Why Batman: Arkham Origins Has My Favorite Bane
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- An analysis on why Bane from Arkham Origins might just be the best adaptation of the character we've ever gotten, or is, at least, my favorite version of Bane.
Bane's theme from Arkham Origins:
• Bane
This video was super helpful for getting an idea of other adaptations of Bane I was less familiar with, as well as for acquiring footage for this video.:
• Bane: Evolution (TV Sh...
- Chapters -
00:00 - Intro
01:45 - Bane's Origins
03:01 - Other Adaptations
05:37 - Arkham Origins Bane
09:29 - Dark Knight Rises Bane
12:03 - Why AO Bane is Special
14:20 - Outro
#batman #bane #arkhamorigins - Hry
A few notes for this video (will make the most sense if read after watching the video):
If you like any of the versions of Bane that I consider to be bad or underwhelming, that's totally cool and would love to hear what you love about them. Different adaptations appeal to different people and it'd be awesome to here other people's perspective.
When talking about Thanos and Doomsday, I made a mistake by implying that Thanos was created to beat the heroes, when we was an established character well before his infinity gauntlet story. For the case of Thanos, I should have referred to that story as what he's known for and what makes him famous, which is also the case for Bane and Doomsday.
The reason most of the adaptations for Bane are underwhelming is due to the fact that he isn't there long enough to make a lasting impact. There are also plenty of examples where the adaptions make him dumb or ineffective, but not all versions are necessarily bad.
In terms of Bane and Doomsday, I'm not saying that these characters aren't written well, I'm saying that it's harder to write them when their first major appearance has them winning against the hero. Especially for the case of Doomsday, it feels like oftentimes writers resort to making them just like all of the other super powerful villains instead of unique characters in their own right.
This is my first analysis video, and I'm still figuring things out, so feedback is 100% appreciated!
If there's any version of Bane that is your favorite or that you think is underrated, feel free to mention that in the comments.
Video game wise: Arkham Origins and Telltale series Bane.
Animated cartoon: TAS Bane (specifically the Black Masked + red venom tube design especially in the original series).
Movie: Christopher Nolan Bane.
How about we talk about Topher Grace’s Venom because I think he gets way too much hate which I don’t think he is bad as Jesse Eisenberg’s Lex Luther or Amazing Spider-Man 2 villains because Sam Raimi never wanted anything to do with Venom because he wanted the vulture in movie instead of him which it was all Avi Arad’s fault so that’s why Sam made Venom isn’t a straight up villain and he had to rush Everything with by taking elements from the 90’s cartoon and from his earlier appearance in the comics where he worked in a different newspaper company and it had something to do with the Sin Eater.
Another good interpretation of bane was batman telltale.
They only got part of Bane right in the Dark Knight Rises movie. The physicality of him. Mixing his origin story with Talia’s was dumb. Bane has never been a lovesick puppy dog. I get that doing the venom steroid would be expensive and not guaranteed to be received well. But when you screw up everything else that says something. I was not impressed with way they did Bats back being broke. Scene from graphic novels should have been in the movie. Where he busts into Wayne manor and breaks his back in the Batcave. Then drags his body through the streets and deposits him at GCPD steps
@Charles Doyle yeah, pretty much my issues too. Seeing as the film has a big theme of class warfare having Bane's prison syuff was enough, tieing it to the League of Assasins felt unneeded and mudied things. Made it feel like it was all over the personal vendetta Talia had and everything else didn't matter.
And the back break was so quick and looked like a plastic action figure getting cracked. No bend, no close up, no dramatic yell of pain, just the stiff batsuit touching the knee and then rolling away within 3 seconds.
Yeah finally thank you bro. This version of Bane was the closest to the canon. I mean he wasn't just stupid brute but he was also intelligent. Hell he discovered Batman's secret identity. When he said "I'm in your house Bruce" I was like OMG 😱. He is the force to be reckoned with. He almost killed Alfred. He was like the Green Goblin, "a cunning warrior strikes his opponent's heart". Well in the comics he snapped his neck 😢
Quick correction: he _did_ kill Alfred lol
yes best animated/live action version by far, in young justice and DCAU he is ok
hes good in telltale games!
Broke his spine
@@chaoticstarfish3401 huh? In what movie did he kill alfred?
