The editing right around 45 mins when sneaky asks about overheal, and DL/Sneaky didn't answer was awesome. Subtle sound effect to immediately answer, followed up by rune pages after the ongoing play.
There was Nami mid being a thing. Season 3. They slowly buffed Nami consistently reducing mana costs, increasing range/ projectile speed, and she became a decent cheese mid against low mobility casters because her W would outtrade everyone with ability based damage early, and her scaling was actually decent enough to 1shot squishies on wave + bubble into W with her E on herself. It did not last long. It was patched as soon as it became popular. I remember playing it on 3.12 it was patched on 3.14, her base damage was hit, her AP ratios were lowered and she was given more utility for AP instead, forcing her back to being Draven and Lucian's little fishbich.
Does anyone know if there will be a finals tricast? I’ve been seeing drama around riot chosen co streamers but I don’t know if that means that others can’t. It would suck majorly if I can’t watch the boys for finals
They already don't have the rights to restream. They can only restream normal games in the season. No playoffs, no international events. To avoid legality issues they live view, which means they sync a timer to their game time and the stream can't actually see the game, they have to go and open it up at the same game time to watch it with them. It's pretty dumb they don't let them show the game. They shouldn't be stopping people from doing it in any way IMO. If you're a part of the partner program you should automatically have restreaming rights for every event. It just shows how trash Riot is, especially whoever is in charge of League esports. They can't get people to watch their main stream over restreams because the main stream *IS* less entertaining, and people are sick of their cookie cutter narratives/ casters being forced to fill up every second of airtime with drivel, but no, instead of seeing there are problems with the main stream and trying to make a better product, they remove "the competition" AKA something the community actually enjoys. Pisses me off that they would rather kill off good things and make it hard for people who love League to promote their game instead of own their shortcomings.
Weird of DL to say that gold efficiency is super important for ADC when ADCs seem to get the (in my opinion) the least amount of situational items. Usually they have a fixed build and rarely stray from that build path (except for maybe Collector users). Gold efficiency is probably most important on junglers that have to work on such low gold.
For the gold efficiency thing, I think champion is a 'requirement' to calculate value. Take adcs, Caitlyn vs Ashe. Two high range adcs, but both have unique play styles, trading patterns, scaling, and utilities. Caitlyn is notable for her high ad ratios (all but e) and her low attack speed scaling, while Ashe has fewer high ad scaling and high damage spells, in trade for buffed autos in extended fights (p/q) and utility (all but q). Phantom dancer is a very efficient item with and without passive running, 128.8% and 103.3% "gold efficient" respectively. Yet how often do you see cait building PD? Ashe builds it pretty much any time she can afford to after all. This literally just becomes a problem of play styles. Caitlyn likes AD, because her play style in lane and around team fights is poke them down with "potshots", or your autos loaded with passive, w if possible and rapid fire or collector for accessibility/damage vs Squishies. Usually just q or q-auto trades, which makes asp almost useless. (Why rapid fire is traded for storm razor sometimes). Ashe pokes with W, sure, but if she hits someone she wants to hit them as much as she can, using her slows and kiting capability to just run them down. Her play style lends itself much better to attack speed and move speed, what PD provides, and that's why she's so happy to build it over IE or Collector, etc, where if you saw a cait building PD instead of IE third item you would probably report her.
Well yeah, gold efficiency of items in a vacuum doesn't tell a whole lot, but when you add context (champions / item passives / etc) to it, it becomes more meaningful. I think that's what they were trying to get at but didn't conclude the thought very well. Gold efficiency isn't completely useless, but it is hard to add all of the necessary context to make it a meaningful stat.
