Arkham Knight - One Mistake from being the Greatest Villain
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- čas přidán 31. 03. 2024
- Character analysis on the Arkham Knight in Rocksteady's Batman Arkham Knight. He was one small mistake in direction away from being the PERFECT villain in any video game EVER!
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This is what I will remember as Arkham Batman’s true ending. Not the travesty we recently got
Corny
I don’t get why more fans don’t do this. I was surprised by how dramatic some people were being. Comicbook fans should be use to it. Just because Tom King’s Batman is bad doesn’t mean Scott Snyder’s Batman is ruined even though they are technically the same.
@@inshal6420 I do agree but on the other hand I was a big “How I met your mother” fan. After watching the final episode I couldn’t even watch the show anymore. Perhaps knowing where the path leads can ruin the journey.
😔May all know THIS to be True😇
That's a given.
No one was more done dirty than Hush after the exciting intro in City which led to a single-button-press mission in Knight
The rot was already taking over Rocksteady by the time they made Arkham Knight.
@@mattmark94ironic that u say that cause Arkham Knight went extremely well and most people love it
I respectfully disagree. Deathstroke.
@@lebayhsok9557deathstrokes boss was good, just not as good as what WB did
@@jaquan323 The Deathstroke boos battle in Arkham Knight was just another tank battle instead of a real melee boss battle we should've gotten.
There is an incredibly easy fix to this. Reveal it to the audience right at the start, invincible-style. That way the audience would get their plottwist (though rather early), can focus on Batman’s surprise being fully convinced Jason is dead AND not be called idiots by the devs for having it be way too obvious the whole time. It would also allow you to have Jason’s interactions with Barbara as an actual cutscene giving Jason much more depth.
That’s an awful idea that completely ruins Batman’s arc throughout the game. Jason’s reveal was supposed to be the climax of Batman’s arc.
@@Entertainer12314 The other guy was saying that audience should know that Jason is the Arkham Knight (cuz every1 saw it coming from 10 miles away) and batman himself should have figured it out in the end. Kinda like how it takes a long ass while for mark to figure out who omniman truly is in invincible but the audience had known that omniman was a villain from the start, thus increasing the tension in th overall story
Batman should have known the Knight's identity from their second meeting. Arkham Batman is literally written to be stupid so that they can have that obvious reveal at the end of the game.
@@mattmark94 Why would he think Jason is the Arkham knight when he thinks Jason is dead? You definitely weren’t paying attention to the game at all.
@@vikrantburde8870 What you said made absolutely no sense at all. Why would Batman think Jason is the Arkham Knight when he thinks Jason is dead?
This is the same company that gave us the clayface reveal, so they are capable of high quality storytelling they just didn’t put their best foot forward in Jason’s instance
City and asylum had a different writer
@@jawsdanFor the better considering how much superior knight’s writing is and considering how awful Dini’s plans were for Arkham Knight.
Well I mean, Clay face was just for shock if anything, sure you could say what Joker said, " it's important to keep up appearances." But ultimately it still was for shock.
@@Entertainer12314what better those plans?
@@Entertainer12314sorry i meant what were
One of the problems with Jason as the Arkham Knight is the flashbacks. The moment you see the first one you know the identity because there's no other reason to have flashbacks in a game unless it's related. That gave away the mystery behind Arkham Knight
Granted, he also experienced a prior flashback to Barbara getting shot by the Joker. If looking at that sequence without the idea of the Knight being Jason, they tie together as Joker messing with Batman about bringing his friends into this little game of theirs, leading to him being afraid of losing Tim after Harley's attack on the studios.
@@davidbeer5015 You're right but with the Red Hood figure and dlc I was almost sure that the knight would be Jason and not just me, others may have guessed it as well
It doesnt fuckin matter wether u knew it or not the game was amazing, and they did his speeches and his suit masterfully well done.
@@seynpurrp Calm down man, I didn't say the game was bad or anything, I was disappointed by the reveal that AK was Jason and this is my and 45 other people's opinion who have agreed with me with their likes. And yes everything about AK is cool, from the way he talks to his swagger and the way he walks with the only problems being the ones that I mentioned above
@@rohambahraee im calm, i prolly forgot to say in my opinion but its wtvr, lol
There should’ve been some interaction between Jason and Tim. It’s mentioned in the database that Tim actually came to Batman, having deduced his identity. Since then, it’s always been my head-canon that Bruce only took him on because he hoped that Tim's detective skills would be useful in helping him find Jason. There’s no other scenario where Batman takes on another Robin while Jason is still MIA.
It's also worth mentioning that Jason's database entry specifically mentions that he deactivated his tracker when he went after Joker. Compare to Dick, who gets captured by Penguin. Batman is able to rescue him within minutes because he still has his tracker, even as a solo hero. It's another missed opportunity that Jason never reckons on-screen with the culpability he has in his own fate.
That's exactly my headcanon too!
it’s not that jason was MIA it’s that he believed he was dead sure he was looking for him and once joker sent the film to batman to quite literally get him to "abandon" Jason he thought jason was just straight up dead and then tim found out about bruce and then batman saw that tim’s detective skills were comparable to him he adopted him as robin thought in the comics it’s a little more thought out like in the comics and even mentioned in the game database that tim was there that night when nightwings parents died too
thought it is pretty stupid that jokers film alone would’ve persuaded batman into believing he was dead cause realistically batman would try to at the very least find a body to give him a proper burial but just another example of weird choices with the writing in arkham knight
@@dummyalex4781 The time between Jason's initial disappearance and when the videotape was delivered is what I'm referring to as him being MIA, and that's when I think Bruce would have brought Tim into the fold.