In Lego Batman 1, in one of the villains story missions, Bane is arm wrestling Killer Croc while reading. I thought that was pretty cool
I’m sick of most adaptations ( not all ) of Bane showing his mouth. I feel like the full mask is one of the few aspects that makes him more intimidating.
True, but I also like the original design from the comics as well
I know right??? The mouth ruins it for me, it just looks really weird and off.
Agree, for me it’s batman eyes showing that ruins it, ai really like the white eyes, people say that in movies it need the eyes so the actor can express feelings, but there are many ways around it: like for example breaking pieces of the mask
Agreed. It’s like the Michael Myers effect. It adds a degree of mystery and intrigue to the character. I think the less of Bane’s face you see, the harder it is to read his thoughts and emotions and therefore, becomes more unpredictable and intimidating. After all, what can be more terrifying than what we don’t understand?
@@vigil7924I remember as a kid I thought Bane was lame but let me tell you Arkham Origins made me eat my words (and I didn’t even play the game)
I think Bane deserves his own solo movie like Venom or Joker, where he is the main character. The core of the story will be the Vengeance of Bane and the Knightfall. I do remember there was one comic which were parallels with Bruce, panels showing their loss, their, childhood, training, education, etc. And in the end his ultimate master plan and victory over Batman. Also very interesting detail about Batman and Bane. They symbolize fear as the bat, Bruce ended up becoming the bat and embracing his fear, Batman, and Bane also had visions of the bat while he was traveling in his mind during meditation and he killed the bat, he defeated his fear
No I just think he should get a movie where he gets to be the main villain and win
He needs to be built, like Thanos was.
No
I think a movie about Bane growing up in Santa Prisca and Peña Dura has the potential to be decent, but I wouldn’t hold my breath after Black Adam
@a.potato9464 you're very much thinking of the stories he just listed off. Which really would have to be like a quadrilogy just cuz of the Knightfall alone
The one of the (several) scenes that stood out to me in this game was when Joker had all his hired assassins in the room, just before Batman enters Black Mask's highrise. He immediately demonstrated that he was a whole league ahead of everyone Batman had encountered that night, culminating in his ruthless dispatching of Electrocutioner to get the point across. Even though they tried not to show it, everyone in the room, trained assassins and supervillains in their own right, were scared of him, and it didn't take much else to get them going. All except for Bane. He didn't back down from Joker, bend the knee figuratively or otherwise, and immediately made it clear that he was no one's hired attack dog. It was his show at that point (or at least partly), and of the remaining hitmen who'd defined the game's story up to that point, Bane showed that he alone could stand in the same room with the likes of the Joker, and that of anyone else Batman would face that night, these two were the greatest threat by a country mile.
In the end it was essentially just foreshadowing the game's final act, but the scene was very well done and it's stuck with me for… damn, has it been almost ten years?
To be fair, I doubt Shiva was too concerned by Joker since she was just there to reach out to Bruce. Firefly and Deadshot? Maybe.
For me it's the scene where Bruce arrives and decides to be sneaky and Bane enters the elevator he's hiding on top of and immediately reaches up through the ceiling and grabs him and throws him into the room. He knew the batman would come, he knew all the ways he could sneak in and he was able to immediately figure out where he was. Big brute Bane from Asylum and City would never ever be able to accomplish it so it immediately hit me that this was a whole different tier of threat.
@@ARB1452what lead to his deterioration?
@@JohnJo-qn7wq The final boss fight is where Bane injects himself with a shiiiit ton of his GoGo Juice (possibly there's a malfunction I can't quite remember) and it warps his flesh to the point it is in Asylum as well as completely destroys his mind. Which conveniently wraps up the fact he figures out Bruce is Batman extremely quickly and blows up the batcave n almost kills Alfred just to hurt Bruce. So the Brain Damage makes him just hate the Bat and barely be able to form a sentence together
“Peace has cost you your strength victory has defeated you” Bane(DKR)
I absolutely agree, this is my favorite version of bane of all time.
Man I've been saying this for ages, he was not only the best adaption but a great villain in general. He was both psychologically and physically imposing, something that you see rarely in most villains
Arkham Origins felt like the perfect introduction to the Arkham series. It's sorta just Arkham Batman in his simplest, with a unique, interesting story, and entertaining villains and plot. Plus the gift of the Online mode? Shows how passionate WB Montreal was when working on the game. Still bewilders me how so many people disliked it.
one of my favorite aspects of origins bane is oddly enough the music that plays during the fight. it's so intimidating and powerful. it really fit the character and the situation at hand.
