alexking8802 And only a charlatan would attempt to do these on his own authority. It seems that you all are relegating those who move in the prophetic as doing just that, which is not right or fair. Everyone isn't a false prophet.
That’s not true at all. If someone is in a prophetic ministry, it simply means the Spirit of Gods moves on him, and he does that by the power of the spirit, which is what happens with all spiritual gifts. But that said person can not just say anything and it be prophetic. The spirit must move on him, and thus it must be subjected to the spirit of the prophets, which is the word of God. That is what Peter described prophesy as, 2 Peter 1:21
@@jalapeno.tabasco if Peter did, then why did Jesus have to cast the did out because he couldn’t? There is no such teaching in all scripture… Mathew 17:19
The understanding of “cessation” isn’t new. There was a “cessation” for 400 years between Malachi and John the Baptist. So it’s probable that there’s another “cessation” between the apostle John and the coming of the 2 witnesses.
@@Jude1ministries first time signs and wonders are mentioned: Moses, the first Scripture writer last time signs and wonders are mentioned: the apostles, the last Scripture writers God's miracles are tied to His covenanting/revelation to His people, first with Israel, than with all nations thru Jesus God does not do anything randomly or arbitrarily
Christ confirmed Isaiah and Malachi's prophecies about an end-time Elijah in Matt. 17:10-11. Christ said that this man was supposed appear before the Tribulation. This same individual was also prophesied to preach the true gospel of the Kingdom of God around the world before the end of the age(Matt. 24:14). So no, it's not probable at all that God would cease sending prophets between the end of the first century and the 2 Witnesses.
Paul Washer says he's a "practical cessationist," which I actually ascribe to more than regular cessationism. Mostly because the things we see in modern pentecostal and charismatic churches are not what is seen in scripture. My now 6 month old daughter was healed from a very severe pulmonary hypertension issue at birth, where she was the sickest baby out of nearly 100. God brought her through, and with the help of a wonderful medical team, she is now just about on par with other babies with her development.
I suspect that a "practical cessationist" and "biblical continuationist" are the same thing. Just depends on the lens one is looking through. I could call myself either, tbh.
YES, I believe that miracles, prophecy & the gifts of the spirit are still for today. You know why? Because the Bible doesn’t say that they wouldn’t be for today. At least I haven’t seen it. If it does, prove it.. People that don’t believe that prophecy,miracles, gifts of the spirit are for today, are simply operating. in UNBELIEF. Matt.13:58 is an example of why many people don’t receive miracles today(unbelief). And the same goes for those that don’t receive prophecy or operate in the gifts of the spirit.
Honestly, I wish I hadn't learned about the majority of these terms and issues Christians debate today. I had more faith and stood stronger in my belief before went down the rabbit hole of hypercharismatics, WOF, and NAR. The "demon slayers" belief that Christians can be possessed by demons has created a wedge in my marriage that I'm not sure we will ever come back from. Stick to the firm foundation, read the Word, and love the One Who is the Word. There's no need to complicate it.
My issue: The Holy Spirit was sent to glorify Jesus. Most claiming 2nd baptism does the opposite. It is all about self. "I" speak in tongues, "I" am a prophet, "I" see visions, do miracles, etc. The Holy Spirit testifies of Christ through the written word. The Acts 2:38 "proof text" is contrasted by Acts 2:41, Acts 4:4, Acts 6:7, Priests, Acts 8:38, Ethiopian Eunuch, Acts 17:32, Mars Hill, with no "confirming signs" or outward signs. The sign of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life is a changed life. God does miracles. I believe He can do whatever He wants. I simply don't believe the "sign gifts " have been residing in individuals since the time of the Apostles. Oh, and BTW, Acts is a descriptive text, NOT prescriptive text! If you kids don't know what that means, you may be in for a shock. Sorry, one more: Genesis -Reveltion was written FOR we gentiles Romans-Philemon were written TO we gentiles!
I believe that the gifts of the Spirit are for today; however, I think that the only way to safeguard from many of the strange doctrines and practices in the Charismatic movement is to stay conservative. I listen to Dr. John MacArthur, Paul Washer, the late Dr. Charles Stanley, and the late R.C. Sproul.
John MacArthur said that in the 70s, he said you could HYPOTHETICALLY, and he has CHANGED HIS MIND AND CORRECTED HIMSELF. How about a little grace? Or are Calvinists not given grace?
I think we can ALL agree that we are living in the last days, I anticipate a highly concentrated dosage of TRUTH being injected into the body of CHRIST ridding us of our infections of misunderstandings and false doctrine. The Latter day CHURCH will be greater than the former in the book of ACTS. Complete with signs wonders and spiritual gifts.
i dont think the gifts have ceased i think the people that claim to have the faith to have the gift of the holy spirit just might not really be there if that makes sense. I hope someone gets what i mean. Im not trying to say everyone has ill intent but their faith just aint all the way there
Elephant in the room! Speaking in tongues is not blibber blabber. It is the miraculous gift of being able to speak in other languages. The babble is not right and you all know it.
Any video evidence of that? Or at least have you heard of someone performing this miracle? The answer is clearly no. In order to have the faith to perform on such a massive gift, like miraculously speaking another language you first take baby steps, which is to speak in tongues (angelic tongues), and then maybe you could perform the gift of human tongues. but we can’t even do that now with this faithless and powerless church.
@@danielcanepa-ehalv nonsense. Baby steps imply learning. No one in scripture learned tongues. It was miraculously given to them by God. No practice, no teaching, no learning.
@hayeschrist1 ◄ 1 Corinthians 14:2 ► For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries In the spirit he speaketh mysteries.-The utterances come, not from his mind, but from his spirit, stirred by the Holy Spirit; and he speaks mysteries unintelligible to others. (Per Ellicotts Commentary for English Readers.
Question for Cessationists: Did the spiritual gifts seize before or after the book of acts? Or maybe it seized after 1 Corinthians 12? The burden of proof is on you. Please provide chapter and verse where the gifts seizing is clearly described. If one cannot be provided then cessationist is a falsehood.
Paul also said on his deathbed that people would come to a place where they would be "holding to a form of godliness although they have denied its power; " (2 Tim. 3:5) It is the Holy Spirit that gives believers the "dunamis" Paul refers to here. That is in concert, not competition with sound doctrine, but there is nothing in the passage negating that the power would be expressed as it was in Galatians 3:5 " Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith-" "
Interpreters do provide a benefit. The interpreter communicates what is unknown to another. The combination of a language unknown to the speaker, interpreted by someone who knows the language, provides edification to the body following the principle of "a witness requiring two". There is a position by which one can require a known language requiring an interpreter.
I'm also a Biblical comtinuationist. I remembers a Mr Rivera that was healed of cancer by prayer. Also because my Father was thanked for preaching in Spanish by a man who spoke no English and was saved yet father preached in English and knew no Spanish.
Prayer is how we are asked to heal those whom are ill so that isn’t a cessationist position. Believing that someone like Benny Hinn and others has super natural power to heal when there is no record that he has ever healed anyone.
@masteranycraft,whether you or mcarthur or anyone else likes it,at one time Benny Hinn walked in God's Annointing,I was there and saw people HEALED.Benny didn't work those healing miracles,The Lord did the healing he just happened to use Benny's laying on of hands,actually The Lord could have used anyone and these days he does.Years ago one of my children was real sick in the middle of the night,there was no doctor or medicine around and no elder of the church,I laid hands on her and commanded the high fever to leave and it did,one reason for that I had authority in my daughters life,in Mark 16:18 it says you shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover,if I'm sick I'm gonna lay hands on my self and rebuke that illness,it's definitely biblical,there have been times I have been healed other times I had to go to doctor and medicine healed me,whichever way my healing comes I'm THANKFUL.
Brother Corey. I cring every time I hear someone include the fact that the Holy Scriptures only mention a doctrine once, as a reason to minimize or reject a biblical doctrine. I am going to make a long statement. If you will, please either respond with "True" or "False", then elaborate: In 1 Corinthians chapter 12, we are taught by the Holy Spirit, through the apostle Paul, that possessing and demonstrating the "Gifts of the Spirit" is an important Part, not THE PART, which is the "Fruit of Spirit", but an important Part, of what identify a person as a member of the Body of Christ. (Now I am not emphasizing any particular gift, but rather that a Believer is to possess and function in at least one, of ALL of the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians chapter 12, and that gift is a important Part of what identifies them as being a part of the Body of Christ). God Bless Pastor K. L. Greene
Yes sometimes both sides ….are a little bit over the top….I really enjoyed the Strange Fire conference…10 years ago or so….but I still thought that they panted all charismatics with the same brush….and that is a little unfair…..I guess I would fall in the Biblical gifts position…if I see gifts that are obviously biblical which truly glorify God and bless his church than I except these all heartedly….but even when was admit I didn’t see much that I would say fell into this category…. even in my own ministry, I have doubts whether some of the things I would’ve said were sign gifts were in fact not….. I do believe that Holy Spirit is proudly working in his church today and he does still do miracles and he still does heal….. at the same time saying the greatest miracle is still salvation
I laugh at how Western Christianity can find all kinds of reasons to start a disagreement, even when we have no biblical doctrine to stand on. The modern church is full of false prophets who want no one to challenge them. On the other hand, we have religious folks who have no level of interaction with the Holy Spirit, personally or in their congregations. What I love about the Bible is that it is clear on the work, gifts and power of the Holy Spirit in the body of Christ. Some folks just need the signs and wonders, even when they have never experienced any of the things they claim.
i agree in the west its the spirit of religion same spirit that crucified jesus is the one dominant here we have the form but deny the power same reason the church is dying is fruitless these so called teachers are proof of that...