2:56 love how Jason stops the Fear Takedown
Honestly, if they wanted Jason to work, they shouldve had him be the tutorial, make you feel helpless and pathetic. Show off the torture he went through, have joker monologue putting seeds of doubt in some nightmare sequences, and really have you just be in pain for Jason. That would’ve at least made you understand who this character is and why he makes sense for the narrative they were going for.
They literally already did that with the flashbacks at the movie studios and during Jason’s reveal.
@BrightLord3019
those were not flashbacks, those were allucinations from the fear toxin. The only real flashback was the scene when Joker was recording his fake killing of Jason, because Batman obviously watched that tape. Looks like you didn't pay attention to the story.
@@mattmark94 because the two previous hallucinations are what precipitated the third one, it’s Batman interpretation of the torture Joker must’ve put Jason through.
Honestly that’s a great idea. Getting to play as him in the tutorial and playing out his escape during the events of asylum and having him look to the batwing as it flies away triumphantly and see the hatred in his face could have been a great setup. That and giving him a bigger part post game would have justified the title of the game.
@@Entertainer12314
No it was the actual torture Jason went through. Wtf would it be different?
I honestly think arkham knight shouldve been anarky from origins. He was just a kid in origins, he rallied a large number behind him, and he not only was onto batman by calling him "just another spoiled rich kid", but also says something that could be the driving motive of the arkham knight, by suggesting that batman is the reason the city has gone to hell. Bringing the argument of batman making his own enemies to light. In arkham knight, Cash's logs state that anarky got snatched by the government. Deathstroke was taken by amanda waller, she couldve grabbed anarky too. He trains with deathstroke, rallies an army, studied batman. Batman doesnt even suggest that anarky could be the knight, b/c hes a kid that got lost in this system, and you can argue that batman failed him.
Me hubiera encantado que fuera el propio slade Arkham knight
That might have worked in other Batman adaptations? But in the Arkham universe, a majority of Batman villains were either already villains beforehand or their origins were not influenced by Batman. The only exception to this would have been Joker
@@CoOlKyUbI96no I could see it working because with the Jason flashbacks it would like a decoy and make the reveal more interesting.
@@retr0prime_812 personally I still disagree. If Anarky was to make that argument of Batman creating his villains, the inclusion of Jason would not change the majority. It would only be Joker and Jason that Batman created. And even then an argument could be made that it was Joker would made Jason a villain, not Batman
@@CoOlKyUbI96 fair point but it probably would have been nice to have anarky work under the Arkham knight.
Alfred is the only member (except Batman) to not be kidnapped or held hostage once
I think it was only one time, but wasn't he by Bane in one or so comics?
Alfred in origins: *dies and gets revived*
Batman was held hostage by Harley in Arkham City.
@@altalia07yeah. In the City of Bane storyline he was kept as a hostage and he was eventually killed
Batman was literally held hostage at the end of Arkham Knight lol
One idea I had was instead of Jason being the Arkham Knight. An interesting idea would be to reveal that Damian Wayne, in his early 20s, could've been Arkham Knight. I think the idea of an older Damian being the Arkham Knight would've been intriguing, and maybe he became the Arkham Knight as a way to avenge his mother, Talia. Damian blames Bruce for failing to save her. Damian would've used his resources from the League of Assassins and teamed up with Scarecrow to secretly double-cross Scarecrow in his misguided revenge against his biological father. Maybe Bruce could've stopped him, and Damian could've gone down a character redemption to become the next Batman in a hypothetical Batman Beyond game?
That was an idea I had for this story have the Arkham Knight be Damian Wayne. If you want Jason Todd then have the Red Hood be a consultant for the Arkham Knight. Which he tries to help Bruce because he too believed Scarecrow killed Barbara with his explanation for why he was helping them being “I just wanted to do something special to prove you wrong not to get Babs killed!” and like with Nightwing you team up with him to take out Militia HQ’s. For Damian have him play with Batman, have him toy with the Dark Knight, and when he manages to get the drop on him have him leave calling Batman Detective something Ra’s would have called him to get Bruce thinking the Arkham Knight is some disciple of Ra’s. Only to then in their next encounter after a one on one boss fight he escapes with him calling him Bruce. Which would then Shock him into realizing this isn’t just some random League member, but someone who was close to Ra’s and to Talia. Then when he reveals his identity he isn’t called Damian Wayne, but Damian Al Ghul. With Damian in the fight removing Bruce’s masking and when looking at him looks at his reflection realizing that him and Bruce look a like revealing that Damian was forbidden from looking at his reflection. As Ra’s in the Arkham Verse didn’t want Damian to know who his father was so he didn’t know Bruce was his Father, and at the end of the game when Bruce his unmasked it isn’t red hood who helps Bruce, but Damian now with a modified Arkham Knight suit to look more like the Batman Beyond suit. Is this cheese? Oh most definitely, is it better then what we got? You got me I’m just some guy who just thought of something.
That would not make any sense like at all chronologically or otherwise
@@Kainewall elaborate.
@@ParrotPentester Damien Wayne would be about 10 years old at most, and where would he get the money the hire the Millita ( not from the villains ). Also Joker killed tailia not Batman so what reason would he have for killing Batman.