If you used training dummies and bought a Kraken Slayer on Cait you would do more damage overall with the PD. Say there was a meatball comp like 4 melee and they're all building HP then you're definitely not trolling building that either. The context is what matters, how easily you can do damage with something in game to other players, and what the item gives you the ability to do physically within the game with your champion against theirs. PD is better efficiency than RFC, but people go RFC because landing autos when you otherwise couldn't on other players makes more of a difference than having the "optimal" stats does in the actual game. Kraken is always more damage technically, but people go galeforce for the movespeed and active so they can hit more, dodge skills, execute people. Void Staff and Deathcap do more damage than any of your other choices as AP, but Zhonyas allows you to survive and get off another rotation, Rylaise allows you to kite and chain your skills, and Shadowflame helps you secure kills on low targets. It's what buying the item physically *does* within the game that matters for the *actual* efficiency of the item and what is better or worse. Like Meteos and Sneaky were saying. Obviously the more damage and efficiency the better, but that doesn't come from the gold cost. It comes from the practicality within the game. When gold efficiency matters is at breakpoints. Junglers could complete an entire item earlier because it was much cheaper, which is better to have at a dragon/herald fight rather than components. At that breakpoint the gold efficiency of the Chempunk Chainsword is better than a mythic because it is much cheaper and you can have it completed by the herald timer more consistently and be stronger by having a completed item, while still being able to buy the mythic of your choice later so you are not necessarily gimping yourself at all. Most jgers would go Divine Sunderer as a mythic as well, so Chempunk Chainsword also soft countered the healing from that item and made it less useful for the enemy. There is only one other viable option to have a faster completed item, which is Chemtank Purifier, but when they got Sunderer you'd be a turd vs them. That's when the breakpoints and timers of the game come in, and it aligned with the situation to be very strong item within specific gamestates that arose consistently in the meta. You only use gold efficiency in a discussion of what is possible, like without kills how consistently can you complete that item before others and how relevant is that to the objective timers or expected gamestate. Not when you're talking about what is a better or worse overall for a champion all of the time. That is useless, because if you're using "relevant stats' and "gold efficiency" as an argument for what is better all of the time then you're assuming the champion is in a vacuum and the game changes nothing.
Thank God this is up! Have been wanting to watch it so badly, but instantly turned it off when I heard Phreak casting, I could watch it on mute, but it's not as fun.
Gold efficiency is a good stat because it gives you a baseline to compare how much you're losing/gaining in stats vs the item's cost. For example, its kind of nutty that DD is gold efficient given the passive is broken. Likewise for the relative stats that black cleaver gives, it might be the better option if the active effect of a similar item (maybe chainsword?) is similarly not crucial to the champ you're playing. It is an especially relevant stat because often times items are either ridiculously efficient or inefficient for what they provide pretty arbitrarily. If riot were to consciously decided stats based on the value of stats (as determined by items that purely give one stat) then gold efficiency wouldn't matter. But riot doesn't balance like that.
It's true though, you can have a 200% gold efficiency item but if the base item that gold efficiency is calculated from (IE long sword for AD, dagger for AS, amp tome for AP) gave piss stats in the first place it doesn't make the item too special, except if it had a good passive to pair with.
I still think sneaky and meteos are trolling about gold efficiency. They are talking about it like people legit use it without context to decide on their buys. Of course it lacks context by itself, that's why it's only used in context. It's only used in tandem with an item's passive/active, like "this item has a better passive for me, but that item is more gold efficient. Are the stats worth more than the passive to me in this case?"
At the beginning is Dlift talking about back in like 2015-16 when Nami toplane was getting thrown around as a pick? I remember watching Dyrus do it but I don't think it was ever considered a "real" pick
Friendly reminder... black cleaver *shreds armor*, not armor penetration. Last i checked; this is enormously helpful for your aphelios and viego lol. Also; most of jaxs damage is still physical; its not like hes corki here lol.
Holy shit that T1 vs JDG game. This is what happens when two teams that are close to each other's level clash man. When was the last time you saw that shit from a western team vs an eastern team? The gap has only widened.
@@Renotsnottor no You can have a 3-0 from teams close to each other Imagine if all games were like game 1 and jdg just barely won all games 3-0 T1 and jdg weren’t that close in level because T1 were getting omega draft diffed the first 3 games and still won 2 of them. Then the second they win draft they absolutely murder jdg
With this gold efficiency Convo they're really missing the obvious middle ground. You are comparing gold efficiency between items that could all go into the build of any given champ. Not just random items. Additionally, it doesn't have to take into account the passive, that's for our discernment. They're both right in that it's not a complete stat, and it's also not the only thing you're considering when buying an item. Edit: DL actually does a good job of displaying that obviously context still matters and it isn't arbitrary.
I could be wrong but Gale force has a good efficiency of 100%, Kraken has 108%, and shieldbow has a measly 74%. So by this standard shieldbow would almost never want to be picked, but the passive is so good on adc that it makes it worth the buy. Which is why I don’t like the idea of gold efficiency and looking at that over other things, the passives and active on these three are too important to not take into consideration over the good efficiency imo.
why is meteos such a cock sometimes. Gold efficiency is definitely something that's considered all the time. lethality builds are the prime example of this -- you're buying items that are gold efficient for an early spike. Even the different specific lethality items that are chosen are a prime example of this as they're always changing -- serpent's fang theoretically is an extremely useful item for it's passive especially into enchanter comps but it has historically been so gold inefficient that it's not worth buying.
Damn kinda miss Bjergsen in this was nice to have him with the boys.