From what I can tell … There are seasons , just like the pattern after Christ Glorification…. Pentecost Season of signs n wonders , straight preaching seasons , learning n building up seasons , Rebuking n exposing season …. Problem is we want to STAY In The season that best fits OUR OWN Personal strengths, preferences or Experiences
No one has the "gift of _____". You don't own it nor do you have a monopoly on any "gift". All of the gifts are bundled in the spirit as He will he will manifest what is needed to minister, evangelize or edify. That manifestation is what we call "gifts"
Many Continuationists seem unwilling to be thoughtful; instead, they often pursue their own desires, driven by ignorance. It’s important to pay attention, even if you disagree first understand then engage. The arguments I have heard so far from their side are just not thoughtful, and proves that they do not want to learn.
@hayeschrist1 saying "what about these guys" doesn't magically absolve you of your own unbiblical practices >cessationsist have their views and don’t want to change even if the Scriptures don’t align with their views< which views of cessationists don't align with Scripture? what you mean to say is they don't align with YOUR personal interpretation >cessationist will say that praying in tongues is bad< yeah, we are simply repeating Paul, praying in tongues doesn't edfy the church ,therefore it's wrong >tongues is just a known language< it is, Acts 2 sets the paradigm, you ignore what the bible says and inject your own meaning by experience
Your comment about it being stupid to argue with a Cessationist for not prophesying reminds me of when I was up front in a church during a call for prayer, and the pastor was walking down the line of people kneeling and, looking around me, I could see people were falling over “slain in the Spirit”. When he got to me he kept pushing his hand harder and harder on my forehead trying to knock me over. 🤦🏻♀️ He gave up and came back twice, now with church members coaxing (pulling) me backwards, before finally giving up.
What does verse 32 and verse 19 mean in these passages of Scripture? 1 Corinthians 14:31-33 KJV For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. [32] And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. [33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Thessalonians 5:17-21 KJV Pray without ceasing. [18] In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. [19] Quench not the Spirit. [20] Despise not prophesyings. [21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Doesn't verse 32 mean that the Holy Spirit can give a Believer to prophesy, but it is up to the prophet when or if they prophesy? Doesn't verse 19 mean that the moving of the Holy Spirit on a Believer to do or say something can be disobeyed or resisted by the Believer and not done or said? God Bless
Wow, first time watching. You stayed on topic, you pointed out hard truths and you said it’s stupid to say cessationists are sinning or heretical by not SEEKING the spiritual gifts because the Holy Spirit is the giver as he sees fit, that’s true. That is what scripture says. We don’t demand, he gives as he wills. I may have missed it but I didn’t hear you define what heresy actually means. People can be in error and not be heretics. Isn’t heresy teaching another gospel or another god? Believing in Continuationism or Cessationism isn’t the gospel therefore one can be error but it can’t qualify as heresy. God bless🙏✝️
My main question is this …. Is the term continuation the correct term …have the biblical gifts function for 1900 years….I personally don’t believe so…So maybe a better term would be ….for the last 100 years or so ….be renewal or revival of the gifts …
You're correct. Continuationist is a mis-nomer. They should refer to themselves as restorationists. Believing that the gifts have been restored in the 1800's unless, of course, they're claiming the late 2nd century heretical Montanism.
This is too easy. Peter was sent to the Jews and Paul was sent to the Gentiles. Where you learn rightly dividing and dispensations you see the old from the new. We are not Jewish under the law. Signs and wonders is secondary because we are in the age of grace. Not Jewish not under the law. You can't mix law with grace or you will have neither. It wasn't in the speaking but in the hearing
Corey, GRACE and Mercy and Forgiveness and Peace and LOVE be with you and your Family!!! Amen!!! You keep going after other people who confess Christ like a buzzsaw... WHY are you Not going after the Pope and his False Doctrine??? 🙏🏼
Knowledge Shall increase in these end times... GLORIFY the LORD JesusChrist... Amen!!! Falling Hurts, but how else can you be Born Again without going through the Fire for Sanctification, unless you the HolySpirit of Truth... Amen!
It's not a new phenomenon, it's just that the Roman Catholic church nearly snuffed out the fire of the Holy Ghost. It took how many years for the reformation? Now we are finally getting back to the true church as was in the 1st and 2nd centuries .
Corey believes the Apostles lineage ended when the gifts came on the scene with the Apostles that's why they need Apostles in their charismatic churches
Just a thought; why not instead of ppl using fancy terms to define them they stick to"Bible Believing Christian" meaning you believe and love the Word of God, nothing added and nothing taken away as Christian means Christ Like and thats the goal not denominations etc...too many of us are not aligned with the Word and focused on trivial things instead of getting dressed and ready for Christ Return
When the Holy Spirit comes over you, you can not stop it. When I was 18, I knew I needed the Holy Spirit before I went to college. I prayed for the Holy Spirit with ministers in the church and I began speaking in tongues I tried to stop it. I could not. The Holy spirit was going to talk through me regardless of what I wanted to do at the moment, the Holy Spirit was going to speak.
I mean well, 1 Cor 12 clearly reveals that the church of God of the NT is endowed with 9 gifts as a whole, different gifts given to different individuals from then till now as the church continues on. The signs confirm the gospel Mark 16, we do need to see the signs. It's obvious the gifts continue and that signs are to be done.
no, it simply says God had bestowed those gifts in the church during Pauls time >The signs confirm the gospel Mark 16, we do need to see the signs< so the miracles of the Bible isn't enough? you've completely just eisegeted that, God only needs to authenticate His messengers, they wrote it down for us, we know it's true you think the Bible is true only if you see a sign? you have to see to believe?
@@jalapeno.tabasco Not saying signs hv to be done all the time but that it is normal for it to be done by God through His people, thats what I mean. God will typically make His signs accompany the sharing of the faith in some way, form and time to show He's also a God of Power re healings, the gifts also, this is even obvious. The fact that we do not see "that much" today is because believers are sinning so God will not work through them that much or very little, He will not force Himself. God will also not necessarily do miracles 'independently' if there is no faith present. Thats the Bible. Also the Bible is clear that nowhere is it limiting the gifts to the 1st century, thats reading into the bible Bible eisegesis. Gifts cease at the end of time as it were, not 2000 years ago. Makes zero sense since the world still needs salvation, the gospel, miracles by God, before the return of the Lord. You've misread the scriptures and God's heart/plan. 🙏
@@GodsView1 >You've misread the scriptures and God's heart/plan< no, you've simply inserting your own meaning into Scripture because the miracles of the Bible aren't enough for you to have faith....
@@jalapeno.tabasco On the contrary there's no biblical evidence that shows the gifts ceasing in Paul's time, but rather a miscomprehension of scripture arrives at that belief. Joel 2 shows that for instance the prophecy gift resulting from the Spirit being poured out on all flesh, obviously 'all flesh' didn't occur only 2000 years ago which is why we see prophecy occurring today because new believers today are also receiving the pouring out of the Spirit today and are truly prophesying just like Acts 19.
@@GodsView1 Acts 2 was the fulfillment of pentecost, nowhere does it say "and everyone will prophesy forever until Jesus comes back" btw, wheres the I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. has this happened ?
Exactly - the fruit is greater than the gifts. I am a biblical continuationist but many "charismatics" neglect to consider this truth and over focus on the aspect which we have zero role in developing or manifesting. Scripture assures that the Holy Spirit gives to all who are truly born again at least one of His gifts but does so at HIS prerogative and in HIS timing.
I believe a gift can lay dormant because we are not walking in Christ etc and it can appear for specific times and circumstances....it's nothing to run after but we should chase Christ so wen we do we will be prepared for what He has for each individual
If tongues have ceased & prophesies have failed has knowledged also vanished away? See (1 Cor 13:18 KJV) < this is the only verse that can be used to support the cessation of tongues. I believe there are tongues that are not genuine & some that may be demonic but there are some that are also genuine.
As the old saying old. You.came to late now. I have seen miracles my pastor was death from birth and after 26 yrs the holy opened his ears and still is a hearing man
You keep saying that tongues are not used today but people speak different languages every day. I don't speak German but if I stand up in church and start speaking in German, that means the holy spirit is using me to speak German I've never learned that language.
There are those who have felt like they have been blessed by God with all the gifts,but Satan can duplicate gifts to make those delusional who believe they have the gifts through the five fold ministry,that's what I think.
Sounds like everybody is confused. I think the most important part of the scripture is that Jesus died for our sins, and He rose 3 days later to prove that He is God. He wasnt just a martyr, but He was God in the flesh. The Spiritual gifts are just the icing on the cake. Jesus chooses his apostles, but i dont know if He is still choosing His apostles. If the office gifts of the apostle, and prophet is done, then that would mean the office gifts of Teacher, Pastor and all of them are done. Because they sit under the spiritual authority of the Apostle, and Prophet. Im not in any form of Church leadership at all. But i did major in Theology at CFNI for 2 years, and graduated with my diploma. I don't think we are to go out seek people to heal, but rather when they see Christ in us, they come to us seeking healing. I don’t think what Benny Hinn does is right. But i will tell everybody this he preaches the gospel and the saving knowledge of our Lord, and Savior, and he gives people the opportunity to receive Jesus into their hearts at his rallies. So his ministry has won over millions of lives for Christ. I just dont like how he goes about manipulating people into thinking they are receiving healing. Or that he begs for money. Now that guy Kenneth Copeland i think God has given him over to his sin because his eyes change after he lies. And also Todd White i think hes trying, but he's not really lead by the Holy Spirit. And Joel Osteen preaches from the scripture, BET censors that out, and he also gives people opportunity everyweek to give their lives to Christ. But BET censors that to. Is he perfect no, hes a liberal, but so are a lot of other Christian pastors, they just don't talk about there political views. I'm a republican though. As far as Crefalo Dollar goes, I don't know that guy. Instead of arguing over who's point of view is right or wrong shouldn't we be about the Father's work of spreading the saving knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If it be threw telling people our testimony, or living a Godly life, and being a Godly example to the world. By having people seek Christ out through the Spiritual gifts that He bestowed to us, for by Him and through Him and to Him all things were created, drawing all men unto himself. For it is His will that all men should be saved. For His glory.