He would be raised to kill criminals if anything
@@Kainewall It's a different universe, the age can be whatever they want to make, Jason got the money from the villains aswell, he didn't earn them. Joker killing talia and then Batman blamed himself for both joker and talia's death, and damian would kill batman because to him he killed his mother, jason was also raised to kill criminals.
Your whole comment doesn't make sense at all.
I don't think Jason's reveal is as bad as people say, sure everyone saw it coming but only because we know Jason Todd comes back as Red Hood and because of the Joker tourturing Jason cutscenes, the player is obviously gonna think that if we're being shown this that means it must have some sort of story relevance, but from Batman's perspective, Jason is DEAD, he has been for years and as such he has no reason to even CONSIDER that he's even connected to the Arkham Knight, plus the fact he was trained by Batman means it's fairly reasonable no info could be found about his identity by Alfred, how do you think no one knows that Bruce Wayne is Batman?
The reveal works well for completing Bruce's arc throughout the story as well as perfectly explaining how he knows so much about his tricks, it's not meant to surprise the player because the Jason kidnapping cutscenes kinda spell it out
Honestly I think a good idea would’ve just been to have Jason reveal his identity to Bruce at ACE Chemicals at the beginning of the game.
Then deep dive into how that affects Bruce throughout the rest of the game (more flashbacks and such) instead of Bruce searching for his identity.
Jason is openly psychologically tormenting and torturing Batman via the fact Bruce knows it’s his fallen son throughout all of it, that’s causing the mass devastation and chaos
With Jason’s identity know by the Batfam as well you could include more interactions between him and the other members, where he challenges them over their loyalty to Batman
There should’ve been an actual fight with Jason in the game as well, where it feels like you’re fighting another Batman. Combining all the elements of before games bosses (Freeze, Deathstroke, etc.) and having Jason basically damn near know your every move
Why would he reveal his identity when that would risk scarecrow betraying him? Having the reveal take place at ace chemicals is completely arbitrary when the Arkham Knight reveal is supposed to serve as the culmination of Batman’s arc in the game.
@@Entertainer12314well the Militia work for the Knight, he created it so I doubt they’d sell him out.
Bro please apply for creative director at rocksteady
Imagine you have a sick combo planned and Jason hits you with the Freeze-Batclaw-Explosion Gel.
This, Jason should have revealed his identity from the start or at least after kidnapping Barbara.
In Batman’s defense, he DID think that Jason was dead, so why would he assume he’s the Knight?
1. The Knight's intimate knowledge of how Batman operates.
2. The Knight calling him Old Man.
3. Having a sample of the Knight's voice. Had he processed it as an intelligent person would have done, then he would've gotten to hear the Knight's voice unaltered.
@@r0bw00d shit that’s actually a really good point… but I mean if a random guy I didn’t recognize called me "little man" I wouldn’t go straight to "holy heck my dad’s back from the grave." But I’m not Batman, and I’m dirt poor so yeah. Batman could’ve tried a little harder.
Batman doesn’t even consider Jason cause he saw a video of him literally getting shot straight in the face
How great would it be if events played out like this..
- Jason reveals his identity maybe 1/4 into the game like you suggest here and pushes Batman mentally with guilt
- Scarecrow uses this to distract Batman for much of the game until the Cloudburst is ready
- Just before the fear toxin is released and Jason has served his purpose, Scarecrow turns on him and takes Jason captive again in the asylum to cause further suffering for Jason and Batman
- The finale of the game is Batman fighting through streets crowded with fear toxin-induced civilians, reverses the toxin with the help of Ivy, and then goes to Arkham
- The last missions in the game is going through the familiar Asylum where it all began fighting off patients crazed by the toxin
- In the end, Batman agrees to reveal his identity in exchange for Jason’s freedom
- Jason sees he was wrong and Batman was always willing to do anything for him. Jason then returns to help Batman.
**In this version, let’s cut the Joker subplot and let Jason/Scarecrow take center stage. Joker was great in this, but we’ve had enough of him by this point.
damian wayne would've made more sense as the arkham knight, thalias death would've made perfect sense as the motivation for his character hating batman, also thalia mentioned that her and bruce spent a night together in metropolis once. jason todd has never been referenced in any of the other arkham games and they made it too obvious that it was jason with the way they marketed the game
part of me wishes that arkham knight was more like kraven from spider-man 2. he comes to gotham to kills all the villains and save batman for last to prove he’s a better hero than him.
I get what you mean, but after Spider-Man 2 I can’t see kraven as anything other than a Pathetic Thrill-junkie, addicted to the adrenaline and dopamine he gets from the hunt, I can’t even properly compare him to other addicts because unlike them he’s not worth saving as his life is so empty and devoid of meaning that his pathetic addiction is the only thing that has meaning in his life. It no wonder he acts like it some sort of glorious act, full of purpose.
Edit: I apologise, I went on a tangent there for a bit, tbh I just needed to get that out of my system.
if they just did a hand to hand combat fight, one like origins deathstroke, it wouldve been great
So should Jason have been revealed as the Arkham Knight before they do the flashbacks at the movie studios?
If they wanted his “reveal” to be a surprise i feel as if they should’ve ditched the flashbacks as a whole
To that "The greatest detective couldnt figure it out but the audience could" No duh, we live in a real world with prior knowledge to Batman and Batman lore, we know Jason Todd came back to life, Batman thought Jason was dead, why would Bruce think his son who "died" came back to life, gained a giant army and trained them to kill him? Put yourself into Bruce's shoes here for a moment.