Honestly any other player they bring is fun to have, they just so naturally have chemistry with them, Rush would be funny as fuck
Bjergsen was there with them for DRX vs GEN I think
Kept expecting him to chime in lmao
Thank you editor we love you!
*Affirmative ding noise*
The one and only SnipingHobo
We watch for worlds, but we come here for editor
The editing right around 45 mins when sneaky asks about overheal, and DL/Sneaky didn't answer was awesome. Subtle sound effect to immediately answer, followed up by rune pages after the ongoing play.
What a mechanically impressive series. Just outplays left and right!
My head hurts everytime Sneaky talks about anything math related.
this was so great series. real final happened here. Final is just a formality. gratz to T1.
Yeah, gratz for the second place finish
OMEGALUL
@@koiboy2241 T1 got you with the long con
I look forward to these so much! Great information edits during the games. ❤
I liked the coconut sounds when Herald is headbutting the towers onscreen.
SnipingHobo is the goat
Sneaky actually needs to learn how to formulate arguments rather than just saying “no that’s just objectively troll”
if ur talking about DL's rant about gold efficiency youre wrong, DL actually just needed to shut the fuck up
Idk seems like a pretty good argument to me
No that’s just objectively troll
I love Meteos's point "getting to worlds by playing some sh*t that's not gonna be viable at world's is weird"
There was Nami mid being a thing. Season 3. They slowly buffed Nami consistently reducing mana costs, increasing range/ projectile speed, and she became a decent cheese mid against low mobility casters because her W would outtrade everyone with ability based damage early, and her scaling was actually decent enough to 1shot squishies on wave + bubble into W with her E on herself. It did not last long. It was patched as soon as it became popular. I remember playing it on 3.12 it was patched on 3.14, her base damage was hit, her AP ratios were lowered and she was given more utility for AP instead, forcing her back to being Draven and Lucian's little fishbich.
Despite losing, that Faker Galio was still insane af
BACK TO THE TRI TITLES!!
Tritles*
I love meteos saying to just ff explode nexus now then cutting to the end of the game 😂
Does anyone know if there will be a finals tricast? I’ve been seeing drama around riot chosen co streamers but I don’t know if that means that others can’t. It would suck majorly if I can’t watch the boys for finals
they will do what they are currently doing which is live view
@@quirk4736 nice that’s awesome. Would have sucked if riot barred them from doing it
@@Rockguy42 they kinda did. Streamers can only live view now. Meaning they can’t show the game stream
They already don't have the rights to restream. They can only restream normal games in the season. No playoffs, no international events. To avoid legality issues they live view, which means they sync a timer to their game time and the stream can't actually see the game, they have to go and open it up at the same game time to watch it with them.
It's pretty dumb they don't let them show the game. They shouldn't be stopping people from doing it in any way IMO. If you're a part of the partner program you should automatically have restreaming rights for every event. It just shows how trash Riot is, especially whoever is in charge of League esports. They can't get people to watch their main stream over restreams because the main stream *IS* less entertaining, and people are sick of their cookie cutter narratives/ casters being forced to fill up every second of airtime with drivel, but no, instead of seeing there are problems with the main stream and trying to make a better product, they remove "the competition" AKA something the community actually enjoys. Pisses me off that they would rather kill off good things and make it hard for people who love League to promote their game instead of own their shortcomings.
@@jakemurray4346 oh wow I can never watch live so i never knew that I thought costream/live view were the same. That’s really dumb
editor, just wanted to say. I watch all league games live and also watch these videos too. love the content you add to the tricast
That series went from close to downhill real quick. Great work editor!
Weird of DL to say that gold efficiency is super important for ADC when ADCs seem to get the (in my opinion) the least amount of situational items. Usually they have a fixed build and rarely stray from that build path (except for maybe Collector users). Gold efficiency is probably most important on junglers that have to work on such low gold.
For the gold efficiency thing, I think champion is a 'requirement' to calculate value.
Take adcs, Caitlyn vs Ashe. Two high range adcs, but both have unique play styles, trading patterns, scaling, and utilities.
Caitlyn is notable for her high ad ratios (all but e) and her low attack speed scaling, while Ashe has fewer high ad scaling and high damage spells, in trade for buffed autos in extended fights (p/q) and utility (all but q).
Phantom dancer is a very efficient item with and without passive running, 128.8% and 103.3% "gold efficient" respectively. Yet how often do you see cait building PD? Ashe builds it pretty much any time she can afford to after all.