Bane in the Dark Knight Rises feels more like a character inspired by Bane (for me at least) then Bane from the comics
Does anyone else remember how Killer Croc was originally like the pre-Bane before he got dumb? I really think that's one of the reasons why he and Bane often fight each other
They definitely did bane justice in this game
When I think of cunning brutes, Bane to me is the perfect example.
Same, although I definitely think Lung from Worm fits there too.
Also they way they portrayed Bane in this game blends well into who bane is in the rest of the Arkham games. Shows why he is the way he is later on
If you like those versions of Bane you'll absolutely adore the one from season 2 of the Telltale games. They struck a fantastic balance by making him intelligent and battle-hungry, but also prideful and having his own twisted code of honor.
My only problem with arkham origins' bane is that he says once Batman dies he will find peace, and the story refuses to elaborate why he said that
I never thought of Tom's Bane voice as funny.
Boss fights are the best in Arkham Origins, and because of that, all of the villains are there to shine. Had this game being voiced by Kevin, Mark and other familiar voices to the fan, it would have been among the best in the series.
The final fight with Bane in Arkham origins is one of the only moments in my gaming life that nearly stopped my heart. I was so terrified that I almost stopped the game in middle and thought about not playing it.
I really love the Bane from the Harley Quinn cartoon. He definitely has the intelligence and the physical power. He's also endlessly put upon by the other Bat-villains, who sorta treat him as the new guy. He's also a spot-on parody of the Tom Hardy Bane from Dark Knight Rises voice-wise.
Harley Quinn’s Bane is so good
They don't treat him as the new guy, they straight disrespect him at every available opportunity lol
That valentines special tho 😂
@@EarnestEgregore Oh yeah that shit was hilarious
@@pjlusk7774 "My loins!!!"
Bane is one of my favorite Batman villains and I think that’s entirely because of Origins, he challenges Batman physically, mentally, and intellectually. I still find him intimidating when I play the game.
i think Paul Dini has a tendency to write Bane as just a brute with insane strength
Pretty sure Bane was also added late into development. Given more time, I feel Dini could have given us a better Bane
@@vigil7924I know that he and the rest of the BTAS team hated having to write him into the show. Maybe that dislike is still there for them? It's not like he was much better in City or Knight
Bane is my third favorite Batman villain after Joker and Ra’s Al Ghul, so I always loved Origins since this portrayal really knocks it out of the park.
The most comic accurate Bane, it's a shame we don't see more of this kind of Bane
I also love that Bane is Latino. I think it's really cool that Batman's mentally and physically most formidable villain is Latino. I really hope that aspect of the character is finally included in live action in the new DC movies.
3:11. Totally agree, bane is meant to not just push Batman physically but also mentally, he’s like his mental equal, both are equally smart making it more difficult for Batman to win, reducing him to a brute ruins him as a character
Him: What do Bane, Doomsday, and Thanos have in common?
Me: They have shoulders the size of semi trucks.
Agree with this so much. Yes, he was a physical force of nature in the story, but also an intellectual threat to Batman too. Those two factors combined actually made him feel like a terrifying villain rather than a dumb brute who runs into walls.
Surprisingly excellent commentary from a small channel! Definitely subscribed and I hope that your channel grows.
Bane is my favorite Batman Villain as well! I also really hated how Bane is portrayed as a dumb big brute while in reality he's more intelligent. His will is also very strong.
The only thing I didn't like about the Arkham Origins version of Bane (which was bordering on perfect) was that the developers had to (or felt the need to) explain the discrepancy between their version of Bane and the wildly different version that we know from later in the timeline of the "Arkham"' continuity. Injecting the TN-1 compound explains why the two Banes were different, but it comes at the expense of souring how cool Bane had been in the game for me until that point.
It's like, Bane is literally holding Batman in the air by the neck, completely at his mercy in that scene. Bane doesn't _need_ to inject that crap into himself at all and throw his intelligence away. And the game had previously exposited that Bane wants to rid himself of his addiction and chemical dependency, so injecting an even crazier version of venom into himself when he doesn't even have to to win the fight just baffles me. Sure, it does tie up the continuity for "Arkham" Bane, but I would've been fine with just not explaining why he's different, since I don't care about acknowledging the Rocksteady version of Bane anyway, but that's a personal preference thing.