Partially agreed been to Joel Osteen event he DOES not preaches the full gospel . Is always based on prosperity and self centered theology he should be avoided . I agreed nobody knows , everyone argues their point only God knows , I believe in the gifts , I just don’t see what’s happening today in the local church the same as what was happening in scripture
I'm sorry Brother Corey but what else could 1 Cor. 14:1 mean? Just like in 1 Cor. 12:1 Paul introduces the chapter with "spiritual" stuff and then in both chapters goes on to spend the whole time talking about spiritual gifts! It is very bad exegesis to say that Paul introduces a totally different subject in verse 1, "spirituals", which he never expounds upon, and then suddenly, totally changes the subject to spiritual gifts, and then spends the whole of chapters 12, and 14 on spiritual gifts. Obviously, "spirituals'" in verse one, the introduction to the chapter, must be referring to spiritual gifts the subject of the chapter! (Same with chapter 12)
These folks faking gifts are so funny....Scripture supports Cessation of certain gifts period. Charismatics are bananas in scriptural knowledge...i see it everywhere.
I really don't care concerning cessationsim. What Angers me are Charismatics who try to rob their fellow brethren the Promise of Eternal Security of Salvation which is the sole basic of Joy. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. Luke 10:20
Prophecy, discernment are two things that are gifts that are important in the Last Days as you will need for knowledge to know what is to come etc and to warn others....yes there are false prophets but that is no indication on the fact that there are children of God that will be seeing visions n dreams in these Last Days
We should Not be Focused on the HolySpirit because His job is only to point you to the LORD Jesus Christ, so therefore, Focus/Call on the LORD Jesus Christ!!! Amen!!!
If the Holy Spirit moved on him to speak in tongues he would stand up and speak in a foreign language and someone will stand up and interpret what he said
Ephesians 2:20 having the foundation the Apostles and Prophets Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone….. If u suggest continuation, you suggest the canon is open
This is a bad faith argument, not to mention dishonest. The message being conveyed in Eph. 2:20 is that true Christianity is based on the writings of the prophets and apostles, along with Christ's own words. That is the foundation that every doctrine or belief must be based on. That is what it teaches, and that is what i believe. Nothing about that passage implies that a continualist has to believe the canon is open.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 if… and I’m just proposing “if” you argue that the “prophetic” and “apostolic” office has continued today, then you would also have to concede that their words aswell are from God and scripture.unless you have an objective standard to delineate the two
Today if you just say you are an apostle you are one 🙄if you say you are a prophet even if your wrong you are one - just start a you tube and take in the $$$$$$
Foundation already been laid by the Apostles some of these guys want to lay another Foundation and think too much of themselves. Study scriptures and you cant be fooled ❤
I agree with you but also understand that seeing something in scripture does not always mean it is for us to experience because certain biblical occurrences are merely descriptive. Cessationists also believe in miracles. They simply believe that the apostolic gifts have ceased because they had a specific purpose in the establishing of the Church during a specific time and have fulfilled that purpose. I am a biblical continuationist so I think certain gifts seen during the apostolic period can be manifested today at the Holy Spirit's prerogative. For instance, there could be a missionary in a remote jungle who needs to share the gospel in a language they do not know and the Holy Spirit may elect to suddenly impart His gift of tongues. I also think the Holy Spirit may even have someone lay hands on a person and bring miraculous healing in a UNIQUE situation that brings that person to saving faith. I even believe the true gift of prophesy has been demonstrated by SOME today. However, I believe these miraculous "power" gifts are imparted on an as needed basis. I agree with cessationists that we should not be seeing them regularly demonstrated in the Church. It should be clear to us that most tongue-speaking, prophesying, casting out demons, healing from the laying on of hands, ect. is being faked and in certain cases a demonic manifestation working through false teachers. They are never manifested in the way we see in scripture because they are not coming from God. This happens because many want to prove in a sensational manner (that points to themselves) that they have the Holy Spirit by demonstrating a gift. However, scripture teaches us to desire that our born again status be revealed through the development of the fruit of the Holy Spirit in one's character (which points ONLY to God) and which is a GREATER miracle. ❤
I'm the one from later on in the stream. I'm putting this here b/c there's no way for me to put an essay in the chat to describe everything I could possibly know about cessasionists. To let you and others know that I wasn't commenting off of emotion, but knowledge and yes-- GASP!-- experience. I'm not going to give my life's resume, but I'm fully aware that Scripture itself is prophetic/'FORTHtelling', and I LOVE that fact. I do NOT ONLY believe that prophecy is FOREtelling as seemingly suggested (as if I've relegated all prophecy down to that, as mentioned); with that, I DO believe prophecy CAN be foretelling, which is why I said that God speaks to us through dreams and visions. (God thru His Word also tells us to test the spirits). That point of mine went ignored. What is also ignored is that FACT by cessasionists. This is why I stated 'They deny the supernatural'-- because I have never heard them speak on the fact that spiritual gifts, revelation, etc. work through believers today. This is not in any way to deny the power of the Holy Scriptures, but just that God indeed speaks to individuals and gives words of revelations for them to share to others, including a corporate body. All I have ever seen them do is mock Pentecostals (I am-- Holiness Pentecostal, but primarily, a Christian, a follower of The Way), Charismatics (which I am not), and highlight false prophets. This is ALSO why I asked whether they've ever mentioned they believe in prophecy and questioned their belief in the power of the Holy Spirit to work in and through people b/c all they do is mock. This is ALSO why I asked those rhetorical questions in the chat re: how they even knew they were 'called' to preach or how they knew to marry their spouses? Was it just a logical decision, or did God speak to them about it? I wouldn't know it-- because again, all they do is mock. Meanwhile, people are searching for answers about the spiritual things of God, only to be met with answers from New Age sources. Instead of debating who's right, which will and certainly has been turning into a fight, how about providing actual answers on this instead of talking about what you dislike about Pentecostals and Charismatics? Furthermore, as I ALSO said in the chat, there are far bigger things to be discussing today anyway instead of who's the biggest heretic. People don't know who in the world they are today, but priority #1 for cessasionists seems to be attacking the spiritual gifts and yes, supernatural power of God.
1 Corinthians 13:8 "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away." Paul's point is Love > Spiritual Gifts, always. Love is the greatest fruit of the spirit. Do you LOVE your cessationist brothers?
Jesus was the final speaking of God. The Canon is closed. If God is still speaking to individuals today, should not at least part of it need to be immemorialized? Or is His Word just not as important today as it once was?
@@dubyag4124 1) Are you using the typical liberal's argument of 'you don't love XYZ group'? 2) The actual question, since you oddly brought up "love" is 'Do the cessasionist "brothers" love those of us who believe the spiritual gifts are for today?' Because they never show it, piously paint a broad brush of ALL of us (as 'smart christian' did here) as lacking biblical & theological sophistication, and have called US heretics. But, 'smart christian' took issue with ME calling THEM heretics, how I said it, and grossly generalized my comments & misjudged me because he has no clue who I am, what I know, and yes, what I've experienced. Just because I speak passionately about something doesn't mean that I don't have love. 3) 1 Cor 13:8 is an eschatological verse.
Cessationists do not deny the supernatural after all, God Himself is supernatural. What cessationists deny are the manifestations supposedly of the spirit such as prophecies that are tested and clearly false. Also prophecies that are so vague that they are clearly nothing more than a word salad. Prophecies within Scripture are not vague but specific and Scripture is clear that a prophecy that does not come to pass is clearly not of God. As for 'mocking Pentecostals', what is mocked are the ridiculous shenanigans of Pentecostals that impugn God's character like false miracles, prophecies, money grubbing in the name of God, and other undignified ridiculous activities we see in churches and pulpits frequently. You say that people are looking for answers and end up in going into the New Age. Interesting enough though it is more often the Pentecostal/Charismatics that bring New Age like practices into the Church. Speaking in false tongues for example is a practice found in Hinduism. Declarative prayer for example, another practice commonly found in Charismatic circles, is more akin to practices found in the New Age, specifically the manifestation practices of the Law of Attraction. There are 'bigger things to discuss' you say; but defending the integrity of Scripture from the false teaching and practices found in the Charismatic movement is exactly what Christians are commanded to do. False teaching & doctrines leads people away from Christ & to hell.