And that's why it did not work, in the original comic he was dead, we saw Bruce buried the body. In AK, we just have to believe that Bruce accepted Jason is dead just by a vague video Joker had sent ? And Batman of all people, the goddamn Batman would never retrieve the body and give him a proper burial ? See how stupid it is
@@onglanh5329 God you're not very bright. Comics aren't canon. Batman didn't know what abandoned wing it was. He looked through Arkham. We've seen this in multiple instances in AK. Hell, even in asylum the most we possibly got was the drawings in the cells. Do you not pay attention? Do you not even understand how grief works? 🤦
@@GlitchingRobin Uh do you even understand what i was saying dude ?
@@onglanh5329Batman doesn’t know where Jason is. And even if he did, he was (though to be) dead and they could have just tossed his body into the ocean
@@GlitchingRobin good answer, its been a while since i played all the Games. Can u explain what exactly we saw or to be more precise, what exactly do u mean by what you saidy i cannot remeber Batman lookin for jason in the games we played…
I wanted so badly for the Arkham Knight to be a resurrected Amadeus Arkham. All the pieces were there: we see his grave dug up, we know there's a lazarus chamber under Gotham, we know Strange controlled a lot of went on in the asylum and that he worked with Ra's Al Ghul. Amadeus could've been Strange's contingency plan against Batman but once Strange died, he decided "This isn't about Strange, I will punish this city and I will punish Batman for all the monsters he created."
For what would've saved this games image would've been a different name. "Arkhams Ghost: the Red Hood" would've basically explained everything you needed to know. Fans would know what this was about, people not in the know would be intrigued, and Rocksteady wouldn't have kicked themselves trying to pretend the Arkham Knight is someone else.
I was one of the few that was shocked that it ended up being Jason, because I was certain it wouldn’t be *THAT* easy to guess.
I had recently read the court of the owls story, which came out shortly before the game, and was 99% sure AK would be Bruce’s secret twin brother that was running the Court at the end of that story, since a lot of that story matches what we knew about Arkham Knight: knows Batman’s moves, knows who he is, is physically capable of fighting him head-on, etc. Plus, the devs straight up said ITS NOT JASON/RED HOOD and I took them at their word lmao.
Ngl was kind of disappointed they went with the Jason route, but its not like Bruce’s brother was ever set up in the series before either so Jason makes more sense for AK at the end of the day.
I was, however, glad to shocked and surprised my first play through, something that seems to be a unique experience to me lmao. Overall, very glad I read that comic at the time and convinced myself it wasn’t gonna be Jason, made this games story a lot better the first run 😂
One idea I heard that I think was GREAT is that Jason's identity should've been revealed early on. That way the dialogue, the audio tapes, and especially the visions of Jason's torment would've been WAY more impactful, and seemed less random. Plus it would've given Troy Baker more opportunities to flex his acting muscles more. I mean, in the one brief cutscene where Jason's unmasked, I got choked up. His ability to convey emotion is INSANE, and I wish we could've gotten more of that.
What If: The Arkham Knight Had Been James Gordon Jr?
Now that is an interesting and intriguing idea, probably the best I’ve heard apart from him being a resurrected Amadeus Arkham.
One thing I think doesn't get brought up enough is that one of the main problems with Jason's motive is that going to Scarecrow was HIS IDEA. Why is he complaining to Scarecrow about wanting to kill Batman when he knew from the beginning that Scarecrow had no intention of doing so and he said he wanted Scarecrow to help him Batman suffer...
The biggest issue with Jason as the Arkham Knight is that Rocksteady wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted to have this emotional story but rather than reveal his identity early and then delve into it as the game goes on they decide to instead have this dumb mystery. Even after his reveal they have one little conversation and, disappears and has a change of heart offscreen...like bruh.
You'd think that the mystery would at least be interesting but nope...Alfred does all the work offscreen and the mystery itself barely matters in the grand scheme of things.
Really wanted to see what Rocksteady could have done with an original character...such a waste of an awesome design too.
Huh?
Watching an antagonist operate, see the impactful actions taken and understanding why said character is doing this will always be far more engaging than. "Gee I wonder who this guy is"
The Arkham Knight should've been Talia al Ghul. She has the resources, the skills, the history, and the motivation for revenge, all already built in. Plus the armor and voice modulator would hide her identity.
To me and probably a lot of people it was obvious that Jason was the knight was the sense from the movie studios. And rocksteady seemed liek they knew they were making it obvious. So they made joker shoot Jason to make people think he was actually dead and that he's not the knight. They tried to throw off the player but it still made it more obvious.
As someone who played the game that only knew about the Nolan trilogy (I know a lot more than that now lol), I was shocked to find out who Jason was. I thought Joker killed him in the flashbacks too.
They should’ve cut back on the amount of torture scenes for Jason and added one for Tim. That way along with the VR game they’d show Batman directly or indirectly hurting every member of the bat family instead of focusing so much on Jason.
From someone who's first experiences with Batman were the Dark Knight trilogy and the Arkham series, I thought this was a brilliant way to reveal that the Arkham Knight was the second Robin. To someone intimately familiar with Batman, this wasn't a surprise, but it still shocked me as a kid.
When I first experienced Arkham Knight I didn’t know what a Jason Todd was but when I saw the Jason torture hallucinations I instantly knew “oh this Arkham knight guy must be this dude being tortured” the reveal was weak af but my god I love Troy Bakers performance with Jason
I'm angry we didn't get a better boss fight with Jason.