Personally, I think the story should've left Bane unconscious on the floor after Batman restarts his heart, and maybe give him a post-credits scene in prison explaining that he'll keep Batman's identity to himself (instead of wasting that time on a scene with Slade and Amanda Waller that's never going to pay off). Screw being consistent with the later "Arkham Asylum" and "Arkham City" version of Bane.
It's just a you problem, very needy I gotta say
To be fair, Bruce had just stopped his heart and nearly killed him a moment prior. I can understand if it was an action made out of fear.
I disagree completely.
Bane is hands down the best Batman villain.He’s the mirror of Batman,and is the epitome of strength.Also the intelligence aspect makes him scary because his strength is fear inducing but that with Bane’s cunning can truly shake a hero to their core
He’s a better evil Batman then any of the actual evil batmen
@@billyboleson2830 Bane is one of the few villains capable of shaking up Batman through physical damage or blackmail.He’s the twisted dark version which paints him as the best evil Batman
I feel like you might also appreciate banes portrayal in the injustice games. Sure he's not a main threat but he's definitely wear bane would be in the conflicts. Working under someone with a grand plan while still trying to reach his own personal goals in intelligent ways
What's crazy is before I clicked I already had the same opinion on bane being my favorite iteration
I mean, it's not exactly a controversial opinion lol. Just wanted to show all of the great things about the character, as well as mention a few things that people might not think of
Bane from Arkham Origins is my favorite also. Love Bane in TDK Rises!
This game was hated because rocksteady didn’t work on it but honestly I loved it and it fits perfectly as a origin story for the rocksteady trilogy. I think all the characters were written and performed perfectly and I always thought banes portrayal in origins was the best because it showed us the origin of how he became addicted to the venom leading him to where we find him in asylum. Also the fact that he’s way smarter in origins than asylum just made him feel more deadly as a villain. 10/10 Video 🔥
Bane in the animated 90s series was real good too
4:24 I first knew bane from the Batman when, I was 7 years old.
I agree, The Origins Bane is my favorite version of the character.
One of my favorite Bane iterations was in Young Justice when he went venom free, because it it he became a better fighter and allowed him to think more critically
This version of Bane was legit terrifying
Playing as Bane is always fun in Arkham Origin Online
You should definitely make more of such content regarding what characters and stuff did Arkham games got perfectly, I still remember that stealth mission of bane, was so claustrophobic and tense
To be fair to both City and Assylum, it has been shown that TITAN is far more damaging on the body and mind. When we see bane in Asslyum, he looks like he has gone weeks without food or water and his mind has bene broken by that institution, with the sudden injection of TITAN causing him to not think straight and just attack. In City, his battling addiction to TITAN, and of course, damages his mind and body by doing so. He then leaves Gotham, returns to his own city, and cleans up the drug lords that was their, we know this through Arkham Knight. So he gets better and sets his life straight.
From what I remember, the DCAU Bane was also a let down. I don't think he was portrayed as dumb, but I don't recall him ever getting much chance to shine either as a sharp mind.
Definitely not a mindless brute. His biggest problem was lack of screentine, especially as a main threat
I love to see a Scarface style Bane origin movie. That would kick so much ass.
My favorite version of Bane is the Rebirth comic version especially in I am Bane, because damn that final fight it fucking awesome since as the comic itself points out Batman and a Bane are just two broken men who are one the opposite sides of a war
I agree J.B. Blanc performance in this was outstanding really brought bane to life great pairing with Roger Craig Smith's batman and showed this was not only a deadly enemy but an intelligent one , truly a challenge on I am the night mode as well !
Just got recommended this (probably from the batman content I've been watching lately) and this video makes me want to replay Arkham Origins more than anything else now, the way you broke down how great he is makes me want to face him and beat this intelligence man. Great video
I love this channel thank you, I needed this type of content.
Bane is so great in Origins because he lives up to his name: he's the bane of Batman. He can compete with him on both a tactical and physical level, and Origins really hammers that home.
If I had to give one reason to play Origins, it'd be for Bane. I wish this version of him were in Asylum, City, and more significantly, in Knight - releasing after Origins. Would've been an interesting choice as the Arkham Knight... But besides that, it would've been great to see an intelligent Bane in the game series again.