@@charlesgriffiths750 Who is trying to rewrite Scripture or add to it except for a heretic or charlatan? God has always interacted with His creation, and still does. He speaks to us in various ways, including-- and I would say ESPECIALLY thru Scripture. With this in mind, a (rhetorical) question for cessationists is, 'How in the world would we know this and accept that as real & true, that God is speaking to someone even thru His Word??' Why, let alone how, does the preacher preach??? How does any know what their purpose for living is (what they're to put their hands to) if God does not reveal it to them (perhaps, whether they realize it or not). When something in Scripture not only resonates with you, but speaks to your God-breathed spirit, causes you to change, causes you to 'somehow' think differently and act differently, that gives you (AS A PREACHER, MIND YOU, which 'smart christian' is) revelation to share with an individual or a congregation as a prophetic utterance (which I know he says he does not deny)...please enlighten me on how that happens apart from the powerful move of the Holy Spirit working in us! (Not yelling at you, just the general disregard in this video/livestream of this obvious concept). Cessasionists deny this, and it is nonsensical. I have even seen a lesser-known CZcams apologist on here say that there should be no deliverance services (for the demon-possessed). Maybe they should all witness a demon-possessed person and get back to everyone on if their ridiculous positions make sense. And while I am not Charismatic, I do believe that signs & wonders DO occur today as well; we're not to seek after them, and it isn't something that just happens at the flip of a switch. They prop up the "Benny Hinns" of the world and make them the poster children for the prophetic & spiritual gifts, and it's wrong. We have already known for decades that those people are false teachers, false prophets, and heretics. Okay, and? They literally made a whole documentary in recent months outlining their nonsense, as if this is problem number one in society. Total absurdity. That's the other upsetting thing about this discussion, which I'm sure would be pegged as 'besides the point'. It isn't. Again, I go back to my first statement, which 'smart christian' called silly, about them denying the supernatural. I stand by that, and it's true. They have offered no sound biblical explanation on what people need-- and what Scripture speaks of-- and that's to break through people's hardened hearts with God's Holy Word and help them see that He can and will lead & guide them TODAY. What's more, that someone speaking a Word to them might just be God sending that Word to them. (But again, we must test the spirits). Jesus said that He was sending a Helper to us to commune with us etc and teach us in all His ways...But, according to the logic of 'smart christian' and the cessasionists (sounds like a band), THAT shouldn't even be happening today. Someone could understandably misinterpret that passage as meaning He would be sending the Holy Spirit only to the ones He was speaking to. That's the sort of logic cessasionists use. The Bible isn't just a book of logical conclusions, like Greek philosophy or something; among many things, it is a supernatural text. It is a Living Text; a Living Word. That is what I was trying to get 'smart christian' to understand, as he cherry-picked my comments (debating ones he thought he could pick apart).
Great question! I’m looking into Orthodoxy - the ancient church. Orthodox churches tend to be rather ethnic and I’m Black, so I’m considering an OCA church with services in English. Question the assertion that the Church was heretical for 1500 years until Protestants popped up a mere 500 years ago. Study the church fathers. Pray and seek.
@@Bamifun East schismed from the West 1000 years ago, the Protestants were simply correcting errors of the Western church EOC has absolutely no room to talk lol
You're describing faith in an outcome or faith in the power of your own faith. Biblical faith is faith in the God who answers prayer according to HIS perfect will, regardless of the outcome. ❤
For me there is no debate, spiritual gifts are real, they are biblical and they are "available" to us today, the Bible even tells that we must pursue spiritual gifts like the gift of prophecy. I do not blame the skepticism because of the false christians that claim these gifts, but seriously there are real, and God works through people even today. And most importantly, this is Scripture based. Acts 2:17 "in the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."
@@jalapeno.tabasco1 Corinthians 14:5 Now I should like all of you to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. One who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues.
Cory you are in denial, "legitimate tounges"? Youngest are not for evangelism. Many people in the 1st century church are naturally bilingual. God gives tounges, when they first were given( Genesis 11:7-9), a whole city was named Babel because no one understood anything anyone was saying. God did that, right. Languages come from God,an infinite God ,who has infinite Languages. The Spirit gives utterance. Genesis 11 is proof that Languages when introduced by God can be unknown and called babbling.
I do not follow the argument of saying it is stupid to convince others on seeking spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues. First, at a minimum, what is wrong with graciously and gently trying to correct a brother’s understanding of scripture? Second, Jesus said in Mark 16:17, These signs shall accompany those that believe. Step one is you have to believe that there are gifts for the church. As long as you’re a cessationist, how will you receive what you refuse to believe for? Third, there were times in the Bible that a fellow believer laid hands on someone to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. (Acts 19:6). Paul was concerned about informing people about being filled with the Holy Spirit and laying hands-rather than just sitting around and waiting for the Holy Spirit to come upon them without their knowledge. Further, Paul’s teaching in Corinthians clearly shows that a believer has control on when and when not to use the gifts. So scripture does not teach that the Spirit imparts and operates gifts separate from teaching and believer interaction and cooperation.
> Second, Jesus said in Mark 16:17, These signs shall accompany those that believe. Step one is you have to believe that there are gifts for the church. As long as you’re a cessationist, how will you receive what you refuse to believe for?< so receiving gifts depends on your obedience/works? do you know what charism means? you think people can limit the Spirit? 😭😭😂😂 how weak do you think God is?
I think there’s a huge number of Charismatics who see things that aren’t real.
The Charismatics heavenly tourists being a prime example 🥴
@@ifeifesi
What I don’t understand is that people seem to believe those hucksters. Jesse Duplantis reminds me of a used car salesman. These men are sociopaths. Todd something or other is another one.
Exactly
Most haven't seen anything. Imagination and money induce.
@@larrytruelove8659 The age of the Apostate Church
Only true apostles were appointed by Jesus and no more because we do not add to scripture
That is absolutely correct. The church is built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. We don’t need a new foundation,which is Christ.
Amen, well stated.
Cessationists DO NOT deny spiritual gifts still exist! We do, however, deny the APOSTOLIC GIFTS, (laying on of hands for healing; speaking in tongues; raising the dead; commanding demons), have ceased! We do believe that miracles still happen! We do believe that the HOLY SPIRIT endows believers with certain gifts, (not Apostolic), to benefit the body of believers.
Well said, thank you!🙏
According to this definition that is still heretical
Paul said Do not forbid speaking in tongues. That is divisive. The bible said Mark those who cause divisions according to the true doctrine that we have been taught and avoid them. in Romans 16:17. Mark and avoid fellowship with people who think like this. Jesus also said "These signs follow those who believe. In my name they shall cast out devils, speak in new tongues, lay hands on the sick and they shall cover, raise the dead, etc..I'm a biblical continuationists. The bible is the final authority. If Jesus said it, I'm sticking with it.
@@KCRookie🤦 you have no idea what "heretical" means
@@REXS10mark 16 is the most disputed textual variant and you'll find no one alive today actually following it...
NOTICE HOW THESE “MIRACLES” ARE ALWAYS MONETARY OR HOW TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THIS WORLD, BUT NEVER ABOUT THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT. INTERESTING.
Concerning miracles being an indicator of salvation: The LORD said, “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Amen, well stated.
I have found a church that lifts me up spiritually through the God's Holy scripture, not through a motivational speech. I am so thankful to my lord and Savior for this. Amen
Most insightful even better than your previous video on the subject. Loved what you said : The gift of the Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. ' You made everything so clear to me now.
Hebrews 2:4 states “ God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will “. This is in reference to the previous verse, which speaks about the salvation of Christ, which was first announced by the Lord , and confirmed by those who heard him. That was the time God used these means to get the gospel of salvation out, we don’t need this confirmation today. This doesn’t mean God doesn’t do miracles today, but men cannot claim this authority.
Acts 4:12 Peter made it pretty clear that he did not do it on his authority… nobody no where ever healed anyone at will except for Jesus Christ himself. In 1 Corinthians 12 Paul states God gives the gifts as he wills… nobody possess one gift at all times that can be exercised as they please. therefore God is sovereign, and he wills people to operate in certain gifting at different times, to fulfill what he wills. That is the correct way to interpet spiritual gifts, not the whole they ceased, even though the Bible never says that not once, or even points in that direction.
@@alexking8802 And only a charlatan would attempt to do these on his own authority. It seems that you all are relegating those who move in the prophetic as doing just that, which is not right or fair. Everyone isn't a false prophet.
That’s not true at all. If someone is in a prophetic ministry, it simply means the Spirit of Gods moves on him, and he does that by the power of the spirit, which is what happens with all spiritual gifts. But that said person can not just say anything and it be prophetic. The spirit must move on him, and thus it must be subjected to the spirit of the prophets, which is the word of God. That is what Peter described prophesy as, 2 Peter 1:21
@@alexking8802Peter and Paul healed at will, no one can heal instantly and completely like they do, not even close
@@jalapeno.tabasco if Peter did, then why did Jesus have to cast the did out because he couldn’t? There is no such teaching in all scripture… Mathew 17:19
I've heard this term "biblical continualionalist" from you and I love it and stand by that statement. Thanks Corey love your content. God bless.
The understanding of “cessation” isn’t new. There was a “cessation” for 400 years between Malachi and John the Baptist. So it’s probable that there’s another “cessation” between the apostle John and the coming of the 2 witnesses.
don't forget the 400 years between Joseph and Moses
@@jalapeno.tabasco yep. I forgot about then too
@@Jude1ministries first time signs and wonders are mentioned: Moses, the first Scripture writer
last time signs and wonders are mentioned: the apostles, the last Scripture writers
God's miracles are tied to His covenanting/revelation to His people, first with Israel, than with all nations thru Jesus
God does not do anything randomly or arbitrarily
@@jalapeno.tabasco he does not I agree
Christ confirmed Isaiah and Malachi's prophecies about an end-time Elijah in Matt. 17:10-11. Christ said that this man was supposed appear before the Tribulation. This same individual was also prophesied to preach the true gospel of the Kingdom of God around the world before the end of the age(Matt. 24:14). So no, it's not probable at all that God would cease sending prophets between the end of the first century and the 2 Witnesses.