He isn't just some thug or gunman, he's Batman's former sidekick. He's strong and smart. Not quite on Batman's level, but close enough that with support, he could easily give him alot of trouble. Imagine a predator sequence where instead of the militia having anti-cowl cloaking, HE had it and stalked around as you tried to get the drop on eachother with militia roaming around, to gain an advantage for a short, origins deathstroke type 1v1 before any remaining militia close in, and then he retreats to the shadows with a flashbang to blind you.
Imagine him being able to track your cowl when you scan the militia, faster than the guys who can normally track you, and his search radius gets smaller and closer to your position the longer you use it. Hitting max tracking or performing a loud takedown would alert him to your exact location and he'd rush you, making it impossible to get the advantage without a counter landed with VERY tight timing or managing to get out of there on time.
They could have made him a slightly weaker version of the player, with the added militia support to make life harder for you and have him put up the fight we'd expect someone like him to.
I mean, he DOES actually resist an attempt by Batman to get the jump on him, so it would have been nice to have him actually live up to the hype of being a serious threat by making him a challenging and unique fight.
Easily one of my favorite Batman villains who had so much potential and still does. Wish they’d give him one more try
i love these videos so much
Its kinda ironic that the arkham knights story completely revolves around HEAVY abandonment trauma, yet his story was kinda pushed to the side by the writers
ngl I played this game for the first time when I was a lot younger (I'm 14 now so probably when I was like 10) and this "mistery" thing completely worked on me, also because at the start, when The Arkham Knight takes off his helmet I still didn't realise he was Jason. Now that I think about it I find it kinda funny
I think keeping things mostly the same but Getting to play as him in the tutorial and playing out his escape during the events of asylum and having him look to the batwing as it flies away triumphantly and see the hatred in his face could have been a great setup. That and giving him a bigger part post game would have justified the title of the game.
The thing that bothers me the most about the Arkham Knight is that Batman had more than enough information to deduce his identity fairly early on into the story, but had to break character for the sake of the dramatic tension. Worse, anyone familiar with Red Hood which was going to be a big portion of the Batman fanbase to begin with is likewise connecting those dots really quickly.
A simple fix I think would have been for Batman to consider Jason early on, but not have full proof. So instead of going most of the night trying to figure out the Arkham Knight's identity, he develops the Jason hypothesis early on and spends a small period of time after that finding proof.
Additionally, rather than a cliche "I'm going to kill you!" revenge plot, I feel like it would have been more impactful if he was manipulating Batman into "sacrificing" the Bat Family for the sake of the mission, one by one converting them over to his side. First Oracle, faking her death and having her believe that Batman left her to die. Then Robin, having him believe that Batman kept what happened to Oracle a secret from him, and then finally Nightwing, perhaps in a more direct confrontation. This would leave Batman in a position in which he needs to win the Bat Family back over to his side.
This would I think require Jason to have been intending on betraying Scarecrow all along, a secret he shares only with Barbara, Tim, and Dick. His plan could be not to kill Batman or even to turn him over to Scarecrow to let him do it, but to teach Batman how it feels to be betrayed so that he may see the error in how he carries out his mission, and then prove his own superiority by being the one to take down Scarecrow with his intention for it to be permanent by putting lead in him. As Batman slowly wins the individual members of the Bat Family back over to his side, he slowly becomes more privy to Jason's plan and it becomes his goal to stop Jason before he crosses the line, all while having to also figure out a way to stop Scarecrow.
They should have had him be Hush or someone else. Jason Todd fundamentally does not belong in Arkham Batman, he would have been mentioned in Asylum and City, likely with the Joker mocking him. I think it's a function of the devs/writers trying to cram in as much Batman lore and fan service into the series without regard for the established narrative. Although an interesting idea would have been to have nightwing or the current Robin is kidnapped, tortured and brainwashed after city and take the role of the knight.
In a city combat challenge map, if you play as Robin, Joker says something along the lines of "Didn't i kill you already?" And i think he says something about batman needing a sidekick in asylum.
@@VergilDMC Doesn't count at all, if Todd existed in the prior game, he would be explicitly mentioned especially with the Joker's phone call in Arkham City. Paul Dini was actively going for Hush being the villain in collaboration with Scarecrow in Arkham Knight, until he left.
@@jorgizoran4340 So the evidence that disputes your point "doesn't count at all" despite it being made by the developers? Seems you simply can't handle someone disagreeing and backing themselves up with evidence.
@@VergilDMC It was clearly just fan service jokes.
They could have had red hood in side missions. A deadly vigilante taking out the knights forces. Maybe have it come to a head in the movie studios with the other "jokers". The flashes of what happened to Jason could happen maybe b4 a face-down with red hood.
First time i played it, i loved it. I am very ignorant to obvious details, so i never picked up on the old robin being the Arkham Knight. I also didnt know that Batman had multiple Robins.
I game while high a lot
Also youre like the first guy thats covered how hidden details are in audio logs and its made me want to play it again just for those logs
I was heavily invested in this game before release and Rocksteady specifically said that it wasnt Jason Todd. DC even backed them up by saying it was a completely original character made in collaboration between DC and Rocksteady.
