EM780 Unboxing and Quick Review
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- čas přidán 6. 08. 2024
- Looking for something quick and easy? Check out this small form factor min pc from Minisforum.
Want one yourself? Use this link: s.minisforum.com/Level1techs-...
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Music: "Earth Bound" by Slynk
Edited by Autumn - Věda a technologie
Excellent review as always. Thanks Wendell and L1 team.
Where are the Level1Linux videos?
Soon tm
2 weeks, (C) ButterflyLabs
@@Level1Techs I've been wondering the same... And, for quite a long while, now.
I'd just like to interject for a moment, what you are referring to as level1linux is infact GNU/level1linux...
@@Level1TechsIt'd be worth testing it with the newer AMD kernel power driver things, I have an EM680 and I find I have to have it adjusted slightly (in performance mode) to boost up to the rated max of 4.77ghz - otherwise it maxed out at 3.5ghz ish even on a single thread bursty load and there's a noticable difference in 'lagginess' when it can't reach 4.77ghz, oddly. You'd not think so, but websites like CZcams really benefit from the higher clock speeds on the 6800U platform for some reason. Using Pop 22.04 here, with a mixture of GTKStressTest to monitor CPU speeds/load, and the CPUFreq gnome extension to manage power state. I saw the same behaviour in Manjaro, too.
I don't have that problem on my R5 7600 desktop, which even in powersave mode will burst up to max-PBO on request without a problem - I guess there's obvious differences in the power management expectations etc between the platforms.
For everyone complaining about the price, you don't HAVE to get something this powerful. Look for a mini PC with the Ryzen 5700u. It's older Zen 2 architecture but it still has 8 cores/16 threads and is still plenty for a lot of things. I have one from Beelink being used as a Plex and Minecraft server.
Someone should make a Minecraft block shaped mini-PC 🧊
Yep, other Ryzen 5 and 3 models from various generations are scattered throughout Minis' line-up. Also, 32 GB of DDR5 isn't particularly cheap.
The EM780 is a high-end ultra-small-form-factor desktop PC. Since when was high-end low-cost?? AMD lowers the cost bar but don't expect black magic here. Minis also still has a turn a profit... don't think we're looking at a bunch of bundled bloatware on this like one will find on a bunch of the random Chinese brands on Amazon, Ali Express, etc.
I’ll second this but suggest avoiding the GMKTec M5- I have one of the “upgraded” ones (2x M.2 instead of support for 1 M.2 and 1 SATA SSD; extra cooling fan on top) and the actual CPU cooling/Heatsink assembly is garbage- poorly made and no “copper heat pipes” like they advertise.
wow, these mini pcs are becoming really compelling. very excite!
I like the idea of mini-pcs in the streaming box replacement category with some smaller games or other things run locally.
However, I have trouble seeing much use for them at prices like this one.
There are much cheaper ones. Of course they don't have quite so much power, but still good. The miniaturisation does cost a bit of money.
Can you build a traditional desktop PC with discrete graphics at the same performance level as this? With used parts, absolutely, but new? I doubt it.
This would make for a really nice travel setup where you know you'll have a display onsite.
If it had more storage capacity - say a 2nd M.2 slot or better two that could talk 2280 drives, I could carry the basics for my home LAN with me and not need to worry about VPNs or a bunch of external drives.
As is it could be a portable photo editing/control box that can fit in your camera bag with a PD battery pack and more flexibilty than a laptop.
If they were a bit cheaper they'd make great streaming boxes - more power than a Chromecast/Firestick/Roku and better connectivity. Just connect to a display and go.
AMD has some serious IGPs.
I remember way back in the day I had a small portable-sized 386 with a full-sized ISA card and room for a full-sized 3½" hard drive. That thing was amazing because you could put an actual GPU or network card in it and do so much. And it wasn't "luggable" size, it wasn't much bigger than a reasonable paperback novel. This thing is insane in comparison in that you get good solid graphics, a good solid CPU, and everything else in a volume maybe half what I had. (Wish it had room for a 2280 M.2 instead of 2230 but...)
I hope Minisforum will get better with maintaining their BIOSes , because actually i feel like they just forget about them. When asking by mail for a new version for my Minisforum EliteMini B550 they just gave me version the device got released with. Thats a big bummer. (thinking of issues like logofail and so on... )
It is, while unfortunate, it is good you mention it with a real example.