Paul Washer says he's a "practical cessationist," which I actually ascribe to more than regular cessationism. Mostly because the things we see in modern pentecostal and charismatic churches are not what is seen in scripture. My now 6 month old daughter was healed from a very severe pulmonary hypertension issue at birth, where she was the sickest baby out of nearly 100. God brought her through, and with the help of a wonderful medical team, she is now just about on par with other babies with her development.
I suspect that a "practical cessationist" and "biblical continuationist" are the same thing. Just depends on the lens one is looking through. I could call myself either, tbh.
So happy for your testimony.👼🏻
yeah, and God healed her, not Benny Hinn or some other "faith healer"
What a wonderful, balanced, SCRIPTURAL approach!!! Thank you!
YES, I believe that miracles, prophecy & the gifts of the spirit are still for today. You know why? Because the Bible doesn’t say that they wouldn’t be for today. At least I haven’t seen it. If it does, prove it..
People that don’t believe that prophecy,miracles, gifts of the spirit are for today, are simply operating. in UNBELIEF. Matt.13:58 is an example of why many people don’t receive miracles today(unbelief). And the same goes for those that don’t receive prophecy or operate in the gifts of the spirit.
Exactly it happens when Jesus Christ says it will and ppl should just leave it at that
P.S. I am not a Pentecostal, nor do I ascribe to Pentecostal theology. But really your exegesis is weak at this point.
Good bless you Corey. Without the word and the truth, im like blindfolded and clumsy.
And God bless you all brothers and sisters in Christ. Amen
I love you Corey you way too much knowledge for me not to listen, so please keep on teaching we are learning whether we receive it or not Amen
I don’t even know these terms. I grew up in the church and never heard these phrases until 3 weeks ago in my 30s. I’m totally lost lol
Honestly, I wish I hadn't learned about the majority of these terms and issues Christians debate today. I had more faith and stood stronger in my belief before went down the rabbit hole of hypercharismatics, WOF, and NAR. The "demon slayers" belief that Christians can be possessed by demons has created a wedge in my marriage that I'm not sure we will ever come back from. Stick to the firm foundation, read the Word, and love the One Who is the Word. There's no need to complicate it.
My issue: The Holy Spirit was sent to glorify Jesus.
Most claiming 2nd baptism does the opposite. It is all about self. "I" speak in tongues, "I" am a prophet, "I" see visions, do miracles, etc.
The Holy Spirit testifies of Christ through the written word.
The Acts 2:38 "proof text" is contrasted by Acts 2:41, Acts 4:4, Acts 6:7, Priests, Acts 8:38, Ethiopian Eunuch, Acts 17:32, Mars Hill, with no "confirming signs" or outward signs.
The sign of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life is a changed life.
God does miracles. I believe He can do whatever He wants. I simply don't believe the "sign gifts " have been
residing in individuals since the time of the Apostles.
Oh, and BTW, Acts is a descriptive text, NOT prescriptive text! If you kids don't know what that means, you may be in for a shock. Sorry, one more: Genesis -Reveltion was written FOR we gentiles
Romans-Philemon were written TO we gentiles!
I believe that the gifts of the Spirit are for today; however, I think that the only way to safeguard from many of the strange doctrines and practices in the Charismatic movement is to stay conservative. I listen to Dr. John MacArthur, Paul Washer, the late Dr. Charles Stanley, and the late R.C. Sproul.
Cessationist here.
From the BEGINNING to the END, there's no argument, the mystery has been REVEALED, CHRIST IN YOU, is the 'HOPE OF GLORY. Praise the LORD!!!
John MacArthur said that in the 70s, he said you could HYPOTHETICALLY, and he has CHANGED HIS MIND AND CORRECTED HIMSELF. How about a little grace? Or are Calvinists not given grace?
What is your thoughts on ecumenicalism and about Billy Graham?
10 pm est so what does 1 Corth 14:32 mean ? So if the spirit moved on a sensationist couldn't they quench the spirit
There are heretics on all sides. It depends on what they teach. Don't cast judgement on a group, rather judge the individual.
I think we can ALL agree that we are living in the last days, I anticipate a highly concentrated dosage of TRUTH being injected into the body of CHRIST ridding us of our infections of misunderstandings and false doctrine. The Latter day CHURCH will be greater than the former in the book of ACTS. Complete with signs wonders and spiritual gifts.
Exactly we are in the Last Days and the body of Christ is proving this by arguing about trivial things instead of getting ready for His Coming
@@msmichelle2196 just growing pains,we shall come to the unity of the faith, a mature CHURCH in the near future 🙏
The church is over 2,000 years old. And we are still having Disputations... which is unbiblical.
Love God, love ppl.
Flaws on both sides.
By the way thank you for the encuragement. I need it.
i dont think the gifts have ceased i think the people that claim to have the faith to have the gift of the holy spirit just might not really be there if that makes sense. I hope someone gets what i mean. Im not trying to say everyone has ill intent but their faith just aint all the way there
Elephant in the room!
Speaking in tongues is not blibber blabber. It is the miraculous gift of being able to speak in other languages.
The babble is not right and you all know it.
Any video evidence of that? Or at least have you heard of someone performing this miracle? The answer is clearly no. In order to have the faith to perform on such a massive gift, like miraculously speaking another language you first take baby steps, which is to speak in tongues (angelic tongues), and then maybe you could perform the gift of human tongues. but we can’t even do that now with this faithless and powerless church.
@@danielcanepa-ehalv nonsense. Baby steps imply learning.
No one in scripture learned tongues. It was miraculously given to them by God.
No practice, no teaching, no learning.
@hayeschrist1 ◄ 1 Corinthians 14:2 ►
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries
In the spirit he speaketh mysteries.-The utterances come, not from his mind, but from his spirit, stirred by the Holy Spirit; and he speaks mysteries unintelligible to others. (Per Ellicotts Commentary for English Readers.
There are different forms of tongues.
Question for Cessationists:
Did the spiritual gifts seize before or after the book of acts? Or maybe it seized after 1 Corinthians 12?
The burden of proof is on you. Please provide chapter and verse where the gifts seizing is clearly described. If one cannot be provided then cessationist is a falsehood.
Hopefully, they didn't seize at all.😂 But, they may have ceased.🤭
@@BobbiMac08that was just mean, bro. Hatin cause bro can't spell.😂
@@gerard4870 Words having meaning. Lol
Paul also said on his deathbed that people would come to a place where they would be "holding to a form of godliness although they have denied its power; " (2 Tim. 3:5) It is the Holy Spirit that gives believers the "dunamis" Paul refers to here. That is in concert, not competition with sound doctrine, but there is nothing in the passage negating that the power would be expressed as it was in Galatians 3:5 " Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith-"
"
Where can I find the only place spiritual gift is written in the Greek?
Interpreters do provide a benefit. The interpreter communicates what is unknown to another. The combination of a language unknown to the speaker, interpreted by someone who knows the language, provides edification to the body following the principle of "a witness requiring two". There is a position by which one can require a known language requiring an interpreter.
I'm also a Biblical comtinuationist. I remembers a Mr Rivera that was healed of cancer by prayer. Also because my Father was thanked for preaching in Spanish by a man who spoke no English and was saved yet father preached in English and knew no Spanish.
Prayer is how we are asked to heal those whom are ill so that isn’t a cessationist position. Believing that someone like Benny Hinn and others has super natural power to heal when there is no record that he has ever healed anyone.
@@Masteranycraftexactly. Way too many people think that cessationists don't believe that God still heals. We do without a doubt!
@masteranycraft,whether you or mcarthur or anyone else likes it,at one time Benny Hinn walked in God's Annointing,I was there and saw people HEALED.Benny didn't work those healing miracles,The Lord did the healing he just happened to use Benny's laying on of hands,actually The Lord could have used anyone and these days he does.Years ago one of my children was real sick in the middle of the night,there was no doctor or medicine around and no elder of the church,I laid hands on her and commanded the high fever to leave and it did,one reason for that I had authority in my daughters life,in Mark 16:18 it says you shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover,if I'm sick I'm gonna lay hands on my self and rebuke that illness,it's definitely biblical,there have been times I have been healed other times I had to go to doctor and medicine healed me,whichever way my healing comes I'm THANKFUL.
Brother Corey.
I cring every time I hear someone include the fact that the Holy Scriptures only mention a doctrine once, as a reason to minimize or reject a biblical doctrine.
I am going to make a long statement. If you will, please either respond with "True" or "False", then elaborate:
In 1 Corinthians chapter 12, we are taught by the Holy Spirit, through the apostle Paul, that possessing and demonstrating the "Gifts of the Spirit" is an important Part, not THE PART, which is the "Fruit of Spirit", but an important Part, of what identify a person as a member of the Body of Christ.
(Now I am not emphasizing any particular gift, but rather that a Believer is to possess and function in at least one, of ALL of the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians chapter 12, and that gift is a important Part of what identifies them as being a part of the Body of Christ).