The thing is, the Arkham Knight, batman wouldn’t be thinking about one of his once close allies that he saw die, he’d be concerned about his enemies if anything. People that were always against him that wronged him
Even in the original Red Hood story, Jason’s focus was on proving Batman’s methodology wrong. Jason even states that he forgave Bruce for not saving him but was angry that he left Joker alive.
Arkham Knight could have been a criticism on Batman’s methods, morale code and impact. The goal could have been to undermine Batman’s legacy like the Scarecrow did.
I wonder if the Arkham Knight’s identity being Jason was easy to figure out because we know of Jason being alive is something we know of because we know of the story of the red hood.
It’s the story of red hood in general, the average Batman fan probably wouldnt know who he is, but hardcore fans would
People have to remember that we knew it was Jason because we already knew of his character had the red hood not been invented yet this reveal would have landed better imo
It’s such a shame how the Robins etc are more or less non-events in the prior three games. It would have been a lot more satisfying if the seeds were planted for the Jason Todd story in Knight throughout the whole Arkham saga rather than relying on lore from a comic not everybody has read.
And you don't need to even choose. I was largely fine with the mystery aspect. I wasn't big on Batman comics so I had no idea who it was until they revealed Jason Todd. I knew the name but didn't know the story. You can seriously do both and it would turn out fine. A few more cutscenes representing this and it would have been fine. Would not surprise me even if that was the plan but had to cut them for time. Hence the audio logs.
This game is so underrated it’s great and also great content as per usual
14:02 Anyone who knows what the background music is called?
I actually didn’t know who he was, until I got to the movie studio and joker mentioned Jason Todd, it hit me like a bag of bricks
I played BAK like 5 times and there were audio logs? How the hell I've missed that.
It’s not bad that’s he’s Jason, or thats it’s super obvious he’s Jason. It’s that they lied and said “It’s not Jason”
To be fair, Bruce must have thought that the Arkham Knight was Jason but given that he saw him die by the Joker's tape and the fact that the Lazarus pit was destroyed, there was no way he could have been brought back to life
Also i disagree when you say that Jason is kinda right when he says that Batman puts the mission above his family. I mean, when Barbara was kidnapped, his priority shifted to rescuing her even when Alfred said that he could go after Scarecrow and finish his plan early (not to mention he was willing to let Arkham city be destroyed to save Talia first), the reason why he didn't say anything to Robin it's because at that point the cure is in fact more important, sure, bringing Scarecrow to justice is also important but having a Jokerised Batman would be 100x worse
Plus he would probably go after scarecrow in anger and get himself caught or even kill him
i love him in every universe
The moment he says I know how you think, anyone who had seen Under the Red Hood or the comic its based off of knew the Arkham Knight was likely Jason
Let's be honest, Batman is a near century old IP and a great deal of stories has been told with the cape crusader and it’s as though writers want to make the next "iconic moment" in the Batman's mythology. If you're a funny book reader you know Jason Todd dies and comes back as the super villain the Red Hood and it is considered by many to be an iconic moment in Batman's mythology. As an outside observer and consumer of the Bat Media it feels to me that the writers love the idea of the “plot twist” versus me being aware of Batman’s mythology so they want to deliver it in a way where the audience is surprised so they try to obfuscate what the audience knows by saying "it's this new villain called the Arkham Knight" and that's where it feels like the outside world is influencing the fiction.
I liken it to "chasing a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow", it's the impossible venture and the reason why is that the writers don’t decide the next iconic Batman story, the reader does. It's a strange variant of meta-writing where the outside perception of being a writer makes it seem like they want to create the next iconic moment. However, the reality is that everybody has a different opinion on an "Iconic Batman story" and everyone is of a different opinion on which is iconic, it's a reader-to-reader basis. There is no hard rule to gain a story that iconic status. It's merely the result of a story resonating with a wide enough collective of readers that makes it transformative and thus becomes iconic.
An this might be a tangent but it's baffling that the writing pushes Scarecrow to prominence for no reason. Jason is the one with the personal connection to Bruce and yet the writers inject this invasive plot about Scarecrow who disrupts the Red Hood/Batman dynamic. The most tentative connection between Batman and Scarecrow is "Batman uses fear to fight crime". There is no personal tether between the two. It's not like Batman feels as though he failed to save Scarecrow, the legacy of Arkham Scarecrow is he's some idiot who stuffs straw down his pants, straps needles to his fingers and then got mauled by Killer Croc that one time. If they never followed up on him after Arkham Asylum, I doubt outside of some fans of Scarecrow no one is going to be hard-pressed to demand a follow up on his story and I am speaking as someone who likes Scarecrow and thinks he has great villain potential but even this games plot had me laughing at him. He feels like he is in the game to justify bringing back Joker for a 4th game.
Honestly, if the narrative wrote it more that the stress of failing to save Jason caused Batman to start hallucinating Joker, have Batman is just overworking himself, sleepless nights, weeks at work trying to deduce this "Red Hood" and maybe "how did I miss this? How did I let this happen to Jason?" and he starts to see the "ghost of his nemeses" and he is on the verge of a psychological break down that's way sadder and a bit more dramatic then the whole poison blood position plotline. You just have Joker show up for a little bit instead of him stealing the plot from Scarecrow. I don’t even recall if the writers explored Scarecrow having a desire for revenge against Killer Croc for mauling him, which could easily be a side quest where you have to save the large crocodile man from the idiot made of straw who is pumping Croc with so much fear toxin, he’s just a rabid animal that needs to unfortunately be put down.