The manufacturers need to be forced to give consumer information (at least) on their warranty periods including system software.
I agree that this can't be overlooked. No, every single AMD AGESA update doesn't need to require a BIOS update, but some do every now and then. Additionally, memory timings really should be exposed.
These will be great with laptops if they eventually get released with Thunderbolt Share enabled. Looking forward to that supporting 1440p @ 120-144hz. Would love to use a laptop for all my peripherals.
I wonder if this can be modded with a giant passive radiator for some great fanless action :)
I love tiny computing
Bought the beelink 7840hs (ser7) on amazon for $600 with amazon clippable coupon. Its been great so far. Running in performance mode (bios highest wattage setting) using the magnetic power jack. The only downside was any wireless anything would lag and stutter. Wireless keyboard? Registers multiple presses for no reason. Wireless mouse in windows was smooth but boot up a game and the mouse would stutter. Run both wired and the issue disappears. Run both on a other pc and the wireless works great. Both mouse and keyboard have their own wireless dongle. Bought a mini keyboard and used the Beelinks built in bluetooth and it lags/stutters/registers multiple presses too. So its an error with the beelink. No big deal, i just run wired mode. Wifi is a bit weak. Drops out on me. So i started using my phone which is connected to wifi access point as a hotspot, and now it never disconnects (cuz my phone is a out 2 feet from my beelink). Eventually ill run it wired when i buy a switch and cable for this room.
Does ROCm support the 780M?
Lpddr5 requires ECC storage ad has optional ECC communication. Do you know what this implements?
Regarding the whole warranty issue with these mini PCs. To me it doesn't make that much sense to have these higher powered versions, if you need that much power I'd rather go with a mini itx setup where parts are replaceable. Now the less powerful N100 based machines will do pretty much all you need to do and can be had for $130+. At that price you can just get several and if one fails, you replace it with another you have in your spares. Many of the cheaper machines also come with vesa mounting gear to make a low cost AIO where you can either replace the monitor or computer when needed.
Even though my same Type-C charges my phone at 100 watts (even though I don't need more than 25 watts) I don't really like the idea of directly powering a computer because I usually find it a little too loose. However, I understand how it is much more practical than a power supply attachment! Very very nice anyway. There's a kind of counterattack from the desktop PC into what I would say is almost telephone territory: I think there are people who might think: should I buy a new phone or this one here? Nowadays we all have a telephone, but not a computer of this type.
I was looking at these on the website the other day thinking about a cluster using like like people make Pi clusters. Can you make a cluster over PCIe? That would be super dope.
Any plans to test the Minisforum MS-01 Work Station?
Wendell I enjoyed this preview but where are the Linux on the EM780?
Yeah, it's Cute! But, I'm on a minimalist kick lately and run a relatively old Dell Precision SFF 3420--i7-6700 (small enough by my standards). Installed 64Gb DDR4 memory and one NVME-M.2 (linux Mint) and one HDD (Windows 10). It's a internal PSU. It has fairly big fans and I do live in the desert (lots-a-dust) its up on a bookshelf and runs constantly. I use the onboard video. It was a ebay "parts only" computer. Really watching the dollars lately, NO high end stuff here! I mostly watch CZcams videos viewed on my TV and shopping, so not heavy work load.
The same 65w PSU which was insufficient to make the most out of the EM680 model at a pricepoint ( In Europe ) of 300 more than what I paid for a 7840 32/1tb from Aoostar/KingNovy.
Shame because I really like the design of this little thing.
I was kinda excited about this (linus did something with a literal potato) but finding out that there is no physical ethernet port (connected to the pci bus) makes this device not work well with rt-preemt and realtime connection over ethernet (usb isn't realtime) darn
I'm waiting until the 880 pheonix hawk ideally :)
I await the hx200g
was really hoping this was the pc to get for my dad, but somehow the 780 costs close to $1000 in europe and and 680 over here costs more than the 780 costs in the us.. imma pass on this one
Wait I see that in minisforum UK shop before and it is not close to 1000 😮
get used thinkcentre mini for $250 ive used on on my iiving goor pc for last 5 yars
Wish they would go Displayport.