God Bless
Pastor K. L. Greene
Yes sometimes both sides ….are a little bit over the top….I really enjoyed the Strange Fire conference…10 years ago or so….but I still thought that they panted all charismatics with the same brush….and that is a little unfair…..I guess I would fall in the Biblical gifts position…if I see gifts that are obviously biblical which truly glorify God and bless his church than I except these all heartedly….but even when was admit I didn’t see much that I would say fell into this category…. even in my own ministry, I have doubts whether some of the things I would’ve said were sign gifts were in fact not….. I do believe that Holy Spirit is proudly working in his church today and he does still do miracles and he still does heal….. at the same time saying the greatest miracle is still salvation
I laugh at how Western Christianity can find all kinds of reasons to start a disagreement, even when we have no biblical doctrine to stand on. The modern church is full of false prophets who want no one to challenge them. On the other hand, we have religious folks who have no level of interaction with the Holy Spirit, personally or in their congregations. What I love about the Bible is that it is clear on the work, gifts and power of the Holy Spirit in the body of Christ. Some folks just need the signs and wonders, even when they have never experienced any of the things they claim.
define what u mean by "no level of interaction with the Holy Spirit, personally or in their congregations"
i agree in the west its the spirit of religion same spirit that crucified jesus is the one dominant here we have the form but deny the power same reason the church is dying is fruitless these so called teachers are proof of that...
From what I can tell … There are seasons , just like the pattern after Christ Glorification…. Pentecost Season of signs n wonders , straight preaching seasons , learning n building up seasons , Rebuking n exposing season …. Problem is we want to STAY In The season that best fits OUR OWN Personal strengths, preferences or Experiences
No one has the "gift of _____". You don't own it nor do you have a monopoly on any "gift". All of the gifts are bundled in the spirit as He will he will manifest what is needed to minister, evangelize or edify. That manifestation is what we call "gifts"
Many Continuationists seem unwilling to be thoughtful; instead, they often pursue their own desires, driven by ignorance. It’s important to pay attention, even if you disagree first understand then engage. The arguments I have heard so far from their side are just not thoughtful, and proves that they do not want to learn.
I agree but you're describing those who identify as charismatics, not biblical continuationists.
@@WendieRenee Yes
@@WendieRenee I am sorry I did not make that clear.
@@UScholar_academic No worries - I suspected as much ❤
@hayeschrist1 saying "what about these guys" doesn't magically absolve you of your own unbiblical practices
>cessationsist have their views and don’t want to change even if the Scriptures don’t align with their views<
which views of cessationists don't align with Scripture? what you mean to say is they don't align with YOUR personal interpretation
>cessationist will say that praying in tongues is bad<
yeah, we are simply repeating Paul, praying in tongues doesn't edfy the church ,therefore it's wrong
>tongues is just a known language<
it is, Acts 2 sets the paradigm, you ignore what the bible says and inject your own meaning by experience
Your comment about it being stupid to argue with a Cessationist for not prophesying reminds me of when I was up front in a church during a call for prayer, and the pastor was walking down the line of people kneeling and, looking around me, I could see people were falling over “slain in the Spirit”. When he got to me he kept pushing his hand harder and harder on my forehead trying to knock me over. 🤦🏻♀️ He gave up and came back twice, now with church members coaxing (pulling) me backwards, before finally giving up.
What does verse 32 and verse 19 mean in these passages of Scripture?
1 Corinthians 14:31-33 KJV
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. [32] And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. [33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1 Thessalonians 5:17-21 KJV
Pray without ceasing. [18] In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. [19] Quench not the Spirit. [20] Despise not prophesyings. [21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Doesn't verse 32 mean that the Holy Spirit can give a Believer to prophesy, but it is up to the prophet when or if they prophesy?
Doesn't verse 19 mean that the moving of the Holy Spirit on a Believer to do or say something can be disobeyed or resisted by the Believer and not done or said?
God Bless
Wow, first time watching. You stayed on topic, you pointed out hard truths and you said it’s stupid to say cessationists are sinning or heretical by not SEEKING the spiritual gifts because the Holy Spirit is the giver as he sees fit, that’s true. That is what scripture says. We don’t demand, he gives as he wills.
I may have missed it but I didn’t hear you define what heresy actually means. People can be in error and not be heretics. Isn’t heresy teaching another gospel or another god?
Believing in Continuationism or Cessationism isn’t the gospel therefore one can be error but it can’t qualify as heresy. God bless🙏✝️
YESSIR THE GIFT OF THE SPIRIT HIMSELF IS THE GIFT AND ALL THE MAFESTATIONS, GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT, COME WITH HIM...
Gregg's a flamer alright.
My main question is this …. Is the term continuation the correct term …have the biblical gifts function for 1900 years….I personally don’t believe so…So maybe a better term would be ….for the last 100 years or so ….be renewal or revival of the gifts …
I get what you're saying. I identify as a biblical continuationist but think you have a valid perspective.
You're correct. Continuationist is a mis-nomer. They should refer to themselves as restorationists. Believing that the gifts have been restored in the 1800's unless, of course, they're claiming the late 2nd century heretical Montanism.
This is too easy. Peter was sent to the Jews and Paul was sent to the Gentiles. Where you learn rightly dividing and dispensations you see the old from the new. We are not Jewish under the law. Signs and wonders is secondary because we are in the age of grace. Not Jewish not under the law. You can't mix law with grace or you will have neither. It wasn't in the speaking but in the hearing
Corey,
GRACE and Mercy and Forgiveness and Peace and LOVE be with you and your Family!!! Amen!!! You keep going after other people who confess Christ like a buzzsaw... WHY are you Not going after the Pope and his False Doctrine??? 🙏🏼
HOLD HIS FEET TO THE FIRE!!! 🔥
Knowledge Shall increase in these end times... GLORIFY the LORD JesusChrist... Amen!!!
Falling Hurts, but how else can you be Born Again without going through the Fire for Sanctification, unless you the HolySpirit of Truth... Amen!
It's not a new phenomenon, it's just that the Roman Catholic church nearly snuffed out the fire of the Holy Ghost. It took how many years for the reformation? Now we are finally getting back to the true church as was in the 1st and 2nd centuries .
The early church was way more similar to the modern RCC than it is to any Protestant church.
Corey believes the Apostles lineage ended when the gifts came on the scene with the Apostles that's why they need Apostles in their charismatic churches
It depends how and who God want to use for whatever he wants meaning God
Just a thought; why not instead of ppl using fancy terms to define them they stick to"Bible Believing Christian" meaning you believe and love the Word of God, nothing added and nothing taken away as Christian means Christ Like and thats the goal not denominations etc...too many of us are not aligned with the Word and focused on trivial things instead of getting dressed and ready for Christ Return
Cessationists are the true heretics💯
You go to a charismatic church?
When the Holy Spirit comes over you, you can not stop it. When I was 18, I knew I needed the Holy Spirit before I went to college. I prayed for the Holy Spirit with ministers in the church and I began speaking in tongues I tried to stop it. I could not. The Holy spirit was going to talk through me regardless of what I wanted to do at the moment, the Holy Spirit was going to speak.
So, what did the Holy Spirit say? Was there someone there to translate for you?
I think it was only mumbling
I mean well, 1 Cor 12 clearly reveals that the church of God of the NT is endowed with 9 gifts as a whole, different gifts given to different individuals from then till now as the church continues on. The signs confirm the gospel Mark 16, we do need to see the signs. It's obvious the gifts continue and that signs are to be done.
no, it simply says God had bestowed those gifts in the church during Pauls time
>The signs confirm the gospel Mark 16, we do need to see the signs<
so the miracles of the Bible isn't enough? you've completely just eisegeted that, God only needs to authenticate His messengers, they wrote it down for us, we know it's true
you think the Bible is true only if you see a sign? you have to see to believe?
@@jalapeno.tabasco Not saying signs hv to be done all the time but that it is normal for it to be done by God through His people, thats what I mean. God will typically make His signs accompany the sharing of the faith in some way, form and time to show He's also a God of Power re healings, the gifts also, this is even obvious. The fact that we do not see "that much" today is because believers are sinning so God will not work through them that much or very little, He will not force Himself. God will also not necessarily do miracles 'independently' if there is no faith present. Thats the Bible. Also the Bible is clear that nowhere is it limiting the gifts to the 1st century, thats reading into the bible Bible eisegesis. Gifts cease at the end of time as it were, not 2000 years ago. Makes zero sense since the world still needs salvation, the gospel, miracles by God, before the return of the Lord. You've misread the scriptures and God's heart/plan. 🙏
@@GodsView1 >You've misread the scriptures and God's heart/plan<
no, you've simply inserting your own meaning into Scripture because the miracles of the Bible aren't enough for you to have faith....
@@jalapeno.tabasco On the contrary there's no biblical evidence that shows the gifts ceasing in Paul's time, but rather a miscomprehension of scripture arrives at that belief. Joel 2 shows that for instance the prophecy gift resulting from the Spirit being poured out on all flesh, obviously 'all flesh' didn't occur only 2000 years ago which is why we see prophecy occurring today because new believers today are also receiving the pouring out of the Spirit today and are truly prophesying just like Acts 19.
@@GodsView1 Acts 2 was the fulfillment of pentecost, nowhere does it say "and everyone will prophesy forever until Jesus comes back"
btw, wheres the
I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
has this happened ?
The true miracle is the finished work of the Cross & the Resurrection. What did Jesus say the role of the Holy Spirit was to be in the new Covenant?
Once again practice developing the fruit of the Spirit, and he will give you the gifts of the Spirit
Exactly - the fruit is greater than the gifts. I am a biblical continuationist but many "charismatics" neglect to consider this truth and over focus on the aspect which we have zero role in developing or manifesting. Scripture assures that the Holy Spirit gives to all who are truly born again at least one of His gifts but does so at HIS prerogative and in HIS timing.