The main plot could be this new vigilante called the Red Hood arrives in Gotham, he's executing Batman's rogues with help from a partner named Lock-Up (who is a former Arkham officer so he could have been the one who saved Jason in the asylum and they share a similar mindset of vigilante justice and agree to "clean up Gotham") and the plot becomes Bruce needs to deduce who is this Red Hood, why does he use a nom de plume that the Joker once had, how does the Red Hood know so much about Batman, the bat-family and his tactics, how are his safe houses compromised, and explore themes of failed family: Bruce's failings as a mentor and father, Alfred's failings to protect Jason from Bruce's negligence, Jason's role as a brother to Barbara and Dick as caped crusaders and in a way child soldiers in the war on crime.
Instead, because the goal feels like it's focused on the "twist" to circumvent the audience’s expectation of this game, which is clearly the storyline with extra steps, we get the Arkham Knight nonsense. I don't doubt that the twist that it's Jason Todd could surprise somebody, not everyone has read , but given that we live in an age of fast-track information it feels like a cursory glance on a Wikipedia about who Jason Todd is and the audience would be able to easily deduce the Arkham Knight is Jason Todd faster than Batman does in the game.
At the end of this venture the game’s focus on the Arkham Knight narrative feels misguided. Instead of focusing on Jason Todd, the failure of Bruce Wayne, it's instead the writers want to conceive the next iconic moment in the Batman Mythos.
I’m pretty sure it’s more that Batman desperately didn’t want it to be Jason because that would mean he failed him so horribly so he tried looking for every possibility before accepting it was him under the mask. At least that’s my take on it.
I don't even watch/play Batman but now I wanna play some Batman games. Batman is cool. Batman.
Here's my question why didn't the arkham knight (Jason todd) tell the militia to aim for the head specifically the mouth?
One of the funniest things to me personally is in Panessa movie studies, when Batman hallucinates Jason Todd, it is the same voice actor. Obviously, you can see Jason Todd being the knight due to these hallucinations by itself, but the fact rocksteady didn’t go out of its way to just change the VA is hilarious to me
To be fair Troy Backer voices multiple people in the series. In this game he voices both Robins and Two Face. In Origins he voices the Joker.
What I think would have been a better reveal, if it was Timm Drake, and they just hinted at current robin existing throughout the game. He has been put of and almost babied as a sidekick since he became robin. He had to leave anything he had before just to be babied and told to stay at home while bats was fighting crime.
I didn't like how Jason played a role in killing the people of Gotham / trying to destroy the city. If Jason's problem was with Batman only, he should have just focused on that instead of being a terrorist warlord. Seems out of character for Jason to become like this, only to pivot into the Red Hood after his final fight with Batman where he just talked to him. That being said, still one of my favourite games. I play it at least once a year.
I was unfamiliar with the plot on my first play through, and I confess I didn't know who it was lol.
I did have a hunch but wasn't 100% sure
there are audio logs?
Arkham Knight is such a badass looking villain!! Wish he wasn't Jason...
Should've just made him Ras Al Gul's son!
I think they should have revealed early on that this was Jason Todd. His identity was spoiled to me before I played the game since I got onto the Armand wagon a couple years after the series ended (counting kill the Justice League) so going in. I knew this was Jason Todd, but I wasn’t told why he wanted to kill that.
So the whole time I’m wondering “why does he want to kill Batman? If half of Gotham believes Batman killed the Joker? I see the torture went through as Joker keeps telling him Batman is to blame, and it all made sense
The mystery shouldn’t have been “who is the Arkham Knight ?” it should’ve been “Why did Jason become the Arkham Knight?
Damian Wayne should have been the Arkham Knight, imo.
Nah wouldnt work
Naw don’t cook
@@Kainewall Out of the kitchen Pleassee 😂😂
The arkham knight fight needed to be something spectacular. I thought a constant shift between hand to hand, and Jason switching from vantage point to vantage point whilst hiding trying to get the spook on batman. Almost like fighting batman himself, since jason was so well trained, but it was just generic. If that bossfight was good, that alone was enough to transform the quality of his villian arc.
To me the only thing that they should have 100% done is make his boss fight like Deathstroke’s in origins
Or a mix:
1st part stealth - but you have to find Jason, he’s actively hunting you and hiding and you have to hide and set traps
2nd part hand to hand - Deathstroke type fight w/ waves of militia
3rd part vehicle to final hand to hand - but then you’d be out of the compound so idk
But sort of a way to make it call back to Mr Freeze and Deathstroke
“One change could have made him the best villain in ANY VIDEO GAME EVER.”
I’m going to call bullshit on this one.
We should've had Astrid Arkham as the Arkham Knight in the game. Jason Todd will always the Red Hood giving him another persona is just ridiculous
when i first played the game my immediate thought was "oh, it's jason todd" but then i started second guessing myself thinking "no way they keep building up this mystery for it to be that obvious" and then they revealed who it was and i thought "oh... it's jason todd"
Under the Red Hood was better since he wanted Joker dead and made himself Jokerlike Batman to do it. And he still cared for Bruce.