The UM780 has Display Port, so I don't know why this doesn't.
Most people use hdmi thats why. Yes it's inferior but since no one gets educated about it, that's how it is.
@@SplarkszterThen force the education. Make it Displayport and include a little leaflet on why HDMI-forum is bad.
What is that USB-C adapter towards the end that you use? You said it's from the pine project (?). Looking for a small and absolutely reliable USB-C hub with ethernet.
If you google "PINEPHONE Pro USB-C Docking" you should be able to find that exact adapter shown in the video, but i think it came with a pinephone and the one that's sold separately looks a bit different and i don't know if its the same thing.
my ddr5 booted like right up first time. like 20 seconds. i wonder if im giving up performance
I wish there was sriov on these 780m as memory is coming from shared mem.
At what point do they need to rename themselves to Microsforum?
I want to replace my 9 year old Gigabyte Brix with this. That was probably the smallest machine on the market back then, as this is probably half the size or smaller.
I'm wondering... Is it possible yet to buy a good external display and a mini PC, and end up with a relatively passable mobile desktop setup?
A bit of two sided tape, a portable keyboard and mouse...??
Well I prefer a proper monitor just for the screen size and vesa mount such a small PC to the back of the monitor. Use it in the local library on hot days. But you can buy mobile displays that can run of the power from the mini pc if it has the proper USB4 port with power delivery. That said, you end up with a similar setup to having a laptop, but you'll have several devices and cabling to lug around. If you get a good external display it's also not going to be cheap. Just how portable does it need to be ? My setup was under $300 and includes a N100 based mini pc (that alone was just over $130 shipped), vesa mounted to the cheapest 24" monitor (about $70) and a wireless mouse/keyboard combo and mouse pad (paid maybe $30). For me it makes SUCH a difference using a decently sized display compared to small laptop or portable displays and is a lot cheaper, too. Unless you need AAA gaming N100 based mini PCs work just fine.
I wish @AMD or manufacturers would release more Ryzen and Epyc Embedded products for the consumer market. I'd really like to be able to buy a few low power (sub 35 watt) passively cooled systems to use in a small Proxmox or Kubernetes HA cluser. Perhaps, an even lower power (single or teen digit) system for a home firewall/router appliance with Pf or OPNsense would be nice. This screaming little beast is too LOUD and power-hungry for that sort of application. Sure there are industrial PCs out there, but those companies only sell to industrial customers.
AMD is absolutely KILLING it with the proliferation of these mini/tiny PCs.
I've replaced my desktop with a mini PC.
My 10 year old Mac Mini has been replaced by a mini PC.
Tiny human #1 runs an 8th gen Intel NUC (just re-using what I already have).
It is very possible that these mini PCs, strewn throughout the house, might end up being my distributed mini compute cluster because of how powerful they are and how powerful they've become.
(32 GB of RAM is a tad on the low side for me, but it can still do quite a lot.)
Okay, I bought one.
It should be much smaller and as big as an usb stick or an Amazon stick. Using 5 watts. No cords necessary and no hdmi cable. Directly plugged into hdmi port.
A PC in the hand is worth two in the box?
Any time I see small PCs like this, I am reminded of the Intel compute stick.
I really hope someone brings back a form factor like this. It's so versatile and nowadays CPUs are so efficient in terms of thermals and power, I bet it would work pretty well!
Just posted a similar comment under his minisforum minipc stick thingy.. The one running off poe.
Now that's super choot.
Don't get me wrong, it's delightfully tiny, modern, and powerful, but it's also ultimately just another mini PC. With its high price point and quirky dongle setup, it doesn't appear to be one that I recommend anyone purchase. I know this channel has to make a dime; I hope it can find ways to do it that don't undermine the otherwise excellent knowledge and advice normally shared.
Are they trying to blind people with a bios like that?
Curious if anyone has gotten AMD ROCm working on the integrated 780m GPU? AMD claims 32 TOPs of performance for this platform.
Would the 64 GB version of this make sense for running LLMs that are too big for typical consumer GPUs? Memory bandwidth wouldn't compare to a GPU, but is it adequate for hobby use?