Someone who's an evangelist stands more likely to operate in the gifts of the Spirit than the minister or preacher or a teacher
I believe a gift can lay dormant because we are not walking in Christ etc and it can appear for specific times and circumstances....it's nothing to run after but we should chase Christ so wen we do we will be prepared for what He has for each individual
No Charismatic on CZcams has shown a miracle or healing thats provable.
Catholics have miracles all the time.
If tongues have ceased & prophesies have failed has knowledged also vanished away? See (1 Cor 13:18 KJV) < this is the only verse that can be used to support the cessation of tongues. I believe there are tongues that are not genuine & some that may be demonic but there are some that are also genuine.
As the old saying old. You.came to late now. I have seen miracles my pastor was death from birth and after 26 yrs the holy opened his ears and still is a hearing man
I am so glad I have never sent Kolenda a single dollar!!
You keep saying that tongues are not used today but people speak different languages every day. I don't speak German but if I stand up in church and start speaking in German, that means the holy spirit is using me to speak German I've never learned that language.
When did I say tongues aren't used for today? Please pay attention.
There are those who have felt like they have been blessed by God with all the gifts,but Satan can duplicate gifts to make those delusional who believe they have the gifts through the five fold ministry,that's what I think.
I believe Daniel was a spiritual son of Reinhard Bonnke
Sounds like everybody is confused. I think the most important part of the scripture is that Jesus died for our sins, and He rose 3 days later to prove that He is God. He wasnt just a martyr, but He was God in the flesh. The Spiritual gifts are just the icing on the cake. Jesus chooses his apostles, but i dont know if He is still choosing His apostles. If the office gifts of the apostle, and prophet is done, then that would mean the office gifts of Teacher, Pastor and all of them are done. Because they sit under the spiritual authority of the Apostle, and Prophet. Im not in any form of Church leadership at all. But i did major in Theology at CFNI for 2 years, and graduated with my diploma. I don't think we are to go out seek people to heal, but rather when they see Christ in us, they come to us seeking healing. I don’t think what Benny Hinn does is right. But i will tell everybody this he preaches the gospel and the saving knowledge of our Lord, and Savior, and he gives people the opportunity to receive Jesus into their hearts at his rallies. So his ministry has won over millions of lives for Christ. I just dont like how he goes about manipulating people into thinking they are receiving healing. Or that he begs for money. Now that guy Kenneth Copeland i think God has given him over to his sin because his eyes change after he lies. And also Todd White i think hes trying, but he's not really lead by the Holy Spirit. And Joel Osteen preaches from the scripture, BET censors that out, and he also gives people opportunity everyweek to give their lives to Christ. But BET censors that to. Is he perfect no, hes a liberal, but so are a lot of other Christian pastors, they just don't talk about there political views. I'm a republican though. As far as Crefalo Dollar goes, I don't know that guy. Instead of arguing over who's point of view is right or wrong shouldn't we be about the Father's work of spreading the saving knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If it be threw telling people our testimony, or living a Godly life, and being a Godly example to the world. By having people seek Christ out through the Spiritual gifts that He bestowed to us, for by Him and through Him and to Him all things were created, drawing all men unto himself. For it is His will that all men should be saved. For His glory.
Partially agreed been to Joel Osteen event he DOES not preaches the full gospel . Is always based on prosperity and self centered theology he should be avoided . I agreed nobody knows , everyone argues their point only God knows , I believe in the gifts , I just don’t see what’s happening today in the local church the same as what was happening in scripture
If you lack the fruit, you don't have any gift. They have a book for everything they say, teaching you how to do it😮😮😮😮
I'm sorry Brother Corey but what else could 1 Cor. 14:1 mean? Just like in 1 Cor. 12:1 Paul introduces the chapter with "spiritual" stuff and then in both chapters goes on to spend the whole time talking about spiritual gifts! It is very bad exegesis to say that Paul introduces a totally different subject in verse 1, "spirituals", which he never expounds upon, and then suddenly, totally changes the subject to spiritual gifts, and then spends the whole of chapters 12, and 14 on spiritual gifts. Obviously, "spirituals'" in verse one, the introduction to the chapter, must be referring to spiritual gifts the subject of the chapter! (Same with chapter 12)
My brother when you sit there and you read the Bible and then you go to the Greek you're speaking in tongues and your interpreting
Even the KJV.helps with understanding that there are 4 offices versus 5
short answer yes
10:00 adulterous generation seeking after a sign. So what Locke says aligns with scripture right there I will give him that.
These folks faking gifts are so funny....Scripture supports Cessation of certain gifts period. Charismatics are bananas in scriptural knowledge...i see it everywhere.
1 CORINTHIANS 12 CHAPTER EXPLAINS GIFTS PRETTY GOOD
💡By the Spirit 44:21
I really don't care concerning cessationsim. What Angers me are Charismatics who try to rob their fellow brethren the Promise of Eternal Security of Salvation which is the sole basic of Joy.
Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.
Luke 10:20
Basically he's saying if you're not seeking gifts you're sinning🥴
Basically if gifts like prophets have ceased, then the two prophets that are in the end time are false. Cannot be true prophets if gifts ceases
im not a dispensationalist so i don't have that issue
Prophecy, discernment are two things that are gifts that are important in the Last Days as you will need for knowledge to know what is to come etc and to warn others....yes there are false prophets but that is no indication on the fact that there are children of God that will be seeing visions n dreams in these Last Days
We are to covet the gift to prophesy...
1 Corinthians 14 : 39
Wherefore, brethren, Covet (Desire) to prophesy, and forbid not to speak in tongues...
I Prophesy VICTORY over the Works of the EVIL Ones in the Mighty Name of the LORD Jesus Christ!!! and a New Pope, unless he Repent... Amen!!!
We should Not be Focused on the HolySpirit because His job is only to point you to the LORD Jesus Christ, so therefore, Focus/Call on the LORD Jesus Christ!!! Amen!!!
If the Holy Spirit moved on him to speak in tongues he would stand up and speak in a foreign language and someone will stand up and interpret what he said
Ephesians 2:20 having the foundation the Apostles and Prophets Jesus Christ is the chief cornerstone…..
If u suggest continuation, you suggest the canon is open
This is a bad faith argument, not to mention dishonest. The message being conveyed in Eph. 2:20 is that true Christianity is based on the writings of the prophets and apostles, along with Christ's own words. That is the foundation that every doctrine or belief must be based on. That is what it teaches, and that is what i believe. Nothing about that passage implies that a continualist has to believe the canon is open.
@@theeternalsbeliever1779 if… and I’m just proposing “if” you argue that the “prophetic” and “apostolic” office has continued today, then you would also have to concede that their words aswell are from God and scripture.unless you have an objective standard to delineate the two
No one and nothing can resist the Holy Spirit.
You can resist the grace of God.
whoever sows discord has the spirit of satan
yeah, the pentecostals did that when they came up with new doctrine in 1901
Today if you just say you are an apostle you are one 🙄if you say you are a prophet even if your wrong you are one - just start a you tube and take in the $$$$$$
Foundation already been laid by the Apostles some of these guys want to lay another Foundation and think too much of themselves. Study scriptures and you cant be fooled ❤
Absolutely no tattoos
If it's in the bible the Holy Word of God I believe 🙏I do believe in miracles when we pray through the Holy spirit to lead me!
I agree with you but also understand that seeing something in scripture does not always mean it is for us to experience because certain biblical occurrences are merely descriptive. Cessationists also believe in miracles. They simply believe that the apostolic gifts have ceased because they had a specific purpose in the establishing of the Church during a specific time and have fulfilled that purpose.
I am a biblical continuationist so I think certain gifts seen during the apostolic period can be manifested today at the Holy Spirit's prerogative. For instance, there could be a missionary in a remote jungle who needs to share the gospel in a language they do not know and the Holy Spirit may elect to suddenly impart His gift of tongues. I also think the Holy Spirit may even have someone lay hands on a person and bring miraculous healing in a UNIQUE situation that brings that person to saving faith. I even believe the true gift of prophesy has been demonstrated by SOME today. However, I believe these miraculous "power" gifts are imparted on an as needed basis. I agree with cessationists that we should not be seeing them regularly demonstrated in the Church.
It should be clear to us that most tongue-speaking, prophesying, casting out demons, healing from the laying on of hands, ect. is being faked and in certain cases a demonic manifestation working through false teachers. They are never manifested in the way we see in scripture because they are not coming from God. This happens because many want to prove in a sensational manner (that points to themselves) that they have the Holy Spirit by demonstrating a gift. However, scripture teaches us to desire that our born again status be revealed through the development of the fruit of the Holy Spirit in one's character (which points ONLY to God) and which is a GREATER miracle. ❤
Recorded deliverances by Jesus: 10
Isaiah Saldivar: His shadow casts out demons. He probably delivers 50 by lunch.