1 aspect that I find unfortunate is that there has never been any interaction between Tim and Jason...
i don’t mind the arkham knight being jason and i think a lot of fans were let down by it and found it so obvious cause we already know jason isn’t dead but batman doesn’t we only know because we’re fans of the story
a big problem with that was the absolute "He'S NOt jASoN TodD, He'S A ToTalLy NeW OriGiNaL ChaRAChtEr" campanign made by WB, and the likely managerial meddling. had there been more flashback with the other batfamily members, some better pacing with that, alfred doing an "sir, everything is accounted for, but to be so close, could it be...?" hell, even just if WB had shut up and let the story stand on it's own, it would have worked. they just needed a bit more time, not even that much, just the one needed to reinsert a couple of the parts cut off into dlc and add the 'unrelated' flashbacks
hell, if you confront the dates, up to the week before WB opening their mouth, the discussion was still on. then it died in a week, with everyone knowing.
I might be the only one who loves arkham knights story to its fullest probably because i was like 7 and was blown away when it was revealed that the arkham knight was a former robin even though it is obvious af but hey i was a dumb kid😂
To be fair to Batman, he never would’ve thought of Jason bc Joker supposedly shot him point blank on video and believed him to be dead
IDGAF THAT IT WASNT A NEW CHARACTER, THEY DID JASON SO GOOD IN ARKHAM KNIGHT LITERALLY ONE OF THE BEST SPEECHES IVE EVER HEARD IN DC
Looking at him this way does make him a more interesting and appropriate character. The comic Jason Todd was a rebuke to Batman's no kill rule. If there was ever a time it was ok for Batman to kill it would be killing Joker in revenge for Robin. But the Arkham Knight is in a world where everyone believes Batman did kill Joker, Batman did get revenge, so why is Todd mad? Didn't make sense until I watched your video. I agree, the information in the audio recordings should have been a bigger part of the game.
Idk I think Arkham knight was a perfect game. Literally perfect. The first 3 games were fantastic. Truly made their own genre and style in a way no other game or studio will even re create but Arkham knight, minus the cloudburst tank section, is absolutely perfect
I feel like the story of the Arkham Knight should have taken a little more priority over Scarecrow in a video game called Batman: the Arkham Knight
The silliest thing to me is that Jason already iconically comes back as the red hood, a costume that already confuses Bruce as to his identity. They basically put a second mask over a mask lol
Theres nothing wrong with me
I didn’t know who the Arkham Knight was because I didn’t know about Jason Todd yet
My hot take, I always wanted Arkham Knight to be Amadeus Arkham resurrected with the Lazarus pits, using a refined Titan formula and Hugo Strange’s studies of Batman and mental experiments to be a “Batman replacement and the true savior of Gotham” like how those sigils described him in Arkham Asylum.
I would’ve had the likes of Quincy Sharp and Hugo Strange subconsciously working for Amadeus to bring him back.
Hell, instead of Ra’s al Ghul being the main player of Arkham City, I would’ve wanted Strange and Sharpe set Arkham City up in North Gotham because they’re trying get to the Lazerus Pit and Talia and the League have to come back to keep them out.
never let bro cook again
Where they messed up…was when everyone said Arkham Knight is Jason Todd…Rocksteady said..”Uhh…no it’s not 😅” then it 100 was.
I REALLY like Jason’s voice in this game, hope we hear more of it
He's a whiny edge lord in this😂
While it’s definitely true that Batman did put a lot of time into figuring out how the Arkham Knight was but at the same time in the Arkham Knight guidebook, and in the game itself , (back where Joker is showing you how Jason died to him ) Batman knows who the Arkham Knight is but he doesn’t believe it since he doesn’t want it to be someone that he longed thought was dead and someone who he treated like a son to him.
That’s makes no sense, no way that’s true
@@Kainewall it actually is true and what part doesn’t make sense?
@@josephdent6825 cause he didn’t know who the Arkham knight was and even after the Jason Todd scene he kept asking Alfred to investigate him. Why would he do that if he already knew? Just to be a dick
@@Kainewall because, to be absolutely sure that it’s anyone but Jason. Look at it like this, would you want someone who you thought was dead for a long time and who you thought of like a son. Be the one who’s actually trying to kill you? You would want to be in denial , and want it to be someone else because this is the person that you don’t want to believe is trying to end you.
@@josephdent6825Sure I guess that could be the case. But that begs the question of how he knew in the first place. The logic just seems very contrived
15:10 this graceson if you will... i'll see myself out
In general, a lot of the antagonists in this game were very underwhelming. For example: Deathstroke. You spend hours taking down checkpoints and watchtowers and disabling bombs only for the final fight with him to end up being a copy and paste of the Cloudburst fight with the Arkham Knight. This game is easily one of my favorites of all time but it was so underwhelming in so many areas.
That audio log proves barbara knew jason was alive and was the knight and didnt say anything after she was saved. Seems like everyone keeps secrets in the bat family😅
It’s either one or two things either she in Arkham universe is a complete hoe and slept with all the robins & deducing it by physically seeing him up close. (the outlets leave little to the imagination.)
Or as Oracle, she may also be in charge of digital resource laundering and found out about him via which smugglers he used etc. (all the resources he used would leave one hell of a Trail.)
Maybe Batman & Alfred knew it was Jason from the start but didn’t want to believe it (they were in denial?)
Then it kind of makes sense?
I honestly feel like Red Hood should have been a side mission kinda like how the expansion side missions were.
9:55 can we just appreciate how dumb this gun is? No one would make this in real life. In reality, he'd just bring a rifle and hold it up to batman rather than a transforming pistol for extra looks.
I knew it was Jason Todd because he said Old Man to Bruce.
How the fuck would Jason know the weak point of his armor if it’s new? He hasn’t worn those plates in the 2-3 games he’s been in since Jason’s death.