Wendell, when will you be doing a review of the MS-01? (I don't think I've missed it).
I sadly feel like the actual HDMI cables might weight more and flop this little box around.
First nano form factor with 7945X3D gets all of my money.
Theoretically 45w X3D is possible with these mini pc cooling solutions but no real world use cases, unless they all utilise Oculink. Also X3D is premium chip, mini pc caters to the less beefy mobile platform. Your best luck goes with Asrock DeskMeet
yeah you will LOVE those 2 GPU cores...
@@LiLBitsDK more like 16cores with 3Dcache rather than 8cores (like 7950X3D due to monolithic design (mobile) rather than chiplet (desktop).
@@bamtodayyou DID notice I wrote GPU cores... or did you completely ignore that? CPU cores != GPU cores...
@@LiLBitsDK sorry I don't care about the GPU cores, I was correcting what I would LOVE as you stated.
Oh man it’d be cool if that Ethernet to USB could accept PoE and power the unit.
Before some one corrects me, I know base PoE isn’t sufficient. The highest power spec of PoE could technically do it though.
I purchased a mini PC mostly 'cause of Wendell.
How are you finding it?
@@boneappletee6416 Excellent for the price, it transforms any TV into a full fledged PC, you can carry it around in any bag, and take your music library with you everywhere etc.
What is the purpose of making computers as small as possible? Wouldn't I have been better off if all those routers and switches had been standard mini--ITX? Would my life improve if I could get a gaming PC down to the size of a deck of cards?
For my use case I really like these super small PC's in my observatory. In the past I had to run a wiring loom containing lots of serial cables and USB cables back to a desktop in the control room, under a wire channel on the observatory floor which is always a trip hazard. Now all I have to do is attach the PC to the telescope and run short cables to the peripherals. Now all I need is just an ethernet run to the control room. I know it's a niche use case but it is mine. I just wish this unit was quite a bit cheaper.
@@vincei4252: I like small computers too. But I'm questioning these ultrasmalls. Particularly when they have outputs on all four sides so that in reality you end up with cables going in every direction, when an ITX box would have them all coming out from behind.
@@jeschinstad Ah, gotcha. I dunno man. I think connectivity being on one side is way more manageable as opposed to having this octopus / spider thing in the middle of your desk.
It might, so long as you have a massive group of friends who competively play really old titles against each other in person, and need a computer that you can fit in a pocket in case you ever bump into each other and really need to whip it out. Of course, you'd still need to lug around a monitor... Or, you could just game on a laptop. So.... Probably not.
@@jeschinstadif you question it, then it isn't for you... simple... buy one of the MANY other options that are much larger...
More powerful than a $2000 MacBook
Ok, but can it play crysis?
Not interested in those small computers that use fans. I want a Passive cooled box as it lasts forever.
"these are all AMD" 8)
It's kinda spendy :(
Vega 8 iGPU is not better than xe graphics. Dont do it bro 🫠
Vega 8? This has a 780M
I can’t wait for competent desktop computers to be the size of phones, just because. These systems are ridiculous.
Does this product come with malware pre-installed or do I have to be promiscuous on the Internet? Asking for a friend. 8o)
Here's a thing we sell that you can't buy.
all of these computers are kinda cheating since the powerbrick is outside
yeah all those laptops cheat too right? and your phone cheats as well?
Nowadays you can get a really compact 65W USB-C charger honestly, I've had the Anker Nano 715 65W or whatnot for a year and a half and it's tiny. When you're invested in USB-C PD GaN everywhere, it's more like a feature, not a bug!
I REALLY wish Minisforum (and ALL other manufacturers) would STOP with the "series" this and that NONSENSE naming marketing BS..... STOP paying people to make it MORE convoluted and difficult for customers/consumers to actually find what they're shopping for i.e. Intel vs AMD, by I/O ports, by form factor, aka actually pertinent data points. I don't give a !!@#$#!! what stupid planetary-body naming convention your marketing department pulled out of Uranus. /rant
You always act like this is so remarkable, as if it's the first, the only, the Alpha. It's just another mini computer. It's okay. They don't do a BAD job on their systems. And unboxing videos are old. Very old. Like with laptops that you can take apart old.
Sorry, but you gave my mind too much credit.