I like to think Bane in origin is a mixture between Chris Nolan and Batman animated series. He dress like a private militia like in the movie but wears the mask like in his animated counterpart.
Great job! I don't see why you don't have more subs, seriously. I am working on my own Arkham Origins video currently! Cannot wait to finish and upload real soon.
I can honestly see this version of bane in THE BATMAN Franchise! He would fit the aesthetic perfectly
I love how WB Montreal not only perfected the character and paved over Rocksteady’s mistake, but they also gave an in universe explanation to why he was a dumb brute in Asylum and City.
This was a well-written, well thought out analysis and I really enjoyed it. I have to agreet with you a 100% percent.
How he knew where Batman could be hiding and so he ripped him out of the top of the elevator, how he deduced his identity by comparing Bruce's and Batman's 'You just ran out of time' sentence are signs of how well crafted Bane's story beats are. The way he taunts Batman by referring him to just 'Bruce' or 'Mr. Wayne', trying to anger him and push him to his mental limits. Ah, such well done character and a great essay, my guy!
Keep more of these coming, you've got talent!
Fully agree, a mentally threatening Bane is hard to do but important, otherwise he’s just Killer Croc.
I’d go so far as to say the Arkham series does the best version of nearly every Batman character, though I take issue with its Tim Drake. He’s meant to be the bat-family’s resident nerd/thinker, not the varsity football bro with a shaved head that we got. Looks especially out of place with the direction the character has taken in recent years.
Nicely made video, good choice of footage and your delivery/argument is a pleasure to listen to.
This is a textbook great pure opinion video ❤️🙏 Good thinking and reasoning, i always feel like I have to keep holding on to any good quality stuff like this. Too rare.
Great essay bro.. 10000 percent agree!!
Excellent video - I hope you grow!
Telltale batman's bane is a close second to best bane. He's smart, strong, and has a lot of character personality
The introduction to Bane in Knightfall storyline is a stellar work of art. Him being a physical paragon was only his body catching up to the absolute greatness of his mind.
Yessss more content keep it up man
Bane is honestly great in Telltale Batman season 2. I think it's the same voice actor from Origins.
Bane is my favorite
This is amazing keep it up
This version of bane is very underrated, the whole game is in fact yea the gameplay can get goofy most of the time but it doesn’t mean the whole game sucks. It definitely is one of my favourite dc games ever made
*Very* well-done analysis (👏)! "Arkham Origins" really does 'get' Bane more than a lot of other DC media out there that features him as a character in their stories (I'm looking at YOU, "Batman and Robin").
Underrated youtuber
Great video! I'll check your other Arkham videos out 😃
Bane is my favorite villain and Knightfall is one of my favorite Batman stories. It's such a great concept. Too bad Bane pretty much never gets adapted properly. I'd love to see an animated Knightfall trilogy.
Yo?? I did not expect to see you with such a little sub count. Keep it up, you got potential to sky rocket!
Edit: Also, I'd LOVE for this Bane to become playable in the Suicide Squad game down the line.
This version of bane lives in my head rent free so I’m so glad this video exists ❤️
Aweome video, though do try to include more audio from the things youre referring like the games or any the adaptaton.
I like the Arkham origins Bane a lot too, and aside from the OG comics Knightfall version, he might be my favourite, but the problem I have with this version of Bane is the same as one of the biggest problems I prescribe to the Dark Knight Rises version: In the end he turns out to be a lackey.
I would just appreciate a story where Bane is the guy running the show, portrayed as a high-level chess player, placing all of these pieces on the board, and a massive physical threat to Batman. That's how he is in Knightfall, and I just haven't seen that in an adaptation yet.
Totally agree. This is the only version of Bane (except Knightfall) that's actually terrifying. Relentless, brutal and highly intelligent.
I'd say Injustice 2's version of Bane is a good balance of the strength of Bane's mind and body, just wish we saw more of that represented.
Couldn’t agree more with everything you said!
This version of Bane is also my favorite. Origins is my favorite of the Arkham series and the final boss fight showed us what the final joker fight in Asylum should’ve been.
W video. W channel. Big W
It is a good thing that they did this adoption of Bane for this video game, because Batman is an overcomer and after defeating Bane and taking back Gotham, Bane now looks like a one-hit-wonder villain in the comics.