This literally just becomes a problem of play styles. Caitlyn likes AD, because her play style in lane and around team fights is poke them down with "potshots", or your autos loaded with passive, w if possible and rapid fire or collector for accessibility/damage vs Squishies. Usually just q or q-auto trades, which makes asp almost useless. (Why rapid fire is traded for storm razor sometimes).
Ashe pokes with W, sure, but if she hits someone she wants to hit them as much as she can, using her slows and kiting capability to just run them down. Her play style lends itself much better to attack speed and move speed, what PD provides, and that's why she's so happy to build it over IE or Collector, etc, where if you saw a cait building PD instead of IE third item you would probably report her.
Well yeah, gold efficiency of items in a vacuum doesn't tell a whole lot, but when you add context (champions / item passives / etc) to it, it becomes more meaningful. I think that's what they were trying to get at but didn't conclude the thought very well. Gold efficiency isn't completely useless, but it is hard to add all of the necessary context to make it a meaningful stat.
If you used training dummies and bought a Kraken Slayer on Cait you would do more damage overall with the PD. Say there was a meatball comp like 4 melee and they're all building HP then you're definitely not trolling building that either. The context is what matters, how easily you can do damage with something in game to other players, and what the item gives you the ability to do physically within the game with your champion against theirs.
PD is better efficiency than RFC, but people go RFC because landing autos when you otherwise couldn't on other players makes more of a difference than having the "optimal" stats does in the actual game. Kraken is always more damage technically, but people go galeforce for the movespeed and active so they can hit more, dodge skills, execute people. Void Staff and Deathcap do more damage than any of your other choices as AP, but Zhonyas allows you to survive and get off another rotation, Rylaise allows you to kite and chain your skills, and Shadowflame helps you secure kills on low targets.
It's what buying the item physically *does* within the game that matters for the *actual* efficiency of the item and what is better or worse. Like Meteos and Sneaky were saying. Obviously the more damage and efficiency the better, but that doesn't come from the gold cost. It comes from the practicality within the game. When gold efficiency matters is at breakpoints.
Junglers could complete an entire item earlier because it was much cheaper, which is better to have at a dragon/herald fight rather than components. At that breakpoint the gold efficiency of the Chempunk Chainsword is better than a mythic because it is much cheaper and you can have it completed by the herald timer more consistently and be stronger by having a completed item, while still being able to buy the mythic of your choice later so you are not necessarily gimping yourself at all. Most jgers would go Divine Sunderer as a mythic as well, so Chempunk Chainsword also soft countered the healing from that item and made it less useful for the enemy. There is only one other viable option to have a faster completed item, which is Chemtank Purifier, but when they got Sunderer you'd be a turd vs them. That's when the breakpoints and timers of the game come in, and it aligned with the situation to be very strong item within specific gamestates that arose consistently in the meta.
You only use gold efficiency in a discussion of what is possible, like without kills how consistently can you complete that item before others and how relevant is that to the objective timers or expected gamestate. Not when you're talking about what is a better or worse overall for a champion all of the time. That is useless, because if you're using "relevant stats' and "gold efficiency" as an argument for what is better all of the time then you're assuming the champion is in a vacuum and the game changes nothing.
Meteos is right high elo Ezreals were going chempunk 2nd or 3rd everygame when that item was gold efficient because he just needed the extra stats
Doublelift not understanding the argument about the gold efficiency stat lacking context is the most Doublelift thing I could ever imagine.
Waiting so longgggggg for this
weird how both keria and guma have such low pick rates of the champs they picked yet diffed jdg the fk out
Thank God this is up! Have been wanting to watch it so badly, but instantly turned it off when I heard Phreak casting, I could watch it on mute, but it's not as fun.
Gold efficiency is a good stat because it gives you a baseline to compare how much you're losing/gaining in stats vs the item's cost. For example, its kind of nutty that DD is gold efficient given the passive is broken. Likewise for the relative stats that black cleaver gives, it might be the better option if the active effect of a similar item (maybe chainsword?) is similarly not crucial to the champ you're playing.
It is an especially relevant stat because often times items are either ridiculously efficient or inefficient for what they provide pretty arbitrarily. If riot were to consciously decided stats based on the value of stats (as determined by items that purely give one stat) then gold efficiency wouldn't matter. But riot doesn't balance like that.
The Malphite Ult trick they are talking about at 48:30, I remember that clip but I had no idea it was sneaky or meteos
ty again mr. hobo editor.
FINALLY, ty Mr editor
Making decisions based purely on any one stat is stupid, but to say gold efficiency is a troll stat is ridiculous
Sneaky and Meteos talking about gold efficiency is why you stay in school kids 😂
It's true though, you can have a 200% gold efficiency item but if the base item that gold efficiency is calculated from (IE long sword for AD, dagger for AS, amp tome for AP) gave piss stats in the first place it doesn't make the item too special, except if it had a good passive to pair with.