Gods word says .......QUINCH NOT THE SPIRIT........DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS
Gl is not a representation for anyone
I'm the one from later on in the stream. I'm putting this here b/c there's no way for me to put an essay in the chat to describe everything I could possibly know about cessasionists. To let you and others know that I wasn't commenting off of emotion, but knowledge and yes-- GASP!-- experience. I'm not going to give my life's resume, but I'm fully aware that Scripture itself is prophetic/'FORTHtelling', and I LOVE that fact. I do NOT ONLY believe that prophecy is FOREtelling as seemingly suggested (as if I've relegated all prophecy down to that, as mentioned); with that, I DO believe prophecy CAN be foretelling, which is why I said that God speaks to us through dreams and visions. (God thru His Word also tells us to test the spirits). That point of mine went ignored. What is also ignored is that FACT by cessasionists. This is why I stated 'They deny the supernatural'-- because I have never heard them speak on the fact that spiritual gifts, revelation, etc. work through believers today. This is not in any way to deny the power of the Holy Scriptures, but just that God indeed speaks to individuals and gives words of revelations for them to share to others, including a corporate body. All I have ever seen them do is mock Pentecostals (I am-- Holiness Pentecostal, but primarily, a Christian, a follower of The Way), Charismatics (which I am not), and highlight false prophets. This is ALSO why I asked whether they've ever mentioned they believe in prophecy and questioned their belief in the power of the Holy Spirit to work in and through people b/c all they do is mock. This is ALSO why I asked those rhetorical questions in the chat re: how they even knew they were 'called' to preach or how they knew to marry their spouses? Was it just a logical decision, or did God speak to them about it? I wouldn't know it-- because again, all they do is mock. Meanwhile, people are searching for answers about the spiritual things of God, only to be met with answers from New Age sources. Instead of debating who's right, which will and certainly has been turning into a fight, how about providing actual answers on this instead of talking about what you dislike about Pentecostals and Charismatics? Furthermore, as I ALSO said in the chat, there are far bigger things to be discussing today anyway instead of who's the biggest heretic. People don't know who in the world they are today, but priority #1 for cessasionists seems to be attacking the spiritual gifts and yes, supernatural power of God.
1 Corinthians 13:8
"Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away."
Paul's point is Love > Spiritual Gifts, always. Love is the greatest fruit of the spirit.
Do you LOVE your cessationist brothers?
Jesus was the final speaking of God. The Canon is closed. If God is still speaking to individuals today, should not at least part of it need to be immemorialized? Or is His Word just not as important today as it once was?
@@dubyag4124 1) Are you using the typical liberal's argument of 'you don't love XYZ group'?
2) The actual question, since you oddly brought up "love" is 'Do the cessasionist "brothers" love those of us who believe the spiritual gifts are for today?' Because they never show it, piously paint a broad brush of ALL of us (as 'smart christian' did here) as lacking biblical & theological sophistication, and have called US heretics. But, 'smart christian' took issue with ME calling THEM heretics, how I said it, and grossly generalized my comments & misjudged me because he has no clue who I am, what I know, and yes, what I've experienced. Just because I speak passionately about something doesn't mean that I don't have love.
3) 1 Cor 13:8 is an eschatological verse.
Cessationists do not deny the supernatural after all, God Himself is supernatural. What cessationists deny are the manifestations supposedly of the spirit such as prophecies that are tested and clearly false. Also prophecies that are so vague that they are clearly nothing more than a word salad. Prophecies within Scripture are not vague but specific and Scripture is clear that a prophecy that does not come to pass is clearly not of God. As for 'mocking Pentecostals', what is mocked are the ridiculous shenanigans of Pentecostals that impugn God's character like false miracles, prophecies, money grubbing in the name of God, and other undignified ridiculous activities we see in churches and pulpits frequently.
You say that people are looking for answers and end up in going into the New Age. Interesting enough though it is more often the Pentecostal/Charismatics that bring New Age like practices into the Church. Speaking in false tongues for example is a practice found in Hinduism. Declarative prayer for example, another practice commonly found in Charismatic circles, is more akin to practices found in the New Age, specifically the manifestation practices of the Law of Attraction.
There are 'bigger things to discuss' you say; but defending the integrity of Scripture from the false teaching and practices found in the Charismatic movement is exactly what Christians are commanded to do. False teaching & doctrines leads people away from Christ & to hell.
@@charlesgriffiths750 Who is trying to rewrite Scripture or add to it except for a heretic or charlatan?
God has always interacted with His creation, and still does. He speaks to us in various ways, including-- and I would say ESPECIALLY thru Scripture. With this in mind, a (rhetorical) question for cessationists is, 'How in the world would we know this and accept that as real & true, that God is speaking to someone even thru His Word??'
Why, let alone how, does the preacher preach??? How does any know what their purpose for living is (what they're to put their hands to) if God does not reveal it to them (perhaps, whether they realize it or not).
When something in Scripture not only resonates with you, but speaks to your God-breathed spirit, causes you to change, causes you to 'somehow' think differently and act differently, that gives you (AS A PREACHER, MIND YOU, which 'smart christian' is) revelation to share with an individual or a congregation as a prophetic utterance (which I know he says he does not deny)...please enlighten me on how that happens apart from the powerful move of the Holy Spirit working in us! (Not yelling at you, just the general disregard in this video/livestream of this obvious concept).
Cessasionists deny this, and it is nonsensical. I have even seen a lesser-known CZcams apologist on here say that there should be no deliverance services (for the demon-possessed). Maybe they should all witness a demon-possessed person and get back to everyone on if their ridiculous positions make sense.
And while I am not Charismatic, I do believe that signs & wonders DO occur today as well; we're not to seek after them, and it isn't something that just happens at the flip of a switch. They prop up the "Benny Hinns" of the world and make them the poster children for the prophetic & spiritual gifts, and it's wrong. We have already known for decades that those people are false teachers, false prophets, and heretics. Okay, and? They literally made a whole documentary in recent months outlining their nonsense, as if this is problem number one in society. Total absurdity. That's the other upsetting thing about this discussion, which I'm sure would be pegged as 'besides the point'. It isn't.
Again, I go back to my first statement, which 'smart christian' called silly, about them denying the supernatural. I stand by that, and it's true. They have offered no sound biblical explanation on what people need-- and what Scripture speaks of-- and that's to break through people's hardened hearts with God's Holy Word and help them see that He can and will lead & guide them TODAY. What's more, that someone speaking a Word to them might just be God sending that Word to them. (But again, we must test the spirits).
Jesus said that He was sending a Helper to us to commune with us etc and teach us in all His ways...But, according to the logic of 'smart christian' and the cessasionists (sounds like a band), THAT shouldn't even be happening today. Someone could understandably misinterpret that passage as meaning He would be sending the Holy Spirit only to the ones He was speaking to. That's the sort of logic cessasionists use.
The Bible isn't just a book of logical conclusions, like Greek philosophy or something; among many things, it is a supernatural text. It is a Living Text; a Living Word. That is what I was trying to get 'smart christian' to understand, as he cherry-picked my comments (debating ones he thought he could pick apart).
How do these continuationsts not know what cessacionists really believe. I find this pathetic.
Should I go to Eastern orthodox church
nope, they have a heretical view of God and heretical view of man, the gospel is the reconciliation of man with God
therefore they have no gospel
Great question! I’m looking into Orthodoxy - the ancient church. Orthodox churches tend to be rather ethnic and I’m Black, so I’m considering an OCA church with services in English. Question the assertion that the Church was heretical for 1500 years until Protestants popped up a mere 500 years ago. Study the church fathers. Pray and seek.
@@Bamifun same here as african american male looking for one to
@@Bamifun East schismed from the West 1000 years ago, the Protestants were simply correcting errors of the Western church
EOC has absolutely no room to talk lol
Oh, by the way, it is Stupid.
You either have faith or you don't! All things are possible for those who believe. There are no limits on the holy Spirit
You're describing faith in an outcome or faith in the power of your own faith. Biblical faith is faith in the God who answers prayer according to HIS perfect will, regardless of the outcome. ❤
ok so why can't you teleport?
@@jalapeno.tabasco who's to say you cant!? If God wills it. Enoch did.
@@BereanFellowship Enoch didn't teleport, he was taken up to heaven, im talking about Philip in Acts 8
Cessationist here! God still performs miracles, only the sign gifts ceased.
For me there is no debate, spiritual gifts are real, they are biblical and they are "available" to us today, the Bible even tells that we must pursue spiritual gifts like the gift of prophecy. I do not blame the skepticism because of the false christians that claim these gifts, but seriously there are real, and God works through people even today. And most importantly, this is Scripture based.
Acts 2:17
"in the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams."
so now they're merit-matic gifts now?
@@jalapeno.tabasco1 Corinthians 14:5 Now I should like all of you to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. One who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues.
Cory you are in denial, "legitimate tounges"? Youngest are not for evangelism. Many people in the 1st century church are naturally bilingual.
God gives tounges, when they first were given( Genesis 11:7-9), a whole city was named Babel because no one understood anything anyone was saying. God did that, right. Languages come from God,an infinite God ,who has infinite Languages. The Spirit gives utterance. Genesis 11 is proof that Languages when introduced by God can be unknown and called babbling.
I do not follow the argument of saying it is stupid to convince others on seeking spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues. First, at a minimum, what is wrong with graciously and gently trying to correct a brother’s understanding of scripture? Second, Jesus said in Mark 16:17, These signs shall accompany those that believe. Step one is you have to believe that there are gifts for the church. As long as you’re a cessationist, how will you receive what you refuse to believe for? Third, there were times in the Bible that a fellow believer laid hands on someone to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. (Acts 19:6). Paul was concerned about informing people about being filled with the Holy Spirit and laying hands-rather than just sitting around and waiting for the Holy Spirit to come upon them without their knowledge. Further, Paul’s teaching in Corinthians clearly shows that a believer has control on when and when not to use the gifts. So scripture does not teach that the Spirit imparts and operates gifts separate from teaching and believer interaction and cooperation.
> Second, Jesus said in Mark 16:17, These signs shall accompany those that believe. Step one is you have to believe that there are gifts for the church. As long as you’re a cessationist, how will you receive what you refuse to believe for?<
so receiving gifts depends on your obedience/works? do you know what charism means?
you think people can limit the Spirit? 😭😭😂😂 how weak do you think God is?