I love how he weaves so well into the narrative and conflict of the game, forcing Bruce to realize that he can’t save Gotham alone after nearly losing Alfred to Bane just being better by himself. I also love how despite the fact that later in the Arkham timeline he becomes a lot less intelligence, but they explain it excellently in this game, show his Venom addiction and determination to break the Batman completely left him more broken than Batman. It creates a unique perspective, while also reminding us how broken Bane can become both before and after pushing his limit, which adds a lot to his development in the series, allowing us to see how a once intelligent threat, is turned into a broken brute who will never be as big of a threat as he once was due to how far went to win, reminding us how broken Bane can really be both in origin, and in current scenarios.
Thank You he is my favorite villain when done right
I'm not fond of Origins Bane's *mask*--I'd prefer his mouth being covered--but I LOVE Origins Bane in every other regard. He's pretty definitive in my mind. Both a physical powerhouse and intimidating genius. "Designed to win." 😈
Bane's an interesting villain archetype in general. You'd expect him to be a bullying brute, but he's also a genius. "A genius brute" I guess. There's not many comic characters who embody that archetype off the top of my head. Only other ones off the top my head are like...Thanos? The Mauler twins from Invincible? It'd be cool to see more genius brutes.
I personally quite loved the TN-1 plot twist at the end of Origins. It explained why Bane's memory of Bruce's home got wiped, why he's more of a brute in Asylum/City, and why he's so MASSIVE.
Nice to see someone give this game some of the credit it deserves.
Great video. I adored this version of Bane, one of the best. I also really appreciated how WB Montreal went the extra mile and at the end gave an explanation for why Bane is the (cruddy) way he is in AA & AC - the TN-1 damaged his mind, hence his intellectually poor showing & lackluster brute characterization.
This video indirectly made me really miss the Arkham Origins multiplayer... really wish I could play it again
No question. Thank you for this. I bought Origins before I even had a console to play it on. It had it's flaws, but I LOVED this game.
Love the Arkham games obviously, but I think people kinda slept on Telltale Batman. The characterizations are rather good, and the focus on detective work over combat sets it apart from most other Batman games.
Personally, Paul Dano's Riddler is my favourite villian,
He's a concoction of the comic accurate riddler's narcissistic persona
the modern internet age threats
the past zodiac killer threat
Joaquin phoenix's Joker's sympathetic nature
and Heath Ledger's anarchist nature..
And yet.. it still works flawlessly..
Great video man, i would've subbed but i don't wanna ruin the perfect 420 sub count. Remind me once u hit 421 subs, and I'll make it 422.
Bane is resilient that's for sure.
Well made vid
I love bane's voice, in this
5:07 I mean come on Rocksteady, he could've easily broken through those shutters!
I also like how he figures out that Bruce Wayne is Batman in this game. It's very simple but very overlooked and that is that Bruce used the same phrase and manner of speaking as Batman. It's brilliant and shows how smart he really is.
Also I love the portrayal in The Dark Knight Rises and fun fact, Tom Hardy is only 5'9" in real life so they had to make him look larger and taller through the use of camera angles and perspective shifting.
I feel the exact same way. Bane hypes me up! 💪💪
I remember the scene he pulled Batman out of the elevator like he was already waiting for him it was so badass
I've seen 95% of Bane's in different media. This one tops them all
Absolutely! They nailed the voice, the updated costume, and the intelligence. Every chance i get, i giddily show people that scene where it takes Bane 2 seconds to figure out Batman is on top of the elevator and yank him down 😃I want to dub that voice over Tom Hardy in the DKR film.
Bro, I agree with you completely, i thought da same bedore
I agree with everything you've said, although I'll just add that being a better and more comic-accurate Bane than what we got in Dark Knight Rises is a very low bar lol. He's not bad in that movie, but he is so different aside from being intelligent and strong that he may as well be his own character.
There are two versions of Bane from comics and books that really do him justice for me personally… one is his characterization in his run with Secret Six… and also the way he is written in the Greg Rucka novelization of No Man’s Land… really really worth checking out if you aren’t familiar with them
Thanks for the recommendations!
@@vigil7924 they're both great but Secret Six is a gamechanger for some people, like they either love love it or hate hate it... good luck!