Oh shit it’s already up
Literally first ranked music was edited in this WHAT THE FUCk! this editor is completely insane!
Rigby explaining coaches is literally LS in a nutshell. Dude knows a ton about the game but can't coach to save his life.
LCK with covid and jet lag is still better then the whole world lol there 4th seed is better then everyone's 1st seed.
Why I'm here 3min after upload? 0 clue but fukkit we ball out
Meteo's malphite joke went unnoticed haha; feelsbad xD
i love the DL : how do u play lucian vs malphite question? lol , i can see different perspective of each pp
I still think sneaky and meteos are trolling about gold efficiency. They are talking about it like people legit use it without context to decide on their buys. Of course it lacks context by itself, that's why it's only used in context. It's only used in tandem with an item's passive/active, like "this item has a better passive for me, but that item is more gold efficient. Are the stats worth more than the passive to me in this case?"
Did anyone see Lucian just E auto the lulu and do 2/3s of her HP???? at 56:50
Thats namis damage actually 🤣
Sneakys laugh during the doublelift mental talk
Less than 2 minutes in and we have a Meteos pun
Based wave control
At the beginning is Dlift talking about back in like 2015-16 when Nami toplane was getting thrown around as a pick? I remember watching Dyrus do it but I don't think it was ever considered a "real" pick
I remember when it was Soraka since she could outlast basically anything, for a while it was weird seeing her on top while surviving gank after gank.
Friendly reminder... black cleaver *shreds armor*, not armor penetration. Last i checked; this is enormously helpful for your aphelios and viego lol. Also; most of jaxs damage is still physical; its not like hes corki here lol.
Well another thing to watch before I sleep yet again
Sneaky being late to his own video, smh
Dude Faker's azir is just a different champion isnt it?! what in the tokyo drift-
Is bjergsen gone for the rest of the games?
Holy shit that T1 vs JDG game. This is what happens when two teams that are close to each other's level clash man. When was the last time you saw that shit from a western team vs an eastern team? The gap has only widened.
Close to each others level would’ve been 3-2 this was a blow out
@@Renotsnottor no
You can have a 3-0 from teams close to each other
Imagine if all games were like game 1 and jdg just barely won all games 3-0
T1 and jdg weren’t that close in level because T1 were getting omega draft diffed the first 3 games and still won 2 of them. Then the second they win draft they absolutely murder jdg
30:7 yea close
@@pullimau8555 I think this guy never know 'close' 😂
Oh no, the Quadrilaterals aren't back :(. Oh well, the triglycerides are fine too xD.
think meteos records from his phone on his desk
With this gold efficiency Convo they're really missing the obvious middle ground. You are comparing gold efficiency between items that could all go into the build of any given champ. Not just random items. Additionally, it doesn't have to take into account the passive, that's for our discernment. They're both right in that it's not a complete stat, and it's also not the only thing you're considering when buying an item.
Edit: DL actually does a good job of displaying that obviously context still matters and it isn't arbitrary.
Around 22:00
I miss the QUAD SQUAD vibes
Why is there a Kai'sa voiceline at 40:21?
It's Sneaky's sub/resub notification for stream. "9 lives taken" for 9 months.
T1 will once again beat JDG this year!
I could be wrong but Gale force has a good efficiency of 100%, Kraken has 108%, and shieldbow has a measly 74%. So by this standard shieldbow would almost never want to be picked, but the passive is so good on adc that it makes it worth the buy. Which is why I don’t like the idea of gold efficiency and looking at that over other things, the passives and active on these three are too important to not take into consideration over the good efficiency imo.
these lads should really watch more LPL and LCK. "Is Ryze a champ" lol
Ran out of words that have quad in it, so had to kick bjerg off this one
why is meteos such a cock sometimes. Gold efficiency is definitely something that's considered all the time. lethality builds are the prime example of this -- you're buying items that are gold efficient for an early spike. Even the different specific lethality items that are chosen are a prime example of this as they're always changing -- serpent's fang theoretically is an extremely useful item for it's passive especially into enchanter comps but it has historically been so gold inefficient that it's not worth buying.
Hey Boyz
nice
It's 2 am and I was about to sleep
Well it’s 6AM here, and we wake and sneaky beeeitch
First?
No west taiwan teams left? LET'S GOOOOO
DL is so toxic lol
Doublelift literally talking out his ass with half of the analysis he gives out lmao.